Post/Author/DateTime	Post
hawaiianbrian 04-02-07, 01:36 AM	Six-Second Rounds and Actions The purpose of this house rule is to experiment with a system which gets rid of “standard,” “full,” “partial,” “free,” and “swift” actions, replacing them with a more intuitive system where certain actions take a number of seconds, and each player has 6 seconds in which to perform those actions. Devotees to Dungeons & Dragons, and the d20 system in general, will likely find some of these rules a serious departure from the “standard” rules set they are accustomed to. To some extent, this is intentional. I’ve designed these rules to thin out some of the heavy-handed rules which turn every combat into a miniatures battle, with such an emphasis on tactics. My goal has been to create something quicker, easier, and simpler. The Basics All participants in combat, PC and NPC alike, have 6 seconds’ worth of actions they make take during their portion of the round. Initiative remains unchanged, yet the round is not as divided into discrete blocks, since characters may elect to leave “unspent” part of their round until later (in other words, does not spend them all on actions but leaves some undesignated). Once a character’s turn arrives, he or she is allotted six seconds with which to perform actions. Characters do not need to use all of their actions at once -- any that are left “open” can be used at any time during the rest of the inititive cycle until their next turn. Seconds which are not used do not “roll over.” They are lost at the beginning of the character’s next turn. One of the most notable changes this system brings is to Attacks of Opportunity as they are presented in the SRD. A character who has at a second left over in their round can use it at any time to attack an enemy within their range. Similarly, they can cast a spell or take any other action that uses some or all of their remaining unspent seconds. If a character is attacked and has at least one unspent second remaining from their last turn, they may perform one of several defense moves: parry, block, and avoid. These will be detailed in the Combat section, below. Combat The most fundamental change this system introduces is to combat. Attacks with a single weapon expend a number of seconds based on the size of the weapon. Naturally, heavier weapons take longer to swing, and the time needed to recover from a swing only adds to this. Lighter weapons are swift in comparison. A character wielding a light weapon can attack one time in 1 second. A character wielding a one-handed weapon can make one attack in 2 seconds, and a character wielding a two-handed weapon can make one attack in 3 seconds. Using a shield to bash is the same as attacking with an off-hand weapon, though the shield’s size determines how many seconds it takes to bash an opponent with it. In general, bucklers and light shields take 1 second, heavy shields take 2 seconds, and tower shields take 3 seconds. For more information on fighting with two weapons, see below. Ranged weapons break down a little differently, because they most often must be both drawn and fired (or thrown) in the same round. Crossbows are pretty slow. It takes only 1 second to fire a loaded crossbow, but it takes 3 seconds to load a light crossbow or hand crossbow, and 6 seconds to load a heavy crossbow or repeating crossbow (but once a repeating crossbow is loaded, it can be fired at a rate of 1 shot per second). Bows are faster than crossbows, requiring 2 seconds to nock an arrow, and 1 second to fire a nocked arrow (for a total of 3 seconds per arrow, though a character ready for trouble can save some time by pre-nocking an arrow). Throwing something held in the hand also requires only 1 second, but drawing it takes 2 seconds. The only exception to this last rule are shuriken, which can be thrown together. The attacker can effectively throw up to 4 shuriken from one hand as a single 1 second action, though the attacker suffers a -1 cumulative penalty for every additional shuriken, and each shuriken uses the same attack roll. Iterative attacks (that is, extra attacks taken in a round) impose a cumulative -5 penalty per attack. The first attack, therefore, is at the character’s full base attack bonus, while the next one (should they have enough seconds left to do so) would be at -5, then the third at -10, the fourth at -15, and so on. There is no limit to how many times a character can attack per round as long as they do not spend more seconds than they have at their disposal. This will make light weapons and fists very fast, with the wielder able to attack up to 6 times a round. While this might sound overly powerful, consider that the sixth attack would be at a -25 penalty, and light weapons generally do not do as much damage as larger ones. This -5 iterative attack penalty applies to ranged weapons as well. These penalties can be partially mitigated by two-weapon fighting and multishot feats (see