A quick question [Archive] - Wizards Community

A quick question [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
trappedslider
05-31-07, 10:46 PM One of my friends is converting the star wars d20 stuff into his favorite system and was wondering if its alright for him to post it online at another forum..well more like keep posting his conversions.
Ranger REG
06-01-07, 02:19 AM One of my friends is converting the star wars d20 stuff into his favorite system and was wondering if its alright for him to post it online at another forum..well more like keep posting his conversions.
Is he using the material straight from a copyrighted source or just the concept/idea based on those copyrighted source?

If the former, I'd rather you wouldn't, else you may infringe on WotC's copyrighted material. If the latter, it's okay.
danzig138
06-01-07, 04:12 PM If the former, I'd rather you wouldn't,

Congrats on the job with WotC Ranger REG.

As for the question - it probably isn't legal, but I imagine it's one of those things that probably isn't a big deal unless someone in a position of authority tells you not to (like someone actually from WotC, Lucasarts/film/wahtever, or whoever runs the forum on which the conversions are posted).
trappedslider
06-01-07, 05:17 PM The other issue is i'm not sure if he's converting the d20 star wars or the older d6 one.....and the forum is the GURPS forum
i_am_some_guy
06-04-07, 03:25 PM "fan fiction" is okay; espeically if it's not for sale or will have no impact on any published work.

House-ruling up a game system is also okay as long as it has no impact on any published work.

Reproducing large amounts of copyrighted material on a site is not okay. Using segments to quote to support a point is okay.

Generally worst case scenario is you get a "cease and desist" request from someone's lawyer. If you comply usually the issue stops there.

Copyright law is a bit sticky. Some folks think some stuff is covered by the law when it's really not. Some folks think they're okay when they're not. The final arbiter is a judge and the only way to have him adjudicate it is for someone to file against you.

This is a big issue with some folks... like what's'his'name that did Palladium.... he and his wife threatened to sue anyone that posted any modification rules for any of their game systems to D20. Pretty aggressively too. Honestly, 90% of the crap they were yelling about woulnd't have been supported in court; but the fear of being taken to court had a lot of folks comply.

And, there you have it. All someone has to do is threaten to take you to court. Generally that's enough for some folks. Kind of like the bully on the playground....

Now, if you're concerned enough you could share what you have with WOTC's legal department and ask them for permission to publish it or consult a lawyer on your own.
trappedslider
06-04-07, 03:39 PM the big thing is I'm not sure if its from the d20 or the old d6 stock
Ranger REG
06-05-07, 03:41 AM As for the question - it probably isn't legal, but I imagine it's one of those things that probably isn't a big deal unless someone in a position of authority tells you not to (like someone actually from WotC, Lucasarts/film/wahtever, or whoever runs the forum on which the conversions are posted).
So, your position is to allow them to post it up anyway and wait for the nice letter from WotC's attorney.

It's the equivalent of me taking your car and waiting for you to catch up with me to tell me I can't drive it anymore. :P

Someone got it right, copyright is a real sticky issue, one should consult with a lawyer first.
i_am_some_guy
06-05-07, 11:41 AM Someone got it right....

Someguy, but thanks :D
Nellisir
06-07-07, 10:45 AM The core question is, is he posting stuff that eliminates the need for the core rulebook?

Fan adaptations, conversions, and new material are generally OK with gaming companies - witness pretty much any gaming forum. Simply copying material is not OK.

This is not "legal" advice, just common sense.
danzig138
06-08-07, 10:28 AM So, your position is to allow them to post it up anyway and wait for the nice letter from WotC's attorney.

It's the equivalent of me taking your car and waiting for you to catch up with me to tell me I can't drive it anymore. :P

Someone got it right, copyright is a real sticky issue, one should consult with a lawyer first.
Don't be an ass.

