Post/Author/DateTime	Post
n00b_Minion 11-07-07, 01:11 AM	I had a simple idea. While I was reading the campaign smashers thread I saw the combo from Dark Kyosuke about the Festering Anger Disease + Cancer Mage = Infinite STR. Then it came into my mind: Infinite STR + Might Makes Right + Epic Leadership = Infinite Followers I’m not sure if you can make them worship you and eventually ascend into a god that way but anyway eventually you'll get the whole world to obey you which is kinda cool :cool: So I made a simple build that is more flavor than real optimization but really fun. 1 Barbarian/1-2 Ranger/1-3 Half-Orc Paragon/1-3 Orc Paragon/1-5 Orc Warlord/2-6 Barbarian Epic Barbarian --- the Feats are as follows: (2 flaws) Level 1: Great Fortitude Flaw 1: Poison Immunity Flaw 2: Toughness (now you can become Cancer Mage) Level 3: ? Level 6: Leadership Level 9: Might Makes Right Level 12: Extra Followers (this + Orc Warlord = +200% followers) Level 15: Landlord (yay!! a castle) Level 18: ? Level 21 (epic): Epic Leadership (Needs: Cha 25 (18 base +4 levels +5 tome of leadership and influence -2 Racial =25)) Now you can conquer the world. See? Fun. What do you guys think? Ok ok, after a long day of posts and replays I think I made the best out of this idea. Here's a link to the completed thread on Character Optimization http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=949567
Callix 11-07-07, 02:16 AM	Kinda fun, in that you get an army of followers because you're so angry. OTOH, it needs an Epic feat, and a Cheesewrought Kobold still needs Charisma 25 to get in. If you haven't heard of the Cheesewrought Kobold, it's a Venerable Dragonwrought (Races of the Dragon) kobold. Dragonwrought makes your type "Dragon" and the book gives a kobold the 12 draconic age categories, which, according to CustServ, makes them a true dragon. A true dragon of age category Old or older (draconic) qualifies as an Epic creature, regardless of CR or HD. So your Level 1 Venerable Kobold is Epic, and can take Epic Leadership as soon as he can boost his Charisma to 25, since Festering Anger does the rest. And, of course, you have to be a kobold. But you're such a strong kobold, everyone is in awe of you and your diseased body.
n00b_Minion 11-07-07, 12:09 PM	I have to say NICE for Callix idea. So this should acctually be something like: FORGET TIAMAT, NOW I'M IN CHARGE HERE!!!! (KOBOLD WITH INFINITE FOLLOWERS) a simple build would be: 1 Ranger/1-2 Paladin of Tyranny/1 Cancer Mage/1-3 Sorcerer/1 Spellsword/1-5 Abjurant Champion/2-Epic Sorcerer Right? Feats (with flaws) level 1 - Great fortitude flaw 1 - Poison immunity flaw 2 - Dragonwrought level 3 - Toughness level 6 - Leadership level 9 - Might makes Right level 12 - (As soon as you can get CHA 25 get yourself Epic Leadership) level 15 - (Why are you looking here? I just told you to go for Epic Leadership.) level 18 - (I’m not repeating myself…) So you could be a tiny little Kobold so angry you would rule the world!! by level 12 or something like that (14 with wealth by level). Sounds something like "the Belkster" to me.
CrimsonDeath 11-07-07, 01:49 PM	You can't take Epic class levels until you've completed the class (20 levels of a base class or 10 of a prestiege class).
Callix 11-07-07, 03:01 PM	Yeah, no Epic Sorcerer filler. Still, let's do an analysis of when this guy gets to rule the world Starting Cha: 18(Base)+3(Venerable)=21 4: 22 8: 23 12: 24 16: 25! Add in items, and Cha 25 is 8th with WBL (+2 Cloak of Charisma). Are there any templates out there that boost Cha for a low LA cost? Magic-blooded would be nice, but I don't have the source.
CrimsonDeath 11-07-07, 03:30 PM	Yeah, I mentioned Magic-Blooded in the cross-post to the CO board. I think it's +0 LA. But I was told it didn't matter because we couldn't get both Epic Leadership and Might Makes Right until level 12.
