Post/Author/DateTime	Post
teamfireyleader 01-07-08, 12:19 PM	Sorry if something like this has come up before but what is the most damage a level 30 fighter can do in one attack. Rules for fighter: No artifacts. Nothing he couldn't create himself. Only use BoED+BoVD+Core+SRD+EPH+TOB+DMG2+Draconom acon(sp?) I know some of those resources probably won't help but you might find something. This isn't realy new but i'll make it clear, NO HELP
awaken_D_M_golem 01-07-08, 05:04 PM	Leadership and Epic Leadership feats, with a little maintenance on Charisma, should get you a 27th level caster cohort. I guessing you want to remove that option.
BetaSquirrell 01-07-08, 06:41 PM	Level 30 gives you IL 15, enough for Martial Stance into Aura of Chaos. Profit. (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=855878)
CrimsonDeath 01-09-08, 04:21 AM	Level 30 gives you IL 15, enough for Martial Stance into Aura of Chaos. Profit. (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=855878) We don't have Complete Champion or a way to cast healing spells.
Senevri 01-09-08, 12:53 PM	Well, off the top of my head, you can use TWF line to get 9 attacks with haste. Pick Stormguard Warrior + Raging Mongoose + Dancing Mongoose. Now you have dancing 11 hits in your power-up round, for +55 damage to each hit. Since we're looking at damage, let's say you Power Attack for 20 points, to a total of +75 to each hit, with a +5 weapon for a nice even +80.... or that you have at least 20 strength Next round, you use raging + full attack for 13 hits, or 1040 points + 13x weapon damage. ( a couple of d-6es, plus some enchantment, say at least +100-150 points. ) I'm sure someone can top that easy. Maybe a crit-hit wonder + Blood in the Water? That's PHB, ToB, ELH and... 9 feats used + prereqs for Raging&Dancing.
danelsan 01-09-08, 04:22 PM	By fighter you mean fighter class or warrior-type character (Frenzied beserker, for example, can add a lot to a single attack)? Nothing he couldn't create himself means no magic items, or even no weapon if he doesn't have craft skill? those 30 levels may include templates? races with LA? Senevri, I believe multiple attack route is not the best way to achieve the most damage in a single attack(not a round ;) )
Senevri 01-09-08, 09:48 PM	d'oh! I'm presuming Fighter-as-a-class myself... Cuts down on variables, too.
teamfireyleader 01-10-08, 02:00 PM	A fighter as a class. No the haste won't work because he couldn't create or use scroll, and couldn't create a spell containing item (he can't cast spells!).
The_Mad_Linguist 01-10-08, 04:14 PM	Warning: The following is an extremely marginal attempt at getting spellcasting as a fighter. It's so strained it might explode at any moment. You have been warned. Pick up practiced spellcaster at first level. You have caster level 1. With your feat for being a human, select precocious apprentice. IIRC, it requires CL 1 and a 15 in int or charisma. In either case, you now can *cast* a second level spell. You have CL 3 by third level, so pick up craft wondrous item when you can. It might come in handy. Now, I don't think there's any way to get a higher spell than first level as a fighter. So, once you hit epic, take Improved Spell Capacity three times, which requires "Ability to cast spells of the normal maximum spell level in at least one spellcasting class". You now have a fifth level spell slot (and possibly bonus spells), but only know a single second level spell. To fix that, take spell knowledge, which requires "Ability to cast spells of the maximum normal spell level of an arcane spellcasting class.". You gain two spells up to fifth level. Choose them wisely. Greater Invisiblity seems promising. Nobody will have detect invisibility if they're built with the same rules, so it's virtually uncounterable.
Senevri 01-10-08, 07:04 PM	A fighter as a class. No the haste won't work because he couldn't create or use scroll, and couldn't create a spell containing item (he can't cast spells!). What, no equipment allowed? Well, then we're pretty much limited to unarmed fighters, arn't we? The caster trick is intriguing, and I'd gladly allow it myself, just 'cuz it's such a huge feat investment, but Fighter isn't a spellcasting class, RAW.
