Not so much CharOp as MonOp... [Archive] - Wizards Community

Not so much CharOp as MonOp... [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
smeagol_lied
11-25-07, 04:45 PM And sorry if this has been suggested before, but I have a monster that is immune to damage. There are a couple of ways to do this.

1st, you will need a monster with regeneration. The tarrasque is the best, because nothing bypasses his regen. A troll could work, but you'd need to make him immune to fire (easy) and acid (less so). Any damage of any kind the tarrasque/troll now takes is nonlethal.

2nd, you will need a template to make him undead. This is because undead cannot take nonlethal damage. He will retain his regeneration quality, so he will take no damage. This is easier with the troll, as a lot of templates can be stuck onto giants, but these are my favourites:

1) Gravetouched Ghoul Tarrasque.

As a magical beast, Big T normally wouldn't be able to become a gravetouched ghoul, however Doresain, the king of ghouls, has the power to apply the gravetouched ghoul template to creatures which are normally not applicable to it. Replace Big T's six or so toughness feats with Improved Turn Resistance, from Libris Mortis, and you now have an unstoppable monstrosity which needs about 74 turning damage to flee.

2) Ghost Brute Tarrasque

As above, but it's a ghost. It's just cool.
Aleolus
11-25-07, 04:57 PM See, that's all well and good in theory, but it has one problem with it. In order to have the Regeration ability, the creature has to have a Con score. Undead have no Con score, so the moment they gain the Undead template, they loose their regeration quality. Good try, though.
The_Mad_Linguist
11-26-07, 04:32 AM Also, trollbane enchantment prevents regeneration from the wounds inflicted by the weapon.
smeagol_lied
11-26-07, 02:55 PM See, that's all well and good in theory, but it has one problem with it. In order to have the Regeration ability, the creature has to have a Con score. Undead have no Con score, so the moment they gain the Undead template, they loose their regeration quality. Good try, though.
Where does it say this?
Aleolus
11-26-07, 03:36 PM Where does it say this?

Monster Manual, page 314, under the Regeneration listing, very last sentance.

A creature must have a Constitution score to have the regeneration ability.
smeagol_lied
11-26-07, 04:01 PM Poo. This is what threw me: http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/fc/20051209a
PhaedrusXY
11-26-07, 05:52 PM That is an old article, and was either a mistake or was written before this restriction was in place. Also, there are a few specific undead which bypass the restriction, like Atropals.
Tordak
11-29-07, 09:31 AM Here's my unkillable monster. Their is no need to discuss about the details, as you can find many ways to make it work/foil it, only the result is important. I just want to get it out.

You need an Illithild Savant (PrC, Savage Species). Thanks to its class feature, he will be able to recall ability of previously eaten brains. First you need to eat a WuJen's brain to get the spell Giant Size (or form or shape, not sure the name, the one where you get really big) thanks to his recall class feature ability; make sure to find the right WuJen. You'll probably need to use a wish, so get a ring of 3 wishes, but that's no so important. Then you'll nedd to extract 2 brains : one is the brain of the All Mighty Tarrasque (this is where I don't want to start a debate about how to do it), the other of a Keeper (Fiend Folio). The keeper is an outsider with a special quality called 'Immunities'; even if he is an outsider, and has a constitution score, that single extraordinary ability grants him all the immunity of the construct type (but he's not a construct, so you can extract his brain). Now you need to recall the tarrasque regeneration (which is unbelievable) and the immunities abilites through your 'recall ability' class ability. With both these ability, which include the all important immunity to non-lethal damage, this creature will be pretty much impossible to injure.

Of course you can say 'Big T will regenerate from his brain and it will kill the savant blah blah...' or 'the keeper's immunities extend to brain extaction' or other interpretation to let it not happen in your games. You can even say 'you can transport it in the middle of nowhere blah blah...' (it won't be easy, check it out), but he'll be back...

There are many others, more simple, with both regeneration and immunity to non-lethal, even accessible to non-epic player characters, but there not as invulnerable as the Illithild savant (many are available with Eberron campaing setting, and a few with general rules).
Aleolus
11-29-07, 12:40 PM ...Well crud. I just found out from a friend that an Undead Tarrasque could work. If you can find a way to apply undead as a subtype, not an actual type, then you get to keep your Con score, while still getting all the benefits of being undead. That hardly seems fair. :hoppingma
That's apparently how a friend of mine got a 75th level Wizard who's immune to damage. He's got the Tarrasques Regeneration (not that high, though), plus he's got Undead as a subtype, so he's still got a Con score, but is immune to nonlethal damage. :banghead:
Tordak
11-29-07, 01:19 PM I'm curious as to how you can get the undead template (arcording to the regular rules, not house rules) as a subtype, and if the said template would grant all the undead immunity. I know of two classes that grants similar benefice (while keeping you constitution score), the bone knight from Eberron and the Pale Master from Libris Mortis (there might be more, I just don't know them), but haven't seen the type-turned-subtype ... type!
Aleolus
11-29-07, 01:47 PM He's not right next to me, so I can't ask him to explain it, but I will ask him to sign up here and get on so he can explain how that all works next time I see him.
CrimsonDeath
11-29-07, 08:24 PM The only way I know of to get a type turned into a subtype is with the Augmented Subtype, which you get when a template changes your type. I don't think you can Augmented Undead, though, because it trumps all the other types except Construct. So, you'd need a template that makes you a Construct, and can be applied to Undead. And you still wouldn't have a Constitution score unless that template also gives you the Living Construct subtype.

