Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Bard-of-all-trades 11-22-06, 01:28 AM	Howdy folks. My friends and I were sitting and discussing how high a character could get both BAB and Spells for a human arcane caster. I say the highest at level-20 is BAB +15 with 9th level spells, but my friend says BAB +17 with only 8th level spells. We have a ton of books, but not some of the latest stuff (i.e. PHB2, ToB, or Complete Mage). If you could enlighten us as to who might be right or if we are both right, we'd both appreciate it. Builds are most welcome, just site the books stuff is coming from so we can verify and make sure everything is legit. Thanks much. PS I went with Fighter 1/Wizard 5/Eldritch Knight 10/Archmage 4 for my BAB of +15 and 9th level spells. I forget off the top of my head what his build was.
deathwishjoe 11-22-06, 04:43 AM	hexblade 9/beholder mage 1/ eldritch knight 10 feats of note assume supernatural ability (antimagic eye) precocious apprentice (alter self) earth sense heighten spell earth spell we can cast 3rd level spells with earth spell feat and we qualify for Assume supernatural ability with alter self. we qualify for beholder mage with PaO changing us into a beholder and then use ASA to remove our antimagic eye. with this we have BAB 19 and 9th level spells.
Bard-of-all-trades 11-22-06, 10:48 AM	OK. Double checking the books at the moment for some of these feats. Where are they from again? Also how does a Hexblade cast 9th level spells? Clarification please. :)
FriendlyFrog 11-22-06, 11:22 AM	You're both pretty far from the truth. Even with only core books can you get a BAB of +16 and 9th level spells (Fighter 2/Wizard 8/Eldritch knight 10). Add Eberron campaign setting to that, and you can get +17 BAB and 9th level spells with a Fighter 1/Wizard 5/Knight phantom 10/Eldritch knight 4. And that's trying to keep it as simple as possible, you can get a lot better with adding more material to that.
deathwishjoe 11-22-06, 11:08 PM	OK. Double checking the books at the moment for some of these feats. Where are they from again? Also how does a Hexblade cast 9th level spells? Clarification please. we have 9th level spells not from hexblade but from beholder mage. although i could use cheatery to make him able to cast ninth level spells (like 3rd level spells heighten to 9th). beholder mage is found in Lords of madness. its not a PrC people are normally allowed into as you need to be a beholder to qualify but LoP's dirty trick #1 on these boards outlines how one can achieve this. assume supernatural ability (antimagic eye) precocious apprentice (alter self) earth sense heighten spell earth spell assume supernatural ability is one of the cheatery means of gaining entrance into beholder mage and is found in savage species. precocious apprentice allows you to cast a single 2nd level spell if you succedd in a dc 8 caster level check. after you are able to cast spells it adds it to your spells known. this is found in a wierd spot in complete arcane. dont remember the page number but its not with the other feats. earth sense and earth spell are found in races of stone. they auto heighten the second level precocious apprentice spell to third level for entrance into eldritch knight. highten is in the SRD
neceros 11-23-06, 03:03 PM	My favorite at the moment arcane gish is Paladin 3 / Warmage 7 / Eldritch Knight 10. I'm still playing around with Sorcerer instead of Warmage, but I'm not sure the differences between the two make a dramatic change. The biggest problem with Warmage is the selection of spells is all attack, though that is okay with me. You could take the alternate class feature from PHBII and learn some non-evocation spells.
bungo_underhill 11-27-06, 09:04 AM	If you allow UA paragons Fighter 1, Wizard 2, Human paragon 3 (or elf paragon 3), Spell Sword 1, Abjurant champion 5, Eldritch Knight 8 (or knight phantom 7 if you prefer). Bab +18, caster level 17 (9th level spells)
Taeldrin Laesrash 11-27-06, 09:28 AM	It's pretty easy thanks to Complete Mage. Wizard 6/Eldritch Knight 9/Abjurant Champion 5 The above build needs Militia to get in, and ends up with a BAB of 17 and a CL of 19.
Prominence 11-27-06, 10:50 AM	As above, with Battle Sorcerer 6 for an additional BaB.
Green_eyes 11-27-06, 05:35 PM	If you allow UA paragons Fighter 1, Wizard 2, Human paragon 3 (or elf paragon 3), Spell Sword 1, Abjurant champion 5, Eldritch Knight 8 (or knight phantom 7 if you prefer). Bab +18, caster level 17 (9th level spells) Actually CL 18 (= Do not forget, u took 5 levels of Abjurant Champion.
Green_eyes 11-27-06, 06:00 PM	Palladin 2/ Battle Sorceror 4/ Spellsword 1/ Abjurant Champion 5/ Knight Phantom 8 BAB 19, CL 19 8-th lvl spells, reduced MAD
B4cchus 11-28-06, 09:53 AM	another take on those (with fractional bab and ua variant) paladin2/monk1/battlesorc 3/abj champ 5/spellsword 1/ek 8 for bab 19, cl 19, 8th level spells. with the ascetic mage feat this one also gives cha to saves and ac. Combined with those nifty abj. champion abilities this leads quite an impressive AC.
Bard-of-all-trades 11-29-06, 01:41 AM	paladin2/monk1/battlesorc 3/abj champ 5/spellsword 1/ek 8 for bab 19, cl 19, 8th level spells. How do you get CL 19 from this build? Wouldn't 2 levels of Paladin, a level of Monk, and the Eldritch Knight first level drop you to at the least CL 16? Just double checking here. If you allow UA paragons Fighter 1, Wizard 2, Human paragon 3 (or elf paragon 3), Spell Sword 1, Abjurant champion 5, Eldritch Knight 8 (or knight phantom 7 if you prefer). Bab +18, caster level 18 (9th level spells){edited} Like this one quite a bit and it seems to be the highest BAB and CL I've seen together in one build. Can anyone make a legit 19 BAB & CL that can cast 9th level spells????
B4cchus 11-29-06, 03:44 AM	How do you get CL 19 from this build? Wouldn't 2 levels of Paladin, a level of Monk, and the Eldritch Knight first level drop you to at the least CL 16? Just double checking here. There are two ways on which that can be acchieved. First, Abjurant Champion 5 equals you CL to your BAB. Second, you could add the practiced spellcaster to fill the gap (not that this in neccaseary in this build, but still).
strenoth 11-29-06, 05:17 AM	your caster level woudl be 19, but you woudl cast spells as a 16th level caster. it's a caster level effect, not Spellcasting level effect, the difference between them is a Caster Level effect increases the power of your spells when cast, a Spellcasting Level effect (which I have never seen outside of the spellcaster level +1 progression of PrCs) increases yoru spellcasting level, including number of spells known & spells per day.
