Post/Author/DateTime	Post
tec-goblin 04-05-08, 08:52 AM	Hi, this is a repost from here (http://www.alderac.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=39&t=66917) It is adressed to people who might want to play a swashbuckling adventure in d20, or add swashbuckling elements to a d20 campaign. 4th edition is almost out. We might soon be in the position of being in a 4e group and wanting to introduce them flawlessly to something in the pirate era, or slightly after. What do we do? The good news: (based on http://www.enworld.org/ scoops) Low magic into the system (defense bonuses incorporated, the system works with magic armors as well as it does without) Simpler NPC management Better multiclassing (wizards can, for example, select useful powers from the fighter list.) The bad news: No "modern" version (you know, something with acceptable skill sets, massive damage rules that makes it possible to fall down by a pistol shot, ****-universalis character generation etc) Very very funny natural healing Difficult class design. So, this is a call for people who might be interested in helping (developing, playtesting) an elegant add-on to 4e to make swashbuckling campaigns with the right feel possible. A suggested plan for action: 1) sample 4e character sheets ("that's how I want my character to look") 2) determine a short list of added skills (of range and value equivalent to the existing, so "forgery" cannot stand as a skill of its own - I remind here that in 4e perception groups spot and listen, stealth groups hide and move silently, and thievery many rogue skills) 3) build a short list of core rule variants (I don't think we'll need more than 2) 4) add minimal rules for firearms (d20 past is a very good supplement for that) 5) build a swashbuckler class (that can be used to play pirates, musketteers, swashbucklers etc, with the appropriate choice of powers and skills) Then possibly a noble. 6) create mechanics (feats? talents of swashbuckler? paragon paths?) for swordsman schools
tec-goblin 04-05-08, 08:53 AM	This is how I imagine a 1st level noble swashbuckler: Sample character sheet: Denis du Bois des Charpennes Male Human (Montaigne) Swashbuckler Level 1 Unaligned (Proud) Ability Score Value Mod Strength 12 +1 Constitution 10 +0 Dexterity 16 +3 Intelligence 14 +2 Wisdom 10 +0 Charisma 16 +3 Armor Class 16 Fortitude Defense 12 Reflex Defense 16 Will Defense 14 Initiative +3 Speed (Squares) 6 HIT POINTS 22 BLOODIED 11 HEALING SURGE HP HEALED 4 HEALING SURGES/DAY 6 Rapier +3 vs AC 1d8+1 Pistol +6 vs Ref (vs AC for magical armors) 1d8+3 Load Full-Round action, Ignores non-magical armor. 15 squares normal/30 squares max FEATS False Insult Master (Montaigne Social Combat Style) Skill Training: Diplomacy SKILLS Passive Insight 15 Passive Perception 15 Acrobatics +8 Athletics +1 Bluff +8 Diplomacy +8 Insight +5 Intimidate +3 Perception +5 Stealth +8 Streetwise +3 RACE AND CLASS FEATURES Wits and Speed: You add both your Intelligence and Dexterity modifier to your AC instead of choosing only one of them. Dueler: When you attack, you can vocally issue a duel as a free action, marking your target. For the duration of the encounter, all opponents who heard the duel and understood the language get -3 to attack rolls against you. Attacking another opponent unmarks the target of the duel. Renown (extra power chosen from the diplomat* list and gained from Montaigne nationality) Languages: Montaigne, Avalon and Castillian Normal Vision EQUIPMENT Leather jacket, rapier, coach EXPLOITS (Martial Powers) At-Will Powers Ambidextrous Shot Swashbuckler Attack 1 You fire your pistol with one hand, while with the other hand you can keep nearby opponents at bay with your sword. At-Will * Martial, Weapon Standard Action Pistol Special: You have to be using a pistol and a martial weapon. This attack does not draw attacks of opportunity. Target: One creature. Attack: +6 vs Ref Hit: 1d8 + 3 damage. Piercing Strike (as the Rogue talent with the same name, Attack +6 vs Reflex, d8 + 3 damage) Encounter Power Between the Lines Swashbuckler Counter 1 You learn to anticipate the opponent's movements. Encounter * Martial Immediate Interrupt Personal Effect: When an enemy hits you, make an Insight check with a +2 bonus. If the check is equal or higher than your opponent's attack roll, the attack has missed you. Daily Power Jump from the Chandelier Swashbuckler Attack 1 Jumping from a higher surface, you smash an enemy and become a paradigm for your allies. Daily * Martial, Weapon Standard Action Melee Weapon Target: One creature Special: You must have jumped from higher ground during this turn to use this exploit. Attack: +6 vs Reflex Hit: 3d8 + 3 damage. If you hit, all allies in 6 squares gain +4 morale bonus to attack rolls and skill checks for the following round. *We might need a courtier/noble class, I call it diplomat for now.