Hmm... Necropolitan Renegade Mastermaker? But what would your Constitution score be?
Senevri
12-04-07, 07:57 AM Illithid savant is the correct idea.

Step 1: Annoy gods sufficiently, sos they'll send an Aleax after you.
Step 2: Extract brain, become immune to all but yourself (Singular Enemy.)
Omen_of_Peace
12-08-07, 09:24 AM Step 1: Annoy gods sufficiently, sos they'll send an Aleax after you.
Step 2: Extract brain, become immune to all but yourself (Singular Enemy.)

Aleax are constructs.

Cursed Blade (SC) is a nice spell to bypass immunities - though it wouldn't work against the blanket immunity of an aleax. And/or Graymantle (SC) and/or Trollbane.
bomaz
12-13-07, 05:25 PM there is some sort f undead you can only kill by chopping of its head I believe, add the template to the Lumi (with a floating head) and you should be good. I might not be right, havent checked up the facts recently
The_Inside_Man
12-22-07, 10:33 PM Umm if you consider a kobold an option, than I think I have an idea...We all know where this path leads...
epifreak
12-29-07, 02:12 PM For another noteable entry in the damage immune competition, consider the voidmind wartroll (or if you don't like being an illithid slave, 1/2 black dragon). Get your hands on a shield guardian (the construct that takes damage from you until destroyed. Since you only take NL damage, and constructs are immune, happy day). Now all you have to do is worry about save-or-die spells. Your fort save is nice, but not astronomical, and your will save sucks. Any ideas?
Panserbjorn_X
01-03-08, 07:09 PM It's too bad that the 'Curst' template got nerfed in 3.5 rules.

Regeneration became fast Healing. :weep:

This is another of the examples of an Undead with regeneration.

~PX~
BetaSquirrell
01-13-08, 07:10 PM What every happened to the MultiHeaded Lumi? That was a nice one, immune to everything except Disintigration IIRC.
Senevri
01-19-08, 08:29 AM Kung fu Dragons! I wanna see what happens when you add one- two swordsage levels for an Ancient/Very Old Gold Dragon! ^_^

