Backlash Damage challenge [Archive] - Wizards Community

Backlash Damage challenge [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Shiladie
06-16-07, 08:33 AM After browsing these forums for while, i've started to run through a thought experiment.
I've seen the other threads about maxing out how high you can get skills, hit saves, different combo's of rules from different books. With the most recent releases of books, we have been seeing damage shields come up more and more.

The premise of backlash damage, is on every attack that hits you, the person who hit you takes x amount of damage, never have i seen anything state these don't stack. SO what i'm wondering is, how much 'can' you get?

The Challenge:
1) You are unable to do anything once the fight begins (if you were playing the character you would be able to just sit back and say nothing)
2) You are unable to use the spell 'contingency' or anything that duplicate's it's effects
3) you are attacked 10 times a round for 10 rounds, each for 1 damage (surviving large damage isn't the point of the challenge)
4) deal the most damage possible to your attacker

Clarifications:
AoO/counters are not allowed due to rule 1
your character is assumed to 'hold' their action every round
the contingency spell is not the point of this challenge
standard level 20, with level 20 assumed wealth
32 point buy stats

here is a quick list of the sources of backlash damage that i've found (but you are by no mean's limited to

(PHP)
Fire Shield: 1d6 +1/CL backlash damage (maximum +15)

(MoI)
Mantle of flame: 1d6 + 1d6/essentia backlash damage

(ToB)
Holocaust Cloak: Stance, swordsage/warblade 3, 5 backlash damage

(PHP2)
Draconic Aura, Energy Shield: all allies within 30 ft gain 2 backlash damage/draconic aura level
Burning Blood, sor/wis 5. 1 backlash/CL 5 ft radius burst

(MIC)
Energy defence armour/shield +1, synergy (energy resistance) 3/day 1d6 + 10 backlash damage, duration 5 rounds
Cloak of the Salamander, Greater: 1d6 + 7 damage return

(BoED)
Sunmantle gives DR 5/- and deals 5 backlash damage. (need more info)

(DM)
Aura of Flame, Greater draconic invocation (DFA): 1 backlash damage/CL

Wounding whispers, Bard spell (unknown source, please help find): 1d8 sonic backlash damage

Total Backlash damage found without going epic:
12d6 + 1d8 + 102

Special:
Divine Retribution(PHB2) Cleric 3/Paladin 4. does your deity's weapon + str or wis for damage, but has to roll to hit, and only lasts 1 round

if you find any more, please tell me and i will add it
SageBahamut
06-16-07, 11:00 AM The only one I can think of off the top of my head is Wounding Whispers as a Bard spell.
If you don't mind a little play around the theme, you could throw in Karmic Strike or Robillar's Gambit feats, so they get all that damage and an AoO too.
Shiladie
06-16-07, 07:46 PM yea, also, you can get the counters from ToB (fire riposte, etc) this build mostly works around 10-12th level, minus a few d6 and damage (i think it's around 9d6 + 35 at 10th, though i'd have to check)

ill look up that bard spell and see if i can work it in.

Wounding whispers: 1d8 sonic damage return
Tempest Stormwind
06-17-07, 01:27 PM There's a few in psionics, but several of them will backfire. Most of them also reflect damage based on the amount you take, so it's hard to quantify.

The most direct is Empathic Feedback (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/empathicFeedback.htm), which returns up to 5 damage per attack (if the attack did less, it reflects less). It can be augmented, though -- assuming a psychic warrior uses it and maxes it out, it can reflect up to your manifester level in damage per hit, which puts it as easily the best option here. (If a psion or wilder uses it, it's your ML-2.) I should also note the damage type is "empathic". NOTHING reduces or is immune to that. (It says it's mind-affecting, but the power itself doesn't actually target anyone but you. It's debatable as to whether or not it works against mind-immunes.)

Energy Retort (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/energyRetort.htm) is another good one. It shoots off 4d6 energy damage (well, actually your choice of 4d6+4 fire, 4d6+4 cold, 4d6 electricity (with a bonus to hit metal armor and breach SR) or 4d6-4 sonic (which ignores hardness)). This is rather good damage for a 3rd-level effect that lasts this long, but there's a drawback: it only works against the first attack you get per round, and it's delayed until your turn when it launches.

A somewhat more roundabout option is Forced Share Pain (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/sharePainForced.htm), which is essentially an offensive Shield Other. It reduces all the damage you take by half, and reassigns that damage to the subject of the power. This isn't entirely automatic (due to the need to manifest it on a particular target), but it's also the strongest defensive option in the bunch. (For the record, Hostile Empathic Transfer (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/empathicTransferHostile.htm) can do similar effects and is useful for undoing damage you've taken, but isn't reactive like you're wanting.)

If you're up for more severe options, consider Fate Link (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/fateLink.htm) or Affinity Field (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/affinityField.htm), both of which will reflect 100% of the damage you take (Affinity Field even reflects other elements, too!). However, they also tend to reflect some offensive actions you might take as well, or your healing. Be careful when using these powers.