Pyrate_Jib 04-06-08, 04:08 PM	Love the fact that you used Swashbuckling Adventures (7th Sea d20)! That whole campaign world just rocked! IMHO Northern Crown and 7th Sea are the way I like to run my campaigns! The Swashbuckler Class looks nice!
tec-goblin 04-07-08, 03:52 AM	Love the fact that you used Swashbuckling Adventures (7th Sea d20)! That whole campaign world just rocked! IMHO Northern Crown and 7th Sea are the way I like to run my campaigns! The Swashbuckler Class looks nice! Thanks! I have indeed played a lot of Swashbuckling Adventures. The rules had their problems, but it was super fun. And here's a repost of a caster. Less necessary for generic swashbuckling, but as you liked the 7thSea world, it might be of interest ;) Preliminary views on classes : From the PHB we can keep the following: Fighter (particularly for Eisen) – defender role (roles are something inherent in 4e) Paladin (rare, but a few in the Church of the Prophets) – defender/leader Rogue (very common) – striker role Warlord (less common than noble, but still many in military command or even on ships) – leader role (Warlock )(very rare, in cults like the Agiotage) I do not see any place for the cleric. We could build el fuego based on wizard or warlock, but el fuego is really not a priority right now (anyone wanting to implement the class is welcome, though). A swashbuckler class is probably a priority (swashbucklers are not defenders primarily, and we definitely need firearm flavoured feats. Rogue could work for scoundrels, but not for musketeers). That leaves us with no one to fit the controller role, and probably too few leader roles. Thankfully, 7thSea has plenty of inspiration. Let’s start with a controller: Alicia Lorenzi Female Human (Vodacce) Fate Witch Level 4 Unaligned (Overconfident) Ability Score Value Mod Strength 10 +0 Constitution 12 +1 Dexterity 14 +2 Intelligence 13 +1 Wisdom 16 +3 Charisma 14 +2 Armor Class 14 Fortitude Defense 14 Reflex Defense 15 Will Defense 17 Initiative +4 Speed (Squares) 6 HIT POINTS 31 BLOODIED 15 MASSIVE DAMAGE 16 HEALING SURGE HP HEALED 7 HEALING SURGES/DAY 7 Mw small dagger +8 vs AC 1d3 +4 to conceal Or Mw Thrown Knife +8 vs AC 1d3+2 +4 to conceal, 5 squares normal / 10 squares max FEATS Capputina Sworsdman (grants knife pin encounter power) Cross-Class Training (grants access to Swashbuckler’s Between the Lines power as a daily exploit) Extend Spell (I don’t know how it will be implemented, but I suppose that with a penalty to your check or 3/day you increase the duration of a spell. Durations of 1 round become 1 encounter, of 1 encounter become 1 day, and all the rest are doubled... Skill Training: Bluff (Bonus from Vodacce Nationality) Weapon Finesse SKILLS Passive Insight 20 Passive Perception 20 Acrobatics +4 Arcana +8 Athletics +2 Bluff +9 Diplomacy +4 Endurance +8 Insight +10 Intimidate +9 Perception +10 Stealth +4 RACE AND CLASS FEATURES Pulling too hard on the strands: You can choose to take a +4 bonus to any spell or ritual by pulling too hard on the strands, but there is a serious risk of backlash. After the spell, you have to roll an Endurance check with a DC equal to 10 + the level of the spell. If you fail, you take damage equal to two times your level (8). Ritual Casting: Can use Rituals. Languages: Vodacce and Montaigne Normal Vision SPELLS (Arcane Powers) and EXPLOITS (Martial Powers) At-Will Powers Minor Curse Fate Witch Attack 1 You speak a curse for your opponent, and fate listens to you. At-Will * Arcane Standard Action Ranged 20 Target: One creature. Attack: +5 vs Will Hit: The target takes -4 to all attack rolls and checks for 1 round. Fate Lash Fate Witch Attack 3 You grasp a fate strand and wildly swing it against your opponent to slide him with it, making it visible for a second. At-Will * Arcane, Dangerous Bargain Standard Action Ranged 20 Dangerous Bargain: If you choose to pull too hard on