Which alignment fits this best? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Which alignment fits this best? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Mal20
10-17-04, 06:05 PM Hey all, I've sketched out a character portrait below, and wonder if you guys could help me decide which alignment fits best. Cheers!

Motivation for adventuring

A thrill addict, he loves to test his skills, wits and strength against the world, and finds the joy of victory in battle to be the ultimate high. He is a treasure seeker, and prizes the power of magic items and the value of gold. The independence an adventuring lifestyle brings also suits him well.

Morality

He is ambivalent about the metaphysical struggle between good and evil, but will fight to protect and can show great kindness to those people and things that are important to him. He finds needless killing or serious cruelty to be distasteful, but believes that if someone stands in his way and carries a weapon then they are fair game. He watches his companions closely to ensure they don't cheat him, and in turn will not cheat them. He will help someone in need if it is not unreasonably troublesome do so, and if he thinks they deserve it.

Relationships

He is respectful to authorities and commoners alike, but will mercilessly tease 'peers' (adventurers, mercenaries etc) who show weakness or stuffiness. While he will happily follow the instructions of those who he perceives as his 'elders', especially if he thinks he needs them, he chafes if told what to do by someone he considers an equal. If given orders or instructions by someone he considers inferior, he usually reacts with wry amusement.
preXus
10-17-04, 06:27 PM IMHO somewhere between cahotic neutral to neutral good...
Strife
10-17-04, 06:42 PM Agreed, which would make him Neutral :)
Victor Demikov
10-17-04, 07:43 PM He is most certainly True Neutral in alignment.
Ponderosa
10-17-04, 10:04 PM Really? I would place that character squarely at chaotic good. He's obviously good aligned, as he "will fight to protect and can show great kindness to those people and things that are important to him." His independent lifestyle makes him lean towards being chaotic, and a character who is chaotic at heart can still respect the "elders."
Strife
10-18-04, 02:26 AM My motivation för True Neutral is:
Paragraph 1: Chaotic Good
Paragraph 2: Some kind of Neutral
Paragraph 3: Neutral (He's lawful in some ways, just neutral in others)

Now my math is perhaps not the best, but I find he should be somewhere in the Neutral camp and most probably he's True Neutral.
jake_lex
10-18-04, 03:18 PM To me, there are two different types of Neutrality: indifference, and balance. That is, you're Neutral either because you don't care, or because you are pursuing a philosophical dictum that good and evil or order and chaos should be balanced.

So, then, my rule of thumb has always been that being Neutral on one axis or the other indicates indifference towards that axis. The Neutral Good person, for example, doesn't really worry too much about social structure or organization; they are more interested in doing good, and if that means working within lawful organizations, fine, if it means defying them, that's cool too.

The thing about this character to me, though, is that he almost seems indifferent on both poles: he will do good, but doesn't seem to go out of his way to do it, and he'll work within structures, but doesn't like it much. Given that he doesn't seem to be embracing any one of the alignment points over any other, he's True Neutral (or Neutral Neutral, perhaps, because, to me, True Neutral does imply that philosophy of balance I spoke of earlier.)

He's definitely not Evil, though. I think he's right on the cusp of NG, and would probably go over to that by the end of a campaign (I find Neutral characters who are that way through indifference find themselves facing a choice, often.)
Cantankerous
10-19-04, 05:35 AM One thing off the top: indifference isn't neutrality.. it is animality, thus non-alignment.

Neutrality seeks the balance, either between good and evil or law and chaos or both. To be indifferent is more realistic, but is not what the game mechanism, alignments, is all about..

Now, to the character as described: there is a tendency to behave in a manner that is ethicly and morally neutral, but there are leanings towards both law (in that he treats others property as theirs, thus the fair divison of loot, placing the group above the self in this instance) and towards good to a lesser extent (as he shows a distinct intolerance for the belittling of life). Also his disdain for "orders from an inferior" shows the marked hierarchical structure of law as well.

Personally I'd say he was either neutral with strong lawful and mild good tendenicies, or a marginal lawful, neutral individual with a strong leaning towards balance in his ethics (the law vs chaos area).

Isshia
Mal20
10-19-04, 08:09 AM Thanks guys, your responses have been very interesting.

At the moment the character is Neutral, but was originally Neutral Good. In his first adventure he was ‘forced’ (i.e. it was the only practical solution the group could find) to coup de grace 11 goblins as they slept, something he still feels guilty about (not the killing, but the fact they were sleeping) and wouldn’t like to do again. This might not have been enough to tip him into Neutrality, but the group also has a highly useful magic item that unfortunately ‘corrupts’ the user to a certain extent with each use, and he has used it several times. I’ve been playing this change as growing cynicism and tendency towards violent solutions.

