Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Wizardmon 02-14-08, 09:59 PM	Hello all. I was just thinking about it, and as old and kind of lame as Pokemon is, I think it would make a great d20 game. There is already this (http://www.scshop.com/~ritaxis/), but there are some problems with it: -Focus on the character, not the Pokemon-- I usually prefer to keep the statistical readout for the Pokemon, and keep the character for RP and skills and things -Incomplete-- Of all the Pokemon out to date, this goes all the way from Bulbasaur to... Raticate? So, I make this thread to ask you all this: Anybody know of a more complete/better d20 Pokemon system?
Ookami_Keima 02-15-08, 03:53 AM	i've been playing around with the idea myself for about a week or so... i've got a few things written up and pretty much just jotting it down as I go a long. The system I'm working for more or less concentrates on the Pokemon and less on the people in the world... I'll give you a few examples; Types A Pokemon's types apply certain bonus' to them; A Pokemon of multiple types are givin the bonus' of both types. Bug: Fly speed equal to normal speed; +2 Dex; -2 Cha Dark: +2 Con; +2 Str; -2 Wis Dragon: +2 Int; +2 Cha; -2 Dex Electic: +2 Dex; +2 Int; -2 Str Fighting: +2 Str; +2 Con; -2 Int Fire: +2 Int; +2 Cha; -2 Str Flying: +2 Dex; +2 Cha; -2 Con Ghost: +2 Dex; +2 Wis; -2 Con Grass: +2 Int; +2 Wis; -2 Str Ground: Dig speed equal to normal speed; +2 Con; -2 Int Ice: +2 Wis; +2 Dex; -2 Str Normal: No Stat Adjustments Poison: +2 Int; +2 Con; -2 Cha Psychic: +2 Int; +2 Wis; -2 Str Rock: +2 Con; +2 Str; -2 Dex Steel: +2 Con; +2 Str; -2 Dex Water: Swim speed equal to normal speed; +2 Dex; -2 Str Attacks Physical Attacks - d20 + BAB + Str Mod + Misc Mods vs. AC Special Attacks - d20 + 1/2 level + Misc Mods vs. Fort/Ref/Will STAB - If user is the same type as the attack used, attack gains +1/2 dmg/level, rounded down. Name - Type/A. Type PP: Range: Area: Save: Duration: Disc: Effect: Tackle - Normal/Physical PP: 35 Range: 5 ft. Disc: Charges the foe with a full-body tackle. Effect: A sucessful attack deals 1d4+1/2 level damage. Growl - Normal/Special PP; 40 Range: 30 ft. Area: 2 Targets within 30 ft. Save: Will negates. Duration: 1 min/level. Disc: Growls cutely to reduce the foe's attack. Effect: The foe's attacks deal 2 less damage. Abilities Adaptability Disc: Powers up moves of the same type. Effect: Doubles STAB of the Pokemon Duration: Permanent. Aftermath Disc: Damages the foe landing the finishing hit. Effect: When this Pokemon is brought to or below 0 HP, damage the enemy that last hit this Pokemon by 1/4 it's max HP. Duration: Permanent. Air Lock Disc: Eliminates the effects of weather. Effect: All weather effecting attacks are negated within 100 ft Duration: Permanent. Anger Point Disc: Raises Strength upon taking a critical hit. Effect: Increses the Pokemon's Strength score by 4 after being hit by a critical blow. Duration: 1 min. Anticipation Disc: Senses the foe's dangerous moves. Effect: Upon encountering an enemy Pokemon, the Pokemon knows if the enemy knows super-effective moves and communicates that to it's trainer. Duration: Permanent. Arena Trap Disc: Prevents the foe from fleeing. Effect: Any enemy Pokemon within 60 ft cannot be called back to it's Pokeball. Flying-type Pokemon and Pokemon with the Levitate ability are unaffected. The opponent may still switch by using moves such as Baton Pass. Duration: Permanent. I have more done, that's just to give you a good idea for what I'm working towards.
