Werewolf-Vampire hybrid and looks [Archive] - Wizards Community

Werewolf-Vampire hybrid and looks [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Battousai727
10-04-06, 04:14 PM First off, is the combo of Werewolf/Vampire above even possible? With both stats buff, it makes for a pretty powerful character. It makes sense that it would work, but the look i guess would be kinda funny.

my secend question has to do with disguise self or a spell like it. Lets say a caster changes ur appearence magically back to to your original look (but not ridding u of yours vampire/werewolf abilities) and then puts some kind of permanancy spell on you. will you stay in your original look no mattter what, or would changing form b/c of being a werewlof negate the spell?

(sry if this is confusing :) )
club2bash
10-04-06, 09:56 PM The spell would still be in effect.
Battousai727
10-05-06, 04:01 PM The spell would still be in effect.

so technically thats means id always be in human form, but my stat buffs for being a werewolf will depend on what for im truely supposed to be in?
Branto
10-05-06, 10:53 PM Werewolf and Vampire, eh? Well, I guess it depends on a few things. First off, can you have an undead lycanthrope? Secondly, can magical diseases stack? Thirdly, would you HAVE any class levels left available after the adjustments from being both? :P
TheAnthroDM
10-05-06, 11:48 PM Werewolf/Vampire hybrids make the greatest character concepts, sadly it's best left to villians, why?
Let's break it down
Werewolf(Afflicted) + 4 ECL
Werewolf(Natural) + 5 ECL
Werewolf Lord(Afflicted) + 8 ECL
Werewolf Lord(Natural) + 9 ECL
Vampire +8 ECL

Best thing you can hope for is an ECL of +12 and that's with uncontroled lycanthropy.
You might could pull this off in an epic campaign(UA, LA destruction for win)

On the otherhand the CR is alot lower
Vampires only have a +2 addition CR, tack it onto a werewolf villian and you've got the PCs and Enemy
Fithero
10-06-06, 06:05 AM the whole idea of being this awsome/horrific creature, yet having a spell cast over you is kinda cheesed dont you think?

Your a were wolf to start with, then a vampire on top of that, so if i was the dm, id make it that your stuck in hybrid form... your fur would probably be a lighter shade, most likely grey... you'd have really pronounced fangs and your claws would be more elongated (not the usual werewolf looking ones.)

I dunno, your this powerful creature, whose main drawback is that it probably wouldnt fit in anywhere. To simply take that away completly seems to take away something of the character, where as a hooded coat would do just aswell and would add a certain amount of mystique to the character.

Hope this helps.

Peace
Battousai727
10-06-06, 05:33 PM the whole idea of being this awsome/horrific creature, yet having a spell cast over you is kinda cheesed dont you think?

Your a were wolf to start with, then a vampire on top of that, so if i was the dm, id make it that your stuck in hybrid form... your fur would probably be a lighter shade, most likely grey... you'd have really pronounced fangs and your claws would be more elongated (not the usual werewolf looking ones.)

I dunno, your this powerful creature, whose main drawback is that it probably wouldnt fit in anywhere. To simply take that away completly seems to take away something of the character, where as a hooded coat would do just aswell and would add a certain amount of mystique to the character.

Hope this helps.

Peace

u make a good point, but since i have a spellcaster and cleric in my group, i can reverse almost any effect i have whenever i want. i had an image of this regular guys, but only those close to him know what he really is. It kinda more of a decietful/secret theme. Those who anger the hybird would be in for a complete and total shock, and would be deeply regret crossing paths with this kind of monster.

On the topic of ECL, i understand vampire and its ability scores and ECL completely. IM a bit confused on how the ECL for werewolf and werewolf lord are calculated (specefically for Werewolf lord, since werewolfs are kind weak) Can some1 explain how those ECL's were calculated and what ability score come with both types of werewolf? (the monster manual ast for regular werewolf Str +2, Dex and Con+4, but those seem to be too low for a werewolf lord)
Agent Rasp
10-25-06, 10:48 PM To answer the original question, yes, I think it is technically possible to create a werewolf/vampire hybrid. You'd have to start out as the were, though, because undead creatures are not eligible to take the Lycanthrope template (giants and humanoids only).