That's just from the XPH, and it doesn't begin to tackle the items (I know there's a psychoactive skin in the XPH that essentially acts like Energy Retort).
Shiladie
06-17-07, 06:37 PM very nice, i'll start poreing through the psionic books i have to see if they can be incorporated
Tempest Stormwind
06-17-07, 09:17 PM very nice, i'll start poreing through the psionic books i have to see if they can be incorporated

There's not much, just the XPH and Complete Psionic. There are a handful of powers in various other books, notably Eberron's books, but except for Magic of Eberron none of those are terribly useful.

The XPH is also available in the SRD, as I linked earlier.
NoldorForce
06-18-07, 12:43 AM I prefer the term "backlash", myself.

Burning Blood, from Draconomicon, deals backlash energy damage equal to your caster level in a 5' radius. The energy type is that of your breath weapon, which must be of the acid, cold, electricity, or fire damage types.

PHB2 also has Divine Retribution, which deals backlash force damage equal to the damage dice of your deity's favored weapon + 3/2 your Strength modifier. It only lasts for one round, unless you make it persistent.

Edit: Sunmantle from BoED gives DR 5/- and deals 5 backlash damage.
Shiladie
06-20-07, 02:59 PM I added the sunmantle, and the moment i get a chance to go through the dracronomicon and PHB2 to see if that can be itemized, ill see if they can eb added
when i wrote the OP, i had trrouble with what to call it, backlash sounds like ti works well, i made changes,and things flow smoother now.
Shiladie
06-20-07, 05:15 PM the origional build is getting a bit cluttered, i'm going to make a full-blown challenge out of this, and see what kind of sillyness we can get
Soluphobe
06-21-07, 10:47 AM The DraShaBOD (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=830275)does a fairly decent job of backlash, if I'm allowed to blow my own horn. If you apply liberal Reduce Persons to it you can stick them in your backpack and get 27x2x10 = 540 energy damage/round from them only, before adding in all the other stuff.
Shiladie
06-22-07, 04:52 PM i'd have to re-read it, but i was fairly sure the draconic auras didn't stack with themselves, even with multiple people giving them off, you just got the higher bonus, so energy shields, even if they are of different elements wouldent stack. again, i may be wrong

edit:
just read ure FAQ
Energy Shield doesn't stack!
Yes, it does. Just like the Power aura or fireball does.
and off i go to gape at this hole in the rules :P

edit2:
RAW it appears that they do indeed stack, though RAI, since the aura concept is copied from the marshal class where the auras didn't stack, the dragon shaman's shouldent either. by these rules i'm gonna see if i can get a party of dragon shamen together...

