Sanity system (you should like this) [Archive] - Wizards Community

Sanity system (you should like this) [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
DragonBringerX
07-23-07, 01:59 AM Ok, I like the idea of sanity or mental health along sides with hit points or physical health, especially in horror games. So, I looked around for a good sanity system and found nothing. So, whats a DM to do when in such a predicament. Create his own of course! :P

Ok, this is what I've got so far (its about 90% complete). All examples given are based on a real world, modern earth setting.
Its 5 easy rules.

Rule 1
Every character starts out with a mental health (or MH) of 10.

Rule 2
Whenever the DM deems right, a sanity check is called for. A sanity check is you roll 1d10, if the result is equal to or less then your current MH, you succeed. Please note that just because you succeed doesn't mean you don't take MH damage.

Rule 3
A character recovers mental health over time. You recover 1 MH point after a full nights rest, unless your MH is 0 or lower. Note, a DM can slow this down or change it as he feels necessary to fit his game. Some horror games, for example, might state that this recovery only happens once a week, or month, or even never!

Rule 4
A DM must determine what causes a sanity check. Their are no finite rules for this because what is alien in one world/universe could be normal in another. (e.g. magic in our world would make some scream while in a standard fantasy world its so common few people take notice). Also, a DM must determine how intense a sanity check must be for what situation. For example, seeing a dead body might require a light check, while witnessing Cthulhu rise from the depths might require an earth shattering check. See table below:

Type of Check - Damage Failed/Damage Success - example (in real world)
Light - 1/0 - coming into contact with one of you fears
Moderate - 1d4/0 - seeing an acceptable monster like a zombie
Heavy - 1d4/1 - seeing a freaky monster like a allip (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/allip.htm) or encountering worst fear
Unbelievable - 2d4/ (1/2 result) seeing a powerful spell
Earth shattering - 2d4+4/ (1/2 result) seeing a powerful demon summon
Unusual - 1 (no save) - seeing a party member/well known person fall
Very unusual - 1d4 (no save) - seeing a party member/well liked person die
Insane - 2d4 (no save) - seeing a party member/loved one die horribly

Rule 5
Once you have reached a mental health (MH) of 0 you are temporally insane. This is just like reaching health (hp) of 0. Once you reach MH of -1 to -9, you are insane. You loose control of your character and he/she will begin acting franticly. See table below for random example actions they may take. You should create your own to fit your game or situation. Once you reach MH of -10, you are permanently insane (or dead). What has just occurred is too intense for you too handle and shall for ever walk the halls of madness (or at least an insane asylum).

1d100
1-10 - passes out for 1d4 minutes/hours/days
11-35 - goes delusional. Starts seeing things that aren't really there, unable to tell what is really happening and what is just their minds. (example, they might see more monsters, hear the cries of children, see worms crawling all over the walls, etc.)
36-45 - freeze with fear. Cannot move or take any action including talking.
46-60 - flees the scene/creature/danger as fast as possible in the shortest route possible (not necessarily the safest route)
61-70 - continues current action repeatedly with no break or pause or reason. (example, empties clip in gun and keeps pulling the trigger)
71-80 - event/creature become new worst fear.
81-85 - becomes manic and performs random actions that have no thought behind them
86-90 - seems fine, but becomes catatonic for 1d4 hour/days/weeks/months/or years
91-95 - passes out as above, but has amnesia from the event back
95-99 - attempts to kill themselves
100 - drops automatically to Mental Health of -10

Now, if you have any other insanity effects you would like to suggest I more than welcome suggestions. Now please do consider that if they should be generic (not time specific), I may add them and reconfigure the list above. I'd like to have 20-30 possible outcomes, but I'm only so creative before I run dry.

Now, what I have above is playable in a standard d20 modern game, but you may run into a few things here and there. So I want to try and patch those few things here on this thread with help from you guys.

Magic and Sanity
Now, whether or not magic is in "normal" in your game or "unreal" is up to you, but there are a few spells that affect the mind. Here are some spells from the PHB that should require a sanity check just for the spell effect alone or should be considered. Another words, if spells aren't normal in your game, you may require a sanity check for seeing the spell and then again for the effect, or you may just bump up the damage by 1 or 2 types.