For the second question: if the spell is an illusion, then it would remain in effect, but under the Rules As Written (at least in the Core books and SRD), there are no illusions that you can cast on another creature and then augment with permanency, so this is a moot point.

If the spell in question is a transmutation other than enlarge person, reduce person, or (greater) magic fang, the RAW again don't allow it to be made permanent on another creature. Furthermore, if the spell was polymorph or from the related spell family -alter self, baleful polymorph, etc- then a lycanthrope (as a shapechanger) can simply return to its natural form as a standard action anyway.

Also keep in mind that a lycanthrope doesn't get its damage reduction, bite attack, claw attacks, or any stat bonuses beyond +2 Wisdom unless it assumes its animal or hybrid forms. So being forced into a humanoid form would make this theoretical crossbreed a vampire with a couple of extra (and largely non-combat) talents and Hit Dice until it changed shape.

* * * * *

You get a lycanthrope's ECL by adding the animal form's Hit Dice to the base creature's, then applying the appropriate +2 or +3 Level Adjustment. So for werewolves and werewolf lords:

Werewolf ECL = wolf HD (2d8) + LA = +4 (afflicted) or +5 (natural).

Werewolf Lord ECL = dire wolf HD (6d8) + LA = +8 (afflicted) or +9 (natural).

Same numbers as TheAnthroDM gave earlier. As for stat bonuses, the Werewolf Lord Fighter 10 described in the SRD gets the following ability increases from his template:

In all forms, +6d8 HD and Fort +5, Ref +5, Will +5 (same as dire wolf);
In all forms, +2 Wisdom (same as all lycanthropes);
In animal or hybrid forms only, +14 Str (+6 bonus, +8 due to Large size increase), +4 Dex (+6 bonus, -2 due to size increase), +6 Con (+2 bonus, +4 due to size increase), -1 to AC, -1 to attack rolls, +2 to natural armor.

He also gets a +2 Strength bonus from his gauntlets of ogre power, at least in human form, which throws my numbers off ever so slightly. If he's allowed to wear the gauntlets in his other forms (assuming the "magic items resize to fit" rationalization), use the above bonus for Strength. Otherwise, he ditches the gauntlets (along with his chain shirt and shield) and gets a +18 Strength bonus in animal/hybrid form instead of +16.

* * * * *

Finally, for those who want to play a "were-vamp" but are put off by the vampire's massive +8 LA, I suggest the half-vampire template in Libris Mortis. You don't get the powers of a full vampire, but you avoid or ameliorate its many weakness, and only get a +2 LA in the bargain. Half-vampire werewolf at +6 or +7 ECL beats the heck out of full vampire werewolf at +12 or +13 ECL.
mossivo1986
10-26-06, 12:28 AM Werewolf/Vampire hybrids make the greatest character concepts, sadly it's best left to villians, why?
Let's break it down
Werewolf(Afflicted) + 4 ECL
Werewolf(Natural) + 5 ECL
Werewolf Lord(Afflicted) + 8 ECL
Werewolf Lord(Natural) + 9 ECL
Vampire +8 ECL

Best thing you can hope for is an ECL of +12 and that's with uncontroled lycanthropy.
You might could pull this off in an epic campaign(UA, LA destruction for win)

On the otherhand the CR is alot lower
Vampires only have a +2 addition CR, tack it onto a werewolf villian and you've got the PCs and Enemy

If he were smart he'd do a Half vampire- which is out of lebris mortis. I don't know anything about werewolves, but that would reduce the cost of the LE, because a half vamp has an le of +2. Or he could bloodline the werewolf or the Vamp, however I don't like bloodlines. Atleast major ones.
Telemon_Ajax
10-26-06, 07:05 PM Half Vampire Shifter might work, if your looking for low ECL
Mooncalf
10-29-06, 06:13 PM Just get a Hat of Disguise. Allows you to disguise yourself with illusions at will. So you'll be the huge, fanged, muscle-bound tank... only you look like an unassuming gnome. And when the barbarian picks on you, you'll rip him to shreds!

And everyone who sees this will think, "Sacred excrement! You do _not_ mess with that gnome!"

