A loophole that makes DMs cry [Archive] - Wizards Community

A loophole that makes DMs cry [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Sinfire Titan
03-31-08, 01:57 PM Books required: SRD, Races of the Dragon, Complete Mage, Complete Arcane, Exemplars of Evil

Stats: Int:17+. All other stats are irrelevant. Except Con.

Flaws: Any two.
Alternate Class Features: Focused Specialist, and your choice on any others.
Feats needed to pull it off: Spell Mastery, Uncanny Forethought, Precocious Apprentice, Versatile Spellcaster, and either Improved Init or Scribe Scroll.

How it works:

Precocious Apprentice

Your master has shown you the basics of a spell beyond the normal limits of your experience and training.

Prerequisites: Int 15 or Cha 15, arcane spellcaster level 1

Benefit: Choose one 2nd-level spell from a school that is not barred to you. You can cast that spell once per day. In effect, you have an extra 2nd-level spell slot that must be used to cast the chosen spell, and cannot be used for any other purpose. If you cannot cast 2nd-level spells yet, you must succeed on a caster level check (DC 8) to successfully cast the spell; if you fail, you miscast the spell to no effect. Your caster level with the chosen spell is your normal caster level, even if this is insufficient to cast the spell under normal circumstances.

When you become able to cast 2nd-level spells, you lose the previous benefit described above. Instead, you simply have an extra 2nd-level spell slot, which you may use to prepare (or spontaneously cast, if you are a spontaneous caster) 2nd-level or lower spells as you normally would.

You also gain a +2 bonus on all Spellcraft checks.

Special: You can only take this feat as a 1st-level character.

Focused Specialist

Replaces: You lose one spell slot from each level of Wizard spells you can cast. Etc.

Benefit: You can prepare two additional spell slots of your specialty school per spell level each day. The extra spells are in addition to those normally granted to a specialist Wizard.

This benefit doesn't apply to spells gain from classes other than Wizard.

Ok, due to a loop hole in the wording of PA, a Focused Specialist Wizard with that feat loses the spell slot it grants and receives two spells of his specialty school in its place. Normally, you wouldn't be able to use that slot for anything but casting that one spell, but losing something is not using it, so fair play here. And due to the fact that you now have 2nd level spell slots that aren't granted by bonus spells, you can now cast them freely. And since they are not the slot created by PA, you don't have to make a caster level check to cast them. This is a loophole cause only by a literal interpretation of the English language, and one hell of a loophole. Why?

Versatile Spellcaster. By forgoing the two spell slots given by Focused Specialist, you gain a single slot one level higher than those two given up. And because of Focused Specialist, that slot is immediately replaced by two spells from your specialty school. Rinse, repeat, and viola, 9th level spell slots at 1st level without Pun-Pun loops. Problem though, you can't cast 9th level spells as a Human Wizard with an 18 Int score. And because of the feats required, it needs Human as the race. Oh well, you can still cast 7th level spells.

And one more thing. Because you can't normally prepare spells of that level, you use Uncanny Forethought to do that for you. With even a single 7th or 8th level spell in your spell book, you can, as a full-round action, cast that spell with the slots granted by Focused Specialist. For the extra funny part, the caster level of those spells is -1. So pick a spell that doesn't run off of caster level for what it does. Finger of Death is a perfect example. Nothing at 1st level can make that saving throw without a 20, and even if they do, 3d6-1 damage can kill them. The Power Words (Blind, Stun, Disable, Petrify) also make a great trick at this low of a level.

So have fun playing God with the game, as there are a number of spells that don't key off of your caster level of -1 to abuse at 1st level. Enjoy the slaughter!
Senevri
03-31-08, 04:13 PM Why the double post? (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=1000514)
*edit*
Oh, right (http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=15483437&postcount=21).
Callix
04-01-08, 07:26 AM You want 9th level spells? Just make him Old. +2 all mental, -3 all physical. And Meteor Swarm or Power Word: Kill at level 1.

