Small man, big fists. [Archive] - Wizards Community

Small man, big fists. [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
NovaX81
08-23-07, 10:03 PM I've never really tried any (real) optimization before, so it's quite likely that I'm missing some vital rule here, but I think I found something fun with a little item manipulation.

Necklace of Natural Weapons: The enhancement bonuses on this necklace are applied to attack and damage rolls involving one or more of the wearer's natural weapons. In addition, any weapon special quality may be applied to this necklace, and the quality then applies to those natural weapons as well. For instance, a +1 throwing returning necklace of natural weapons would apply its enhancement bonus and the throwing and returning special abilities to one or more of the wearer's natural weapons.

As stated in the PHB, a monk's unarmed strikes are natural attacks. Thus, the necklace would allow you to add enhancement bonuses directly to one or more parts of the monk's body, based on how much you're willing to pay. For now, let's assume you get it on only one fist.

Hence, let us buy a +1 Dancing Sizing Necklace of Natural Weapons. Dancing from the DMG, Sizing from MIC pg 43. By this methodology, you could make a Colossal Fist float in the air fighting for you. As per the text on Dancing weapons, you are not considered armed with the weapon, and thus would not take the penalty for the size. It's possibly debatable that you would anyway, considering that you do not "wield" unarmed strikes. At the end of your fourth round, you could simply use another swift action to return it to normal size, and resume the dancing beatdown 4 rounds later.

If this actually works, it could be an interesting way to deal rather large sized damage without taking the AC and situational (RPing, fitting in doors...) penalties of being that large. Am I missing something basic here? Likely. But if it works, I might have fun with a build that uses this ^^...
cog_n_taz
08-23-07, 11:15 PM Combine this with multiattack and the warshaper trick to get NI natural weapons, and we have a winner!
NovaX81
09-10-07, 03:18 PM Combine this with multiattack and the warshaper trick to get NI natural weapons, and we have a winner!
Perhaps. A few of the other players/DMs I know said it seemed fairly valid (albeit complete cheese), but I'm still concerned about the conditions of "wielding" weapons that large, even if they are natural. Maybe the rules compendium will have more data on how natural weapons are handled in specific-body-part sizing/effects/etc conditions.
WombleHunter
09-10-07, 09:28 PM You could, I assume, do something similar with Kensai?

Also you could do this with your head.
JaronK
09-10-07, 11:54 PM Wait, does this require that your hand detatch from your body and go smack people?

JaronK
WombleHunter
09-11-07, 08:01 AM Yes.

Since all parts of a Monk's body are considered weapons for the purposes of their unarmed strikes, a Monk/Kensai or Monk using this amulet can have Dancing bodyparts, or bodyparts of Throwing but not Returning.

"You see a group of goblins dressed in orange robes. They notice you, raise the alarm, and... make seventeen Fortitude saves vs Stunning Wangs."

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
NovaX81 08-23-07, 10:03 PM	I've never really tried any (real) optimization before, so it's quite likely that I'm missing some vital rule here, but I think I found something fun with a little item manipulation. Necklace of Natural Weapons: The enhancement bonuses on this necklace are applied to attack and damage rolls involving one or more of the wearer's natural weapons. In addition, any weapon special quality may be applied to this necklace, and the quality then applies to those natural weapons as well. For instance, a +1 throwing returning necklace of natural weapons would apply its enhancement bonus and the throwing and returning special abilities to one or more of the wearer's natural weapons. As stated in the PHB, a monk's unarmed strikes are natural attacks. Thus, the necklace would allow you to add enhancement bonuses directly to one or more parts of the monk's body, based on how much you're willing to pay. For now, let's assume you get it on only one fist. Hence, let us buy a +1 Dancing Sizing Necklace of Natural Weapons. Dancing from the DMG, Sizing from MIC pg 43. By this methodology, you could make a Colossal Fist float in the air fighting for you. As per the text on Dancing weapons, you are not considered armed with the weapon, and thus would not take the penalty for the size. It's possibly debatable that you would anyway, considering that you do not "wield" unarmed strikes. At the end of your fourth round, you could simply use another swift action to return it to normal size, and resume the dancing beatdown 4 rounds later. If this actually works, it could be an interesting way to deal rather large sized damage without taking the AC and situational (RPing, fitting in doors...) penalties of being that large. Am I missing something basic here? Likely. But if it works, I might have fun with a build that uses this ^^...
cog_n_taz 08-23-07, 11:15 PM	Combine this with multiattack and the warshaper trick to get NI natural weapons, and we have a winner!
NovaX81 09-10-07, 03:18 PM	Combine this with multiattack and the warshaper trick to get NI natural weapons, and we have a winner! Perhaps. A few of the other players/DMs I know said it seemed fairly valid (albeit complete cheese), but I'm still concerned about the conditions of "wielding" weapons that large, even if they are natural. Maybe the rules compendium will have more data on how natural weapons are handled in specific-body-part sizing/effects/etc conditions.
WombleHunter 09-10-07, 09:28 PM	You could, I assume, do something similar with Kensai? Also you could do this with your head.
JaronK 09-10-07, 11:54 PM	Wait, does this require that your hand detatch from your body and go smack people? JaronK
WombleHunter 09-11-07, 08:01 AM	Yes. Since all parts of a Monk's body are considered weapons for the purposes of their unarmed strikes, a Monk/Kensai or Monk using this amulet can have Dancing bodyparts, or bodyparts of Throwing but not Returning. "You see a group of goblins dressed in orange robes. They notice you, raise the alarm, and... make seventeen Fortitude saves vs Stunning Wangs."