n00b_Minion 11-07-07, 05:52 PM	Yeah, no Epic Sorcerer filler. Still, let's do an analysis of when this guy gets to rule the world. I think he can start on level 6. this is a link to the other thread on Character optimization http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=949567
OokamiKiba 11-10-07, 05:29 PM	I had a similar idea except it abused the Epic Spell rules...I hope there's been an errata... It went something like: level 30 guy, probably Bard 10/Dread Pirate 10/X 10(maybe if we need something else to get us into Pirate?) He grabs Epic Leadership and Legendary Commander. His follower is an epic spellcaster who prepares the Fortify seed for charisma using a slight loophole in the epic spell rules...you see all of the followers are wizards who contribute spell slots and so the math went along the lines of: X is first level spell slots, Y is second level and so forth DC27 for the base check -((X*1)+(Y*3)+(Z*5)+(A*7)+(20 for time)+(200 for time)+(5 for specialist)) Multiply the final number by 2 because you decide to put it on a stone tablet, add forty eight to make it a quickened action to cast the spell and now devide by four. Round down so that your final DC is still below 0 and add permanent, or not, this number was just added to your CHA...do the math...and remember, castings stack... Now, this all said I really hope someone has errated this or that I read the rules wrong because the next step is to make one for strength and a burst area so that all your minions are now super powered... ________________________________________ _________________________ There's also the wonderful Vamp-cheese...Vampire (Lord or not) creates spawn from two commoners (2HD hopefully our vamp is at least 5HD...or any number above one). Grab one level of Master Vampire and add your CHA to your HD...go to town and vamp a couple more commoners. Go beat the tar out of a fighter and turn him...gain some levels...go beat an even bigger fighter...repeat, and remember that these fighters(or clerics or druids or anything really) can make their own vampires...and you can do this before EL 20 without ever touching Leadership (Unless you have the Lord template)
CrimsonDeath 11-10-07, 09:30 PM	Why can't he take ten levels of Sublime Chord and Fortify his own Charisma?
archerpwr 11-12-07, 09:30 PM	Why can't he take ten levels of Sublime Chord and Fortify his own Charisma? Because he's to lazy.
trent12345409 12-09-07, 03:11 AM	I, as a DM. Would either say there is no ifinate men or "Great, you have everyone anywhere as a follower, so what's left to kill.
The_Mad_Linguist 12-09-07, 03:46 AM	I, as a DM. Would either say there is no ifinate men or "Great, you have everyone anywhere as a follower, so what's left to kill. Planes are infinite in size. "Great. You have everyone on the prime material plane (or at least, the segment of them at least two levels below you) as your follower. Nice try giving them all orders, though. And your ascension has attracted some very powerful outsiders and other extraplanar beings. Enjoy!"
BillTheManiac 12-09-07, 03:51 PM	I, as a DM. Would either say there is no ifinate men or "Great, you have everyone anywhere as a follower, so what's left to kill. I think that's the point.
n00b_Minion 12-11-07, 01:47 PM	I, as a DM. Would either say there is no ifinate men or "Great, you have everyone anywhere as a follower, so what's left to kill. Actually that's exactly what happend when I tried to pull it out. "End of Story" he said "lets start over"
Arcane-surge 12-12-07, 11:49 AM	About the dragonwrought kobold build... Correct me if I'm wrong, but the spot in Draconomicon that mentions dragons taking epic feats says that if you're looking for more, you should open up your Epic Level Handbook. In fact, Epic Leadership is from the ELH, if I recall (AFB). Couldn't you take Great Charisma (Or whatever the epic feat is that increases your charisma by one point) to get a 25 Cha even earlier?
The_Mad_Linguist 12-12-07, 07:26 PM	About the dragonwrought kobold build... Correct me if I'm wrong, but the spot in Draconomicon that mentions dragons taking epic feats says that if you're looking for more, you should open up your Epic Level Handbook. In fact, Epic Leadership is from the ELH, if I recall (AFB). Couldn't you take Great Charisma (Or whatever the epic feat is that increases your charisma by one point) to get a 25 Cha even earlier? Kobold paragon might work too. (+2 to charisma at third level). You only get 2/3s sorc casting, but the greater dragon rite can overcome that. Oh, and use the abyssal heritor feats in order to swap out your racial bonus feats for martial weapon profs in heavy pick and light pick for something decent.
Rage King 12-26-07, 08:51 AM	Ok, what's with tthis festering anger disease BS? You DM allowed that? What the? First of all, to gain the "benefits" of the disease you'd have to be afflicted with it. To me, the disease increases your Strength by draining your Constitution. With a Cancer Mage being immune to the effects and no Constitution lost, hence no muscles formed. I suppose it can be stretched so it reads to bend the rules, but that wording is pretty subjective. Not to mention all anyone would have to do to you is cast Remove Disease. Bye bye Strength. Plus, doesn't Might Make Right only apply to orcs? Even still, you're only going to attrach evil followers. There's no rule stating you'd become a god, and in the few miliseconds you had an infinate strength (which you wouldn't have, as you'd only gain +2 Str a day), somebody would come rock you so bad you'd beg to be chained to the Abyss.
