Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Mortavier Shadewalk 11-18-07, 12:21 PM	This is my interperatation of Altair, the main character of Assassin's Creed. The Player's Handbook and Complete Scoundral were all that I used in building him. Challenge Rating is one lower because of his low armor class when not fighting defensively. Critique is welcome. Altair, Master Assassin Male Human Rogue 7/Fighter 8 Hit Dice: 8d6+7d10+45 (108 hp) Initiative: +4 Speed: 30 ft. AC: 25 (+4 Dex, +11 class) touch 24, flat-footed 25 Base Attack/Grapple: +13/+16 Attack: longsword +17 melee (1d8+4 19-20/x2), or dagger +19 melee (1d4+3 19-20/x2), or sleeve blade +16 melee (1d4+1 19-20/x2) or dagger +17 ranged (1d4+1 19-20/x2) Full Attack: longsword +17/+12/+7 melee (1d8+4 19-20/x2), or dagger +19/+14/+9 melee (1d4+3 19-20/x2), or sleeve blade +16/+11/+6 melee (1d4+1 19-20/x2) or dagger +17 ranged (1d4+1 19-20/x2) Space/Reach: 5 ft./5 ft. Special Abilities: sneak attack +4d6 Special Qualities: evasion, improved uncanny dodge, trapfinding, trap sense +2 Saves: Fort +10, Ref +12, Will +6 Abilities: Str 13, Dex 19, Con 16, Int 16, Wis 14, Cha 15 Skills: Balance +16, Bluff +18, Climb +20, Diplomacy +8, Gather Information +12, Handle Animal +8, Hide +14, Intimidate +14, Jump +18, Listen +9, Move Silently +14, Ride +14, Sense Motive +6, Slight of Hand +16, Spot +9, Tumble +13 Skill Tricks: Leaping Climber, Never Outnumbered, Nimble Charge, Wall Jumper Feats: Agile Athlete, Combat Expertise, Combat Reflexes*, Daredevil Athlete, Deadly Defense, Endurance, Mounted Combat, Power Attack*, Ride-By Attack*, Skill Focus (climb), Weapon Finesse (dagger)* * Bonus Feat Alignment: Lawful Neutral Challenge Rating: 14 Possessions: +3 longsword, +2 dagger, masterwork sleeve blade, daggers (8), breaker gauntlets (+2 bonus on Grapple checks), white assassin’s robes (act as padded armor) (All of the enhancement bonuses to equipment are non-magical in nature.) Combat Altair fights only when he has no other means of accomplishing his mission. He much prefers to strike from the shadows. When he does have to fight, he uses a combination of full defense, combat expertise, deadly defense, combat reflexes and improved uncanny dodge to keep himself alive and cut his way through to freedom. Skill tricks, agile athlete, daredevil athlete, deadly defense, and sleeve blades all appear in the Complete Scoundrel supplement. The sleeve blade is a hidden weapon.
Aryxbez 11-22-07, 12:09 AM	Truth be told, he could technically even be half that level, as he is pretty much fighting 1st or so level NPC's. Also weapon finesse applies to all weapons that are light and finessable, not just one anymore. Sleeve blade, the way that dagger of a weapon functions, is pretty much a Punching dagger, as can't really disarm someone of it, and he can hide it. I think he is very, very weak for his CR, Sneak attack is his only way of doing damage, he would easily get hit by anything close to this level. I don't mean just the first and 2nd attack, I mean if he gets full-attacked, every attack is pretty much going to hit him. Otherwise looks to be pretty nifty, skill tricks sound good, just think his level is probably a lot lower. for a game like this, I would personally use the Injury (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/adventuring/injury.htm) HP variant.
Mortavier Shadewalk 11-23-07, 10:46 AM	Truth be told, he could technically even be half that level, as he is pretty much fighting 1st or so level NPC's. However all the things he can do proficiently outside of combat means he needs to be higher level. Also weapon finesse applies to all weapons that are light and finessable, not just one anymore. Edited. Sleeve blade, the way that dagger of a weapon functions, is pretty much a Punching dagger, as can't really disarm someone of it, and he can hide it. As said above, the sleeve blade is stated in Complete Scoundral. I think he is very, very weak for his CR, Sneak attack is his only way of doing damage, he would easily get hit by anything close to this level. I don't mean just the first and 2nd attack, I mean if he gets full-attacked, every attack is pretty much going to hit him. I discussed this with people on another site, we agreed that both he and his opponents would use the class defense varient. for a game like this, I would personally use the Injury (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/adventuring/injury.htm) HP variant. That just doesn't seem to fit as well as hit points do. Altair was never in danger of failing a damage save, and he killed his opponents through larger amounts of damage, not them taking enough to fail a save.
