Complimentary Magic [Archive] - Wizards Community

Complimentary Magic [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Giradius
12-19-07, 01:03 PM Hello all.

One of the problems I have with the arcane magic using classes is the lack of depth to their arts...

A Wizard has served an apprenticeship, probably lasting many years to a senior Wizard who learned their craft in much the same way.
this passing on of knowledge will have occurred for many thousands of years, each new learner bringing something new (if not newly created spells then theories, new perspectives and interpretations of older lore).
The Apprentice is privy to very rich tradition of magic passed down from master to learner, and yet I always felt that D&D has had a very light hand in this subject, you are a wizard you cast spells, that’s it.

If you look at occult traditions in the real world, they have a lot of depth and use complimentary techniques and skills to their art such as Notariqon in the Kabbalah, Alchemy was an arm of metaphysics and the occult, even things such as Herbalism, astrology and palmistry all have occult or pseudoscientific roots (whether magic works in the real world is irrelevant, as it is still an interesting subject from a historian/folklore/anthropological point of view).

So I propose we put our heads together and work out some complimentary skills, these serve the benefit of enriching the magic system of the game in a high fantasy setting but also adding depth and span to a magic uses abilities in a low magic setting (or making the npc Adept class a bit more colourful).

These should be actual game skills (which may or may not require a feat) and should contain magical effects equivalent to level 0 spells (level 1 at best), There probably are rules already for this kind of thing in other sourcebook (WOTC, mongoose or otherwise) but not everyone has access to these, and besides, I feel that the community is just as capable as the official authors.
Giradius
12-19-07, 01:04 PM Some ideas I had were...

Astrology- character can choose a star sign, which comes with a series of skill bonuses and penalties, and also preset advantages and flaws, I feel actual ability score bonuses should be reserved for races.

High Alchemy- formulas and reagents bestow the effects of level 0 spells or feats, the balance for this is that it is often expensive (but cost no xp) and difficult, with high skill rolls being required (and with more outfitting options, circumstance bonuses can be gained, as well as giving the player a hobby with things to collect), for instance a formula which doubles natural healing, a potion which temporarily restores damaged ability scores, a powder which when applied to a weapon makes it temporarily silvered, etc.

a recipe or "Formula" is laid out like a spell description, it has a duration effect and save as well as a cost and a make DC and a requirement , you can learn any number of formulas, in the same way a wizard can learn any number of spells, but because the alchemical processes are so complex you can only make one at a time.
requirements come in 2 sorts, ingredients and components, you only need to provide one of them and using both will not improve the effect of the formula but will grant a circumstance bonus to the creation roll. The difference between an ingredient and a component is that an ingredient is used up in the process of creating the formula, a component is not and can be reused again and again (but perhaps with a -4 circumstance penalty to the creation roll if it has been used before),
so for an example lets use "Draught of might" gives a +2 magic bonus to strength for 2 rounds/per rank of High Alchemy (this is half of what the spell bull strength does and has a tiny duration in comparison), its requirements are- Ingredient: A natural product of a creature with a average score of 18+, such as a ogre teeth/blood/skin/hair/dung etc, OR Component: Something that already bestows a Str bonus must be involved in the creation process, such as a few drops of a potion of bulls strength, stirred with a wand of bull strength, gauntlets of ogre power worn when during creation of formula, ash from a tiny segment of a scroll of bull strength.

As I Mentioned before, the cost of the effect is reflected in the high DC and expense I’ve of high alchemy in general, the equipment should be expensive and so should the recipe books. Possible feats can enhance this form of alchemy such as...
Accomplished Alchemist requirement 10 ranks in high alchemy and/or alchemy (10 ranks total): This feat allows you to create more formulas at once equal to Int bonus (or +1) and gives you a 50% chance of producing two doses of the formula instead of one.
Master Alchemist requirement 20 ranks in high alchemy and/or alchemy, Accomplished Alchemist: This feat allows you to create two doses for the cost of one with a 50% chance of producing a third dose free, it also allows you create concentrated formulas (A concentrated formula has a metamagic feat effect attached to, for each feat effect added you must increase the DC by 5, expend 2 doses of the normal version and at least one of these must have contained an ingredient , and the base cost of the normal formula in gold still has to be paid.)