CrimsonDeath 01-11-08, 08:21 PM	Pick up practiced spellcaster at first level. You have caster level 1. This is about where you lost me. Now, I don't think there's any way to get a higher spell than first level as a fighter. How did you get a 1st level spell? And can it be Cure Light Wounds? What, no equipment allowed? Well, then we're pretty much limited to unarmed fighters, arn't we? No equipment he couldn't create himself. A level 30 Fighter could easily create masterwork weapons and armor, nonmagical alchemical items (like acid flasks), and high-DC poisons.
The_Mad_Linguist 01-11-08, 10:15 PM	This is about where you lost me. How did you get a 1st level spell? And can it be Cure Light Wounds? Practiced Spellcaster gives you a +4 bonus to your caster level, but this bonus can't bring your caster level above your hit dice. The purpose of taking practiced spellcaster is to give you a caster level to make you eligible for precocious apprentice, which requires a caster level of 1 and can only be taken at first level You don't have a first level spell. You have a single second level spell that you need to succeed on a caster level check to cast. Point is, you're able to cast spells at the maximum possible level for the fighter class (which is now a spellcasting class, obviously, since you are a pure fighter who can cast spells. Since fighters normally can't cast spells, and can only obtain spellcasting through precocious apprentice, you're at the maximum), which makes you eligible for the epic feat later on.
Senevri 01-12-08, 09:55 AM	Of course, your spell list is empty, so you need stuff like Oneiromancy or Arcane Disciple or something to fill it... Wouldn't a Dragonwrought Kobold manage to become a spellcasting fighter even before epic? I hear something like that can be done...
BetaSquirrell 01-12-08, 11:05 AM	Yeah, maybe, but as a kobold lose the bonus feat for being a human, and then you never get P.A, because you need to take two feats at level 1 to pull it off. By the way, what class are you advancing with Practiced Spellcaster? If you advance wizard, don't you fail to fulfill the requirements on the epic feat, since it will look at the wizard class you're miming rather than the fighter class you are?
The_Mad_Linguist 01-12-08, 12:10 PM	You're advancing fighter. I believe that practiced spellcaster can be applied to any class, but it's spectacularly useless to apply to fighter under normal circumstances.
BetaSquirrell 01-13-08, 12:24 PM	So Precocious Apprentice actually increases the spellcasting ability of your class, not some weird thing like Hidden Talent? I see, and because our Fighter now has a spell list of one second level spell, he qualifies for the epic cheese. Niiiiiiiiiice...
teamfireyleader 01-13-08, 01:37 PM	Ehem... look at the books i set. No others.
CrimsonDeath 01-13-08, 02:03 PM	I see, and because our Fighter now has a spell list of one second level spell, he qualifies for the epic cheese. Actually, even if Practiced Spellcaster can increase a Fighter's caster level, the Fighter doesn't normally have access to any schools of magic, so no level 2 spell is a valid choice for Precocious Apprentice.
BetaSquirrell 01-13-08, 04:46 PM	Eh, why not just use Practiced Spellcaster: Wizard to get an imaginary CL 4 for wizard, then take Arcane Disciple? IIRC Practiced Spellcaster doesn't have any requirements aside from spellcraft (cc ranks would do it), and Arcane Disciple doesn't have any requirements save CL. Using that we can get nine spells onto the list. Pick a nice domain - perhaps you can even still make the infinite damage loop. Lesse... Able Learner and Practiced Spellcaster from flaws, Arcane Disciple from Human. Precocious Apprentice from level 1, and we should be set to go!
CrimsonDeath 01-13-08, 06:10 PM	Except then you only have one spell slot (level 2), so you can't cast the highest-level spell available. You might be able to use Hexblade and somehow abuse Heighten Spell, but I'm not sure how I'd go about it.
