Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Mist-Bound 09-07-06, 01:19 AM	I didn't start the first attempt at creating a D20 campaign setting out of Warhammer, but I was a major member of the project and, eventually, the only one who remained. Figuring that most would be "spooked off" by the sheer weight of everything, I've decided to let the original thread die off and start afresh. To this new topic, I've brought all the material originally designed by Catzo; he was the master behind our success, and his departure was our deathblow. So, with the salvaged gold posted here, cleansed of the dross of the old, let this new project succeed where the first attempt failed!
Mist-Bound 09-07-06, 01:20 AM	Player Races (version 1.11) We use the traditionla D&D races from the PHB. However there are changes to them. Unless otherwise noted use the original abilities of the races. These are the only Standard player races. Humans No changes, humans are humans. Dwarfs (Medium humanoids) +2 str, -2 dex, +2 con, +2 wis. +1 LA. Instead of the +2 save bonus against spells dwarfs has a natural resistance towards magic: Spellresistance 10+lvl. The +1 bonus to attack against orcs and goblisn are changed to attacks against greenskins. +1 bonus to attack against skavens. No magic affiliation. (Dwarf can never become any other spellcasting class than Runesmith, this includes Clerics? They can still use magical items.) Not familiar with urgroshes. Base speed 20 ft. Favourite class: Fighter Auto language: Khazalid Bonus languages: Reikspiel, Kislevite, Classical, Norse, Greenskin, Giant, Draconic (Warhammer dwarfes are more powerfull than traditional D&D dwarves and they have always had a high resistance towards magic. They do however have many other similarities with D&D dwarfs.) Haflings (Small humanoids) -2 str, +2 dex, -2 con, +2 cha. +1 bonus to slings, thrown weapons AND bows. +4 bonus to proffession (cook) +2 bonus to move silent and hide. No +2 listen bonus. No +2 bonus to climb and jump. Base speed 30 ft. Favourite class: Rouge Auto language: Reikspiel Bonus languages: Elthárin, Sylvan, Giant, Classical (Haflings in the warhammer world are more fragile than normal, however they are somewhat faster and are known to be excellent fellowship.) Elves (sea) (Medium humanoids) +4 dex, -2 con, +2 int LA +1 No immunity vs. magic sleep effects. No auto-checks to spot hidden doors. Base speed 40 ft. Auto language: Elthárin Bonus languages: Reikspiel, Breton, Tilian, Estalian. Favourite class: Wizard. Subraces: High elf. Fav. Class: Wizard. Bonus languages: Draconic, Sylvan, Classical. Other: Instead of proficiency with Rapiers they get proficiency with Spear and Shortspear. Wood elf. Fav. Class: Druid. Bonus languages: Sylvan, Breton, Reikspiel. Other: Instead of proficiency with Rapiers they get proficiency with Shortspear. (The warhammer elves are far superior to humans, and also far superior to D&D elves.) No gnomes, no half races. You could include them in your campaign as they are not forbidden, just not mentioned at all. Languages Elthárin=elven. Khazalid=dwarven. Classical is the "old language", some magical books and many old knowledge books are in this language. There are not as such a common language, but reikspiel, being the empire language,could qualify as such.
Mist-Bound 09-07-06, 01:21 AM	Classes (Version 1.13) Use the standard D&D classes, however there are modifications. Also there are race-limitations on who can be what. This is both cultural restrictions and restrictions due to the magic of the world. This list is only for player races. Barbarian (no changes) [humans (norse), dwarfs (norse)] Bard (No spells, No “use magical device”, Songs are (ex) instead of (sp), instead feats.) [all races] Bard bonus feats at 4th level and every 3 levels thereafter (7th, 10th, 13th, 16th, 19th). These can be any feats that are not meta-magical feats or itemcreation feats, or other feats relating to magic. Cleric (Divine attunement instead of spells per day, fewer spells known.) [humans (Sigmar, Ulric and Myrmedia)] Clerics do not have access to all their spells. They functions more like the wizards, having to learn the rituals from teachers and books. They starts out with a number of level 0 spells equal to their Int, and two+int modifier+domain 1st level spells. Every time they go up a level they learn an additional spell and new domain spells when you reach a level for them. You can learn new spells from books and scrolls as a wizard. You must choose: Turn Undeads, Turn Daemons or Smite Evil and Aura of Courage (as a paladin). - Divine attunement at 1st level. - Improved divine attunement at 8th level. - Greater divine attunement at 13th level. - Divine mastery at 18th level. Druid (Divine attunement instead of spells per day, fewer spells known.) [humans (Tall and Rhya) and