Forgewraith, end of any campaign setting? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Forgewraith, end of any campaign setting? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
cog_n_taz
07-04-07, 03:30 AM Okay, for reference, this is something I recently used as a DM (as a cutscene style event, for about a minute), seriously scaring the players, right before another villain popped up and used an artifact to command the lot of em. Second, for those of you who have no idea what a forgewraith is, here's the link (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20041105b&page=6).

Now that that's out of the way, notice the create spawn bit? Yeah, ultra quick at 1d4 rounds, and there seems to be no way to prevent it. Additionally, they can cast fireball once per day.

Now, slip one in a city, and cast fireball at some random commoners, 10d6 will undoubtedly kill a 1st level commoner, even if they make their save, it's atleast 5 damage, and likelyhood is, it would even kill low-level PCs (3~4 ish). Anyone who gets whacked becomes a forgewraith pretty quickly, no questions asked. The spawn can also cast fireball, and they can all fly up to the top of tall buildings. Being incorporeal, the average person can't even scratch em, and they heal themselves with dex drain. Also because of incorporeality, they can fly through walls, so there's no escaping them. Additionally, their touch attack or ray alone is enough to whack the average townsperson.

So...end of the world from a CR 9 critter, regardless of campaign setting. Even elminster/the simbul/a god of your choice can't take thousands, ten thousands, or millions of these (depending on how many towns/cities/villages you knock over), and they can fly, so there's no escape. heck, being undead, these guys can fly through space, so you could even kiss spelljammer goodbye.

Thoughts?
DrStalker
07-04-07, 07:27 AM Thoughts?

Thought 1: that create spawn ability needs to be adjusted... prevent created spawns from using their special abilities for a while, or some such. Still very powerful and cinematic, but not as broken as the current version,

Thought 2: What's the LA rating on these things? :-)
cog_n_taz
07-04-07, 07:43 AM Well, create spawn can be broken, we all learnt that at kindergarden. One way would be to do what I did: don't restrain them in any way, and save the day at the last moment, or rather, delay the disaster. Another would be to restrict the spawn to the area they were created in, effectively forcing them to simply haunt the city. Another idea (if it's good, tell my dad, not me) would be to have them attracted to some fire, such as a volcano, and all flock there. Better yet, have them attracted to the sun (odd for undead, I know, but it's a darn big fire), so they're away for the day, and come nightfall, it snows forgewraiths. The simplest thing would be to prevent spawn either from using create spawn at all, or (for a milder nerf) don't allow them to use fireball.

LA? None, they aren't meant for use:P . Since someone is gonna want to use them anyway, though, they have 12 hd. As for LA, consdering the brokenness of create spawn for them, I'd go with 8. Or rather, take 8, turn it on its side, and use that.
Tempest Stormwind
07-04-07, 06:37 PM This belongs in Monsters, not Theoretical Optimization.

I trigger that ability off of its incorporeal touch (only), not its fireball. It's still potent but less broken in that regard.
cog_n_taz
07-04-07, 07:04 PM Yeah, that's probably best. Also, I put it here because it's a game breaker, but I guess I could repost it in monster's lair.

Also... a post from you, tempest? In my thread? I'm honored.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
cog_n_taz 07-04-07, 03:30 AM	Okay, for reference, this is something I recently used as a DM (as a cutscene style event, for about a minute), seriously scaring the players, right before another villain popped up and used an artifact to command the lot of em. Second, for those of you who have no idea what a forgewraith is, here's the link (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20041105b&page=6). Now that that's out of the way, notice the create spawn bit? Yeah, ultra quick at 1d4 rounds, and there seems to be no way to prevent it. Additionally, they can cast fireball once per day. Now, slip one in a city, and cast fireball at some random commoners, 10d6 will undoubtedly kill a 1st level commoner, even if they make their save, it's atleast 5 damage, and likelyhood is, it would even kill low-level PCs (3~4 ish). Anyone who gets whacked becomes a forgewraith pretty quickly, no questions asked. The spawn can also cast fireball, and they can all fly up to the top of tall buildings. Being incorporeal, the average person can't even scratch em, and they heal themselves with dex drain. Also because of incorporeality, they can fly through walls, so there's no escaping them. Additionally, their touch attack or ray alone is enough to whack the average townsperson. So...end of the world from a CR 9 critter, regardless of campaign setting. Even elminster/the simbul/a god of your choice can't take thousands, ten thousands, or millions of these (depending on how many towns/cities/villages you knock over), and they can fly, so there's no escape. heck, being undead, these guys can fly through space, so you could even kiss spelljammer goodbye. Thoughts?
DrStalker 07-04-07, 07:27 AM	Thoughts? Thought 1: that create spawn ability needs to be adjusted... prevent created spawns from using their special abilities for a while, or some such. Still very powerful and cinematic, but not as broken as the current version, Thought 2: What's the LA rating on these things? :-)
cog_n_taz 07-04-07, 07:43 AM	Well, create spawn can be broken, we all learnt that at kindergarden. One way would be to do what I did: don't restrain them in any way, and save the day at the last moment, or rather, delay the disaster. Another would be to restrict the spawn to the area they were created in, effectively forcing them to simply haunt the city. Another idea (if it's good, tell my dad, not me) would be to have them attracted to some fire, such as a volcano, and all flock there. Better yet, have them attracted to the sun (odd for undead, I know, but it's a darn big fire), so they're away for the day, and come nightfall, it snows forgewraiths. The simplest thing would be to prevent spawn either from using create spawn at all, or (for a milder nerf) don't allow them to use fireball. LA? None, they aren't meant for use:P . Since someone is gonna want to use them anyway, though, they have 12 hd. As for LA, consdering the brokenness of create spawn for them, I'd go with 8. Or rather, take 8, turn it on its side, and use that.
Tempest Stormwind 07-04-07, 06:37 PM	This belongs in Monsters, not Theoretical Optimization. I trigger that ability off of its incorporeal touch (only), not its fireball. It's still potent but less broken in that regard.
cog_n_taz 07-04-07, 07:04 PM	Yeah, that's probably best. Also, I put it here because it's a game breaker, but I guess I could repost it in monster's lair. Also... a post from you, tempest? In my thread? I'm honored.