England of the Crusades [Archive] - Wizards Community

England of the Crusades [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Charke
08-11-07, 01:24 AM I've been running a demi-historical campaign setting. I say "demi" because I use history but myth, all myth, is real in the setting. I've found a few useful books over the years. The game is set in England starting in 1100 but we've jumped ahead to 1500.

The 2nd Edition Crusades handbook was helpful. Can anyone point out some other historical English and Britain RPG sources?

Mark Charke
The Colonel
08-18-07, 07:22 PM Not to exactly answer your question, but Expeditious Retreat do a pretty useful supplement specifically to do with integrating historical realism and the D20 system ... which is not east. The supplement is called something like:

A Magical Medieval Society: Western Europe
Ranger REG
08-20-07, 02:49 AM Green Ronin got Medieval Handbook (or similar title).
i_am_some_guy
08-20-07, 12:37 PM ...The game is set in England starting in 1100 but we've jumped ahead to 1500.

So your game has traversed 400 years?
Charke
08-22-07, 11:53 PM OTC is about 14 years old. I started in 1100 and ran games with two different groups until about 1250. We would jump a few years here and there and certain things took a lot of time - traveling across the world or performing research or just sitting back and the winter off. So the years went by. Sometimes simple nothing happened for a few years.

I wanted to jump to 1500 because you've got guns, musketeers and Vlad.

Mark Charke
i_am_some_guy
08-23-07, 01:03 PM OTC is about 14 years old. I started in 1100 and ran games with two different groups until about 1250. We would jump a few years here and there and certain things took a lot of time - traveling across the world or performing research or just sitting back and the winter off. So the years went by. Sometimes simple nothing happened for a few years.

I wanted to jump to 1500 because you've got guns, musketeers and Vlad.

Mark Charke

Your characters lived that long, or you cycled through characters?
waiwode
08-23-07, 03:05 PM Just a point. The last Crusade ended in 1291.

England in 1500:
The War of the Roses, the thirty year conflict between York and Lancaster has been over for 15 years. Henry VII is King, and founds the Tudor dynasty.

Henry faced dissent at home, his rule is characterized by rebuilding diplomatic ties, peace, law and order, and increased economic prosperity. However it was far from a golden age.

Young Arthur is the Prince of Wales, betrothed to the Spanish Infanta Catherine. He would be wedded, but would die a year later of "sweating sickness." Catherine would in turn wed Arthur's younger brother, Henry VIII. Arthur's sister Margaret was wed to King James IV of Scotland. His descendant, James V/I, would unite the Scottish and English thrones.

Abroad, the New World has been discovered by Columbus, searching for Cathay, and Vasco de Gama has returned to Portugal from India. it is the dawn of the Age of Exploration, the dawn of the Reformation, and the Italian and Northern Renaissances have already ocurred.

Of all the critical developments of the 1400's, one that would have an incredible influence on the developments to follow, specifically the Reformation, was the Printing Press. Gutenberg's Press is created in 1440, and by 1500 has spread across Europe.

Perhaps the best source for Europe only a little ahead of your chosen era, is the excellent AD&D2 HR4 "A Mighty Fortress," still available from a variety of used-book sellers.
Dan_Bell
08-31-07, 07:28 PM Hi Mark,
Can anyone point out some other historical English and Britain RPG sources?

I think you may like this:
http://www.columbiagames.com/cgi-bin/query/cfg/zoom.cfg?product_id=7001

Also, you may like the free Harn downloads at:
http://www.lythia.com/
Many of these can be dropped in a sudo-british world. (Columbia games -see above link- also sells some lovely Harn castles, cites, etc. that you might be able to tweak.)

Good luck!
Dan
Dan_Bell
09-02-07, 06:03 PM Oops! Forgot one more site that you might like:
http://www.aedificium.org/
Charke
09-03-07, 01:03 PM Thanks tremendously for all the links.

Yes the crusades ended before the 1500's game. I named the game long before researching the crusades and it has sort of stuck. The game has become about the Players crusading for (usually) more moral causes than the original crusades. The point of the Campaign was for Players to establish themselves as heroes and create their own legends. To that end, while they have encountered many figures of history and myth, they have had their own villians to fight. They encountered Robin Hood, in passing, but realized he should be the star of the show in Nottingham and left him well enough alone after a couple of games in Sherwood.

In the 1500's campaign everyone started new characters but, yes, some of the old characters were still alive - we've included the classical fantasy races so the elves were still around. Most were high level, retired and in positions of power.

Mark Charke
i_am_some_guy
09-04-07, 12:03 PM Yeah, Harn makes some awesome stuff. I've used their maps for my own games for quite a long time.
Ral of Tyr
09-20-07, 05:10 PM Video game map editors are great for creating maps.