Good find, and belongs here more than over at CO. May I be the first to say here, "gratz".
With-Motion
04-01-08, 03:01 PM Versatile Spellcaster. By forgoing the two spell slots given by Focused Specialist, you gain a single slot one level higher than those two given up.I'm pretty sure you're misinterpreting the feat here. As written:
You can use two spell slots of the same level to cast a spell you know that is one level higher. For example, a sorcerer with this feat can expend two 2nd-level spell slots to cast any 3rd-level spell he knows.
It allows you to cast a spell a level higher which you know, it doesn't actually grant a new spell known... I may be missing something, but I think the loophole would just end at level 2 spells.
Senevri
04-02-08, 05:05 AM Needs Extra Spell, then.
But, even as a "cast two second-level spells at 1st level" it's plenty powerful.
The_Mad_Linguist
04-02-08, 06:39 AM More spells known?

Doesn't arcane disciple do that?
Sinfire Titan
04-02-08, 04:31 PM Needs Extra Spell, then.
But, even as a "cast two second-level spells at 1st level" it's plenty powerful.

DCFS+Elder Evils=Infinite Spells/Day.
TheDragonmaster
04-04-08, 11:56 AM What is DCFS?
The_Mad_Linguist
04-04-08, 06:15 PM Dark Chaos Feat Shuffle, most likely.
Bergtann
04-05-08, 05:12 PM Versatile Spellcaster does not give you any spell slots, it allows you to cast spells without using a spell slot.

Also, by text, it can't be used to cast spells higher than you can cast by normal means.
TheDragonmaster
04-07-08, 04:33 PM Dark Chaos Feat Shuffle, most likely.
Ok... I know that as Abyssal Retraining...
Bergtann
04-07-08, 05:41 PM You can use Versatile Spellcaster to break the Ultimate Magus. Or even wizard x/Beguiler 1.

You can sack wizard slots to cast beguiler spells. Versatile Spellcaster only checks if you can cast that level of spells "normally", not that you can cast it with your spont class. So if you can cast it as a wizard, that satisfies the VS restriction.

A beguiler knows all the spells of a level as soon as he can cast a spell of that level. There are many ways to add a spell known. So if you add a 9th level spell known, it unlocks all the 9th level Beguiler spells.

Versatile Spellcaster lets you cast them without 9th level beguiler slots, by saccing two 8th level slots from your wizard side. Note that you need to be able cast 9th level spells anyway, so not totaly broken.

