shooting the sun. [Archive] - Wizards Community

shooting the sun. [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
DX2052
05-16-07, 05:22 PM What is the maximum possible range one can get a bow to fire to? I know farshot would be used for it's 1.5 range increase, the Arms and Equipment guide's arrows of flight and possibly CW's great long bow would also be useful, and I am also pretty sure that some book had a material called Dragon bone that would add 20 feat to the range of a bow made out of it (but I forget what one) but what else could be used to work to the goal of "shooting the sun".
Novabomb
05-16-07, 09:22 PM Erased for incorrectness.
Think0028
05-16-07, 09:33 PM IRC Craigtop Archer (RoW) Allows you to target anything you can see. Clearly the Sun should be visible during the day so....

Bzzt, it gives you 15 range increments. Distant Shot, the Epic feat, lets you target anything in sight. without penalty.
DX2052
05-17-07, 12:46 PM Bzzt, it gives you 15 range increments. Distant Shot, the Epic feat, lets you target anything in sight. without penalty.

Non epic please.
Think0028
05-18-07, 10:21 AM Non epic please.

Non-epic levels or no epic feats? Non-epic levels, the Dragonwrought Kobold can get epic feats. No epic feats, then you'll want:

1) Goliath
2) +1 Distance Dragonbone Composite Greatbow
3) 5 levels of Cragtop Archer
4) Far Shot (it's a prereq nonetheless)

There may be some other things that will improve it, but I can't think of them off the top of my head. Combined, you have a range increment of (130 (base) + 20 (dragonbone)) x 1.25 (Large) x 1.5 (Far Shot) x 2 (Distance) = 843.75 feet, rounds to 840. Cragtop Archer lets you fire 15 range increments, for 12,655 feet, rounded to the nearest 5 feet. For a total speed of Mach 2.8.
The Rizz
05-18-07, 05:40 PM Here is my current best build (cut & pasted from previous thread), although I have not seen Complete Champion yet, so there may be improvements available there...

Two points about the build:
1) I use one 3.0 class and one rule from a 3.0 book in this build. Both have not yet been updated, and generally it's considered that unupdated 3.0 material is usable in 3.5. This build assumes these two would be considered legal in 3.5 (which I see no reason to assume they're not).
2) This build uses Kerrenderit Arrows from Races of Faerun, which are made out of ice and will melt under hot conditions. I will do the calculations with both Kerrenderit Arrows and the not-quite-as-good Flight Arrows.
Wilder (XPH/SRD) 15 / Cragtop Archer (RoS) 3 / Deepwood Sniper (MotW) 2

Race: Goliath (RoS) or Half-Giant (XPH/SRD)

Feats:
Expanded Knowledge [Extend Range] (XPH/SRD)
Practiced Manifester (CPsi)
Far Shot (PHB/SRD)

Equipment:
Large Dragonbone (Drac) Composite Great Bow (CWar) of Distance (DMG/SRD)
Kerrenderit Arrows (FR:RoF) + some way to keep them frozen
Scroll of Accuracy (OA, CArc)
Scroll of Giant Size (CArc) @ 19th level
Scroll of Hawkeye (CAdv, SpC)
Scroll of Wind Tunnel (MotW, FR:Mag, SpC)
Torc of Power Preservation (XPH/SRD)

Note: For this to work, you need to have a high Use Magic Device in order to be able to use the 3 scrolls.

The computations:

Base Weapon:
Composite Greatbow (130 ft.) + Dragonbone (+20 ft.) + Kerrenderit Arrows (+25 ft.) = 175 ft. range increment
Size increase:
19th level Scroll of Giant Size = Colossal = 4 size increases
Large weapon (Goliath or Half-Giant) = 1 size increase
Each size increase = з1.25 range (A&EG, SavS)
175 ft. з 1.25^5 = ~534.06 ft.

Multipliers:
з1
з1 ...of Distance
з7 Extend Range - 25 psi points (15 Wilder + 5 Wild Surge + 4 Practiced Manifester + 1 Torc of Power Preservation)
зН Far Shot
з1 Scroll of Accuracy
зН Scroll of Hawkeye
з1 Scroll of Wind Tunnel
= з12 = ~6408.69 ft.

+ 20 ft. (Deepwood Sniper 2)
= ~6428.69 ft. (range increment is over a mile!)