the strands to gain a bonus for this spell and fail the Endurance check, if you die during this encounter, you raise as an Unraveled when midnight comes. Target: One creature. Attack: +5 vs Ref Hit: 2d6+2 damage. Special: This power counts as a ranged basic attack. When a power allows you to make a ranged basic attack, you can use this power. Sense Strands Fate Witch Cantrip You can observe a person’s most important strands, understanding how fate has linked the target with other persons. At-Will * Arcane Standard Action Ranged 20 Target: One creature. Attack: +5 vs Will Hit: You can see the two persons with whom the target is most linked by fate. It can be anything from a love affair or a potential killer of the target. You get a +2 bonus on all Insight and Diplomacy rolls against the target from now on. If you roll a critical, you see four persons instead but the bonus does not increase. Special: You can use this power only once per encounter per day. Encounter Powers Knife Pin Granted by feat Your knife attaches the clothing of the adversary to a nearby object. Encounter * Sworsdman, Martial, Weapon Standard Action Dagger (thrown or not) Target: One creature adjacent to a wall or large object. Attack: +8 vs Ref Hit: The target is immobilized and takes a -2 penalty to AC until he spends a standard action to detach himself. Charm Person Fate Witch ??? 2 You weave the strands with your hands. When the target looks again at you, he happens to see in you something that reminds him of the past. Something happy. Encounter * Arcane, Mind-Affecting, Charm Standard Action Ranged 20 Target: One creature. Attack: +5 vs Will Hit: For the duration of the encounter, the target sees you as a friend (blah blah, charm person description, blah blah. Remember that you can extend this spell to last for 1 day). Special: You get -3 to this roll if the target is hostile against you. Fate’s smile Fate Witch Counter 1 You caress the strands of your team, and fate pays you back. Encounter * Arcane Immediate Interrupt Ranged 10 Effect: You can use this power after your or and ally have rolled a skill check, but before you know the result of the action. The check is rolled again and you have to keep the second result. Daily Powers Between the Lines Swashbuckler Counter 1 You learn to anticipate the opponent's movements. Encounter > Daily (cross-class) * Martial Immediate Interrupt Personal Effect: When an enemy hits you, make an Insight check with a +2 bonus. If the check is equal or higher than your opponent's attack roll, the attack has missed you. Form of the Fatemaster Fate Witch Attack 4 You let people see what you see in the mirror – strands leave you from all sides, slightly moving with a will of their own. The sight strikes terror to the hearts your opponents. Daily * Arcane, Dangerous Bargain Dangerous Bargain: If you choose to pull too hard on the strands to gain a bonus for this spell and fail the Endurance check, if you die during this encounter, you raise as an Unraveled when midnight comes. Standard Action Ranged 20 Target: One creature Attack: +9 (Intimidate) vs Will Hit: The target is frightened. Save ends. Sustain Minor: You gain a +6 bonus to Intimidate. RITUALS Augury Cups Spread Coins Spread Remove Curse (more when we finally see the rules on rituals)
tec-goblin 04-19-08, 03:30 AM	That's a repost from the original thread, where the discussion has advanced. It would be interesting to know if dnd people find what we make useful, balanced and interesting. Here's a character originally in the 7thSea system, converted to 4e, trying to be as close as possible to the number and levels of powers granted to a character of her level. Reune Vengasdotter Female Human (Vendel) Gifted Sorceress *just a placeholder name for swashbunny’s generic caster class* Sophia’s Scrying Paragon Path Level 20 Unaligned (Deceitful) Ability Score Value Mod Strength 10 +0 