Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Tleilaxu_Ghola 11-01-06, 06:49 PM	Complete Mage: Tricks/Combos/Library Purpose: Advance & diffuse the vast wealth of optimization material that is in Complete Mage. This will be done by elucidating tricks and combos that combine the entire D&D library with CMag. Furthermore this thread strives to facilitate optimization by categorizing the class abilities, feats, and spells found in the book. ----------------**********************---------------- Library: Categorized Feats, Class Abilities, & Spells Exclusively Spell/Spell-like Ability Related Categories Bonus Spells (Abilities which grant additional spells known) X Bonus Slots (Abilities which grant additional spells per day) X Bonuses to Spell/Eldrich Blast DC Saves X Tactical Spells (Spells which obstruct, hinder, or re-arrange MULTIPLE objects or creatures, or provide bonuses to MULTIPLE allies) Battlecry (BD: 4 S): +5 morale to damage on a single attack, anyone under charm/compulsion makes a new save at a +2 bonus. Extends duration of bardic music effects by 3 rnds. Caterwaul (BD: 2): Nauseate all in a cone or sicken on a successful save. Caustic Mire (SW: 4): Impedes movement (half speed), damage for moving or not moving through area. Fire effects in area deal +1 damage per die. Caustic Smoke (SW: 3): Impedes sight, damages targets within area, imposes -5 penalty to attack. Choking Cobwebs (SW: 7): Obscures sight, slows movement to half, sickens target. Two overlapping castings reduce movement to 25% and nauseate targets. Dawnburst (SW: 1): All creatures in 10' burst glow like a torch, revealing hidden and invisible creatures. Deafening Blast (BD: 3): All creatures permanently deafened in area. Death's Call (SW/HX 1/1): 1 damage per CL (max 5), fatigues all in area. Dimension Jumper (BD/SW: 5/5 S): Teleport 30 feet per round as a move action. Greater Dimension Jumper (SW: 9): Teleport 60 feet per round as a swift action. Horrid Sickness (HX/SW: 4): Nauseate one creature per 3 CL for rnds/CL. Incendiary Slime (SW: 2): Like grease except if struck with a fire effect it ends the spell's effect and deals 4d6 fire damage. Karmic Aura (HX/SW: 1/1 S): Anyone who attacks you or affects you with a spell in the radius, is fatigued for 3 rounds. Karmic Backlash (HX/SW: 2/3): Like Karmic Aura, except exhausted for 3 rounds. Karmic Retribution (HX/SW: 4/6): Like Karmic Aura, except stunned for 3 rounds. Mysterious redirection (SW/WJ: 8/8): All attackers making melee or ranged (non-magical) attacks against you must make a will save or have a 50% chance to redirect their attack to an adjacent target (or just miss). Nightmare Terrain (AS/BD/HX/SW: 3/3/3/4): Entangle those in area and gain ability to HiPS while in the spell's area of effect. Otiluke's Suppressing field (SW: 4): 20 ft emanation that supresses spells cast in a specific subschool, unless a caster check is made. Pall of Twilight (AS/SW: 3/3): Create a darkness which also imposes a -10 penalty to spot, listen, search, sense motive checks. Disabling Spells (Spells which hinder or damage the ability scores of a single target or otherwise hinder a single target) Arcane Turmoil (SW/HX: 2/2): Dispel Magic + Target loses a prepared spell or spell slot of highest level. Blackrot (DR/WJ: 2/2) Either deal 1d8 damage to a plant creature per round or make a wooden weapon poisonous. Bothersome Babble (BD/HX/SW: 2/2/3): Target cannot speak properly and makes checks to cast a spell. Second casting makes talking painful. Channeled Lifetheft (SW: 5): Depending on amount of time spent casting you deal damage, gain temp HP, and fatigue or exaust the target. Cryptwarden's Grasp (SW: 5): Instantaneous incubation of mummy rot disease on creature touched. Difficult to remove. Discordant Malediction (BD: 5): Every time subject casts a spell with verbal component she and all within 10' are dealt 2d6 dmg. Make a concentration check or lose spell cast. Duration 24 hours. Endless Slumber (BD/SW: 5/6): Put a target to sleep... forever. Escalating Enfeeblement (SW: 2): 1d10 + CL/2 STR damage (max +5) to a target which is already fatigued, exhausted, or has a penalty to a physical stat. Fever Dream (BD/SW: 5/5): Inhibit spell casting, exhaust target, confused on the end of the duration. Finger of Agony (HX/SW: 4): Nauseate and deal damage every round for 3 rounds. Great Worm of the Earth (DR/WJ: 7/7): Conjure a worm to swallow your opponent into the earth. Way cool. Hood of the Cobra (HX/SW: 3): Gain an illusionary bite attack against a single opponent. Deals 1d6 CON damage on a melee touch attack (std. action). Interminal Echo (BD: 4): 2d6 sonic damage per round + -10 to listen checks. Luminous Swarm (SW: 2): 1d6 damage per round and target gains a 20% to all attacks. Melf's Slumber Arrows (BD/SW: 4/4): Imbue an arrow with the ability to put creatures of 15HD or less asleep. Otto's Imperative Ambulation (BD: 3): Force a target to move at least 10 feet per round, provoking AoOs as usual if applicable. Phantom Strangler (HX/SW: 3/3): Create an illusionary nightmare which grapples target and deals 2d6 damage per round on failed will save. Direct Damage Spells (Spells which primarily deal hitpoints damage to multiple OR single targets) Animate Weapon (AS/HX/SW: 2/2/3): Animate a weapon to attack. Concentration required. Attack bonus based on mental stats. Bloodletting (AS/HX: 1/1 S): Weapon deals extra 1d6 damage and 1d6/round for some additional rounds. Boiling Blood (SW: 2): 2d6 fire damage per round for rounds based on CL. A second casting sickens the target. Channeled sound blast (BD/SW: 5/5): Depending on time spent casting, you deal sonic damage in a cone shaped burst. Additional effects for long casting times. Deadly Sunstroke (SW/WJ: 9/9): 1d6 fire per CL (undead and plants take +50%) and fatigues creatures. If temperature > 90 degrees fahrenheit, deals d8 per CL and exhausts. Deadly Lahar (DR/SW/WJ: 8/8/8): 10d6 fire, slow and deal 5d6 fire per round for 3 rounds. Fire and Brimstone (SW/WJ: 5/5) 1d6 fire per CL and sicken for 5 rounds. Jet of Steam (SW/WJ: 1/1): 1d4 per CL (max 5d4) fire damage in a 30' line). Lash of Force (SW: 9): Whip target once per round with an immediate action for 5d6 force damage, or unleash the spell for 15d6 force damage in a 30' line and knock them prone. Lightning Leap (SW: 5): Like lightning bolt except you teleport to the end of the spell and max damage = 15d6. Lingering Flames (SW/WJ: 6/6): Like fireball except max 15d6 and effect lingers for 3 rounds! Cacophonous alarm (BD: 2): Essentially a proximity mine version of alarm. Activates a sound burst. Painful Echos (BD: 2): 1d4 damage per round for rounds per level. Combines well with resonating agony or deafening blast (see combo section). Save or Die Spells (Spells which severely inhibit a creature on a failed save, usually resulting in death) Arboreal Transformation (WJ: 9): Turn a target into a treant under your command for days per level, after which the target turns permanently into a tree. Death Sight (AS: 4): Next attack is considered a death attack (if you have the class ability) with no need to wait 3 rounds. Skill/Utility Spells (Spells which preform non-combat functions or provide skill bonuses) Allied Footsteps (SW: 2): Target knows the distance he is from you (within a 10% accuracy). Works across planes. Attentive Alarm (SW: 2): Like alarm but you know the type and number of creatures which trigger the alarm. Catsfeet (AS/BD/HX: 1/1/1 I): Re-roll a balance, climb, jump, or move silently at a +5 bonus. Climbing Tree (DR/RG/WJ: 1/1/1): Create a tree which you can climb at a DC 5 climb check. Combined Talent (BD: 1): Two creatures can use the skill ranks of the other (max 10 ranks). Deceptive Facade (BD/SW: 2/3): Disguise Self on other creatures or objects. Doublespeak (BD: 2): You and others are capable of understanding eachother, but no one else is. Elemental Eye (WJ: 3): Plant a "wire-tap" which serves as magical sensor for a clairvoyance effect. Familiar Refuge (SW: 6 S): Use a greater teleport to travel to your familiar or bring your familiar to you. False Lie (BD: 2): Make a subject appear to be lying constantly. Ghost Lantern (SW: 3): Make a light that only you and a few others can see. Guided Path (BD: 1): Find direct route to a publicly known location within 1 mile. Heart of Air (DR/SW/WJ: 2/2/2): +10 enhancement to jump checks, +10 enhancement to fly speed, ability to cast feather fall as an immediate action (ends spell). Heart of Earth (DR/SW/WJ: 4/4/4): +8 vs. trip, bull rush, and overrun. 2*CL in temp HP, can activate stone skin as a swift action (ends spell) Heart of Water (CR/SW/WJ: 3/3/3): Gain swim speed, +8 to swim checks, water breathing, +5 to escape artist checks, and can activate [i]Freedom of Movement]/i] as a swift action. Immediate Assistance (BD: 1 I): Subject can re-roll a skill check. Mask of the Ideal (BD/SW: 2/3): +4 competance on bluff and diplomacy and disguise, +4 on cha checks to influence enchanted creatures. Mordenkainen's Trusted Bloodhound (AS/SW: 4/6): Create a dog to track a foe, using your CL as a survival check. Ability Replicating Spells (Spells which approximate the functionality of a currently existing feat/class ability/effect) Near Horizon (AS/RG 2/2 S): No range penalties for ranged shots. Buff Spells (Spells which increase defensive capabilities or grant new forms for a duration exceeding a single round) Adamantine Wings (SW/WJ: 7/7): Gain flyspeed, natural wing attack and a 1-time area effect attack which deals 10d6 damage (untyped) Aspect of the Icy Hunter (SW: 4): Take the form of a winter wolf. Polymorph Subschool... Coat of Arms (SW: 5): Gain shield bonus = 1/3 CL (max 6). Can reduce bonus by 1 to deal 2d6 damage to a target. Critical Strike (AS: 1 S): Ignore concealment (even total concealment). Dreaded Form of the Eye Tyrant (SW: 8): Become a beholder and shoot frickin' lasers out of your eyes... Energy Absorption (SW/WJ: 7/7): gain elemental energy resistance (to all 5 types) and can spend an immediate action to absorb a single attack to heal 1/2 energy damage dealt. Flaying Tendrils (SW: 5): gain 4 tentacle attacks and brain removal ability of a mind-flayer. NOT polymorph subschool. Huzzah! Form of the Threefold Beast (SW: 5): Take the form of a chimera. Polymorph subschool.. Heart of Fire (DR/SW/WJ: 5/5/5): +10 enhancement to land speed, 20 fire resistance, can activate a fire shield as a swift action (ends spell). Duration hours per level. Miscellaneous Spells (Check here for the weirdest and sometimes most potent abilities) Arcane Fusion (S_: 5): Cast a 4th level spell and a 1st level spell in a single std. action by expending only a 5th level slot. Arcane Fusion (S_: 8): Cast a 4th level or lower spell and a 7th level or lower spell in a single std action by only expending an 8th level slot. Crystaline Memories (SW: 2 S): Concentrate for 3 rounds and then rip the memories out of a target. Inflicts 2d8 damage and 2 INT damage. You may view the memories. Enduring Scrutiny (AS/BD/PA/SW: 2/2/2/3): You are instantly notified if a target preforms a certain deed. Genius Loci (SW: 9): (seriously not a misspelling of what's in the book) Create a guardian of an area, which is contingent on an event. Lingering Chorus (BD: 4 S): Continue any one bardic music effect for rounds per CL, reliquishing your need to concentrate on it. Magic Savant (BD: 2 S): You gain +4 insight to UMD checks and if you have 10 ranks in UMD you can take 10! Necrotic Curse (SW/CC: 7/7): hour/level emanation that reverses healing spells to inflict spells unless you make an 11+CL check. SW = Sorcerer or Wizard Spell WJ = Wu Jen spell AS = Assassin Spell CC = Cleric Spell HX = Hexblade BD = Bard DR = Druid S_ = Sorcerer only W_ = Wizard only RG = Ranger PA = Paladin General Format: XX/YY/ZZ: #/#/# T Where XX, YY, or ZZ are the classes which have the spell on their list (as coded above; it will always be a two letter code per class) Where #/#/# indicates the level of the spell for the respective class codes listed Where T indicates casting time. Only swift spells will be noted and will be denoted with an 'S', Immediate actions will be noted with an 'I'. Spells with longer casting times will not have this entry Last Spell Added: Melf's Slumber Arrows General Combat Related Bonus Damage to Weapon-like attack forms X Bonuses to Ranged Touch/Touch/Melee/Ranged Attacks X AC Bonuses X Save Bonuses X Miscellaneous Tactical Bonuses (Initiative, Hit points, etc) X Reserve Feats (Rankings, comments on functionality) X