Herbalism- Works in the same way a poisons but can have positive effects (or positive and negative, such as herb that offers a bonus but is addictive) , balance comes from the high DC rolls to find certain herbs and their expense to buy.

Minor divinations- such as palmistry, reading animal entrails, oneiromancy (telling the future by interpreting dreams),Ornithomancy (divination through interpretation of the flight and song of birds) These should provide very minor divination abilities (level 0 or 1 at a push).

All these abilities are in effect paid for by the need to expend skill ranks on them and possibly feats, in addition xp costs are not needed for items as the bonus is so minor that is not worth paying xp but is worth expending skill ranks (in the magic item compendium there is a similar line of thinking with some minor enhancements that cost gold but don’t bestow an enhancement bonus and so don’t increase the cost of subsequent enhancements.)
Priest_of_Doom
01-02-08, 03:19 PM Wow, I like your ideas :) It makes me think they would be perfect for a dark-ages / fairy tale campaign setting we're starting to develop at Unicorn Rampant. I'm curious if you plan on working this up more completely?

We have some ideas in a different vein about changing the magic system over on our blog.... Here's just one:

http://clawclawbite.blogspot.com/2007/12/variant-rules-for-spellcasters-mana.html
Giradius
01-02-08, 09:57 PM Thank you, its always nice to get positive feedback (I don’t get it very often on here :D)

The magic system is in my opinion one of the most crucial things if not THE most crucial thing in a fantasy game.
The complimentary skills above make all the aparatus and paraphenalia that are often seen cluttering up a wizards workroom actually have a purpose other than to just look cool.
I personally prefer low magic settings as I agree with Prof Tolkiens view that if magic is used too much it stops being special, and prefer Fantasy settings that bear more resemblance to real world ancient cultures or mythologies such as the Celts/Norse/Saxons/ as well as the Romans and also medieval Europe.

I had a look at the variant Mana rules, I HATE the spell slot system and prefer variant Mana rules anyday as I feel it is far more "realistic" if such a thing is possible, I am aware of the balance issues and had ideas to remedy this by introducing rules for "Manaburn" the wizardly equivelent of pulling a muscle,
I would probably move in the direction of a cap that requires a will save if exceeded to avoid a backlash effect (probably a roll on a table involving things like sub dual damage, temporary CHA damage, and penalties to spell casting rolls and/or Caster level from Astral numbness and burnout). The cap could be something along the lines of number of caster levels + caster mental attribute.
The good thing about Burnout and Backlash rules is that they present opportunities for feats and spells to enable the caster to minimize the effect or increase his cap (for instance using magic within a prepared space involving circles drawn of the floor, special incense or a stone circle/ley line nexus etc, or a feat to increase the Manacap when casting certain type of spell) If you also use the variant rule that allows you to substitute your familiar for a staff that increases in power as you level and then tie magic use into this staff (such as give a bonus to a spellcasting roll when using the staff and penaty to spellcasting without it, or have it increase the manacap or even be able to use it as a manapoint battery) you then have a reason for a mage to carry a staff but also carefully guard it more than he would guard a staff of lightning or somesuch.

I am in favour of asking magic users to make an "Arcane Lore" or "Spell casting" roll to cast spells because firstly I believe magic should be not only dangerous to the unwary but also difficult, and secondly it allows so many more options for depth for instance the use of arcane Foci such as wands, gems, traced runes, potions and drugs, and other props to grant bonuses to spell casting rolls, these props should be thematically linked to the particular school of spells for instance a bone crown for necromancy, a brazier and incense for conjuration.
Among these things you can introduce rules for meditation to regain Mana faster, Circle magic, ritual magic, there is also a feat called "Naturally psionic" which grants a bonus powerpoint per hit die, (if you use the same system for gaining mana points per level that a psionic uses then this feat becomes "Naturally magical", add to all this the complimentary skills I have already mentioned above and you have a magic user with depth.