[B]Maximum Range and speed (assuming 6 sec. flight time):
15 range increments (Cragtop Archer 3)
~6428.69 ft. x 15 = ~96,430 ft. (~18М miles) = ~14.2з the speed of sound.Totals:
Flight Arrows: ~93,684 ft. (~17О miles) = ~13.8з the speed of sound.
Kerrenderit Arrows: ~96,430 ft. (~18М miles) = ~14.2з the speed of sound.
DX2052
05-21-07, 04:25 AM exactly what I was looking for, that beets an M82 Barrett rifle in range AND Muzzle velocity.
epifreak
05-21-07, 11:48 PM Isn't there a way to get a kobold taking epic feats pre-epic? On a related note, what's the sun's AC?
Think0028
05-22-07, 12:02 AM Isn't there a way to get a kobold taking epic feats pre-epic? On a related note, what's the sun's AC?

Yeah, I mentioned it, the Dragonwrought Kobold. Basically, if you're an Old true dragon, you're allowed to take Epic feats. True dragons are defined as having 12 age categories and having the dragon type. Kobolds have 12 age categories in RotD, and the Dragonwrought feat gives them the Dragon type. Bang, you can take epic feats.'

And the sun has such a freakin' huge size category that it's AC is -100, at most.
fricot_1
05-25-07, 12:52 AM For the Kobolds, is that automatically qualify or what? I'm a little confused. Can't you normally take feats named 'Epic ____' if you have the prerequisites? or do you mean that when a feat requirement is "Epic-ness" they qualify? can you throw me an example?
I don't wan't to sound demanding, it's just I'm in the process of making a Kobold sorcerer.
Thanks
Think0028
05-25-07, 10:21 AM No problem. Any feat marked with [Epic] normally requires you have an epic number of hit dice (21 or more). Dragons have the exception that they could be old. So be an Old Kobold, take the Dragonwrought feat at 1st level. Then you qualify for epic feats normally. There are many good epic feats that have no requirements aside from being Epic, look at the SRD.
fricot_1
05-25-07, 03:23 PM This will most likely make people stop talking to me. But what does SRD stand for? It's on DandDwiki and stuff, but I don't know what it stands for.

So I just looked that up. Now, theres an epic feat with no prerequisites that lets me wear an extra magic item in a certain spot. Theoretically I would get all the bonuses from it.. so could I wear two +10 Mythral Full Plates? That would be enough encouragement to make a melee Kobold.
The_Mad_Linguist
05-25-07, 07:48 PM This will most likely make people stop talking to me. But what does SRD stand for? It's on DandDwiki and stuff, but I don't know what it stands for.

System Reference Document

(check out d20srd.org)
Think0028
05-26-07, 04:18 PM So I just looked that up. Now, theres an epic feat with no prerequisites that lets me wear an extra magic item in a certain spot. Theoretically I would get all the bonuses from it.. so could I wear two +10 Mythral Full Plates? That would be enough encouragement to make a melee Kobold.

No. Each gives an Armor bonus to AC, and Armor bonuses never stack. A +1 Fire Resistance Breastplate and a +1 Cold Resistance Breastplate would stack the resistances, but not the AC.
igotsmeakabob!!
05-28-07, 12:21 AM I wonder how much damage D&D's sun can take... think it has DR? Get some adamantine arrows to cut through it. Eventually you'll kill it! I think I just found the goal of an archery-based BBEG! Gathering components in order to SHOOT THE SUN TO DEATH WITH ARROWS.

"Take that you damned Sun! You killed my father, I'm going to get you before you can take me out!"
obrysii
06-30-07, 04:20 PM What about the great crossbow, with its range increment of 150ft?

150 (base) + 20 (dragonbone)) x 1.25 (Large) x 1.5 (Far Shot) x 2 (Distance) x 2 arrows of flight x 15 craigtop archer = 19,125ft
DrStalker
06-30-07, 10:44 PM Ultimately it would depend on how the GM decides to implement the sun; if it's a "realistic" sun, consising of a huge ball of plasma and a self-sustaining nuclear reaction it would be vulnerable to magic of the appropriate scale. If it's magical or divine in nature things may be harder... just because you can shoot the sun god in his chariot as he makes his daily voyage accross the sky doesn't mean it's a good idea to do so!
warwinner
07-01-07, 08:17 AM What about the rotation and revolution of the planet around the sun, if the sun moves or "drowns in the sea", day-night cycle, if the arrow gets impeded by something on it's way [it's not a space-shuttle after all], if the sun moves position by the time the arrow reaches the place where it originally was when you aimed etc
Or is it a stationary sun and you are standing on a stationary planet with no other factors other than the distance between the two of importance, or are there other important factors
The_Mad_Linguist
07-01-07, 01:11 PM What about the rotation and revolution of the planet around the sun, if the sun moves or "drowns in the sea", day-night cycle, if the arrow gets impeded by something on it's way [it's not a space-shuttle after all], if the sun moves position by the time the arrow reaches the place where it originally was when you aimed etc
Or is it a stationary sun and you are standing on a stationary planet with no other factors other than the distance between the two of importance, or are there other important factors

