Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Ahoyanende 06-30-05, 07:10 PM	My original intention in forming this post is to ask everybody what their lvl 20 (or any high level) character is doing or is capable of doing, because I fear my character is lacking motivation and goals.... But I also want to ask you all if my method in ruling the 9 layers of hell really works...and if it doesn't work, could you please help me so I can rule it? Dnd is pretty complicated... I tend to have errors in my logic in such plans. Imagine you are an evil lvl 20 wizard. You go to a secluded area where you cannot be bothered by anybody... You cast gate and summon Asmodeus, the lord of the 9th layer of Hell; aka ruler of all hell. He is a single summoned character (His HD is like 37), and because his HD is not equal or greater than twice your caster level (caster lvl = 20) you can control him. Control him to take one of your spells willingly, so that spell resistance and his high will saving ability won't apply. Cast mindrape (the spell lets you modify opinions, alignments, and memories..it's in Book of Vile Darkness). I don't want to get too much in depth of what I'd make him believe... but hell (no pun intended), wouldn't you be able to make him believe you are his partner in ruling hell? Make him believe that he would never harm you? Wouldn't you be able to make Asmodeus, ruler of devils, wear a headband of flowers (daisys would look nice on Asmodeus...or maybe sakura), change his alignment to neutral good, and make him want to frollick through enchanted forests singing, "zippety doo daa..zippety day..what a wonderful feeling..what a wonderful day"? Now let's say that works, I suppose you might be thinking a series of questions: 1. "Well.. how do you get to hell in the first place?" Plane shift will work ok. You can also try the River of Styx or that stupid long magical stairway that takes you to different places in the outside planes... and there are other ways. 2. "well.. you get to hell.. but how do you survive in the harsh terrain?" Attune Form (it's a spell that's in the manual of planes) will negate all harmful affects of another plane...and not all layers of hell have dangerous terrain. 3. "well.. why the hell would you want to rule hell?" You know.. that's a good question. I just want to do it to prove that I am really an evil character. It's not like I'll send an army of devils out to destroy the Material Plane... that'd be stupid to leave Hell empty...who knows who could attack hell before I come back. 4. "What makes you think all the devils wont attack you right when you step into their territory..?" Uhhh... Devils are LAWFUL. I'm going to hell...I'm not going into the Abyss...haha.. Demons will kill yah on the spot. Anything Asmodeus says in hell goes. You can have Asmodeus inform the devils to not attack you. 5. "Where would you live?" Well..Asmodeus seems like a nice reasonable guy. I wonder if he can get me a reservation to a hotel in Malagard in Maladomini in the 7th layer of hell. It's beautiful I hear. (er read in Manual of the planes). So yall.. I would appreciate constructive criticism. If it works that'd be awesome. 2 spells... and it should only take a couple minutes to do! How do ya like that? It's faster than any "Instant Mix" foods!
ShiverTheBard 07-01-05, 03:32 AM	Can my level 20 character rule hell? Yes. After i'm done destroying the multiverse and reshaping it in my image with my 40+ Divine Ranks. God some Psionic Powers combo so well.
Sephanti 07-01-05, 09:32 AM	From the srd Deities and unique beings are under no compulsion to come through the gate, so yeah, i'm thinking asmodeus is pretty unique.
The_Yellow_Dart_Swinger 07-01-05, 12:30 PM	And disregarding the rules about what you can gate. How would you combat the millions of devils? What about the other rulers of hell? How would you be able to fight 4 or 5 Pit Fiends if they came after you if the other rulers sent them? Your under the assumption that you will control all the layers of hell which is wrong. Asmodeus only controls the bottom portion of hell. You would have the other 'princes' to deal with. Then just because devils are lawful evil doesn't mean that they won't attack you. They might try to assasinate you, or they might pull some rule thing like "It was stated in the contract that we serve Asmodeus and not some weak human." I would say for a mere 20th level wizard that it would be impossible. After all if it was possible someone would have already done it.