black_panther 11-23-07, 02:40 PM	Truth be told, he could technically even be half that level, as he is pretty much fighting 1st or so level NPC's. Also weapon finesse applies to all weapons that are light and finessable, not just one anymore. Sleeve blade, the way that dagger of a weapon functions, is pretty much a Punching dagger, as can't really disarm someone of it, and he can hide it. I think he is very, very weak for his CR, Sneak attack is his only way of doing damage, he would easily get hit by anything close to this level. I don't mean just the first and 2nd attack, I mean if he gets full-attacked, every attack is pretty much going to hit him. Otherwise looks to be pretty nifty, skill tricks sound good, just think his level is probably a lot lower. for a game like this, I would personally use the Injury (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/adventuring/injury.htm) HP variant. But hes a pretty sick fighter he can take on like 9 guards
Leress 11-24-07, 04:14 AM	But hes a pretty sick fighter he can take on like 9 guards Who are pretty much level 1 warriors and that equals to about a CR 5 encounter.
Delfedd 11-29-07, 01:17 AM	You gave him mounted combat but not improved feint? I'm pretty sure you could do Altair with Rogue 5/Fighter 2. These feats seem unnecissary. Ride by attack, mounted combat, skill focus (climb). Altair seems like the type not to take pretty useless feats like Agile athlete. (which i don't think is a feat... could it be agile and athletic?). Daring athlete looks fun, but again, I think that Altair is more combat oriented. He also Needs improved feint. Also, the gloves should give a +2 on climb checks. Basically altair's strategy (like his strategy in the game) is to fight defensively and make bluff checks to gain an advantage on one of his opponents, and then striking with his sneak attack. Altair is based around the sneak attack. If he can't get a feint (counter) in a fight against many enemies, he won't survive untill the fight's end.
Mortavier Shadewalk 11-29-07, 09:39 AM	You gave him mounted combat but not improved feint? I saw this. It will be in the final version I'll post here when I get feedback on some revisions I've made. I'm pretty sure you could do Altair with Rogue 5/Fighter 2. These feats seem unnecissary. Ride by attack, mounted combat, skill focus (climb). Altair seems like the type not to take pretty useless feats like Agile athlete. (which i don't think is a feat... could it be agile and athletic?). Daring athlete looks fun, but again, I think that Altair is more combat oriented. He also Needs improved feint. Not so. Altair specifically uses the Ride-by Attack feat when he attacks while riding. Agile Athlete is probably the most important feat in the entire build, allowing him to make Dex the key Ability instead of Str on Jump and Climb checks. Daring Athlete is going to be removed for Improved Feint. I'm not quite sure how I missed that one. As it says above, Agile Athlete appears in Complete Scoundrel. Also, the gloves should give a +2 on climb checks. His score isn't high enough for you yet? Basically altair's strategy (like his strategy in the game) is to fight defensively and make bluff checks to gain an advantage on one of his opponents, and then striking with his sneak attack. I'm glad we agree on that. Altair is based around the sneak attack. If he can't get a feint (counter) in a fight against many enemies, he won't survive untill the fight's end. Really? I swung hard and fast at my enemies in more than one fight and dropped all of them. Hell, sent groups of them running away in fear. I'll say this, in the final build, he'll have more sneak attack damage.
Ragitsu 11-30-07, 04:11 AM	I'll try my hand at statting up Altair with d20 Modern / d20 Past and Urban Arcana. I don't have stats for the sleeve blade, but I think i'll do well otherwise.
