Post/Author/DateTime	Post
1337Ninja 09-22-07, 05:38 PM	Fission Psychometabolism Level: Egoist 7 Display: Olfactory Manifesting Time: 1 standard action Range: Personal Effect: Duplicate of yourself Duration: 1 round/level (D) Power Points: 13 You can divide yourself, creating a duplicate that comes into existence 5 feet away. Your duplicate thinks and acts exactly as you do and follows your orders, although it will not do anything you wouldn’t do yourself. Your duplicate has all your abilities but none of your psionic or magical equipment (it does possess a duplicate of all your mundane equipment, clothing, armor, and implements, as well as mundane versions of any psionic or magical equipment you have). You and your duplicate evenly split your power points, your remaining usages of pertinent special abilities for the day, and so on. You retain your psionic focus, if you maintain such when this power is manifested. Treat your duplicate as yourself with two negative levels for the purpose of determining the powers to which the duplicate has access (while the duration of this power lasts, those negative levels cannot be removed by any means). Your duplicate has all other physical traits you had at the time you manifest this power. Powers, spells, or other effects affecting you when you manifest this power do not transfer to your duplicate. When the duration expires or when you dismiss the power, you and your duplicate rejoin, no matter how far from each other you are. You gain back any power points the duplicate has not spent. At the time of rejoining, you take half of the damage your duplicate has taken since this power was manifested. This damage could potentially leave you with negative hit points, but it can’t reduce your hit points to less than -9. If your duplicate dies before the duration expires, no rejoining occurs, and you gain one negative level. If you die, your duplicate remains in existence, and is for all intents you, but with two negative levels. (Once the duration expires, one of the negative levels immediately converts to one lost level; the other negative level can be removed by standard means.) You can have only one fissioned duplicate in existence at one time; your duplicate cannot use this power. You cannot use fusion or metaconcert with a duplicate, or share any other power or effect that pools abilities (the sum of you and you is still just you). Similarly, attempting to use powers such as claws of the vampire or vampiric blade to hurt your duplicate only damages your duplicate; these powers do not heal you. Empathic transfer and similar powers are likewise ineffective (transferring wounds to yourself isn’t a good healing strategy). All powers affecting a fissioned creature, either the original or the duplicate, end when the fission ends. All damage, including hit point damage, ability damage, ability drain, and ability burn damage, is added together. The bold text is what made me think about this power. If the duplicate dies, you lose a negative level. If the negative level kills you, the duplicate does not vanish, but becomes you with two negative levels. So what happens if your original body is later revived? Two of you. In fact, two creatures that are, for all intents, you. So... 15th-level egoist. Let's call him Bob. Bob knows the powers body adjustment, fission, mindwipe and psionic revivify, in addition to a few other, inconsequential powers. He also has bought a thought bottle. He wants to be ridiculously powerful, so he uses this trick. Round 1: Bob pays 500 XP to store his XP in the thought bottle. No probs, he had exactly 500 XP over the required amount for level 15, so he doesn't lose a level. Rounds 2-6: Bob manifests Fission, while carrying 180,000gp worth of art and the thought bottle in his bag. A duplicate of him, with the money, appears 5 feet away. Bob manifests Mindwipe, augmented to bestow 4 negative levels, on himself three times and fails his saving throw voluntarily every time. His duplicate coup de graces itself with a quarterstaff and voluntarily fails its saving throw. Bob dies from the negative level, and his duplicate manifests Psionic Revivify on Bob. Round 7: Bob is currently on -1 HP and stable. His duplicate manifests Body Adjustment, augmented to heal 2d12 HP. Now, BA affects you and you only. However, as you are definately yourself, and his duplicate is for all intents him, they both heal 2d12 