This is a small village, 1100s. There were a few that decided not to live in the Norman controlled English society and they chose to live in the many swamps, forests and hills that the Norman nobles won't go. Life is tough and brutal here. Away from the other villages, they have no real guarantee they will have enough food to eat.

http://img28.picoodle.com/img/img28/9/9/20/t_MediEng1m_5d74649.jpg (http://www.picoodle.com/view.php?img=/9/9/20/f_MediEng1m_5d74649.jpg&srv=img28)
i_am_some_guy
09-20-07, 05:12 PM I totally agree -- game editors are awesome.

Years ago I used civilazation to make a world map for me.

What would the adventure for your little setting be? ist that were your players would start?
yellowdingo
09-24-07, 11:09 PM Thanks tremendously for all the links.

Yes the crusades ended before the 1500's game. I named the game long before researching the crusades and it has sort of stuck. The game has become about the Players crusading for (usually) more moral causes than the original crusades. The point of the Campaign was for Players to establish themselves as heroes and create their own legends. To that end, while they have encountered many figures of history and myth, they have had their own villians to fight. They encountered Robin Hood, in passing, but realized he should be the star of the show in Nottingham and left him well enough alone after a couple of games in Sherwood.

In the 1500's campaign everyone started new characters but, yes, some of the old characters were still alive - we've included the classical fantasy races so the elves were still around. Most were high level, retired and in positions of power.

Mark Charke

The Norman Problem begins well back in 950AD. They were like Germany -looking for breathing room. They invaded north into Europe from their positions in Northern France. Their incursions created a perpetual battlefield on the frontiers. Baronies were established along a frontier seperating the Christian World from the Pagan.
The incursions into England in 1066 are how would you call it? A resurgence of expansionist Mercenary Activity. They were not really an army loyal to a certain king...they were Mercenaries heeding a call for Adventurers looking to conquer a new region.

Try this:

YOU KEEP WHAT YOU KILL

"Damn Fog! I knew we should have kept the others in sight." Curzon Astrich gripped the sword at his belt.
"Row You Wretches! Row!" They put their backs into it.

The collision was sudden. Curzon fell from the Boat onto the gravely beach.
"By the Gods...I'll have the lot of you for that."

Past the Beach, the fog had lifted. Curzon spotted the Stone Monastary on the top of the hill.
"Swords! I want my castle secured by Dinner!" His Soldiers struggled over the edge of the boat and dragged the vessel up the beach.
"You know, there is a Key over there..." Garvin the Sworder pointed at the Stone Docks they could have tied off at.

DM BRIEFING: The PCs get seperated from the rest of the invading Norman Army. They row ashore near an obscure Monastary on a nice island. If they kill the twenty Monks (Cloistered Clerics) in residence, they will secure a nice stone Keep, a thirty acre Vinyard, and fifty serfs.
There is a secret Vault of Gold and Jewel encrusted Relics beneath the Monastary Including the missing Reliquary of St Utrech (Grants Leadership bonus of +50% To tests of Rulership - recharged by sacrificing 50,000gp to the reliquary).
The Colonel
09-29-07, 04:07 PM The Norman Problem begins well back in 950AD. They were like Germany -looking for breathing room. They invaded north into Europe from their positions in Northern France. Their incursions created a perpetual battlefield on the frontiers. Baronies were established along a frontier seperating the Christian World from the Pagan.
The incursions into England in 1066 are how would you call it? A resurgence of expansionist Mercenary Activity. They were not really an army loyal to a certain king...they were Mercenaries heeding a call for Adventurers looking to conquer a new region.

<snip>

DM BRIEFING: The PCs get seperated from the rest of the invading Norman Army. They row ashore near an obscure Monastary on a nice island. If they kill the twenty Monks (Cloistered Clerics) in residence, they will secure a nice stone Keep, a thirty acre Vinyard, and fifty serfs.
There is a secret Vault of Gold and Jewel encrusted Relics beneath the Monastary Including the missing Reliquary of St Utrech (Grants Leadership bonus of +50% To tests of Rulership - recharged by sacrificing 50,000gp to the reliquary).

Not entirely convinced that this is realistic behaviour for Normans - for their Norse ancestors possibly, who were quite prone to raiding monastries when viking, but King William went to England with the sanction of the Pope and anyone who was involved in destroying church property would, at the very least, have lost the chance to claim it as a land grant.
The sort of activity you're implying would be likely to put your players very much on the wrong side of the King ... which was not a good place to be as he had freely demonstrated before this point.

