OGL vs d20 System License [Archive] - Wizards Community

OGL vs d20 System License [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
trickelders
05-17-07, 11:12 PM I'm having a bit of trouble getting my head around the differences between the OGL and the d20 System License. Maybe someone can tell me if I way off-base with some of the conclusions I'm reaching

1) OGL content is "open", and available to be used and manipulated, so long as credit is given to the OGL content.
2) d20 System License only applies if you intend to use the d20 System trademarks and claim d20 compatibility?
3) If you use the d20 license, you are "locked" into the character creation rules found in Dungeons & Dragons Player's Handbook or d20 Modern Roleplaying Game? This means attributes for all characters being 3d6, etc?
4) The System Reference Document has been published under the OGL rules. This means it's open for use and adaptation, without regards to the d20 System License?
Ranger REG
05-18-07, 08:24 PM I'm having a bit of trouble getting my head around the differences between the OGL and the d20 System License. Maybe someone can tell me if I way off-base with some of the conclusions I'm reaching

1) OGL content is "open", and available to be used and manipulated, so long as credit is given to the OGL content.
Credit in the form of citing the source it came from in the OGL's Section 15 Copyright Notice.

2) d20 System License only applies if you intend to use the d20 System trademarks and claim d20 compatibility?
And to use a well-known trademark (i.e., Dungeons & Dragons) in the mandatory requirement label.

3) If you use the d20 license, you are "locked" into the character creation rules found in Dungeons & Dragons Player's Handbook or d20 Modern Roleplaying Game? This means attributes for all characters being 3d6, etc?
Which is why you require either of the aforementioned core rulebook.

4) The System Reference Document has been published under the OGL rules. This means it's open for use and adaptation, without regards to the d20 System License?
You can use the SRD without the d20 System Trademark License, but not without the OGL. The SRD is expressly written for the OGL.

To summarize:

-The OGL is a content license. It defines the difference between Open Game Content (OGC) and Product Identity (PI) and how to use them. It can be used without any trademark use license.

-The d20STL is a trademark use license. It has (strict) ground rules you must comply if you want to claim d20 (and D&D rules) compatibility. One of the requirements the OGC minimum. Because OGC must be used, you must also use the OGL along with the d20STL.

Any more question?
trickelders
05-21-07, 10:10 AM Just one other question:

So I'm right in assuming that one can use SRD content with the OGL, and (so long as no claim is made about "d20" compatibility) without the d20STL?

Seems that may be the way I want to go with my plans.
Ranger REG
05-22-07, 01:36 AM Just one other question:

So I'm right in assuming that one can use SRD content with the OGL, and (so long as no claim is made about "d20" compatibility) without the d20STL?
If you're not convinced, check out some of the games that are strictly OGL-based, like A Game of Throne from Guardians of Order, World of WarCraft, Mutants & Masterminds, etc.
trickelders
05-22-07, 12:45 PM Well, now I'm more confused. You say "strictly OGL-based", but when reading the web sites I find these details:

A Game of Thrones
Sword & Sorcery books are published under the Open Game License and are 100% compatible with v.3.5 rules and the d20 System.

WoW
World of Warcraft: The Roleplaying Game uses the Open Gaming License (OGL), created by Wizards of the Coast. The WoW RPG, therefore, is fully compatible with the world's most popular tabletop roleplaying game—and with just about any other game that makes heavy use of a funny-sided die called a d20.

So does that mean that "A Game of Thrones" is both OGL and d20STL, while "WoW RPG" is only OGL (and they found an interesting way to claim compatibility without mentioning D&D 3.5 and d20 other than by the die name)?
spyone
05-24-07, 10:41 AM Swords& Sorcery is playing near the cliff: I'm not sure they are aloowed to claim their games are "100% compatible with ... the d20 System".
But, their claim about being compatable with "v.3.5 rules" is a good example of the kind of linguistic gymnastics companies use to avoid infringing: they never say v.3.5 of what. Sure, we all know, but they never actually said it, so they can't get in trouble for saying it.

WotC does not hold any trademark on calling a 20 sided die a "d20". They do own a trademark on their pretty d20 logo. And I would have bet they own a trademark on the term "d20 System". And you need their permission to use their trademarks.
Which is why their competitors have come up with phrases (and logos) like "OGL" and "d20 Based Open Gaming" as a way to tell the consumer that their product does indeed use the same rules system as a game they are not allowed to mention by name. "The world's most popular tabletop roleplaying game."

A Game of Thrones is not compliant with the d20 System license, since it includes rules for character generation and experience progression, both of which IIRC are prohibited under the d20 license.
Nellisir
05-25-07, 06:57 PM Spyone has the right of it. You can actually do -more- under the OGL alone than you can under the OGL & the d20 license, because the d20 license prohibits certain things (xp charts, etc). The d20 license is just there so you can use the words "Dungeons & Dragons", and refer to the PHB, DMG, and MM. Companies have found all sorts of clever ways of indicating compatibility with D&D without actually -saying- D&D --- v3.5, World's Most Popular RPG, etc --- though A Game of Thrones does appear to be crossing the line by a toe.