HP. Bob stands up and thanks the duplicate. Round 8: Bob's duplicate touches the thought bottle to restore it to level 15. Rounds 9+: Bob and his duplicate repeat the process, but it only takes 7 rounds this time, because the XP is already in the thought bottle. Every 7 rounds, the number of Bobs doubles. As long as all the Bobs are within 5 feet of each other, they can pass around the thought bottle to the nearest duplicate who just burnt XP instantly, so there is no time expended in doing that. As the entire procedure takes 7 rounds, ignoring the extra round when it is performed for the first time, and there are 14,400 rounds in a day, Bob can double the number of Bobs in existance slightly over 2,000 times in one day. Because any mundane equipment is replicated along with the duplicate, the 180,000gp worth of art in Bob's backpack is doubled a like number of times. Now we have a limitless number of 13th-level Egoists, each with 180,000gp. I'm calling the collective Bobses Bobs the Many. You can have only one fissioned duplicate in existence at one time; your duplicate cannot use this power. ... All powers affecting a fissioned creature, either the original or the duplicate, end when the fission ends.At the very most, you have one permanent clone. Nice, but you still have to split pp with him. True, but my argument against that is the line: ...and is for all intents you Seeing as you cannot be your own duplicate, this suggests to me that you can, whether or not it was intended, pull the trick off. After much searching, I have uncovered more, eviller ways to break the Many Bobs. As his feat for level 15, Bobs takes Leadership. As one of his powers, Fusion. You guessed it, limitless cohorts to fuse with. Thanks to his thought bottle, which Bobs has put his level 15-ness into, Fusion's XP cost means nothing, as it can be recovered in 6 seconds. So... Six of Bobs' cohorts use an array of stat-boosting races and templates to max out one ability score, then fuse, giving Bobs their maxed out ability score. Thanks to random templates and Fusion's racial feature pooling, Bobs are immune to all energy types. They also have a troll's regeneration. A warforged with the feat (I don't own Races of Eberron, so I can't name it) that grants immunity to nonlethal damage. Bam, Bobs is immune to everything barring point-blank annhilation. Spellcasting cohorts let Bobs cast any 7th-level or lower spell from the list of any fullcaster under the sun, with limitless slots as well, so nearly all buffs are open to him. He has any and every feat that can be taken by a level 13 character of any race or class. A paladin's divine grace and a blackguard's equivalent ability (forgotten the name, unholy grace?) let Bobs add his high Charisma modifier to saves twice. He can greater rage 4 times per day, has 7d6 sneak attack and sudden strike from rogue and ninja, another 7 (?) d6 from spelltheif, every least, lesser, and greater invocation, a death attack that uses his pretty damn high Intelligence. Scrolls of death ward, bought with Bobs' limitless money, give immunity to death effects as well. Bobs' protection includes, but is not limited to, the following: Regeneration 5 beaten by acid and fire, immunity to all energy types, immunity to nonlethal damage, immunity to death effects, immune to sleep and paralysis, massive Con score, improved evasion, uncanny dodge, improved uncanny dodge, considerable damage reduction, ridiculous AC through limitless natural armour-boosting templates, protective buffs, mettle, adding a high Charisma score to saves twice, maxed out hide coupled with hide in plain sight, constant true seeings, immune to nausea, fatigue, exhaustion and energy drain and plant traits (woodling cohort). Bobs can be killed by divine intervention and that's it, and even direct attack by the gods is pushing it. Even if they have the energy resistances and DR to be immune to every type of damage Bobs can throw at them, which is unlikely at best, they simply can't kill Bobs quickly enough to stop more Bobs from coming into existance faster than they are killed. Psionic revivify lets a manifester reconnect a corpse’s psyche with its body, restoring life to a recently deceased creature. The power must be manifested within 1 round of the victim’s death. Before the psyche of the deceased has completely left the body, this power halts its journey while repairing somewhat the damage