Ragitsu 12-01-07, 02:42 AM	http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y46/AzarKing/Assassin_s_Creed__Altair___by_adoni.jpg Altair (Assassin's Creed (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assassin's_Creed)) Male Human Fast Hero 4 / Infiltrator 2 / Charismatic Hero 4 / Strong Hero 6; CR 16 Medium humanoid (human); HD 6d8 + 4d6 + 6d8 + 48; hp 119; Mas 16; Init +4; Spd 30 ft.; Defense 25 (+4 Dex, +11 class); BAB +12; Grap +15*; Longsword +16/+11/+6 (1d8+4, 19-20/x2) Knife +19/+14/+9 (1d4+4, 19-20/x2) Thrown knife +16/+11/+6 (1d4+1, 19-20/x2) AL Hashshashin, Law; SV Fort +9, Ref +13, Will +6; AP 8; Rep +3; Str 13, Dex 19, Con 16, Int 16, Wis 14, Cha 15. Occupation: Squire (Climb, Jump, Ride) Skills: Balance +13, Bluff +14, Climb +18, Gather Information +12, Handle Animal +8, Hide +14, Intimidate +14, Jump +18, Knowledge (Streetwise) +10, Knowledge (Tactics) +10, Listen +6, Move Silently +13, Read/Write Arabic, Read/Write Olde English, Ride +14, Sleight of Hand +13, Speak Arabic, Speak Olde English, Spot +6, Tumble +13 Feats: Agile Riposte, Archaic Weapons Proficiency, Armor Proficiency (Light), Blind-Fight, Brawl**, Combat Expertise, Combat Reflexes, Dodge, Endurance, Heroic Surge**, Improved Feint, Low Profile, Mounted Combat, Power Attack, Precise Strike, Quick Draw**, Ride-by-Attack, Simple Weapons Proficiency, Streetfighting**, Weapon Finesse (Knife) Talents: Fast -> Evasion, Uncanny Dodge I Infiltrator -> Sweep, Improvised Implements Charismatic -> Charm (Males), Fast-Talk Strong -> Melee Smash, Improved Melee Smash, Advanced Melee Smash Possessions: White assassin's robe with hood, longsword (Mastercraft +3 to hit), knife (Mastercraft +3 to hit), concealed carry holster with ten knives, breaker gauntlets* (+2 bonus to Grapple checks) --- **Bonus feat I don't have any of the various devices you listed - but i'll get around to it after I read Complete Scoundrel. I was also considering swapping Advanced Melee Smash for Extreme Effort or Ignore Hardness. Ideas? I chose Squire to represent his physical training, which seems to fit a bit more thematically than Athlete. Also, it took another level, but I feel it is close to the character in it's own way. Here (http://www.12tomidnight.com/d20modernsrd/Home.php) is the source I used, as well as Urban Arcana (http://www.dominion-x.net/d20-msrd/).
Mortavier Shadewalk 12-02-07, 09:57 PM	I haven't worked with Modern much, so I'm not one to comment on the mechanics, but just looking at the ratios, I'd say make infiltrator a little higher at the expense of strong hero or charismatic hero. He's neither phenominaly strong or much of a "people person." Looks good otherwise.
trent12345409 12-02-07, 10:55 PM	I think he might need some levels in ASSASSIN. I just makes sense. His acrobatics and things make up for his poor combat also,
Ragitsu 12-02-07, 11:30 PM	I haven't worked with Modern much, so I'm not one to comment on the mechanics, but just looking at the ratios, I'd say make infiltrator a little higher at the expense of strong hero or charismatic hero. He's neither phenominaly strong or much of a "people person." Looks good otherwise. Since there is no "Rogue" class in d20 Modern, I added Charismatic Hero levels to net him Bluff/Gather Information/Intimidate. Strong Hero levels were for Climb/Jump and the full BAB. You don't need a high Strength score to have Strong Hero levels though -> many times i've played characters that started out relatively weak (Str 10 or 12) and picked up levels to get Melee Smash. I was thinking to add 2 levels of Infiltrator and take out 2 Charismatic, but that would cut down on his social skills. One way for him to get Sneak Attack is with the Tracer class...grants Hide/Move Silently, full BAB, d8 HD and abilities that allow faster movement while sneaking. The problem is that it requires a level or three in Dedicated Hero, and i'm unsure if the Target Species (Human) fits him.
elliott20 12-04-07, 10:48 AM	To me, Altair seems like he would be a good mix of Swordsage from Tome of Battle mixed in with Ranger for some favored enemy ranks and tracking.