B4cchus 11-29-06, 09:00 AM	Yes, i know all that. What is exactly the point you want to make? Anyways. I think i go a BAB 19, CL 19 lvl 9 spells build here: F1 / battle sorc 4/spellsword 1/abj champion 5/eldritch knight 9 bab=19, cl = bab (so also 19) and cast as a 18 sorcerer, which gives lvl 9 spells.
Green_eyes 11-29-06, 09:34 AM	Like this one quite a bit and it seems to be the highest BAB and CL I've seen together in one build. Can anyone make a legit 19 BAB & CL that can cast 9th level spells???? I really doubt it... There are not enough PrCs with full BaB/CL progression. Actually Abjurant Champ is the only one i know. Most of them are 10/9. And u would need 17 caster levels (i'm talking wizard here) to get your fisrt 9th level spell slot. Fighter 2/Warblade 1/Wizard 3/Spellsword 1/Dragonslayer 1/Abjurant Champion 5/... This is where i stuck. U need to fill these last 7 levels with something that has full BAB and CL progression. Then You'd get 19/19 that can cast 9th level spells. Edit: I totaly forgot about Battle Sorcer (=
B4cchus 11-29-06, 12:14 PM	I really doubt it... I think i just proved it and indeed, only with the battle sorcerer
Green_eyes 11-29-06, 12:40 PM	I said, I forgot about Battle Sorcer (= It's a nice build you made, although I don't really like Eldritch knight when you go out of core material. Now... It is impossible to build 20BAB/20CL casting 9th level spells monstrousity. Well, not if you go gestalt anyway (=
Bard-of-all-trades 11-29-06, 12:50 PM	your caster level woudl be 19, but you woudl cast spells as a 16th level caster. it's a caster level effect, not Spellcasting level effect, the difference between them is a Caster Level effect increases the power of your spells when cast, a Spellcasting Level effect (which I have never seen outside of the spellcaster level +1 progression of PrCs) increases yoru spellcasting level, including number of spells known & spells per day.Thanks for the clarification. We don't have that book yet. Does Abjurant Champion have full spellcasting progression as well? And what exactly is the BAB progression for an Abjurant Champion? LOL if anyone would like to send me the chart for it, I'd appreciate it.
Green_eyes 11-29-06, 12:56 PM	Abjurant Champion is a 5/5 PrC. And he has a class feature that turns your BAB into CL.
Cael 11-29-06, 03:10 PM	Well, there is always the standard: Paladin 1/Sorcerer 4/Spellsword 1/Abjurant Champion 5/Dragonslayer 1/Knight Phantom 8 BAB 18, SCL 18
B4cchus 11-29-06, 05:18 PM	I said, I forgot about Battle Sorcer (= It's a nice build you made, although I don't really like Eldritch knight when you go out of core material. Now... It is impossible to build 20BAB/20CL casting 9th level spells monstrousity. Well, not if you go gestalt anyway (= Yep, that's why i included the 'indeed' in the sentance. It is indeed seems impossible to get 20/20/lvl 9. And i always concider gestalt.. well.. let's just not talk about that :)
Green_eyes 11-29-06, 06:16 PM	Well, there is always the standard: Paladin 1/Sorcerer 4/Spellsword 1/Abjurant Champion 5/Dragonslayer 1/Knight Phantom 8 BAB 18, SCL 18 Whay paladin? No reason to take only one level. U only get Divine Grace on your second level. Take Fighter 1 for that bonus feat.
Cael 11-29-06, 09:56 PM	Whay paladin? No reason to take only one level. U only get Divine Grace on your second level. Take Fighter 1 for that bonus feat. Lay on Hands for a bit of minimal healing. I was trying to stay away from the Fighter. I don't want the universe to contract another foot :D
ninjarabbit 11-30-06, 08:05 AM	A few high BAB/CL build for your enjoyment: battlesorcerer8/abjurantchampion5/dragonslayer1/spellsword1/eldrtichknight5: BAB 18, CL 19 paladin2/sorcerer4/spellword1/abjurantchampion5/sacredexorcist8: BAB 16, CL 18 (17 BAB with battlesorcerer) and you get turning duskblade2/paladin4/suelarchamach4/spellsword1/abjurantchampion5/fullBABclass4: BAB 19, CL 19 with abjurant champion's martial arcanist though you only get 5th level spells
Billco 12-01-06, 12:19 AM	Can I ask what book Dragon Slayer is in? Or more directly, which book is Dragon Slayer in? Thanks
Green_eyes 12-01-06, 03:17 AM	Draconomicon
FriendlyFrog 12-01-06, 03:17 AM	Can I ask what book Dragon Slayer is in? Or more directly, which book is Dragon Slayer in? Draconomicon. EDIT: Damn, posted at the same time!
neceros 12-01-06, 04:00 AM	another take on those (with fractional bab and ua variant) paladin2/monk1/battlesorc 3/abj champ 5/spellsword 1/ek 8 for bab 19, cl 19, 8th level spells. with the ascetic mage feat this one also gives cha to saves and ac. Combined with those nifty abj. champion abilities this leads quite an impressive AC. You stole my build! :)
neceros 12-01-06, 04:02 AM	Thanks for the clarification. We don't have that book yet. Does Abjurant Champion have full spellcasting progression as well? And what exactly is the BAB progression for an Abjurant Champion? LOL if anyone would like to send me the chart for it, I'd appreciate it. Abjurant Champion is Full BAB, Full Spells and some really good class abilities. It'd be nice if WoTC actually made the class do what it says, however. Even the sample chaarcter is using Mage Armor to get +9 AC. Tsk tsk, unhelpful Ask Wizards.
Billco 12-01-06, 11:51 AM	Well, there is always the standard: Paladin 1/Sorcerer 4/Spellsword 1/Abjurant Champion 5/Dragonslayer 1/Knight Phantom 8 BAB 18, SCL 18 I am fairly new to the whole optimization game, but don't you need a higher base attack bonus (+5) to qualify for the Abjurant Champion? It seems like you only have +4 after 1 level of Spell Sword.
PonTelon 12-01-06, 01:40 PM	I dunno if it has been said, but take any of the above builds and add Kobold for one more actual level of casting thanks to the Greater Draconic Rite of Passage (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20060420a). Play a Kobold, save the world.
Green_eyes 12-01-06, 02:29 PM	I am fairly new to the whole optimization game, but don't you need a higher base attack bonus (+5) to qualify for the Abjurant Champion? It seems like you only have +4 after 1 level of Spell Sword. Ooops... Good eyes, lad. It should have either Paladin 2 or BSorcer 4.