Wizardmon 02-15-08, 02:29 PM	Alright, looks good so far. Powers are important, but my primary concern for your system is level advancement and skills. Also, trainers have abilities too: it would be good to consider those as well. Good luck on your system!
sword_war444 02-15-08, 07:03 PM	well actualy I have started one. I got a few pokemon stated and several stats. I need some help with it to.
Ookami_Keima 02-17-08, 04:52 AM	Yeah, i know... I'm more just working on how to get combat down and work before I start putting everything else togeather; I figure that's the easiest way to start since when it all comes down to it that's the most complex and difficult part of making a system
Wizardmon 02-17-08, 12:30 PM	Makes sense. BTW, I do not recommend powers that boost ability scores, it slows things down and is over-complicated. I also recommend that you make it as "4e-y" as possible: Tome of Battle and SWSE are great references.
arcanejazz 02-20-08, 12:59 AM	[accidental double post, sorry >.<]
arcanejazz 02-20-08, 01:01 AM	Hey this is just my thoughts, so youre welcome to dismiss it, but, I have a method Ive used to recreate several pokemon. Its not the best, but its simple and effective. Look at Rayquaza. His base stats are: HP 105 Attack 150 Speed 95 Defense 90 Sp. Defense 90 Sp. Attack 150 I equate Attack as STR, Speed as DEX, Defense as CON, Special Def as WIS, and Special Atk as CHA. Intelligence is mostly irrelevant in pokemon, imho. They only seem to be about as smart as their trainers, except for the legendarys who can communicate with humans (such as Mewtwo). If you wanna come up with a way to derive an INT stat, be my guest xD Anyway, I take those numbers and divide them by 5, and get the following: STR 30 (+10) DEX 19 (+4) CON 18 (+4) INT xx (+x) WIS 18 (+4) CHA 30 (+10) To come up with the hitdice, I divide the pokemon HP by the con modifier, which equals roughly 26. Rayquaza is a kind of dragon, so it gets d12s, but I imagine Legendary Pokemon as a sorta demigod like character, and give them maxxed out hit points. Thus, Rayquaza would have 416 HP(312hd + 104con). Space, Reach, Physical attack and all that, compare to a Collossal Dragon. Special move are more complicated, but should be treated as SLA's if theyre "special" and Extraordinary if theyre "normal." Bulbawiki has a well organized database of all the pokemon moves to help you out. Its just my simplified system. If you find something you like, go ahead and ignore me, lmao. Good luck to anyone working on a Pokemon d20, I have seen many attempts that fell through becauses theres just SO many pokemon, lmao. What we need is a universal, simple system like mine (note that i said "like" xD) That will easily convert a pokemon into d20 mechanics.
Prime32 02-21-08, 03:04 PM	I would give Rayquaza a Tarrasque-style Rush ability (and Powerful Charge) for Extremespeed, as well as berserker frenzy for Outrage. And don't forget Maximised disintegrate for Hyper Beam. It shouldn't need to breathe, as it has been shown underwater and in the ozone layer. Then there's Ancientpower (empowered hail of stone), Crunch (Improved Sunder and Combat Brute[sundering cleave]), Rest (heal), Twister (whirlwind) and Scary Face (fear) Yep, I looked those up. I already statted Mewtwo (see my sig) as an epic monstrosity.
Ookami_Keima 02-22-08, 06:57 PM	I'm starting to think that a formula of some sort may exsit, like Arcane said above, but the only thing that rubs me the wrong way about that is that not every Pokemon is the same; each one of them is diffrent... i.e. not all Bulbasaur's have the same stats. If it's done that way (the division by 5 rule seems to work; if the max level of a Pokemon is lvl 100 and the max lvl of a d20 game is 20) it seems to be a good starting point... I'll work on this and see what I can come up with.. EDIT: Okay, after toying around with it for a minute, it seems to work quite well. Only thing I changed from your formula Arcane was switching up INT and CHA; Pokemon seem to have some reasonable INT, espically in Psychic types. But that still leaves the problem of what to do with CHA and how to calulate that...