Tleilaxu_Ghola 11-01-06, 06:50 PM	Reserved for library (part 2)
Tleilaxu_Ghola 11-01-06, 06:50 PM	Defensive Heart of Air (S) + Heart of Earth (S) + Heart of Water (S) + Heart of Fire (S): Gain immunity to critical hits for hours per level. +10 enhancement to jump, 2*CL in temp HP, +8 to resist trip, bull rush, or overrun, water breathing, +8 on swim checks, swim speed equal to land speed, +10 enhancement to fly speed, +10 enhancement to land speed, resist fire 20. All for the cost of a 2nd, 3rd, 4th, and 5th level spell slot. Or, if you're an slot savvy sorcerer, you can do this with a single 5th level slot and an 8th level slot using arcane fusion and greater arcane fusion respectively. Karmic Aura (S) + Karmic Backlash (S) + Karmic Retribution (S): If two or more of these are active and an attacker fails his save against the higher level version he automatically fails his save against the lower level versions. This means if you're 11th level and anyone attacks you with all three spells up, they're stunned, fatigued, and exhausted for 3 rounds. Ouch. Necrotic Curse (S) + Planar Bubble [Positive Energy Plane] (S): Any healing spells within 20 feet will be auto-maximized, and if your check is not beaten it will deal maximal damage. It's a bit of a gamble, but if you combine it with a high CL build (one which has spell power or other such tricks), you should have the upper hand. It'll be a very nasty surprise at least. Precocious Apprentice (F) + scorching ray (S) + Fiery Burst (F): Usable at first level for a human, one can have an at will area effect ranged fire attack that deals 2d6 damage. Metamagic Tricks Residual Metamagic + Persistant Spell: As per the CustServ ruling you may apply persistant magic to touch spells, ergo you can now buff two people with persistant buffs without spending two high level slots. Ring of Might Summons (Item) + Extend Spell (F) + Metamagic School Focus (F): 3/day you can summon any creature you're able to summon with maxed out hitpoints for its hit dice with no increase to spell slot and no penalty to duration. Heighten Spell (F) + Reserve Feats (F): Certain spells contain two descriptors or more. If heightened to the highest level you can cast you can now fuel multiple reserve feats to maximum effect with a single spell. Rapid Spell (F) + Major School Esoterica (Conjuration) (CA): All your summon spells may be cast as a swift action with a paltry +1 slot bump. Energy Gestalt (F) + Born of the Three Thunders (F) + Mark of the Dauntless (F, Dragonmarked): Hit something with an ice spell and then follow that up with a spell that deals +50% damage, slows or fatigues, stuns, knocks prone, and deals half electricity/half sonic damage. Mark of the Dauntless grants immunity to daze, which would be the only downside of this combo. Offensive Lingering Flames (S) + Acid Fog (S) + Caustic Mire (S) + Energy Gestalt (F): Cast Acid Fog first (to lock as many victims in the area as possible. Follow with lingering flames and a quickened caustic mire. Result: Those in the area can only move 5' on a double move, take 15d6+15 fire + 2d6 acid per round (for 3 rounds) and are sickened. Lash of Force (S) + Temporal Reiteration (P): Have the party nomad manifest an augmented temporal reiteration on you right after you exhaust your lash of force. This allows for multiple blasts of force from one spell. Another option is to use Cerebremancer to gain access to temporal reiteration yourself. Major School Esoterica: Abjuration (CA) + Antimagic Field (S) + Arcane Reach (CA): The Major School Esoterica for Abjuration lets you change a personal Abjuration spell or an Abjuration spell that emanates from you into a touch spell and Arcane Reach lets you use a touch spell on anyone with in 30 feet. If you use Antimagic Field it is a nice way to seriously hamper any creature that depends on spells, spell-like abilities, supernatural abilities, or magic items. Darkness (S) + Ghost Lantern (S): A relatively low-cost battlefield control maneuvers, your enemies stumble around in the dark while you and the party can see. Arcane Fusion can pull this off with one action. Eldritch Spellweave (CA) + Vitriolic Blast (Es): Confer the ability to ignore any SR to a direct damage single target spell; causes the spell to deal acid damage and deal lingering damage afterwards. Horizon Goggles (Item) + Elderich Blast (CA) or Short Range Spells (S): Increase the range of any spell or spell-like ability that requires a ranged attackr roll by 50%. It only costs you 8,000 gp. Miscellaneous & Cheesy Tricks Disembodied Hand (I) + Trapfinding (CA) Disable traps from a distance and replicate other manipulative tasks from afar. Stalwart Sorcerer + Greater Draconic Rite of Passage: Stalwart Sorcerer gives more hitpoints than Greater Rite of Draconic Passage costs. Greater Rite of Draconic Passage grants much more spellcasting than Stalwart Sorcerer costs. Combining the two results in a more effective Sorcerer. Magic Device Attunement (Feat) + Magic Savant (S): Suck at UMD? Suck no more! Magic Savant grants a +4 insight bonus (it's a second level spell) and allows you to take 10 if you have 10 ranks. Mix with Magic Device Attunement, and you're guaranteed to activate that wand all day long, even after the spell has expired. Truenaming (Skill) + Immediate Assistance (S): Re-roll that nigh-impossible truespeak check for the low-low cost of a 1st level spell. Alacritous Cogitation (F) + Spells with Long Casting times: Cast any spell with a long casting time, once per day, as a full round action. You needn't prepare the spell, but you must have an open prepared spell slot. Wyrm Wizard or Recaster or Ultimate Magus + Arcane Fusion + Wizard: Combine two spells you KNOW (as in somewhere on your spell book) into a single action. See description for arcane fusion the library for restrictions on which level of spells may be chosen. Rary's Arcane Conversion (S) + Signature Spell (F): Now you can change your prepared spells nearly at will. Who needs a Sorcerer?
Tleilaxu_Ghola 11-01-06, 06:51 PM	Initial Instructions (possible expansion slot) Okay, so I was a fool to think that I could endure the boredom of combing through the whole book myself. My current project is the spell list (and categorization thereof). Next I plan to summarize and rank all the reserve feats. After that I plan on categorizing PrC abilities. In the meantime, I'd love it if any of you would contribute combos, help me categorize spells (in the format that I use PLEASE!), or just make general comments on the book. The goal here is to make a thread which makes using CMag easier. Hopefully with all the librarian tasks we'll quickly uncover some tricks/combos. I am currently up through GREAT WORM OF THE EARTH. (If I missed any let me know). I plan to categorize each and every spell eventually.
Auldar 11-01-06, 07:33 PM	Residual Magic (Lingering Metamagic) Feat + Divine Metamagic (Persistant Spell) = double the number of persistant spells you can cast per day. Combine this with a Metamagic Rod of Extend on each spell, and you can also get each spell to last 48 hours.
Caelic 11-01-06, 07:41 PM	Problem, Auldar...doesn't Residual Metamagic require you to cast the SAME spell the second round in order to apply the metamagic feat for free? That's of fairly limited value in the case of Persistent, no?
Auldar 11-01-06, 07:53 PM	Problem, Auldar...doesn't Residual Metamagic require you to cast the SAME spell the second round in order to apply the metamagic feat for free? That's of fairly limited value in the case of Persistent, no? I don't think so.. I guess it depends on what spells you're casting.. For the low level cleric - casting Lesser Vigor on yourself and another party member for 2 first level spell slots and 7 turn undead attempts is much better than 14 turn attempts. Another example: one of our players has taken the Spellcaster generic class and has selected "shield bearer" as one of his "divine" spells (the DM is allowing "touch" spells to be persisted). This would allow him to cast shield bearer on 2 people, allowing 2 barbarians to get the benefit of an animated shield and still use 2-handed weapons. Lets say a slightly higher level cleric wants to use Mass, Lesser Vigor, but needs to cast it twice to affect the whole party, given it's a limited number of people affected.. The ability to cast it twice so all party members are effected is of great benefit, and still doesn't require another 7 turn undead attempts. Yes, if it's self-buffing, it's not useful. There are plenty of other spells that can be useful if cast twice though. If your DM allows touch spells as "fixed range", then that opens heaps of spells that you would want to cast more than once.
Caelic 11-01-06, 07:56 PM	Okay--if touch spells can be Persisted in this campaign, that's another matter.
Taeldrin Laesrash 11-01-06, 08:33 PM	Archmage's Mastery of Elements and Energy Gestalt synergize nicely. Being able to launch cones of acid and fire that sicken is not only effective, but kinda cool in my mind. Also, wasn't there a load of Transcend Mortality tricks in Caelic's CM thread? Definitely worth looking over. EDIT: Here's more. Lash of Force (Sp) + Temporal Reiteration (Psi): How are you getting 5th-level powers and 9th-level spells? I dunno. But if you manifest Temporal Reiteration after exhausting Lash of Force, you should have another ready to discharge. 30d6 force damage in two rounds is the result. Disembodied Hand (Inv) + Trapfinding (Class): I got this idea from the Doctor Strange build in the UnCon contest here. The build used the invocation to disarm (Pun not intended) traps from a distance. Actually, Disembodied Hand is very useful, being able to duplicate Dancing weapons and Animated shields... Hellspawned Grace (Inv) + Alter Self (Sp): Eldritch Theurges now have an easier way to become Outsiders. Acomplishable at as low as 12th level.