Cael 12-03-06, 03:23 PM	I am fairly new to the whole optimization game, but don't you need a higher base attack bonus (+5) to qualify for the Abjurant Champion? It seems like you only have +4 after 1 level of Spell Sword. Yes it does. You can mix in a Ruathar level or three in there and take out some Knight Phantom ones. Slight less BAB, but same CL. I tend to shy away from UA stuff, so that is about the best I can do in terms of BAB and CL: 17 and 18.
Green_eyes 12-04-06, 12:39 PM	The best variant without UA in terms of BAB\CL is 18\18 IIRC. That way you can cast 9th level spells. Otherwise it's 19\19 and 8th level spells.
Timlagor 12-05-06, 07:41 PM	Spell levels are more important than CL or BAB imo. Getting 9th level spells is great but the extra 9th level spells from extra spell levels should not be ignored.
Hyfigh 12-06-06, 05:10 PM	I suppose here is better than any to ask how most people play their Gish? Is it more effective to improve you casting abilities through metamagic feats and other magic enhancers? Would it be better to pick up quite a few combat oriented feats and melee more than fighting? I'm not asking so much personal preferrence, but more of which one is stronger.
Cael 12-06-06, 06:27 PM	The best variant without UA in terms of BAB\CL is 18\18 IIRC. That way you can cast 9th level spells. Otherwise it's 19\19 and 8th level spells. What gish is that? I am talking actual caster levels, not those augmented by Practiced Spellcaster. Assume no feats are involved... I usually play my gish as a frontline fighter with Arcane Strike and a Spellsword Channeled AMS as back-up.
Hyfigh 12-06-06, 06:33 PM	Both Palladin 2/ Battle Sorceror 4/ Spellsword 1/ Abjurant Champion 5/ Knight Phantom 8 BAB 19, CL 19 8-th lvl spells, reduced MAD and F1 / battle sorc 4/spellsword 1/abj champion 5/eldritch knight 9make 19/19. 5th level of Abjurant Champion adjusts CL to equal BAB.
Bard-of-all-trades 12-06-06, 10:23 PM	OK just so I understand this right, when you folks say CL 19 that does not, repeat not, mean that they can cast as many spells as a 19th level caster. I understand that they cast as a 19th level caster, but they drop spell levels from any levels of Fighter or Eldritch Knight. So, did I understand that correctly? There is a diffference in caster level and spell level, right?
Hyfigh 12-07-06, 08:58 AM	Yes. The Palladin 2/ Battle Sorceror 4/ Spellsword 1/ Abjurant Champion 5/ Knight Phantom 8 build casts 8th level spells (as a 17th sorcerer) with a CL 19 (Abjurant Champ 5 allows CL to equal BAB). F1 / battle sorc 4/spellsword 1/abj champion 5/eldritch knight 9 does cast 9th level spells on the other hand (18th level sorcerer this time).
B4cchus 12-08-06, 05:49 PM	Indeed. Caster level is only used for certain variable effects of spells (and a lot of other things like magical item activation and creation, entry requirements for feats and prestige classes etc). Spell level is just the highest level of spells one can cast. In builds using things like abjurant champion and/or practiced spellcaster the caster level can be relatively higher than the highest level spell that one can cast. This is the result of increase in caster level without taking levels (or gaining them through prestige classes) in a caster class.
Think0028 12-08-06, 11:23 PM	Greatest disparity would, of course, be 3rd level spells with CL 19*. Which is kinda funny. *Fighter 5 (yeah, kill me, this is supposed to be unoptimized)/Sorc 1/Abj Champ 5/Fighter +9 (told ya so)
Merryadocc 12-30-06, 01:38 AM	This is the first time I have ever spent this much time on the Character Optimization boards, I am learning more than I want to I think, or at least the people I play with or run games for are gonna complain about some of my new found cheese, I don't read as many rule books I used to after some of the stuff that's been comming out made me think they where just releasing stuff for the money. I need to ask as I can't find it on the http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/lists/prc where is the Phantom Knight found?
FriendlyFrog 12-30-06, 05:45 AM	I think that the reason you didn't find it probably is that it's actually Knight phantom, not Phantom knight. But anyways, the PrC can be found in Five nations and in it's excrept (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20050706a&page=4).
Xaktsaroth 01-01-07, 01:09 PM	Spell levels are more important than CL or BAB imo. Getting 9th level spells is great but the extra 9th level spells from extra spell levels should not be ignored. I beg to differ. For an example, let's say you have a Warlock 9/ Ur-Priest 2/ Eldritch Disciple 7. You'd probably like that build, it has access to level 8th level spells(assuming a high enough Wis). However, the build has a CL of 8, which makes it worthless in my mind. I'd rather have CL 20 with 2nd level spells, then 8th level spells with CL 8, for this reason: d20srd:Magic Overview - Caster Level: A spell’s power often depends on its caster level, which for most spellcasting characters is equal to your class level in the class you’re using to cast the spell. You can cast a spell at a lower caster level than normal, but the caster level you choose must be high enough for you to cast the spell in question, and all level-dependent features must be based on the same caster level. In the event that a class feature, domain granted power, or other special ability provides an adjustment to your caster level, that adjustment applies not only to effects based on caster level (such as range, duration, and damage dealt) but also to your caster level check to overcome your target’s spell resistance and to the caster level used in dispel checks (both the dispel check and the DC of the check). You have to have a minimum CL to cast the spell, so if you don't have at least CL 17, you can't cast 9th level spells, and such. Which makes the Warlock 9/ Ur-Priest 2/ Eldritch Disciple 7 with a CL of 8, only capable to cast 4th level spells. It has access to 5th, 6th, 7th, and 8th, but can't cast them. This is why I push people to take Practiced Spellcaster(Ur-Priest). That extra 4 CL plus some CL items will enable you to cast the higher level spells. Caster Level is everything. :)
FriendlyFrog 01-01-07, 04:35 PM	Which makes the Warlock 9/ Ur-Priest 2/ Eldritch Disciple 7 with a CL of 8, only capable to cast 4th level spells. It has access to 5th, 6th, 7th, and 8th, but can't cast them. I don't think this is true. I don't think there are general caster level requirements for spells of certain level, instead every class has its own. If a Cleric needs to have a caster level of 15 to cast 8th level spells, it doesn't mean an Ur-priest needs too. I haven't seen anything like that in the rules. At least magic item creation rules (well, determining the cost of creating them at least) point out that even if Clerics, Druids, Paladins, Rangers and Wizards need only a caster level of 7 to cast 4th level spells, a Sorcerer needs a caster level of 8, and a Bard needs a caster level of 10.