As a side note, the Normans, far from heading north from France, were a southern outpost of the Scandinavian lands (which at this time included England) and later spread out to a variety of locations including southern Italy, Sicily and other regions around the Med.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Charke 08-11-07, 01:24 AM	I've been running a demi-historical campaign setting. I say "demi" because I use history but myth, all myth, is real in the setting. I've found a few useful books over the years. The game is set in England starting in 1100 but we've jumped ahead to 1500. The 2nd Edition Crusades handbook was helpful. Can anyone point out some other historical English and Britain RPG sources? Mark Charke
The Colonel 08-18-07, 07:22 PM	Not to exactly answer your question, but Expeditious Retreat do a pretty useful supplement specifically to do with integrating historical realism and the D20 system ... which is not east. The supplement is called something like: A Magical Medieval Society: Western Europe
Ranger REG 08-20-07, 02:49 AM	Green Ronin got Medieval Handbook (or similar title).
i_am_some_guy 08-20-07, 12:37 PM	...The game is set in England starting in 1100 but we've jumped ahead to 1500. So your game has traversed 400 years?
Charke 08-22-07, 11:53 PM	OTC is about 14 years old. I started in 1100 and ran games with two different groups until about 1250. We would jump a few years here and there and certain things took a lot of time - traveling across the world or performing research or just sitting back and the winter off. So the years went by. Sometimes simple nothing happened for a few years. I wanted to jump to 1500 because you've got guns, musketeers and Vlad. Mark Charke
i_am_some_guy 08-23-07, 01:03 PM	OTC is about 14 years old. I started in 1100 and ran games with two different groups until about 1250. We would jump a few years here and there and certain things took a lot of time - traveling across the world or performing research or just sitting back and the winter off. So the years went by. Sometimes simple nothing happened for a few years. I wanted to jump to 1500 because you've got guns, musketeers and Vlad. Mark Charke Your characters lived that long, or you cycled through characters?
waiwode 08-23-07, 03:05 PM	Just a point. The last Crusade ended in 1291. England in 1500: The War of the Roses, the thirty year conflict between York and Lancaster has been over for 15 years. Henry VII is King, and founds the Tudor dynasty. Henry faced dissent at home, his rule is characterized by rebuilding diplomatic ties, peace, law and order, and increased economic prosperity. However it was far from a golden age. Young Arthur is the Prince of Wales, betrothed to the Spanish Infanta Catherine. He would be wedded, but would die a year later of "sweating sickness." Catherine would in turn wed Arthur's younger brother, Henry VIII. Arthur's sister Margaret was wed to King James IV of Scotland. His descendant, James V/I, would unite the Scottish and English thrones. Abroad, the New World has been discovered by Columbus, searching for Cathay, and Vasco de Gama has returned to Portugal from India. it is the dawn of the Age of Exploration, the dawn of the Reformation, and the Italian and Northern Renaissances have already ocurred. Of all the critical developments of the 1400's, one that would have an incredible influence on the developments to follow, specifically the Reformation, was the Printing Press. Gutenberg's Press is created in 1440, and by 1500 has spread across Europe. Perhaps the best source for Europe only a little ahead of your chosen era, is the excellent AD&D2 HR4 "A Mighty Fortress," still available from a variety of used-book sellers.
Dan_Bell 08-31-07, 07:28 PM	Hi Mark, Can anyone point out some other historical English and Britain RPG sources? I think you may like this: http://www.columbiagames.com/cgi-bin/query/cfg/zoom.cfg?product_id=7001 Also, you may like the free Harn downloads at: http://www.lythia.com/ Many of these can be dropped in a sudo-british world. (Columbia games -see above link- also sells some lovely Harn castles, cites, etc. that you might be able to tweak.) Good luck! Dan
Dan_Bell 09-02-07, 06:03 PM	Oops! Forgot one more site that you might like: http://www.aedificium.org/
Charke 09-03-07, 01:03 PM	Thanks tremendously for all the links. Yes the crusades ended before the 1500's game. I named the game long before researching the crusades and it has sort of stuck. The game has become about the Players crusading for (usually) more moral causes than the original crusades. The point of the Campaign was for Players to establish themselves as heroes and create their own legends. To that end, while they have encountered many figures of history and myth, they have had their own villians to fight. They encountered Robin Hood, in passing, but realized he should be the star of the show in Nottingham and left him well enough alone after a couple of games in Sherwood. In the 1500's campaign everyone started new characters but, yes, some of the old characters were still alive - we've included the classical fantasy races so the elves were still around. Most were high level, retired and in positions of power. Mark Charke
i_am_some_guy 09-04-07, 12:03 PM	Yeah, Harn makes some awesome stuff. I've used their maps for my own games for quite a long time.