And when the guards arrive, you just say, "Well, he started it." Or you duck into an alley and walk away as an elf.

The Hat is your friend, for only 1800 gp too.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Battousai727 10-04-06, 04:14 PM	First off, is the combo of Werewolf/Vampire above even possible? With both stats buff, it makes for a pretty powerful character. It makes sense that it would work, but the look i guess would be kinda funny. my secend question has to do with disguise self or a spell like it. Lets say a caster changes ur appearence magically back to to your original look (but not ridding u of yours vampire/werewolf abilities) and then puts some kind of permanancy spell on you. will you stay in your original look no mattter what, or would changing form b/c of being a werewlof negate the spell? (sry if this is confusing :) )
club2bash 10-04-06, 09:56 PM	The spell would still be in effect.
Battousai727 10-05-06, 04:01 PM	The spell would still be in effect. so technically thats means id always be in human form, but my stat buffs for being a werewolf will depend on what for im truely supposed to be in?
Branto 10-05-06, 10:53 PM	Werewolf and Vampire, eh? Well, I guess it depends on a few things. First off, can you have an undead lycanthrope? Secondly, can magical diseases stack? Thirdly, would you HAVE any class levels left available after the adjustments from being both? :P
TheAnthroDM 10-05-06, 11:48 PM	Werewolf/Vampire hybrids make the greatest character concepts, sadly it's best left to villians, why? Let's break it down Werewolf(Afflicted) + 4 ECL Werewolf(Natural) + 5 ECL Werewolf Lord(Afflicted) + 8 ECL Werewolf Lord(Natural) + 9 ECL Vampire +8 ECL Best thing you can hope for is an ECL of +12 and that's with uncontroled lycanthropy. You might could pull this off in an epic campaign(UA, LA destruction for win) On the otherhand the CR is alot lower Vampires only have a +2 addition CR, tack it onto a werewolf villian and you've got the PCs and Enemy
Fithero 10-06-06, 06:05 AM	the whole idea of being this awsome/horrific creature, yet having a spell cast over you is kinda cheesed dont you think? Your a were wolf to start with, then a vampire on top of that, so if i was the dm, id make it that your stuck in hybrid form... your fur would probably be a lighter shade, most likely grey... you'd have really pronounced fangs and your claws would be more elongated (not the usual werewolf looking ones.) I dunno, your this powerful creature, whose main drawback is that it probably wouldnt fit in anywhere. To simply take that away completly seems to take away something of the character, where as a hooded coat would do just aswell and would add a certain amount of mystique to the character. Hope this helps. Peace
Battousai727 10-06-06, 05:33 PM	the whole idea of being this awsome/horrific creature, yet having a spell cast over you is kinda cheesed dont you think? Your a were wolf to start with, then a vampire on top of that, so if i was the dm, id make it that your stuck in hybrid form... your fur would probably be a lighter shade, most likely grey... you'd have really pronounced fangs and your claws would be more elongated (not the usual werewolf looking ones.) I dunno, your this powerful creature, whose main drawback is that it probably wouldnt fit in anywhere. To simply take that away completly seems to take away something of the character, where as a hooded coat would do just aswell and would add a certain amount of mystique to the character. Hope this helps. Peace u make a good point, but since i have a spellcaster and cleric in my group, i can reverse almost any effect i have whenever i want. i had an image of this regular guys, but only those close to him know what he really is. It kinda more of a decietful/secret theme. Those who anger the hybird would be in for a complete and total shock, and would be deeply regret crossing paths with this kind of monster. On the topic of ECL, i understand vampire and its ability scores and ECL completely. IM a bit confused on how the ECL for werewolf and werewolf lord are calculated (specefically for Werewolf lord, since werewolfs are kind weak) Can some1 explain how those ECL's were calculated and what ability score come with both types of werewolf? (the monster manual ast for regular werewolf Str +2, Dex and Con+4, but those seem to be too low for a werewolf lord)