I don't think six seconds of difference is enough to worry about. Especially since the sun's going to be sucking your arrow towards it.
_V_
07-01-07, 01:18 PM What about the rotation and revolution of the planet around the sun, if the sun moves or "drowns in the sea", day-night cycle, if the arrow gets impeded by something on it's way [it's not a space-shuttle after all], if the sun moves position by the time the arrow reaches the place where it originally was when you aimed etc
I don't think six seconds of difference is enough to worry about.
Whether the world has a concept of "speed of light", and therefore the time it takes for light to reach the archer, might be relevant and whether aiming takes that into account.

Especially since the sun's going to be sucking your arrow towards it.
Good point.
The_Mad_Linguist
07-01-07, 04:01 PM Whether the world has a concept of "speed of light", and therefore the time it takes for light to reach the archer, might be relevant and whether aiming takes that into account.

There can't be a speed of light because teleportation of distances greater than six light seconds is possible.
_V_
07-01-07, 05:07 PM There can't be a speed of light because teleportation of distances greater than six light seconds is possible.
Because nothing can travel faster than the speed of light? I think the concept of lightspeed can be introduced without that limitation.
Besides, why should magic adhere to the "laws of physics".
Djief
07-01-07, 07:03 PM There can't be a speed of light because teleportation of distances greater than six light seconds is possible.

teleportation is instantenous anyway, statisticly it takes 0 second. I doubt you can't include that in any calculation of speed.
Callix
07-07-07, 07:03 AM 1. By covering a distance without passing through the intervening space, teleportation gives you an average speed > c, but instantaneous speeds all < c. The Displacement/Time graph is discontinuous.

