BioShock d20 SECR [Archive] - Wizards Community

BioShock d20 SECR [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Urban Sniper
09-27-07, 08:40 PM Well, I've been playing BioShock for a few weeks now, and have been messing around with making some rules for it based off the Star Wars Saga rules. I've seen a few posts here about Rapture games, but haven't taken a look at any rules that've been made thus far. Here's what I've come up with, mainly from just messing around in my spare time. Any thoughts/suggestions/other ideas would be great.

BioShock d20 SECR v.01 (http://www.mediafire.com/?9gzgzybznxt)

P.S. - Don't expect a great layout here. It's just my notes converted to a PDF file, and most of the stuff is in pretty rough shape. But hey, that could change.
Dex
09-28-07, 09:05 AM Better than many of my own ideas regarding this. I was thinking of using the RCR rules to simulate Plasmids, with a separate skill for each plasmid. Yours works much better though, alas, I don't have access to a SAGA edition book so some things will be beyond me. Might try to convert your work into RCR edition or a mongrel Dnd/d20 Modern/RCR setting if I have time.

Some comments/suggestions:
What bonus or options does electrobolt give to override electrical systems/disable security bots/turrets/cameras? Ion damage?

I suggest upping the bonus health from Extra Nutrition to your CON bonus.

Other than that it looks very playable. There haven't been very many rules made, anyway.
Urban Sniper
09-28-07, 10:12 AM The electrobolt hacking bonus was something that slipped my mind completely. Given how SECR handles bonuses, it would either allow you to use your Use Plasmid check in place of a Computer Use/Mechanics check to disable or hack, or it'd probably give a bonus based on your Use Plasmid check (anywhere from +1 to +5, maybe).
ArgulFraster
09-28-07, 09:02 PM I'd say the Big Daddies need to be a PrC or Advanced class. It's got all the hallmarks-must go through a complex ritual, must adhere to certain standards (never remove your suit), and grants an insane amount of power with adherence.
Urban Sniper
09-28-07, 10:56 PM That's not a bad idea about the PrC. Any ideas on how the Big Daddy PrC would look?
Thomar_of_Uointer
09-28-07, 11:31 PM That's not a bad idea about the PrC. Any ideas on how the Big Daddy PrC would look?

I'd treat it as a template, or simply stat them up as monsters. The player only gets the armor (basically full plate) in the game, and they apparently weren't doing it willingly.
ArgulFraster
09-29-07, 01:25 AM I'd treat it as a template, or simply stat them up as monsters. The player only gets the armor (basically full plate) in the game, and they apparently weren't doing it willingly.

You smell funny and dogs avoid you. Such is the fate of anyone who disagrees with me.

ANNYHOO!

Any ideas for the Big Daddy PrC?
Dex
09-29-07, 04:00 AM Now, now, his idea has merit. After all, sure, there's different kinds of Big Daddy, but they're basically defined by health and equipment, as opposed to abilities. I would say template too. I'd write a sample template but I have no idea about monster stats/feats/abilities in SECR.
JumpingJawa
09-30-07, 08:18 AM I also agree with the template for the Big Daddies. From what I understand about them (spoiler if you havent finished the game) The Suit and weapons are just that. The suit is a one atmospheric dive suit (heavily modied). The template is for the poor soul inside the suit. Take 1 human gen mod him with high STR, CON, and DEX lower is INT, WIS, and CHA. Surgicly mod his vocal cords to deepen his voice and make it sound like whale songs which only Little Sisters can understand. They have no other job than protecting Little Sisters. Personally I see their stats being Str 22, Con 22, Dex 22, Int 4, Wis 3, Cha 3 or something to that effect. How else do you explain plasmids like Enrage or Big Daddy working on them. No Template is the best way to go for Big Daddies. I mean I've heard of the big dumb brute but I certainly would not want to play something this dumb. PS by the way there are 2 types of Big Daddies The Bouncer and The Rosie, each type has its Normal and Elite subtype (basicly the Elite is Higher level than the normal). Good Luck with it.
Thomar_of_Uointer
09-30-07, 11:04 AM I also agree with the template for the Big Daddies. From what I understand about them (spoiler if you havent finished the game) The Suit and weapons are just that. The suit is a one atmospheric dive suit (heavily modied). The template is for the poor soul inside the suit. Take 1 human gen mod him with high STR, CON, and DEX lower is INT, WIS, and CHA. Surgicly mod his vocal cords to deepen his voice and make it sound like whale songs which only Little Sisters can understand. They have no other job than protecting Little Sisters. Personally I see their stats being Str 22, Con 22, Dex 22, Int 4, Wis 3, Cha 3 or something to that effect. How else do you explain plasmids like Enrage or Big Daddy working on them. No Template is the best way to go for Big Daddies. I mean I've heard of the big dumb brute but I certainly would not want to play something this dumb. PS by the way there are 2 types of Big Daddies The Bouncer and The Rosie, each type has its Normal and Elite subtype (basicly the Elite is Higher level than the normal). Good Luck with it.