one of the Complementary skills I had in mind was the classic "Sorcerous duel" where two mages attempt to magically grapple each other in a deliberate attempt to ruin each others spell casting (or prevent it completely) without actually counterspelling, I think there are rules somewhere for samurai to stare each other down and this is the kind of thing i was thinking for this, it also makes having a wizard in the party a must so that the group can fight magic with magic, the scene in Conan the destroyer when Akiro duels the Leader, I also suspect something like this would have happening in LOTR when Saruman imprisons Gandalf (although the movies take on that scene was good and shows gandalf not just meekly submitting to saruman, it did not happen in the book and i think a more subtle duel would be more in keeping with the general LOTR flavour).
Giradius
01-05-08, 04:25 PM ((The following content is bit rough and requires fleshing out))

Special components.
Special components are parts of beings or creatures that can be harvested from a corpse that may be beneficial for certain appropriate magical purposes, These are for use as alchemical ingredients and for magic item creation as well as rune crafting and maybe many other applications.
The benefits of such could be the application of metamagic feats, increased caster level, XP discount when created (as the item draws part of its power from the component) maybe even cost reduction.

Here are some very rough guides to what creature provide useful component and what they are useful for.

Aberrations- (Mind flayers, Beholders)
psionics, madness, poisons
Animals -(Wolves, Snakes, Spiders, Birds)
varies, look at natural attacks, movement, high ability score, for example a scroll of Poison written on snakeskin or cloak of light make of Roc Feathers.
* you might want to make only dire/special animals or an animal with a subtype like awakened or feral useable for components as normal animals are very common.
Constructs- (Iron golems, Stone Golems)
animation of objects, repair of objects, maybe physical protection for the metallic golems
Dragons-
any magic as dragons are inherently magical
The Fey- (Dryads, fairies, Satyr)
enchantment and nature/druid spells
Giants- (Ogres, Fire/frost giants)
strength and size, for example gauntlets of ogre power could be fashioned from treated ogre hide
The Undead- (Vampire, Mohrg, Lich)
negative energy, necromancy, death if the Undead in question has a death attack or energy drain
* Maybe only intelligent Undead are infused with enough negative energy to be useful as components
Elemental subtype- (Salamander, Efreeti, Earth elemental)
magic of the relevant element, for example a flaming sword could be decorated with salamander teeth
Celestials- (Gheale, Hound archon)
good aligned magic and healing/holy damage
Fiends- (Imps, Bones devils, Succubae)
evil aligned magic, debuffs and curses and elemental magic of the same type the fiend had immunity or resistance from
Creatures with supernatural, Extraordinary or spell like abilities- (Beholders, Efreeti, Ogre magi, Displacer beasts)
Spell effects or enhancements similar to the ability of the creature, for example a wand of flesh to stone could be topped with a medusa eye.

Obviously not all of these possible components are in the same league (demon blood would be magically more potent with poison than a scorpion sting) and so certain limits but be drawn up, in addition some creatures fall under multiple categories (red dragon falls under dragon and elemental subtype) and in those cases the bonus provided by the component should be increased, additionally any creature can be used as a component when creating a bane item for that species.

Herbalism

Herbs can allow many magical effects even those higher than level 0, but these should be very rare (and as such expensive) and perhaps have a high preparation DC or strange application, perhaps they come from a very isolated or specific environment such as a specific valley or a place of circumstance such as stone circles or sites of mass battles, maybe even other planes and as such cannot be bought except in very select places for very large amounts of gold.

Herbs have an Effect, an Application, a Duration, a scarcity, an environment , and a cost.

Effect- is the effect of the herb when used and includes a DC for preparing the herb so it can be used if it requires special treatment like distilling, effects can range from bonuses to skills, to actual magic effects depending on the scarcity of the herb, some herbs may offer a positive effect and a negative “side effect”, perhaps some are addictive and require a will save to avoid addition or perhaps a mildly hallucinogenic herb which when smoked increases caster level by 1 for all illusion spells or confers True seeing but also causes all skill checks that use Int or Wisdom to be at -5 due to the distractive influence.