Ahoyanende 07-01-05, 04:44 PM	whoa whoa whoa. Anything's possible right? It's just so simple (even though it takes lvl 9 spells)..people don't realize their full potential. You know in high school my BASIC computer programmin teacher taught us, without knowing he taught us, how to instantly destroy somebody's PC with a program. He didn't say that you can apply what he told you to destroy a computer.. but you could. None of the other students realized it until I told uhm. Although what I said sounds a lil non sequitor, I'm saying.. You can use something BASIC... but the results will be HUGEEEEEEEEEE...I'm talkin Gi-nourmous. First: I thought unique beings were deities and creatures like the tarassque (the fact that there is only 1 in the universe). Asmodeus is a baatezu. There are a lot of those baatezu (maybe millions of them). I thought Asmodeus is just the one that got super powerful. I guess DM can say he's unique, huh? Second: Asmodeus is the Lord of the 9th layer... but he is the..and I quote from Book of Vile Darkness .."OVER LORD OF ALL DUKES OF HELL". He "commands all devilkind and reigns as the undisputed master of the 9 hells." If Asmodeus commands all devils to not attack me (and I'm sure he wont need any contract...), they won't attack... unless they want to feel the wrath of Asmodeus. Devils are lawful evil, so they'll only deny Asmodeus's request if they feel they are more powerful, which they aren't..judging by the CR and description. 3rd: It's perfectly fine for me if there are attempts of assassination. I think I smell a good adventure in that! But those devils will probably get sweaty hands or at least butterflies in their stomachs if I manage to escape with Teleport, dimension door, plane shift....Did you know pit fiends can't cast see invisibility? Also... I can do what I did with Asmodeus, the strongest of Devils, with all the princes of hell. - A mindrape a day, keeps the devils away... hehehe. ok that was corney. sorry. 4th: Yeah.. another lawful evil lvl 20 wizard can research the spells I did...do exactly what I did. What a coincidence though... wow.. he used the same methods (spells and everything) and he has the same power... But again... I SMELL A GOOD ADVENture. I'll show the copycat that I can do more than mindrape somebody.. heh. 5th: I guess the DM can say, "no...Asmodeus is unique." and "hey guess what... asmodeus isn't the ruler of hell really..." and other things. Man.. if he wasn't ruler then boY!! I'd be in trouble huh. That's a good way for a DM to jack yah! "Oh sorry Ahoyanende, Asmodeus isn't actually the leader.. so you can't call Bel, the archfiend, your slave... oh and ahoyanende.. he looks mad."
The_Yellow_Dart_Swinger 07-01-05, 07:03 PM	Well, first off, the gate spell discription can be argued apon. From my interpentation a controlled creature does not have to do anything you say. If you tell an angel to go slaughter children I would say it doesn't have to follow that order. I believe the term is that the serivce must be reasonable for the summoned being to partake in it. Also Asmodeus is not dumb, I think he wouldn't let some piddly 20th level wizard mind rape him if he can keep the other rulers in line somewhat. I think he would have safeguards to prevent this kind of thing. I also agree that he is a unique being considering his near deity level of power and would be under no compulsion to listen to you in the first place. I'd like to quote the first line under the heading Archdevils on page 143 of the book of vild darkness "Like the demon princes, the archdevils are the greatest of their kind and wholly unique. All another prince would have to do if use a wish or miracle spell to put Asmodeus's mind back in order and you'd probably be toast. Bel, the first archdevil can cast it once aday as a spell like ability. Pit Feinds themselves arn't dumb, all they need to do is get an item that casts an anti-magic field and your toast, and I'd be fairly sure that they could find such an item. Of course everything is up to the DM. If the DM says ok, then that is the DM's decision. Whether or not anyone else agrees with it. I certainly think it is considering the power of the creatures in the level you are. If you were say level 50 or something insane like that. Then I probably wouldn't say anything about it.
Ahoyanende 07-01-05, 07:49 PM	Oh darn it. That's right...I overlooked it. Thanks. I guess it's back to the drawing board. Well... now I really don't know what to do with my character. What do you all do with your high level characters? By high level I mean from around 10 - 20th lvl.
Maug 07-02-05, 03:42 AM	Off topic (kinda) But to rule hell you would have to beat asmodeus... and thats no easy feat. Epic 35 or 40+ lvls...