BetaSquirrell 01-13-08, 06:48 PM	Well, yeah, you wouldn't be able to use Improved Spell Capacity. Best I can think of now is to somehow work in an Earth Spell Cheese to ladder your way up. You would have to abuse Sanctum and Earth Spell to get a 4th level spell, then take Extra spell for a Third level spell. Use Sanctum Earth to get a 5th level, and so on until you get a 9th level spell. You would burn almost every feat you have to get a 9th level spell (aside from fighter bonus), but then you could do all sorts of things. (Cough, Gate, Cough) (BTW, in case you can't tell this board's way of optimizing Fighter for 'Single attack damage' is to turn Fighter into Crusader or Wizard) EDIT: Okay, here's how the feat progression might look: 1: Able Learner (shaky), Practiced Spellcaster (weak eyes), Arcane Disciple (Human), Precocious Apprentice (level 1). 3: Earth Sense 6: Heighten Spell 9: Earth Spell 12: Sanctum Spell 15: Extra Spell (3rd) //Might be Extra Slot, not sure 18: Extra Spell (4th) 21: Extra Spell (5th) 24: Extra Spell (6th) 27: Extra Spell (7th) //Note, at this point you can cast a level 9 spell 30: Improved Spell Capacity
The_Mad_Linguist 01-13-08, 09:01 PM	It's highest spell available for the class. So a bard can take it even though he only has a spell progression up to level 6. The other way to optimize the "fighter" is to use templates.
CrimsonDeath 01-14-08, 04:32 AM	It's highest spell available for the class. So a bard can take it even though he only has a spell progression up to level 6. Hexblade spells only go up to level 4, so that might be even easier (or maybe harder, since Bards get cantrips).
The_Mad_Linguist 01-14-08, 11:57 AM	Hexblade spells only go up to level 4, so that might be even easier (or maybe harder, since Bards get cantrips). Telflammar Shadowlord and Bone collector have only three levels of spells! Seems like it would be simple to get the max level spells for that class. I'll keep looking for a class that only goes up to level 2 (since not needing to abuse earth spell is neat.) (http://spelldb.com/showSpell.php?class=158 and http://spelldb.com/showSpell.php?class=164)
BetaSquirrell 01-14-08, 07:56 PM	Hmmm, that frees up all epic slots for Imp. Spell Cap., and we can probably put Epic Spellcasting in there. Able Learner made Spellcraft a class skill (or whatever) at level 1, so no issues there, and if one of the free slots is devoted to Craft Wondrous Item this guy and churn out skill-boosting items--- I think we have a straight Fighter Gish on our hands...
The_Mad_Linguist 01-14-08, 11:52 PM	We might need to split this off. I just realized practiced spellcaster isn't in the books allowed, and it's a nifty trick that could be expanded upon. (I'm unsure as to how the Illumian's sigil CL increase works... perhaps this can also be used to start the trick?)
awaken_D_M_golem 01-16-08, 06:26 PM	Senevri - thanks for the redirect. hmm ... Is your Caster Level "Zero" or "null" ?? Conservatively, an (sp) would confer at least 1 CL, only taking one more feat to pull this off. Throw in an Embrace/Shun the Dark Chaos or two ... And now we have Fighter with Epic Spells. Leadership was already a good idea, for followers DC discount. Fighter has enough HP to do the Hit Point burn DC discount. What other "Spell" casting can a Fighter get ?
NiteCyper 01-27-08, 01:29 AM	You can't add Practised Spellcaster to Fighter. He has no spellcasting class to add it to. The feat tells you to add it to a spellcasting class you possess. I think there's a feat from some FR book that says everyone in the region knows at least fundamental magic but it's SLA-granting. And why should we limit our book list because the OP demands for it?
BetaSquirrell 01-27-08, 04:07 PM	1) We've got a new thread for this. Post it there. 2) We aren't adding P.S. to Fighter anymore...