Post/Author/DateTime	Post
awaken_D_M_golem 05-03-07, 05:29 PM	step 1 : feat Evil Brand - requires you to be evil step 2 : feat Thrall to Demon - requires you to be chaotic evil step 3 : feat Abyss-Bound Soul - requires the above two feats Who's your "daddy"? Demogorgon What do you get ??!! Summons a 1/2-your-level-in-CR demon that sticks around for an hour. Not bad for Fighters and Commoners, you say. OK. This ability is the equivalent of a spell cast at a * level equal to your character level. Clearly - at * the word "caster" was intended. This being the TO board, let's not bother ourselves with such things. mmm ... kaayy ... a 10th level spell at level 10, an 11th level spell at level 11, etc. The spell is not listed as either Arcane or Divine. Any way to convert this into a class ability of some sort? minor - Extend (su) feat is available at level 4. Empower (su) feat is available at level 6. Ideas?
Taeldrin Laesrash 05-03-07, 06:40 PM	Remember the Commandments of Practical Optimization? Intent matters. Clearly, they meant caster level. So there's the X Supernatural Ability feats, but not much else.
Tempest Stormwind 05-03-07, 06:53 PM	Okay, wise guy, if the spell level is actually your character level, what's the caster level this effect happens at? Seriously. It's caster level. This isn't good optimization. This is bad editing.
awaken_D_M_golem 05-03-07, 07:43 PM	Me : Clearly - at * the word "caster" was intended. Ext / emp T L : Clearly, they meant caster level. Ext / emp T S : Seriously. It's caster level. Everything good. But wait just a second. Lesser Planar Ally is a 4th level spell .......... This a supernatural feat. LPA takes 10 minutes to cast ... This presumeably 1 standard action. LPA takes at least 1 round to bargain ................... This is automatic. LPA lets task/time be iffy ..................... This is automatically 1 hour. LPA costs gold and exp ........................................ .... This is "free". LPA doesn't scale/augment ........................................ ... This does. Using Epic spells as a guideline : spell ---> spell-like ---> supernaturalize = un-gawdly expensive 10 minutes ---> 1 minute ---> 1 round = what 20 'levels' more expensive etc. The greater planar ally spell would cap at what this does at level 18, but with the 500xp cost eliminated, would be an epic spell. Just on eliminating exp cost alone. So maybe spell level is strangely accurate. And what's the spell level of this effect going to be, if it really was supposed to be caster level ?
Tempest Stormwind 05-03-07, 07:56 PM	All you've done is shown one way this could be terribly unbalanced (without reading the ability, I can't be certain of it myself, and I'm certainly not going to buy a friggin' book on the standard D&D cosmology!). You haven't lended any cadence to your claim that it reflects spell level instead of caster level.
awaken_D_M_golem 05-03-07, 08:30 PM	I bought FC1 because of the really smokin' hot Type V demoness on the cover. And, yeah, you can feel what you feel about the cosmology stuff ... Demogorgon is always a little better in insane ways. It's his/its (could be a she ... or two) nature. The CR of the demon summoned is 1/2 your level. There's no cap on the HD of the demon. That's all that's needed to 'get' the text. But I'm not claiming either spell level or caster level. I've no idea at all as to what the proper caster level for this would be. The HD cap of Gate isn't seriously challenged. Gate requires negotiations, this doesn't. Gate requires 1000 xp, this doesn't. Gate lasts CasterLevel # of rounds, this could be considered extended + extended. Using epic spells and metamagic as a comparo, this might be a 9th level spell w/ at least 7 levels of metamagic. And that doesn't cover all of its effects. Whether Caster, the * word, was an editing mistake or not, the real power level of this feat is either : Epic Spell without the prereqs ..... or ..... a really good 9th level spell heightened to Xth level. I mean, hey, this is soo broken good, I feel all ChaoticEvilly TO-boardish inside. Still not at Candle of Invocation abuse level.
Senevri 05-03-07, 08:59 PM	Hmm. If it is caster level, there are ways to pump that... How early can you get that CL 40? Balor pet at level 12 or so might be a tad unbalanced *edit* No, it doesn't - it explicitly refers to "Character Level" - which is pretty much the same as HD? or do they mean ECL? Well, Succubus at l 14 isn't bad. Nor is it good, though. Vrock at 16... Hm. All in all, it's a bit better than Summon Monster 'til 14. It does have the added benefit of having an inclusive, expanding list. Lessee... 10: Bar-Lgura for Greater Teleport, maybe dispel spamming. Nabassu is kinda nice, actually... 14: Succubus, Armanite 16: Vrock 18: Bulezau 20: Chasme, Bebilith
Tleilaxu_Ghola 05-10-07, 03:51 AM	No it's not bad editing. They always use that language when referring to CL. They use the language "spell level" when referring to spell level. Only thing I can see this being used for is ... well nothing theoretical. You couldn't even absorb the spell levels. At best it could be used to power an ETF... but you'd need to be high level to get access to that anyhow, so that gets us no where. Even if you had low-level access to ETF, there are a far more feat-efficient ways to feed it. Basically this a zero potential trick. On the plus side, I would like to congratulate you on your move towards normal capitalization and punctuation. I can actually read your posts without squinting and re-reading three times.
awaken_D_M_golem 05-12-07, 03:42 PM	Yeah. I thought caster level meant caster level. But, you know, I've just PAO'd my avatar and ... the Prairie Home Companion told me everything tastes better with ketchup, including kittens. Hmm - my avatar isn't showing here today. Zemyla asked an interesting question here ---> linky Given the Gold, Time, and Exp to make an Item that is: Magical "Something" + Chameleon Crafting feat = Psionic Powerstone of some Demonic Supernatural ability then "Psionic" Divine scroll of some Demonic Supernatural ability Archivist then scribes it into his prayer book ---> now its a spell that is castable. Caster level will be known, but Spell level won't be. Ouch. That is only a maybe. I don't know how to make it work. Who knows what it would cost or time or exp ??!!