Mortavier Shadewalk 12-04-07, 11:32 AM	Swordsage Doubtful. I modified the assassin prestige class and made it more of a fighter. I think this works pretty well, if you all think it's better then my first, I'll integrate it into the first post. Hashshashin The Hashshashin are a sect of warriors named after the belief that the ate the drug known as hashish to transform them into inhuman warriors before battle. Feared for their spectacular murders in full sight of the public, they played the Crusaders and the Saracens off of one another in attempts to bring peace to the Holy Land. Deadly warriors, they were trained in all manner of close quarters combat. Despite reports that they would jump off parapets to their death at their masters command, they almost never undertook suicide missions. Rare was it when a hashshashin attacked with no hope of escape. Trained extensively in the use of the dagger, they disdained the use of poison as cowardly, and preferred close combat to ranged weapons, the better to inspire fear. At the time of the Crusade led by King Richard, the sect was led by Al Mualim, known to outsiders as “the Old Man of the Mountain” and made their headquarters in the castle overlooking Masyaf. At this period they were embroiled in a deadly battle with the Templars over a treasure known as The Piece of Eden. Hit Die: d6 Requirements To qualify to become a Hashshashin, a character must fulfill all of the following criteria. Alignment: Any Lawful BAB: +3 Skills: Bluff +5, Hide +5, Move Silently +5 Class Skills The Hashshashin’s class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Balance (Dex), Bluff (Cha), Climb (Str), Diplomacy (Cha), Disable Device (Int), Disguise (Cha), Escape Artist (Dex), Gather Information (Cha), Hide (Dex), Intimidate (Cha), Move Silently (Dex), Open Lock (Dex), Perform (Cha), Ride (Dex), Search (Int), Sense Motive (Wis), Sleight of Hand (Dex), Spot (Wis), Tumble (Dex), Use Rope (Dex) Skill Points at 1st Level: (6+Int modifier)x4 Skill Points at Each Additional Level: 6+Int modifier Level BAB Fort Ref Will Special 1 +1 +0 +2 +0 Keeper of the Creed, Sneak Attack +1d6, Death Attack 2 +2 +0 +3 +0 Uncanny Dodge, Weapon Focus (dagger) 3 +3 +1 +3 +1 Sneak Attack +2d6 4 +4 +1 +4 +1 Bonus Feat 5 +5 +1 +4 +1 Improved Uncanny Dodge, Sneak Attack +3d6 6 +6 +2 +5 +2 Bonus Feat 7 +7 +2 +5 +2 Sneak Attack +4d6 8 +8 +2 +6 +2 Bonus Feat 9 +9 +3 +6 +3 Sneak Attack +5d6 10 +10 +3 +7 +3 Bonus Feat Class Features All of the following are class features of the Hashshashin prestige class: Keeper of the Creed: (This is going to be a code of conduct. I’ll fill this in later when I can find what the three rules of the creed are. I think they are along the lines of 1. Kill no innocents, 2. Strike from the shadows and 3. Bring no danger upon the brotherhood. If someone can confirm these, I’ll modify this.) Sneak Attack: This is exactly like the rogue ability of the same name. The extra damage dealt increases by +1d6 every other level (1st, 3rd, 5th, 7th, and 9th). If a hashshashin gets a sneak attack bonus from another source the bonuses on damage stack. Death Attack: If a hashshashin studies his victim for 3 rounds and then makes a sneak attack with a melee weapon that successfully deals damage, the sneak attack has the additional effect of possibly either paralyzing or killing the target (assassin’s choice). While studying the victim, the hashshashin can undertake other actions so long as his attention stays focused on the target and the target does not detect the assassin or recognize him as an enemy. If the victim of such an attack fails a Fortitude save (DC 10 + the hashshashin’s class level + the hashshashin’s Int modifier) against the kill effect, she dies. If the saving throw fails against the paralysis effect, the victim is rendered helpless and unable to act for 1d6 rounds plus 1 round per level of the hashshashin. If the victim’s saving throw succeeds, the attack is just a normal sneak attack. Once the hashshashin has completed the 3 rounds of study, he must make the death attack within the next 3 rounds. If a death attack is attempted and fails (the victim makes her save) or if the hashshashin does not launch the attack within 3 rounds of completing the study, 3 new rounds of study are required before he can attempt another death attack. Uncanny Dodge: Starting at 2nd level, a