Bard-of-all-trades 01-02-07, 01:12 AM	OK nice debate, but I'm looking for for both high BAB as well as the highest Caster and Spell Level. I have also stated earlier that I'm looking to cast as high of levels of spells as I can, such as 8th or 9th level. Besides, I'm not entirely sure how Ur-Priest works so, seeing as the campaign I'm interested in using this build in is not allowing evil PCs, this is a moot point. I'm looking to see if I can get a +19/19th/Level-9 in one character. Anyone got one?
mikeloop86 01-02-07, 06:14 PM	Human Battle Sorcerer 8/Abjurant Champion 5/Dragonslayer 1/Eldritch Knight 6 Thats the best I got. With 19 spellcaster level and 18 BAB. You also get free proficiency with all weapons and immunity to fear from Dragonslayer. I never liked taking Spellsword, as the Battlecaster Feat combined with Mithral Fullplate = love. That and a shield is useless when you have auto quickened augmented Shield spells. This leaves you free to weild a nice two handed weapon.
Xaktsaroth 01-02-07, 08:23 PM	I don't think this is true. I don't think there are general caster level requirements for spells of certain level, instead every class has its own. If a Cleric needs to have a caster level of 15 to cast 8th level spells, it doesn't mean an Ur-priest needs too. I haven't seen anything like that in the rules. At least magic item creation rules (well, determining the cost of creating them at least) point out that even if Clerics, Druids, Paladins, Rangers and Wizards need only a caster level of 7 to cast 4th level spells, a Sorcerer needs a caster level of 8, and a Bard needs a caster level of 10. I have. Complete Divine, pg. 70. Ur-Priest; Spells per day. The Ur-Priest spell list is identical to the cleric spell list. An Ur-Priest has access to any spell on the list and prepares those spells as a cleric, except that he does not pray for spells; he just takes them. An Ur-Priest casts spells as a cleric does.... Since all a Ur-Priest's spellcasting is 'like a clerics', then it makes sense they would be held to the same minimum caster level requirements, no?
FriendlyFrog 01-03-07, 01:52 AM	Since all a Ur-Priest's spellcasting is 'like a clerics', then it makes sense they would be held to the same minimum caster level requirements, no? Hmm, you know, I'd say that the rules could very well be read that way. Though I'm not sure if it was intended, other fast spell progression prestige classes have similar texts, but no way to get a caster level high enough to cast all their spells when they first get them. But what spells the Ur-priest casts have nothing to do with how they're supposed to cast them, and "prepares those spells as a Cleric" I think is just something that's supposed to make clear if they need to prepare their spells or not. The meaning of that "An Ur-Priest casts spells as a cleric does" is quite ambiguous, though. Though I'd think that WotC would mention that an Ur-priest might not be able to cast his spells without building the character so that he'll have high enough caster level. But that's just what I think would be logical, I can't say that WotC has been proved to think in a similar way before...
Timlagor 01-12-07, 11:42 AM	I'm fairly sure it says that an Ur Priest gets spells as laid out in the table which makes it clear that they don't need extra caster level. You're reading far too much into it to get a frankly silly conclusion.
awaken_D_M_golem 01-16-07, 08:18 PM	ready for some hyper-ventilating ? here goes ... Ardent 4 / +1 bab 2 / any two of these : Illithid Slayer or SRD Slayer 2-10 Sanctified Mind 2-6 CPsi "stormy" PrC 2-4 Iron Mind 2-5 and don't forget: feat Practiced Manifester. end up with Slayer for +19 BAB and manifester level 20 with two 8s and four 9s. I'll presume the OC board knows the XPH is Core ... :D
Think0028 01-17-07, 10:43 AM	ready for some hyper-ventilating ? here goes ... Ardent 4 / +1 bab 2 / any two of these : Illithid Slayer or SRD Slayer 2-10 Sanctified Mind 2-6 CPsi "stormy" PrC 2-4 Iron Mind 2-5 and don't forget: feat Practiced Manifester. end up with Slayer for +19 BAB and manifester level 20 with two 8s and four 9s. ... uhm, how are you ignoring the first level of those PRCs? Or am I misreading your post?
awaken_D_M_golem 01-17-07, 07:29 PM	Sorry Think0028, I was using my version of short-hand ... 1. Ardent 1 2. Fighter 1 3. Ardent 2 , feat: Practised Manifester 4. Fighter 2 5-6. Ardent 3-4 7-10. whichever 1-4 11-20. Slayer 1-10 Taking more Ardent loses bab for a difficult to choose "feat" and a powers list that's not necessary at high levels or with good planning. Losing 4 caster/-fester levels is mitigated by the unique interactions of PM and highest power available. More details are on the Psi boards and Tleilaxu_Ghola has *two* threads on the Ardent on the CO boards.
Harye 01-26-07, 08:05 PM	I'm relatively new but: More Caster: 1 ftr1 bab +1 CL +0 2 wiz1 bab +1 CL +1 3 wiz2 bab +2 CL +2 4 wiz3 bab +2 CL +3 5 wiz4 bab +3 CL +4 6 wiz5 bab +3 CL +5 7 wiz6 bab +4 CL +6 8 SS1 bab +5 CL +7 9 AC1 bab +6 CL +8 10 AC2 bab +7 CL +9 11 AC3 bab +8 CL +10 12 AC4 bab +9 CL +11 13 AC5 bab +10 CL +12 14 EK1 bab +11 CL +12 15 EK2 bab +12 CL +13 16 EK3 bab +13 CL +14 17 EK4 bab +14 CL +15 18 EK5 bab +15 CL +16 19 EK6 bab +16 CL +17 20 EK7 bab +17 CL +18 Ftr = Fighter, Wiz = Wizard, SS = Spell Sword, AC = Abjurant Champion, EK = Eldritch Knight. Personally I love that these can use Mithral Twighlight Fullplate, and a Mithral Heavy Shield without hassle. Not to mention their pick of marital weapons. Gish builds are just too fun!
GaffeR 01-26-07, 10:47 PM	AC = Abjurant Champion, I assume, Harye? AC is only a 5 level PrC.