to the body. This power functions like the raise dead spell, except that the affected creature receives no level loss, no Constitution loss, and no loss of powers. The creature has -1 hit points (but is stable) after being restored to life. You restore life to a deceased creature. You can raise a creature that has been dead for no longer than one day per caster level. In addition, the subject’s soul must be free and willing to return. If the subject’s soul is not willing to return, the spell does not work; therefore, a subject that wants to return receives no saving throw. How are you getting around the lack of a soul or psyche to place in the inert corpse? Fission has to create a new soul, if only temporarily, because otherwise the duplicate would be a corpse. It may be that a magically created clone doesn't need a soul to operate, but nothing is said about this, so I am assuming that it does. Ok. Here we go. I assuming here that 1. Bobs being one entity means that, while each individual Bob acts normally, all effects apply to every Bobs. That means that if one Bob is Dominated, they all are. However, one Bob being Fireballed only affects him, because that isn't an effect that applies to a single creature, it's 'you're there,you're hit'. 2. This means that, with Leadership taken lots of times, Bobs has a lot of cohorts. He Fusions with them to gain all abilities available to characters of 13th level or lower. So, with a bit of help from everyone's second favourite stuffed up maneuver, Bobs can go infinite by doubling infinite times in one round. Step 1: One Bobs uses Moment of Alacrity to make his initiative higher than he can possibly get without it. He used Aura of Perfect Order to 'take 11' on his Initiative roll, so he now has 31 + his Dex. 128 Bobs all manifest Fission. There are now 128 Bobs and 128 duplicates. Step 2: One of the Fissioned duplicates uses White Raven Tactics on the original Bobs. The rest delay. Bobs' initiative is now 30 + Dex. Step 3: 126 of the Bobs begin the Fission trick. After their turn, one duplicate uses Moment of Alacrity, then uses Divine Impetus from Ruby Knight Vindicator to use White Raven Tactics and Bobs has another turn at +19 to Initiative. This goes on until Bobs has an initiative count of huge, and all of the duplicates bar one have had their turns. By this time, Bobs has permanently doubled 17 times. Step 4: When there is one duplicate capable of using White Raven Tactics left, all the Bobs dismiss the Fission powers. This triggers the final duplicate's readed action to give Bobs another turn with White Raven Tactics, and he uses it to delay until initiative 31 + his Dexterity. At that initiative count, the he begins again from step 1. So Bobs the Many does not only get limitless numbers of Bobs, he gets infinite by being able to copy himself as many times as he wants in a single round. This means that everything that can scale with your money (saves, ability scores, etc.) is infinite. And that means that he has +infinity on all skills, attack rolls, damage rolls, HP, AC, spell DCs... Now, the only entity capable of defeating Bobs the Many is Pun-Pun. And I'm working on that. All I need is divine rank (I could easily use Pun-Pun's method, but I didn't invent that) and nothing ever made can beat me at the height of my powers.
Callix 09-22-07, 08:43 PM	This is arbitrary, not infinite. Even though it takes no time, it requires Bobs to actively initiate the loop, and so will stop when Bobs thinks he's good enough. The same was true of Pun-Pun until the Omniscificer came along, when Pun-Pun became able to get true infinity to all skill checks, then all stats. As to the godliness question, what about diplomacy? Talk a Titan into fusing with you (using your arbitrary Gather Information check to find him), then use his Gate SLA to create a portal to, say, Boccob's divine realm. Walk up, talk to him a bit, then persuade him to fuse with you. Now you're a greater deity. Boosting your rank much higher will need Pun-Pun's squirrels, but you are a god, and that has to count for something.
1337Ninja 09-23-07, 02:13 AM	I thought that arbitrary was infinite, but oh well. It's still a step up from just stupidly high. Isn't Pun-Pun meant to have divine rank and such? If he does, then how does he get it? I considered Diplomacy, but that's more DM-controlled. Nothing actually says that a Helpful god will give you divine rank.