Prime32 02-23-08, 08:35 AM	I think it's best to tie Special Attack to Cha - that is what D&D uses for similar abilities, when it doesn't use Con. Int should vary depending on the Pokémon, or even the individual (Team Rocket's Meowth is far more intelligent than normal).
arcanejazz 02-25-08, 07:33 AM	I think it's best to tie Special Attack to Cha - that is what D&D uses for similar abilities, when it doesn't use Con. Int should vary depending on the Pokémon, or even the individual (Team Rocket's Meowth is far more intelligent than normal). You are exactly right, and this is why I left Int open-ended for now. Also, since there is often debate on how to handle element types in d20, Im not going to go into that yet either. All pokemon of the same species have the same base stats. Those numbers are modified by both its Nature and its EV distribution (Yup, Im an authentic pokemon player :D) What Nature and EV's equate to in d20 are Heritage Feats that grant stat bonuses and penalties, and simple stat increases every 4 levels. (though EV's will operate a little differently than that, its the same mechanic of gaining stat bonus by gaining levels) For the Rayquaza above, I only went with base stats for simplicity. With the right nature and EV distribution, it could look far different. In fact, lets do that right now! ^^; The most frequently used Rayquaza build is called "Dragon Dancer," and has the following EV distribution: 32 HP / 252 Atk / 6 SpD / 216 Spe, and has an Adamant nature. What Id do, is divide all EV's (except HP) by 10, and get: HP +32 Str +25 Dex +1 Cha +21 Adamant nature grants a bonus to Attack, and a penalty to Special Attack, both minor. Lets just make them +2 str, -2 cha Add those in, and now Rayquaza has: HP 137 (+ 4 per HD, whatever we wind up deciding how many that is) STR 57 (+23) DEX 20 (+5) CON 18 (+4) INT xx (+x) WIS 18 (+4) CHA 49 (+19) Now were talking. These incredibly high numbers more properly reflect an epic force of nature such as Rayquaza. The common move set for the Dragon Dancer build is as follows: ~ Dragon Dance ~ Outrage ~ Earthquake / Overheat ~ Overheat / Crunch / Extremespeed / Dragon Claw While normally a pokemon only gets 4 moves, a creature of this power in d20 might actually be under powered if he didnt have all of them. So, lets give him everything! :) Dragon Dance: Boosts user's Attack and Speed one stage. Barbarian's Mighty Rage, but the bonus goes to Str and Dex. Also he would not be fatigued afterward as if he had Timeless Rage too. It is usuable 10/day. (Outrage is redundant in d20 with Dragon Rage) Earthquake: The user sets off an earthquake that hits all the Pokémon in the battle. Earthquake, as cast by a level 20 Druid. Useable 10/day/ Overheat: A slightly inaccurate and very highly-damaging Fire-type move. Red Dragon's breath weapon, 24d10 damage, with a DC equal to its HD (which counts as "slightly inaccurate" because you at least have a chance of dodging it xD) Crunch: The user crunches up the foe with sharp fangs. It may also lower the target's Defense stat. Also of note is that this is a dark-type move. Thus, a colossal dragon bite, that does 4d8 negative enegy damage, and a failed will save (same DC as Overheat) will leave the foe shaken for... lets say 1d4 rounds. This move could use some fine-tuning, hehe. Extremespeed: The user charges the foe at blinding speed. This attack always goes before any other move. As a standard action, Rayquaza will gain a +30 enhancement to Initiative next round. This ability can be used 5 times per day. Oh, almost forgot! All pokemon have an extra special ability unique to their species (well, not TRULY unique, some pokemon have the ability). Rayquaza's is called Air Lock. Air Lock: While Pokémon with Air Lock are out, the effects of weather are temporarily disabled. Fire and Water moves are at normal power in sun and rain, Rocks have normal Special Defense in sandstorm, SolarBeam has 120 power and takes 2 turns, and Blizzard and Thunder have normal accuracy. The game will report that the weather is still going, however. The weather's effects will return when the Pokémon with Air Lock switches out. Hmmm... This one is a bit tricky. The environment doesnt provide benefits to players or spells... So, Im gonna say... Air Lock: As the Sky Dragon, Rayquaza haults the very air around him. In a 25 foot radius, originating from the center of Rayquaza's body, radiates a special type of anti-magic field. The field has energy resistance 10 to fire, ice, electricity, acid, and sonic. All spells of the "Air" and "Water" descriptor are negated as well. ======== So, that was the longest post Ive ever written anywhere. Haha. Thats ok though. I hope this gives you better insight into a d20 Pokemon Conversion System. Oh, and just for the record... Hyperbeam sucks, hahaha. But the anime depicts it to be the most amazing move ever, and whenever Gyarados has it, it rapes for reasons I will never understand. Also, Pikachu can apparently use Iron Tail to 1-hit-KO a Torterra. It happened in the Pokemon movie that was on today. Lol!