below). Fighting with two weapons, or with double-ended weapons, changes a bit as well. A character attacking with an off-hand weapon (or a shield used to bash an opponent) still suffers the two-handed weapon penalties mentioned in the SRD or Player’s Handbook. But they are allowed to make a single attack with their off-hand weapon that takes place at any time in the round and costs zero seconds. This attack is essentially free because it takes place during other actions, and does not count toward the 6 seconds the character normally can spend a round. It uses the character’s highest attack bonus, though as usual two-weapon penalties do apply to this and all other attacks. The rules on subsequent attacks given above do not apply to off-hand weapons -- attacking more than once per round with an off-hand weapon requires the Improved Two-Weapon Fighting feat or Greater Two-Weapon Fighting feat. Example: a fighter with the feats Two-Weapon Fighting, Improved Two-Weapon Fighting, and Greater Two-Weapon Fighting, and who is wielding two long swords, may make three attacks with his primary hand (because a long sword takes 2 seconds to swing) and three attacks with his off-hand. He will be at -4 for attack with each hand because his off-hand weapon is not light. The first attack with his primary hand will be at his highest attack bonus -4, then -9 for the next attack, then -14 for the third (because subsequent attacks are at cumulative -5 penalties). His attacks with his off-hand weapon will follow an identical progression but will not use up his normal 6 seconds. Natural weapons are considered light weapons and take 1 second per attack. The same -4 penalty applies to unarmed attacks made by those without the unarmed proficiency feat, though attacking without a weapon no longer provokes an Attack of Opportunity. Grappling becomes a little easier without Attacks of Opportunity, though it takes 3 seconds to grab and attempt to hold an opponent. This leaves 3 more seconds for the successful grappler to attempt a pin or make attacks. It is possible to attack while moving past someone by taking a -2 penalty to the attack, though damage is increased by +2. If a character has at least one second left over from their round, they may perform a defense move. Defense comes in three types: parry, block and counter. To parry, a character must have a weapon in at least one hand. He gains a plus to his AC depending on the size of his weapon (small or tiny = +1, medium = +2, large and up= +3). To block, a character must have a shield, or other servicable object, in her hand. She gains a plus to her AC depending on the size of the object (use the same sizes used for parrying). Lastly, avoiding an attack gains an unarmed character +1 to their AC. This stacks with the dodge feat. Naturally, this system is going to change some feats. These will be discussed at greater length in their own section below, but it is important to note that attacking times and loading times can be shortened in some circumstances with select feats. Movement A new Movement Rate has been implemented to coincide with the new second-by-second combat round. Every character has a rate, read in 5-foot-squares per round, that indicates the maximum distance they can travel in one second. Thus, a normal human who has a movement rate of 30 by the original D&D 3.5 rules now can move up to 4 squares each second of their turn. Dwarves and halflings, and other creatures with lesser movement rates, can move fewer squares per 1 second interval, and monks or other creatures with faster rates can move more squares per 1 second interval. These rates are maximums, so a player has an option to move less than the noted rate per second, should they choose to do so. Thus, even though a human fighter might be able to cover 4 squares in one second, he may elect to move 3 instead, with no penalty. However, for each second of travel the character may only move in one direction, and take no other action. The path taken by a moving character must be expressed on the game board as a straight line, to begin where the character began movement and end at (or up to) their maximum distance away. Characters wishing to zig-zag through barriers or other obstacles, like other characters, cannot simply thread their movement around said obstacles but must instead break down their turns in discrete units per second. For example, Dirk the human rogue has a movement of 4 squares per second. He is attempting to weave through a field full of combatants with small gaps between them. To do so, he will need to choose an initial direction and move up to 4 squares in that direction in his first second of movement. In the next second, he changes direction and can move up to 4 more squares in that new direction. In his third second, he changes direction again, moving 4 more, and so on. By the time 6 seconds has elapsed, he will have covered a possible total of 24 squares, like normal, but still not terribly far from where he began. One single five-foot step is still free, yet still does not “overlap” with other movement. For characters or monsters with different move rates, consult the following table. Movement Rate______________Squares covered in one second 10 or less.........................1 15.........................2 20.........................3 30.........................4 40.........................5 50.........................7 60.........................8 70.........................9 80.........................11 90.........................12 every +10.........................