Application- This is how the herb is administered or taken, this is important because it details how long it takes to partake of the herb, For instance- Distillation/drunk means that once the herb is distilled it can be drunk like a potion however Salve/applied requires the removal of armour and the mixture to applied to the body which could not be done in the middle of battle.

Duration- This is the duration of the effects both positive and negative.

Scarcity- This is the DC to find the herb with a herbalism roll, and also the amount that can be harvested be it individual or a die number and the amount of time it takes to find, so for a common herb it might be DC 15/1d6/1hour which means you find 1d6 doses of the herb, per hours search, with a sucessful DC15 check, but a rare herb might have DC 40/1/1day in that it takes a whole day to find just 1 dose (and that is difficult).

Environment- This is the typical places this herb can be found, In order to find the herb you need to make your herbalism roll in this type of environment, Forests, grasslands, underground, burial grounds etc.

Cost- this is how much it would cost to buy, it will be cheaper to buy in settlements that are located in the environment the herb grows in perhaps meaning that it is 10% cheaper.
Prime32
01-13-08, 11:28 AM There was an excellent issue of Dragon that dealt with astrological powers, as well as drawing strength from the sun and moon. You could get different abilities based on your starsign, the phase of the moon when you were born, and the time of day. It included magic items that only functioned for some starsigns and exemplified their traits, solar monk and lunar rogue variants, and a "master astrologer" PrC whose magic became more powerful if he knew an enemy's starsign, and at high levels, could actually change the arrangements of the stars to supercharge a spell.
Giradius
01-16-08, 02:05 PM Cool.

I dont suppose you know which Dragon issue it was do you?,

I started this thread with the idea in mind of it fitting Conanesq settings as well as mythological settings,however depending on how big a role magic plays in your campaign it could be used anywhere, it could even be adapted for occult based horror and d20 modern (I see it working well in a Dresden Files type game).

At the moment I am looking into a skill based magic system and I am hoping the stuff in this forum will work quite nicely with it.

Thanks for your reply, i dont seem to get many :D...