Constitution 11 +0 Dexterity 14 +2 Intelligence 18 +4 Wisdom 16 +3 Charisma 14 +2 Armor Class 24 Fortitude Defense 20 Reflex Defense 24 Will Defense 25 Initiative +12 Speed (Squares) 6 HIT POINTS 93 BLOODIED 46 MASSIVE DAMAGE 31 *This might reduce a little the d20 problem of too many HP* HEALING SURGE HP HEALED 15 HEALING SURGES/DAY 6 Mw rapier +15 vs AC 1d8 Or Mw thrown dagger +15 vs AC 1d4+2, 5 squares normal / 10 squares max FEATS Contacts (you can call for a low level contact once per week, but not more than once per session (see Cityscape)) Double parry (grants access to double parry encounter exploit. Requires being apprentice in a school that requires two weapon fighting. You are now considered a master in that school.) Extra Languages (ussuran, castille) *I don’t really know how languages are gained in 4e* Poison Expert (you don’t risk accidentally poisoning yourself) Poison Master (you get a +2 to followup attacks with poison) Proficiency: rapier Skill Training: Nature (Bonus from Vesten Nationality) Skill Training: Bluff, Diplomacy, Philosophy and Theology, Stealth Two Weapon Fighting *I don’t know how it works in 4e* Valroux Apprentice(grants access to tagging minor exploit) SKILLS Passive Insight 36 Passive Perception 28 Acrobatics +12 Arcana +23 Athletics +10 Bluff +17 Diplomacy +17 History +23 Insight +26 Nature +23 Perception +18 Philosophy and Theology +17 *Religion renamed* Science +23 *New Skill* Stealth +17 EQUIPEMENT Various poisons and scrying potions. RACE AND CLASS FEATURES Breath Water: Hereditary: scrying. Craft Scrying Potion Rituals: Hereditary: scrying. Provides access to crafting rituals for Scrying Potions. I know you better than you do: Hereditary: scrying OR sorte. +8 to insight. Loremaster: Counts as a level 10 at will power. You gain a +4 bonus to all trained Intelligence-based skills. Scrying Ritual Casting: Can use non-crafting Scrying Rituals. Languages: Avalon, Castille, Eisen, Montaigne, Théan, Ussuran, Vendel, Vodacce Normal Vision SPELLS (Arcane Powers) and EXPLOITS (Martial Powers) *the character should also have powers from the paragon path, but I think it gets too heavy, so I didn’t give any. We should probably have static abilities instead of powers in this case* At-Will Powers Dust of Irritation Gifted Sorceress Attack 6 You throw a pinch of magical dust from a pouch, causing intense snitching and sneezing to the opponent. At-Will * Martial, Hereditary: Scrying Standard Action Ranged 5 Target: One living creature. Attack: +12 vs Fortitude Hit: The target takes -2 to all attack rolls and checks for the duration of the encounter. Fumes of Slumber, Improved Gifted Sorceress Attack 16 You open a vial and blow the fumes towards your opponents, making them very sleepy. At-Will * Martial, Hereditary: Scrying, Sleep Standard Action Cone 2 Target: Each creature in cone Attack: +14 vs Will Hit: The target is slowed and grants combat advantage (save ends). If the target fails its first saving throw against the power, the target becomes unconscious for the duration of the encounter. Miss: The target is slowed (save ends). Tagging Granted by Valroux Apprentice feat You mark your opponent’s clothing, hair, outer skin etc in a way harmless for his body but devastating for his ego. At-Will * Martial, Swordsman Standard Action Melee Weapon Target: One creature with positive Intelligence score. Attack: +12 vs Reflex Hit: The target’s Will defense is reduced by 3, and his AC and Reflex by 2 until the next time he hits you. True Strike Gifted Sorceress Utility 2 A slight glimpse of the future helps you predict your target’s movements. At-Will * Arcane, Hereditary: Scrying Minor Action Personal Effect: You gain a +2 bonus to your next attack during this round. Encounter Powers Between the Lines Gifted Sorceress 7 (also Swashbuckler Counter 1) You learn to anticipate the opponent's movements. Encounter * Martial