wood elves] Druids do not have access to all their spells. They functions more like the sorcerer, automaticly gaining acces to new spells each level. They starts out with a number of level 0 spells equal to their Int, and two+int modifier 1st level spells. Every time they go up a level they learn two new spells. - Divine attunement at 1st level. - Improved divine attunement at 8th level. - Greater divine attunement at 13th level. - Divine mastery at 18th level. Fighter (no changes) [all races.] Paladin (Divine attunement instead of spells per day. Fewer spells known.) [humans (Myrmedia and bretonnian grailknights)] Paladins know their spells as normal. - Divine attunement at 4st level. - Improved divine attunement at 11th level. - Greater divine attunement at 18th level. Priest (Using the priest class made by Israfel666, but with divine attunement instead of spells per day) [humans (Manann, Morr, Shallaya, Ranald and Verena] Priests do not have access to all their spells. They functions more like the wizards, having to learn the rituals from teachers and books. They starts out with a number of level 0 spells equal to their Int, and two+int modifier+domain 1st level spells. Every time they go up a level they learn an additional spell and new domain spells when you reach a level for them. You can learn new spells from books and scrolls as a wizard. You must choose: Turn Undeads, Turn Daemons or Smite Evil and Aura of Courage (as a paladin). - Divine attunement at 1st level. - Improved divine attunement at 7th level. - Greater divine attunement at 12th level. - Divine mastery at 17th level. Ranger (No Spells, no Animal companion, instead feats) [all races.] - Nature Sense at 1st level (As druid) - Wild Healing at 2nd level (can use natural materials to heal wounds with a Heal check) from Warcraft RPG. - Trackless Step at 4th level, (as druid) but a Ranger of higher level can still track you with a –10 penalty - Sylvan Grace at 6th level (reduces penalties to Hide and Move Silently in natural terrain) from EQ RPG Wild Healing With 5 ranks (thus min. 2nd level) in the Survival skill you can use natural materials found in the wilderness to heal wounds. Make a DC 15 Survival check representing 1 hour of searching for and preparing roots, rare leaves, berries and other such materials used for a natural brew or poultice. Then you make a DC 10 Heal check (for yourself or another depending on who imbibed the concoction) and the subject recovers 1 hit point of damage for every point that the roll exceeds 10. Wild healing affects a single subject per attempt and the same subject benefits from the concoction only once per day. You gain a +5 competence bonus to the Heal check at 6th level and an add'l +5 every 4 levels (+10 at 10th, +15 at 14th, +20 at 18th). This bonus applies only to Heal checks made for Wild Healing. Sylvan Grace Reduces the -5 penalty to Move Silently or Hide when moving at a speed greater than one-half, but less than your normal speed to 0 and the penalty for doing it while attacking, running or charging to -10. It only applies when the Ranger is in natural surroundings (DM's call). Rogue (no changes) [All races.] Sorcerer (Aethyric attunement instead of spells per day.) [all races (chaos)]Spells known The sorcerer starts with normal amount of spells, and learn new ones as normal. - Aethyric attunement at 1st level. - Improved aethyric attunement at 5th level. - Greater aethyric attunement at 10th level. - Aethyric mastery at 15th level. Swashbuckler (no changes) [humans and elves] Wizards (Aethyric attunement instead of spells per day, fewer spells known.) [humans and elves.] Class skills: Concentration, Craft, Decipher script, Know (arcana, religion, history), Profession, Spellcraft. Bonus feats list: All meta magic feats, Spell mastery, Dhar attunement, Qhaysh atunnement, All "skill" feats. (Note, not any item creation feats.) Weapon proficiency: Club, dagger, quarterstaff. Human wizards are specialised in colour colleges (unlike elves). This specialisation functions like normal school specializations but in addition to limiting your selection of spells it also gives you some an additional class skill and am additional weapon proficiency. You gain a bonus of +2 to spell checks to cast spells within your own school. (Elves never specialise but uses all aspects of the winds of magic. They are often known as Mages as opposed to the specialised wizards. ) Spells known. Wizard starts out with only half their Intelligent score in 0-level spells and two+ half int modifier (round down) 1st level spells. Every time wizards go up a level they gain one additional spell. You can learn new spells from books and scrolls as normal. - Aethyric attunement at 1st level. - Improved aethyric attunement at 6th level. - Greater aethyric attunement at 11th level. - Aethyric mastery at 16th level. Code: College X-skill Wpn. Prof. Amber Survival Shortspear Ameth. Intimidate Scythe. Bright Intimidate Longsword. Celes. Know (astrol.) Longsword. Jade Know (nature) Sickle. Light Sense motive Longsword. Gold Appraise Longsword. Grey Hide Longsword. No monks! Adepts (Aethyric attunement instead of spells per day) [humans, haflings] - Aethyric attunement at 1st level. - Improved aethyric attunement at 9th level. - Greater aethyric attunement at 17th level. - Aethyric mastery at 16th level. Aristocrat [humans, dwarfes, elves (high, sea)] Commoner [all races] Experts [all races] Warrior [all races]