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Giradius 12-19-07, 01:03 PM	Hello all. One of the problems I have with the arcane magic using classes is the lack of depth to their arts... A Wizard has served an apprenticeship, probably lasting many years to a senior Wizard who learned their craft in much the same way. this passing on of knowledge will have occurred for many thousands of years, each new learner bringing something new (if not newly created spells then theories, new perspectives and interpretations of older lore). The Apprentice is privy to very rich tradition of magic passed down from master to learner, and yet I always felt that D&D has had a very light hand in this subject, you are a wizard you cast spells, that’s it. If you look at occult traditions in the real world, they have a lot of depth and use complimentary techniques and skills to their art such as Notariqon in the Kabbalah, Alchemy was an arm of metaphysics and the occult, even things such as Herbalism, astrology and palmistry all have occult or pseudoscientific roots (whether magic works in the real world is irrelevant, as it is still an interesting subject from a historian/folklore/anthropological point of view). So I propose we put our heads together and work out some complimentary skills, these serve the benefit of enriching the magic system of the game in a high fantasy setting but also adding depth and span to a magic uses abilities in a low magic setting (or making the npc Adept class a bit more colourful). These should be actual game skills (which may or may not require a feat) and should contain magical effects equivalent to level 0 spells (level 1 at best), There probably are rules already for this kind of thing in other sourcebook (WOTC, mongoose or otherwise) but not everyone has access to these, and besides, I feel that the community is just as capable as the official authors.
Giradius 12-19-07, 01:04 PM	Some ideas I had were... Astrology- character can choose a star sign, which comes with a series of skill bonuses and penalties, and also preset advantages and flaws, I feel actual ability score bonuses should be reserved for races. High Alchemy- formulas and reagents bestow the effects of level 0 spells or feats, the balance for this is that it is often expensive (but cost no xp) and difficult, with high skill rolls being required (and with more outfitting options, circumstance bonuses can be gained, as well as giving the player a hobby with things to collect), for instance a formula which doubles natural healing, a potion which temporarily restores damaged ability scores, a powder which when applied to a weapon makes it temporarily silvered, etc. a recipe or "Formula" is laid out like a spell description, it has a duration effect and save as well as a cost and a make DC and a requirement , you can learn any number of formulas, in the same way a wizard can learn any number of spells, but because the alchemical processes are so complex you can only make one at a time. requirements come in 2 sorts, ingredients and components, you only need to provide one of them and using both will not improve the effect of the formula but will grant a circumstance bonus to the creation roll. The difference between an ingredient and a component is that an ingredient is used up in the process of creating the formula, a component is not and can be reused again and again (but perhaps with a -4 circumstance penalty to the creation roll if it has been used before), so for an example lets use "Draught of might" gives a +2 magic bonus to strength for 2 rounds/per rank of High Alchemy (this is half of what the spell bull strength does and has a tiny duration in comparison), its requirements are- Ingredient: A natural product of a creature with a average score of 18+, such as a ogre teeth/blood/skin/hair/dung etc, OR Component: Something that already bestows a Str bonus must be involved in the creation process, such as a few drops of a potion of bulls strength, stirred with a wand of bull strength, gauntlets of ogre power worn when during creation of formula, ash from a tiny segment of a scroll of bull strength. As I Mentioned before, the cost of the effect is reflected in the high DC and expense I’ve of high alchemy in general, the equipment should be expensive and so should the recipe books. Possible feats can enhance this form of alchemy such as... Accomplished Alchemist requirement 10 ranks in high alchemy and/or alchemy (10 ranks total): This feat allows you to create more formulas at once equal to Int bonus (or +1) and gives you a 50% chance of producing two doses of the formula instead of one. Master Alchemist requirement 20 ranks in high alchemy and/or alchemy, Accomplished Alchemist: This feat allows you to create two doses for the cost of one with a 50% chance of producing a third dose free, it also allows you create concentrated formulas (A concentrated formula has a metamagic feat effect attached to, for each feat effect added you must increase the DC by 5, expend 2 doses of the normal version and at least one of these must have contained an ingredient , and the base cost of the normal formula in gold still has to be paid.) Herbalism- Works in the same way a poisons but can have positive effects (or positive and negative, such as herb that offers a bonus but is addictive) , balance comes from the high DC rolls to find certain herbs and their expense to buy. Minor divinations- such as palmistry, reading animal entrails, oneiromancy (telling the future by interpreting dreams),Ornithomancy (divination through interpretation of the flight and song of birds) These should provide very minor divination abilities (level 0 or 1 at a push). All these abilities are in effect paid for by the need to expend skill ranks on them and possibly feats, in addition xp costs are not needed for items as the bonus is so minor that is not worth paying xp but is worth expending skill ranks (in the magic item compendium there is a similar line of thinking with some minor enhancements that cost gold but don’t bestow an enhancement bonus and so don’t increase the cost of subsequent enhancements.)