Immediate Interrupt Personal Effect: When an enemy hits you, make an Insight check with a +2 bonus. If the check is equal or higher than your opponent's attack roll, the attack has missed you. Double Parry Counter granted by feat You use both weapons to block an opponent’s attack, but this leaves your sides exposed. Encounter * Martial, Swordsman, Parry Immediate Interrupt Personal Special: You need to be equipped with two weapons to use this power. Effect: After an enemy has rolled an attack against you, make an attack roll with a +4 bonus. If the check is equal or higher than your opponent's attack roll, the attack has missed you. You grant combat advantage until your turn comes. Loremaster Hereditary Sorceress Utility 13 You have read or heard about this opponent. Its weaknesses are familiar, and your allies should know them. Encounter * Lore (*Lore is an interesting new power source*) Move Action Burst 12 Target: All allies in burst that can hear you and one enemy in burst. Attack: Make an appropriate Skill check regarding to knowledge for the enemy (like Arcane for a Magical Beast. See PHB for more) Success: Apart from the normal information gleamed about the enemy, all allies in burst receive a +2 bonus against his attacks for the duration of the encounter. If the target is not a humanoid, this bonus applies against all enemies in the encounter that are of the same race as the enemy. Vapor of Forgetfulness Gifted Sorceress Attack 17 This vapour erases the short term memories of nearby creatures. Encounter * Arcane, Hereditary: Scrying, Mind-affecting Standard Action Burst 2 Target: All creatures in burst, excluding you. Attack: +13 vs Fortitude Hit: The creature forgets what passed during this encounter and its attitude reverts to the one it had before the encounter. Blood and signs of battle might help it draw some conclusions, though. Special: On a critical hit, the target forgets what happened during its whole lifetime. Daily Powers It was just a vision Gifted Sorceress Utility 19 You realise that the seconds that passed was just a vision of the short term future. Now you watch dazed as everything starts again. Will you inform everyone on the future? Daily * Arcane, Hereditary: Scrying Standard Action Personal Effect: Everything is set back in the state it was after your previous turn. You have just enough time to prevent your allies on what you saw happening, in raw lines. The DM can determine that, in some cases, allies will not grant combat advantage to enemies they were not aware of before being prevented. As a downside, you are dazed until your next turn. See Invisibility Gifted Sorceress Utility 15 As wizard’s power with the same name (it probably exists!) Stepping on the Lake Gifted Sorceress Utility 9 You are a descendant of the Lady of the Lake. You can step on water without fear. Daily * Arcane, Hereditary: Scrying Minor Action Personal Effect: For the duration of the encounter, you can walk on water, or other liquids comprised from at least 50% water (like blood), as if it were normal terrain. RITUALS Craft Glasswater Craft Scrying Balm Craft Scrying Elixir Craft Scrying Philter Observe Creature (yes, normally it’s epic, but it’s ok I think in this case: scrying sorceress sacrifices breadth for focus on scrying) Plane Shift Scry the Past See the Future Sending (more details when we finally see the rules on rituals) In sort, I am not 100% pleased. Having initiative +12 is certainly fun for a character appearing to escape from various situations in the short stories in the book, but 93 hit points allow her to fool around way too much with starting characters. Falling in lava still kills her instantly, and a cannonball might drop her from massive damage, but still it feels a bit off. But that’s d20 ;). I am also wondering whether using a potion is martial or arcane? (crafting it is arcane, through a ritual, but using?)