Now, I’d like to make the character ‘find his path’ and become Good again (I like playing heroes), but this could be very difficult in his current party.
Mostly from a Lawful Neutral city-state, the group is comprised of a Lawful Evil Wizard (a power hungry but patriotic slimeball, think Colonel Maybourne from ‘Stargate: SG1’) who he despises, a Lawful Neutral Cleric of the state religion (devout, but essentially a politician) who he respects but finds difficult to relate to, and a Chaotic Good foreign fighter (a hedonist with a good heart), who he drinks and gambles with but thinks naïve, soft and a little cowardly. His best friend, a Neutral Good Fighter (selfless, loyal and extremely deadly) has just died, leaving him feeling slightly isolated.
In general we tend to favour expedient and ruthless solutions, not noble heroics, which can only get worse with the death of our strongest Good influence. I am also certain that we will face another life-or-death situation in which he’ll have to use the corrupting item again.

Sorry to ramble on (I know how tedious it can be reading about the intricacies of other peoples games), but based on this how do you think I should go about playing:

The change from Neutral back to Neutral Good while remaining essentially the same person? or

The change from Neutral to Neutral Evil without having him become a foam-mouthed maniac overnight?

Thanks again, and I hope some of you find this as interesting as I do!
relen
10-20-04, 10:11 AM ya know an aliment doesnt have to fit the character as it should shift witht he characters growth, if you dm tells you other wise, you should fawp him over the head with this
"the character dictates the aligment, the aligment does nto ditact the character"
Ahnehnois
10-20-04, 07:35 PM Sounds TN, maybe CN depending on how little he listens to authority.
Tony Vargas
10-20-04, 08:11 PM The change from Neutral back to Neutral Good while remaining essentially the same person? or He probably has to 'hit bottom' in some sense, first. Maybe the next time he uses the item, it will push him into doing something sufficiently awful that he'll get rid of it and start working to redeem himself.

