Multipouncing in Eberron [Archive] - Wizards Community

Multipouncing in Eberron [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
DisposableHero_
07-22-07, 05:36 PM So after a long stint without access I am back on the boards again and looking to put a new spin on some of my old tricks. One in particular has caught my attention today over on the psionics board. I've come up with a decent build that needs some work and there is nothing like TO board power for exploring the limits of a new idea, so here it is, as originally posted here (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=13152733&postcount=10)

Dammit, now I'm motivated.....

Optimize!!

Goal:
Create a deadly Eberron Multipouncer

Phase 1 - Minimize the Trick Requirements
We can't reduce the blade of orien levels at all, thats going to take 10 levels straight up. Sadly this means it won't even come close to the 10th level at which you can start multipouncing in the forgotten realms making this a purely high level trick. We can still make for an interesting combatant before that however, if we play our cards right.

The practical multipounce is as follows:
Hustle -> Dimension Leap (using swift leap) teleporting up to 5 feet per character level and making a full attack
Full Attack with remaining actions

The heavy multipounce using the skeleton of this trick is
Round 1:
Buff Power Linked Hustle Twinned
Refocus

Round 2:
Dimension Leap (standard)
Full Attack
Twin Hustle (swift)
Dimension Leap x5 (5 moves)
Full Attack x5 (dervish like in that you can swap targets when you finish them off and cover a fair bit of ground between)

so to accomplish that we need the following:
Link Power
Twin Power
Least Dragonmark (Mark of Passage - Dimension Leap)
Lesser Dragonmark (Mark of Passage - Dimension Door)
Psicrystal Affinity
Psicrystal Containment
Metapower (Hustle/Twin Power) - to help keep our PP costs in check and allow a more powerful initial buff
Practiced Manifester - more powerful initial buff, fewer entry levels to get Orien's Wrath at lower levels

A feat list that long demands psychic warrior (and since we're going to be full attacking anyway...)

so here is the build:

lvl class BAB Abilities
1 PsyWar +0 Psicrystal Affinity (PsyWar Bonus), Least Dragonmark (Mark of Passage - Dimension Leap) Practiced Manifester (Human Bonus)
2 PsyWar +1 Psycrystal Containment (PsyWar Bonus)
3 PsyWar +2 Psionic Meditation
4 PsyWar +3
5 PsyWar +3 Link Power (PsyWar Bonus)
6 PsyWar +4 Lesser Dragonmark (Mark of Passage - Dimension Door)
7 BoOrien +5 Hier's Mark, Improved Dimension Leap
8 BoOrien +6 Swift Leap
9 BoOrien +7 Korran's Strength, Twin Power
10 BoOrien +8 Orien's Grasp
11 BoOrien +9 Olladra's Twist
12 BoOrien +10 Dimensional Push, Open Feat
13 BoOrien +11 Orien's Wrath
14 BoOrien +12 Shadow Shift
15 BoOrien +13 Orien's Cloak, Metapower (Hustle - Twin Power)
16 BoOrien +14 Orien's Fury
17 PsyWar +15
18 PsyWar +16 Open Feat, Open Feat (PsyWar Bonus)
19 PsyWar +16
20 PsyWar +17

Variants
Mechanically, you gain a lot for this build by being Kalashtar, but it takes flaws and a rather outlandish backstory to accomplish, the benefits however, are immense:

Take 2 flaws at first level, 1 to replace the human bonus feat, the other to gain Human Heritage to qualify for Dragonmarks (requires one kalashtar and one Orien parent, which given the abberant mark screening processes is highly unlikely, and means the character is not going to have many friends among his house, its not completely unthinkable though)

The benefit is that you can swap one PsyWar level for a Monk level, take Monastic Training (PsyWar) instead of Stunning Fist, and with open feats in the build take Talashantora (or however you spell it) for Psychic Warrior and Sun School to get 10th level monk unarmed strikes and flurry of blows, as well as an extra attack every time you teleport, which can make good combat use of your excess mobility before hitting Orien's Fury at 16th. As it stands you could take a Monk level as another race but you gain less from the splash and it would be almost exclusively for Sun School.

Given the premise above the following fairly obvious material restrictions apply:

Only 3.5 WotC sources are allowed.
Any campaign setting specific material must be from Eberron.