Yep. Big Daddies should definitely be statted up as monsters, rather than using a template. You wouldn't have a Big Daddy Half-Dragon Elf, now, would you?
JumpingJawa
09-30-07, 11:20 AM Yeah, your right stat as a monster instead of template or Prc. Not thinking too well. Got to go my bed is calling.
Dex
10-01-07, 01:58 AM Actually I think the template would be better than as whole monsters: indeed, you could have Big Daddy half-dragons, if half-dragons ever ended up in Rapture and were mentally/physically conditioned to protect the little sisters. They are altered humans, not a non-human monster. Just because you don't want to play a Big Daddy-templated person doesn't mean you should rule it out, since if you statted it as a monster then it would have similar stats anyhow.

I vote for "base human + template (mental/physical conditioning) + gear = Big daddy"
JumpingJawa
10-01-07, 03:20 AM Dex and Thomar,

I don't want to seem wishy washy as can be concluded by my previous 2 posts and I apologize if I come across that way.
1) Template or Monster either to me is preferable than a Prc. This is simple because too many people see a creature or character and what to make a Prc around that concept. Big Daddies and Little Sisters ARE the denizens of Rapture. And as such wouldn't fit well in another setting or as PCs. Both for the most part act on instinked(s/p?) with the Little Sister having more mental faculties than the Big Daddy.
2) If any one is wondering why I chose to give the Big Daddy only a 4 Int and 3 Wis. If my memory serves me correctly a 3 Int is considered beastial int and you can't use tools. As such for the weapons a Big Daddy uses I gave them a 4 Int. The Wis is a little harder to explain. For me Wis tends to be instink and common sense. Which tends towards a persons life experience. Considering how in the game it is so easy to use the Enrage and Call Big Daddy plasmids and naturally you would need a Will save against them I believe a large portion of Raptures denizens had their will reduced by mind control drugs. The only time I would say Enrage or Call Big Daddy wouldn't work on a Big Daddy is if the only target for it to attack is a Little Sister at which point Big Daddy attacks the closest target that being the caster.
Urban Sniper
10-01-07, 09:40 AM I like the idea of a possible template instead of a monster, simply for the fact that the player becomes a Big Daddy in the game. True, there may be sacrifices to be made, but I don't think they would be quite so severe as dropping Int and Wis to around 4. Maybe just penalties to the stats along the range of -4 to -6.
JumpingJawa
10-01-07, 11:25 AM You got to remember "Jack" from the game didn't go through the entire process. Just enough of it to get him through to the next levels. In d20 terms I guess you would say he went through enough of the process to counteract the minusus to his bluff check versus the Little Sister. Oh something I just remember in reguards to the Big Daddy process they are also given pharamones that also draw the Littel Sisters to them. Just don't ask me how this works with Big Daddy being steam sealed into an Atmospheric Dive Suit (ADS) which is to protect you from the pressures of deep dives.
ArgulFraster
10-01-07, 03:43 PM I think the pheromones might be put into some part of the suit and released at certain intervals, like those stupid Glade things.

I really do want the Big Daddy template or PrC, instead of calling them monsters. I mean, look at, say, the hammerstruck from Green Ronin's Hammer and Helm. They look almost bestial, but they're dwarves underneath. The same goes for the Big Daddies. They're likely at least a little intelligent, but I'd say that the Call Big Daddy and Enrage plasmids are tuned to them somehow. I say that they'd have an automatic failure VS commands from Little Sister/Call Big Daddy user, and a lowered Fortitude against Enrage only.