The change from Neutral to Neutral Evil without having him become a foam-mouthed maniac overnight? The slide into evil can be easy. You need to use the item, you use it - it had to be done. If you can kill more of the enemy while thier asleep, you attack silently at night. Start out being pragmatic, but, at some point, reveal that the character has started enjoying the things he's been 'forced' to do...
Righetti
10-20-04, 09:35 PM I would have said that the Character was CN from the beginning as Choas is not random acts of violence, but a limited form of selfishness, and in some instances indeference equals selfishness. so I think that CN is the road you should travel.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Mal20 10-17-04, 06:05 PM	Hey all, I've sketched out a character portrait below, and wonder if you guys could help me decide which alignment fits best. Cheers! Motivation for adventuring A thrill addict, he loves to test his skills, wits and strength against the world, and finds the joy of victory in battle to be the ultimate high. He is a treasure seeker, and prizes the power of magic items and the value of gold. The independence an adventuring lifestyle brings also suits him well. Morality He is ambivalent about the metaphysical struggle between good and evil, but will fight to protect and can show great kindness to those people and things that are important to him. He finds needless killing or serious cruelty to be distasteful, but believes that if someone stands in his way and carries a weapon then they are fair game. He watches his companions closely to ensure they don't cheat him, and in turn will not cheat them. He will help someone in need if it is not unreasonably troublesome do so, and if he thinks they deserve it. Relationships He is respectful to authorities and commoners alike, but will mercilessly tease 'peers' (adventurers, mercenaries etc) who show weakness or stuffiness. While he will happily follow the instructions of those who he perceives as his 'elders', especially if he thinks he needs them, he chafes if told what to do by someone he considers an equal. If given orders or instructions by someone he considers inferior, he usually reacts with wry amusement.
preXus 10-17-04, 06:27 PM	IMHO somewhere between cahotic neutral to neutral good...
Strife 10-17-04, 06:42 PM	Agreed, which would make him Neutral :)
Victor Demikov 10-17-04, 07:43 PM	He is most certainly True Neutral in alignment.
Ponderosa 10-17-04, 10:04 PM	Really? I would place that character squarely at chaotic good. He's obviously good aligned, as he "will fight to protect and can show great kindness to those people and things that are important to him." His independent lifestyle makes him lean towards being chaotic, and a character who is chaotic at heart can still respect the "elders."
Strife 10-18-04, 02:26 AM	My motivation för True Neutral is: Paragraph 1: Chaotic Good Paragraph 2: Some kind of Neutral Paragraph 3: Neutral (He's lawful in some ways, just neutral in others) Now my math is perhaps not the best, but I find he should be somewhere in the Neutral camp and most probably he's True Neutral.
jake_lex 10-18-04, 03:18 PM	To me, there are two different types of Neutrality: indifference, and balance. That is, you're Neutral either because you don't care, or because you are pursuing a philosophical dictum that good and evil or order and chaos should be balanced. So, then, my rule of thumb has always been that being Neutral on one axis or the other indicates indifference towards that axis. The Neutral Good person, for example, doesn't really worry too much about social structure or organization; they are more interested in doing good, and if that means working within lawful organizations, fine, if it means defying them, that's cool too. The thing about this character to me, though, is that he almost seems indifferent on both poles: he will do good, but doesn't seem to go out of his way to do it, and he'll work within structures, but doesn't like it much. Given that he doesn't seem to be embracing any one of the alignment points over any other, he's True Neutral (or Neutral Neutral, perhaps, because, to me, True Neutral does imply that philosophy of balance I spoke of earlier.) He's definitely not Evil, though. I think he's right on the cusp of NG, and would probably go over to that by the end of a campaign (I find Neutral characters who are that way through indifference find themselves facing a choice, often.)
Cantankerous 10-19-04, 05:35 AM	One thing off the top: indifference isn't neutrality.. it is animality, thus non-alignment. Neutrality seeks the balance, either between good and evil or law and chaos or both. To be indifferent is more realistic, but is not what the game mechanism, alignments, is all about.. Now, to the character as described: there is a tendency to behave in a manner that is ethicly and morally neutral, but there are leanings towards both law (in that he treats others property as theirs, thus the fair divison of loot, placing the group above the self in this instance) and towards good to a lesser extent (as he shows a distinct intolerance for the belittling of life). Also his disdain for "orders from an inferior" shows the marked hierarchical structure of law as well. Personally I'd say he was either neutral with strong lawful and mild good tendenicies, or a marginal lawful, neutral individual with a strong leaning towards balance in his ethics (the law vs chaos area). Isshia
Mal20 10-19-04, 08:09 AM	Thanks guys, your responses have been very interesting. At the moment the character is Neutral, but was originally Neutral Good. In his first adventure he was ‘forced’ (i.e. it was the only practical solution the group could find) to coup de grace 11 goblins as they slept, something he still feels guilty about (not the killing, but the fact they were sleeping) and wouldn’t like to do again. This might not have been enough to tip him into Neutrality, but the group also has a highly useful magic item that unfortunately ‘corrupts’ the user to a certain extent with each use, and he has used it several times. I’ve been playing this change as growing cynicism and tendency towards violent solutions. Now, I’d like to make the character ‘find his path’ and become Good again (I like playing heroes), but this could be very difficult in his current party. Mostly from a Lawful Neutral city-state, the group is comprised of a Lawful Evil Wizard (a power hungry but patriotic slimeball, think Colonel Maybourne from ‘Stargate: SG1’) who he despises, a Lawful Neutral Cleric of the state religion (devout, but essentially a politician) who he respects but finds difficult to relate to, and a Chaotic Good foreign fighter (a hedonist with a good heart), who he drinks and gambles with but thinks naïve, soft and a little cowardly. His best friend, a Neutral Good Fighter (selfless, loyal and extremely deadly) has just died, leaving him feeling slightly isolated. In general we tend to favour expedient and ruthless solutions, not noble heroics, which can only get worse with the death of our strongest Good influence. I am also certain that we will face another life-or-death situation in which he’ll have to use the corrupting item again. Sorry to ramble on (I know how tedious it can be reading about the intricacies of other peoples games), but based on this how do you think I should go about playing: The change from Neutral back to Neutral Good while remaining essentially the same person? or The change from Neutral to Neutral Evil without having him become a foam-mouthed maniac overnight? Thanks again, and I hope some of you find this as interesting as I do!
relen 10-20-04, 10:11 AM	ya know an aliment doesnt have to fit the character as it should shift witht he characters growth, if you dm tells you other wise, you should fawp him over the head with this "the character dictates the aligment, the aligment does nto ditact the character"
Ahnehnois 10-20-04, 07:35 PM	Sounds TN, maybe CN depending on how little he listens to authority.
Tony Vargas 10-20-04, 08:11 PM	The change from Neutral back to Neutral Good while remaining essentially the same person? or He probably has to 'hit bottom' in some sense, first. Maybe the next time he uses the item, it will push him into doing something sufficiently awful that he'll get rid of it and start working to redeem himself. The change from Neutral to Neutral Evil without having him become a foam-mouthed maniac overnight? The slide into evil can be easy. You need to use the item, you use it - it had to be done. If you can kill more of the enemy while thier asleep, you attack silently at night. Start out being pragmatic, but, at some point, reveal that the character has started enjoying the things he's been 'forced' to do...
Righetti 10-20-04, 09:35 PM	I would have said that the Character was CN from the beginning as Choas is not random acts of violence, but a limited form of selfishness, and in some instances indeference equals selfishness. so I think that CN is the road you should travel.