CrimsonDeath 09-23-07, 03:15 AM	I thought that arbitrary was infinite, but oh well. "Arbitrary" means that it can get as high (or low) as you like, but you still have to choose a specific value, to which a number (however large) may be affixed. "Infinite" (or "infinitesimal") means it's actually immeasurable, and the exact value isn't under direct control. Either one will be better (or worse) than a value that is finite and not arbitrary, but an infinite (or infinitesimal) value will be better (or worse) than an arbitrary one.
Callix 09-23-07, 03:32 AM	Pun-Pun uses his at-will Ice Assassin(Frostburn) SLA to produce an Ice Assasin of a deity. The nature of SLA's means he doesn't need the material component, and he simply creates enough levels for him to bear the XP cost (alternatively, he uses the Dweomerkeeper's Supernatural Spell to get it for free, though this requires him to actually cast a 9th level spell, rather than use his at-will SLA's). The Ice Assassin deity makes Pun-Pun into a divine proxy. Pun-Pun then takes a squirrel and makes it his proxy. Pun-Pun dismisses the Ice Assassin, then creates another one, who makes him a proxy again. He continues this until he has (arbitrary) Divine Rank 1 squirrel proxies, then recalls the divine ranks of all his proxies as a single standard action. He now has Divine Rank (arbitrary).
1337Ninja 09-23-07, 04:46 AM	Whoops, that was meant to say 'infinite' divine rank. Still, I see that he doesn't, and I either misread or or was misinformed. CrimsonDeath: Ah, okay. Thanks.
Callix 09-23-07, 07:05 AM	There is no actual mechanic for gaining divine ranks; Pun-Pun can only increase his godly power by working the system in rules abuse (at-will Ice Assassins, multiple proxies). Thus, Pun-Pun can't gain true infinite divine rank. Pun-Pun's core mechanic, Manipulate Form, can't do infinite anything under its own power. To get an infinite, rather than arbitrary, value for anything, Pun-Pun has to draw upon another trick, such as LoP's Infinite Damage Engine from the Omniscificer trick, then find a way to use the infinite input (damage in this case) to gain the desired output, at any efficiency. For example, by using electric damage to initiate the engine, Pun-Pun can bleed off (via another Fate Link or Share Pain) infinite electric damage. This, combined with the Shambling Mound's electricity immunity, gives Pun-Pun an infinite Con score, which Void Release (Void Disciple PrC) transfers to all his stats. But since Proxy, the only ability that increases the target's divine rank, only works on a creature whose divine rank is less than 1, any divine rank creation loop requires action on the target's part to sustain it. If a loop requires the action of a participant to continue, it can only provide arbitrary results. Which are good enough to overcome any finite challenge, but leave something for the mathematicians and optimisers to ponder.
1337Ninja 10-05-07, 03:44 AM	Would Bobs dominating himself and telling himself to repeat the loop infinite times cause him to do it without actually making a conscious decision to do so? Because the dominate power tells the game that he's doing the loop infinite times, he does it. He doesn't have to actively initiate the loop.
Callix 10-05-07, 06:06 AM	Two problems: a loop that takes a finite amount of time can't become infinite without time tricks (you'll only have completed a certain number of loops). The Far Realms offer you a cheap and simple solution to that one. The other is getting a source of divine rank. Bobs' infinite Diplomacy is always a good way, but he can't get the Ice Assassin SLAs without absorbing Pun-Pun, although he could absord a Dweomerkeeper if one of the Bobs or his cohort could actually cast Ice Assasin (Beholder Mage anyone?), and that's got restricted uses/day. Still, making Bobs a proxy gives all the Bobs a divine rank of 1, which they can each bestow upon squirrels (or furry mammals of their choice), so Bobs can multiply a single divine rank into either arbitrary or infinite divine rank by having one Bobs (the original) reclaim all the Bobs' ranks. The "Bobs engine", with a small group of Bobs dedicated to producing an infinite number of Bobs in a single round, is a good idea, and simpler than the Monty trick, since it doesn't take infinite subjective time, just an infinite number of turns all within the same round. Of course, this has the effect of basically "hanging" the combat system; infinite out-of-game time is taken to resolve the combo, even though only six in-game seconds pass. This is commonly regarded as making it into an arbitrary loop, but since it has infinite effect in a finite time, and is basically actions on autopilot, and doesn't consume all the actions of the character for that time, then this might just be an infinite loop. Greater knowledge of set theory than mine is needed to adjudicate this; however it falls, Bobs can create a single Bob with the same Divine Rank, who can then perform more Bobs loops to create N Bobs of Divine Rank N, where N is either arbitrarily large, or possibly infinite.