The fact is, I'm just a Bouncer addict, and I want to play one.
Urban Sniper
10-01-07, 04:46 PM You've got to remember, too, that I'm using the Saga rules. That means that for the plasmids to work against the big daddies, you have to hit their will defense. Failing to hit that, you basically missed hitting them with the plasmid in terms of the console game. That's how I pictured it looking, at any rate. As to terms of their suceptibility (sp?) to the plasmids, those plasmids are most certainly designed specifically to effect the big daddies, so I'm thinking that their defenses against them would be treated as 5 or 10 points lower (not unlike how the devestating attack talents lower the damage threshold).
JumpingJawa
10-01-07, 09:46 PM Nothing against a fanatic who likes Big Daddies, they do look cool I admit. I'm just going on what I see in the game and read from the Bradygames guide, Bioshock Forums, and Bioshock Wiki (Yes, they even have their own section of Wikipedia). My thing is to give you as much information as I can on the subject so you can make your own decision on what you want to do. Here is what I know that I haven't stated before. Bouncer strictly melee fighter with the possiblity of having feats like Overrun or Bull Rush and Weapon Focus Drill. Rosies strictly range fighter as such they may have a higher Int than the Bouncer. They tend to stay at range and use the Rivet Gun (no idea on the dmg or how many rounds they carry) and proximity mines. I even went so far as looking into ADS's they could have inspired the Big Daddies design and (mind you my opinion only) they seem to be a conglomerate of two different styles. These I break up into Helmet and Body. Unfortunatly I haven't finished my research on this though so my info is incomplete. Bouncer Helmet (Carmagnolle 1882 French design) Body Unknown at this time would go so far to say JIM I 1967 US or UK design with a modified Drill attachment. Rosie Helmet Unknown can't even give you a guess at this time Body appears from the only picture of the patent I can find Bowdoin 1915 US design. The only problem with the Bowdoin is all I can find says it was never anything more than a concept not even a mock up was even made.
Thomar_of_Uointer
10-03-07, 09:17 PM The fact is, I'm just a Bouncer addict, and I want to play one.

Then give it a Level Adjustment.

With regards to Int 4, I'd treat their "tools" as natural weapons. They're definitely Int 3. Their Wisdom could be a bit higher, though, there's no reason not to do so.