Talinna 07-02-05, 02:34 PM	First: I thought unique beings were deities and creatures like the tarassque (the fact that there is only 1 in the universe). Asmodeus is a baatezu. There are a lot of those baatezu (maybe millions of them). I thought Asmodeus is just the one that got super powerful. I guess DM can say he's unique, huh? Not exactally sure where I read it, but I do remember reading somewhere that anything with a divine ranking of 1 or more is considered an "unique" being.... thus lord of hell would stand to be "unique" ... but in all theories, you're guy would have the longing to achive this goal, and work to find ways to do it (which requior him to achive divine ranking which then would make him no longer elligable as a player character <but this would achive his goal! and make him an evil legend> but lets think on how man works too.... " the devil you know is better than the devil you don't know" .... and for the orential adventure " to slay one great evil is only to leave room for a greater unknown evil to take it's place." or for the guy who wants to play a jedi "there is always a bigger fish"
The^Wanderer 07-02-05, 07:26 PM	Well, I'll answer this part: My original intention in forming this post is to ask everybody what their lvl 20 (or any high level) character is doing or is capable of doing, because I fear my character is lacking motivation and goals.... My evil archmage is currently working as a tailor far away from home. No... seriously!
Norhg 07-02-05, 07:55 PM	My highest level character, a level 9 bard, has a more than even chance to be able to trick a solar that he is the real ruler of Mount Celestia and that it has to obey all his commands or cease existing. Bluff +53 with glibness, sheez.
Boarfury 07-07-05, 05:01 PM	High level characters huh? I have a monk who is currently roaming the underdark performing good deeds (destroying beholder hives, taking out entrenched half fiendish red dragons, escaping the Drow and generaly ******* Triel Baenre off) kinda like Kung Fu but in the Underdark. I have a wizard/loremaster that is teleporting all over the realms uncovering the truth behind the history and trying not to subsume the divinity of that time elf god. I have a barbarian that is wandering the planes doing nothing. I have a paladin that is fighting off a Sembian incursion into the western heartlands. I have a wizard that is helping fog giants move to Halruaa. I have a character that is hunting down the followers of Anhur in the streets of Unthalass. And I never get to game, imagine that.
gaeasdefender 07-09-05, 02:30 PM	I have a 13th level druid/14th level shadowdacer celestial lupinal, named Jinggles, that got kicked out of home for being chaotic neutral. She runs around topless, throwing pepper bombs at all people she thinks are funny, and talks random groups of adventurers into trying to save the world.
Gurel 07-21-05, 03:41 AM	My level 10 Fighter is gearing up a mercenary company, scouting out the stonelands, helping one of the leaders of the council of Halruuah recover a page from the elder scrolls, dabbling in politics in Suzail to get some more military support and generaly laying the groundwork for an invation of the stonelands of Cormyr to get that barons title. And otherwise doing good deeds for payment and spending time with his wife, the other figther in the party :)
DM-Vigilance 07-21-05, 10:30 PM	I like to think that anything is possible, especially around level 20. The idea is an intriguing one and now that you've set me down the path, I think I'm going to be working on it- hypothetically, of course. Besides it'll give me something for my own campaign. Let's start with logistics: *You don't have the kind of power it takes to control, defeat, or even reliably summon Asmodeous. Since you can't control or defeat him, I doubt you'd want to summon him anyway. *Hell is a pretty unhospitable place. The natives may be lawful, but they aren't friendly. One slip and you won't be ruling hell... The plan must be full-proof, and you shouldn't underestimate the ingenuity of fools. You might even be one yourself for trying this, but I assume the payoff outweighs the risk in your case. *Who else has successfully conquered Hell? How? For starters, we have Asmodeus. Do some research and learn how he did it. Another character of lore that comes to mind is Raistlin; he never had to fight the Dark Queen, he just had to outsmart/outrun her. *What are the pitfalls of these plans? What is Asmodeus afraid of? He must fear something or else he wouldn't be in his position: after all, if nothing else he fears the loss of his power. You'd just have to convince him that is a possibility. Also beware such influences as mercy, love, or compassion; these have proven to be common pitfalls. *Does anyone else want to rule hell? Destroy it? Certainly there are liches/ evil spellusers, and dark knights with similar goals. Let's not forget Demons, whose chaotic nature and enmity towards devils would make them excellent partners. Alternatively, the celestials might be tempted/tricked into a scheme to overthrow the leadership of Hell. Celestials are also less likely to turn on you, and are virtually guaranteed not to be after the throne of Hell. *What are your capabilities? You may not be able to defeat Asmodeus at level 20, but could you impersonate him? What would be the effects or consequences and how could you integrate this into your plan? Summary of Step One: You will begin by performing divinations and gathering research any means possible. Loremaster levels or allies would be of great service. When contacting other planes, communicate only with elemental planes: this keeps your questioning secret from your enemies/tools, the Evil and Good Outsiders. Begin making contacts with possible allies. Masters of lore both celestial and vile are your friends. Keep your plan a secret. If you will be mixing with several groups of allies, keep them chaotic. Chaotic good is more likely than lawful counterparts to team up with evil to overcome a greater evil. Your most loyal followers must be lawful. You will have a balancing act in both maintaining power to control both chaotic and lawful allies. Develop rhetoric to tempt do-gooders, or at least keep them off of your back. Main concerns: Intelligence for gathering info, Wisdom to aid in planning and detecting the motives of others, charisma to convince others to help (wittingly or no.) Hope this helps. More steps soon!