Spell Name - Sanity Damage
Baleful Polymorph - very unusual
Cause Fear - Moderate
Confusion - Unusual
Doom - Moderate
Fear - Heavy / Moderate on save
Insanity - Unusual (causes same effect as confusion spell)
Maze - Unbelievable
Phantasmal killer - depends on who dies
Raise/Create Dead - depends on how often you've seen said creature type.
Scare - Heavy
Summon Monster (any) - depends on what is summoned
Symbol of fear - (same as fear spell)
Weird - earth shattering (lots will die here)

Other spells with effects such as
Death effects - depends on who dies
Dominate/controlling effect - very unusual
Shaken effects - moderate
frasmage
07-23-07, 09:22 AM nice to see my suggestion completely assimilated into the system so fast, though I think it might be better if it had a higher chance of occuring, say closer to 40%.

as for the spell thing, I would say only check for sanity loss if they fail their will save (or if they get none). Otherwise some spells gain a huge amount of additional power.

As you requested, here are some things the delusional might see:
-the statues and portraits appear to turn their heads to watch the character
-every time any creature or player is struck in combat, huge surges of blood seem to fly from the wounds
-there appear to be more and more monsters joining combat each round
-they notice something twisted in pictures/paintings that no one else does (ex: someone being murdered in the distance of a landscape)
-blood drips slowly from the ceiling and walls
-if the player falls to the floor, they find maggots squirming all around them.
-cannot do anything but speak gibberish
-can hear a voice calling their name and telling them to do things...
-a foe appears identical to an ally
-a foe appears identical to himself
-an ally appears identical to a foe
-mirrors show something twisted or weird (ex: the insane player sees what looks like a massive insect crawling around his head)
-disemboweled creatures' body parts seem to grow little tendrils and walk around aimless on them.
-every room appears filled with heavy fog

thats enough for now :P more later.
Some of them have game penalties, others can be used to further the plot or lead the players along. If you intend to lead them along, it would be best not to reveal the delusion right away. Wait a few hours until somewhere far from the source of insanity, in a different location. It adds more credibility to being able to confuse and lead them.

one last thing, I was thinking, if you had someone with profession (psychiatrist) or something along those lines giving you aid as you rest, perhaps you could heal the sanity drain faster. Working in a way similar to the heal skill working on bedridden wounded. Thoughts?
Veonecris
07-23-07, 09:23 PM I've been playtesting this system for DBX for a while now, it has worked pretty well so far...

(Looks at Dragonbringer) :hides:
Raymond_Luxury_Yacht
07-24-07, 03:40 AM I don't understand why you can't use the sanity system in the SRD.
DragonBringerX
07-24-07, 12:58 PM I don't understand why you can't use the sanity system in the SRD.

I can, but it's too Cthulu-like. :P I simply don't like it. Because there are no official rules for sanity, I figured I'd make my own. Besides, not everyone owns Unearthed Arcana, and not everyone should either. :D
Sandlphon
07-30-07, 10:29 AM Looks good i will try it out. [the players should love this...]
:plotting: :duel: :coolcthul :dice: :drool:
The Colonel
08-03-07, 06:37 PM Being ressurected (if applicable) should probably be pretty hard on the sanity as well ... fantasy RPGs don't play this up nearly enough.
DragonBringerX
08-04-07, 02:48 AM Being ressurected (if applicable) should probably be pretty hard on the sanity as well ... fantasy RPGs don't play this up nearly enough.

never thought of that...hmm I imagine it would do unusual or very unusual damage. (man that would suck being resurrected only to loose your mind over it).
Ezram
08-04-07, 08:09 PM Won't high Wisdom / Will save characters get some kind of resistance?
DragonBringerX
08-05-07, 03:01 AM Won't high Wisdom / Will save characters get some kind of resistance?