Harye 01-27-07, 11:28 AM	Thank you GaffeR, fixed that problem I hope. :P I should remember to go to bed before 3am! (I hear its easier to think after sleep...never tested.)
awaken_D_M_golem 01-28-07, 04:10 PM	more on the Ardent ... An Ardent can still manage 9th level powers , while losing !! 7 !! levels , with just Practised Manifester. And since this is the OC board , start with Cleric for Miracle at level 6 , but you don't need all those levels to get there , just the feats , add in Dirty Trick #1 for Beholder Mage , a couple of Ardent levels to allow both - Cerebremancer and Mystic Theurge , you still have two more levels to fudge with , while : BAB +17 from Divine Power via miracle 9th level Psionic powers via Ardent 9th level Arcane spells via Beholder Mage 9th level Divine spell via miracle at level 6 (improved) gee ... you could take Chameleon or ... Rogue for traps / evasion or be a Kobold and take the substitution level for trap finding , and then take MartialMonk for a couple of early epic feats ... I'm kinda bad with builds , somebody want to flesh out the feats for this ? pretty please :bigeyes:
awaken_D_M_golem 01-28-07, 04:18 PM	ZOMG - a rarity from me If you don't mind Dragon #349 , the feat : Psiotheugist { pick one discipline } And if Miracle at level 6 , can be done with the feats alone ... Now Druid can be brought into the mix with the Blighter. hmm ... Druid 5 into Blighter 1 Cleric 1 into miracle at level 6 with feats Beholder Mage 1 via dirty trick #1 the double count class for Blighter and BMage the other double count class maybe to continue and one level of Ardent w/ the psiotheurgist to get a 9th level power this MIGHT be BAB +17 with 9th level cleric, Druid, arcane and psi ! and still have 1 level left ...
FriendlyFrog 01-29-07, 02:29 AM	You don't even need Miracle shenanigans to pull 9/9/9 out. Illumian 1. Cleric 1 --- Iron will 2. Ardent 1 3. Ardent 2 --- Spell focus (Evil) 4. Ardent 3 5. Ardent 4 6. Ur-priest 1 --- Improved sigil (Krau) 7. Psychic theurge 1 8. Psychic theurge 2 9. Psychic theurge 3 --- Practiced manifester (Ardent) 10. Psychic theurge 4 11. Psychic theurge 5 12. Beholder mage 1 --- Practiced spellcaster (Ur-priest) 13. Mystic theurge 1 14. Mystic theurge 2 15. Mystic theurge 3 --- Practiced spellcaster (Beholder mage) 16. Mystic theurge 4 17. Cerebremancer 1 18. Cerebremancer 2 --- [Free feat] 19. Cerebremancer 3 20. Cerebremancer 4 That's 9th level arcane spells, 9th level divine spells and 9th level psionic powers in one build.
Bard-of-all-trades 01-30-07, 10:53 AM	OK starting to drift from my original post folks. I'm looking for an arcane caster that can cast 8th or 9th level spells and have the highest BAB possible for the build. There are 2 other divine casters in our party of 5 and, at this time, no arcane casters. These are nice builds, but not what I need at the moment. Also, no psionics, sorry.
awaken_D_M_golem 01-30-07, 07:30 PM	quote : No Psionics you've got to be kidding me , on the OC board :embarrass . Psi- is free , at d20srd.org right now , and it's core. Ok , so i went and banged my head against Bard-of-all-trades wall ... How about Dirty Trick #1B : just use dirty trick 1 on the OC main page. Start as Rogue 1 , then go your much desired Wizard. At 6th level take Assume Supernatural feat, and pay for a Polymorph Any Object into a : Reason Stealer !!! { in MM2 } Then have your two divine casters summon everything they can summon. Soon after eating them all , you'll be able to summon more. Eventually , your 6th level character will be BAB +20 and 9th level Arcane prepared spells. Your stats 'll be outrageous too :D
Bard-of-all-trades 01-31-07, 01:17 PM	Wow! I'll have to look that stuff up. Thanks awaken_D_M_golem. But the reason no psionics, is I'm the only one with a book and the rest of the group hates them about as much as they hate Bards. What can you do??
Sactheminions 01-31-07, 04:50 PM	Pal2/Battle Sorceror 4/AbjChp5/SS1/EK8 CL17, 9th level spells with Greater Draconic Rite, BAB 19. Of course, you have to be a Kobold. But then you get to flick your tongue out like a serpent. And that's sort of cool, especially if you do it every time you cast Time Stop to buff yourself. Whee. Or with the militia feat: BS8/SS1/AbjChp5/EK6 CL19, BAB18, No need to be a Kobold, but you don't get any Divine Grace or anything, which is probably worth the CL's...
awaken_D_M_golem 02-11-07, 03:48 PM	in a boring way , Cleric20 with DivinePower is BAB +20 and 9s. in a new and not so boring way : Fighter 20 Item of Imbue with Spell Ability Miracle at level 6 - support stuff is BAB+20 and 9s Linky
Bard-of-all-trades 02-12-07, 12:36 AM	Does Miracle imbue with arcane spellcasting?
awaken_D_M_golem 02-12-07, 04:44 PM	d20srd.org/spells/miracle (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/miracle.htm) quote : duplicate any other spell of 7th level or lower. throw in psi-/magic transparency ... cleric 8s , all others 7s , any psi- 7s
Bard-of-all-trades 02-12-07, 05:59 PM	OK not seeing how this imbues a fighter with arcane casting ability to 9th level from a divine spell.
The_Mad_Linguist 02-13-07, 07:26 PM	You can burn 9th level cleric slots to us 7th level or lower slots for any other class. It's not very useful for a gish, and hardly counts.
ophanimx 02-23-07, 11:01 PM	LE Human Wizard 4/Monk 1/ur-Priest 2/Mystic Theurge 8/Abjurant Champion 5 I don't think it actually works. I can't think of a way to qualify for ur-Priest at 6 without losing more then one arcane caster level. Edit: It's meant to work on Divine Power. 20 BAB = 20th arcane caster level. ur-Priest's spells arn't too bad, either.
Aralen 03-01-07, 04:05 PM	For BAB 19, Caster Level Progression 18 (9th level spells), CL 19: Battle Sorc 4/Fighter 1/Spellsword 1/Abjurant Champion 5/Dragonslayer 9 Of course, you need 3 qualifying feats. It's a good idea to use divine power, too bad UR has to be evil.
FriendlyFrog 03-02-07, 04:45 AM	For BAB 19, Caster Level Progression 18 (9th level spells), CL 19: Battle Sorc 4/Fighter 1/Spellsword 1/Abjurant Champion 5/Dragonslayer 9. Uh, Dragonslayer has only half casting progression, your build only casts spells as a level 15 Battle Sorcerer (7th level spells).
mikeloop86 03-02-07, 08:50 AM	Human Battle Sorcerer 8/Abjurant Champion 5/Dragonslayer 1/Eldritch Knight 6 Thats the best I got. With 19 spellcaster level and 18 BAB. You also get free proficiency with all weapons and immunity to fear from Dragonslayer. I never liked taking Spellsword, as the Battlecaster Feat combined with Mithral Fullplate = love. That and a shield is useless when you have auto quickened augmented Shield spells. This leaves you free to weild a nice two handed weapon. Ahem, just a question, why doesn't this build help? Or any of the others that have come up? What specifically are you looking for that the builds, as of now, don't measure up to?
Hyfigh 03-02-07, 08:59 AM	It doesn't appear to be looking for a specific build anymore, but more of a compilation of different gish builds.