+1.3, rounded off These movement rates are subject to terrain penalties (and possibly bonuses, like moving downhill). In general, rates given in the Dungeon Master’s Guide regarding movement penalties for terrain still apply as given. Magic Note: In my campaign we’re playing with the True Sorcery rules, presented by Green Ronin. The rules below are designed for use with the SRD magic system for Dungeons and Dragons. I am not a fan of “slot-based” magic for a number of reasons that I won’t mention here, thus these rules will not be play-tested and so are to be considered theoretical. That said, I don’t see any reason why they wouldn’t work as stated. The only significant differences this system introduces come in the form of casting times and attacks of opportunity. A spell that is listed as having a casting time of “free action” takes 0 seconds to cast, and can be done at any time in the round sequence, even if the character has no unspent seconds left from their previous turn. A spell that lists a casting time of “swift action” takes 1 second to cast, and so cannot be cast unless the spellcaster has at least 1 second available to them in the current round. A spell that lists a casting time of “standard action” takes 3 seconds to cast, while a spell that lists a casting time of “full action” takes 6 seconds to cast. Some spells may take longer than this, though usually such spells take such a long time to cast that they can’t be used during combat anyway. Countering a spell uses as many seconds as the spell being countered. Casting a spell no longer provokes an attack of opportunity, since AoO rules are not used in this system. However, the standard rules concerning concentration checks to cast after the spellcaster has suffered damage do still apply. Other Actions There are a host of other possible actions a character may elect to take in any given round, from opening doors to drinking potions, shouting commands to casting spells. Many of these actions are already designated in the Player’s Handbook. In general: • Anything listed as taking a “free action” requires 0 seconds • Anything listed as taking an “immediate action” requires 1 second • Anything listed as taking a “swift action” requires 2 second • Anything listed as taking a “move action” requires 3 seconds • Anything listed as taking a “standard action” also requires 3 seconds, and • Anything listed as taking a “full-round action” requires 6 seconds. Other actions not listed require a number of seconds to be determined by the DM. Keep in mind that some actions may take more than 6 seconds to accomplish, and stopping midway may very well result in failure or incompletion. Speaking is considered a free action, but no more than (approximately) five words can be spoken in a second, so placing a “cap” of 30 words spoken in one round is quite reasonable. Effect on Class Abilities, Etc. Any class ability, spell-like ability, supernatural ability, or the like is subject to these rules. For activation times, see the common chart above. The monk flurry of blows class ability sees some changes in this system. It is, essentially, two-weapon fighting done with natural attack, which are always light weapons. However, monks are considered to have the two-weapon fighting feat when using their fists. Unlike the standard rules, the penalties monks take to do multiple attack through flurry of blows does not decrease with level progression, instead remaining at -2. Modified Feats Many feats, both in the Player’s Handbook and in other sources, will be changed by introducing this system. That is to be anticipated. DMs who still prefer to use the attacks of opportunity rule will probably find that far fewer feats have to be changed or eliminated. Whether or not to continue using them is a personal choice, though my reasons for excluding them are the same as for changing the system in the first place: to create a more fluid, almost “cinematic” gaming experience that relies less on battlefield tactics and more on creative selection of actions. These rules still function fine with attacks of opportunity, but change the “tone” so that attacks of opportunity seem a more of a penalty and encumbrance. So many feats exist in published books, and more are being created every day, so that an exhaustive list would be impossible. Arguably, too many exist already. But