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
smeagol_lied 11-25-07, 04:45 PM	And sorry if this has been suggested before, but I have a monster that is immune to damage. There are a couple of ways to do this. 1st, you will need a monster with regeneration. The tarrasque is the best, because nothing bypasses his regen. A troll could work, but you'd need to make him immune to fire (easy) and acid (less so). Any damage of any kind the tarrasque/troll now takes is nonlethal. 2nd, you will need a template to make him undead. This is because undead cannot take nonlethal damage. He will retain his regeneration quality, so he will take no damage. This is easier with the troll, as a lot of templates can be stuck onto giants, but these are my favourites: 1) Gravetouched Ghoul Tarrasque. As a magical beast, Big T normally wouldn't be able to become a gravetouched ghoul, however Doresain, the king of ghouls, has the power to apply the gravetouched ghoul template to creatures which are normally not applicable to it. Replace Big T's six or so toughness feats with Improved Turn Resistance, from Libris Mortis, and you now have an unstoppable monstrosity which needs about 74 turning damage to flee. 2) Ghost Brute Tarrasque As above, but it's a ghost. It's just cool.
Aleolus 11-25-07, 04:57 PM	See, that's all well and good in theory, but it has one problem with it. In order to have the Regeration ability, the creature has to have a Con score. Undead have no Con score, so the moment they gain the Undead template, they loose their regeration quality. Good try, though.
The_Mad_Linguist 11-26-07, 04:32 AM	Also, trollbane enchantment prevents regeneration from the wounds inflicted by the weapon.
smeagol_lied 11-26-07, 02:55 PM	See, that's all well and good in theory, but it has one problem with it. In order to have the Regeration ability, the creature has to have a Con score. Undead have no Con score, so the moment they gain the Undead template, they loose their regeration quality. Good try, though. Where does it say this?
Aleolus 11-26-07, 03:36 PM	Where does it say this? Monster Manual, page 314, under the Regeneration listing, very last sentance. A creature must have a Constitution score to have the regeneration ability.
smeagol_lied 11-26-07, 04:01 PM	Poo. This is what threw me: http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/fc/20051209a
PhaedrusXY 11-26-07, 05:52 PM	That is an old article, and was either a mistake or was written before this restriction was in place. Also, there are a few specific undead which bypass the restriction, like Atropals.
Tordak 11-29-07, 09:31 AM	Here's my unkillable monster. Their is no need to discuss about the details, as you can find many ways to make it work/foil it, only the result is important. I just want to get it out. You need an Illithild Savant (PrC, Savage Species). Thanks to its class feature, he will be able to recall ability of previously eaten brains. First you need to eat a WuJen's brain to get the spell Giant Size (or form or shape, not sure the name, the one where you get really big) thanks to his recall class feature ability; make sure to find the right WuJen. You'll probably need to use a wish, so get a ring of 3 wishes, but that's no so important. Then you'll nedd to extract 2 brains : one is the brain of the All Mighty Tarrasque (this is where I don't want to start a debate about how to do it), the other of a Keeper (Fiend Folio). The keeper is an outsider with a special quality called 'Immunities'; even if he is an outsider, and has a constitution score, that single extraordinary ability grants him all the immunity of the construct type (but he's not a construct, so you can extract his brain). Now you need to recall the tarrasque regeneration (which is unbelievable) and the immunities abilites through your 'recall ability' class ability. With both these ability, which include the all important immunity to non-lethal damage, this creature will be pretty much impossible to injure. Of course you can say 'Big T will regenerate from his brain and it will kill the savant blah blah...' or 'the keeper's immunities extend to brain extaction' or other interpretation to let it not happen in your games. You can even say 'you can transport it in the middle of nowhere blah blah...' (it won't be easy, check it out), but he'll be back... There are many others, more simple, with both regeneration and immunity to non-lethal, even accessible to non-epic player characters, but there not as invulnerable as the Illithild savant (many are available with Eberron campaing setting, and a few with general rules).
Aleolus 11-29-07, 12:40 PM	...Well crud. I just found out from a friend that an Undead Tarrasque could work. If you can find a way to apply undead as a subtype, not an actual type, then you get to keep your Con score, while still getting all the benefits of being undead. That hardly seems fair. :hoppingma That's apparently how a friend of mine got a 75th level Wizard who's immune to damage. He's got the Tarrasques Regeneration (not that high, though), plus he's got Undead as a subtype, so he's still got a Con score, but is immune to nonlethal damage. :banghead:
Tordak 11-29-07, 01:19 PM	I'm curious as to how you can get the undead template (arcording to the regular rules, not house rules) as a subtype, and if the said template would grant all the undead immunity. I know of two classes that grants similar benefice (while keeping you constitution score), the bone knight from Eberron and the Pale Master from Libris Mortis (there might be more, I just don't know them), but haven't seen the type-turned-subtype ... type!
Aleolus 11-29-07, 01:47 PM	He's not right next to me, so I can't ask him to explain it, but I will ask him to sign up here and get on so he can explain how that all works next time I see him.
CrimsonDeath 11-29-07, 08:24 PM	The only way I know of to get a type turned into a subtype is with the Augmented Subtype, which you get when a template changes your type. I don't think you can Augmented Undead, though, because it trumps all the other types except Construct. So, you'd need a template that makes you a Construct, and can be applied to Undead. And you still wouldn't have a Constitution score unless that template also gives you the Living Construct subtype. Hmm... Necropolitan Renegade Mastermaker? But what would your Constitution score be?
Senevri 12-04-07, 07:57 AM	Illithid savant is the correct idea. Step 1: Annoy gods sufficiently, sos they'll send an Aleax after you. Step 2: Extract brain, become immune to all but yourself (Singular Enemy.)
Omen_of_Peace 12-08-07, 09:24 AM	Step 1: Annoy gods sufficiently, sos they'll send an Aleax after you. Step 2: Extract brain, become immune to all but yourself (Singular Enemy.) Aleax are constructs. Cursed Blade (SC) is a nice spell to bypass immunities - though it wouldn't work against the blanket immunity of an aleax. And/or Graymantle (SC) and/or Trollbane.
bomaz 12-13-07, 05:25 PM	there is some sort f undead you can only kill by chopping of its head I believe, add the template to the Lumi (with a floating head) and you should be good. I might not be right, havent checked up the facts recently
The_Inside_Man 12-22-07, 10:33 PM	Umm if you consider a kobold an option, than I think I have an idea...We all know where this path leads...
epifreak 12-29-07, 02:12 PM	For another noteable entry in the damage immune competition, consider the voidmind wartroll (or if you don't like being an illithid slave, 1/2 black dragon). Get your hands on a shield guardian (the construct that takes damage from you until destroyed. Since you only take NL damage, and constructs are immune, happy day). Now all you have to do is worry about save-or-die spells. Your fort save is nice, but not astronomical, and your will save sucks. Any ideas?
Panserbjorn_X 01-03-08, 07:09 PM	It's too bad that the 'Curst' template got nerfed in 3.5 rules. Regeneration became fast Healing. :weep: This is another of the examples of an Undead with regeneration. ~PX~
BetaSquirrell 01-13-08, 07:10 PM	What every happened to the MultiHeaded Lumi? That was a nice one, immune to everything except Disintigration IIRC.
Senevri 01-19-08, 08:29 AM	Kung fu Dragons! I wanna see what happens when you add one- two swordsage levels for an Ancient/Very Old Gold Dragon! ^_^