Tleilaxu_Ghola 11-01-06, 09:04 PM	How's offensive combo #3 grabbin' y'all. Simply wicked... especially if combined with a rod of widen spell. P.S.: Anyone else finding Melf's Slumber Arrow's material component amusing?
tsuyoshikentsu 11-01-06, 09:24 PM	P.S.: Anyone else finding Melf's Slumber Arrow's material component amusing?As a theater student at an arts school and as a theater student at an arts school, I find it doubly amusing.
LogicNinja 11-01-06, 09:27 PM	You might want to mention Disembodied Hand + Creeping Eye, with the hand carrying the eye, as the ultimate free-roaming scout--it can find and disarm traps, it can blast (combine with the 250-foot blast shape invocation for sniping action)... pretty awesome.
Tleilaxu_Ghola 11-01-06, 09:29 PM	Okay, all spells through melf's slumber arrows have been added. I'm calling it quits for today. If anyone else wants to carry the torch, I'd greatly appreciate it. I may or may not have time to update on Thursday. You might want to mention Disembodied Hand + Creeping Eye, with the hand carrying the eye, as the ultimate free-roaming scout--it can find and disarm traps, it can blast (combine with the 250-foot blast shape invocation for sniping action)... pretty awesome. I'm not seeing that in the description. All it says is that you can deliver a touch spell that was cast before the hand was detached (ie it can hold a charge and deliver it).
LogicNinja 11-01-06, 09:42 PM	It also says you can use the hand like it wasn't detatched... that includes firing eldritch blasts from it, presumably, since you can fire'em from your hand (and normally would). Since the Disembodied Hand can't *normally* leave LOS, that's not that big a deal... until you combine it with the Eye.
Tleilaxu_Ghola 11-01-06, 10:03 PM	I disagree. The text makes that statement and then expands upon in more detail later within the same sentence. It never says that you can deliver an EB from the hand... it only says you can deliver touch spells/invocations with it that were cast before detachment.
LogicNinja 11-01-06, 10:21 PM	You can use to to deliver the charge of touch spell or invocation. That doesn't mean you can't EB with it. Looking at it now, it says "you can use the hand in all ways as if it were still attached--manipulating items, delivering attacks with a light or one-handed weapon, or even delivering a touch attack..." That's pretty clearly not a comprehensive list; it's an example of some of the things you can do with it. It's pretty clear to me that, since you can use it "in all ways" as if it were attached, you can fire EBs from it.
Tleilaxu_Ghola 11-01-06, 10:26 PM	As Caelic would probably say, just because it doesn't say I CAN'T doesn't mean I CAN. I agree with him for the most part in this sentiment. Note that the sentence you quoted contains no clauses like "such as" which would indicate that the following list is a subset of the possible uses for the hand.
LogicNinja 11-01-06, 10:29 PM	I agree with that statement, too, but this does say you can. You can use it in *all ways* as if it were attached. There's no "such as", but there isn't anything that even implies that those are the only possible uses. I mean, hell, it doesn't say that you can make shadow-puppets, either. Maybe it's CustServ Email Time? If five of us send the question in and get similar responses...
Tleilaxu_Ghola 11-01-06, 10:37 PM	E-mail them if you wish. Here's my logic... if you can call it that. The Elderich blast originates from your square, specifically from your hand. There's no text in the invocation description which would indicate that you are considered to be in the same square as the hand, in fact it would appear that the hand is treated as a separate entitity under your control. The hand is given specific abilities and all of them are stated. One of the reasons why they went out of their way to say that the spell must be cast before the hand is detached is because the hand in and of itself has no ability to cast spells. YOU have that ability, but you are not the same entity as your hand.
Tweedledope 11-01-06, 11:06 PM	You can use to to deliver the charge of touch spell or invocation. That doesn't mean you can't EB with it. Looking at it now, it says "you can use the hand in all ways as if it were still attached--manipulating items, delivering attacks with a light or one-handed weapon, or even delivering a touch attack..." That's pretty clearly not a comprehensive list; it's an example of some of the things you can do with it. It's pretty clear to me that, since you can use it "in all ways" as if it were attached, you can fire EBs from it. Using your logic: there is nothing that says Eldritch Blasts come from your hands. What if your DM decides they form from your face? There is nothing explicitly stating that it comes from your hand, thus, your logic is flawed.
LogicNinja 11-01-06, 11:10 PM	I guess I was assuming that you could fire EBs from your hands. Likely from the illustrations. If your warlock's flavor is that his EBs are eye beams, well, then this wouldn't work. I guess it's one of those "solidly in the 'DM's call' camp" things.
Vaelan 11-01-06, 11:19 PM	A combo that could be used as a sidenote in the section for alternate class abilities... Stalwart Sorcerer + Greater Draconic Rite of Passage: Stalwart Sorcerer gives more hitpoints than Greater Rite of Draconic Passage costs. Greater Rite of Draconic Passage grants much more spellcasting than Stalwart Sorcerer costs. Combining the two results in a more effective Sorcerer. Greater Rite of Draconic Passage is from the Race of the Dragon Web Enhancement. For anyone who is interested in the specifics... The Greater Rite gives you an additional Sorcerer level for the purposes of caster level, spells known, and spells per day. Stalwart Sorcerer takes one spell known of the highest spell level in which you would normally know two spells. Sorcerers gain a spell known of their highest level at even levels and a spell known of their two highest levels at odd levels. Stalwart Sorcerer's spell known will always be taken from one of the two highest levels. In short, when you aren't outright gaining spells known, you're trading a spell known for a spell known of a higher level. In addition to more advantageous spells known, you gain a boost in caster level, additional spells per day, a first-level spell as a spell-like ability once per day from the normal Rite of Passage, and earlier access to new levels of spells. Being a Kobold costs you one hitpoint per level due to their Constitution penalty, the normal Rite of Passage costs an additional hitpoint, and the Greater Rite of Passage costs 3 more, for a total cost of 24 hitpoints. Stalwart Sorcerer grants two additional hitpoints per Sorcerer level, meaning it takes 12 levels to balance the cost. Obviously you'll want to jump into a Prestige Class, but the 6 levels of Sorcerer required will negate half of the hitpoint cost. Overall, it is a pretty sweet deal for a Sorcerer.
Tleilaxu_Ghola 11-01-06, 11:29 PM	Very nice! ^^
Lafing Cat 11-01-06, 11:29 PM	A combo that could be used as a sidenote in the section for alternate class abilities... Stalwart Sorcerer + Greater Draconic Rite of Passage: Stalwart Sorcerer gives more hitpoints than Greater Rite of Draconic Passage costs. Greater Rite of Draconic Passage grants much more spellcasting than Stalwart Sorcerer costs. Combining the two results in a more effective Sorcerer. Greater Rite of Draconic Passage is from the Race of the Dragon Web Enhancement. For anyone who is interested in the specifics... The Greater Rite gives you an additional Sorcerer level for the purposes of caster level, spells known, and spells per day. Stalwart Sorcerer takes one spell known of the highest spell level in which you would normally know two spells. Sorcerers gain a spell known of their highest level at even levels and a spell known of their two highest levels at odd levels. Stalwart Sorcerer's spell known will always be taken from one of the two highest levels. In short, when you aren't outright gaining spells known, you're trading a spell known for a spell known of a higher level. In addition to more advantageous spells known, you gain a boost in caster level, additional spells per day, a first-level spell as a spell-like ability once per day from the normal Rite of Passage, and earlier access to new levels of spells. Being a Kobold costs you one hitpoint per level due to their Constitution penalty, the normal Rite of Passage costs an additional hitpoint, and the Greater Rite of Passage costs 3 more, for a total cost of 24 hitpoints. Stalwart Sorcerer grants two additional hitpoints per Sorcerer level, meaning it takes 12 levels to balance the cost. Obviously you'll want to jump into a Prestige Class, but the 6 levels of Sorcerer required will negate half of the hitpoint cost. Overall, it is a pretty sweet deal for a Sorcerer. Being a Dragonborn Kobold to negate the loss of the one hitpoint per level, and don't sweat the 4 you lose from the RoP/GRop seems like a better idea to me. Then you don't lose *any* spellcasting, and are only down 4 HP.
Bill Bisco: Average Adventurer 11-02-06, 12:10 AM	Well let's see. Earlier I made a thread detailing some ridiculousness that's possible with Greater Arcane Fusion and Arcane Fusion. http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=728842 Arcane Fusion +Celerity+ Favor of the Martyr = as many 5th level or higher slots means as many actions you can have in one round+1 first level spell every time. Greater Arcane Fusion+Celerity+ Favor of the Martyr = Potentially 2 celerities +1 first level spell. Basically, Arcane Fusion lets you abuse swift actions since normally you can only have one per round. But Arcane Fusion turns both spells into a Standard Action, and Celerity will give you as many standard actions as you want. Now, metamagic these spells and combine them with Arcane Spellsurge. FUN! :D This thread dealt with one of the interesting items there. The rod of many wands. This item makes the feats required to get dual-wand wielder a waste since it lets you do exactly what it can do and even better. http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?p=10424099 One combo would be Rod of many Wands + metamagic Spell Trigger. With this you basically emulate what an incantarix can do (and artificers too), just with the stipulation of no higher than 9th level equivalent.
progresslevel9 11-02-06, 12:20 AM	Interesting Offensive combo, that was noticed on the boards alilwhile ago: Unseen Seer can advance Skirmish Dice, by 4d6. Note how easy Skirmish dice is to apply. So, with a minimum possible dice pool of 5d6, you can: Arcane Thesis'd Scorching Ray: Twinned, Split at the least + 5d6 Skirmish pool + having a Move action left because the spell is a std. This gives you 8 ray attacks dealing 9d6 fire damage each, minimum; 72d6 fire damage. Before more metamadness. The Spell will be 6th level, or you can quicken it as a 9th level spell. And then you have 9d6 fire * 16, or 144d6 fire. Mind you, Energy Substitution is free under arcane thesis. Use accordingly. You also get at least +1 dodge AC. :D For some strange reason, this reminds me intensely of Zone of Enders. Well-endowed Warforged, FTW? Also works bloody wonders with Blue Dragon Lineage from dragon magic.
Tleilaxu_Ghola 11-02-06, 12:30 AM	Nice progresslevel9, the same could be done with sneak attack and would be much easier to bump to insane levels, however. Either way, you've found a fairly wicked combo. I'll write it as: Sneak Attack (CA) OR Skirmish (CA) + Unseen Seer (PrC) + Scorching Ray: With three rays and full unseen seer progression you're looking at a minimum of 5d6 additional skirmish or sneak attack damage per ray. With feats like martial stance (assassin's stance) and magic items in the DMG II, you could bump your sneak attack up by +3d6 per ray. Now we're talking at least 27d6 fire damage with a single low level spell. Metamagic is your friend. @Bill Bisco: Average Adventurer, could you compile some of those spiffy tricks into the format I use? I don't want to forget your post, but I'm too lazy to comb through those threads myself and figure out how to condense them into a few tricks.
