Post/Author/DateTime	Post
NovaX81 07-02-07, 08:23 PM	I searched a bit, but couldn't find anything really related (unless I'm blind or something, which is entirely possible). Is it possible to really optimize the time it takes to create an item (mundane or magical)? I'm posting here instead of the Char Op forums because I'm talking about extreme optimization -- such as creating a weapon on the fly in a matter of minutes, or even a few rounds. Just a cool concept for a BBEG I was toying with, and wondered if it was even possible within the constructs of the game rules. Any help is much appreciated! I'm pretty new at... well, really optimizing anything xD;
JaronK 07-02-07, 10:50 PM	There's an Eberron feat that reduces time by 25%, and another feat that reduces time, cost, and exp by 25% but only for one item creation feat. The Unbound Scroll class also gives reductions, and the Maestro class reduces all craft times by 50%. JaronK
Tempest Stormwind 07-03-07, 11:23 AM	Mundanes can be made very easily -- just get a ludicrous craft check or the Fabricate spell. Magic items, not so much. They always take at least a day to make (IIRC).
Fwib 07-03-07, 03:53 PM	Wish spell.
NoldorForce 07-03-07, 05:10 PM	Wish spell.Unless you have quite a bit of XP, this is more trouble than it's worth. It costs double the item's XP in addition to 5K XP - not fun. There are a few methods out there of using it as a SLA, though. One of them is the Candles of Invocation loop. (Gate in Efreeti, ask for another Candle on third Wish, repeat as desired.) It's silly-broken, however. Actually, they're all regarded in roughly this manner.
Callix 07-05-07, 04:49 AM	Hmmm... 25% reduction to time for all... 25% reduction to all costs of wondrous items... 50% reduction to time from Maestro... And the way multipliers stack... 25% reduction = 0.75 multiplier 50% reduction = 0.5 multiplier Stacking formula = sum of (multiplier -1) +1 Thus (-.25 -.25 -.50) + 1 = 0 Instant wondrous items!
NoldorForce 07-05-07, 04:49 PM	WotC has consistently stated that magic item creation modifiers are multiplicative rather than additive.
Lokiyn 07-06-07, 11:29 PM	hmm, i think Sculpt spell + Pseudonatural template + Planar Bubble should do the trick You need a dedicated wright though. Basically you need to sculpt the spell so that the area does not include the target creature. if the dedicated wright is in the area of the spell and the creature isn't then the Wright will have all the time in the world to craft the item. So i believe you could even do this with a summoned creature. So i think that would reduce time to, one hour to prime the wright, one round to summon, then one standard action to cast planar bubble, and your move action would be to accept the item from the wright as it blurs into action then steps out of the field.
NoldorForce 07-06-07, 11:48 PM	Explain? I understand that Far Realms time (the reason for the Pseudonatural template) is involved somehow, but I don't recall enough of that to grasp the real workings here.
Lokiyn 07-07-07, 12:03 AM	This is all off the top of my head without book reference, but here goes. Dedicated Wrights craft the item for you, they don't eat or sleep or even age. So you summon a psudonatural monster, or anything that is a far realm native. If i remember right Planar bubble is an area spell you can shape, centered on the target creature. You shape the area so that the target creature is not in the planar bubble are, but the dedicated wright is. The Far Realms time trait is, infinite to nil, in other words for every round real time, infinite time passes on the far realm. Thus the Dedicated Wright experiences an infinite amount of time in the round that goes on as you watch. At some point the Dedicated wright leaves the area affected with the bubble with the crafted item. From your point of view the dedicated wright finish polished and learned to juggle in less than 6 seconds. From the Wrights view, it just spend 200 days making a mirror of opposition. Then you unsummon the creature. In fact if i remember correctly, the Kaorti are natives to the far realm and can be summoned,
Kevin Andrew Murphy 07-11-07, 02:39 PM	WotC has consistently stated that magic item creation modifiers are multiplicative rather than additive. Where? And it's hardly consistent in any case. Check out the Unbound Scroll PrC in Dragonmarked. The Unbound Scroll's scroll creation times stack and also stack with the feats. Moreover, this stacks with the 9th college sanctum discount (identical to the Sharn Wizards Circles) of 10% for both. Yes, it says "stacks." I don't see any reason not to stack that with the Maester, especially since if it doesn't, the Maester is basically useless.
Callix 07-11-07, 06:13 PM	"Stacks" isn't the issue. We all agree that discounts stack. The issue is: Do two 50% reductions reduce the cost to zero (additive) or 25% (multiplicative). Now, in D&D maths, x2x2=x3, so it produces my earlier formula. But some people have said that multipliers less than one are multiplicative, rather than additive. So there's the debate as to whether all the discounts (25%, 25%, 50%, 10%) give a 110% (yay! Free gold and XP! and time? :confused: ), a 100% (free, instant items), or a 74.7% (aww...) discount.
