Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Gideon_Gideonson 07-29-07, 11:51 PM	The world-record for charge damage is currently quite impressive. The highest I've seen so far was Tempest Stormwind and DM Denubis's, located here (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=401662). It dealt slightly over 140,000 damage. However, I've managed to reach the BILLIONS with charging, as detailed below. I can't take credit for this entire build. While I originated (as far as I know) the introduction of multiple weapons into the build and the improvised weapon thing, many of my ideas came from the following people. Thanks a lot guys! Tempest Stormwind Swanyu DM Denubis Otto the Bugbear Pinky's Brain (extra thanks to Pinky's Brain, who's been an enormous help, and deserves co-author credit for pointing out so many things I missed completely (on the last build attempt, but still...) Race: Human Base Scores (Using a 25 point buy) Strength: 13 Dex: 8 Con: 8 Int: 8 Wis: 18 (+5 from levels) Cha: 14 Breakdown: 1. Ranger: Power Attack, Weapon Focus (Lance), Track 2. Fighter: Mounted Combat 3. Fighter: Monkey Grip, Cleave 4. Fighter 5. Fighter: Weapon Specialization (Lance) 6. Fighter: Leadership 7. Fighter: Power Lunge 8. Physic Warrior: Ride-by Attack 9. Physic Warrior: Spirited Charge, Improved Critical (Lance) 10. Cavalier 11. Cavalier 12. Artificer 1: Multi-Weapon Fighting 13. Artificer 2 14. Artificer 3 15. Artificer 4: Improved Multi-weapon Fighting 16. Artificer 5 17. Wild Plains Outrider 1 18. Wild Plains Outrider 2: Greater Multi-weapon Fighting 19. Wild Plains Outrider 3 20. ??????? (open level :D . Be whatever you want.) Items• Periapt of Wisdom +6 – 36,000 GP • Vest of Charisma +4 - 20,000 GP • Belt of Spare Hands - 22,000 GP • 10 Wooden Spikes (Under Weapons below) (703,159 gp, which, when cohort is included, I have) • Ring of Greater Visage of the Deity single use (CL 17, 7,650 GP) • Bracer’s of Giant Size single use (CL 19, 6,650 GP) • Gloves of Girallon's Blessing single use (CL 12, 750 GP) • Helmet of Rhino’s Rush single use (CL 3, 750 GP) • Goggles of Physchofeedback single use (ML 20, 5,000 GP) • Cloak of Bite of the Werebear single use (CL 17, 7,650) • Potion of Divine Favor single use (CL 18, 900 GP) • Ring of ??????'s Triple Strike (I forget the name) single use (CL 10, 2,300 GP) (guesswork, but purchased with Cohort's funds, so its unimportant) • Robe of Divine Power single use (CL 7, 1,400 GP) • Ring of Psionic Lion's Charge single use (CL 20, 2000 GP) (Use Cohort’s gp) • Ring of Prescience, Offensive single use (CL 19, 950 GP) • Tome of Wisdom (whatever its called) +5 – 137,500 GP • 37 Rashimi Fire Wine, aka Jhuld – 2,590 GP • 1 Casting of Polymorph Other – 1,200 To do this, you need to do some polymorphing early on. Pay someone to cast Polymorph Other, and turn yourself into a Xill or other such creature. You now have multiple arms and can take Multi-weapon Fighting (not use it yet, but you can take it). For your cohort, take a level 17 Fatespinner, who will use 105,508 GP of his 340,000 GP to purcase a x2 use item of True Mindswitch. He will then cast Gate to summon a Marilith, and use Seal Fate to give it a -10 to its next save. You will take the mindswitching item and steal the Maralith's body, granting you a usable 6 armed form. (as its Will save will only be +4 and the save DC will be 23, you will succeed at least once, if you spread the uses out to one each day so Seal Fate can recover). You now have 6 arms (8 with your items) and the ability to make an additional round of attacks per round. 1. Activate Greater Visage of the Deity for +4 Strength and +4 Wisdom 2. Now, drink all 37 fire wines for a +74 to Strength, reducing Wisdom to 1. 