Dreaming Bard 07-21-05, 10:49 PM	Let's see, there my 20th level Sorcerer has been possessed by Bel (Ahoyanende, if you do end up taking over hell, please get rid of the old Guardian of the first for me, I realy hate that guy) My 16th level Bard is a legandary storyteller and has been headmaster of his very own bardic collage for about 120 years (Yes, there was some magic involved in that.) My My 13th level wizard has been de-aged to pre-birth. Well, 1 out of three turned out ok... not bad right?
DM-Vigilance 07-22-05, 11:34 PM	I'm glad you can join me for this installment of Rule Hell in 12 Easy Steps. Last time we looked at what had to be done in regards to gathering infomation and building contacts. To recap, the best way to go is to find loremasters, bards, and religious scholars, and to pose questions to draw minimum attention to yourself. But from here on, the process depends on the DM as much as anyone else. We need to consider this as we look at this installment's phase: Planning. First of all, one must take steps to insure that the campaign is compatible with an Infernal Takeover. You may need to talk with your DM, but try not to reveal more of your plan to him than is necessary. Also look for clues. In an evil-centric campaign, your chances of being allowed such an opportunity are much greater. But even in a noble Save the World! style game, there is room to flex. After all, who would you rather have ruling Hell, Asmodeus, or well, you? At any rate, the DM can roadblock you. So in regard to our example, we will be using the Core Rules, and Book of Vile Darkness as our base, with a neutral opinion as to whether or not this can be done. Your campaign will vary. *Evil? Me? It's not necessary to be a cackling, maniacal, sinister, etc. madman. This will seriously impeed your progress, as it will be a dead give away. Evil cults, sacrifices, all of that sort of thing may have a place in your plan, but be patient. While you plan, pose as good or neutral. Heck, until you start your plan, you might even qualify for neutral. If you are traveling in an evil party, you have room to flex, but don't let onto your grand scheme. *Keep an open mind, look for opportunities. Did you just stop an evil cult based on destroying the Prime Material Plane? Get as much information as you can from cult leaders. Read the books and journals of the liches and evil wizards that you vanquish, even if they aren't packed with spells or don't give you a +2 int. bonus. Be adaptable. *You will need an ally, and you will need to lie to them. Consider the best possible mind-protection and anti-scrying spells. They are useless if they do not operate 24 hrs. So you will need another caster, extended spells, or magic items to give you these protections. Keep in mind you may not be able to hide your schemes from the gods. (Note: In some campaigns Gods may not have power on their enemies turf. In other words, if you want to plan in secret from evil gods/ dukes of hell, hide in a good plane like celestia. Or vice versa.) *Check your sources. You have consulted with the outer planes, scholars, and ancient tomes. Cross-reference to be reasonably sure that the information is correct. *Decide on your plan. You will have a few options once you have completed your research, and will need to decide on which plan to follow. If you do not have any/enough options, go back to the research phase of the plan and try again. Taking over hell will not be easy, note that many plans may be less than pleasant. *Spells: It simply is impossible for a non-caster to have necessary access to the various powerful abilities to enact such a plan. If you have a fighter/rogue type that wishes to Rule Hell, consider carefully your ambitions. If you are still set on your path, you will need some powerful magic items and/or an easily manipulated magic-using croney. (Cohorts