WombleHunter 03-02-07, 04:17 PM	Well, there is always the standard: Paladin 1/Sorcerer 4/Spellsword 1/Abjurant Champion 5/Dragonslayer 1/Knight Phantom 8 BAB 18, SCL 18 How do you work that? In the order you have the classes, you don't qualify - you're short a point of BAB for Spellsword. And why bother with Dragonslayer if you have Paladin in there? And likewise, the only reason I can think that you need Spellsword is for the 10% ASF reduction. Wizard 5/Eldritch Knight 10/Abjurant Champion 5 gives you BAB +17 and 19th level spellcasting, but requires the Militia feat which isn't always available.
Bard-of-all-trades 03-02-07, 04:56 PM	Ahem, just a question, why doesn't this build help? Or any of the others that have come up? What specifically are you looking for that the builds, as of now, don't measure up to? I never said this build didn't help. In fact this is one build I'm going to run up the flagpole for the DM and see if he salutes. The builds that aren't helping are the divine casting builds with miracle and such. I know for a fact that there will be a Cleric 17 and a Druid/Wizard/Arcane Hierophant build so the divine casting is well teken care of. I'm looking for arcane casters with the highest spellcaster level, highest level of spells to cast (i.e. 9th level spells) and the highest BAB I can get my greedy little hands on.
tblade2001 03-16-07, 02:21 AM	Here's a build I've been working on: Evoker 4/Fighter 1/Master Specialist (Evoker) 1/Eldritch Knight 1/Spellsword 1/Master Specialist (Evoker) 2nd/Abjurant Champion 5/Eldritch Knight 2-7 BAB: 17 Casts 9th level spells as a 18th lvl Evoker And here's the nice crunchy cool bit: Master Specialist (Evoker)'s 2nd Level ability is to add ANY evocation spell to his spell book. This guy's second MS(E) level is just in time to catch 4th level spells. Which means he can pick up Divine Power. That with the Abjurant Champ's 5th level ability (Caster Level = BAB), you get CL 20, BAB 20 and +6 to Strength. :D That plus 10% off ASF and A.C.'s nice abilities.
The Rizz 03-17-07, 03:15 AM	Master Specialist (Evoker)'s 2nd Level ability is to add ANY evocation spell to his spell book.This point is debatable. The RAW doesn't say you can take anything outside your list, although it also doesn't say you can't - it's really a DM call at that point, and I think most DMs would reject the ability to grab outside your class list. Of course, YMMV.
Osedox 03-17-07, 07:01 AM	Here's a build I've been working on: Evoker 4/Fighter 1/Master Specialist (Evoker) 1/Eldritch Knight 1/Spellsword 1/Master Specialist (Evoker) 2nd/Abjurant Champion 5/Eldritch Knight 2-7 BAB: 17 Casts 9th level spells as a 18th lvl Evoker And here's the nice crunchy cool bit: Master Specialist (Evoker)'s 2nd Level ability is to add ANY evocation spell to his spell book. This guy's second MS(E) level is just in time to catch 4th level spells. Which means he can pick up Divine Power. That with the Abjurant Champ's 5th level ability (Caster Level = BAB), you get CL 20, BAB 20 and +6 to Strength. :D That plus 10% off ASF and A.C.'s nice abilities.Are you suggesting that because CL equals BAB from the Abjurant Champion, casting Divine Power will give you both at 20? The way I see it, it that casting Divine Power would raise your BAB by one to 18, not to 20 (because your CL is only 18). Of course if Practiced Spellcaster is added in, then this entire post was pointless.
FriendlyFrog 03-17-07, 07:43 AM	Are you suggesting that because CL equals BAB from the Abjurant Champion, casting Divine Power will give you both at 20? The way I see it, it that casting Divine Power would raise your BAB by one to 18, not to 20 (because your CL is only 18). Of course if Practiced Spellcaster is added in, then this entire post was pointless. Divine power sets your BAB to match your HD, not your caster level.
The Rizz 03-17-07, 10:33 AM	This build ends up with a BAB of 18 and CL of 19. I feel it's a little better than mikeloop86's previous Battle Sorcerer build (which achieved the same BAB/CL) due to the Battle Sorcerer's lost spells. Race/Alignment: Human, chaotic evil Feats: At first level, you take two flaws (UA) (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/buildingCharacters/characterFlaws.htm), and the feats Willing Deformity (BoVD), Thrall to Demon (BoVD), Deformity [any] (BoVD), Favored [any with Knowledge (Planes)] (City). You will also have a bonus feat from your base class. At third level, you take Primary Contact [Knowledge (Planes)] (City) Combat Casting must be taken before entering Abjurant Champion. The rest of the feats are open. Classes: Wizard or Wu Jen (CA) 4 / Thrall of Eltab (FR:CoR) 1 / Eldritch Knight 9 or 10 / Spellsword (CW) 0 or 1 / Abjurant Champion (CM) 4 or 5 You lose two BAB for your base spellcasting classes, and one caster level for Eldritch Knight 1. This leaves you with BAB +18 / CL 19 You can move the Abjurant Champion, Eldritch Knight, and Spellsword levels around as you wish, but the sixth levels has to be Eldritch Knight 1 (due to Prerequisites). Alternative Bardic Build: You can instead do Bard 4 / Thrall of Eltab 1 / Spellsword 1 / Abjurant Champion 3 / Knight Phantom (Eb:5N) 1 / Sublime Chord 2 / Abjurant Champion +2 / Knight Phantom +6 This nets you the same BAB +18 / CL 19 as the above build, and gives you a few more options to play with: While your first 7 levels must come in the order given above, and Sublime Chord 1 should be your 11th level, the rest of the levels can be moved around pretty much at will, with greater or fewer levels taken in the various classes. Eldritch Knight has been replaced with the superior Knight Phantom in this build, but it is not necessary to do so.
Osedox 03-17-07, 01:21 PM	Divine power sets your BAB to match your HD, not your caster level.Your absolutly right, I totaly missed that. For some reason I was always under the impression that it was based off of CL like almost all spells. (For that matter can anyone even think of another spell that is based off of character level as opposed to CL?)