3. Activate Giant Size to size Gargantuan for a +24 to Strength, remove the ring, and put on other rings 4. Activate Girallon’s Blessing for a total of 10 arms; pick up all 10 weapons 5. Activate Physchofeedback to take -10 to Dex and Con and gain a +20 to Strength (loss of abilities is balanced by Maralith form) 6. Activate Prescience, Offensive for +8 to damage 7. Activate Bite of the Werebear for a +16 to strength 8. Activate Divine Power for good BaB 9. Activate Divine Favor for a +3 to hit and +3 damage 10. Activate the Triple Strike Power 11. Activate Rhino’s Rush and Psionic Lion's Charge for a x2 on your first attack and +20 damage to all attacks this round 12. Charge and watch the carnage unfold! Strength 29 Maralith form+74 unnamed from fire wines+24 size from Giant Size+20 unnamed from Physchofeedback+4 Greater Visage of the Deity, +16 enhancement from Bite of the Werebear: Total: 167 (+78) I can hold 2.233382994x10^12 lbs While this is going on, my cohort does the following: Cohort 12 Wizard/5 Fatespinner Starting Scores Base Scores (Using a 25 point buy) Strength: 8 Dex: 9 Con: 8 Int: 18 (+1 from levels) Wis: 16 (+4 from levels) Cha: 8 Dragonshape into Mature Adult Red dragon (33 Strength) (and cause he’s your mount) Goggles of Physchofeedback single use (ML 20, 5,000 GP) (+20 Str) Periapt of Wisdom +4 (16,000gp) Ring of Greater Visage of the Deity single use (CL 17, 7,650 GP) 27 Firewines (+54 Str) Giant Size to Colossal (+32 Str) Can carry 6.442450944x10^11 lbs and still charge Factoring in my weight, it can carry approximately 5.442450944x10^11 lbs That allows me to carry 10 weapons that each weigh in at 5.442450944x10^10 lbs Each deals about 5.442450944x10^10d6 (no program I have is capable of this math), or, since pointy objects deal damage as if they were twice as heavy, 1.088490189x10^11d6 damage. On average, this is 380,971,566,100 damage per hit. Wood is cheap. I don’t know the exact cost, but firewood costs 1cp for 20lbs. Using this as a base, the construction of all 10 of my wooden spikes would cost me 272,122,547 gp. A bit too expensive. So lets go with weapons 387 times cheaper (just what I can afford), costing me and my cohort combined a total of 703,159 gp, which we have available (just). My average damage is now 984,442,651 per strike. I use Power Attack, adding +20 damage for a -20 attack penalty. My first attack deals an additional x2 damage, and Deadly Charge makes me deal x3 damage with my improvised weapons. Power Lunge grants me Strx2 to damage instead of normal Strength modifiers. DAMAGE (Larger dice rolls averaged for convienence) My primary hand now deals (984,442,651 +78+78+20+1+20+8+3) damage, times 9 or 10, respectively. My secondary hands now deal (984,442,651 +78+78+20+1+20+8+3)x9 damage My Slam attack now deals (8d6+39+39+20+20+8+3) damage My Bite attack now deals (6d8+39+39+20+20+8+3) damage Since I have the Wild Plains Offensive ability, I can make a full attack from my mount. I have +75/+75/+70/+65/+61/+55 with my primary hand I have +75/+69/+64 with 9 secondary hands I have +77 with my Slam attack I have +77 with my Bite attack This totals 36 attacks per round, or, on average, four criticals and two misses (that's out of forty attacks actually, but is the closest approximation). Assuming a lance attack misses and a lance attack Crits (most likely), my average damage is 4x5x(984,442,651+78+78+20+1+20+8+3)+4x(9 84,442,651+78+ 78+20+1+20+8+3)+3x26x(984,442,651+78+78+ 20+1+20+ 8+3)+(8d6+39+39+20+20+3+8)+(6d8+39+39+20 +20+3+8). This damage averages at 100,413,171,800. My damage range (assuming only two misses and four Crits) is 26,580,382,960 – 159,482,169,800. And because it makes it look more impressive, let's break out the scientific notation. 1.00413,171,800x10^11 damage! So, in conclusion, to quote Tempest Stormwind on his charger thread... BOOYAH!
cog_n_taz 07-30-07, 01:31 AM	Congratulations gid, I see nothing wrong here, though I'm no optimizer. This build and anyone who worked on it deserve their own religion after this, definitely a job well done:D. On second thought, polymorph other may not cut it. I'm kinda hazy on the whole polymorph thing, but it may take PaO, or even two castings of it, if you want it to be permanent.