Priest_of_Doom 01-02-08, 03:19 PM	Wow, I like your ideas :) It makes me think they would be perfect for a dark-ages / fairy tale campaign setting we're starting to develop at Unicorn Rampant. I'm curious if you plan on working this up more completely? We have some ideas in a different vein about changing the magic system over on our blog.... Here's just one: http://clawclawbite.blogspot.com/2007/12/variant-rules-for-spellcasters-mana.html
Giradius 01-02-08, 09:57 PM	Thank you, its always nice to get positive feedback (I don’t get it very often on here :D) The magic system is in my opinion one of the most crucial things if not THE most crucial thing in a fantasy game. The complimentary skills above make all the aparatus and paraphenalia that are often seen cluttering up a wizards workroom actually have a purpose other than to just look cool. I personally prefer low magic settings as I agree with Prof Tolkiens view that if magic is used too much it stops being special, and prefer Fantasy settings that bear more resemblance to real world ancient cultures or mythologies such as the Celts/Norse/Saxons/ as well as the Romans and also medieval Europe. I had a look at the variant Mana rules, I HATE the spell slot system and prefer variant Mana rules anyday as I feel it is far more "realistic" if such a thing is possible, I am aware of the balance issues and had ideas to remedy this by introducing rules for "Manaburn" the wizardly equivelent of pulling a muscle, I would probably move in the direction of a cap that requires a will save if exceeded to avoid a backlash effect (probably a roll on a table involving things like sub dual damage, temporary CHA damage, and penalties to spell casting rolls and/or Caster level from Astral numbness and burnout). The cap could be something along the lines of number of caster levels + caster mental attribute. The good thing about Burnout and Backlash rules is that they present opportunities for feats and spells to enable the caster to minimize the effect or increase his cap (for instance using magic within a prepared space involving circles drawn of the floor, special incense or a stone circle/ley line nexus etc, or a feat to increase the Manacap when casting certain type of spell) If you also use the variant rule that allows you to substitute your familiar for a staff that increases in power as you level and then tie magic use into this staff (such as give a bonus to a spellcasting roll when using the staff and penaty to spellcasting without it, or have it increase the manacap or even be able to use it as a manapoint battery) you then have a reason for a mage to carry a staff but also carefully guard it more than he would guard a staff of lightning or somesuch. I am in favour of asking magic users to make an "Arcane Lore" or "Spell casting" roll to cast spells because firstly I believe magic should be not only dangerous to the unwary but also difficult, and secondly it allows so many more options for depth for instance the use of arcane Foci such as wands, gems, traced runes, potions and drugs, and other props to grant bonuses to spell casting rolls, these props should be thematically linked to the particular school of spells for instance a bone crown for necromancy, a brazier and incense for conjuration. Among these things you can introduce rules for meditation to regain Mana faster, Circle magic, ritual magic, there is also a feat called "Naturally psionic" which grants a bonus powerpoint per hit die, (if you use the same system for gaining mana points per level that a psionic uses then this feat becomes "Naturally magical", add to all this the complimentary skills I have already mentioned above and you have a magic user with depth. one of the Complementary skills I had in mind was the classic "Sorcerous duel" where two mages attempt to magically grapple each other in a deliberate attempt to ruin each others spell casting (or prevent it completely) without actually counterspelling, I think there are rules somewhere for samurai to stare each other down and this is the kind of thing i was thinking for this, it also makes having a wizard in the party a must so that the group can fight magic with magic, the scene in Conan the destroyer when Akiro duels the Leader, I also suspect something like this would have happening in LOTR when Saruman imprisons Gandalf (although the movies take on that scene was good and shows gandalf not just meekly submitting to saruman, it did not happen in the book and i think a more subtle duel would be more in keeping with the general LOTR flavour).