in this particular system...no. If you want to change it a little, i don't recommend it, but if you want to for yourself...feel free. This system works fine by its self though. :)
Ezram
08-05-07, 03:29 AM I just find it odd that those with a strong will, sense of self and confidence are equally susceptible :confused:
DragonBringerX
08-06-07, 03:35 AM usually I would agree with you here, but for simplicity sake, I dont want to. One of the main reasons is because of the such low number count. I mean were only dealing with numbers between -10 and 10. If you want to make it a little different, higher numbers, then by all means include a bonus for wisdom and high will. The point of this system is to be simple, adding that might make it a little too complex. If you have any ideas, im all ears (after all thats what this thread is about).
j0lt
08-10-07, 07:56 PM I think it would work really well to go with a condition track system like SW Saga Edition and base it on Will vs fear effects. (each condition level mirrors one fear effect: shaken, panicked, cowering, etc...)
You could have 2 levels of sanity damage: Minor & Major
Minor sanity damage would move you 1 step down the condition track on a failed save. On a successful save, the character is unaffected.
Major sanity damage would move you all the way to step 5 (unconsciousness) on a failed save, or one step on a successful save.
ArgulFraster
08-13-07, 04:21 PM I think the system needs to be tailored by character; different people find different things scary. For me, nonhuman gore is just sort of neutral-but savaged human remains are disturbing. Likewise, the dead aren't really creepy except under the right circumstances. Anyone's brave with a fully loaded railgun-it takes being low on health and low on ammo/armor/weapons to really make me freak.
DragonBringerX
08-14-07, 02:16 AM I think the system needs to be tailored by character; different people find different things scary. For me, nonhuman gore is just sort of neutral-but savaged human remains are disturbing. Likewise, the dead aren't really creepy except under the right circumstances. Anyone's brave with a fully loaded railgun-it takes being low on health and low on ammo/armor/weapons to really make me freak.

this is why the rules on what requires a save are "flexible" or "vague". Its whatever the DM and/or player feel is a necessary save. For example, in my game the first time or two the players saw zombies...SANITY CHECK. but after that, i simply don't require it anymore unless they see a hoard of em. another thing I did was have each player write down some of their characters worst fears. Then again thats because I'm running a survival horror game.
Alurvelve
08-22-07, 11:51 PM It's been a while since I read unearthed arcane, but does it have rules for sanity, and if so what page number is t on?

I do like how you have yours set-up, but I do agree that someone with a high wisdom should be able to resist this better. Not sure if I am wanting a will save or just wisdom check, but i'll play with it some.
DragonBringerX
09-21-07, 08:21 PM :bump:
JosephKell
09-21-07, 09:21 PM I like what you have here, but it seems that there isn't a gradual process.

You just go from positive to 0 (episodic) to constantly insane (-1 through -9).