Prime32 02-25-08, 03:05 PM	~ Dragon Dance ~ Outrage ~ Earthquake / Overheat ~ Overheat / Crunch / Extremespeed / Dragon Claw While normally a pokemon only gets 4 moves, a creature of this power in d20 might actually be under powered if he didnt have all of them. So, lets give him everything! :) Dragon Dance: Boosts user's Attack and Speed one stage. Barbarian's Mighty Rage, but the bonus goes to Str and Dex. Also he would not be fatigued afterward as if he had Timeless Rage too. It is usuable 10/day. I would give whirling frenzy instead (Str bonus and extra attack), but it's a matter of taste. And 10/day?! Unless it has a duration of 1 round, you're better off dividing the PP of the move by five to find uses per day (unless the PP is 25 or higher, in which case it can be used at will). (Outrage is redundant in d20 with Dragon Rage) Huh? Dragon rage is an attack that deals a fixed 40 damage, Outrage causes the user to attack for 2-5 turns with very great power, then become confused. Overheat: A slightly inaccurate and very highly-damaging Fire-type move. Red Dragon's breath weapon, 24d10 damage, with a DC equal to its HD (which counts as "slightly inaccurate" because you at least have a chance of dodging it xD) Inaccuracy isn't the defining trait of that move - it's that the user literally overheats from its power, greatly reducing their Special Attack (in the anime, they glow red and steam, breathe an enormous jet of white-hot flames, then sweat and breathe heavily afterwards). I'd say fatigue, maybe with a Fort save to negate. Crunch: The user crunches up the foe with sharp fangs. It may also lower the target's Defense stat. Also of note is that this is a dark-type move. Thus, a colossal dragon bite, that does 4d8 negative enegy damage, and a failed will save (same DC as Overheat) will leave the foe shaken for... lets say 1d4 rounds. This move could use some fine-tuning, hehe. If this is being used against PCs, the best way to lower their Defence is to sunder their armour (which is why I listed it as Improved Sunder/Sundering Cleave above). And as for negative energy damage, recall that dark-type attacks deal double damage to ghost-types.:rolleyes: In my Mewtwo stats, I gave him DR/evil to anticipate this (dark natural attacks treated as evil-aligned). Extremespeed: The user charges the foe at blinding speed. This attack always goes before any other move. As a standard action, Rayquaza will gain a +30 enhancement to Initiative next round. This ability can be used 5 times per day. Don't forget, Extremespeed is also quite a powerful attack, dealing 80 damage (equal to Crunch) Air Lock: As the Sky Dragon, Rayquaza haults the very air around him. In a 25 foot radius, originating from the center of Rayquaza's body, radiates a special type of anti-magic field. The field has energy resistance 10 to fire, ice, electricity, acid, and sonic. All spells of the "Air" and "Water" descriptor are negated as well. A druid can cast control weather and get Rayquaza struck by lightning using this version of the ability. That... would be bad. Oh, and just for the record... Hyperbeam sucks, hahaha. But the anime depicts it to be the most amazing move ever, and whenever Gyarados has it, it rapes for reasons I will never understand. Well, that wasn't the first (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_mGOFQVhtFs) Hyper Beam Nintendo designed... Also, Pikachu can apparently use Iron Tail to 1-hit-KO a Torterra. It happened in the Pokemon movie that was on today. Lol! We all know Ash uses a Gameshark - that Pikachu must be level 255.
