Meta Magic - or How does magic work? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Meta Magic - or How does magic work? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Bosh_Vant
03-03-07, 06:21 PM Many times I feel that the standard environments in D & D over look this.

However to me it is a very large basic building block of world building - it can even determine what kinds of magic are possible. What are some of your favorite meta magical systems from either media you own or of your own design. I'll start with two from media.
Bosh_Vant
03-03-07, 06:29 PM The Bending Arts

Source: Avatar: the Last Airbender (Nickolodeon.)

In this asian inspired setting the bending arts are martial arts postures and techniques that allow one to chanel thier chi to manipulate the four classical western elements: Earth, Wind, Water, and Fire. Each element is also assoicated with a season.

Limitations & Effects
All spell components are purely somatic - you must be able to move to use them. All effects are purely physical - bending can not allow you to read peoples minds or enter the spirit world. (However the spirit world does exist and can be reached via meditation.)

It is known that Fire bending is empowered by the sun and therefore is powerless durring a solar eclipse (but it does work at night.) It is known that water bending is empowered by the moon and does not work durring a lunar eclipse. Air and earth bending do not seem to have simar limitations.
Bosh_Vant
03-03-07, 06:46 PM Alchemey

Source: Full Metal Alchemist (Cartoon Network; Adult Swim)

In this setting Alchemey is an archane science which allows you to change the structure and compisitions of material objects including living beings (however work on living beings is considered in poor taste - and forbidden on humans.) The power sources is unknown to most.

Limitations & Effects
All spell components through drawn gliphs (usually circles of some sort.) called arrays - once drawn they must be consciously activated. When the series began only the main charicter could use alchemy without arrays - others were revealed later but i dont want to spoil it for anyone who has not seen it. Alchemey can only be used on material objects, and must follow the law of "equivelent exchange" - an equal ammount of material must go into the array reaction to produce the end result - The tea pot can only be as big as the clay you put in the array - changing somethings form is relatively easy but changing it's composition on an atomic level is requires greater sacrifice for the reaction to occur.

Alchemy can not bring back the dead - after all what is equivelant to a soul? - It can not be used to see the future or past. It can not be used to bridge distances in "mystical ways," it can however make a mundane bridge.

Items created by alchemy are as real and durrable as mundane counterparts.

It can combine aninmals together to make chimera. It can be used to kill by manipulating human chemistry.

Arrays can be worked into clothing or tattoos relatevely harmlessly.

Unballenced exchanges can cause the backlash against the caster - causeing damage and frequently maiming or killing an unprepaired alchemist.

It is not generally known how one channels the energy for the material transformation - or where that energy comes from.
Holy_Beholder
03-25-07, 10:11 PM Spirits, Bartimaues trilogy.

All magic is done by spirits, or by using their magic. You have to draw a pentacle, speak certain words to command spirits, then let them loose. Spirits build up mental abilities as they get more powerful, and are able to find the tiniest faults in orders and make them hard.

There are also punishment spells that can be released on spirits by using their energy. These are used to control spirits. Among them are the Black Tumbler, Indefinate containment, and Punitive Jab.

You can't tell the past or future, and spirits do the magic. Spirits essence(read as constitution) also weakens a little every moment they are kept on the material plane. It drops by 1% per day, and regenerates at 5% per day in the other place. When it drops to 0, the spirit dies.
j0lt
03-26-07, 06:55 AM Source: Shannara series by Terry Brooks

Magic is a natural living element.
People don't "have" magic, they use or control it's power (or try, in some cases)
ExileInParadise
03-26-07, 08:28 AM Personally, I see the answers to questions like this to be places for the GM to have their creative input to the system.

In the case of "how magic works" my rules of thumb are:
Psionic/Extraordinary FX are powered by the mind and body of the wielder.
This is why psionics are point based.

Magic/Spell-Like FX are power from the environment (external to the wielder) that are "channeled" by the thought or ritual of the spellcaster.
This is why they are not point based, but limited by experience level to command them. Forgotten Realms called the natural magic resource "the Weave", and Star Wars calls it "the Force". Divine casters are literally channeling the power of their deity through their mastery of theirt faith.

Supernatural FX are just that... "beyond natural" and as such, unexplainable.
This could be explained as a side effect of creatures from other dimensions/planes bringing or using part of the magical resource from those other realities into the prime material plane... or they are able to use the magical field of the prime material differently because they are outsiders.
Bosh_Vant
04-09-07, 01:33 PM Aside from being good for enhanceing the flavor of a setting, by working this out for your particular campaign ahead of time you can answer questions about when a player tires to use his spells in a particular way.

Player "The rouge trying to get our map looks pretty dirty right, I mean even for midevil times, right?"

GM "Yes, but he is the only one armed in the room and standing right infront of the door."

Player "But he is dirty right, like flea infested dirty?"

GM "Yeah, but I don't see ...."