I think the base build is about as good as it will get because its the fastest way possible to the best of my knowledge to get Orien's Fury which is the central ability. Sadly that restricts it to 16th level (due to the 9 skill ranks requirement of Lesser Dragonmarks for entry into Blade of Orien) but it needs to have some details filled in, namely:

Can we fit more than 5 full attacks into a single round and how (the post above erroneously mentions 6 but Orien's Fury requires you to use Dimension Leap as a move action to get a full attack)
How many times per day can we do either the standard multipounce or the nova pounce? Presently the build can use the Dragonmark Dimension Leap 7 times per day, but both Swift Leap and Orien's Fury will function with any casting of Dimension Leap so how can we get more?
What can we do to optimize the character's full attack? Where to put those open feats? What Powers to chose? Are there better class combinations for this?
Are there options we haven't considered yet? Should he used melee or ranged weapons (A not so minor difference between Orien's Fury and Shadow Pounce is that Orien's Fury does not require the full attack to be made with a melee weapon)

So there you have it. Any ideas?

Revised Build
lvl class BAB Abilities
1 PsyWar +0 Psicrystal Affinity (PsyWar Bonus), Least Dragonmark (Mark of Passage - Dimension Leap) Practiced Manifester (Human Bonus)
2 PsyWar +1 Psycrystal Containment (PsyWar Bonus)
3 PsyWar +2 Psionic Meditation
4 PsyWar +3
5 Monk +3 Improved Unarmed Strike, Monastic Training (Psychic Warrior), Flurry of Blows
6 PsyWar +3 Lesser Dragonmark (Mark of Passage - Dimension Door), Link Power (PsyWar Bonus)
7 BoOrien +4 Hier's Mark, Improved Dimension Leap
8 BoOrien +5 Swift Leap
9 BoOrien +6 Korran's Strength, Twin Power
10 BoOrien +7 Orien's Grasp
11 BoOrien +8 Olladra's Twist
12 BoOrien +9 Dimensional Push, Talashatora (PsyWar)
13 BoOrien +10 Orien's Wrath
14 BoOrien +11 Shadow Shift
15 BoOrien +12 Orien's Cloak, Metapower (Hustle - Twin Power)
16 BoOrien +13 Orien's Fury
17 PsyWar +14
18 PsyWar +15 Sun School
19 PsyWar +15 Open Feat (PsyWar Bonus)
20 PsyWar +16

It may be worth more in the end to change one more PsyWar level for a Monk level, my gut says the manifesting is worth more, but you're a half caster at best already and Evasion and Combat Refexes and +1 to all saves seems like it is worth considering.
Elephant Jack
07-22-07, 06:15 PM Hi DH_!

I just dug out my thread 'bout the blade of orien, you'll find it >here (http://boards1.wizards.com/wotc_archive/index.php/t-751748)<

I'm not sure how to get more then 5 full attacks per round, but I'll think about it. It's nice that a class like blade of orien finally gets some attention by the COBoards again.

EJ
TheDragonmaster
08-03-07, 12:08 PM Where can you find Talashantora, and what does it do?
DisposableHero_
08-03-07, 04:33 PM Where can you find Talashantora, and what does it do?Secrets of Sarlona, it requires you to be Kalashtar and have Monastic Training for a psionic manifesting class. It allows you to stack levels in that class with monk levels for Unarmed Damage and Flurry of Blows (and possibly speed, I don't recall).
RadicalTaoist
08-03-07, 07:54 PM Tashalatora does *not* require being a Kalashtar. You stack the levels for Unarmed Damage, Flurry of Blows Progression, and Monk AC bonus.
DisposableHero_
08-03-07, 07:57 PM Tashalatora does *not* require being a Kalashtar.Say what!?!:blink:
RadicalTaoist
08-03-07, 08:00 PM I don't know about your copy of SoS, but mine doesn't say Kalashtar in the Tashalatora prereqs.
DisposableHero_
08-03-07, 08:17 PM revised the build for sun school and Talashatora
TheDragonmaster
08-05-07, 01:30 AM I think the base build is about as good as it will get because its the fastest way possible to the best of my knowledge to get Orien's Fury which is the central ability. Sadly that restricts it to 16th level (due to the 9 skill ranks requirement of Lesser Dragonmarks for entry into Blade of Orien)......
Aren't there a feat in Cityscape that allows +1 max skill ranks (now when you are discussing flaws already...)? I don't have it with me now, is for one or a couple of skills?
DisposableHero_
08-06-07, 10:18 AM Aren't there a feat in Cityscape that allows +1 max skill ranks (now when you are discussing flaws already...)? I don't have it with me now, is for one or a couple of skills?I have never looked at cityscape actually, can someone confirm or deny this?
Commx
08-07-07, 02:13 PM The Favored and Primary Contact Feats (One is a prerequisite for the other, I forgot which way around) allow you to have 1 rank too much in one skill for one level (the level at which you take the feat). I'm not sure wether it would be of much use here, as you would need to get a Feat at Lvl5 for this to work out.
TheDragonmaster
08-08-07, 04:04 AM Ok then, ignore the above idea... just overheard it at some early-qualification thread...