arcanejazz 02-25-08, 05:51 PM	I would give whirling frenzy instead (Str bonus and extra attack), but it's a matter of taste. And 10/day?! Unless it has a duration of 1 round, you're better off dividing the PP of the move by five to find uses per day (unless the PP is 25 or higher, in which case it can be used at will). Youre right, I hadnt thought about what to do with PP, so one of the two ideas you suggested should be used. I think it would be better to make it 5/day, and then give it a duration of 4 round (his CON mod.) Huh? Dragon rage is an attack that deals a fixed 40 damage, Outrage causes the user to attack for 2-5 turns with very great power, then become confused. It sounded too similar to me. And I wasnt sure what to do about confusion. Dazed? We could still make an outrage ability, I'll try not to be so lazy next time (I was very tired as I wrote all this after all). Inaccuracy isn't the defining trait of that move - it's that the user literally overheats from its power, greatly reducing their Special Attack (in the anime, they glow red and steam, breathe an enormous jet of white-hot flames, then sweat and breathe heavily afterwards). I'd say fatigue, maybe with a Fort save to negate. Well honestly, I think if we are going to go by the anime, then this thread is in the wrong location. There are a TON of differences between the games and the show. Still, I think the fatigue thing is fair, in addition to the reflex DC. If this is being used against PCs, the best way to lower their Defence is to sunder their armour (which is why I listed it as Improved Sunder/Sundering Cleave above). And as for negative energy damage, recall that dark-type attacks deal double damage to ghost-types.:rolleyes: In my Mewtwo stats, I gave him DR/evil to anticipate this (dark natural attacks treated as evil-aligned). Hmm, dark is a somewhat hard to define element in terms of d20. But Rayquaza is not an evil pokemon (he'd be true neutral, possibly CN), he just has one dark element attack. Im not sure what sounds better for this, but the Improved Sunder/Sundering Cleave is good, so that should stay. Don't forget, Extremespeed is also quite a powerful attack, dealing 80 damage (equal to Crunch) Youre right, and there is an easy way to define that. I meant to add that I envisioned the extreme move giving them a chance for a normal attack before anyone else. A colossal dragon's crush does 4d8 damage as well. Rayquaza could do this, but as a slam attack, that doesnt pin them down (he might be Colossal size, but he doesnt have the girth/is too skinny to pin people down like the dragons natural crush attack, so I'd go with a slam). A druid can cast control weather and get Rayquaza struck by lightning using this version of the ability. That... would be bad. Isnt Control Weather an air spell? Well, upon checking I see that it's not (It's Transmutation without any element descriptor). We should further add that spells like that dont function as long as Rayquaza is in the range of the spell (in this case, a 2-mile radius centered on the caster.) The point of Air Lock is that all effects of weather are negated. So, no one else can control the weather to their advantage around Rayquaza. Well, that wasn't the first (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_mGOFQVhtFs) Hyper Beam Nintendo designed... LMAO. Great example of what hyper beam SHOULD be. But in pokemon, its special attack move with normal element type. And Normal pokemon on average have low special attack, so this equates to far less damage. Plus it forces you to rest the next round. Thats almost always the last breath your pokemon will take in competitive play. We all know Ash uses a Gameshark - that Pikachu must be level 255. HAHAHA. Quote board, my friend. >_>; In the manga, I call him "Gokuchu" because he pulls off feats that defy explanation and is like an epic level sorcerer fighting kobolds.