Conan and True20 are also both OGL-only.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
trickelders 05-17-07, 11:12 PM	I'm having a bit of trouble getting my head around the differences between the OGL and the d20 System License. Maybe someone can tell me if I way off-base with some of the conclusions I'm reaching 1) OGL content is "open", and available to be used and manipulated, so long as credit is given to the OGL content. 2) d20 System License only applies if you intend to use the d20 System trademarks and claim d20 compatibility? 3) If you use the d20 license, you are "locked" into the character creation rules found in Dungeons & Dragons Player's Handbook or d20 Modern Roleplaying Game? This means attributes for all characters being 3d6, etc? 4) The System Reference Document has been published under the OGL rules. This means it's open for use and adaptation, without regards to the d20 System License?
Ranger REG 05-18-07, 08:24 PM	I'm having a bit of trouble getting my head around the differences between the OGL and the d20 System License. Maybe someone can tell me if I way off-base with some of the conclusions I'm reaching 1) OGL content is "open", and available to be used and manipulated, so long as credit is given to the OGL content. Credit in the form of citing the source it came from in the OGL's Section 15 Copyright Notice. 2) d20 System License only applies if you intend to use the d20 System trademarks and claim d20 compatibility? And to use a well-known trademark (i.e., Dungeons & Dragons) in the mandatory requirement label. 3) If you use the d20 license, you are "locked" into the character creation rules found in Dungeons & Dragons Player's Handbook or d20 Modern Roleplaying Game? This means attributes for all characters being 3d6, etc? Which is why you require either of the aforementioned core rulebook. 4) The System Reference Document has been published under the OGL rules. This means it's open for use and adaptation, without regards to the d20 System License? You can use the SRD without the d20 System Trademark License, but not without the OGL. The SRD is expressly written for the OGL. To summarize: -The OGL is a content license. It defines the difference between Open Game Content (OGC) and Product Identity (PI) and how to use them. It can be used without any trademark use license. -The d20STL is a trademark use license. It has (strict) ground rules you must comply if you want to claim d20 (and D&D rules) compatibility. One of the requirements the OGC minimum. Because OGC must be used, you must also use the OGL along with the d20STL. Any more question?
trickelders 05-21-07, 10:10 AM	Just one other question: So I'm right in assuming that one can use SRD content with the OGL, and (so long as no claim is made about "d20" compatibility) without the d20STL? Seems that may be the way I want to go with my plans.
Ranger REG 05-22-07, 01:36 AM	Just one other question: So I'm right in assuming that one can use SRD content with the OGL, and (so long as no claim is made about "d20" compatibility) without the d20STL? If you're not convinced, check out some of the games that are strictly OGL-based, like A Game of Throne from Guardians of Order, World of WarCraft, Mutants & Masterminds, etc.
trickelders 05-22-07, 12:45 PM	Well, now I'm more confused. You say "strictly OGL-based", but when reading the web sites I find these details: A Game of Thrones Sword & Sorcery books are published under the Open Game License and are 100% compatible with v.3.5 rules and the d20 System. WoW World of Warcraft: The Roleplaying Game uses the Open Gaming License (OGL), created by Wizards of the Coast. The WoW RPG, therefore, is fully compatible with the world's most popular tabletop roleplaying game—and with just about any other game that makes heavy use of a funny-sided die called a d20. So does that mean that "A Game of Thrones" is both OGL and d20STL, while "WoW RPG" is only OGL (and they found an interesting way to claim compatibility without mentioning D&D 3.5 and d20 other than by the die name)?
spyone 05-24-07, 10:41 AM	Swords& Sorcery is playing near the cliff: I'm not sure they are aloowed to claim their games are "100% compatible with ... the d20 System". But, their claim about being compatable with "v.3.5 rules" is a good example of the kind of linguistic gymnastics companies use to avoid infringing: they never say v.3.5 of what. Sure, we all know, but they never actually said it, so they can't get in trouble for saying it. WotC does not hold any trademark on calling a 20 sided die a "d20". They do own a trademark on their pretty d20 logo. And I would have bet they own a trademark on the term "d20 System". And you need their permission to use their trademarks. Which is why their competitors have come up with phrases (and logos) like "OGL" and "d20 Based Open Gaming" as a way to tell the consumer that their product does indeed use the same rules system as a game they are not allowed to mention by name. "The world's most popular tabletop roleplaying game." A Game of Thrones is not compliant with the d20 System license, since it includes rules for character generation and experience progression, both of which IIRC are prohibited under the d20 license.
Nellisir 05-25-07, 06:57 PM	Spyone has the right of it. You can actually do -more- under the OGL alone than you can under the OGL & the d20 license, because the d20 license prohibits certain things (xp charts, etc). The d20 license is just there so you can use the words "Dungeons & Dragons", and refer to the PHB, DMG, and MM. Companies have found all sorts of clever ways of indicating compatibility with D&D without actually -saying- D&D --- v3.5, World's Most Popular RPG, etc --- though A Game of Thrones does appear to be crossing the line by a toe. Conan and True20 are also both OGL-only.