1337Ninja 10-05-07, 06:30 AM	What do the Far Realms do? I can probably get divine rank, but I'd like to get Bobs infinite first. Once you have given a dominated creature a command, it continues to attempt to carry out that command to the exclusion of all other activities except those necessary for day-to-day survival (such as sleeping, eating, and so forth). If he tells himself to repeat the loop, the game says that he does it until he has to stop because he's going to starve or some other reason. As it's all occurring within 6 seconds, the spell will never allow him to stop duplicating.
Callix 10-05-07, 06:49 AM	The Far Realms gives you a zero-to-one time ratio, allowing you to take as long as you like setting up your trick. It doesn't do much for Bobs, but it's always a fallback if you've got something taking time per iteration. You don't. The problem with the Dominate effect is that is affects all Bobs, so Bobs can't do anything to break the loop, and you get the combat-round hang problem of it taking infinite out-of-game time to resolve the round. There are indeed an infinite number of Bobs, limited only by available space, on the next round, but since it took the players an infinite amount of time, the next round never comes. A bit of a semantic objection, but I'm not really sure of its validity.
1337Ninja 10-05-07, 07:08 AM	You can't break the loop, but neither can the Omniscifier. At first, they seem to be different, because the Omniscifier doesn't actually act for his loop, but, when you get down to it, they're both the same thing. Both of them involve a spell telling something to happen an infinite number of times. People accept that the Omniscifier works, thus, Bobs works too. Either way, I've just figured out another way to get divine rank, assuming there is an undead deity with divine rank 15 or less. I'm not sure, because I don't own DD. I'm pretty sure Doresian would be if he has stats. Before going infinite, Bobs walk up to this deity, and cast a whole bunch of Control Undead spells. It isn't mind-affecting, and thus deities have no immunity to it. He will fail at least one save, and Bobs now control him. They command him to make them a proxy, and he does so. They then manifest Fission, not making the duplicates actual Bobs. The duplicates make Bobs a proxy. This can be used as part of the infinite loop, which means that there are infinite Bobs with infinite divine rank. That also makes a WHOLE lot of other things infinite. Archmage cohorts give Bobs every arcane spell as at-will spell-like abilities. Bobs has cohorts who cast shapechange from caster level 22 scrolls to become hagunemnons, then use Alter Shape combined with the Metamorphic Transfer feat, then fusing, to give Bobs every extraordinary and supernatural ability that exists. Now all I need is the spell-like and psi-like abilities and Bobs is effectively infinite Pun-Puns.