Agent Rasp 10-25-06, 10:48 PM	To answer the original question, yes, I think it is technically possible to create a werewolf/vampire hybrid. You'd have to start out as the were, though, because undead creatures are not eligible to take the Lycanthrope template (giants and humanoids only). For the second question: if the spell is an illusion, then it would remain in effect, but under the Rules As Written (at least in the Core books and SRD), there are no illusions that you can cast on another creature and then augment with permanency, so this is a moot point. If the spell in question is a transmutation other than enlarge person, reduce person, or (greater) magic fang, the RAW again don't allow it to be made permanent on another creature. Furthermore, if the spell was polymorph or from the related spell family -alter self, baleful polymorph, etc- then a lycanthrope (as a shapechanger) can simply return to its natural form as a standard action anyway. Also keep in mind that a lycanthrope doesn't get its damage reduction, bite attack, claw attacks, or any stat bonuses beyond +2 Wisdom unless it assumes its animal or hybrid forms. So being forced into a humanoid form would make this theoretical crossbreed a vampire with a couple of extra (and largely non-combat) talents and Hit Dice until it changed shape. * * * * * You get a lycanthrope's ECL by adding the animal form's Hit Dice to the base creature's, then applying the appropriate +2 or +3 Level Adjustment. So for werewolves and werewolf lords: Werewolf ECL = wolf HD (2d8) + LA = +4 (afflicted) or +5 (natural). Werewolf Lord ECL = dire wolf HD (6d8) + LA = +8 (afflicted) or +9 (natural). Same numbers as TheAnthroDM gave earlier. As for stat bonuses, the Werewolf Lord Fighter 10 described in the SRD gets the following ability increases from his template: In all forms, +6d8 HD and Fort +5, Ref +5, Will +5 (same as dire wolf); In all forms, +2 Wisdom (same as all lycanthropes); In animal or hybrid forms only, +14 Str (+6 bonus, +8 due to Large size increase), +4 Dex (+6 bonus, -2 due to size increase), +6 Con (+2 bonus, +4 due to size increase), -1 to AC, -1 to attack rolls, +2 to natural armor. He also gets a +2 Strength bonus from his gauntlets of ogre power, at least in human form, which throws my numbers off ever so slightly. If he's allowed to wear the gauntlets in his other forms (assuming the "magic items resize to fit" rationalization), use the above bonus for Strength. Otherwise, he ditches the gauntlets (along with his chain shirt and shield) and gets a +18 Strength bonus in animal/hybrid form instead of +16. * * * * * Finally, for those who want to play a "were-vamp" but are put off by the vampire's massive +8 LA, I suggest the half-vampire template in Libris Mortis. You don't get the powers of a full vampire, but you avoid or ameliorate its many weakness, and only get a +2 LA in the bargain. Half-vampire werewolf at +6 or +7 ECL beats the heck out of full vampire werewolf at +12 or +13 ECL.
mossivo1986 10-26-06, 12:28 AM	Werewolf/Vampire hybrids make the greatest character concepts, sadly it's best left to villians, why? Let's break it down Werewolf(Afflicted) + 4 ECL Werewolf(Natural) + 5 ECL Werewolf Lord(Afflicted) + 8 ECL Werewolf Lord(Natural) + 9 ECL Vampire +8 ECL Best thing you can hope for is an ECL of +12 and that's with uncontroled lycanthropy. You might could pull this off in an epic campaign(UA, LA destruction for win) On the otherhand the CR is alot lower Vampires only have a +2 addition CR, tack it onto a werewolf villian and you've got the PCs and Enemy If he were smart he'd do a Half vampire- which is out of lebris mortis. I don't know anything about werewolves, but that would reduce the cost of the LE, because a half vamp has an le of +2. Or he could bloodline the werewolf or the Vamp, however I don't like bloodlines. Atleast major ones.
Telemon_Ajax 10-26-06, 07:05 PM	Half Vampire Shifter might work, if your looking for low ECL
Mooncalf 10-29-06, 06:13 PM	Just get a Hat of Disguise. Allows you to disguise yourself with illusions at will. So you'll be the huge, fanged, muscle-bound tank... only you look like an unassuming gnome. And when the barbarian picks on you, you'll rip him to shreds! And everyone who sees this will think, "Sacred excrement! You do _not_ mess with that gnome!" And when the guards arrive, you just say, "Well, he started it." Or you duck into an alley and walk away as an elf. The Hat is your friend, for only 1800 gp too.