Jameswilliamoogles discovery.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Sinfire Titan 03-31-08, 01:57 PM	Books required: SRD, Races of the Dragon, Complete Mage, Complete Arcane, Exemplars of Evil Stats: Int:17+. All other stats are irrelevant. Except Con. Flaws: Any two. Alternate Class Features: Focused Specialist, and your choice on any others. Feats needed to pull it off: Spell Mastery, Uncanny Forethought, Precocious Apprentice, Versatile Spellcaster, and either Improved Init or Scribe Scroll. How it works: Precocious Apprentice Your master has shown you the basics of a spell beyond the normal limits of your experience and training. Prerequisites: Int 15 or Cha 15, arcane spellcaster level 1 Benefit: Choose one 2nd-level spell from a school that is not barred to you. You can cast that spell once per day. In effect, you have an extra 2nd-level spell slot that must be used to cast the chosen spell, and cannot be used for any other purpose. If you cannot cast 2nd-level spells yet, you must succeed on a caster level check (DC 8) to successfully cast the spell; if you fail, you miscast the spell to no effect. Your caster level with the chosen spell is your normal caster level, even if this is insufficient to cast the spell under normal circumstances. When you become able to cast 2nd-level spells, you lose the previous benefit described above. Instead, you simply have an extra 2nd-level spell slot, which you may use to prepare (or spontaneously cast, if you are a spontaneous caster) 2nd-level or lower spells as you normally would. You also gain a +2 bonus on all Spellcraft checks. Special: You can only take this feat as a 1st-level character. Focused Specialist Replaces: You lose one spell slot from each level of Wizard spells you can cast. Etc. Benefit: You can prepare two additional spell slots of your specialty school per spell level each day. The extra spells are in addition to those normally granted to a specialist Wizard. This benefit doesn't apply to spells gain from classes other than Wizard. Ok, due to a loop hole in the wording of PA, a Focused Specialist Wizard with that feat loses the spell slot it grants and receives two spells of his specialty school in its place. Normally, you wouldn't be able to use that slot for anything but casting that one spell, but losing something is not using it, so fair play here. And due to the fact that you now have 2nd level spell slots that aren't granted by bonus spells, you can now cast them freely. And since they are not the slot created by PA, you don't have to make a caster level check to cast them. This is a loophole cause only by a literal interpretation of the English language, and one hell of a loophole. Why? Versatile Spellcaster. By forgoing the two spell slots given by Focused Specialist, you gain a single slot one level higher than those two given up. And because of Focused Specialist, that slot is immediately replaced by two spells from your specialty school. Rinse, repeat, and viola, 9th level spell slots at 1st level without Pun-Pun loops. Problem though, you can't cast 9th level spells as a Human Wizard with an 18 Int score. And because of the feats required, it needs Human as the race. Oh well, you can still cast 7th level spells. And one more thing. Because you can't normally prepare spells of that level, you use Uncanny Forethought to do that for you. With even a single 7th or 8th level spell in your spell book, you can, as a full-round action, cast that spell with the slots granted by Focused Specialist. For the extra funny part, the caster level of those spells is -1. So pick a spell that doesn't run off of caster level for what it does. Finger of Death is a perfect example. Nothing at 1st level can make that saving throw without a 20, and even if they do, 3d6-1 damage can kill them. The Power Words (Blind, Stun, Disable, Petrify) also make a great trick at this low of a level. So have fun playing God with the game, as there are a number of spells that don't key off of your caster level of -1 to abuse at 1st level. Enjoy the slaughter!
Senevri 03-31-08, 04:13 PM	Why the double post? (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=1000514) edit Oh, right (http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=15483437&postcount=21).
Callix 04-01-08, 07:26 AM	You want 9th level spells? Just make him Old. +2 all mental, -3 all physical. And Meteor Swarm or Power Word: Kill at level 1. Good find, and belongs here more than over at CO. May I be the first to say here, "gratz".
With-Motion 04-01-08, 03:01 PM	Versatile Spellcaster. By forgoing the two spell slots given by Focused Specialist, you gain a single slot one level higher than those two given up.I'm pretty sure you're misinterpreting the feat here. As written: You can use two spell slots of the same level to cast a spell you know that is one level higher. For example, a sorcerer with this feat can expend two 2nd-level spell slots to cast any 3rd-level spell he knows. It allows you to cast a spell a level higher which you know, it doesn't actually grant a new spell known... I may be missing something, but I think the loophole would just end at level 2 spells.
Senevri 04-02-08, 05:05 AM	Needs Extra Spell, then. But, even as a "cast two second-level spells at 1st level" it's plenty powerful.
The_Mad_Linguist 04-02-08, 06:39 AM	More spells known? Doesn't arcane disciple do that?
Sinfire Titan 04-02-08, 04:31 PM	Needs Extra Spell, then. But, even as a "cast two second-level spells at 1st level" it's plenty powerful. DCFS+Elder Evils=Infinite Spells/Day.
TheDragonmaster 04-04-08, 11:56 AM	What is DCFS?
The_Mad_Linguist 04-04-08, 06:15 PM	Dark Chaos Feat Shuffle, most likely.
Bergtann 04-05-08, 05:12 PM	Versatile Spellcaster does not give you any spell slots, it allows you to cast spells without using a spell slot. Also, by text, it can't be used to cast spells higher than you can cast by normal means.
TheDragonmaster 04-07-08, 04:33 PM	Dark Chaos Feat Shuffle, most likely. Ok... I know that as Abyssal Retraining...
Bergtann 04-07-08, 05:41 PM	You can use Versatile Spellcaster to break the Ultimate Magus. Or even wizard x/Beguiler 1. You can sack wizard slots to cast beguiler spells. Versatile Spellcaster only checks if you can cast that level of spells "normally", not that you can cast it with your spont class. So if you can cast it as a wizard, that satisfies the VS restriction. A beguiler knows all the spells of a level as soon as he can cast a spell of that level. There are many ways to add a spell known. So if you add a 9th level spell known, it unlocks all the 9th level Beguiler spells. Versatile Spellcaster lets you cast them without 9th level beguiler slots, by saccing two 8th level slots from your wizard side. Note that you need to be able cast 9th level spells anyway, so not totaly broken. Jameswilliamoogles discovery.