Auldar 11-02-06, 12:31 AM	+ having a Move action left because the spell is a std. Nasty, however don't you have to have moved at least 10' already to get skirmish damage?
LogicNinja 11-02-06, 12:32 AM	Er, per ray? It's a volley attack, so the extra damage only applies on the first ray, doesn't it? The reason Skirmish is superior to Sneak Attack there is that it's much easier to enable, with a ranged weapon (i.e. a ray).
Tleilaxu_Ghola 11-02-06, 12:36 AM	Volley attack... that's a term I've never found. To my knowledge as long as an attack roll is made, sneak attack/skirmish applies. There *are* explicitly noted exceptions, but scorching ray contains no such clauses. As for why skirmish is better... yes, I'm fully aware it's easier to get. That's why it's also harder to get more skirmish damage. But with certain spell combos and feats, you can pretty much guarantee sneak attack damage. Sneak attack is extremely easy to come by these days, so that's why I left it open for both. My opinion: the savvy optimizer with a lot of books available will choose sneak attack because it's so much easier to pile on the damage than with skirmish. P.P.S: Split ray isn't optimal for scorching ray, as it only adds 1 more ray. Twin is much better.
Auldar 11-02-06, 12:38 AM	Er, per ray? It's a volley attack, so the extra damage only applies on the first ray, doesn't it? The reason Skirmish is superior to Sneak Attack there is that it's much easier to enable, with a ranged weapon (i.e. a ray). I thought precision damage applied to any attack that required it's own attack roll? ie Manyshot doesn't get it since it's all on one attack roll, but greater manyshot does since it's seperate rolls..?
LogicNinja 11-02-06, 12:40 AM	That sounds right, but I seem to recall that Scorching Ray (for example) wouldn't get the bonus damage on each ray... I could be wrong.
progresslevel9 11-02-06, 12:44 AM	Er, per ray? It's a volley attack, so the extra damage only applies on the first ray, doesn't it? The reason Skirmish is superior to Sneak Attack there is that it's much easier to enable, with a ranged weapon (i.e. a ray). Edit: woops, simul-postale. Hey, maybe there's errata somewhere that we're forgetting? Indead, Skirmish is more viable in that it can never be denied to you. If not too worried about dispelling, however, theres always Greater Invisibility... And yeah, Sneak attackers would have a dramatically increased killing power. Can you say Craven? That would, with a 16 ray volley, add 320 flat damage assuming all rays hit! Most unfortunately, Scorching Ray allows spell resistance.
progresslevel9 11-02-06, 12:53 AM	Oh, Oh, another interesting thing: Eldritch Spellweave (from Eldritch Disciple or Theurge, both get it at 5th) + Vitriolic Blast This allows you to, 3+cha/day, cause a damaging spell of 6th level or higher to ignore Sr, deal acid damage, and have a minimal lingering effect. Ought to be pointed out, an essence can only be applied in this way to a targetted spell, either declared like Magic Missle, or requiring a touch attack. Furthermore, the spell to be modified must be of an equal or higher level than the essence being applied.
progresslevel9 11-02-06, 03:48 AM	Hey, hey, a third interesting thing. Not necesarily so useful...YET. Alacritous Cogitation + Genesis You can create a demiplane with a radius of one foot as a full-round action. If you've reduce person, or something similar active, you can then Celerity + plane shift there. The ultimate escape? ------ Most unfortunate, as a side note, that the SPELL Genesis from the srd, as oppopsed to the POWER, doesn't have the nifty Antigenesis clause. Cuz if it did...that'd be awesome. Planetary Reformatting!
LogicNinja 11-02-06, 04:06 AM	The Eldritch Disciple's "healing blast" ability goes VERY nicely with Dragon's Magic Eldritch Glaive blast shape invocation.
progresslevel9 11-02-06, 08:57 AM	bumpzors. What, T_G, you got a day job or somefin?
Tleilaxu_Ghola 11-02-06, 09:17 AM	Yeah... it's called sleep. :zzz:
progresslevel9 11-02-06, 10:17 AM	Yeah... it's called sleep. :zzz: Huh. How's it pay?
LogicNinja 11-02-06, 10:18 AM	@#$!, I need to get in on this sleep thing. I keep hearing about it, but I can barely remember the last time I had a decent amount of it...
Tyris 11-02-06, 10:19 AM	LogicNinja is right.. it may be in other books too, but i know it is described somewhere in Complete Arcane. there's a paragraph about weaponlike spells which deals with crits and sneak attacks. incidentally, they give the explicit example of scorching ray if i remember correctly.
Tleilaxu_Ghola 11-02-06, 11:24 AM	Page reference if you would please. I've never heard of this ruling. Unless this mystical ruling is found, here's the FAQ text which supports my viewpoint: If a rogue gets multiple attacks in a round (such as from a high base attack bonus or the Rapid Shot feat), can she make sneak attacks for all of them? Yes, but only if each attack meets a requirement to be a sneak attack. For instance, a rogue who flanks an enemy can deliver a sneak attack with every melee attack she makes. A rogue under the effect of a greater invisibility spell treats every attack as a sneak attack, since she remains invisible despite attacking. If later attacks in a round no longer meet any requirement to be a sneak attack, they aren’t sneak attacks. For example, a rogue under the effect of an invisibility spell would deal sneak attack damage only with her first attack in a round, because she turns visible as soon as she makes the attack. P.S.: I may not be able to add any combos mentioned since last night or today until friday... we'll see... it all depends on how rapidly I can burn through my physics problem set.
LogicNinja 11-02-06, 11:32 AM	Found it. It's p.86 of the Complete Arcane, the upper right. "Multiple Hits". Edit: and it says, "when the caster gets a bonus on damage (including sneak attack), the extra damage applies only to her first attack, whether that attack hits or not." This applies to stuff like Point Blank Shot, too, apparently--it shows a Rogue 3/ Sorcerer 7 with Point Blank shot casting Scorching Ray and firing two rays; the first does 6d6 + 1, the second does 4d6.
Tleilaxu_Ghola 11-02-06, 11:36 AM	Well that's completely retarded. Oh well.
Bill Bisco: Average Adventurer 11-02-06, 11:40 AM	Page reference if you would please. I've never heard of this ruling. Unless this mystical ruling is found, here's the FAQ text which supports my viewpoint: P.S.: I may not be able to add any combos mentioned since last night or today until friday... we'll see... it all depends on how rapidly I can burn through my physics problem set. Well maybe you should be concentrating on your homework than visiting here for awhile eh? :D I know this board can get addictive, but school should come first. If you don't update for a few days, it'll all be perfectly fine; the world will not end I promise :tiphat:
progresslevel9 11-02-06, 02:31 PM	Found it. It's p.86 of the Complete Arcane, the upper right. "Multiple Hits". Edit: and it says, "when the caster gets a bonus on damage (including sneak attack), the extra damage applies only to her first attack, whether that attack hits or not." This applies to stuff like Point Blank Shot, too, apparently--it shows a Rogue 3/ Sorcerer 7 with Point Blank shot casting Scorching Ray and firing two rays; the first does 6d6 + 1, the second does 4d6. The Question, then, is would this apply to Blue Dragon Lineage, which is, I believe, a Supernatural Ability, fueled by spell levels...sort of a spell-like weapon-like spell-weapon. Thing. Ultimately, the underlying trick that has caused all this furor is quite simple: The Unseen Seer can advance Skirmish, which is highly optimal for increased spell damage. (though still precision damage...) However, the class itself is the only part of this build which is really related to CM, at all. And the Arcane Trickster can be readily subbed in, for more impressive numbers. Still, a cool thing. I know this board can get addictive, but school should come first. If you don't update for a few days, it'll all be perfectly fine; the world will not end I promise OH YES IT WILL! YOU DON'T KNOW THE PAIN OF OPTIMIZATION WITHDRAWAL! Worse than weening oneself off of a Leprechaun with crack in it's breastmilk, which itself is hooked on oxy. I mean...er.
tsuyoshikentsu 11-02-06, 02:45 PM	Worse than weening oneself off of a Leprechaun with crack in it's breastmilk, which itself is hooked on oxy. I mean...er.Go to bed, man. I myself just woke up from a 12-hour sleep after staying home from stress-induced stomachaches. Do not push yourself, T_G: get your work done. I myself am gonna have hell to pay after misssing two days of school. (On a block schedule, so six 1.5 hour classes and four 1.25 hour ones. A little less, actually, but it rounds to that.)
Richmud 11-02-06, 05:21 PM	Hellspawned Grace (Inv) + Alter Self (Sp): Eldritch Theurges now have an easier way to become Outsiders. Acomplishable at as low as 12th level. Hellspawned grace is a polymorph effect and removes you ability to use your class features so this would be difficult to pull off
Auldar 11-02-06, 05:46 PM	Hellspawned grace is a polymorph effect and removes you ability to use your class features so this would be difficult to pull off Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't that part of the Polymorph subschool update which technically doesn't apply to the existing polymorph spells?
Richmud 11-02-06, 05:48 PM	Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't that part of the Polymorph subschool update which technically doesn't apply to the existing polymorph spells? Hellspawned grace says "This is a polymorph effect (see page 91)." Page 91 is the page with polymorph sub-school sidebar
Auldar 11-02-06, 05:50 PM	Hellspawned grace says "This is a polymorph effect (see page 91)." Page 91 is the page with polymorph sub-school sidebar Ah - so it specifically references the sub-school rules rather than the Polymorph spell rules. Fair enough, I stand corrected :)
Esponer 11-02-06, 07:02 PM	A little late, but about volley attacks (official text): Volley Type Attacks Sometimes, you make multiple attacks with the same attack roll, such as when you use the Manyshot feat, or you make multiple attack rolls as part of the same attack, such as with the scorching ray spell. When you do so, only the first attack in the volley can be a sneak attack. ... With spell effects that allow you to make multiple attack rolls, such as the energy orb spells or the Split Ray feat from Tome and Blood, you must treat the effect like a volley -- only the first attack can be a sneak attack.
Caelic 11-02-06, 07:06 PM	Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't that part of the Polymorph subschool update which technically doesn't apply to the existing polymorph spells? This is a misapprehension. The Polymorph subschool update DOES apply to existing polymorph spells; it's just that the text of the existing spells supercedes the subschool rules where the two are in conflict.