the goal of this document is to address feats from the SRD or Player’s Handbook which find significant modification with the above rules. Here they are, along with suggested “fixes.” (DMs still planning to use AoO may ignore some of these modifications.) • Improved Feint: Instead of requiring a move action, feinting now takes as much time as one normal attack, depending on the type of weapon. Thus, light weapons are quick and easy to feint with, and doing so takes 1 second, while a longsword would take 2 seconds to perform a feint. • Whirlwind Attack: Requires 6 seconds; everything else is the same. • Combat Reflexes: Reduces one attack per round by 1 second. Thus, by using this feat a person attacking with a longsword would only spend 1 second on their first attack, though any subsequent attacks would still require 2. The player may spend this second any way they see fit. • Mobility: +1 AC while moving more than 5-foot-step. • Spring Attack: Suffer no penalty for attacking while moving. • Deflect Arrows: Deflecting an arrow takes 1 second. Unlike the SRD version of this feat, you may deflect more than one arrow a round, though each still takes 1 second, and you must have enough unused seconds left over to use this feat. You can deflect any ranged weapon with this feat. • Snatch Arrows: Same as Deflect Arrows, but you now hold the arrow or ranged weapon. • Rapid Shot: Reduces the time to nock a bow or draw a thrown weapon by 1 second. Thus, one bow shot will only take 2 seconds to complete. • Manyshot: Same as listed in the SRD, but cannot be used in conjuntion with Rapid Shot. Each arrow nocked at once results in a cumulative -2 penalty, as usual. • Shot on the Run: Suffer no penalty for firing or throwing a ranged weapon while moving. • Quick Draw: Reduce the amount of time it takes to draw a weapon from 3 seconds to zero. • Run: Add 1 square to movement maximum per round • Two-Weapon Fighting: You may make a single attack with an off-hand weapon which does not count against your 6 seconds available during a round. This attack is done at the penalties given in the Player’s Handbook. • Two-Weapon Defense: You gain +1 bonus to parry attempts when using two weapons. • Improved Two-Weapon Fighting: You make an additional single attack with an off-hand weapon which does not count against your 6 seconds available during a round. • Greater Two-Weapon Fighting: You can make a third attack with an off-hand weapon, as long as your first two attacks with the off-hand weapon would not take more than 6 seconds. This means, under most circumstances, heavy weapons cannot be used with greater two-weapon fighting. --- I'm not sure how much traffic these boards get, but I thought I'd present this and see if anyone has any constructive criticism and/or suggestions on how to improve it, or warnings about problems that may arise.
Cyber-Dave 04-03-07, 12:10 AM	While I am not a big fan of the other set of rules I saw you put out, I actually like these quite a bit. I think I would still include the attacks of opportunity, and maybe say that an attack made as an attack of opportunity costs 1 second less then it normally would, but otherwise I like them. Out of curiosity, if you include guns, how long would an attack with a gun take? It seems to me that a gun with an attack rate of 1 would cost 3 seconds, an attack listed as single would cost 2 seconds, and an attack listed as semi-automatic or automatic would cost 1 second. How about burst fires and auto-fires though? Would those be 2 seconds each? And what about Double-Taps? I assume they would still be about 1 second? Also, based on the nature of your system, I think it might be more fun if during a round you traveled from player to player from each second. IE: Instead of everyone performing all 6 seconds at once, they would perform them in order of the second used (though initiative would remain the same). For example, if there are three characters (lets call them A, B, C) who will move in order A, B, C, then the round would go as follows. What do you do A? I move for 1 second. B? knock a bow. C? I will guard B. Then the next second goes, but B would not be able to move for that second as he is still knocking the bow (unless he gives up on the knocking process) to perform a different 1 second action). Everyone else would do what they do. Etc, etc, etc. One other thing I would suggest, get rid of the whole round thing completely. Instead, make it so that each time you attack you add a -5 penalty to your next attack with the same weapon. In order to get rid of this penalty, you must rest for a number of seconds equal to the time it took you to make your last attack with that weapon. So, for example, if you were attacking with a large weapon the first attack gets a -5, the next attack gets a -10, the next attack after that -15, and if you want to drop the number back down to 0 you have to rest for 3 seconds. I think I might actually play-test these rules...