Player "I use enlarge person on a flea that is drinking his blood right now."

Now the question is - is enlarge person enlarge life form, or enlarge humanoid? Would Thrikeens be affected? How about fine fey. If it does only affect humanoids is that because there is something special about them, or that the spell is just calibrated for them and more research could be done to make an enlarge vermin spell. Can you enlarge part of a person? ("I make the gaurd's feet HUGE, so that his legs are too weak to lift them.") If not why not?

All of these are affected by meta magic because at it's core it is asking what are you doing with reality.
Grimgrin
04-09-07, 08:10 PM Inspired by "Tale of the King's Blades" Series by Dave Duncan

All magic incantations and magical objects are fueled by their "elements". Every pair of elements has an opposite.

These magical elements and their opposites are: (3.5 Spells)

Death (Necromancy Spells) AND Love (Enchantment Spells)

Time (Lawful Spells) AND Chance (Chaotic Spells)

Water (Cold/Water Spells) AND Fire (Fire Spells)

Air (Lightning/Air Spells) AND Earth (Acid/Earth Spells)

All physical objects have a mixture of the above elements in them. If one element or group of elements is concentrated above the others it has a related magical ability.

For example, a "shadow" would be pure death. A zombie would be death and earth. A ghost would be death and air. A ghost ship would be death and water. A mermaid/syren would be love and water.

You need the proper fuel to cast any spell. A death energy is needed for powerfull death spells, water for water spells, and so on. One way to reflect this is to add a bonus or penalty when casting a spell in an elementally charged enviroment. For example casting a "fireball" in a desert would gain a +2 DC to the saving throw. Casting a "fireball" on the ocean would inflict a -2 DC to spell strength.

Examples of a Favorable Enviroment:

Inferno: Fire
Active Volcano: Earth and Fire
Desert: Fire and Air
Building Ashes: Chance and Fire
Forest Ashes: Time and Fire

Battle Field: Death
Cemetery: Death and Earth
Crematory: Death and Fire
Shipwreck: Death and Water
Hospital: Death and Time
Gladiator Arena: Death and Chance

Ocean/Lake: Water
Waterfall: Air and Water
Marsh: Earth and Water
Rapids: Chance and Water
Glacier: Time and Water

Mountain: Earth
Air: Grassland
Casino: Chance
Court Room: Time

And so on...