Whatever pheromones Big Daddies exude could easily be treated as a plasmid.
JumpingJawa
10-06-07, 01:41 PM I like the thought of their tools and weapons being natural weapons. But I would say that at lest the Rosie variant of the Big Daddy would have a slightly higher Int than the Bouncer. Still single digit but ranged attacks do tend to require a little bit of thought to them. I think atlest.
Kackex
10-07-07, 12:48 AM hello this is kackex another rapture maker i have a document thats not ready and made a big daddy and splicers and what not but in d20 past my post regard the monsters and genetics i decieded to use the MP system for the genetics (mutation points) go and respond to me if you want me to send you the document ask me and send email plz i am in d20 past quarter Bioshock:Expedition to Rapture. i am making maps of the place and leading a d20 group into rapture just as rapture went into civil war.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Urban Sniper 09-27-07, 08:40 PM	Well, I've been playing BioShock for a few weeks now, and have been messing around with making some rules for it based off the Star Wars Saga rules. I've seen a few posts here about Rapture games, but haven't taken a look at any rules that've been made thus far. Here's what I've come up with, mainly from just messing around in my spare time. Any thoughts/suggestions/other ideas would be great. BioShock d20 SECR v.01 (http://www.mediafire.com/?9gzgzybznxt) P.S. - Don't expect a great layout here. It's just my notes converted to a PDF file, and most of the stuff is in pretty rough shape. But hey, that could change.
Dex 09-28-07, 09:05 AM	Better than many of my own ideas regarding this. I was thinking of using the RCR rules to simulate Plasmids, with a separate skill for each plasmid. Yours works much better though, alas, I don't have access to a SAGA edition book so some things will be beyond me. Might try to convert your work into RCR edition or a mongrel Dnd/d20 Modern/RCR setting if I have time. Some comments/suggestions: What bonus or options does electrobolt give to override electrical systems/disable security bots/turrets/cameras? Ion damage? I suggest upping the bonus health from Extra Nutrition to your CON bonus. Other than that it looks very playable. There haven't been very many rules made, anyway.
Urban Sniper 09-28-07, 10:12 AM	The electrobolt hacking bonus was something that slipped my mind completely. Given how SECR handles bonuses, it would either allow you to use your Use Plasmid check in place of a Computer Use/Mechanics check to disable or hack, or it'd probably give a bonus based on your Use Plasmid check (anywhere from +1 to +5, maybe).
ArgulFraster 09-28-07, 09:02 PM	I'd say the Big Daddies need to be a PrC or Advanced class. It's got all the hallmarks-must go through a complex ritual, must adhere to certain standards (never remove your suit), and grants an insane amount of power with adherence.
Urban Sniper 09-28-07, 10:56 PM	That's not a bad idea about the PrC. Any ideas on how the Big Daddy PrC would look?
Thomar_of_Uointer 09-28-07, 11:31 PM	That's not a bad idea about the PrC. Any ideas on how the Big Daddy PrC would look? I'd treat it as a template, or simply stat them up as monsters. The player only gets the armor (basically full plate) in the game, and they apparently weren't doing it willingly.
ArgulFraster 09-29-07, 01:25 AM	I'd treat it as a template, or simply stat them up as monsters. The player only gets the armor (basically full plate) in the game, and they apparently weren't doing it willingly. You smell funny and dogs avoid you. Such is the fate of anyone who disagrees with me. ANNYHOO! Any ideas for the Big Daddy PrC?
Dex 09-29-07, 04:00 AM	Now, now, his idea has merit. After all, sure, there's different kinds of Big Daddy, but they're basically defined by health and equipment, as opposed to abilities. I would say template too. I'd write a sample template but I have no idea about monster stats/feats/abilities in SECR.
JumpingJawa 09-30-07, 08:18 AM	I also agree with the template for the Big Daddies. From what I understand about them (spoiler if you havent finished the game) The Suit and weapons are just that. The suit is a one atmospheric dive suit (heavily modied). The template is for the poor soul inside the suit. Take 1 human gen mod him with high STR, CON, and DEX lower is INT, WIS, and CHA. Surgicly mod his vocal cords to deepen his voice and make it sound like whale songs which only Little Sisters can understand. They have no other job than protecting Little Sisters. Personally I see their stats being Str 22, Con 22, Dex 22, Int 4, Wis 3, Cha 3 or something to that effect. How else do you explain plasmids like Enrage or Big Daddy working on them. No Template is the best way to go for Big Daddies. I mean I've heard of the big dumb brute but I certainly would not want to play something this dumb. PS by the way there are 2 types of Big Daddies The Bouncer and The Rosie, each type has its Normal and Elite subtype (basicly the Elite is Higher level than the normal). Good Luck with it.
Thomar_of_Uointer 09-30-07, 11:04 AM	I also agree with the template for the Big Daddies. From what I understand about them (spoiler if you havent finished the game) The Suit and weapons are just that. The suit is a one atmospheric dive suit (heavily modied). The template is for the poor soul inside the suit. Take 1 human gen mod him with high STR, CON, and DEX lower is INT, WIS, and CHA. Surgicly mod his vocal cords to deepen his voice and make it sound like whale songs which only Little Sisters can understand. They have no other job than protecting Little Sisters. Personally I see their stats being Str 22, Con 22, Dex 22, Int 4, Wis 3, Cha 3 or something to that effect. How else do you explain plasmids like Enrage or Big Daddy working on them. No Template is the best way to go for Big Daddies. I mean I've heard of the big dumb brute but I certainly would not want to play something this dumb. PS by the way there are 2 types of Big Daddies The Bouncer and The Rosie, each type has its Normal and Elite subtype (basicly the Elite is Higher level than the normal). Good Luck with it. Yep. Big Daddies should definitely be statted up as monsters, rather than using a template. You wouldn't have a Big Daddy Half-Dragon Elf, now, would you?
JumpingJawa 09-30-07, 11:20 AM	Yeah, your right stat as a monster instead of template or Prc. Not thinking too well. Got to go my bed is calling.