larry_the_titan 12-26-07, 11:47 AM	First of all, to gain the "benefits" of the disease you'd have to be afflicted with it. To me, the disease increases your Strength by draining your Constitution. With a Cancer Mage being immune to the effects and no Constitution lost, hence no muscles formed. I suppose it can be stretched so it reads to bend the rules, but that wording is pretty subjective. Congrats on having to twist the rules so the effects works the way you want it to so you can down the build. The disease increases your strength and lowers your constitution. The effects are seperate and canceling one doesn't keep the other from taking effect. Actually I believe there is a disease some where that increases your Natural armor and decreases you dexterity which would be effected the same way by being a cancer mage.
Rage King 12-26-07, 04:57 PM	Alright, even if you were to allow the wording to allow you to gain strength, one successful remove disease will stop you.
larry_the_titan 12-26-07, 10:28 PM	Alright with Rage King's continued complaining I now declare the build requires 2 levels of Hexblade or another class that will give Charisma to saves. Other wise a failed fort save ends it. And the feat Steadfast Determination would help as well. I mean that if you can get your fort save high enough you no longer have to worry about some one curing you. I am just curious but were is this disease in the first place.
Rage King 12-27-07, 01:25 AM	Alright with Rage King's continued complaining I now declare the build requires 2 levels of Hexblade or another class that will give Charisma to saves. Other wise a failed fort save ends it. And the feat Steadfast Determination would help as well. I mean that if you can get your fort save high enough you no longer have to worry about some one curing you. I am just curious but were is this disease in the first place. It's in the Book of Vile Darkness. And I'm not complaining, I'm just saying that the wording for the Cancer Mage's ability could be taken as misleading. The ability, Disease Host, was probably designed so the class could carry diseases to spread, but not get infected himself. What I'm justing is that the Cancer Mage would have to become infected (not immune) to get both sides of the disease. Mind you, pretty much ANY creature could gain infinate strength without the need of Cancer Mage levels, at the risk of failing a Will save. Just cast a lesser restoration spell to cure the Con loss and you'd be good to go if you want to go by straight out mechanics. And that can be cast by a 3rd level cleric. The big drawbacks are a) the Will save, and b) time.
CrimsonDeath 12-27-07, 08:21 PM	Actually I believe there is a disease some where that increases your Natural armor and decreases you dexterity which would be effected the same way by being a cancer mage. Vile Rigidity, also from BoVD. Cancer Mage is the reason neither disease should exist (or vice versa).
epifreak 12-29-07, 02:05 PM	So no-one ever answered whether or not Might makes right is orc only. If so the kobold is right out.
awaken_D_M_golem 01-29-08, 07:40 PM	http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20030301a Might Makes Right [General] Your great strength draws more followers. Prerequisites: Str 13, Leadership. Benefit: Add your Strength bonus to your leadership score for the purposes of determining how many followers you may have with the Leadership feat. d20srd psionics section Mind Over Body [General] Your ability damage heals more rapidly. Prerequisite: Con 13. Benefit: You heal ability damage and ability burn damage more quickly than normal. You heal a number of ability points per day equal to 1 + your Constitution bonus. Normal: You heal ability damage and ability burn damage at a rate of 1 point per day. OK, so Kobold Martial Monk 1 with 2 flaws, Epic Leadership, Might Makes Right, Mind Over Body, and Con=15. Get infected with Festering Anger. MOB heals *2* points of Con damage. Regular healing heals 1 point of Con damage, which reactivates MOB, which heals the rest of the *3* points of Con damage. Therefore +2 Str every day, which leads to Infinite Followers, although your Cohort is a punk. There isn't a direct connection between followers and worshippers and Divine Ranks. But, infinite Str can easily PHB2 retrain all other stats above 400+, yeilding Epic skill checks in everything. Obviously this includes Diplomacy fanatics. Now all followers are worshipper for all intents and purposes. Yer prolly DvR 20 at this point. Good enough. My old version of Festering Anger involved Illumian, 2nd level generic caster and infinite spells. This newer version could do a Savage Species ceremony. But who needs infinite spells, when you have Alter Reality SDA.
CrimsonDeath 01-30-08, 02:53 AM	OK, so Kobold Martial Monk 1 with 2 flaws, Epic Leadership, Might Makes Right, Mind Over Body, and Con=15. I thought Martial Monk could only get Fighter bonus feats for his bonus feats. Also, I'm guessing you're referring to a Venerable Dragonwrought Kobold, but you didn't mention it.