Gideon_Gideonson 07-30-07, 01:45 AM	You know, you may be right. Luckily, there's still about 9,000 gold lying around, so that can be changed.
cog_n_taz 07-30-07, 01:54 AM	Me? Right? Ah well, there's a first time to everything:P . Anyway, I think polymorph other may actually be okay, but it won't last too long, is all. Also, last I checked, it's 3.0, which may tick some people off.
Callix 07-30-07, 03:52 AM	Serious problem there with the xill form... PAO won't be permanent, let alone Polymorph Other. They're not mammals, and aren't human-related, so the maximum duration factor is 7. One week isn't enough time to gain all the levels you need. So no Multiweapon Fighting for you unless you can fatespin/True Mindswitch before 12th, or chuck in a level of feat rogue (possible munchkinism) and get TMS by 14th. Really good work, but a tiny little hole... you don't get that many attacks. Sorry. Probably still a record, even without GMWF.
cog_n_taz 07-30-07, 04:12 AM	I believe I can help there. Cast PAO on yourself to become a Xill. Proceed to cast it again to become a very slightly different Xill (say, a change of eye colour). Since you changed from one thing to another thing that is basically identical, PAO is permanent:D .
Gideon_Gideonson 07-30-07, 05:48 AM	Serious problem there with the xill form... PAO won't be permanent, let alone Polymorph Other. They're not mammals, and aren't human-related, so the maximum duration factor is 7. One week isn't enough time to gain all the levels you need. So no Multiweapon Fighting for you unless you can fatespin/True Mindswitch before 12th, or chuck in a level of feat rogue (possible munchkinism) and get TMS by 14th. Really good work, but a tiny little hole... you don't get that many attacks. Sorry. Probably still a record, even without GMWF. Hmmm...I'll have to think on that one. If I can't figure out a way around that, I'll lose over 2.7 billion damage. That does, however, still put me FAR in the lead :D
Callix 07-30-07, 08:06 AM	Cog: Pure genius. PAO a PAO... he's budgeted for 1200 gp in polymorphs. Two PAOs is 80*15*2=2400. This reduces his improvised stake size, and thuus his damage, but not as much as losing GMWF. I can't believe I helped make a world record... oh, wait, I didn't... I helped bring it down... :weep: Still, I saw the PAO problem, even if I didn't fix it.;)
Gideon_Gideonson 07-30-07, 08:27 AM	Hey...good thing there's about 9,000 of extra GP over from an item I realized I didn't need, isn't it? That nicely covers the extra POA. :D
Callix 07-30-07, 08:50 AM	Can't the extra 7,000 gp add, oh, 98 million damage to the weapons? That's almost a billion more damage over the round. Small peanuts to the rest of the stuff, but every bit helps. This is a world record, after all.
cog_n_taz 07-30-07, 09:33 AM	Nah, if you knew me, than you'd know what I do: I probably saw it somewhere else, and typed it up from subconcious memory, I have enough of a brain to stay alive, but that's about it. Anyway, yeah, spare cash is nice. Also, for feats, if you have any left to burn, than how about mercentile background? That ought to add some damage. Finally, Xills most certainly are better for this purpose than mariliths. And if we allow the book, Savage Species contains the insectile template (I don't have the book, and as such, don't know the LA). This template, among other things, gives you a bunch of extra arms. Now, I know it says that you can't attack with the arms, but these are the TO boards. honestly, even if I wasn't in the middle of a late-night munchkin surge, I'd say that the sensible interpretation would be that while these arms can't be used for natural attacks (not without being a monk, anyway), there's nothing stopping you from using them to hold more tree....er, pieces of wood. Whether it's worth the LA or not is up to you.
The_Mad_Linguist 07-30-07, 03:22 PM	Quarterstaves are free. Why not use them instead?
Gideon_Gideonson 07-30-07, 03:53 PM	Well, improvised weapons deal damage by weight. Quarterstaves deal damage by size. No comparison. And yes. Some day I will go through and cut anything non-crucial to add the maximum amount to the damage. Today, however, is not that day :D
Man-Rata 07-31-07, 05:59 PM	You made a small mistake with the Cohorts stats, you gave him 5 increases, but he is only level 17, so he only gets 4 :) But no biggie.
Fwib 07-31-07, 06:13 PM	Unless I'm missing something, you can't use an improvised weapon that heavy. The Hulking Hurler gets around that, but if you put HH in the build, it'd be a Hurler first, not a Charger (even if it used a hurling charge)
Gideon_Gideonson 07-31-07, 06:19 PM	Common sense says that, but I've never actually seen it in the rules. Can you point out a source?