I do wish I saw it before I tried to make some insanity rules though.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
DragonBringerX 07-23-07, 01:59 AM	Ok, I like the idea of sanity or mental health along sides with hit points or physical health, especially in horror games. So, I looked around for a good sanity system and found nothing. So, whats a DM to do when in such a predicament. Create his own of course! :P Ok, this is what I've got so far (its about 90% complete). All examples given are based on a real world, modern earth setting. Its 5 easy rules. Rule 1 Every character starts out with a mental health (or MH) of 10. Rule 2 Whenever the DM deems right, a sanity check is called for. A sanity check is you roll 1d10, if the result is equal to or less then your current MH, you succeed. Please note that just because you succeed doesn't mean you don't take MH damage. Rule 3 A character recovers mental health over time. You recover 1 MH point after a full nights rest, unless your MH is 0 or lower. Note, a DM can slow this down or change it as he feels necessary to fit his game. Some horror games, for example, might state that this recovery only happens once a week, or month, or even never! Rule 4 A DM must determine what causes a sanity check. Their are no finite rules for this because what is alien in one world/universe could be normal in another. (e.g. magic in our world would make some scream while in a standard fantasy world its so common few people take notice). Also, a DM must determine how intense a sanity check must be for what situation. For example, seeing a dead body might require a light check, while witnessing Cthulhu rise from the depths might require an earth shattering check. See table below: Type of Check - Damage Failed/Damage Success - example (in real world) Light - 1/0 - coming into contact with one of you fears Moderate - 1d4/0 - seeing an acceptable monster like a zombie Heavy - 1d4/1 - seeing a freaky monster like a allip (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/allip.htm) or encountering worst fear Unbelievable - 2d4/ (1/2 result) seeing a powerful spell Earth shattering - 2d4+4/ (1/2 result) seeing a powerful demon summon Unusual - 1 (no save) - seeing a party member/well known person fall Very unusual - 1d4 (no save) - seeing a party member/well liked person die Insane - 2d4 (no save) - seeing a party member/loved one die horribly Rule 5 Once you have reached a mental health (MH) of 0 you are temporally insane. This is just like reaching health (hp) of 0. Once you reach MH of -1 to -9, you are insane. You loose control of your character and he/she will begin acting franticly. See table below for random example actions they may take. You should create your own to fit your game or situation. Once you reach MH of -10, you are permanently insane (or dead). What has just occurred is too intense for you too handle and shall for ever walk the halls of madness (or at least an insane asylum). 1d100 1-10 - passes out for 1d4 minutes/hours/days 11-35 - goes delusional. Starts seeing things that aren't really there, unable to tell what is really happening and what is just their minds. (example, they might see more monsters, hear the cries of children, see worms crawling all over the walls, etc.) 36-45 - freeze with fear. Cannot move or take any action including talking. 46-60 - flees the scene/creature/danger as fast as possible in the shortest route possible (not necessarily the safest route) 61-70 - continues current action repeatedly with no break or pause or reason. (example, empties clip in gun and keeps pulling the trigger) 71-80 - event/creature become new worst fear. 81-85 - becomes manic and performs random actions that have no thought behind them 86-90 - seems fine, but becomes catatonic for 1d4 hour/days/weeks/months/or years 91-95 - passes out as above, but has amnesia from the event back 95-99 - attempts to kill themselves 100 - drops automatically to Mental Health of -10 Now, if you have any other insanity effects you would like to suggest I more than welcome suggestions. Now please do consider that if they should be generic (not time specific), I may add them and reconfigure the list above. I'd like to have 20-30 possible outcomes, but I'm only so creative before I run dry. Now, what I have above is playable in a standard d20 modern game, but you may run into a few things here and there. So I want to try and patch those few things here on this thread with help from you guys. Magic and Sanity Now, whether or not magic is in "normal" in your game or "unreal" is up to you, but there are a few spells that affect the mind. Here are some spells from the PHB that should require a sanity check just for the spell effect alone or should be considered. Another words, if spells aren't normal in your game, you may require a sanity check for seeing the spell and then again for the effect, or you may just bump up the damage by 1 or 2 types. Spell Name - Sanity Damage Baleful Polymorph - very unusual Cause Fear - Moderate Confusion - Unusual Doom - Moderate Fear - Heavy / Moderate on save Insanity - Unusual (causes same effect as confusion spell) Maze - Unbelievable Phantasmal killer - depends on who dies Raise/Create Dead - depends on how often you've seen said creature type. Scare - Heavy Summon Monster (any) - depends on what is summoned Symbol of fear - (same as fear spell) Weird - earth shattering (lots will die here) Other spells with effects such as Death effects - depends on who dies Dominate/controlling effect - very unusual Shaken effects - moderate