Callix 10-05-07, 07:35 AM	You can't break the loop, but neither can the Omniscifier. At first, they seem to be different, because the Omniscifier doesn't actually act for his loop, but, when you get down to it, they're both the same thing. Both of them involve a spell telling something to happen an infinite number of times. People accept that the Omniscifier works, thus, Bobs works too. Either way, I've just figured out another way to get divine rank, assuming there is an undead deity with divine rank 15 or less. I'm not sure, because I don't own DD. I'm pretty sure Doresian would be if he has stats. Before going infinite, Bobs walk up to this deity, and cast a whole bunch of Control Undead spells. It isn't mind-affecting, and thus deities have no immunity to it. He will fail at least one save, and Bobs now control him. They command him to make them a proxy, and he does so. They then manifest Fission, not making the duplicates actual Bobs. The duplicates make Bobs a proxy. This can be used as part of the infinite loop, which means that there are infinite Bobs with infinite divine rank. That also makes a WHOLE lot of other things infinite. Archmage cohorts give Bobs every arcane spell as at-will spell-like abilities. Bobs has cohorts who cast shapechange from caster level 22 scrolls to become hagunemnons, then use Alter Shape combined with the Metamorphic Transfer feat, then fusing, to give Bobs every extraordinary and supernatural ability that exists. Now all I need is the spell-like and psi-like abilities and Bobs is effectively infinite Pun-Puns. Archmage SLAs have special restrictions above normal SLAs. Make sure there's not one coming to bite you. Control Undead on a god is a good idea; the King of Ghouls from Libris Mortis might be a good target. On the Omniscificer comparison, there is one difference in the analysis: once the loop starts, there are no actions taken to sustain it. Your loop takes place within a constrained amount of time, but includes an infinity of actions. Ths means there's a bit of room for argument. Frankly, I don't think I'm the best person to run those arguments; my set theory and cardinality is sub-par compared to a number of people who inhabit these boards.
Senevri 10-05-07, 12:36 PM	Pun-Pun can bleed off (via another Fate Link or Share Pain) infinite electric damage. This, combined with the Shambling Mound's electricity immunity, gives Pun-Pun an infinite Con score, which Void Release (Void Disciple PrC) transfers to all his stats.... which can then be made permanent via Manipulate Form and you can actually dismiss your infinite damage loop, if you want. ...I still like the whole nut-pun theory somewhat suspicious - if the Ice Assassin is dismissed, common sense might dictate that the divine ranks go *poof* as well -- although there's a counter-proof in FR, I believe - the Power Divine seems to be something separate from the existence of a specific god, a lot of the time. Frankly, I'd like to see an alternate way of gaining Divine Ranks, but I doubt there is one.
awaken_D_M_golem 10-05-07, 01:56 PM	... alternate way of gaining Divine Ranks ... Regardless of whether the exact trick of nut-puns works or not, infinite Intelligence and/or infinite Knowledge(?) would certainly give both whether divine ranks are acquireable and how to do it. I think, iirc, LoP stated something close to this statement and I'm prone to agree with him. So Pun can do it , Omni- can do it, Blingy the Psicrystal can do it, presumeably the original Hive could eventually do it, as could psly4mne's arbitrary build. Because of the time loopiness of the FarRealms, T_G's and psly4mne's time builds can irresistably show up in the rest of the D&D universe. If you obtain infinite power there, you can come to the rest of the planes. Dueling infinites. :) Welcome to the club 1337ninja.
Callix 10-05-07, 10:55 PM	... which can then be made permanent via Manipulate Form and you can actually dismiss your infinite damage loop, if you want. ...I still like the whole nut-pun theory somewhat suspicious - if the Ice Assassin is dismissed, common sense might dictate that the divine ranks go *poof* as well -- although there's a counter-proof in FR, I believe - the Power Divine seems to be something separate from the existence of a specific god, a lot of the time. Frankly, I'd like to see an alternate way of gaining Divine Ranks, but I doubt there is one. Bobs is a way of gaining arbitrary divine rank. He can diplomance a god to get DvR 1 as a proxy. Take this as a given. A god makes Bob his proxy. Since all the Bobs are Bob, each of them has Divine Rank 1. Each of the Bobs gives that divine rank to one of his followers. One of the Bobs, call him "Overbob", then recalls Bobs' divine rank. Since Overbob is, for all intents and purposes, all Bobs, he recalls all Bobs' divine ranks, and has divine rank #Bobs. Since 1337Ninja has shown that Bobs can produce any number (and quite possibly an infinite number) of Bobs in six seconds, Overbob has arbitrary/infinite divine rank. He needs to keep the target god on side, but that god is Fanatical about Bobs, and he can pick any god of his choice. Alternatively, he can use his arbitrary Wisdom (Fusion abuse with WRT time-compression) and a fused cleric cohort to use Command Undead on one of the undead gods from Libris Mortis. He can renew it as needed, but now he doesn't need to keep the base god happy.