Dex 10-01-07, 01:58 AM	Actually I think the template would be better than as whole monsters: indeed, you could have Big Daddy half-dragons, if half-dragons ever ended up in Rapture and were mentally/physically conditioned to protect the little sisters. They are altered humans, not a non-human monster. Just because you don't want to play a Big Daddy-templated person doesn't mean you should rule it out, since if you statted it as a monster then it would have similar stats anyhow. I vote for "base human + template (mental/physical conditioning) + gear = Big daddy"
JumpingJawa 10-01-07, 03:20 AM	Dex and Thomar, I don't want to seem wishy washy as can be concluded by my previous 2 posts and I apologize if I come across that way. 1) Template or Monster either to me is preferable than a Prc. This is simple because too many people see a creature or character and what to make a Prc around that concept. Big Daddies and Little Sisters ARE the denizens of Rapture. And as such wouldn't fit well in another setting or as PCs. Both for the most part act on instinked(s/p?) with the Little Sister having more mental faculties than the Big Daddy. 2) If any one is wondering why I chose to give the Big Daddy only a 4 Int and 3 Wis. If my memory serves me correctly a 3 Int is considered beastial int and you can't use tools. As such for the weapons a Big Daddy uses I gave them a 4 Int. The Wis is a little harder to explain. For me Wis tends to be instink and common sense. Which tends towards a persons life experience. Considering how in the game it is so easy to use the Enrage and Call Big Daddy plasmids and naturally you would need a Will save against them I believe a large portion of Raptures denizens had their will reduced by mind control drugs. The only time I would say Enrage or Call Big Daddy wouldn't work on a Big Daddy is if the only target for it to attack is a Little Sister at which point Big Daddy attacks the closest target that being the caster.
Urban Sniper 10-01-07, 09:40 AM	I like the idea of a possible template instead of a monster, simply for the fact that the player becomes a Big Daddy in the game. True, there may be sacrifices to be made, but I don't think they would be quite so severe as dropping Int and Wis to around 4. Maybe just penalties to the stats along the range of -4 to -6.
JumpingJawa 10-01-07, 11:25 AM	You got to remember "Jack" from the game didn't go through the entire process. Just enough of it to get him through to the next levels. In d20 terms I guess you would say he went through enough of the process to counteract the minusus to his bluff check versus the Little Sister. Oh something I just remember in reguards to the Big Daddy process they are also given pharamones that also draw the Littel Sisters to them. Just don't ask me how this works with Big Daddy being steam sealed into an Atmospheric Dive Suit (ADS) which is to protect you from the pressures of deep dives.
ArgulFraster 10-01-07, 03:43 PM	I think the pheromones might be put into some part of the suit and released at certain intervals, like those stupid Glade things. I really do want the Big Daddy template or PrC, instead of calling them monsters. I mean, look at, say, the hammerstruck from Green Ronin's Hammer and Helm. They look almost bestial, but they're dwarves underneath. The same goes for the Big Daddies. They're likely at least a little intelligent, but I'd say that the Call Big Daddy and Enrage plasmids are tuned to them somehow. I say that they'd have an automatic failure VS commands from Little Sister/Call Big Daddy user, and a lowered Fortitude against Enrage only. The fact is, I'm just a Bouncer addict, and I want to play one.
Urban Sniper 10-01-07, 04:46 PM	You've got to remember, too, that I'm using the Saga rules. That means that for the plasmids to work against the big daddies, you have to hit their will defense. Failing to hit that, you basically missed hitting them with the plasmid in terms of the console game. That's how I pictured it looking, at any rate. As to terms of their suceptibility (sp?) to the plasmids, those plasmids are most certainly designed specifically to effect the big daddies, so I'm thinking that their defenses against them would be treated as 5 or 10 points lower (not unlike how the devestating attack talents lower the damage threshold).
JumpingJawa 10-01-07, 09:46 PM	Nothing against a fanatic who likes Big Daddies, they do look cool I admit. I'm just going on what I see in the game and read from the Bradygames guide, Bioshock Forums, and Bioshock Wiki (Yes, they even have their own section of Wikipedia). My thing is to give you as much information as I can on the subject so you can make your own decision on what you want to do. Here is what I know that I haven't stated before. Bouncer strictly melee fighter with the possiblity of having feats like Overrun or Bull Rush and Weapon Focus Drill. Rosies strictly range fighter as such they may have a higher Int than the Bouncer. They tend to stay at range and use the Rivet Gun (no idea on the dmg or how many rounds they carry) and proximity mines. I even went so far as looking into ADS's they could have inspired the Big Daddies design and (mind you my opinion only) they seem to be a conglomerate of two different styles. These I break up into Helmet and Body. Unfortunatly I haven't finished my research on this though so my info is incomplete. Bouncer Helmet (Carmagnolle 1882 French design) Body Unknown at this time would go so far to say JIM I 1967 US or UK design with a modified Drill attachment. Rosie Helmet Unknown can't even give you a guess at this time Body appears from the only picture of the patent I can find Bowdoin 1915 US design. The only problem with the Bowdoin is all I can find says it was never anything more than a concept not even a mock up was even made.
Thomar_of_Uointer 10-03-07, 09:17 PM	The fact is, I'm just a Bouncer addict, and I want to play one. Then give it a Level Adjustment. With regards to Int 4, I'd treat their "tools" as natural weapons. They're definitely Int 3. Their Wisdom could be a bit higher, though, there's no reason not to do so. Whatever pheromones Big Daddies exude could easily be treated as a plasmid.
JumpingJawa 10-06-07, 01:41 PM	I like the thought of their tools and weapons being natural weapons. But I would say that at lest the Rosie variant of the Big Daddy would have a slightly higher Int than the Bouncer. Still single digit but ranged attacks do tend to require a little bit of thought to them. I think atlest.
Kackex 10-07-07, 12:48 AM	hello this is kackex another rapture maker i have a document thats not ready and made a big daddy and splicers and what not but in d20 past my post regard the monsters and genetics i decieded to use the MP system for the genetics (mutation points) go and respond to me if you want me to send you the document ask me and send email plz i am in d20 past quarter Bioshock:Expedition to Rapture. i am making maps of the place and leading a d20 group into rapture just as rapture went into civil war.