Jackmojo 11-02-06, 07:28 PM	Defensive Heart of Air (S) + Heart of Earth (S) + Heart of Water (S): Gain immunity to critical hits for hours per level. +10 enhancement to jump, 2*CL in temp HP, +8 to resist trip, bull rush, or overrun, water breathing, +8 on swim checks, swim speed equal to land speed, +10 enhancement to fly speed. All for the cost of a 2nd, 3rd, and 4th level spell. Doesn't the immunity to critical hits require all four "Heart of X" spells (and get them some fire resistance and movement increase)? Jack
Tleilaxu_Ghola 11-02-06, 07:54 PM	Doesn't the immunity to critical hits require all four "Heart of X" spells (and get them some fire resistance and movement increase)? Jack EDIT: Apparently I'm a blind retard.... yes of course there's a heart of fire. Will edit accordingly... Okay, minor update: I added heart of fire to the spell list and the defensive combo #1. I also noted in defensive combo #1 that it could be accomplished with a single 5th and 8th level slot using arcane fusion and greater arcane fusion respectively. Not too shabby. In fact, I'd say that arcane fusion/greater arcane fusion is a good thing to have in a staff. I removed the hellspawn combo, due to the polymorph school mumbo jumbo. The trick was inferior to fiend form + draconic polymorph anyways... so it's not a big loss. Will add the other tricks tomorrow. Or later tonight if I have some sort of genius breakthrough. Lagrangian mechanics, for all their beauty, are getting on my nerves... BUT DON'T LET THAT STOP YOU FROM PUMPING OUT THE TRICKS!!!1!1 I'll add them eventually... I swear. Just like I'll add all those builds in the ToB Build compendium to the OP... and fix all the broken links... and update the metamorphic transfer thread... and probably the ToB Tricks thread...:help:
Taeldrin Laesrash 11-02-06, 09:32 PM	Hellspawned grace is a polymorph effect and removes you ability to use your class features so this would be difficult to pull off You're kidding. Darn it. Well, I'll find something else. Magic Device Attunement (Feat) + Magic Savant (Sp): Lovely synergy here. Rogues with high UMD scores take tiny steps towards a full surrogate spellcaster role. Spell Worm (Epic Spell) + Discordant Malediction (Sp): I know it's epic and all, but it's still effective. Spell Worm compels the target to cast all its spells, and then is damaged by Discordant Malediction. Truenaming (Skill) + Immediate Assistance (Sp): Doable with as little as two Bard levels, you'll be able to reroll Truenaming checks if things get ugly. This would work even better with wand of the spell. Murderer's Gloves (It) + Sneak Attack/Sudden Strike: Attack the round afterwards for a free Sneak Attack three times per day. Darkness (Sp) + Ghost Lantern (Sp): A relatively low-cost battlefield control maneuver. Your enemies stumble around in the dark while you and the party can see. Arcane Fusion can pull this off with one action.
Vikjunk 11-02-06, 09:54 PM	Major School Esoterica: Abjuration (Class Feature of Master Specialist) + Antimagic Field (Sp) + Arcane Reach (Archmage): The Major School Esoterica for Abjuration lets you change a personal Abjuration spell or an Abjuration spell that emanates from you into a touch spell and Arcane Reach lets you use a touch spell on anyone with in 30 feet. If you use Antimagic Field it is a nice way to seriously hamper any creature that depends on spells, spell-like abilities, supernatural abilities, or magic items. The trick could also be pulled off with a character that has natural flight like Raptorans with Flightby Attack without taking Archmage, but you need something that will allow you to get away from the creature you targeted since they are most likely going to try to use the Antimagic Field you casted on them against you if they can.
LogicNinja 11-02-06, 10:01 PM	Wow, Vik, that's pretty awesome. :) Too bad it's not availible to gish types because MS 10 is for pure casters... still, it's a great way to disable an enemy caster so your fighter can break him into pieces.
Tleilaxu_Ghola 11-02-06, 10:04 PM	In the immortal words of southpark: Niiiiccce! Serve that ranged AMF with a cold side of orb spells and you're set!
Tleilaxu_Ghola 11-02-06, 11:56 PM	Murderer's Gloves (It) + Sneak Attack/Sudden Strike: Attack the round afterwards for a free Sneak Attack three times per day. Meh... I'm not exactly impressed with this trick... Is anyone else seeing more in this than I am?
Bearded_baddy 11-02-06, 11:59 PM	If murderer's gloves were improved to either allow unlimited uses per day (custom item) [not sure of price]or last longer than one round and be improved invisibility it would be a lot better - you could go into a unlimited sneak attack loop, albeit with only on attack per round.
Bearded_baddy 11-03-06, 03:55 AM	Has anyone been playing with the +'s to CL that so much of this book is concerned with? An abjurer can get a +7 CL bonus by taking two feats and a few classes. Abjurer 3/Sorc 1/Master Spec 9/Ultimate Magus 7 with the reserve feats Magic Disruption and Mystic Backlash has an effective CL of 27 at 20th level. And I know that this is not fully optimized. Heighten Spell (feat) + Reserve Feat dependent on spell level: using low level spells heightened to higher levels to beef up reserve feat abilities. I was inspired by this when looking at the Death's Call spell and realizing that it met the req's for both the Clap of Thunder and Sickening Grasp reserve feats and thought that it would be nice to use the 1st level spell to deliver 1d6/level of spell slot & deafen + sicken as a touch attack all day long (which can grow in damage as the caster does thanks to heighten spell).
Taeldrin Laesrash 11-03-06, 08:48 AM	Meh... I'm not exactly impressed with this trick... Is anyone else seeing more in this than I am? It just came to mind all of a sudden. It could be useful in a stealth situation...Then again, a 2nd-level spell can do this, so maybe not.
Todd 11-04-06, 04:43 PM	A number of folks have commented on the Abjuration Master Specialist's Major Esoterica ability to cast personal spells and personal emanation spells as touch ... but my thought is War Weaver. War Weaver already turns touch spells into close for those in the weave ... when combined with Master Specialist that means that he can actually dump those personal spells at close range. Shield on a teammate at range for instance. A more questionable trick would be Antimagic Field + Sanctum Spell + Major Abjuration Esoterica to dump an anti-magic field on a teammate. Just let the tank get up close to the BBEG and then dump an AMF on him from 25'+ away and watch the carnage.
doobiusPortugal 11-05-06, 06:18 PM	Alacritous Cogitation (F) + Mobile Spellcasting (F) = a wizard that is almost a sorcerer, with less spells per day, but a TON of spells known... Yes, I think Alacritous Cogitation is simply broken...
Vaelan 11-05-06, 06:45 PM	Being a Dragonborn Kobold to negate the loss of the one hitpoint per level, and don't sweat the 4 you lose from the RoP/GRop seems like a better idea to me. Then you don't lose *any* spellcasting, and are only down 4 HP. That is indeed a decent option if you want to be non-Evil and run around hunting evil dragons and their minions. If you don't, either because you believe that your race was created to serve dragons and that doesn't bother you or because they're big and scary, not to mention highly intelligent, then Stalwart Sorcerer is another way to go that carries its own benefits.
Tleilaxu_Ghola 11-05-06, 06:51 PM	Alacritous Cogitation (F) + Mobile Spellcasting (F) = a wizard that is almost a sorcerer, with less spells per day, but a TON of spells known... Yes, I think Alacritous Cogitation is simply broken... Re-read the feat... it's only once per day.
doobiusPortugal 11-05-06, 07:30 PM	Re-read the feat... it's only once per day. Oh... I thought that it was reall weird that they'd let the feat fly under the radar, but oh well... sorry about the mislead! Thanks for the clarfication, btw, I was building a character around the 2 feats, it was just in time.
Taeldrin Laesrash 11-05-06, 07:48 PM	Still, the feat is good for that one utility or damage spell you didn't prepare. But how does Mobile Spellcasting make a build like a Sorcerer?
progresslevel9 11-05-06, 09:31 PM	Or a spell which takes a massive(hours, days, weeks.) amount of time to cast... was trying to think how to break (anti-)genesis with this, but I doubt anything's truly possible. But, if you've got arcane disciple, can you combine this with true ressurection for a nifty, in-combat res? Or is True Res automatically prepped?
Vikjunk 11-05-06, 10:53 PM	Re-read the feat... it's only once per day. It might be only once per day but there would be nothing like using a Shadowcraft Mage with Arcane Disciple (Creation) to emulate True Creation for Primal Essence the first round then use the Primal Essence as the component for Ice Assassin with Alacritous Cogitation the next round. It would be funny to see your DM’s face if you do that to copy DM’s BBEG against him well fighting him. Admittedly I would never try to pull this off since it would kill the fun of adventuring if it was too easily and I would hate to see what the DM throws at you if you made his BBEG look like a wimp. But I might make a copy of a powerful monster as a last resort. If you’re wonder what Primal Essence is, it is an optional material component that replace any other, but it you have to use a pinch of it for each 100 gp the material component would costs. I figure if you measuring cubic feet of Primal Essence you should have enough to copy just about anything since you would need 2,000 pinch’s for the diamond component but how many pinches do you think are in at least 15 cubic feet? It should be enough to cover the cost of any creatures toe nail clippings or what every with the reminder of the Primal Essence. The main use of Alacritous Cogitation is to cast a spell that has a long casting time that is longer then a full round quickly. Like I could see a cunning player sneaking into a fortress and casting Teleporting Circle to make it easy for an assault the fortress, as where it would have been normally 10 minutes to cast normally which would make it default to find a place to hide long enough to pull off, as were with Alacritous Cogitation you could cast it in a full round. But Alacritous Cogitation is way too limited for characters since there are only a few long casting time spells and few of those that you could want to be able to cast on the fly.
Tleilaxu_Ghola 11-05-06, 11:23 PM	yeah... primal essence abuse. Now that might just be worthy of a whole thread.
FromTheShadows 11-05-06, 11:30 PM	I don't have anything in specific to suggest to go with these things, but... There has to be something that can be done with the Horizon Goggles; something out there has to benefit from a free 50% range extension to all ranged attack spells and spell-likes.
Tleilaxu_Ghola 11-05-06, 11:33 PM	Off hand... orb spells could use the range boost.
Vikjunk 11-05-06, 11:43 PM	I don't have anything in specific to suggest to go with these things, but... There has to be something that can be done with the Horizon Goggles; something out there has to benefit from a free 50% range extension to all ranged attack spells and spell-likes. Most I've seen people exited about Horizon Goggles is for Warlocks since they suffer from lack of range. Even with Eldritch Spear doesn't come close to long ranged spells.