may be useful) Be sure that you can easily dispatch your spellcasting companion or the best you can hope for is a 50% split of the throne. Although you are more likely to be split than the throne... *Make a list. Your list should include a time table, inventory of needed supplies, beings that must be contacted, and details of what to do. Do not let anyone see the list. Example: For now I have rolled up a 20th level character exclusively for the purpose of taking over Hell. I have given him a benevolent personality, NE alignment, and consider him to be a member of a four-character party consisting of good and neutral alignments. For my purposes, I used a Human 10Wiz/10 Loremaster. Suit your plan to match your own character/party. For the campaign, I used BoVD stuff. If you're not familiar with it, it should still make a little sense. Cenebrik the Loremaster has been doing some research as of late. His party thinks he is studying how to do battle with the legions of Hell, and in a way he is. He has made use of maximum ranks in knowledge: Planes, and Knowledge Religion. He has learned from research that all 9 leaders of Hell gather once a year, led by Archduke Asmodeus. Cenebrik wants to hold a little surprise for the next visit. He has convinced the party to go on a quest for the Wand of Orcus, a powerful artifact valuable to a prominent Demon Lord. The pretense for the quest is to recover and destroy the device, by destroying it in the Fifth layer of Hell. The Fifth layer of Hell bit will be a convenient ruse. The party will go there allegedly to learn the next step to destroying the artifact. They will go to the Glacier wherein the lord of the Fifth, Levistus, resides and free him. The lord of Fifth's only motivation is to avenge himself on Asmodeus for his imprisonment, and should be less of a threat to the party than to his Master, the Archduke. In the meanwhile, Cenebrik will leave the Wand of Orcus in the glacier, and smash a fake replica against the ice. Spells can be used for dramatic effect. The party will return knowing they have done a good job. In the meantime, Cenebrik will take a vacation to contact a demon servant of Orcus... Orcus will of course be enraged at the prospect of a Lawful Devil in possession of a Chaotic Demon artifact. Cenebrik does not contact Orcus, but a follower, and will convince the follower that Orcus' Artifact is a major key to a Devil plot. Orcus will then go to war with the Devils. Finally, with a major blood war going on below, Cenebrik returns to the party with the dire news that something terrible is happening in the Hells, and must be stopped. But the party needs help. The entire party petitions the celestial forces of good to send us an army. The army will not fight the multitude of devils and demons, though. We will be striking the ruling nine when they hold their next meeting... From here you get the picture. Cenebrik storms the gates of Hell with the party and celestial backup, the guards of Hell too busy with the Demonic invasion. Levistus is already after Asmodeus, and none of the lords of hell like their commander much: betraying the ruler of Hell would fit many of them just fine. In charge of the celestial horde, Cenebrik makes a telepathic offer to banish the agents of light in exchange for Asmodeus' power. If the other lords of hell agree, Cenebrik will give them back their old, more handsome forms and keep Asmodeus as an advisor, before casting whatever spells or using whatever devices are necessary to banish the celestials, and if necessary, the party. The new ruler of Hell's first order of business would be to fork over the wand of Orcus to get rid of the Demons, and the second order of business will be to throw a nice party. ...At least that's the plan. Thanks for tuning into Rule Hell in 12 Easy steps! Future installments on their way!