My position is that conversions for differing game systems have been online as long as gamers have had access to the internet. My position is that conversions are perfectly fine until someone in an official capacity (in other words, not internet blow hards) tells you otherwise; like Palladium and TSR does/did.

The core question is, is he posting stuff that eliminates the need for the core rulebook?

Fan adaptations, conversions, and new material are generally OK with gaming companies - witness pretty much any gaming forum. Simply copying material is not OK.

This is not "legal" advice, just common sense. Exactly. I suppose I misunderstood the first post, but generally, when I tihnk of a conversion for another system, I don't think of huge swaths of the core text being placed on line. I think of the conversion rules being online - generally some kind of document with a buttload of stats that requires you to consult the original text for context.

If the guy is reprinting large chunks of the original text along with conversion notes, then that's not what I'm thinking of.
trappedslider
06-08-07, 09:05 PM it jsut appears to be stats expressed in the GURPS d6 system along with write ups of aliens expressed in the same way
Ranger REG
06-09-07, 03:23 AM Don't be an ass.
Fine. Be like that. :nonono:
spyone
06-09-07, 03:36 AM It sounds to me like what he's doing is legal.

But personally, I wouldn't stand too close to him, just in case. :)

Basicly, I try to play by these two rules when doing such things:
1) Don't play near the cliff. If crossing the line would be Really Bad(tm) for you, then why see how far you can push before you're actually across it?
2) Being right isn't always a good defense. Any time you find yourself explaining things to a judge, things have not gone well for you. Even if you are confidant the judge will take your side, it still was not a good day (as, for example, you had to be in court instead of gaming/fishing/making babies). Thus, it is best not to anger folks who have the power, money, and inclination to haul you into court over what you've done, even if you are sure the judge will side with you.