Taeldrin Laesrash 11-11-06, 12:33 PM	Occular Spell (Meta) + Lens of Rays Widening (It) + Eldritch Spellweave (Cl) + Vitrolic Blast (Inv) + Vecna's Malevolent Whisper (Sp): Takes a load of stuff to do, but when you pull it off, boy is it sweet. Lens of Ray Widening can turn your Occular spells into 60-ft. cones. With Vitrolic Blast and Eldritch Spellweave, your Malevolent Whisper spell is now a 60-ft. acidic cone that reduces every target to -9 HP regardless of SR, and deals extra damage the next turn to finish them off. Requires LoM and CA in addition to CM. Extend Spell (Meta) + Ring of Mighty Summons (It) + Metamagic School Focus (Conj) (Ft): The latter maxes out your conjured creature's HP at the cost of halving the duration. Extend Spell doubles the duration, without cost if you've got Metamagic School Focus (Conjuration).
jedrious 11-11-06, 01:38 PM	Occular Spell (Meta) + Lens of Rays Widening (It) + Eldritch Spellweave (Cl) + Vitrolic Blast (Inv) + Vecna's Malevolent Whisper (Sp): Takes a load of stuff to do, but when you pull it off, boy is it sweet. Lens of Ray Widening can turn your Occular spells into 60-ft. cones. With Vitrolic Blast and Eldritch Spellweave, your Malevolent Whisper spell is now a 60-ft. acidic cone that reduces every target to -9 HP regardless of SR, and deals extra damage the next turn to finish them off. Requires LoM and CA in addition to CM. not as useful as you think, ocular spell doesn't remove special requirements of targets meaning you'd need each person to have 10 hp or less first
Tleilaxu_Ghola 11-11-06, 02:54 PM	Has anyone been playing with the +'s to CL that so much of this book is concerned with? An abjurer can get a +7 CL bonus by taking two feats and a few classes. Abjurer 3/Sorc 1/Master Spec 9/Ultimate Magus 7 with the reserve feats Magic Disruption and Mystic Backlash has an effective CL of 27 at 20th level. And I know that this is not fully optimized. Heighten Spell (feat) + Reserve Feat dependent on spell level: using low level spells heightened to higher levels to beef up reserve feat abilities. I was inspired by this when looking at the Death's Call spell and realizing that it met the req's for both the Clap of Thunder and Sickening Grasp reserve feats and thought that it would be nice to use the 1st level spell to deliver 1d6/level of spell slot & deafen + sicken as a touch attack all day long (which can grow in damage as the caster does thanks to heighten spell). I like the combo you mentioned... using certain low level spells with two or more descriptors to fuel multiple reserve feats is genius. The competance bonus to CL from reserve feats is purely gravy. Master specialist is just full of surprises. Like check out this combo: Rapid Spell (F) + Major School Esoterica (Conjuration): All your summon spells may be cast as a swift action with a paltry +1 slot bump. Necromancy focus gives immunity to energy drain, ability damage, ability drain, and negative levels at 7th level of the PrC when you cast a necrospell. That's pretty handy! The major school for necromancy is a beast for a BBEG... all undead in 60' get fast healing 10!
Taeldrin Laesrash 11-11-06, 09:00 PM	not as useful as you think, ocular spell doesn't remove special requirements of targets meaning you'd need each person to have 10 hp or less first It's the little things that get me. Still, the spell can be replaced with almost any other spell, like Seed of Undeath, or Finger of Death, or even a touch spell containing Word of Change via Greater Spellblast.
Tleilaxu_Ghola 11-11-06, 10:06 PM	Think bigger my friend, think bigger... or rather, think lower level ubar spells. Ocular spell -> Necrotic Cyst -> Lens of ray widening -> Necrotic tumor = Dominate everyone in a cone and turn them permanently into your slaves.
Bearded_baddy 11-11-06, 10:13 PM	I really want someone to help me seriously look at the Vecna spells from this book. I have been trying to figure out how to use Disruptive Field plus a metamagicked Vecna's Whisper to really be able to do some viscious battlefield control. Someone smarter than me should really help me out because I see a lot of potential in this spell, I am just not as good at getting it to shine - I am not new to D&D, just new to optimizing and it's twisted ways of doing things, but I love it!
Taeldrin Laesrash 11-12-06, 09:54 AM	Think bigger my friend, think bigger... or rather, think lower level ubar spells. Ocular spell -> Necrotic Cyst -> Lens of ray widening -> Necrotic tumor = Dominate everyone in a cone and turn them permanently into your slaves. How about a Twinned spirit worm (SpC)? All targets take 2 points of Constitution damage each round at the cost of a fifth-level spell slot (7th to make it Occular). Disintegrate may be a bit overdone, but think about it. You could probably take down a castle single-handedly with these. And what about buffing? Imagine making a 60 ft. cone of Tenser's transformation! That's a real mob there. Or false life for loads of extra HP, or even greater invisibility. I really want someone to help me seriously look at the Vecna spells from this book. I have been trying to figure out how to use Disruptive Field plus a metamagicked Vecna's Whisper to really be able to do some viscious battlefield control. Someone smarter than me should really help me out because I see a lot of potential in this spell, I am just not as good at getting it to shine - I am not new to D&D, just new to optimizing and it's twisted ways of doing things, but I love it! To heck with disruptive field-Try a consumptive field.
A_Wizard_for_Breakfast 11-13-06, 03:00 AM	I don't know if anybody's put this forward yet, but Ultimage Magus + Residual Magic + Any metamagic heavy build The Residual Magic feat offers all sorts of goodness for any metamagic heavy build. Interestingly enough, it also doesn't specify something: class spell list. This allows you to do some, potentially, brilliant things. Consider... Sorc 1/Wiz 4/UM 10/Shadowcraft Mage 5 Cast a heightened Minor Image with all of the abuse normally heaped onto it. Next round, use one of your 1st level spells as a sorcerer to cast another Minor Image. This one is also heightened. I suppose you could also apply the heighten spell feat to greater effect, raising the level of the second spell to one higher than the first. This because it only restricts the feat and the spell. This is, admittedly, a bit sketchy. Any thoughts on how/if this might interact with Metamagic Spell Trigger?
Atherlos 11-13-06, 11:35 AM	Can Alacritous Cogitation be combined with the Symbol spells (PHB)? No books with me but I think the Symbol spells have casting times of 10 min and are quite powerful.
Taeldrin Laesrash 11-13-06, 07:09 PM	Can Alacritous Cogitation be combined with the Symbol spells (PHB)? No books with me but I think the Symbol spells have casting times of 10 min and are quite powerful. Alacritous Cogitation (F) + Spells with Long Casting times: Cast any spell with a long casting time, once per day, as a full round action. You needn't prepare the spell, but you must have an open prepared spell slot. ...
Necromas 12-12-06, 08:36 PM	They don't mention the lightning bolt reserve feat allowing a save, which, sans errata which will surely fix it to have a save, would make it the strongest DD reserve feat.
daraknor 12-13-06, 11:27 AM	My DM didn't allow Persistence from Complete Arcanist, but did allow Incantrix from PGtF. The combo would have been this: Persistence instant metamagic (Incantrix lvl7 ability) on any spell. The worst abuse would be timestop. 24 hours to play around in a dungeon, loot everything, cast the rest of your spell book, rememorize your entire spell book and cast it all again, then memorize it a third time for use. Mix in some teleport spells, and you can empty out your bag of holding a few times into your keep as a standard action. There are no DC checks to roll, it takes only 1 spell, and you can use the ability 1 time per day. Since 24 hours have passed, you can use the ability again immediately, with your refreshed spell book. At 9th level, you can do this twice per day allowing instant metamagic feats during the 24 hour break you have. No Spell resistance, No saving throws, traps won't affect you in time stop. If someone tries to counterspell you, the effective spell level is 15. (9+6) I think this is an instant win? You can't kill anyone in TimeStop, but you can imprison them, unshrink cages weighing thousands of pounds on top of them, put them in giant vats of water or acid, etc. Cage of drowning doom. I also thought about causing a cave in on a dragon after the entire cave had been looted.
NoldorForce 12-13-06, 12:19 PM	Instant Metamagic was errata'd to disallow boosting a spell to a higher effective slot than can be normally cast; thus Instant Metamagic would not work on 9th-level spells in most cases (excepting stuff like Arcane Thesis).
daraknor 12-13-06, 03:18 PM	I found about 4 places (after I posted this) describing multiple reasons why persistent time stops aren't legal, one being an errata from Wizards. http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=407298 said: Despite it being technically legal, Wizards has deemed Time Stop not persistable by saying that the 1d4+1 rounds is "effectively instaneous" for the purpose of Persistant Spell. I also didn't know Complete Mage was a book until much later, and now I realize my previous post was off topic as well. My first post was a botch, I'll try to do better. Time for me to shut up and read more :) on to the Incantrix... I wish search worked :( google isn't as effective.
FromTheShadows 12-13-06, 08:42 PM	You may want to mention that the Major School Esoterica abilities only function thrice a day. In particular, this makes the Conjuration one seem much less useful; Rapid Spell + Arcane Spellsurge could easily do better.
Pauper 12-13-06, 09:54 PM	Something I'm finding interesting when putting together possible builds: Metamagic School Focus Normally, when a feat or class ability allows you to reduce the effective 'level bump' of a metamagic feat, it specifies that you can't reduce the effective bump below 1. This feat doesn't contain that text. And before you go all Caelic on me and say 'just because it doesn't say not-X doesn't mean you can X', check out the sample Master Specialist on p.73 - the one with Silent hold person prepared as a third level spell, and Extended mass hold person prepared as a seventh level spell. You can also take it as a wizard bonus feat, preserving your 'regular' feats for, say, Arcane Thesis? There's also potential when combined with the Focused Specialist alternative class feature (p.34), which costs you a third prohibited school and a general spell slot per spell level in order to gain two additional specialist slots per spell level (for a total of three). If over half the spells you're going to prepare every day are from a single school, you may as well give them more bang for the buck, right? -- Pauper
Pauper 12-13-06, 10:00 PM	Oh, one more thing - the obligatory 'broken with Precocious Apprentice' combo: Precocious Apprentice (F) + scorching ray (S) + Fiery Burst (F) Precocious Apprentice, you all know - it gives you a second level spell slot that you have to make a caster level check to successfully cast. Fiery Burst is a reserve feat that requires you to be able to cast 2nd-level spells; it grants you the ability to produce as a standard action, at will, as a supernatural ability, a 5ft burst of flame out to a 30ft range, doing 1d6 fire damage for each level of the highest level [Fire] spell you have prepared. (Reflex half) So as a first level human wizard (or any other race that grants a bonus feat), you can grant yourself the ability to throw 2d6 bursts of flame around the battlefield as long as you like. -- Pauper
Santherus 12-14-06, 03:24 AM	[Ignore - beaten to the punch already]
Taeldrin Laesrash 12-28-06, 10:32 AM	Has anyone done this? Rary's Arcane Conversion (Sp) + Signature Spell (Ft): Now you can change your prepared spells nearly at will. Who needs a Sorcerer?
Endarire 12-28-06, 12:23 PM	Unearthed Arcana's rapid summoning conjurer variant + Complete Mage's master conjurer's major school esoterica = the potential for every conjuration spell to become swift. -EE
LogicNinja 12-28-06, 02:58 PM	Isn't major esoterica, y'know, thrice/day?
Subedei 01-06-07, 06:39 PM	Energy Gestalt (F) + Born of the Three Thunders (F) + Mark of the Dauntless (F, Dragonmarked): Hit something with an ice spell and then follow that up with a spell that deals +50% damage, slows or fatigues, stuns, knocks prone, and deals half electricity/half sonic damage. Due to Mark of the Dauntless you are not dazed by this.
Tleilaxu_Ghola 01-06-07, 07:40 PM	New combos added, up through phantasmal strangler in the spell library. Hopefully more to come... it's going slowly though.