Cyber-Dave 04-03-07, 02:11 AM	Ok, well, I went over your system and modified it to my tastes, and this is what I came up with: Seconds Instead of Rounds and Actions The Basics Rounds are removed. Instead, action takes place in seconds. Initiative remains unchanged, and marks your order of action within your given second. A character that uses an action that takes longer then a second spends a number of future seconds to perform said action. He may not take any other actions during those pre-spent seconds. Some actions that require pre-spent seconds have their effect occur at the end of the spent seconds, and others have their effect occur at the beginning of the spent seconds. Combat The most fundamental change this system introduces is to combat. Attacks with a single weapon expend a number of seconds based on the size of the weapon. Naturally, heavier weapons take longer to swing, and the time needed to recover from a swing only adds to this. Lighter weapons are swift in comparison. Time Spent on Melee Attacks A character making a melee attack spends a certain amount of time on the attack depending on the weapons size. Weapon Size Seconds Spent Diminutive-Tiny 1 Small-Medium 2 Large-Huge 3 Gargantuan-Colossal 4 Using a shield to bash is the same as attacking with an off-hand weapon (see bellow), though the shield’s size determines how many seconds it takes to bash an opponent with it. A character makes an attack roll, and deals damage, during the first second of an attack. But a character may not perform any future actions during subsequent seconds until the full allotment of seconds used for the attack is spent. Time Spent on Ranged Attacks Ranged weapons break down a little differently, because they most often must be both drawn and fired (or thrown) in the same round. Crossbows are pretty slow. It takes only 1 second to fire a loaded crossbow, but it takes a number of seconds equal to a weapon’s melee attack time spent (see above) to load a light crossbow or hand crossbow, and two times a weapon’s melee attack time spent to load a heavy crossbow or repeating crossbow (but once a repeating crossbow is loaded, it can be fired at a rate of 1 shot per second). Bows are faster than crossbows, requiring a weapon’s melee attack time spent -1 second to nock an arrow, and 1 second to fire a knocked arrow. Throwing something held in the hand also requires only 1 second, but drawing it takes the same amount of time as it would take to knock an arrow in seconds. The only exception to this last rule are shuriken, which can be thrown together. The attacker can effectively throw up to 3 shuriken from one hand as a single 1 second action, though the attacker suffers a -1 cumulative penalty for every additional shuriken, and each shuriken uses the same attack roll. Time Spent on Firing a Firearm Guns with a rate of fire of “1” take 6 seconds to shoot. Such guns roll their attack roll and damage on the first second during which they are shot, and the remaining 6 seconds are considered to be “pre-spent” seconds. A single shot gun requires 2 seconds to shoot. Its attack roll and damage are made on the first second during which it is shot, and the subsequent second is considered to be a pre-spent second. A semi-automatic weapon requires 1 second to shoot. A Double Tap requires 1 second to shoot. An autofire requires 2 seconds to shoot. A spray and pray requires 2 seconds to shoot. A burst fire requires 2 seconds to shoot. A character must spend a certain amount of time aiming a firearm equal to the amount of time it would take the character to make a melee attack with the smallest weapon that the character could wield. For example, a small size creature can aim a firearm in 1 second, a medium sized creature can aim a firearm in 1 second, a large sized creature can aim a firearm in 2 seconds, a huge sized creature can aim a firearm in 2 seconds, a gargantuan sized creature can aim a firearm in 3 seconds, and a colossal sized creature can aim a firearm in 3 seconds. A character need only aim a firearm once per iterative sequence of attacks. Attack Penalty for Iterative Attacks Iterative attacks (that is, attacks made in a direct sequence without a break or rest) impose a cumulative -5 penalty per attack. The first attack, therefore, is at the character’s full base attack bonus, while the next one (should they have enough seconds left to do so) would be at -5, then the third at -10, the fourth at -15, and so on. There is no limit to how many times a character can attack iteratively, though the penalty keeps growing with each subsequent attack. To drop the penalty back to zero one must cease attacking for a number of seconds equal to the longest attack made during a sequence of iterative attacks. Firearms also add their recoil penalty to iterative attacks. A firearm must be unfired for a number of seconds equal to its recoil penalty or its seconds spent