In d20 game terms, a specialist wizard would specialize in one of these elements (rather than a "school of magic") at the expense of knowledge and skill in the opposed element. Clerics would have to choose two of the EIGHT domains listed above.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Bosh_Vant 03-03-07, 06:21 PM	Many times I feel that the standard environments in D & D over look this. However to me it is a very large basic building block of world building - it can even determine what kinds of magic are possible. What are some of your favorite meta magical systems from either media you own or of your own design. I'll start with two from media.
Bosh_Vant 03-03-07, 06:29 PM	The Bending Arts Source: Avatar: the Last Airbender (Nickolodeon.) In this asian inspired setting the bending arts are martial arts postures and techniques that allow one to chanel thier chi to manipulate the four classical western elements: Earth, Wind, Water, and Fire. Each element is also assoicated with a season. Limitations & Effects All spell components are purely somatic - you must be able to move to use them. All effects are purely physical - bending can not allow you to read peoples minds or enter the spirit world. (However the spirit world does exist and can be reached via meditation.) It is known that Fire bending is empowered by the sun and therefore is powerless durring a solar eclipse (but it does work at night.) It is known that water bending is empowered by the moon and does not work durring a lunar eclipse. Air and earth bending do not seem to have simar limitations.
Bosh_Vant 03-03-07, 06:46 PM	Alchemey Source: Full Metal Alchemist (Cartoon Network; Adult Swim) In this setting Alchemey is an archane science which allows you to change the structure and compisitions of material objects including living beings (however work on living beings is considered in poor taste - and forbidden on humans.) The power sources is unknown to most. Limitations & Effects All spell components through drawn gliphs (usually circles of some sort.) called arrays - once drawn they must be consciously activated. When the series began only the main charicter could use alchemy without arrays - others were revealed later but i dont want to spoil it for anyone who has not seen it. Alchemey can only be used on material objects, and must follow the law of "equivelent exchange" - an equal ammount of material must go into the array reaction to produce the end result - The tea pot can only be as big as the clay you put in the array - changing somethings form is relatively easy but changing it's composition on an atomic level is requires greater sacrifice for the reaction to occur. Alchemy can not bring back the dead - after all what is equivelant to a soul? - It can not be used to see the future or past. It can not be used to bridge distances in "mystical ways," it can however make a mundane bridge. Items created by alchemy are as real and durrable as mundane counterparts. It can combine aninmals together to make chimera. It can be used to kill by manipulating human chemistry. Arrays can be worked into clothing or tattoos relatevely harmlessly. Unballenced exchanges can cause the backlash against the caster - causeing damage and frequently maiming or killing an unprepaired alchemist. It is not generally known how one channels the energy for the material transformation - or where that energy comes from.
Holy_Beholder 03-25-07, 10:11 PM	Spirits, Bartimaues trilogy. All magic is done by spirits, or by using their magic. You have to draw a pentacle, speak certain words to command spirits, then let them loose. Spirits build up mental abilities as they get more powerful, and are able to find the tiniest faults in orders and make them hard. There are also punishment spells that can be released on spirits by using their energy. These are used to control spirits. Among them are the Black Tumbler, Indefinate containment, and Punitive Jab. You can't tell the past or future, and spirits do the magic. Spirits essence(read as constitution) also weakens a little every moment they are kept on the material plane. It drops by 1% per day, and regenerates at 5% per day in the other place. When it drops to 0, the spirit dies.
j0lt 03-26-07, 06:55 AM	Source: Shannara series by Terry Brooks Magic is a natural living element. People don't "have" magic, they use or control it's power (or try, in some cases)
ExileInParadise 03-26-07, 08:28 AM	Personally, I see the answers to questions like this to be places for the GM to have their creative input to the system. In the case of "how magic works" my rules of thumb are: Psionic/Extraordinary FX are powered by the mind and body of the wielder. This is why psionics are point based. Magic/Spell-Like FX are power from the environment (external to the wielder) that are "channeled" by the thought or ritual of the spellcaster. This is why they are not point based, but limited by experience level to command them. Forgotten Realms called the natural magic resource "the Weave", and Star Wars calls it "the Force". Divine casters are literally channeling the power of their deity through their mastery of theirt faith. Supernatural FX are just that... "beyond natural" and as such, unexplainable. This could be explained as a side effect of creatures from other dimensions/planes bringing or using part of the magical resource from those other realities into the prime material plane... or they are able to use the magical field of the prime material differently because they are outsiders.
Bosh_Vant 04-09-07, 01:33 PM	Aside from being good for enhanceing the flavor of a setting, by working this out for your particular campaign ahead of time you can answer questions about when a player tires to use his spells in a particular way. Player "The rouge trying to get our map looks pretty dirty right, I mean even for midevil times, right?" GM "Yes, but he is the only one armed in the room and standing right infront of the door." Player "But he is dirty right, like flea infested dirty?" GM "Yeah, but I don't see ...." Player "I use enlarge person on a flea that is drinking his blood right now." Now the question is - is enlarge person enlarge life form, or enlarge humanoid? Would Thrikeens be affected? How about fine fey. If it does only affect humanoids is that because there is something special about them, or that the spell is just calibrated for them and more research could be done to make an enlarge vermin spell. Can you enlarge part of a person? ("I make the gaurd's feet HUGE, so that his legs are too weak to lift them.") If not why not? All of these are affected by meta magic because at it's core it is asking what are you doing with reality.
Grimgrin 04-09-07, 08:10 PM	Inspired by "Tale of the King's Blades" Series by Dave Duncan All magic incantations and magical objects are fueled by their "elements". Every pair of elements has an opposite. These magical elements and their opposites are: (3.5 Spells) Death (Necromancy Spells) AND Love (Enchantment Spells) Time (Lawful Spells) AND Chance (Chaotic Spells) Water (Cold/Water Spells) AND Fire (Fire Spells) Air (Lightning/Air Spells) AND Earth (Acid/Earth Spells) All physical objects have a mixture of the above elements in them. If one element or group of elements is concentrated above the others it has a related magical ability. For example, a "shadow" would be pure death. A zombie would be death and earth. A ghost would be death and air. A ghost ship would be death and water. A mermaid/syren would be love and water. You need the proper fuel to cast any spell. A death energy is needed for powerfull death spells, water for water spells, and so on. One way to reflect this is to add a bonus or penalty when casting a spell in an elementally charged enviroment. For example casting a "fireball" in a desert would gain a +2 DC to the saving throw. Casting a "fireball" on the ocean would inflict a -2 DC to spell strength. Examples of a Favorable Enviroment: Inferno: Fire Active Volcano: Earth and Fire Desert: Fire and Air Building Ashes: Chance and Fire Forest Ashes: Time and Fire Battle Field: Death Cemetery: Death and Earth Crematory: Death and Fire Shipwreck: Death and Water Hospital: Death and Time Gladiator Arena: Death and Chance Ocean/Lake: Water Waterfall: Air and Water Marsh: Earth and Water Rapids: Chance and Water Glacier: Time and Water Mountain: Earth Air: Grassland Casino: Chance Court Room: Time And so on... In d20 game terms, a specialist wizard would specialize in one of these elements (rather than a "school of magic") at the expense of knowledge and skill in the opposed element. Clerics would have to choose two of the EIGHT domains listed above.