Subedei 01-08-07, 10:20 AM	Wyrm Wizard or Recaster or Ultimate Magus + Arcane Fusion + Wizard: Combine two spells you KNOW (as in somewhere on your spell book) into a single action. See description for arcane fusion the library for restrictions on which level of spells may be chosen. I'm not so sure about this: When you cast this spell, choose any 1st level sorcerer spell you know and any 4th level or lower sorcerer spell you know. Sounds like it needs to be on your sorcerer spells known list. I can see the case for saying "sorcerer spell" just means sorcerer/wizard spell but that reading just doesn't seem to make as much sense. Frankly I'd rather be wrong as this combo sounds quite fun =)
Tleilaxu_Ghola 01-08-07, 10:25 AM	Ah, well in the case of ultimate magus you can add any wizard spell you know to your Sorcerer known spells. 'Course that's not as unlimited as the combo seems to imply. I'll look it over later.
mercury529 01-08-07, 11:38 AM	Has anyone done this? Rary's Arcane Conversion (Sp) + Signature Spell (Ft): Now you can change your prepared spells nearly at will. Who needs a Sorcerer? This would require using 6th level spell slots and up to trade out a spell you prepared in another slot (unless I am missing something). Effectively you would be losing high level spells to gain a little more flexibility. Generally I'd consider this a bad trade off. As a casted spell, I think Rary's Arcane Conversion is a pretty bad deal. However, having scrolls of them could prove very useful.
Evandariel 01-08-07, 02:24 PM	Sneak Attack (CA) OR Skirmish (CA) + Unseen Seer (PrC) + Scorching Ray: With three rays and full unseen seer progression you're looking at a minimum of 5d6 additional skirmish or sneak attack damage per ray. Err... did anyone notice page 86 of complete arcane? There is a section in the second column about spells that have multiple attacks, and even specifically mentions scorching ray. It says you gain SA or precision damage only with the first ray. Did I miss some errata or more recent rules change?
Caelic 01-08-07, 06:08 PM	Err... did anyone notice page 86 of complete arcane? There is a section in the second column about spells that have multiple attacks, and even specifically mentions scorching ray. It says you gain SA or precision damage only with the first ray. Did I miss some errata or more recent rules change? Not to the best of my knowledge. Unless I also missed something, the rules regarding precision damage and volley attacks are still in effect.
Taeldrin Laesrash 01-08-07, 07:31 PM	This would require using 6th level spell slots and up to trade out a spell you prepared in another slot (unless I am missing something). Effectively you would be losing high level spells to gain a little more flexibility. Generally I'd consider this a bad trade off. As a casted spell, I think Rary's Arcane Conversion is a pretty bad deal. However, having scrolls of them could prove very useful. You've got a point. Then again, my games don't have much time for creating items. I think that the spell is certainly better than Rary's Mnemonic Enhancer. Also, I feel the opposite way about power vs flexibility. With certain low-level spells, you can do a lot.
Tleilaxu_Ghola 01-08-07, 08:01 PM	Err... did anyone notice page 86 of complete arcane? There is a section in the second column about spells that have multiple attacks, and even specifically mentions scorching ray. It says you gain SA or precision damage only with the first ray. Did I miss some errata or more recent rules change? I thought I removed that one... your concern was brought up earlier. EDIT: Yeah, I *DID* remove that one... why are you bringing it up again?
Valanthe 01-08-07, 08:04 PM	I might be completely wrong here, but I don't think one of the tricks listed here actually works... Precocious Apprentice + Scorching Ray + Fiery Burst. I thought of this immediately when I saw Fiery Burst. But then I reread the prerequisites. It's worded practically exactly like Mystic Theurge, and hasn't it been established that Precocious Apprentice can't qualify you for MT?
Evandariel 01-08-07, 08:12 PM	Sorry Tleilaxu, I scanned the list and then went through the thread, and I must have missed that you removed it. My bad.
jedrious 01-08-07, 08:18 PM	I might be completely wrong here, but I don't think one of the tricks listed here actually works... Precocious Apprentice + Scorching Ray + Fiery Burst. I thought of this immediately when I saw Fiery Burst. But then I reread the prerequisites. It's worded practically exactly like Mystic Theurge, and hasn't it been established that Precocious Apprentice can't qualify you for MT? the only reason PA does not work for MT is that you need a second source of 2nd level spells, thus activating the extra spell slot clause of PA
Zubon 01-08-07, 09:09 PM	Does a Cleric or Druid's Spontaneous Casting qualify for reserve feats the same way a Sorcerer's would? The Complete Mage text is: "If you have x available to cast..." I am not sure which way RAW and/or intent would go. What comes to mind is that a Druid 7 (or PrC variant) always qualifies for Summon Elemental, unless that highest spell slot is burned. One standard action for a disposable elemental, which is not a tremendous boon in combat but must have some utility, especially since you can summon any kind. A Druid 5 also qualifies for Dimensional Reach, which has some few subtle possibilities.
jedrious 01-09-07, 12:53 AM	Does a Cleric or Druid's Spontaneous Casting qualify for reserve feats the same way a Sorcerer's would? The Complete Mage text is: "If you have x available to cast..." I am not sure which way RAW and/or intent would go. What comes to mind is that a Druid 7 (or PrC variant) always qualifies for Summon Elemental, unless that highest spell slot is burned. One standard action for a disposable elemental, which is not a tremendous boon in combat but must have some utility, especially since you can summon any kind. A Druid 5 also qualifies for Dimensional Reach, which has some few subtle possibilities. an even scarier notion, they have a spell of all elements available to them for each reserve feat
mercury529 01-09-07, 12:54 AM	You've got a point. Then again, my games don't have much time for creating items. I think that the spell is certainly better than Rary's Mnemonic Enhancer. Also, I feel the opposite way about power vs flexibility. With certain low-level spells, you can do a lot. I would agree Arcane Conversion is more useful than the Mnemonic Enhancer. However, I would definitely not encourage getting Signature Spell for it. I just find that are better ways to get flexibility than giving up spell slots: Scrolls/Magic Items, Shadow Evocation/Conjurations, Limited Wish, etc. I agree you can do a lot with low level spells, but I don't think the flexibility warrants giving up a 6th level spell slot every time you want to switch out one spell. For me, Scribing Scrolls is still the only really potent use of Arcane Conversion, and if you don't get an opportunity to scribe often, I think there are better spells to take.
Richmud 01-09-07, 09:06 AM	an even scarier notion, they have a spell of all elements available to them for each reserve feat The section on reserve feats at the start of the feats sections states that a spell which has a varying type such as the summon spells don't count as a spell of one of the types it can be.
WombleHunter 01-09-07, 01:16 PM	Bonus Spells (Abilities which grant additional spells known)Master Specialist grants additional spells known from your specialist school for your spellbook. Bonuses to Spell/Eldrich Blast DC Saves Fiendish Heritage (feat) + Fiendish Power (feat): Grants +1 CL and +1 DC for Warlock Invocations and [Evil] spells. Fey Heritage (feat) + Fey Power (feat): +1 CL and +1 DC for Warlock Invocations and Enchantment spells (the two Heritages are not compatible).
Caelic 01-09-07, 08:24 PM	Master Specialist grants additional spells known from your specialist school for your spellbook. To elaborate on this: it seems very likely that the spells in question need not be sorceror/wizard spells. As written, the ability would permit this; intent, of course, is always questionable, but this ability would be basically useless to a wizard if it didn't allow off-list selection.
Wolfwood2 01-10-07, 05:09 PM	To elaborate on this: it seems very likely that the spells in question need not be sorceror/wizard spells. As written, the ability would permit this; intent, of course, is always questionable, but this ability would be basically useless to a wizard if it didn't allow off-list selection. Basically useless? I'm afraid I have to disagree. Getting immediate access to a spell when leveling up is very useful in practical terms. Of course with time, gold, and DM compliance a wizard can eventually track down and scribe any spell he wants, but it's the simple truth that a wizard will never get all the spells he could possibly want. The Master Specialist will always be +1 on "spells I want to get around to learning" over an ordinary specialist.
Golbez57 01-10-07, 06:59 PM	I have admittedly not read the entire thread, but was browsing the book during supper a moment ago and wanted to contribute this one: The Dark Knowledge class ability of Archivists (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20051007a&page=3) (from Heroes of Horror) benefits from a 1-level dip into Warlock to get the Otherworldly Whispers least invocation (Complete Mage, p. 124). Taking a second level for another invocation and the ability to detect magic at will would also be fun and flavorful, but would cost some spellcasting ability in the long term.
eRaz0r 01-10-07, 09:08 PM	I would agree Arcane Conversion is more useful than the Mnemonic Enhancer. However, I would definitely not encourage getting Signature Spell for it. I just find that are better ways to get flexibility than giving up spell slots: Scrolls/Magic Items, Shadow Evocation/Conjurations, Limited Wish, etc. I agree you can do a lot with low level spells, but I don't think the flexibility warrants giving up a 6th level spell slot every time you want to switch out one spell. For me, Scribing Scrolls is still the only really potent use of Arcane Conversion, and if you don't get an opportunity to scribe often, I think there are better spells to take. Ok, I don't have this book yet, but I'm going to infer from this discussion so far that the Arcane Conversion spell is 6th level and allows you to swap some lower level spell you've memorized for a different lower level spell in your spell book. (same level? one level lower? Doesn't matter) If I read you correctly, this comment : "For me, Scribing Scrolls is still the only really potent use of Arcane Conversion," when combined with your earlier comment However, having scrolls of them could prove very useful. indicates that you'd be willing to cast Arcane Conversion from a scroll . If I'm making scrolls, do I make one scroll of a 6th level spell which lets me cast anything in my spell book from a lower level, or do I make several cheaper scrolls of those lower level spells and just pull them out when I need one? I guess it depends on the campaign, the time you have for scribing, the nature of the challenges you usually face and the contents of your spell book.. but you're faced with the same problem (converting a higher level slot to a lower level slot) except that it's costing money as well (higher level scrolls cost more to scribe).
mercury529 01-11-07, 01:13 AM	Ok, I don't have this book yet, but I'm going to infer from this discussion so far that the Arcane Conversion spell is 6th level and allows you to swap some lower level spell you've memorized for a different lower level spell in your spell book. (same level? one level lower? Doesn't matter) If I read you correctly, this comment : "For me, Scribing Scrolls is still the only really potent use of Arcane Conversion," when combined with your earlier comment However, having scrolls of them could prove very useful. indicates that you'd be willing to cast Arcane Conversion from a scroll . If I'm making scrolls, do I make one scroll of a 6th level spell which lets me cast anything in my spell book from a lower level, or do I make several cheaper scrolls of those lower level spells and just pull them out when I need one? I guess it depends on the campaign, the time you have for scribing, the nature of the challenges you usually face and the contents of your spell book.. but you're faced with the same problem (converting a higher level slot to a lower level slot) except that it's costing money as well (higher level scrolls cost more to scribe). Arcane Conversion is a 6th level spell that allows you to unprepare a spell you had in any spell slot, and replace it with another spell of equal or lesser level. So you can prepare a new 9th level spell with Arcane Conversion. I personally feel that most of the time a Wizard should be choosing their spells well enough (make good, diverse choices) that they do not need to sacrifice a 5th level spell on a daily basis in order to get trade spells in another slot. However, it may be worth while to scribe 3-5 scrolls to keep on hand in case that bad day comes along. Why I would generally like to scribe a scroll of Arcane Conversion instead of other scrolls: 1) If they are higher level, it will be cheaper 2) If you want to swap out a lower level slot, you'd have to scroll of every lower level spell you might want. In addition, if you wanted them to be equally potent, you would have to do so at higher caster levels (and how are DCs calculated when using a scroll? Is it just a straight 10+spell level with no modifier?) 3) Arcane Conversion is a cheap level 6 scroll. You do not have to worry about caster levels because it is just as potent at any level
Prime361 01-12-07, 05:13 PM	The section on reserve feats at the start of the feats sections states that a spell which has a varying type such as the summon spells don't count as a spell of one of the types it can be. Ok, I have 2 questions: 1) where are the reserve feats from? and 2) If they only require access to elemental subtyped spells wouldnt a single lvl of warmage do that with the orb/lesser orb spells? I need to check that the warmage actually gets the orbs at first and not later(checking now but you wont notice the long pause, lol). Sure enough, the lesser orb spells are lvl 1. Now to find out how to use/abuse it...