firing, whichever is longer, in order to reduce this penalty to zero. This -5 iterative attack penalty applies to ranged weapons as well. These penalties can be partially mitigated by feats (see below). Two-Weapon Fighting A character attacking with two weapons suffers normal penalties for fighting with two weapons. Such characters are allowed to make a single attack with their off-hand weapon at the same time as they are making an attack with their primary weapon. Attacks with the offhand weapon take up triple the number of seconds that a weapon of that size would normally take. These seconds take place at the same time as the character is making attacks with his primary weapon. These seconds are essentially free because they take place during other attacks. An off-handed weapon tracks its iterative penalty to attack separately. In order to remove iterative penalties from an off-hand weapon a character must cease to attack with the off-hand weapon for a number of seconds equal to the longest attack made during a sequence of iterative attacks. Natural Weapons and Unarmed Attacks Natural weapons are considered light weapons and take 1 second per attack. The same -4 penalty applies to unarmed attacks made by those without the unarmed proficiency feat. Initiating a grapple takes 3 seconds to grab and attempt to hold an opponent. Attacks of Opportunity Any action that provokes an attack of opportunity still provokes an attack of opportunity. A character can only make an attack of opportunity if they are not in the process of expending pre-spent seconds. An attack of opportunity is made before the provoking character performs their action during the second, and costs the attack a number of pre-spent seconds equal to 1 second less then the attack would normally cost. Movement A character’s movement divided by 6 equals the amount of feet that a character can move in a single second. Thus, a normal human who has a movement rate of 30 now can move up to 5 feet each second of their turn. Other creatures with lesser movement rates can move fewer squares per 1 second interval, and some creatures with faster rates can move more squares per 1 second interval. These rates are maximums, so a player has an option to move less than the noted rate per second, should they choose to do so. However, all characters must move at least 5 feet in order to move a single square on the battle map. A character can move a total number of squares on the battle map during a second equal to his movement per second divided by 5. A character that cannot move a full 5 feet in a single round must spend more than a single second “moving” in order to move 1 square. The path taken by a moving character must be expressed on the game board as a straight line, to begin where the character began movement and end at (or up to) their maximum distance away. Characters wishing to zig-zag through barriers or other obstacles, like other characters, cannot simply thread their movement around said obstacles but must instead break down their movement in discrete units per second. These movement rates are subject to terrain penalties (and possibly bonuses, like moving downhill). For each second of travel the character may only move in one direction, and take no other action, except an optional attack. The attack roll and damage roll for this attack is made during the same second as the character’s movement, and the attack’s seconds spent are considered to be pre-spent seconds during which the character cannot perform any other actions. A character that moves for at least 2 seconds in a straight line towards a target may perform a charge. A charge grants you a +2 bonus to hit during your optional attack performed during the last second moved, however a charge causes a character to suffer a -2 to his armor class for 6 seconds after performing said attack. A character that moves for at least 1 second may begin to run on a subsequent second. One the 2nd second during which a character runs he moves at 2 times his movement rate. On the 3rd second during which a character runs he moves at 3 times his movement rate. On the third second during which a character runs he moves 4 times his movement rate. A character can only turn on a 45 degree angle on any second while running. A character looses his Dexterity bonus to Defense while running. However, a character gains a +2 bonus to Defense against ranged attacks while running. A character can run for a number of seconds equal to 6 times his constitution modifier. But after this he must make a constitution check every 6 seconds (with his first check being made as soon as his last normal second of running is spent) with a DC of 10 to continue running. The DC of this check increases by 1 for each 6 seconds in which you continue to run. When you fail this check, you must stop running. Other Actions There are a host of other possible actions a character may elect