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
DisposableHero_ 07-22-07, 05:36 PM	So after a long stint without access I am back on the boards again and looking to put a new spin on some of my old tricks. One in particular has caught my attention today over on the psionics board. I've come up with a decent build that needs some work and there is nothing like TO board power for exploring the limits of a new idea, so here it is, as originally posted here (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=13152733&postcount=10) Dammit, now I'm motivated..... Optimize!! Goal: Create a deadly Eberron Multipouncer Phase 1 - Minimize the Trick Requirements We can't reduce the blade of orien levels at all, thats going to take 10 levels straight up. Sadly this means it won't even come close to the 10th level at which you can start multipouncing in the forgotten realms making this a purely high level trick. We can still make for an interesting combatant before that however, if we play our cards right. The practical multipounce is as follows: Hustle -> Dimension Leap (using swift leap) teleporting up to 5 feet per character level and making a full attack Full Attack with remaining actions The heavy multipounce using the skeleton of this trick is Round 1: Buff Power Linked Hustle Twinned Refocus Round 2: Dimension Leap (standard) Full Attack Twin Hustle (swift) Dimension Leap x5 (5 moves) Full Attack x5 (dervish like in that you can swap targets when you finish them off and cover a fair bit of ground between) so to accomplish that we need the following: Link Power Twin Power Least Dragonmark (Mark of Passage - Dimension Leap) Lesser Dragonmark (Mark of Passage - Dimension Door) Psicrystal Affinity Psicrystal Containment Metapower (Hustle/Twin Power) - to help keep our PP costs in check and allow a more powerful initial buff Practiced Manifester - more powerful initial buff, fewer entry levels to get Orien's Wrath at lower levels A feat list that long demands psychic warrior (and since we're going to be full attacking anyway...) so here is the build: lvl class BAB Abilities 1 PsyWar +0 Psicrystal Affinity (PsyWar Bonus), Least Dragonmark (Mark of Passage - Dimension Leap) Practiced Manifester (Human Bonus) 2 PsyWar +1 Psycrystal Containment (PsyWar Bonus) 3 PsyWar +2 Psionic Meditation 4 PsyWar +3 5 PsyWar +3 Link Power (PsyWar Bonus) 6 PsyWar +4 Lesser Dragonmark (Mark of Passage - Dimension Door) 7 BoOrien +5 Hier's Mark, Improved Dimension Leap 8 BoOrien +6 Swift Leap 9 BoOrien +7 Korran's Strength, Twin Power 10 BoOrien +8 Orien's Grasp 11 BoOrien +9 Olladra's Twist 12 BoOrien +10 Dimensional Push, Open Feat 13 BoOrien +11 Orien's Wrath 14 BoOrien +12 Shadow Shift 15 BoOrien +13 Orien's Cloak, Metapower (Hustle - Twin Power) 16 BoOrien +14 Orien's Fury 17 PsyWar +15 18 PsyWar +16 Open Feat, Open Feat (PsyWar Bonus) 19 PsyWar +16 20 PsyWar +17 Variants Mechanically, you gain a lot for this build by being Kalashtar, but it takes flaws and a rather outlandish backstory to accomplish, the benefits however, are immense: Take 2 flaws at first level, 1 to replace the human bonus feat, the other to gain Human Heritage to qualify for Dragonmarks (requires one kalashtar and one Orien parent, which given the abberant mark screening processes is highly unlikely, and means the character is not going to have many friends among his house, its not completely unthinkable though) The benefit is that you can swap one PsyWar level for a Monk level, take Monastic Training (PsyWar) instead of Stunning Fist, and with open feats in the build take Talashantora (or however you spell it) for Psychic Warrior and Sun School to get 10th level monk unarmed strikes and flurry of blows, as well as an extra attack every time you teleport, which can make good combat use of your excess mobility before hitting Orien's Fury at 16th. As it stands you could take a Monk level as another race but you gain less from the splash and it would be almost exclusively for Sun School. Given the premise above the following fairly obvious material restrictions apply: Only 3.5 WotC sources are allowed. Any campaign setting specific material must be from Eberron. I think the base build is about as good as it will get because its the fastest way possible to the best of my knowledge to get Orien's Fury which is the central ability. Sadly that restricts it to 16th level (due to the 9 skill ranks requirement of Lesser Dragonmarks for entry into Blade of Orien) but it needs to have some details filled in, namely: Can we fit more than 5 