I do admire the folks who stand up for their (and our) rights, rather than keeping their heads down. Like when 2 Live Crew went to court to defend their right to perform their songs in front of an audience of people over 18, or when they went to court to firmly establish their right to record a parody without permission from the copyright holder (and in fact, over the copyright holder's objection), but I try not to recommend to folks a course of action that may be costly and stressful.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
trappedslider 05-31-07, 10:46 PM	One of my friends is converting the star wars d20 stuff into his favorite system and was wondering if its alright for him to post it online at another forum..well more like keep posting his conversions.
Ranger REG 06-01-07, 02:19 AM	One of my friends is converting the star wars d20 stuff into his favorite system and was wondering if its alright for him to post it online at another forum..well more like keep posting his conversions. Is he using the material straight from a copyrighted source or just the concept/idea based on those copyrighted source? If the former, I'd rather you wouldn't, else you may infringe on WotC's copyrighted material. If the latter, it's okay.
danzig138 06-01-07, 04:12 PM	If the former, I'd rather you wouldn't, Congrats on the job with WotC Ranger REG. As for the question - it probably isn't legal, but I imagine it's one of those things that probably isn't a big deal unless someone in a position of authority tells you not to (like someone actually from WotC, Lucasarts/film/wahtever, or whoever runs the forum on which the conversions are posted).
trappedslider 06-01-07, 05:17 PM	The other issue is i'm not sure if he's converting the d20 star wars or the older d6 one.....and the forum is the GURPS forum
i_am_some_guy 06-04-07, 03:25 PM	"fan fiction" is okay; espeically if it's not for sale or will have no impact on any published work. House-ruling up a game system is also okay as long as it has no impact on any published work. Reproducing large amounts of copyrighted material on a site is not okay. Using segments to quote to support a point is okay. Generally worst case scenario is you get a "cease and desist" request from someone's lawyer. If you comply usually the issue stops there. Copyright law is a bit sticky. Some folks think some stuff is covered by the law when it's really not. Some folks think they're okay when they're not. The final arbiter is a judge and the only way to have him adjudicate it is for someone to file against you. This is a big issue with some folks... like what's'his'name that did Palladium.... he and his wife threatened to sue anyone that posted any modification rules for any of their game systems to D20. Pretty aggressively too. Honestly, 90% of the crap they were yelling about woulnd't have been supported in court; but the fear of being taken to court had a lot of folks comply. And, there you have it. All someone has to do is threaten to take you to court. Generally that's enough for some folks. Kind of like the bully on the playground.... Now, if you're concerned enough you could share what you have with WOTC's legal department and ask them for permission to publish it or consult a lawyer on your own.
trappedslider 06-04-07, 03:39 PM	the big thing is I'm not sure if its from the d20 or the old d6 stock
Ranger REG 06-05-07, 03:41 AM	As for the question - it probably isn't legal, but I imagine it's one of those things that probably isn't a big deal unless someone in a position of authority tells you not to (like someone actually from WotC, Lucasarts/film/wahtever, or whoever runs the forum on which the conversions are posted). So, your position is to allow them to post it up anyway and wait for the nice letter from WotC's attorney. It's the equivalent of me taking your car and waiting for you to catch up with me to tell me I can't drive it anymore. :P Someone got it right, copyright is a real sticky issue, one should consult with a lawyer first.
i_am_some_guy 06-05-07, 11:41 AM	Someone got it right.... Someguy, but thanks :D
Nellisir 06-07-07, 10:45 AM	The core question is, is he posting stuff that eliminates the need for the core rulebook? Fan adaptations, conversions, and new material are generally OK with gaming companies - witness pretty much any gaming forum. Simply copying material is not OK. This is not "legal" advice, just common sense.
danzig138 06-08-07, 10:28 AM	So, your position is to allow them to post it up anyway and wait for the nice letter from WotC's attorney. It's the equivalent of me taking your car and waiting for you to catch up with me to tell me I can't drive it anymore. :P Someone got it right, copyright is a real sticky issue, one should consult with a lawyer first. Don't be an ass. My position is that conversions for differing game systems have been online as long as gamers have had access to the internet. My position is that conversions are perfectly fine until someone in an official capacity (in other words, not internet blow hards) tells you otherwise; like Palladium and TSR does/did. The core question is, is he posting stuff that eliminates the need for the core rulebook? Fan adaptations, conversions, and new material are generally OK with gaming companies - witness pretty much any gaming forum. Simply copying material is not OK. This is not "legal" advice, just common sense. Exactly. I suppose I misunderstood the first post, but generally, when I tihnk of a conversion for another system, I don't think of huge swaths of the core text being placed on line. I think of the conversion rules being online - generally some kind of document with a buttload of stats that requires you to consult the original text for context. If the guy is reprinting large chunks of the original text along with conversion notes, then that's not what I'm thinking of.
trappedslider 06-08-07, 09:05 PM	it jsut appears to be stats expressed in the GURPS d6 system along with write ups of aliens expressed in the same way
Ranger REG 06-09-07, 03:23 AM	Don't be an ass. Fine. Be like that. :nonono:
spyone 06-09-07, 03:36 AM	It sounds to me like what he's doing is legal. But personally, I wouldn't stand too close to him, just in case. :) Basicly, I try to play by these two rules when doing such things: 1) Don't play near the cliff. If crossing the line would be Really Bad(tm) for you, then why see how far you can push before you're actually across it? 2) Being right isn't always a good defense. Any time you find yourself explaining things to a judge, things have not gone well for you. Even if you are confidant the judge will take your side, it still was not a good day (as, for example, you had to be in court instead of gaming/fishing/making babies). Thus, it is best not to anger folks who have the power, money, and inclination to haul you into court over what you've done, even if you are sure the judge will side with you. I do admire the folks who stand up for their (and our) rights, rather than keeping their heads down. Like when 2 Live Crew went to court to defend their right to perform their songs in front of an audience of people over 18, or when they went to court to firmly establish their right to record a parody without permission from the copyright holder (and in fact, over the copyright holder's objection), but I try not to recommend to folks a course of action that may be costly and stressful.