ShubNiggurath 03-17-07, 05:47 PM	LE Human Wizard 4/Monk 1/ur-Priest 2/Mystic Theurge 8/Abjurant Champion 5 I don't think it actually works. I can't think of a way to qualify for ur-Priest at 6 without losing more then one arcane caster level. Edit: It's meant to work on Divine Power. 20 BAB = 20th arcane caster level. ur-Priest's spells arn't too bad, either. Monk does not work due to the fact that spellcraft is not a class list for monks. You can probably fix that with a feat, though. Otherwise your choices are: 1)Wizard 4/CLERIC 1/ur-Priest 2/Mystic Theurge 8/Abjurant Champion 5 yes, cleric. You lose the spell connected to that single cleric level, but actually worth it if your DM let you keep the domain powers (planning and undeath, anyone?) 2)Wizard 4/DRAGONFIRE ADEPT 1/ur-Priest 2/Mystic Theurge 8/Abjurant Champion 5 probably the best build. You can find dragonfire adept on dragon magic 3)Wizard 5/mindbender 1/ur-Priest 2/Mystic Theurge 8/Abjurant Champion 4 better at low-ish levels, worse than number 2 at high levels. Best if you don't have dragon magic and your DM does not let you keep the domain powers
The Rizz 03-17-07, 06:20 PM	Monk does not work due to the fact that spellcraft is not a class list for monks. You can probably fix that with a feat, though. Regardless of whether a skill is purchased as a class skill or a cross-class skill, if it is a class skill for any of your classes, your maximum rank equals your total character level + 3. So, it doesn't matter that monk does not have spellcraft on its list so long as another class previously taken does, and you spend two points at that monk level to increase it.
Juton 04-07-07, 02:42 PM	Generic Spellcaster X / Drangon slayer 1 / Abjurant Champion 5 / Other PrC Y Generic Spellcaster is similar to a sorcerer, except you can choose spells from the Wizard, Cleric and Druid lists. So take Divine Power (I think it's the spell) so your BAB = Character Level. If you are able to fit Incatrix into this build then you can persist Divine Power, so it lasts all day long. Dragon Slayer 1 gives you all simple and martial weapon proficiencies, Abjurant Champion is there because it's, well, Abjurant Champion and this is a gish build. So this would give a BAB of 20, access to a very large spell list, and a CL of 20, with spells per day of a 20th level sorcerer.
Lord_of_Omnipotence 04-16-07, 03:54 AM	Duskblade 20 20 BAB, 20 Caster levels
Bard-of-all-trades 04-17-07, 11:32 PM	Duskblade 20 20 BAB, 20 Caster levels True, however it cannot cast 9th level spells. Sorry, not what I'm looking for.
Argentsaber 04-27-07, 08:21 PM	with the OP's name , i can't believe no one has yet used sublime chord. i present the Gish i will be playing soon (actually trained with the githyanki) bard8/dragonslayer1/sublime chord2/eldrich knight9 add in apprentice for umd and perform fun, and you are all set.
Meyer_William 05-01-07, 11:47 PM	What about the following: Sorceror 4: EldritchKnight 2: Spellsword 1: Abjurant Champion 5: EldritchKnight 8 (using sanctum spell to get into eldritch knight) Build Options: 0 LA Aasimar / Tiefling for proficiency with weapons/armor True caster level 19 / BAB +18 Or: BattleSorceror 4: EldritchKnight 2: Spellsword 1: Abjurant Champion 5: EldritchKnight 8 Build Options: 0 LA Aasimar / Tiefling for proficiency with weapons/armor True caster level 19 / BAB +18 ... I dont have the stats for dragonslayer ... though i hear it is pretty nice ... depending on what its requirements are ... it could be used to get into eldritch knight without need to aasimar/tiefling .. in which case -- being a kobold with greater draconic rite (or whatever it is called) would net you a CL 20/BAB18
heisenheim 05-03-07, 07:54 AM	you again? how many times i've to say that you couldn't use spells to qualify for PrC's?
Meyer_William 05-03-07, 09:15 AM	Amazing ... you cannot use spells to qualify ... so it must be very difficult to enter the Arcane Trickster class (Ability to cast mage hand) or other similar classes. Sanctum Spell is a metamagic feat -- not a spell -- also, as I mentioned in the other topic, i had actually posted here first.
Hyfigh 05-03-07, 12:51 PM	Your trick works. You can use temporary abilities to obtain access to certain things. I think the FAQ or Q&A to CustServ gave a response for having a temp ability score from a spell qualifying for a feat. That's not really the issue. The issue is actually the cheese factory you've got brewing. I, as a DM, wouldn't allow something like that to work. Most DM's, from my experience, would be hard pressed to allow something like that as well.
Midgard in Ruin 05-14-07, 02:19 PM	Illumian (Chaotic Good) Sorcerer 4/Duskblade 2/Spellsword 1/Abjurant Champion 5/Sacred Exorcist 8 Feats: 1. Extend spell S1. Weapon focus: Greatsword 3. Arcane Disciple: Competition D2. Combat Casting 6. Power attack 9. Arcane strike 12. Persistent spell 15. free 18. free Alternate class features: Sorcerer 1: Stalward Sorcerer (reduces spells known) (CM 36) Sorcerer 1: Spell Shield (replaces familiar) (DS 13-14) Racial Traits: Naenhoon symbol +2 to wisdom, constitution and intelligence checks and skills Divine metamagic (sorta) Persistent Divine Power (obtained through arcane disciple) by means of naenhoon. BAB now is 20. Thanks to martial arcanist (abjurant champion), caster level is 20. Access to 9th level spells (just two though) at 20th level. Has this idea came up yet? If not, do I win?
The Rizz 05-14-07, 03:56 PM	Persistent Divine Power [...] Has this idea came up yet? If not, do I win?The persistent divine power + abjurant champion idea has come up repeatedly. However, this is about actual BAB and CL, not ECL (effective caster level) or magically increased BAB (so it still works in AMF). Besides, that combo allows almost any caster with 5 levels of Abj. Champion to be BAB 20 / CL 20+ for just the cost of a few feats (Arcane Disciple, Persistent Spell, and any of a dozen different ways to lower metamagic costs). This thread is about how to get the highest actual caster level (not just effective), and highest actual BAB (not dependent on spells or anything else that can be taken away).
Goldenbraid 05-14-07, 05:20 PM	I think you can use spells and temporary stuff to qualify for a PrC but as long as you lose the prereqs those class abilities get locked temporarily until you qualify again. As in. having power attack and then getting enfeebled by a ray. You cant use Power Attack until you have Str 13 again. A crude example but I think I read in some kind of DnD FAQ about it.
big bear 05-15-07, 12:10 PM	We are actually jut looking at Gishes for the 1st time, albiet as a cohort. I can see what happens at 20, but is there anything critical that changes if you are only building for 17 levels? For a 17th level character it almost seems like a 16 bab / 14 cl is as good as it gets. We had looked at Fighter/Wizard/Spellsword without Eldritch Knight. Is that decent.