Giradius 01-05-08, 04:25 PM	((The following content is bit rough and requires fleshing out)) Special components. Special components are parts of beings or creatures that can be harvested from a corpse that may be beneficial for certain appropriate magical purposes, These are for use as alchemical ingredients and for magic item creation as well as rune crafting and maybe many other applications. The benefits of such could be the application of metamagic feats, increased caster level, XP discount when created (as the item draws part of its power from the component) maybe even cost reduction. Here are some very rough guides to what creature provide useful component and what they are useful for. Aberrations- (Mind flayers, Beholders) psionics, madness, poisons Animals -(Wolves, Snakes, Spiders, Birds) varies, look at natural attacks, movement, high ability score, for example a scroll of Poison written on snakeskin or cloak of light make of Roc Feathers. * you might want to make only dire/special animals or an animal with a subtype like awakened or feral useable for components as normal animals are very common. Constructs- (Iron golems, Stone Golems) animation of objects, repair of objects, maybe physical protection for the metallic golems Dragons- any magic as dragons are inherently magical The Fey- (Dryads, fairies, Satyr) enchantment and nature/druid spells Giants- (Ogres, Fire/frost giants) strength and size, for example gauntlets of ogre power could be fashioned from treated ogre hide The Undead- (Vampire, Mohrg, Lich) negative energy, necromancy, death if the Undead in question has a death attack or energy drain * Maybe only intelligent Undead are infused with enough negative energy to be useful as components Elemental subtype- (Salamander, Efreeti, Earth elemental) magic of the relevant element, for example a flaming sword could be decorated with salamander teeth Celestials- (Gheale, Hound archon) good aligned magic and healing/holy damage Fiends- (Imps, Bones devils, Succubae) evil aligned magic, debuffs and curses and elemental magic of the same type the fiend had immunity or resistance from Creatures with supernatural, Extraordinary or spell like abilities- (Beholders, Efreeti, Ogre magi, Displacer beasts) Spell effects or enhancements similar to the ability of the creature, for example a wand of flesh to stone could be topped with a medusa eye. Obviously not all of these possible components are in the same league (demon blood would be magically more potent with poison than a scorpion sting) and so certain limits but be drawn up, in addition some creatures fall under multiple categories (red dragon falls under dragon and elemental subtype) and in those cases the bonus provided by the component should be increased, additionally any creature can be used as a component when creating a bane item for that species. Herbalism Herbs can allow many magical effects even those higher than level 0, but these should be very rare (and as such expensive) and perhaps have a high preparation DC or strange application, perhaps they come from a very isolated or specific environment such as a specific valley or a place of circumstance such as stone circles or sites of mass battles, maybe even other planes and as such cannot be bought except in very select places for very large amounts of gold. Herbs have an Effect, an Application, a Duration, a scarcity, an environment , and a cost. Effect- is the effect of the herb when used and includes a DC for preparing the herb so it can be used if it requires special treatment like distilling, effects can range from bonuses to skills, to actual magic effects depending on the scarcity of the herb, some herbs may offer a positive effect and a negative “side effect”, perhaps some are addictive and require a will save to avoid addition or perhaps a mildly hallucinogenic herb which when smoked increases caster level by 1 for all illusion spells or confers True seeing but also causes all skill checks that use Int or Wisdom to be at -5 due to the distractive influence. Application- This is how the herb is administered or taken, this is important because it details how long it takes to partake of the herb, For instance- Distillation/drunk means that once the herb is distilled it can be drunk like a potion however Salve/applied requires the removal of armour and the mixture to applied to the body which could not be done in the middle of battle. Duration- This is the duration of the effects both positive and negative. Scarcity- This is the DC to find the herb with a herbalism roll, and also the amount that can be harvested be it individual or a die number and the amount of time it takes to find, so for a common herb it might be DC 15/1d6/1hour which means you find 1d6 doses of the herb, per hours search, with a sucessful DC15 check, but a rare herb might have DC 40/1/1day in that it takes a whole day to find just 1 dose (and that is difficult). Environment- This is the typical places this herb can be found, In order to find the herb you need to make your herbalism roll in this type of environment, Forests, grasslands, underground, burial grounds etc. Cost- this is how much it would cost to buy, it will be cheaper to buy in settlements that are located in the environment the herb grows in perhaps meaning that it is 10% cheaper.
Prime32 01-13-08, 11:28 AM	There was an excellent issue of Dragon that dealt with astrological powers, as well as drawing strength from the sun and moon. You could get different abilities based on your starsign, the phase of the moon when you were born, and the time of day. It included magic items that only functioned for some starsigns and exemplified their traits, solar monk and lunar rogue variants, and a "master astrologer" PrC whose magic became more powerful if he knew an enemy's starsign, and at high levels, could actually change the arrangements of the stars to supercharge a spell.
Giradius 01-16-08, 02:05 PM	Cool. I dont suppose you know which Dragon issue it was do you?, I started this thread with the idea in mind of it fitting Conanesq settings as well as mythological settings,however depending on how big a role magic plays in your campaign it could be used anywhere, it could even be adapted for occult based horror and d20 modern (I see it working well in a Dresden Files type game). At the moment I am looking into a skill based magic system and I am hoping the stuff in this forum will work quite nicely with it. Thanks for your reply, i dont seem to get many :D...