2. Anyone considered the effect of firing a projectile at 14x the speed of sound? Terminal velocity is less than Mach 1, and deals 20d6 damage. Firing a bow at those ranges involves similar times and forces over 14 times greater. Thus the damage must be larger, at leat 200d6. Allow for hardness. Even adamantine arrows would shatter when fired.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
DX2052 05-16-07, 05:22 PM	What is the maximum possible range one can get a bow to fire to? I know farshot would be used for it's 1.5 range increase, the Arms and Equipment guide's arrows of flight and possibly CW's great long bow would also be useful, and I am also pretty sure that some book had a material called Dragon bone that would add 20 feat to the range of a bow made out of it (but I forget what one) but what else could be used to work to the goal of "shooting the sun".
Novabomb 05-16-07, 09:22 PM	Erased for incorrectness.
Think0028 05-16-07, 09:33 PM	IRC Craigtop Archer (RoW) Allows you to target anything you can see. Clearly the Sun should be visible during the day so.... Bzzt, it gives you 15 range increments. Distant Shot, the Epic feat, lets you target anything in sight. without penalty.
DX2052 05-17-07, 12:46 PM	Bzzt, it gives you 15 range increments. Distant Shot, the Epic feat, lets you target anything in sight. without penalty. Non epic please.
Think0028 05-18-07, 10:21 AM	Non epic please. Non-epic levels or no epic feats? Non-epic levels, the Dragonwrought Kobold can get epic feats. No epic feats, then you'll want: 1) Goliath 2) +1 Distance Dragonbone Composite Greatbow 3) 5 levels of Cragtop Archer 4) Far Shot (it's a prereq nonetheless) There may be some other things that will improve it, but I can't think of them off the top of my head. Combined, you have a range increment of (130 (base) + 20 (dragonbone)) x 1.25 (Large) x 1.5 (Far Shot) x 2 (Distance) = 843.75 feet, rounds to 840. Cragtop Archer lets you fire 15 range increments, for 12,655 feet, rounded to the nearest 5 feet. For a total speed of Mach 2.8.
The Rizz 05-18-07, 05:40 PM	Here is my current best build (cut & pasted from previous thread), although I have not seen Complete Champion yet, so there may be improvements available there... Two points about the build: 1) I use one 3.0 class and one rule from a 3.0 book in this build. Both have not yet been updated, and generally it's considered that unupdated 3.0 material is usable in 3.5. This build assumes these two would be considered legal in 3.5 (which I see no reason to assume they're not). 2) This build uses Kerrenderit Arrows from Races of Faerun, which are made out of ice and will melt under hot conditions. I will do the calculations with both Kerrenderit Arrows and the not-quite-as-good Flight Arrows. Wilder (XPH/SRD) 15 / Cragtop Archer (RoS) 3 / Deepwood Sniper (MotW) 2 Race: Goliath (RoS) or Half-Giant (XPH/SRD) Feats: Expanded Knowledge [Extend Range] (XPH/SRD) Practiced Manifester (CPsi) Far Shot (PHB/SRD) Equipment: Large Dragonbone (Drac) Composite Great Bow (CWar) of Distance (DMG/SRD) Kerrenderit Arrows (FR:RoF) + some way to keep them frozen Scroll of Accuracy (OA, CArc) Scroll of Giant Size (CArc) @ 19th level Scroll of Hawkeye (CAdv, SpC) Scroll of Wind Tunnel (MotW, FR:Mag, SpC) Torc of Power Preservation (XPH/SRD) Note: For this to work, you need to have a high Use Magic Device in order to be able to use the 3 scrolls. The computations: Base Weapon: Composite Greatbow (130 ft.) + Dragonbone (+20 ft.) + Kerrenderit Arrows (+25 ft.) = 175 ft. range increment Size increase: 19th level Scroll of Giant Size = Colossal = 4 size increases Large weapon (Goliath or Half-Giant) = 1 size increase Each size increase = з1.25 range (A&EG, SavS) 175 ft. з 1.25^5 = ~534.06 ft. Multipliers: з1 з1 ...of Distance з7 Extend Range - 25 psi points (15 Wilder + 5 Wild Surge + 4 Practiced Manifester + 1 Torc of Power Preservation) зН Far Shot з1 Scroll of Accuracy зН Scroll of Hawkeye з1 Scroll of Wind Tunnel = з12 = ~6408.69 ft. + 20 ft. (Deepwood Sniper 2) = ~6428.69 ft. (range increment is over a mile!) [B]Maximum Range and speed (assuming 6 sec. flight time): 15 range increments (Cragtop Archer 3) ~6428.69 ft. x 15 = ~96,430 ft. (~18М miles) = ~14.2з the speed of sound.Totals: Flight Arrows: ~93,684 ft. (~17О miles) = ~13.8з the speed of sound. Kerrenderit Arrows: ~96,430 ft. (~18М miles) = ~14.2з the speed of sound.
DX2052 05-21-07, 04:25 AM	exactly what I was looking for, that beets an M82 Barrett rifle in range AND Muzzle velocity.
epifreak 05-21-07, 11:48 PM	Isn't there a way to get a kobold taking epic feats pre-epic? On a related note, what's the sun's AC?
Think0028 05-22-07, 12:02 AM	Isn't there a way to get a kobold taking epic feats pre-epic? On a related note, what's the sun's AC? Yeah, I mentioned it, the Dragonwrought Kobold. Basically, if you're an Old true dragon, you're allowed to take Epic feats. True dragons are defined as having 12 age categories and having the dragon type. Kobolds have 12 age categories in RotD, and the Dragonwrought feat gives them the Dragon type. Bang, you can take epic feats.' And the sun has such a freakin' huge size category that it's AC is -100, at most.
fricot_1 05-25-07, 12:52 AM	For the Kobolds, is that automatically qualify or what? I'm a little confused. Can't you normally take feats named 'Epic ____' if you have the prerequisites? or do you mean that when a feat requirement is "Epic-ness" they qualify? can you throw me an example? I don't wan't to sound demanding, it's just I'm in the process of making a Kobold sorcerer. Thanks
Think0028 05-25-07, 10:21 AM	No problem. Any feat marked with [Epic] normally requires you have an epic number of hit dice (21 or more). Dragons have the exception that they could be old. So be an Old Kobold, take the Dragonwrought feat at 1st level. Then you qualify for epic feats normally. There are many good epic feats that have no requirements aside from being Epic, look at the SRD.