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Shiladie 06-16-07, 08:33 AM	After browsing these forums for while, i've started to run through a thought experiment. I've seen the other threads about maxing out how high you can get skills, hit saves, different combo's of rules from different books. With the most recent releases of books, we have been seeing damage shields come up more and more. The premise of backlash damage, is on every attack that hits you, the person who hit you takes x amount of damage, never have i seen anything state these don't stack. SO what i'm wondering is, how much 'can' you get? The Challenge: 1) You are unable to do anything once the fight begins (if you were playing the character you would be able to just sit back and say nothing) 2) You are unable to use the spell 'contingency' or anything that duplicate's it's effects 3) you are attacked 10 times a round for 10 rounds, each for 1 damage (surviving large damage isn't the point of the challenge) 4) deal the most damage possible to your attacker Clarifications: AoO/counters are not allowed due to rule 1 your character is assumed to 'hold' their action every round the contingency spell is not the point of this challenge standard level 20, with level 20 assumed wealth 32 point buy stats here is a quick list of the sources of backlash damage that i've found (but you are by no mean's limited to (PHP) Fire Shield: 1d6 +1/CL backlash damage (maximum +15) (MoI) Mantle of flame: 1d6 + 1d6/essentia backlash damage (ToB) Holocaust Cloak: Stance, swordsage/warblade 3, 5 backlash damage (PHP2) Draconic Aura, Energy Shield: all allies within 30 ft gain 2 backlash damage/draconic aura level Burning Blood, sor/wis 5. 1 backlash/CL 5 ft radius burst (MIC) Energy defence armour/shield +1, synergy (energy resistance) 3/day 1d6 + 10 backlash damage, duration 5 rounds Cloak of the Salamander, Greater: 1d6 + 7 damage return (BoED) Sunmantle gives DR 5/- and deals 5 backlash damage. (need more info) (DM) Aura of Flame, Greater draconic invocation (DFA): 1 backlash damage/CL Wounding whispers, Bard spell (unknown source, please help find): 1d8 sonic backlash damage Total Backlash damage found without going epic: 12d6 + 1d8 + 102 Special: Divine Retribution(PHB2) Cleric 3/Paladin 4. does your deity's weapon + str or wis for damage, but has to roll to hit, and only lasts 1 round if you find any more, please tell me and i will add it
SageBahamut 06-16-07, 11:00 AM	The only one I can think of off the top of my head is Wounding Whispers as a Bard spell. If you don't mind a little play around the theme, you could throw in Karmic Strike or Robillar's Gambit feats, so they get all that damage and an AoO too.
Shiladie 06-16-07, 07:46 PM	yea, also, you can get the counters from ToB (fire riposte, etc) this build mostly works around 10-12th level, minus a few d6 and damage (i think it's around 9d6 + 35 at 10th, though i'd have to check) ill look up that bard spell and see if i can work it in. Wounding whispers: 1d8 sonic damage return
Tempest Stormwind 06-17-07, 01:27 PM	There's a few in psionics, but several of them will backfire. Most of them also reflect damage based on the amount you take, so it's hard to quantify. The most direct is Empathic Feedback (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/empathicFeedback.htm), which returns up to 5 damage per attack (if the attack did less, it reflects less). It can be augmented, though -- assuming a psychic warrior uses it and maxes it out, it can reflect up to your manifester level in damage per hit, which puts it as easily the best option here. (If a psion or wilder uses it, it's your ML-2.) I should also note the damage type is "empathic". NOTHING reduces or is immune to that. (It says it's mind-affecting, but the power itself doesn't actually target anyone but you. It's debatable as to whether or not it works against mind-immunes.) Energy Retort (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/energyRetort.htm) is another good one. It shoots off 4d6 energy damage (well, actually your choice of 4d6+4 fire, 4d6+4 cold, 4d6 electricity (with a bonus to hit metal armor and breach SR) or 4d6-4 sonic (which ignores hardness)). This is rather good damage for a 3rd-level effect that lasts this long, but there's a drawback: it only works against the first attack you get per round, and it's delayed until your turn when it launches. A somewhat more roundabout option is Forced Share Pain (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/sharePainForced.htm), which is essentially an offensive Shield Other. It reduces all the damage you take by half, and reassigns that damage to the subject of the power. This isn't entirely automatic (due to the need to manifest it on a particular target), but it's also the strongest defensive option in the bunch. (For the record, Hostile Empathic Transfer (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/empathicTransferHostile.htm) can do similar effects and is useful for undoing damage you've taken, but isn't reactive like you're wanting.) If you're up for more severe options, consider Fate Link (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/fateLink.htm) or Affinity Field (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/affinityField.htm), both of which will reflect 100% of the damage you take (Affinity Field even reflects other elements, too!). However, they also tend to reflect some offensive actions you might take as well, or your healing. Be careful when using these powers. That's just from the XPH, and it doesn't begin to tackle the items (I know there's a psychoactive skin in the XPH that essentially acts like Energy Retort).
Shiladie 06-17-07, 06:37 PM	very nice, i'll start poreing through the psionic books i have to see if they can be incorporated
Tempest Stormwind 06-17-07, 09:17 PM	very nice, i'll start poreing through the psionic books i have to see if they can be incorporated There's not much, just the XPH and Complete Psionic. There are a handful of powers in various other books, notably Eberron's books, but except for Magic of Eberron none of those are terribly useful. The XPH is also available in the SRD, as I linked earlier.
NoldorForce 06-18-07, 12:43 AM	I prefer the term "backlash", myself. Burning Blood, from Draconomicon, deals backlash energy damage equal to your caster level in a 5' radius. The energy type is that of your breath weapon, which must be of the acid, cold, electricity, or fire damage types. PHB2 also has Divine Retribution, which deals backlash force damage equal to the damage dice of your deity's favored weapon + 3/2 your Strength modifier. It only lasts for one round, unless you make it persistent. Edit: Sunmantle from BoED gives DR 5/- and deals 5 backlash damage.
Shiladie 06-20-07, 02:59 PM	I added the sunmantle, and the moment i get a chance to go through the dracronomicon and PHB2 to see if that can be itemized, ill see if they can eb added when i wrote the OP, i had trrouble with what to call it, backlash sounds like ti works well, i made changes,and things flow smoother now.
Shiladie 06-20-07, 05:15 PM	the origional build is getting a bit cluttered, i'm going to make a full-blown challenge out of this, and see what kind of sillyness we can get
Soluphobe 06-21-07, 10:47 AM	The DraShaBOD (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=830275)does a fairly decent job of backlash, if I'm allowed to blow my own horn. If you apply liberal Reduce Persons to it you can stick them in your backpack and get 27x2x10 = 540 energy damage/round from them only, before adding in all the other stuff.
Shiladie 06-22-07, 04:52 PM	i'd have to re-read it, but i was fairly sure the draconic auras didn't stack with themselves, even with multiple people giving them off, you just got the higher bonus, so energy shields, even if they are of different elements wouldent stack. again, i may be wrong edit: just read ure FAQ Energy Shield doesn't stack! Yes, it does. Just like the Power aura or fireball does. and off i go to gape at this hole in the rules :P edit2: RAW it appears that they do indeed stack, though RAI, since the aura concept is copied from the marshal class where the auras didn't stack, the dragon shaman's shouldent either. by these rules i'm gonna see if i can get a party of dragon shamen together...