Djief 07-11-07, 06:33 PM	So there's the debate as to whether all the discounts (25%, 25%, 50%, 10%) give a 110% (yay! Free gold and XP! and time? :confused: ) Well, you want to do an item but you actually realize you did it 1 hour ago without even thinking about it, you sold 1 of the 2 items you made so you have more money and crafting the item opened your eyes to new ways of crafting more items so you gain a level. isn't that wonderfull? ;)
Kevin Andrew Murphy 07-12-07, 12:04 AM	"Stacks" isn't the issue. We all agree that discounts stack. The issue is: Do two 50% reductions reduce the cost to zero (additive) or 25% (multiplicative). Now, in D&D maths, x2x2=x3, so it produces my earlier formula. But some people have said that multipliers less than one are multiplicative, rather than additive. So there's the debate as to whether all the discounts (25%, 25%, 50%, 10%) give a 110% (yay! Free gold and XP! and time? :confused: ), a 100% (free, instant items), or a 74.7% (aww...) discount. If you check the Unbound Scroll PrC in Dragonmarked, under the "Master Scribe" ability, it not only says the word "stacks" but also does the math explicitly. Each level of Unbound Scroll (a 5-level PrC) reduce XP and GP costs by 5% each. And I quote "so a 5th level unbound scroll with the Legendary Artisan feat reduces the XP cost of scroll creation by 50%" Unbound Scroll doesn't reduce time, however, so a Wizard 5/Maester 1/Unbound Scroll 5 with Extraordinary Artisan, Exceptional Artisan and Legendary Artisan would create scrolls in 50% of the usual cost, both gold and XP, and 25% of the time. And he could reduce the gold and XP to 40% by means of the Ninth College. And if he took Magical Artisan from Faerun specifically for the creation of scrolls, he could get another 25% discount for all three, making it so that he could instantly scribe scrolls for 15% of the XP and GP cost. And having the Apprentice feat from the DMG II can reduce the GP costs by 10%. The only question is whether to use Eberron feats with Faerun feats and so on. There's even one feat in Oriental Adventures that will give you a straight 75% off all item creation but has the drawback that all of your items will be cursed, and once you take the feat, you use it with everything you craft. As DM, I'd say that stacking feats doesn't give you a rebate and you can't get less than 0.
Callix 07-12-07, 05:16 PM	If you check the Unbound Scroll PrC in Dragonmarked, under the "Master Scribe" ability, it not only says the word "stacks" but also does the math explicitly. Each level of Unbound Scroll (a 5-level PrC) reduce XP and GP costs by 5% each. And I quote "so a 5th level unbound scroll with the Legendary Artisan feat reduces the XP cost of scroll creation by 50%" Unbound Scroll doesn't reduce time, however, so a Wizard 5/Maester 1/Unbound Scroll 5 with Extraordinary Artisan, Exceptional Artisan and Legendary Artisan would create scrolls in 50% of the usual cost, both gold and XP, and 25% of the time. And he could reduce the gold and XP to 40% by means of the Ninth College. And if he took Magical Artisan from Faerun specifically for the creation of scrolls, he could get another 25% discount for all three, making it so that he could instantly scribe scrolls for 15% of the XP and GP cost. And having the Apprentice feat from the DMG II can reduce the GP costs by 10%. The only question is whether to use Eberron feats with Faerun feats and so on. There's even one feat in Oriental Adventures that will give you a straight 75% off all item creation but has the drawback that all of your items will be cursed, and once you take the feat, you use it with everything you craft. As DM, I'd say that stacking feats doesn't give you a rebate and you can't get less than 0. But this is TO. It doesn't matter what a DM says. If it's RAW legal, it works. And now we have to ask... What would an Artificer do if he only needs to pay 2.5% of the market price and a tiny chunk of his craft reserve, and it worked instantly. Then... He could drain it! He'd get more than the tiny amount of XP the item cost him, and that can refill his reserve.
Kevin Andrew Murphy 07-12-07, 06:06 PM	But this is TO. It doesn't matter what a DM says. If it's RAW legal, it works. And now we have to ask... What would an Artificer do if he only needs to pay 2.5% of the market price and a tiny chunk of his craft reserve, and it worked instantly. Then... He could drain it! He'd get more than the tiny amount of XP the item cost him, and that can refill his reserve. Actually, by the RAW that doesn't work, because if you check the text on "Retain Essence," an artificer "adds the XP it took to create the item to his craft reserve." If it takes less XP to craft an item, then there's correspondingly less XP to take out of it. Of course, you might make a ruling where an artificer with multiple bargain shopper feats to pull out the extra XP from an item created without them while still leaving enough in it to have it running at the bargain shopper price. Basically retuning it to run more efficiently.
hogarth 07-13-07, 09:18 AM	The craft points variant from Unearthed Arcana allows you to create an item overnight. Crafting within a few rounds is a bit trickier, though.
Kevin Andrew Murphy 07-13-07, 12:56 PM	The craft points variant from Unearthed Arcana allows you to create an item overnight. Crafting within a few rounds is a bit trickier, though. Not that tricky: Maester (CAdv, 50% off), Exceptional Artisan (Eberron, 25% off), Magical Artisan (Faerun, tied to specific item creation feat, 25% off) + Fabricate or True Creation (from Eberron) = instant item. Of course, you still have your GP and XP costs, but if you've got an artificer, the XP isn't a problem with "retain essence" and other items to trash and the GP can be dealt with similarly. You can have a character ready to instantly make items at 9th level with artificer 5/dragonmarked heir 4 with the Mark of Making (for instant Fabricate), or Wizard 9 for fabricate or artificer 9 to fake it or even pull it off with artificer 4/dragonmarked heir 4 at level 8 if you don't mind paying XP for items (or have lots saved in your craft reserve).