fricot_1 05-25-07, 03:23 PM	This will most likely make people stop talking to me. But what does SRD stand for? It's on DandDwiki and stuff, but I don't know what it stands for. So I just looked that up. Now, theres an epic feat with no prerequisites that lets me wear an extra magic item in a certain spot. Theoretically I would get all the bonuses from it.. so could I wear two +10 Mythral Full Plates? That would be enough encouragement to make a melee Kobold.
The_Mad_Linguist 05-25-07, 07:48 PM	This will most likely make people stop talking to me. But what does SRD stand for? It's on DandDwiki and stuff, but I don't know what it stands for. System Reference Document (check out d20srd.org)
Think0028 05-26-07, 04:18 PM	So I just looked that up. Now, theres an epic feat with no prerequisites that lets me wear an extra magic item in a certain spot. Theoretically I would get all the bonuses from it.. so could I wear two +10 Mythral Full Plates? That would be enough encouragement to make a melee Kobold. No. Each gives an Armor bonus to AC, and Armor bonuses never stack. A +1 Fire Resistance Breastplate and a +1 Cold Resistance Breastplate would stack the resistances, but not the AC.
igotsmeakabob!! 05-28-07, 12:21 AM	I wonder how much damage D&D's sun can take... think it has DR? Get some adamantine arrows to cut through it. Eventually you'll kill it! I think I just found the goal of an archery-based BBEG! Gathering components in order to SHOOT THE SUN TO DEATH WITH ARROWS. "Take that you damned Sun! You killed my father, I'm going to get you before you can take me out!"
obrysii 06-30-07, 04:20 PM	What about the great crossbow, with its range increment of 150ft? 150 (base) + 20 (dragonbone)) x 1.25 (Large) x 1.5 (Far Shot) x 2 (Distance) x 2 arrows of flight x 15 craigtop archer = 19,125ft
DrStalker 06-30-07, 10:44 PM	Ultimately it would depend on how the GM decides to implement the sun; if it's a "realistic" sun, consising of a huge ball of plasma and a self-sustaining nuclear reaction it would be vulnerable to magic of the appropriate scale. If it's magical or divine in nature things may be harder... just because you can shoot the sun god in his chariot as he makes his daily voyage accross the sky doesn't mean it's a good idea to do so!
warwinner 07-01-07, 08:17 AM	What about the rotation and revolution of the planet around the sun, if the sun moves or "drowns in the sea", day-night cycle, if the arrow gets impeded by something on it's way [it's not a space-shuttle after all], if the sun moves position by the time the arrow reaches the place where it originally was when you aimed etc Or is it a stationary sun and you are standing on a stationary planet with no other factors other than the distance between the two of importance, or are there other important factors
The_Mad_Linguist 07-01-07, 01:11 PM	What about the rotation and revolution of the planet around the sun, if the sun moves or "drowns in the sea", day-night cycle, if the arrow gets impeded by something on it's way [it's not a space-shuttle after all], if the sun moves position by the time the arrow reaches the place where it originally was when you aimed etc Or is it a stationary sun and you are standing on a stationary planet with no other factors other than the distance between the two of importance, or are there other important factors I don't think six seconds of difference is enough to worry about. Especially since the sun's going to be sucking your arrow towards it.
_V_ 07-01-07, 01:18 PM	What about the rotation and revolution of the planet around the sun, if the sun moves or "drowns in the sea", day-night cycle, if the arrow gets impeded by something on it's way [it's not a space-shuttle after all], if the sun moves position by the time the arrow reaches the place where it originally was when you aimed etc I don't think six seconds of difference is enough to worry about. Whether the world has a concept of "speed of light", and therefore the time it takes for light to reach the archer, might be relevant and whether aiming takes that into account. Especially since the sun's going to be sucking your arrow towards it. Good point.
The_Mad_Linguist 07-01-07, 04:01 PM	Whether the world has a concept of "speed of light", and therefore the time it takes for light to reach the archer, might be relevant and whether aiming takes that into account. There can't be a speed of light because teleportation of distances greater than six light seconds is possible.
_V_ 07-01-07, 05:07 PM	There can't be a speed of light because teleportation of distances greater than six light seconds is possible. Because nothing can travel faster than the speed of light? I think the concept of lightspeed can be introduced without that limitation. Besides, why should magic adhere to the "laws of physics".
Djief 07-01-07, 07:03 PM	There can't be a speed of light because teleportation of distances greater than six light seconds is possible. teleportation is instantenous anyway, statisticly it takes 0 second. I doubt you can't include that in any calculation of speed.
Callix 07-07-07, 07:03 AM	1. By covering a distance without passing through the intervening space, teleportation gives you an average speed > c, but instantaneous speeds all < c. The Displacement/Time graph is discontinuous. 2. Anyone considered the effect of firing a projectile at 14x the speed of sound? Terminal velocity is less than Mach 1, and deals 20d6 damage. Firing a bow at those ranges involves similar times and forces over 14 times greater. Thus the damage must be larger, at leat 200d6. Allow for hardness. Even adamantine arrows would shatter when fired.