full attacks into a single round and how (the post above erroneously mentions 6 but Orien's Fury requires you to use Dimension Leap as a move action to get a full attack) How many times per day can we do either the standard multipounce or the nova pounce? Presently the build can use the Dragonmark Dimension Leap 7 times per day, but both Swift Leap and Orien's Fury will function with any casting of Dimension Leap so how can we get more? What can we do to optimize the character's full attack? Where to put those open feats? What Powers to chose? Are there better class combinations for this? Are there options we haven't considered yet? Should he used melee or ranged weapons (A not so minor difference between Orien's Fury and Shadow Pounce is that Orien's Fury does not require the full attack to be made with a melee weapon) So there you have it. Any ideas? Revised Build lvl class BAB Abilities 1 PsyWar +0 Psicrystal Affinity (PsyWar Bonus), Least Dragonmark (Mark of Passage - Dimension Leap) Practiced Manifester (Human Bonus) 2 PsyWar +1 Psycrystal Containment (PsyWar Bonus) 3 PsyWar +2 Psionic Meditation 4 PsyWar +3 5 Monk +3 Improved Unarmed Strike, Monastic Training (Psychic Warrior), Flurry of Blows 6 PsyWar +3 Lesser Dragonmark (Mark of Passage - Dimension Door), Link Power (PsyWar Bonus) 7 BoOrien +4 Hier's Mark, Improved Dimension Leap 8 BoOrien +5 Swift Leap 9 BoOrien +6 Korran's Strength, Twin Power 10 BoOrien +7 Orien's Grasp 11 BoOrien +8 Olladra's Twist 12 BoOrien +9 Dimensional Push, Talashatora (PsyWar) 13 BoOrien +10 Orien's Wrath 14 BoOrien +11 Shadow Shift 15 BoOrien +12 Orien's Cloak, Metapower (Hustle - Twin Power) 16 BoOrien +13 Orien's Fury 17 PsyWar +14 18 PsyWar +15 Sun School 19 PsyWar +15 Open Feat (PsyWar Bonus) 20 PsyWar +16 It may be worth more in the end to change one more PsyWar level for a Monk level, my gut says the manifesting is worth more, but you're a half caster at best already and Evasion and Combat Refexes and +1 to all saves seems like it is worth considering.
Elephant Jack 07-22-07, 06:15 PM	Hi DH_! I just dug out my thread 'bout the blade of orien, you'll find it >here (http://boards1.wizards.com/wotc_archive/index.php/t-751748)< I'm not sure how to get more then 5 full attacks per round, but I'll think about it. It's nice that a class like blade of orien finally gets some attention by the COBoards again. EJ
TheDragonmaster 08-03-07, 12:08 PM	Where can you find Talashantora, and what does it do?
DisposableHero_ 08-03-07, 04:33 PM	Where can you find Talashantora, and what does it do?Secrets of Sarlona, it requires you to be Kalashtar and have Monastic Training for a psionic manifesting class. It allows you to stack levels in that class with monk levels for Unarmed Damage and Flurry of Blows (and possibly speed, I don't recall).
RadicalTaoist 08-03-07, 07:54 PM	Tashalatora does not require being a Kalashtar. You stack the levels for Unarmed Damage, Flurry of Blows Progression, and Monk AC bonus.
DisposableHero_ 08-03-07, 07:57 PM	Tashalatora does not require being a Kalashtar.Say what!?!:blink:
RadicalTaoist 08-03-07, 08:00 PM	I don't know about your copy of SoS, but mine doesn't say Kalashtar in the Tashalatora prereqs.
DisposableHero_ 08-03-07, 08:17 PM	revised the build for sun school and Talashatora
TheDragonmaster 08-05-07, 01:30 AM	I think the base build is about as good as it will get because its the fastest way possible to the best of my knowledge to get Orien's Fury which is the central ability. Sadly that restricts it to 16th level (due to the 9 skill ranks requirement of Lesser Dragonmarks for entry into Blade of Orien)...... Aren't there a feat in Cityscape that allows +1 max skill ranks (now when you are discussing flaws already...)? I don't have it with me now, is for one or a couple of skills?
DisposableHero_ 08-06-07, 10:18 AM	Aren't there a feat in Cityscape that allows +1 max skill ranks (now when you are discussing flaws already...)? I don't have it with me now, is for one or a couple of skills?I have never looked at cityscape actually, can someone confirm or deny this?
Commx 08-07-07, 02:13 PM	The Favored and Primary Contact Feats (One is a prerequisite for the other, I forgot which way around) allow you to have 1 rank too much in one skill for one level (the level at which you take the feat). I'm not sure wether it would be of much use here, as you would need to get a Feat at Lvl5 for this to work out.
TheDragonmaster 08-08-07, 04:04 AM	Ok then, ignore the above idea... just overheard it at some early-qualification thread...