The Rizz 05-15-07, 04:27 PM	We are actually jut looking at Gishes [...] as a cohort. For a 17th level character it almost seems like a 16 bab / 14 cl is as good as it gets. We had looked at Fighter/Wizard/Spellsword without Eldritch Knight. Is that decent.I'm not exactly sure how you're supposed to be getting 16 BAB / 14 CL with those three classes. More like 16/6 or 12/12 ... Also, don't forget the Gish Commandments: Thou Shalt Not Forget Abjurant Champion. Thou Shalt Optimize Caster Level. (Low BAB can be made up for easier than low spells.) For a cohort, you may want to consider using a bard-based gish, since that will give your cohort more options with bardsong and support spells. Try Bard 4 / Fighter 1 / Spellsword 1 / Abj. Champion 3 / {EK or KP} 1 / Sublime Chord 2 / Abj. Champion +2 / {EK or KP} +3 -- you end up with 8th level spells / CL 15 / BAB +15 at 17th level. Also consider substituting a +¾ BAB / +1 CL class for the 4 levels of EK/KP -- I suggest Knight of the Thorn (DLCS) if you're LE, or Sacred Exorcist if good; you also have a bunch of diety-specific options if in FR (Heartwarder being the best for this build).
awaken_D_M_golem 05-20-07, 03:40 PM	For all the machinations to get Arcane to behave like Divine or Psi- gishes, things just got boring. Wyrm Wizard is in Dragon Magic. It's second level class ability lets you put any spell on your list. ---> linky A Wizard 6 / WW 2 can learn Divine Power. I don't have that book but someone posted the relevant text over on CO. BAB +20 / Arcane Caster Level 19. It's that simple now. :D
Think0028 05-20-07, 04:52 PM	For all the machinations to get Arcane to behave like Divine or Psi- gishes, things just got boring. Wyrm Wizard is in Dragon Magic. It's second level class ability lets you put any spell on your list. ---> linky A Wizard 6 / WW 2 can learn Divine Power. I don't have that book but someone posted the relevant text over on CO. BAB +20 / Arcane Caster Level 19. It's that simple now. :D That works most of the time, but you need three things: 1) A DM who won't kneejerk ban it. 2) No Anti-Magic fields. 3) Either many spell slots or some way to persist easily. Hmmm...
The Rizz 05-20-07, 05:39 PM	That works most of the time, but you need three things: 1) A DM who won't kneejerk ban it. 2) No Anti-Magic fields. 3) Either many spell slots or some way to persist easily. Hmmm...Let's also not forget the possibility of Dispel Magic or Disjunction - you can recast, but how many rounds do you want to waste buffing in the middle of combat?
WombleHunter 05-23-07, 11:21 AM	You could Quicken it as an 8th level spell.
DocNessuno 06-17-07, 10:16 AM	Human Rogue 1 Wizard 4 Daggerspell mage 10 Abjurant champion 5 Note: sadly 1st level must be wizard, to be able to take praticed spellcaster (wizard) to qualify for DSM at lvl 5 Feats: praticed spellcaster 1 2 weapon fighting 1 weapon focus 3 combat casting 6 weapon fitnesse 9 Arcane strike 12 Improved 2wf 15 Greater 2wf 18 Caster level: 20 (9th level spell at lvl 20) BAB: 20 (Abjurant champion) 7 attack (8 with haste), each with +9 hit, +9d4 dmg (arcane strike) +4d6 SA very high armor (high dex, +11 from lvl3 mage armor, +9 from lvl1 shield) stats: dex>int>con
mikeloop86 06-18-07, 08:21 PM	BAB: 20 (Abjurant champion) Care to explain how abjurant Champion just "grants" you a BAB of 20? If anything your build has at best a BAB of 17 (I don't remember if Daggerspell Mage grants full BAB or 3/4) And once again, while your have a caster level of 20, your Spellcaster Level (which is the important one determining spells per day/spells known) is only about (if Daggspell Mage grants full casting progression) 19. Anyone care to elaborate on the BAB and Casting progression of a Daggerspell mage? I don't have my books in front of me at the moment.
The Rizz 06-19-07, 02:26 AM	Anyone care to elaborate on the BAB and Casting progression of a Daggerspell mage? I don't have my books in front of me at the moment.¾ BAB progression, and 9/10 spellcasting (no +CL at level 1).
mikeloop86 06-19-07, 01:45 PM	¾ BAB progression, and 9/10 spellcasting (no +CL at level 1). Ah, thank you heartily :) So then DocNessuno, your build actually only come to BAB of 14 and a Spellcaster level of 18. I like the concept however, and I'm sure its easy to overcome the low BAB with the right spells :D
ShadowcatX 06-20-07, 10:12 AM	You don't even need Miracle shenanigans to pull 9/9/9 out. Illumian 1. Cleric 1 --- Iron will 2. Ardent 1 3. Ardent 2 --- Spell focus (Evil) 4. Ardent 3 5. Ardent 4 6. Ur-priest 1 --- Improved sigil (Krau) 7. Psychic theurge 1 8. Psychic theurge 2 9. Psychic theurge 3 --- Practiced manifester (Ardent) 10. Psychic theurge 4 11. Psychic theurge 5 12. Beholder mage 1 --- Practiced spellcaster (Ur-priest) 13. Mystic theurge 1 14. Mystic theurge 2 15. Mystic theurge 3 --- Practiced spellcaster (Beholder mage) 16. Mystic theurge 4 17. Cerebremancer 1 18. Cerebremancer 2 --- [Free feat] 19. Cerebremancer 3 20. Cerebremancer 4 That's 9th level arcane spells, 9th level divine spells and 9th level psionic powers in one build. How are you getting second level divine spells to take psychic theurge? Edit: Never mind.
ShadowcatX 07-07-07, 02:56 PM	Human Rogue 1 Wizard 4 Daggerspell mage 10 Abjurant champion 5 Note: sadly 1st level must be wizard, to be able to take praticed spellcaster (wizard) to qualify for DSM at lvl 5 Feats: praticed spellcaster 1 2 weapon fighting 1 weapon focus 3 combat casting 6 weapon fitnesse 9 Arcane strike 12 Improved 2wf 15 Greater 2wf 18 Caster level: 20 (9th level spell at lvl 20) BAB: 20 (Abjurant champion) 7 attack (8 with haste), each with +9 hit, +9d4 dmg (arcane strike) +4d6 SA very high armor (high dex, +11 from lvl3 mage armor, +9 from lvl1 shield) stats: dex>int>con Alter this with spellthief replacing rogue, and fighter feat variant replacing normal wizard, move all feats that can be moved down 1 (from 6th level and down) down one level and take master spell thief at 6th level. Instead of Wizard 4 take wizard 1 and human paragon 3 because currently you're missing the martial weapon to become an abjurant champion. Even with that hit to your caster level you'll still cast ninth level spells at 20th level, keep the same bab.