Manyfist 07-28-05, 07:50 PM	*Evil? Me? It's not necessary to be a cackling, maniacal, sinister, etc. madman. This will seriously impeed your progress, as it will be a dead give away. Evil cults, sacrifices, all of that sort of thing may have a place in your plan, but be patient. While you plan, pose as good or neutral. Heck, until you start your plan, you might even qualify for neutral. If you are traveling in an evil party, you have room to flex, but don't let onto your grand scheme. Detect evil, you're history, it's really simple in a Good campaign. Nuetral they may not care then again they may. Evil campaign, backstabs you're not going to get far when everyone else knows your grand plan, I.E Rouge/Shadow Dancer. *You will need an ally, and you will need to lie to them. Consider the best possible mind-protection and anti-scrying spells. They are useless if they do not operate 24 hrs. So you will need another caster, extended spells, or magic items to give you these protections. Keep in mind you may not be able to hide your schemes from the gods. (Note: In some campaigns Gods may not have power on their enemies turf. In other words, if you want to plan in secret from evil gods/ dukes of hell, hide in a good plane like celestia. Or vice versa.) You'll need some Damn good Bluff skills. Also you can't get into the plane like Celestria and live if your an evil character. Example: For now I have rolled up a 20th level character exclusively for the purpose of taking over Hell. I have given him a benevolent personality, NE alignment, and consider him to be a member of a four-character party consisting of good and neutral alignments. For my purposes, I used a Human 10Wiz/10 Loremaster. Suit your plan to match your own character/party. For the campaign, I used BoVD stuff. If you're not familiar with it, it should still make a little sense. Smite Evil, Detect Evil, that's going to give you away. The Fifth layer of Hell bit will be a convenient ruse. The party will go there allegedly to learn the next step to destroying the artifact. They will go to the Glacier wherein the lord of the Fifth, Levistus, resides and free him. The lord of Fifth's only motivation is to avenge himself on Asmodeus for his imprisonment, and should be less of a threat to the party than to his Master, the Archduke. In the meanwhile, Cenebrik will leave the Wand of Orcus in the glacier, and smash a fake replica against the ice. Spells can be used for dramatic effect. The party will return knowing they have done a good job. In the meantime, Cenebrik will take a vacation to contact a demon servant of Orcus... You'll need some damn good Bluff skills against Levistus, if you're going to convince him to join your cause and not kill you on the spot. That's a high DC, I say immpossible. Also if you're in a Good aligned party wouldn't they want to kill Levistus as well, and make sure you destroyed the Real Wand? Also stroleing through 5th lvl you're going to be attacked by Pit Fiends, and tons of other Fiends. Where did Cenebrik come to play? Orcus will of course be enraged at the prospect of a Lawful Devil in possession of a Chaotic Demon artifact. Cenebrik does not contact Orcus, but a follower, and will convince the follower that Orcus' Artifact is a major key to a Devil plot. Orcus will then go to war with the Devils. Yet Orcus is not stupid, he's more likely to send other Demons to see if the word is true. If so then he'll wage a war, yet with Infinite Devils and Demons the war will take very little out of the Main force of Devils. Finally, with a major blood war going on below, Cenebrik returns to the party with the dire news that something terrible is happening in the Hells, and must be stopped. But the party needs help. The entire party petitions the celestial forces of good to send us an army. The army will not fight the multitude of devils and demons, though. We will be striking the ruling nine when they hold their next meeting... And how are you going to get all these Celestials to help you? Celestials are not going to accept 'Raiding party' ideas from lowly mortals. From here you get the picture. Cenebrik storms the gates of Hell with the party and celestial backup, the guards of Hell too busy with the Demonic invasion. Levistus is already after Asmodeus, and none of the lords of hell like their commander much: betraying the ruler of Hell would fit many of them just fine. In charge of the celestial horde, Cenebrik makes a telepathic offer to banish the agents of light in exchange for Asmodeus' power. If the other lords of hell agree, Cenebrik will give them back their old, more handsome forms and keep Asmodeus as an advisor, before casting whatever spells or using whatever devices are necessary to banish the celestials, and if necessary, the party. The new ruler of Hell's first order of business would be to fork over the wand of Orcus to get rid of the Demons, and the second order of business will be to throw a nice party. The Lords of Hell are alot more powerful than any of the Celestials, and can kill every single celestial, since they rival powers of gods. Unless you can get gods to fight, I doubt Archdevils are going to fear such. Wouldn't Asmodeus just banish Levistus like he did before. Another thing wouldn't they just banish the clestials with out a thought, Archdevils have powerful ablities. Also Asmodeus is alot more powerful than any of the Archdevils, he has alot more chance to say, "Hey, I am more powerful than you, I'll give you more levage with out the need of this." I would say that would convince some of them more than enough to defeat the Celestials. ...At least that's the plan. Thanks for tuning into Rule Hell in 12 Easy steps! Future installments on their way! You're going to have major problems. You need a Buff skill rank of epic proportion, and you're party will be doing research as well. After all when raiding such a place, it's going to be a handful. More likely the Parties Bard or Paladin, or Sorcerer in your good aligned Party is going to realise, theirs two wands. As such they would probly go and destroy the real wand against your wishes, also Detect Evil gives you away. Good Aligned party members are going to use that spell alot.
eternal swordsman 07-30-05, 10:59 PM	My dude could totally rule hell! He's a large half-white dragon, a son of Tiamat, level 20 Sorcerer, 10 dragonslayer. This was the second character I made, too. I once killed an entire army of paladins by casting wish to have the ground open up beneath them into a lava pit. And to beat Asmodeous, couldn't I just cast wish and ask for Tiamat's assistance? I bet she wouldn't say no to a little devil headhunt. And if that doesn't work, I could just dimension door & anchor him to celestia and let them deal with him.