frasmage 07-23-07, 09:22 AM	nice to see my suggestion completely assimilated into the system so fast, though I think it might be better if it had a higher chance of occuring, say closer to 40%. as for the spell thing, I would say only check for sanity loss if they fail their will save (or if they get none). Otherwise some spells gain a huge amount of additional power. As you requested, here are some things the delusional might see: -the statues and portraits appear to turn their heads to watch the character -every time any creature or player is struck in combat, huge surges of blood seem to fly from the wounds -there appear to be more and more monsters joining combat each round -they notice something twisted in pictures/paintings that no one else does (ex: someone being murdered in the distance of a landscape) -blood drips slowly from the ceiling and walls -if the player falls to the floor, they find maggots squirming all around them. -cannot do anything but speak gibberish -can hear a voice calling their name and telling them to do things... -a foe appears identical to an ally -a foe appears identical to himself -an ally appears identical to a foe -mirrors show something twisted or weird (ex: the insane player sees what looks like a massive insect crawling around his head) -disemboweled creatures' body parts seem to grow little tendrils and walk around aimless on them. -every room appears filled with heavy fog thats enough for now :P more later. Some of them have game penalties, others can be used to further the plot or lead the players along. If you intend to lead them along, it would be best not to reveal the delusion right away. Wait a few hours until somewhere far from the source of insanity, in a different location. It adds more credibility to being able to confuse and lead them. one last thing, I was thinking, if you had someone with profession (psychiatrist) or something along those lines giving you aid as you rest, perhaps you could heal the sanity drain faster. Working in a way similar to the heal skill working on bedridden wounded. Thoughts?
Veonecris 07-23-07, 09:23 PM	I've been playtesting this system for DBX for a while now, it has worked pretty well so far... (Looks at Dragonbringer) :hides:
Raymond_Luxury_Yacht 07-24-07, 03:40 AM	I don't understand why you can't use the sanity system in the SRD.
DragonBringerX 07-24-07, 12:58 PM	I don't understand why you can't use the sanity system in the SRD. I can, but it's too Cthulu-like. :P I simply don't like it. Because there are no official rules for sanity, I figured I'd make my own. Besides, not everyone owns Unearthed Arcana, and not everyone should either. :D
Sandlphon 07-30-07, 10:29 AM	Looks good i will try it out. [the players should love this...] :plotting: :duel: :coolcthul :dice: :drool:
The Colonel 08-03-07, 06:37 PM	Being ressurected (if applicable) should probably be pretty hard on the sanity as well ... fantasy RPGs don't play this up nearly enough.
DragonBringerX 08-04-07, 02:48 AM	Being ressurected (if applicable) should probably be pretty hard on the sanity as well ... fantasy RPGs don't play this up nearly enough. never thought of that...hmm I imagine it would do unusual or very unusual damage. (man that would suck being resurrected only to loose your mind over it).
Ezram 08-04-07, 08:09 PM	Won't high Wisdom / Will save characters get some kind of resistance?
DragonBringerX 08-05-07, 03:01 AM	Won't high Wisdom / Will save characters get some kind of resistance? in this particular system...no. If you want to change it a little, i don't recommend it, but if you want to for yourself...feel free. This system works fine by its self though. :)
Ezram 08-05-07, 03:29 AM	I just find it odd that those with a strong will, sense of self and confidence are equally susceptible :confused:
DragonBringerX 08-06-07, 03:35 AM	usually I would agree with you here, but for simplicity sake, I dont want to. One of the main reasons is because of the such low number count. I mean were only dealing with numbers between -10 and 10. If you want to make it a little different, higher numbers, then by all means include a bonus for wisdom and high will. The point of this system is to be simple, adding that might make it a little too complex. If you have any ideas, im all ears (after all thats what this thread is about).
j0lt 08-10-07, 07:56 PM	I think it would work really well to go with a condition track system like SW Saga Edition and base it on Will vs fear effects. (each condition level mirrors one fear effect: shaken, panicked, cowering, etc...) You could have 2 levels of sanity damage: Minor & Major Minor sanity damage would move you 1 step down the condition track on a failed save. On a successful save, the character is unaffected. Major sanity damage would move you all the way to step 5 (unconsciousness) on a failed save, or one step on a successful save.
ArgulFraster 08-13-07, 04:21 PM	I think the system needs to be tailored by character; different people find different things scary. For me, nonhuman gore is just sort of neutral-but savaged human remains are disturbing. Likewise, the dead aren't really creepy except under the right circumstances. Anyone's brave with a fully loaded railgun-it takes being low on health and low on ammo/armor/weapons to really make me freak.
DragonBringerX 08-14-07, 02:16 AM	I think the system needs to be tailored by character; different people find different things scary. For me, nonhuman gore is just sort of neutral-but savaged human remains are disturbing. Likewise, the dead aren't really creepy except under the right circumstances. Anyone's brave with a fully loaded railgun-it takes being low on health and low on ammo/armor/weapons to really make me freak. this is why the rules on what requires a save are "flexible" or "vague". Its whatever the DM and/or player feel is a necessary save. For example, in my game the first time or two the players saw zombies...SANITY CHECK. but after that, i simply don't require it anymore unless they see a hoard of em. another thing I did was have each player write down some of their characters worst fears. Then again thats because I'm running a survival horror game.
Alurvelve 08-22-07, 11:51 PM	It's been a while since I read unearthed arcane, but does it have rules for sanity, and if so what page number is t on? I do like how you have yours set-up, but I do agree that someone with a high wisdom should be able to resist this better. Not sure if I am wanting a will save or just wisdom check, but i'll play with it some.
DragonBringerX 09-21-07, 08:21 PM	:bump:
JosephKell 09-21-07, 09:21 PM	I like what you have here, but it seems that there isn't a gradual process. You just go from positive to 0 (episodic) to constantly insane (-1 through -9). I do wish I saw it before I tried to make some insanity rules though.