Ral of Tyr 09-20-07, 05:10 PM	Video game map editors are great for creating maps. This is a small village, 1100s. There were a few that decided not to live in the Norman controlled English society and they chose to live in the many swamps, forests and hills that the Norman nobles won't go. Life is tough and brutal here. Away from the other villages, they have no real guarantee they will have enough food to eat. http://img28.picoodle.com/img/img28/9/9/20/t_MediEng1m_5d74649.jpg (http://www.picoodle.com/view.php?img=/9/9/20/f_MediEng1m_5d74649.jpg&srv=img28)
i_am_some_guy 09-20-07, 05:12 PM	I totally agree -- game editors are awesome. Years ago I used civilazation to make a world map for me. What would the adventure for your little setting be? ist that were your players would start?
yellowdingo 09-24-07, 11:09 PM	Thanks tremendously for all the links. Yes the crusades ended before the 1500's game. I named the game long before researching the crusades and it has sort of stuck. The game has become about the Players crusading for (usually) more moral causes than the original crusades. The point of the Campaign was for Players to establish themselves as heroes and create their own legends. To that end, while they have encountered many figures of history and myth, they have had their own villians to fight. They encountered Robin Hood, in passing, but realized he should be the star of the show in Nottingham and left him well enough alone after a couple of games in Sherwood. In the 1500's campaign everyone started new characters but, yes, some of the old characters were still alive - we've included the classical fantasy races so the elves were still around. Most were high level, retired and in positions of power. Mark Charke The Norman Problem begins well back in 950AD. They were like Germany -looking for breathing room. They invaded north into Europe from their positions in Northern France. Their incursions created a perpetual battlefield on the frontiers. Baronies were established along a frontier seperating the Christian World from the Pagan. The incursions into England in 1066 are how would you call it? A resurgence of expansionist Mercenary Activity. They were not really an army loyal to a certain king...they were Mercenaries heeding a call for Adventurers looking to conquer a new region. Try this: YOU KEEP WHAT YOU KILL "Damn Fog! I knew we should have kept the others in sight." Curzon Astrich gripped the sword at his belt. "Row You Wretches! Row!" They put their backs into it. The collision was sudden. Curzon fell from the Boat onto the gravely beach. "By the Gods...I'll have the lot of you for that." Past the Beach, the fog had lifted. Curzon spotted the Stone Monastary on the top of the hill. "Swords! I want my castle secured by Dinner!" His Soldiers struggled over the edge of the boat and dragged the vessel up the beach. "You know, there is a Key over there..." Garvin the Sworder pointed at the Stone Docks they could have tied off at. DM BRIEFING: The PCs get seperated from the rest of the invading Norman Army. They row ashore near an obscure Monastary on a nice island. If they kill the twenty Monks (Cloistered Clerics) in residence, they will secure a nice stone Keep, a thirty acre Vinyard, and fifty serfs. There is a secret Vault of Gold and Jewel encrusted Relics beneath the Monastary Including the missing Reliquary of St Utrech (Grants Leadership bonus of +50% To tests of Rulership - recharged by sacrificing 50,000gp to the reliquary).
The Colonel 09-29-07, 04:07 PM	The Norman Problem begins well back in 950AD. They were like Germany -looking for breathing room. They invaded north into Europe from their positions in Northern France. Their incursions created a perpetual battlefield on the frontiers. Baronies were established along a frontier seperating the Christian World from the Pagan. The incursions into England in 1066 are how would you call it? A resurgence of expansionist Mercenary Activity. They were not really an army loyal to a certain king...they were Mercenaries heeding a call for Adventurers looking to conquer a new region. <snip> DM BRIEFING: The PCs get seperated from the rest of the invading Norman Army. They row ashore near an obscure Monastary on a nice island. If they kill the twenty Monks (Cloistered Clerics) in residence, they will secure a nice stone Keep, a thirty acre Vinyard, and fifty serfs. There is a secret Vault of Gold and Jewel encrusted Relics beneath the Monastary Including the missing Reliquary of St Utrech (Grants Leadership bonus of +50% To tests of Rulership - recharged by sacrificing 50,000gp to the reliquary). Not entirely convinced that this is realistic behaviour for Normans - for their Norse ancestors possibly, who were quite prone to raiding monastries when viking, but King William went to England with the sanction of the Pope and anyone who was involved in destroying church property would, at the very least, have lost the chance to claim it as a land grant. The sort of activity you're implying would be likely to put your players very much on the wrong side of the King ... which was not a good place to be as he had freely demonstrated before this point. As a side note, the Normans, far from heading north from France, were a southern outpost of the Scandinavian lands (which at this time included England) and later spread out to a variety of locations including southern Italy, Sicily and other regions around the Med.