Need_A_Life 07-31-05, 09:38 AM	You need to be good-aligned to get the full advantege of this plan (saving you the trouble of yelling; "Don't kill me!"). 1) Go to Mt. Celestia and request a meeting with the high lords of the celestial races. 2) Wait 'til there's angels, archons, eladrins, guardians etc. in the Mountain. 3) Suggest the following plan: The most powerful celestials gather in a single room, along with you. You cast Gate (from a scroll, probably. A wand would be cheaper I believe) and call Bel (lord of 1st). 70-80 arrows of slaying gives him a microscopic chance of surviving the INITIAL attack. 4) Contact your army (followers, mercenaries, cohorts, constructs) [Orc Warlord is perfect for this!] and tell them to invade the layer while they're still disorganized. Couple the army with a few Solars and your victory is guaranteed. 5) You now have 1 out of 9 layers of Hell. Tainted by evil you make a dramatic alignment change to NE/LE. 6) Contact the Celestials (using a messenger) and offer to re-do the procedure with the other lords (If they try to detect evil they'll find the entire plane to be evil-aligned and it must've 'rubbed off' on you) [Hag countess, Belial/Fierna, Mammon, Dispater, Baalzebul, Mephistopheles, Asmodeus] in the order mentioned here, Levistus will be thrilled that you have destroyed Asmodeus and will swear an oath to serve you. 7) Now that you rule Hell, swear to the Celestials that the strife between you will become only a legend and watch your cooperative work in destroying the Abyss.
Rickiel 08-01-05, 03:16 PM	Rule Baator? Sorry Primes, but this lil elf has no intentions of getting his fingers into such a tyrannical place. But what can this 20th level cutter do? First off, here's the class list. Rogue 7, Wizard 5, Arcane Trickster 8. That's 13 caster levels with a side order of 8d6 Sneak Attack. The familiar is a ferret. What mildly impressive feat could such a wimpy elf guy do? How about rip a Pit Fiend in tway? :eek: :confused: :eek: That's right. Rip a Pit Fiend apart! With his jaws of doom!!! Quite simple really. First off, target your soon to be munchy. Second, make sure your familiar ferret is on your shoulder and within 5ft (or arms length) of you at all times. Second, make sure your familiar has at least Improved Grapple as a feat. Third, use buff's as needed. Make sure there's something fast, AC improving, and fun! Two spells most needed though. Polymorph and Dimensional Anchor. DA the Pit Fiend, then Polymorph into something big, scaly, and with huge jaws and awesome grapple. Like a Rhemoraz, Purple Worm, or even a really huge squid! Now since you have your familiar on you, the effect of the spell can affect him as well! Two huge creatures! Twice the pain! Have the familiar buddy latch onto the Pit Fiend and then tear him to chunky bits! Remember kiddies, that Pit Fiend is not immune to sneak attacks! And sneak attacks can happen against a grappled opponent! And think of all the bonuses to damage for strength, along with the possibility of forcing Fortitude saves for massive damage!