Fwib 07-31-07, 06:51 PM	Common sense says that, but I've never actually seen it in the rules. Can you point out a source?Complete Warrior page 159 - it defines the weight ranges for light, one-handed and two-handed weapons. Two-handeds max out at 50lb for a medium creature doubling each size up to 400lb for colossal.
cog_n_taz 07-31-07, 06:58 PM	hm, but there are sizes above colossal, does that help?
Fwib 07-31-07, 07:38 PM	hm, but there are sizes above colossal, does that help?I know of colossal+, but it doesn't seem well-defined - in any case, achieving sufficient size that your improvised two-handed weapon would do impressive damage, even if size were defined in such a way that it had no upper limit, would be difficult.
Gideon_Gideonson 07-31-07, 07:43 PM	Sigh. Guess it's back to the old version then...still wins, damage-wise, but it's a MUCH closer thing. I'll get that up sometime.
Gideon_Gideonson 07-31-07, 07:49 PM	...Actually, RAW has no mention of a cap. It says that 11-50lb. is a two-handed weapon, but never says that anything that weighs more is not wieldable. It's intended, but not stated. So I simply need to cut down on the number of hands, which is fine, since the weight of each weapon then doubles. The change in damage in negligible given the alarmingly large total.
cog_n_taz 07-31-07, 08:00 PM	Eh? Cut down? Why? Did my mentioning the insectile template retroactively somehow make more arms a Bad Thing?
Gideon_Gideonson 07-31-07, 08:09 PM	No...the weapons were one-handed. Now they have become 2 handed. I simply have to use less weapons...I suppose I worded it badly. :D
Fwib 07-31-07, 08:32 PM	No...the weapons were one-handed. Now they have become 2 handed. I simply have to use less weapons...I suppose I worded it badly. :DWeapons above 400lb (for colossal) are not two-handed - they're undefined type. Since they still appear to be weapons, it's probably still workable, though.
cog_n_taz 07-31-07, 10:01 PM	Undefined? how does that work? I suppose saying "well, in that case, call 'em one-handers" would be unfair...
Fwib 08-01-07, 12:26 PM	Undefined? how does that work? I suppose saying "well, in that case, call 'em one-handers" would be unfair...Its just that it says 'from weight A to weigh B: light, weigh B to C: one-handed, C to D: two-handed' above D it doesn't specify what type of weapon it is. Perhaps a DM might rule that the intention is that objects above that threshold are not usable as improvised weapons.... The Hurler gets around this problem by making anything you can pick up a thrown weapon, I dunno how do deal with it for a meleeist, without bringing in the Hurler.
Maat_Mons 08-07-07, 08:28 PM	Actually, RAW has no mention of a cap. It says that 11-50lb. is a two-handed weapon, but never says that anything that weighs more is not wieldable. The way I’d look at it, it says you can wield items of certain weights as weapons, and never says you can use heavier items as weapons. You are technically correct in pointing out that the rules don’t say you can’t wield weapons of any weight you can lift, but that has never been considered a valid argument on these boards.
edgewraith 11-28-07, 10:05 PM	nice try but your character is dead at step 4 that = O dammage you gave your dopy character 8 con and then cast a spell that -10 con your self = dead. + fire wines don't stack i didn't bother to read the rest no point
Hyfigh 11-29-07, 09:04 AM	nice try but your character is dead at step 4 that = O dammage you gave your dopy character 8 con and then cast a spell that -10 con your self = dead. + fire wines don't stack i didn't bother to read the rest no point I think, if I'm deciphering the hieroglyphics you call typing correctly, that you mean step 5 reduces con by 10. You're incorrect, though, in that he only has 8 con base. With Giant Size alone he gains +8 con from going Gargantuan. Pretty sure that Fire Wine stacks because it's an unnamed bonus.
The_Mad_Linguist 11-30-07, 05:56 AM	Pretty sure that Fire Wine stacks because it's an unnamed bonus. From the same source (fire wine), though. Which mean they don't stack.
Mirdur 12-19-07, 10:33 PM	Just to add my 2 cents in this discussion, I noticed you purchased a ring of Lion's Pounce and tyou could save this money. Since your last level is clear, you could take the barbarian with the lion totem from Complete champion and get pounce for free (also with rage if it helps).