Nano-Diplomancy [Archive] - Wizards Community

Nano-Diplomancy [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Callix
07-09-07, 08:45 PM Now this isn't using the true Nanobots idea, but I had a look at This record build (http://boards1.wizards.com/wotc_archive/index.php/t-371519) and thought a bit. A 20th level character has 160 followers. We can use that. Aid Another! Make them 160 kenku experts with Diplomacy maxed, and they will all make a DC 10 check easily. That adds 480 to your diplomacy modifier, pushing it up to +607. And then there's the cohort's followers. Oh, the diplomacy! Someone tell me if I've made a world record or not. Please?
Astron the Wizard
07-11-07, 03:19 PM I believe you have. Well done. :D I fail to see what the difference is however. Once you can get them from hostile to fanatic, that's as good as you can get it, right? What's the point of increasing it?
Callix
07-11-07, 06:04 PM Optimization. I actually managed to exceed the earlier record with bard 20 without really trying. I didn't even use half-elf. And the added bonuses from fanatic lets you face massive circumstance penalties, like not being able to speak the same language (practically impossible, -20), and anything else that might make diplomacy harder, like having already attacked without provocation and being beaten down and captured. And, of course, the Hilking Hurler damage record does billions of d6's, but they keep thinking of new ways to do more damage. You could probably destroy a planet with that much damage. But we keep pushing the limits of the system.
NiteCyper
07-20-07, 11:17 PM They can't all fill your space. Think it through. Besides, nanobots break almost every skill check record save UMD. It's been well known for a while, calm yourself. All skill check records are to be assumed without Pun-Pun and other infinite loops.
Callix
07-22-07, 08:10 AM They can't all fill your space. Think it through. Besides, nanobots break almost every skill check record save UMD. It's been well known for a while, calm yourself. All skill check records are to be assumed without Pun-Pun and other infinite loops.

Three problems:
1. Diplomacy doesn't require you to share a space. They just need to be within speaking distance, because they can help without touching.

2. This is not nanobots. It is clever application of the Leadership feat, one commonly used in CO to gain abilities one ECL20 cannot have. Usually, this means cohorts with PC class levels. In my case, it uses followers. And nanobots couldn't do this anyway. They're unintelligent, (INT --) and so cannot speak. As they cannot speak, they cannot make Diplomacy checks, or if they could, even a programmer couldn't guarantee success.

3. This is by no means infinite. It is the simple application of the Leadership feat. I did not propose followers with Leadership. And even so, cohorts with Leadership give diminishing returns. Eventually, one of the cohorts will be below 6 HD. At this point, the loop breaks. I don't even need the loop. The main character's followers alone more than double the diplomacy bonus of the previous record I could find.

Now, 160 followers take up 160 squares, meaning a 10x16 square area for simplicity's sake. That's a 50x80 ft rectangle. Maximal distance from one side to the other is sqrt(2500 + 6400) = sqrt(8900) = 94.33
Roughly 95 ft. Listen DC to understand a conversation is 10, +1 per 10ft. So the above Kenku, with 4 ranks in Listen, can be involved in a conversation that is less than 50ft away, +10ft per rank or point of Wis bonus. So only one relay is necessary across the entire group. They can discuss things, and so may be diplomatic. Anyone want another slice of cheese?
psly4mne
07-22-07, 12:51 PM Um... yeah. This may not be literally "nanobots," but it has been well known for a long time that having lots of people Aid Another is an easy way to break all skill records. Therefore, it is not considered for skill records.
There are even better ways. Off the top of my head:
Sadism + a way to survive (think Delay Death) + lots of damage (think Hulking Hurler or Nasty Gentlemen)
Staff of Improvisation + UMD (Item Alteration optional).

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Callix 07-09-07, 08:45 PM	Now this isn't using the true Nanobots idea, but I had a look at This record build (http://boards1.wizards.com/wotc_archive/index.php/t-371519) and thought a bit. A 20th level character has 160 followers. We can use that. Aid Another! Make them 160 kenku experts with Diplomacy maxed, and they will all make a DC 10 check easily. That adds 480 to your diplomacy modifier, pushing it up to +607. And then there's the cohort's followers. Oh, the diplomacy! Someone tell me if I've made a world record or not. Please?
Astron the Wizard 07-11-07, 03:19 PM	I believe you have. Well done. :D I fail to see what the difference is however. Once you can get them from hostile to fanatic, that's as good as you can get it, right? What's the point of increasing it?
Callix 07-11-07, 06:04 PM	Optimization. I actually managed to exceed the earlier record with bard 20 without really trying. I didn't even use half-elf. And the added bonuses from fanatic lets you face massive circumstance penalties, like not being able to speak the same language (practically impossible, -20), and anything else that might make diplomacy harder, like having already attacked without provocation and being beaten down and captured. And, of course, the Hilking Hurler damage record does billions of d6's, but they keep thinking of new ways to do more damage. You could probably destroy a planet with that much damage. But we keep pushing the limits of the system.
NiteCyper 07-20-07, 11:17 PM	They can't all fill your space. Think it through. Besides, nanobots break almost every skill check record save UMD. It's been well known for a while, calm yourself. All skill check records are to be assumed without Pun-Pun and other infinite loops.
Callix 07-22-07, 08:10 AM	They can't all fill your space. Think it through. Besides, nanobots break almost every skill check record save UMD. It's been well known for a while, calm yourself. All skill check records are to be assumed without Pun-Pun and other infinite loops. Three problems: 1. Diplomacy doesn't require you to share a space. They just need to be within speaking distance, because they can help without touching. 2. This is not nanobots. It is clever application of the Leadership feat, one commonly used in CO to gain abilities one ECL20 cannot have. Usually, this means cohorts with PC class levels. In my case, it uses followers. And nanobots couldn't do this anyway. They're unintelligent, (INT --) and so cannot speak. As they cannot speak, they cannot make Diplomacy checks, or if they could, even a programmer couldn't guarantee success. 3. This is by no means infinite. It is the simple application of the Leadership feat. I did not propose followers with Leadership. And even so, cohorts with Leadership give diminishing returns. Eventually, one of the cohorts will be below 6 HD. At this point, the loop breaks. I don't even need the loop. The main character's followers alone more than double the diplomacy bonus of the previous record I could find. Now, 160 followers take up 160 squares, meaning a 10x16 square area for simplicity's sake. That's a 50x80 ft rectangle. Maximal distance from one side to the other is sqrt(2500 + 6400) = sqrt(8900) = 94.33 Roughly 95 ft. Listen DC to understand a conversation is 10, +1 per 10ft. So the above Kenku, with 4 ranks in Listen, can be involved in a conversation that is less than 50ft away, +10ft per rank or point of Wis bonus. So only one relay is necessary across the entire group. They can discuss things, and so may be diplomatic. Anyone want another slice of cheese?
psly4mne 07-22-07, 12:51 PM	Um... yeah. This may not be literally "nanobots," but it has been well known for a long time that having lots of people Aid Another is an easy way to break all skill records. Therefore, it is not considered for skill records. There are even better ways. Off the top of my head: Sadism + a way to survive (think Delay Death) + lots of damage (think Hulking Hurler or Nasty Gentlemen) Staff of Improvisation + UMD (Item Alteration optional).