Senevri 10-06-07, 07:03 AM	neat.
locustechpriest 10-07-07, 10:12 AM	Wouldn't each generation of Bobs from the Bobs Engine have half as many power points, minus those used to fuel the reaction? If so, it is no longer arbitrarily repeatable. If your duplicate dies before the duration expires, no rejoining occurs, and you gain one negative level. If you die, your duplicate remains in existence, and is for all intents you, but with two negative levels. Going off of your root rules here, wouldn't a corpse remain in existence if you rely upon the death of your duplicate to precipitate your own demise? I fail to see why the clone is spontaneously alive again.
1337Ninja 10-07-07, 05:02 PM	Wouldn't each generation of Bobs from the Bobs Engine have half as many power points, minus those used to fuel the reaction? If so, it is no longer arbitrarily repeatable. Fair enough. However, with Leadership, I can get a psion 7/metamind (yuck) 10 cohort to use Bestow Power augmented 3 times to give every Bobs 8 power points. At the time I do the loop, I can use White Raven Tactics to give many psion cohorts a turn every time I go through the loop, and they all use Font of Power. Going off of your root rules here, wouldn't a corpse remain in existence if you rely upon the death of your duplicate to precipitate your own demise? I fail to see why the clone is spontaneously alive again. Hmm. I didn't really look at it that way. *examines rules* Here we go. I assumed the two parts to be connected, but the second sentence simply says you have to die, not as a result of the negative level. Therefore, Bobs can coup de grace himself without using Mindwipe and the trick still works. The duplicate no longer has to die.
The_Mad_Linguist 10-07-07, 05:04 PM	Each of the Bobs gives that divine rank to one of his followers. . I don't like this step. Since all bobs are, for all intents and purposes, the same bob, wouldn't all bobs lose their divine rank to the same follower?
1337Ninja 10-09-07, 07:41 AM	1st level venerable human uses the Pazazu trick that Pun-Pun abuses to gain wishes. He has skill focus knowledge: the planes. Putting an 18, he has the following bonus - 4 (ranks) 5 (Intelligence) 3 (Skill Focus) 3 (Shard) = +15, take 10 and he knows of Pazazu. He gets the genie's 3 wishes, and uses them for 75k worth of platinum pieces. He buys a scroll of Ice Assassin (approx. 30k), a scroll of Shapechange, +10 shard, and a +20 item of Use Magic Device. Together with +5 Charisma and 2 ranks, he auto-passes his UMD check for the scroll. He makes a copy of a random wizard, and uses the Shapechange scroll, making as many checks as necessary. He shapechanges into a gibbering orb, and then eats the wizard. When the poor bugger is digested, our human gets Shapechange and Ice Assassin as spell-like abilities for 24 hours. He repeats the process on unfortunate psions until he has all the powers necessary to go Bobs on the world. So it uses someone else's trick, but it works at level 1. I know there has been Polymorph errata, but I don't know what it was, so it might make this useless. Still, I can find another way if it does.
1337Ninja 10-09-07, 04:09 PM	In case that doesn't work, I figured out a simpler way that doesn't require shapechange. 1. Bob instead makes an ice assassin of a high level psion. 2. The psion manifests mind switch on Bob. 3. The psion performs the Bobs trick. 4. Cohorts fuse to make the individual Bobs better than level 1s, and they use Alter Reality to make the fusions permanent. 5. The mind switch ends. Ta-da! Now we get everything 19 levels early. It uses someone else's Pazazu trick, but give me some time and I'll figure out another wealth cheat to get it working.