to take in any given round, from opening doors to drinking potions, shouting commands to casting spells. Many of these actions are already designated. In general: • Anything listed as taking a “free action” requires 0 seconds • Anything listed as taking an “immediate action” requires 1 second • Anything listed as taking a “swift action” requires 2 second • Anything listed as taking a “move action” requires 3 seconds • Anything listed as taking a “standard action” also requires 3 seconds, and • Anything listed as taking a “full-round action” requires 6 seconds. Other actions not listed require a number of seconds to be determined by the GM. Keep in mind that some actions may take more than 6 seconds to accomplish, and stopping midway may very well result in failure or incompletion. Speaking is considered a free action, but no more than (approximately) five words can be spoken in a second. Affect on Class Abilities, Etc. Any class ability, spell-like ability, supernatural ability, or the like is subject to these rules. For activation times, see the common chart above. The flurry of blows or lightning shot class abilities grant one free 0 second attack (the type of attack is noted in the abilities class description) at -2 to hit also causing all other attacks made in a 6 second period after said attack to suffer an additional -2 to hit. Modified Feats Many feats will be changed by introducing this system. (I was too tired to go over how I would do this tonight.) Anyways... those are the changes I would make. If you are going to partially remove rounds in favor of seconds, I think you should go the whole 9 yards.
hawaiianbrian 04-03-07, 10:28 AM	Those are interesting suggestions. It was particularly nice to see your recommendations on how to handle guns. I find the rate of fire in d20 to be unnaturally slow -- you can fire a pistol many times in six seconds. Six times, at least! More like twelve, or higher. Initially I put this together for D&D, but now that I'm about to run a modern game I found myself balking at including guns in the "6-second round" theory. Realistically, one should be able to blast away with that pistol and empty a magazine in one round, but clearly that's waaaaay too much damage for a character to dish out, at 2d6 or more per bullet! The movement thing also kept me awake at nights. In the end I opted for something not very elegant, but that's because in D&D you deal with all kinds of creatures and things with movement rates from 15 feet a round to 180, and that's standard movement rates, not to mention full move. I didn't know exactly how to handle it, but what you came up with is pretty good. Going from player to player each second is brilliant, by the way. I wish I had thought of that. It might slow things down a bit, but it would make rounds much more interesting. I'd probably require people to be quick about deciding what their character will do. Since I'm going to try playing without AoO for a while, that would speed things up considerably, since (my best estimate) it seems 50% of game time is eaten up by battlefield maneuvering and tactics designed to avoid AoO, or rolls to resolve them.
Cyber-Dave 04-03-07, 10:40 AM	If you read my re-written version, I still include attacks of opportunity. I find they are somewhat necessary to keep things balanced. But what happens is you can only make one if your next second is not a "pre-spent" second (IE: if you are in the middle of swinging a big weapon you can't) and they still cost seconds (they are not free attacks). They do make the attack cost 1 second less then normal though... Also, I am running into problems when calculating damage potential with melee weapons. I think I am going to change the ammount of seconds spent on melee (and natural) attacks to be based on the "size" of the weapon or attack being used. Diminutive-Tiny = 1 second Small-Medium= 2 seconds Large-Huge= 3 seconds Gargantuan-Colossal= 4 seconds As a size can be calculated even for natural attacks, this should work better. It also helps keep various sized weapons better balanced against each other, because right now I can't find a reason to go knife over short sword, or two handed sword over short sword for that matter (when calculating damage potential). Granted, this is partly because my version of your system just got rid of rounds completely, and instead requires rests in order to drop the penalty from iterative attacks. EDIT: So yea, I made some changes to my version of your system... namely, I changed some things about how long melee, ranged, and firearm attacks take. You can see what I changed above. I pretty much made melee attacks take a certain amount of time depending on the weapon size, I made ranged reload or knock times based on the same thing. And I added an "aiming" time to firearms (to try and keep things balanced). I edited the changes into my post above. Let me know what you think.