Pyrate_Jib 04-29-08, 09:07 PM	You sure have the feel down for 4e! Now lets hope a few publishers are looking.
tec-goblin 04-30-08, 03:44 AM	You sure have the feel down for 4e! Now lets hope a few publishers are looking. Thanks a lot! That would be a happy circumstance :)
Pyrate_Jib 05-02-08, 08:21 PM	Alas Goblin I fear you and I are a bit of a dying breed. Those who like a little history in their fantasy. I don't think we shall see any products similar to 7th Sea for 4E. A shame.
tec-goblin 05-03-08, 04:23 AM	Alas Goblin I fear you and I are a bit of a dying breed. Those who like a little history in their fantasy. I don't think we shall see any products similar to 7th Sea for 4E. A shame. Look. For 3e there was AEG, Green Ronin and even WotC (with d20 Past). Adding to this various small publishers with pdfs, I think there was more than I could handle. So I remain optimist about 4e.
tec-goblin 05-13-08, 07:33 AM	Now that we have a d20 past forum, I think this should be moved there. It's not fully historical after all... Anyway, we are discussing on the naval battle rules on http://www.alderac.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=132&t=66917&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&start=25 We're going for ship stats that are slightly similar to character stats, what do you think?
Pyrate_Jib 05-15-08, 11:06 PM	Big fan of the ship to ship battle concept. I picked up some 3E source material including Skull and Bones and a supplement entitled "Corsair". The Arms and Equipment Guide had some ideas but I needed more. My dream is a version of D&D where you can play out a swashbuckling adventure as Roll-Play game (focus on "Role"), a ship board combat game, and a mass combat military game.
tec-goblin 06-22-08, 02:38 PM	Work is progressing... http://www.alderac.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=132&t=66917&p=860417#p860417 ;) There is also a playtest report near the end of the topic.
ORC_Nashira 06-22-08, 04:13 PM	Moved at VCL Request.
tec-goblin 06-23-08, 04:14 AM	Moved at VCL Request. Ok, no pro. Are you planning to reorganise differently the threads?
tec-goblin 06-28-08, 06:41 PM	Jyb, more is up on the forum, the draft of the final document is progressing. It has plenty of swordsman schools etc already :). And some adventure hooks as well (for many different worlds) :). http://www.alderac.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=132&t=66917&p=893573#p893573 The actual table of contents is like this: Credits 2 Introduction 4 Chapter One: Théah and its People 5 The world of Théah 5 The Era 5 History 5 Secret Societies and Cosmology 5 Théan Human 5 Feytouched (Théan Eladrin) 5 Avalon 6 Castille 6 Cathay 7 The Crescent Empire 7 Eisen 8 Oceans and Faraway Islands 8 Montaigne 9 Ussura 9 Vendel League 10 Vestenmannavnjar 10 Vodacce 11 Chapter Two: Beyond Théah 12 Sample Campaigns 12 High Fantasy 12 Historical 12 Syrneth Space Opera 12 Game Balance 12 Horror 13 Plane Travelling 13 Chapter Three: Rules for Heroes 14 Optional Rules 14 Action Points for Drama 14 Low Magic Setting 14 New Condition 14 New Skill 14 Craft (Intelligence or Dexterity) 14 Powers for Swashbucklers 15 Swashbuckling Rangers 15 New Feats 17 Swordsman Schools 17 Buslayevich 17 Cappuntina 18 Drexel 18 Finnegan 19 Rasmussen 19 Too Many Options? 19 Valroux 20 Yael 20 Zepeda 21 Paragon Paths 22 Epic Destinies (?) 22 Chapter Four: Tools of the Hero 23 New Weapons 23 Products of Superior Skill 24 Armor 24 Weapons 24 Magic Items 25 Weapons and Armor 25 Clothing 25 Potions 25 Tools 25 Artifacts 25 Chapter Five: Naval Combat 26 Rules of the Engagement 26 Sample Ships 27 Chapter Six: Théan Magic 28 Glamour 28 Laerdom 28 Porté 28 Sorte 28 Nacht 28 Scrying 28 Chapter Seven : Adversaries 29 Eladrin, Sidhe 29 Firebird 30 The Great Grey 31 Human, Théan 32 Living Rune 33 Mirror Ghost 34 Night 35 Ruin Monster 36 Schattenmensch 37 Sea Serpent 38 Siren, Théan 39 Thalusai 40 Unraveled 41 Appendix: Friends and Nemeses 42 Théan Personalities 42 Non-Théan Personalities 43 Any help will be appreciated!