hashshashin retains his Dexterity bonus to AC (if any) regardless of being caught flat-footed or struck by an invisible attacker. (He still loses any Dexterity bonus to AC if immobilized.) If a character gains uncanny dodge from a second class the character automatically gains improved uncanny dodge (see below). Weapon Focus (Dagger): The favored weapon of the Hashshashin is the dagger and the train in it extensively. At 2nd level the hashshashin gains Weapon Focus (Dagger) as a bonus feat. Bonus Feat: The hashshashin relies on his intense martial training to kill his targets. At 4th level and every two levels thereafter, he may select a bonus feat from the list of fighter bonus feats. Improved Uncanny Dodge: At 5th level, a hashshashin can no longer be flanked, since he can react to opponents on opposite sides of him as easily as he can react to a single attacker. This defense denies rogues the ability to use flank attacks to sneak attack the hashshashin. The exception to this defense is that a rogue at least four levels higher than the hashshashin can flank him (and thus sneak attack him). If a character gains uncanny dodge (see above) from a second class the character automatically gains improved uncanny dodge, and the levels from those classes stack to determine the minimum rogue level required to flank the character. Ex-Hashshashin: A hashshashin who grossly violates the creed will be stripped of his rank and denied access to all resources he would receive from the organization. He may no longer gain levels in the Hashshashin prestige class unless he atones (he may atone without use of the spell in a non-magical campaign). He may regain access to the organization at such a time as well. However, many ex-hashshashin meet their ends at the blades of their former brothers before they get the chance. Altair, Master Assassin Male Human Rogue 5/Hashshashin 10 Hit Dice: 15d6+45 (98 hp) Initiative: +4 Speed: 30 ft. AC: 22 (+4 Dex, +8 class) touch 21, flat-footed 22 Base Attack/Grapple: +13/+16 Attack: longsword +17 melee (1d8+4 19-20/x2), or dagger +20 melee (1d4+3 19-20/x2), or sleeve blade +17 melee (1d4+1 19-20/x2) or dagger +18 ranged (1d4+1 19-20/x2) Full Attack: longsword +17/+12/+7 melee (1d8+4 19-20/x2), or dagger +20/+15/+10 melee (1d4+3 19-20/x2), or sleeve blade +17/+12/+7 melee (1d4+1 19-20/x2) or dagger +18/+13/+8 ranged (1d4+1 19-20/x2) Space/Reach: 5 ft./5 ft. Special Abilities: death attack, sneak attack +8d6 Special Qualities: evasion, improved uncanny dodge, trapfinding, trap sense +1 Saves: Fort +7, Ref +15, Will +6 Abilities: Str 13, Dex 19, Con 16, Int 16, Wis 14, Cha 15 Skills: Balance +16, Bluff +18, Climb +20, Diplomacy +9, Disguise +12 (+14 to act in character), Escape Artist +16, Gather Information +12, Handle Animal +8, Hide +14, Intimidate +14, Jump +20, Listen +9, Move Silently +14, Ride +14, Sense Motive +6, Slight of Hand +16, Spot +9, Tumble +13 Skill Tricks: Leaping Climber, Never Outnumbered, Nimble Charge, Wall Jumper Feats: Agile Athlete, Combat Expertise, Combat Reflexes*, Daredevil Athlete, Deadly Defense, Mounted Combat, Power Attack*, Ride-By Attack*, Skill Focus (climb), Skill Focus (jump), Weapon Finesse*, Weapon Focus (dagger)* * Bonus Feat Alignment: Lawful Neutral Challenge Rating: 15 Possessions: +3 longsword, +2 dagger, masterwork sleeve blade, daggers (8), breaker gauntlets (+2 bonus on Grapple checks), white assassin’s robes
Lich_King 12-05-07, 04:46 PM	l must say l love your Hashshashin pc the creed you have put up is right, but the +2 dagger is wrong Altair has what l would say by size a short sword on his back hope that helps
Mortavier Shadewalk 12-06-07, 07:59 PM	Did some in game and real life comparison, and you're right about the short sword. Once I finish up that Secret of Mana PDF I'm working on, I'll finish that up.
TheGeek 04-26-08, 11:01 PM	Are breaker gauntlets a custom item? Another point--is it just me, or does anyone else think that Altair's hidden blade is a bit like a punching dagger? I know it doesn't look like the PHB's picture of a punching dagger, but given the way he clenches his fist around it and, well, punches his targets with it, is that possible? Or does the punching dagger get it's x3 crit from the wide blade? Perhaps I'm just nitpicking. ;) Though it did seem that the sleeve blade was made for our Hashishan friend..