Fgarber 04-03-07, 05:17 PM	What does this do to higher level characters with multiple attacks? Under your system, a "normal" attack with a "standard" longsword: A 5th level fighter makes three attacks at +5, 0, and -5 A 6th level fighter makes three attacks +6, +1, and -4. That's only a small increase. Under the old system, though: A 5th level fighter makes 1 attack at +5 A 6th level fighter makes 2 attacks: one at +6, and one at +1 That second attack each round is a major benefit to the character moving up in levels. I would suggest something like: if the player wants to make more attacks than his BAB would allow, then the negative applies. If a player would receive a second (or third) attack, then the multiple attack penalty (-5 per attack) does not apply until they exceed their extra attacks. So after this adjustment, a "normal" attack with a "standard" longsword: A 5th level fighter makes attacks at +5, 0, -5 A 6th level fighter makes attacks at +6, +6, +1 You can apply something similar to "combo" attacks like the infamous claw/claw/bite attack, where each combo is treated as a single unit.
Cyber-Dave 04-04-07, 02:01 PM	I don't know if it is interesting to you at all hawaiian, as my version of your system will not really be your system anymore, but I have started adapting a second long turn based combat system on the d20 Modern boards directly based of the work you started here. If you want to take a look, the thread is located at this link: http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=821926
hawaiianbrian 04-04-07, 08:00 PM	I've been following that thread, and see some interesting modifications you've made to it. It seems like trying to hang on to those AoO is causing some major headaches. I keep trying to think about how other games work their rounds. For some reason I'm coming up blank (has it been that long?!) and all my books are on the mainland. Perhaps some solutions lie in "lifting" ideas from other games?
Cyber-Dave 04-04-07, 09:55 PM	Not really. Not trying to keep them creates more problems than keeping them. In fact, they are pretty much required to keep the balance between small weapons and large weapons. I actually had to add reasons why small weapons would cause attacks of opportunity when wielded against large weapons. I started by saying that small weapons provoke an attack of opportunity when used against a weapon 2 times larger then them, and ended up switching to a 2.5 foot square system, and stating that diminutive, tiny, and small weapons have a reach of 2.5 feet, and medium and large melee weapons have a reach of 5 feet. In order to get close enough to get an attack of opportunity against a medium or large weapon with a smaller weapon, you have to step through a threatened square which you can not attack from, and as a result you provoke an attack of opportunity. It was necessary to save game balance. With some recent changes I made today, things have been going a lot more smoothly. Of course, I won't be able to play test until beginning of march, so I won't be able to make my final judgments until then. I'm still 50/50 on if a change to second based system is a good idea or not... but my players seem anxious to try it out. They seem to think the idea seems interesting/preferable to the classic method. At least, one of them does...
BrotherKane 04-13-07, 08:08 AM	I've been following that thread, and see some interesting modifications you've made to it. It seems like trying to hang on to those AoO is causing some major headaches. I keep trying to think about how other games work their rounds. For some reason I'm coming up blank (has it been that long?!) and all my books are on the mainland. Perhaps some solutions lie in "lifting" ideas from other games? What about instead of providing a AoO, the character is considered flatfooted for AC until their turn comes around next. That way if their opponent can take their next attack to take advantage of this, or if they want to rest so they don't accumulate a -5 negative then the flatfooted character recovers in time and their vulnerability isn't exploited. That gets rid of AoO like you want and still gives the intended disincentive. I personally don't think AoO's are necessary if you move to one second combat since you're giving the players more control over their actions. Whaddya think?