Ogiwan 06-29-08, 05:26 PM	Man, 7th Sea/Swashbuckling Adventures kicked so much butt it wasn't even funny. The only downside was that SBA was really buggy, and needed a lot of houseruling to make it playable. I do say, though, if AEG came out with a 4e adaptation of Theah, I'd buy it in a heartbeat and play it 'till i died.
Pyrate_Jib 06-29-08, 11:55 PM	Man, 7th Sea/Swashbuckling Adventures kicked so much butt it wasn't even funny. The only downside was that SBA was really buggy, and needed a lot of houseruling to make it playable. I do say, though, if AEG came out with a 4e adaptation of Theah, I'd buy it in a heartbeat and play it 'till i died. Me too brother! Currently I am sitting the fence on 4E but that would swing it for me.
Holy_Beholder 06-30-08, 02:42 PM	I wouldn't use fourth edition for swashbuckling. Its too rules heavy, swashbuckling should be more fast and furious. Sometimes you just need to swing on a chandelier, land on a banister, slide down, then attack your opponent below. And if you miss you can pull the rug out from under him. 7th sea would work, as would Fudge. Fudge also covers ship combat pretty well, if you buy the actual book. The chapter on airplane/spaceship fighting actually works pretty well for ships. Massive wars are out though. Anything involving more than 30 ships to a team would take beyond 20 minutes a turn(for both people). Spirit of the Century would also work fairly well.
Ogiwan 06-30-08, 11:52 PM	I wouldn't use fourth edition for swashbuckling. Its too rules heavy, swashbuckling should be more fast and furious. You're saying 3.x is less rules heavy than 4e? I used 3.x for Swashbuckling, and (after a few houseruling and kitbashes) it worked fine. It's just that 4e would probably be easier to swashbuckle with.
jimthegray 07-01-08, 12:02 AM	You're saying 3.x is less rules heavy than 4e? I used 3.x for Swashbuckling, and (after a few houseruling and kitbashes) it worked fine. It's just that 4e would probably be easier to swashbuckle with. agreed also in 4th you can make a good swashbucker with any of the melee classes rogue ..obvious ranger ..flourintine warlord =.. chismatic leader fighter ..go light route and rapier and be the tougher swashbuckler
Pyrate_Jib 07-01-08, 12:58 AM	I liked how Swashbuckling Adventures handled 7th Sea d20. It was fast paced yet detailed. I also liked Northern Crown. If you like lite and easy try Savage Tales with either Pirates of the Crimson Sea or 50th Fathoms.