jedrious 01-12-07, 05:36 PM	Ok, I have 2 questions: 1) where are the reserve feats from? and 2) If they only require access to elemental subtyped spells wouldnt a single lvl of warmage do that with the orb/lesser orb spells? I need to check that the warmage actually gets the orbs at first and not later(checking now but you wont notice the long pause, lol). Sure enough, the lesser orb spells are lvl 1. Now to find out how to use/abuse it... well considering this is the Complete Mage: Tricks/Combos Library odds are they're in Complete Mage
Prime361 01-12-07, 08:48 PM	It might be only once per day but there would be nothing like using a Shadowcraft Mage with Arcane Disciple (Creation) to emulate True Creation for Primal Essence... Can anyone expain how this works(books/pages the shadowcraft mage is found)? Combined with a necromancer it would really make it cheap to animate dead. I only ask because I am looking into building a necro for a game I am in, don't like the fighter i am playing. Thanks
carnivore 01-13-07, 07:28 PM	:bump: for the link :D
Taeldrin Laesrash 01-13-07, 08:45 PM	The Shadowcraft Mage is from Races of Stone, and its power is revealed in the Killer Gnome thread. (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=290914)By use of Shadow Illusion, the ScM can duplicate True Creation (Put on his spell list by Arcane Disciple) and make all the Primal Essence he wants.
Richmud 01-13-07, 09:21 PM	Ok, I have 2 questions: 1) where are the reserve feats from? The reserve feats are found in complete mage as previously stated 2) If they only require access to elemental subtyped spells wouldnt a single lvl of warmage do that with the orb/lesser orb spells? I need to check that the warmage actually gets the orbs at first and not later(checking now but you wont notice the long pause, lol). Sure enough, the lesser orb spells are lvl 1. Now to find out how to use/abuse it... Three part answer A) Not all reserve feats require energy or elemntal subtypes, some require summoning spells, others transformation spells, as well as several other possibilities B)Most reserve feats require you to have a spell of the appropriate type of a level higher then 1 C) The higher level the spell of the appropriate type you have the more powerful the reserve feat becomes, so keeping only level 1 spells produces very weak effects (or none at all in several cases)
Prime361 01-15-07, 04:43 AM	Thank you Richmud and Taeldrin Laesrash. I managed to find the feats and read up on them. I have like 50 books and I haven't managed to read thru all of them yet. I was looking into a build with a reach weapon and the reserve feat Hurricane breath to have the ability to knock back foes and get AoO with it, what do you think? Not very optimized but a trick nonetheless and definately useful it you have a hybrid fighter/caster build.
Scottbert 01-16-07, 02:06 PM	Rary's Arcane Conversion (S) + Signature Spell (F): Now you can change your prepared spells nearly at will. Who needs a Sorcerer? [/list] Umm... Unless I'm missing something, that would use up all your 6th level (and/or higher with metamagic) spell slots to change your lower ones... While it is useful to be able to switch one of your spells, having to spend a 6th level spell slot to do it doesn't sound sound like it quite makes the sorcerer pointless...
WizO_Autumn 01-24-07, 10:36 PM	Challenges such as this belong on the Optimization Challenge board... hence the teleport!
jedrious 01-24-07, 10:42 PM	Challenges such as this belong on the Optimization Challenge board... hence the teleport! Point of Clarification: how is a collection of tricks and combos a challenge
Tleilaxu_Ghola 01-25-07, 11:43 AM	It's not a challenge, so much as it doesn't pertain to a specific build, practical build.
Aralen 01-29-07, 02:36 PM	Wild Mage (PrC) + Practiced Spellcaster (feat): Up to +3 CL, you don't have the drawbacks of wild magic. If you have a soft DM, up to +6 CL. It´s easy to qualify for wild mage.
JesterZero 01-29-07, 04:36 PM	Wild Mage (PrC) + Practiced Spellcaster (feat): Up to +3 CL, you don't have the drawbacks of wild magic. If you have a soft DM, up to +6 CL. It´s easy to qualify for wild mage. First of all, how does this have anything to do with Complete Mage? Wild Mage is from CA. Practiced Spellcaster is from both CA and CD. Second of all, if I remember correctly, this is expressly forbidden in the FAQ (although the link to the FAQ doesn't seem to be working at the moment).
EpicEvokerElf 02-02-07, 05:45 PM	Actually, it's expressly allowed in the FAQ, which say that PS is always applied when it is most beneficial (this is just emphasis on the text).
NiteCyper 02-05-07, 10:09 PM	Duskblade can't truly use metamagics due to longer casting time unless he takes the Arcane Preparation feat. Use Rapid Metamagic. I want to post this on Thethan's Duskblade guide on the OOTS forums but I'm not receiving an activation e-mail after 2 days. P.S. I heard somewhere else on the boards, Rapid Metamagic + Quicken Spell. The end.
JesterZero 02-06-07, 07:06 PM	Actually, it's expressly allowed in the FAQ, which say that PS is always applied when it is most beneficial (this is just emphasis on the text). Actually, now that the FAQ is back up, it looks like we're both partially right and partially wrong. :P Summary: Practiced Spellcaster can prevent the negative effects of Wild Magic, but cannot boost your caster level beyond your character level. How does Practiced Spellcaster interact with the wild magic class feature of the wild mage (from Complete Arcane)? The –3 penalty and +1d6 bonus to the wild mage’s caster level are applied as a single step in the process of determining the wild mage’s caster level. Since Practiced Spellcaster’s bonus is always applied when it is most beneficial to the character (see previous answer), a wild mage with Practiced Spellcaster would typically apply the wild magic class feature first (subtracting 3 and adding 1d6 to her caster level) and then add the Practiced Spellcaster benefit, up to a maximum value equal to her character level. For example, if a 5th-level wizard/4th-level wild mage with Practiced Spellcaster rolled a 1 on the 1d6 bonus to her caster level, her caster level for that spell would be 9th (base 9th, –3 from wild magic penalty, +1 from wild magic bonus, +4 from Practiced Spellcaster up to a maximum equal to her character level). If she rolled a 6, her caster level would be 12th (base 9th, –3 from wild magic penalty, +6 from wild magic bonus; the Practiced Spellcaster bonus would not apply since it would increase her caster level above her character level). On the other hand, imagine a wild mage whose caster level (before applying the effects of the wild magic class feature) is less than her character level, such as a wild mage with levels of rogue or other non-spellcasting class. She might well choose to apply the Practiced Spellcaster bonus first, before applying the wild magic modifiers. A rogue 4/wizard 5/wild mage 4 would have a base caster level of 9th before any other modifiers are applied. Adding Practiced Spellcaster’s bonus would increase this to 13th, at which point the penalty and bonus from wild magic would be applied. The Sage recommends that players averse to frequently recalculating caster level avoid playing a character with this combination, as it is likely to cause headaches.
Aralen 02-09-07, 09:17 PM	Ups.. I misread the topic title. Though was CArc: T/C/L
Harliquinn 08-08-07, 12:07 PM	Have there been any further tricks or combos with the release of some of the latter books such as scoundrel and champion?
JonnyComp 08-17-07, 10:13 PM	Hmmm, how about this? If a Warlock multi-classed into Wizard (or any arcane spellcaster for that matter) and prestiged into Eldritch Theurge, while taking, say, the fiery burst reserve feat, could he, using the L3 E.T. Class ability Spellblast, tack on the AoE fiery burst? For instance a Lvl 4 warlock, Lvl 3 Wizard, Lvl 3 Eldritch Theurge could have a Eldritch Blast that does 4d6 + 3d6 fire damage in a 5ft radius around the target. Obviously able to do this infinite times. Add on Eldritch Spear and you can do everything from a very safe distance. Also, if you coupled with the Practiced Spellcaster feat you could use an actual Fireball spell to do some 4d6 to the target and 10d6 fire damage to him and everyone in a 20ft radius. At higher lvls it gets even better since Eldritch Theurge will not only increase your Eldritch Blast damage, but give you higher lvl spell slots for your wizard side to make the Fiery Burst better.... Any ideas on improvement?
SongNSilence 08-21-07, 09:25 AM	Any ideas on improvement? - You could add sneak attack - Caster centered area spells, e.g. Antimagic Field, can be delivered However, generally i think the Reserve Feats combined with Spellblast dont work well: Spellblast needs a full round action. Edit: I stopped because of the spell resistance problem, but my idea was this: Spellthief1/bard2/warlock3/UnseenSeer2/EldrichT3/SublimeCh1/EldrichT5/Incantaix3 The Idea was 9th lvl spells from Bard/Wizard list + persistent Metamagic + all day 1/round 6d6 Eldrich Blast (lvl 11 EldrichT) 9d6 fire (or any energy sub) reserve 2d6 Sneak (+ Stance + Items + Spells ~ 19d6) Sneak attack -1d6 Steal Spell on hit
Soluphobe 08-24-07, 01:19 PM	Spellblast is 'teh L3ET ability!' (Sorry, couldn't resist)
NiteCyper 10-11-07, 06:24 AM	Animate Weapon. Colossal Greatsword. Make yourself super tiny. RAW says the weapon gets the stats of... Just look at it. It's cheesy. I have no freaking clue how much a colossal greatsword costs. This cost is the same for a Small or Medium version of the weapon. A Large version costs twice the listed price. Heheh, instead of a sheath, use a bag of holding. That'd look HILARIOUS!
WombleHunter 10-11-07, 07:51 PM	Hmmm, how about this? If a Warlock multi-classed into Wizard (or any arcane spellcaster for that matter) and prestiged into Eldritch Theurge, while taking, say, the fiery burst reserve feat, could he, using the L3 E.T. Class ability Spellblast, tack on the AoE fiery burst? For instance a Lvl 4 warlock, Lvl 3 Wizard, Lvl 3 Eldritch Theurge could have a Eldritch Blast that does 4d6 + 3d6 fire damage in a 5ft radius around the target. Obviously able to do this infinite times. Add on Eldritch Spear and you can do everything from a very safe distance. Also, if you coupled with the Practiced Spellcaster feat you could use an actual Fireball spell to do some 4d6 to the target and 10d6 fire damage to him and everyone in a 20ft radius. At higher lvls it gets even better since Eldritch Theurge will not only increase your Eldritch Blast damage, but give you higher lvl spell slots for your wizard side to make the Fiery Burst better.... Any ideas on improvement? Spellbast only works on spells.
NiteCyper 10-11-07, 10:20 PM	The original post was dumb. Edit: stuffoh burn.