LiXinjian 08-01-05, 04:03 PM	Ruling Baator is a barmy plan for addle-coved primes, berk, but let's see what a blood like me can come up with. Bear in mind that the first question you oughta ask yourself is why? Why would you want to rule hell? It's a lot of responsibilities for a short-lived being. It's not a pleasant enterprise either, and once hell has been acquired, it's damn-nigh impossible to hold onto it. Why would you want so many powerful enemies in the first place? However, here's a way you could do it, and relatively easily, too. What you do after Asmodeus is dead, however, is up to you. 1) Research. Acquire all the info you can on Pandemonium, and learn all you can about Agathion, the fourth layer, an infinite realm of isolated air bubbles within a earthly ground. Those bubbles are used by powerful creatures (gods and the like) to hide treasures and lock dangerous monsters away. The specifics are up to your DM, but what you are looking after is the true name of an ancient being called a Hecatoncheires. Your quest for long forgotten tomes and lore could lead you anywhere on the planes. If desperate, consider petitioning Ilsensine itself (through a proxy, of course), in its realm on the Outlands, the Caverns of Thought. But let's call that Plan B. Scour the multiverse for this crucial piece of info. 2) Find your way to Asmodeus' realm, and survive long enough to Gate in this Hecatoncheires (CR 57), or one-hundred-handed one which even gods have trouble killing. Since the creature is trapped in Agathion, chances are it'll come through the gate of its own free will, assuming puny mortal magics can overcome the ancient godly barriers that trapped this being on Pandemonium millenias ago. Perhaps the magic has dulled a bit over the eons, who knows? The good news is that you don't even have to control the creature (although you'd need only 26 HD to do it). If Asmodeus confronts it, all signs say that he'll die. If he flees, the creature's rampage will be enough to let all Baator know that Asmodeus has fled, and this sign of weakness will quickly be exploited by the Demon Lord's many many many enemies. From there, hope for the best. Interesting Note: The Hecatoncheires can summon another of its kind, which would make this a CR 159 encounter. Tough luck. Editor's Note -- A gate is 20 feet in diameter, an opening too small for the Hecantoncheires to step through. A pity. Also, deities and unique beings can freely prevent a gate from opening in their presence, too. What this all means is that you have to locate the Hecatoncheires physically, convince it to willingly plane shift out of its prison with you (even a barbarian with -10 to Diplomacy could do it), and hope to arrive close enough to Asmodeus' realm with the shift. Definitely doable.
Need_A_Life 08-02-05, 09:05 AM	Well, you would definetely have to make sure to keep power once you get a hold of it, if one person destroys the hierachy he can expect his downfall to be quicker than the one he planned. 1) Become a Lich, the phylactery should be something no one will look twice at; say... a copper piece enchanted with nystruls magical aura and undetectable alignment. 2) Now that you are immortal you get a hold of a ton of Contract of Nepthas. The text you want is: "Ye, [name], swear that no harm will come to me or my reign as a reason of any act you might do. Ye must not plan my death and must report such plots to me as soon as possible. Never may you reveal that you have signed a contract.". Make the thing fortified (better and penetrating spell resistance) and heightened. 3) Begin making Effigy creatures to protect you from all whom you haven't made a contract with... 4) Plot taking over Mt Celestia.
Wellby the Fountain 08-02-05, 04:26 PM	Detect evil, you're history, it's really simple in a Good campaign. Nuetral they may not care then again they may. Evil campaign, backstabs you're not going to get far when everyone else knows your grand plan, I.E Rouge/Shadow Dancer. non-detection, undetectable alignment, a hundred other things solve this problem.
Dark_beebles 08-03-05, 08:42 AM	My highest level character, a level 9 bard, has a more than even chance to be able to trick a solar that he is the real ruler of Mount Celestia and that it has to obey all his commands or cease existing. Bluff +53 with glibness, sheez. over looking the obvious that he has discern lies and greater dispell magic dispell evil 20 caster lvl's of a cleric and a 45sense motive with your -30 of saying your the ruler..as a hmm faint aura'd...human? lol =p
Archdevil_Thanatos 02-12-06, 11:04 PM	I've thought about this before and wondered if there's a need to rule all of hell. I mean couldn't you defeat Bel and fall into the hellish heirarchy already in place. Rule the first circle, Avernus, and gain the respect of the Dark Lords. I read in the book of vile darkness, that the Bel doesn't have strong alliances with any of the dark lords and is the newest of them. It also says that he is more focused on the blood war than on hellish politics. This would put him in a very shaky political position. He also may be draining power from the former demon queen Zeriel, which puts him in a very vulnerable position. Although Lawful Evil, many devils would be willing to overthrow him because of the disrespectful acts committed on their queen. With a high Knowlage of planes and royalty maybe one could find political wrongs in Bels action against the queen and attempt to arrest him legally, which would most likely end in a fight, but it would not be frowned upon as much as a baseless attack on a lord of hell. I thought about freeing Zeriel from her imprisonment to aid in the dethrowning of bel, but then it would be a fight for power, and due to her seniority, the Dark eight would probably leave a human with no authroity in hell despite his acts of devilish servitude. Maybe Zeriel would give a high raking position in her kingdom of Avernus where sucession would be much easier. I dunno, just throught of some stuff, there're probably alot of faults in my reasoning.