tec-goblin 07-01-08, 07:31 AM	4e is more cinematic and less heavy than 3.5 Still d20 modern was far more elegant, but less cinematic. I played a lot Swashbuckling Adventures, but at some point I grew tired of typos, bad playtesting, broken feats, things that couldn't play well with magic and a deteriorating quality in the rules in the supplements (you know you have to stop looking at the rules when you see a prestige class that starts its attack progression at +3). Around level 8, we moved the whole campaign to d20 modern with some variations and material from 3.5 and we kept our sanity at least until epic levels (where the general problem of 3e with epic levels was added to our weird mix of d20 modern and 3.5 and the system started showing effects of fatigue). 4e seems just MADE for swashbuckling. It is fast and furious, and heroes can do a bit of anything in terms of skills, which helps a lot (but, of course, it becomes an absolute nightmare if you want to play something call-of-cthuluesque)
Holy_Beholder 07-01-08, 08:03 AM	You're saying 3.x is less rules heavy than 4e? I used 3.x for Swashbuckling, and (after a few houseruling and kitbashes) it worked fine. It's just that 4e would probably be easier to swashbuckle with. I wouldn't swashbuckle with 3.x either. Sure fourth is somewhat cinematic, but its still not as fast and furious as it could be. Really, anything which busts out a map is going to turn swashbuckling into a tactical game, with people moving their speed then casting spells or swinging at people, as opposed to doing absurd acrobatics stunts that get the fight all over the place on the masts and riggings. The best rules for swashbuckling I have ever seen were the Fudge Fu rules, which were for cinematic martial arts, work with weapons, and were rules light and fun. It also had rules for fighting while drunk, which is practically an inevitability in a pirate game.
Ogiwan 07-01-08, 10:55 AM	I played a lot Swashbuckling Adventures, but at some point I grew tired of typos, bad playtesting, broken feats, things that couldn't play well with magic and a deteriorating quality in the rules in the supplements (you know you have to stop looking at the rules when you see a prestige class that starts its attack progression at +3). My experience as well.
tec-goblin 07-02-08, 07:35 AM	Really, anything which busts out a map is going to turn swashbuckling into a tactical game, with people moving their speed then casting spells or swinging at people, as opposed to doing absurd acrobatics stunts that get the fight all over the place on the masts and riggings. I do not agree there. My definition of "cinematics" has a very tactical sense of it. 7thSea too offered maps at the end of its GM's guide. I feel the action better when I can parry an enemy strike, interrupt an opponent who passes close with an opportunity attack, know where my ally is to defend or fight back to back, and of course also play in 3 dimensions, jumping on rails etc. I can see the trap of ignoring the 3rd dimension with a standard dnd game, but any DM that can imagine battles on masts can do likewise when playing with a map too. I have played boardings both with and without map. The "with" ones worked much better. People could know where the enemies are, could have a vision on "something else is happening on the ship", could move around multiple decks more easily etc. Of course, you have to map at least 2 decks and one level of masts to do correctly, and this requires some preparation.
tec-goblin 07-13-08, 09:53 AM	Rules for naval combat, as well as two new paragon paths and many ready to play ships are out in the latest release of the ebook (http://www.alderac.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=132&t=66917&p=897456#p897456): or go here (http://www.alderac.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=39&t=66917) where you can always find the latest version :). I have playtested a bit the naval combat, and I want more! :D
B4_life 07-13-08, 10:29 AM	Not bad at all... is the .docx the same as the PDF? I don't have vista...
tec-goblin 07-14-08, 04:28 AM	Not bad at all... is the .docx the same as the PDF? I don't have vista... Exactly the same. It's actually an Office 2007 file. You can open it with previous versions of Office if you use this (http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyID=941b3470-3ae9-4aee-8f43-c6bb74cd1466).
tec-goblin 10-05-08, 07:25 AM	Yam, we're finally in the beta! Pirates, cannons and adventures! Featuring new powers, alternative rules, over 40 new feats, two new paragon paths, many new monsters and NPCs and tons of new items. Here you can find anything from the stats of a Frigate to a rogue power with the name "Let Me Show You How". Designed as a lightweight addition to any DnD game that needs a bit more swashing and buckling, as well as a reinterpretation of the old 7thSea world to the new mechanics: use as much of this netbook as you want. You can find all here (http://www.alderac.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=132&t=66917): As always, your playtesting and feedback will be appreciated! We need some proofreading with the last chapters ;).
Pyrate_Jib 10-07-08, 11:28 PM	I downloaded the pdf and hope to pour over it while at work.