Mist-Bound 09-07-06, 01:22 AM	Gods (Version 1.13) These are the gods of the warhammer world. At least the ones humans worship. The domains used include the ones from the PHB and (Complete Divine). A few of the domains have slight modifications and theres one "new" {domain}. Gods of the Empire. Manann, god of the sea. Alignment: Chaotic neutral Favored weapon: Trident Domains: air, animal, water, (weather) Morr, god of death and dreams. Alignment: Lawful neutral Favored weapon: Quarterstaff Domains: (dream, glory, pact) {repose} Myrmidia, godess of War. Alignment: Lawful neutral Favored weapon: Spear Domains: law, protection, war, (competition) Ranald, god of tricksters. Alignment: chaotic neutral Favored weapon: Dagger Domains: luck, trickery, (liberation) Shallya, goddess of healing, mercy and childbirth. Alignment: Neutral good Favored weapon: Unarmed. Domains: good, healing, protection, (purification) Sigmar Heldenhammer, god of the empire. Alignment: Lawful good. Favored weapon: Two-handed warhammer (Maul) Domains: good, law, protection, (glory, mysticism) Taal and Rhya, lord of nature, mother of the earth. Alignment: Neutral Favored weapon: Sickle Domains: druid spells (air, animal, earth, plant, water) Ulric god of wolves, battle and winter. Alignment: Chaotic good Favored weapon: Two-handed warhammer (Maul) Domains: strength, war, (cold) Verena, godess of learning and justice. Alignment: Lawful neutral Favored weapon: Longsword Domains: knowledge, law, (inquisition, oracle) Other human gods. Lady of the lake, warden of Bretonnia. Alignment: Neutral good. Favored weapon: Bastard weapon Domains: good, protection, water, (purification) Solkan, god of order and discipline. Alignment: Lawful neutral. Favored weapon: Morningstar Domains: law, sun, (mysticism) The chaos gods. Khorne, the blood god. Alignment: Chaotic evil Favored weapon: Waraxe (as dwarven waraxe) Domains: chaos, destruction, evil, strength, war Tzeentch, changer of ways. Alignment: Chaotic evil Favored weapon: Spear (shortspear) Domains: chaos, evil, knowledge, luck, magic, trickery, (madness) Nurgle, god of despair and corruption. Alignment: Chaotic evil Favored weapon: Flail Domains: chaos, destruction, evil, (pestilence) Slaanesh, prince of perversion. Alignment: Chaotic evil Favored weapon: Barbed whip (as normal whip but does lethal damage) Domains: chaos, evil, (domination) Evil, change lvl 6, create undead to: Inflict moderate wounds, mass. War, change lvl 6, blade barrier to: Bears endurance, mass. Repose (found in Players guide to Faerun and Ravenloft Campaign Setting) Granted Power: Once per day, you may grant Final Rest as a Spell-Like Ability by tracing your diety's holy symbol on a newly dead body. The targeted corpse thereafter receives a Will save (using your Will Save Bonus) to resist any attempts to transform it into an undead creature, including spells such as Animate Dead and the Create Spawn ability of undead creatures. Bonus Spells: Level 1: Detect Undead Level 2: Gentle Repose Level 3: Speak with Dead Level 4: Halt Undead Level 5: Raise Dead Level 6: Antilife Shell Level 7: Resurrection Level 8: Control Undead Level 9: Soul Bind Cleric spell lists. (Version 1.00) I have not added any spells to the list, only removed spells. This is only from the PHB, I havn't had time to add the ones from Complete Divine. The spells with a - after the spell number are "evil" spells only apropriate for follwoers of the chaos gods. I am not sure about including the ressurection spells. I might make their level higher so they are harder to cast. Incouraging rituals. The spells I'm not sure about have a ? next to their level. 0 Cure Minor Wounds: Cures 1 point of damage. 0 Detect Magic: Detects spells and magic items within 60 ft. 0 Detect Poison: Detects poison in one creature or object. 0 Guidance: +1 on one attack roll, saving throw, or skill check. 0 Inflict Minor Wounds: Touch attack, 1 point of damage. 0 Purify Food and Drink: Purifies 1 cu. ft./level of food or water. 0 Read Magic: Read scrolls and spellbooks. 0 Resistance: Subject gains +1 on saving throws. 0 Virtue: Subject gains 1 temporary hp. 1 Bane: Enemies take –1 on attack rolls and saves against fear. 1 Bless Water M: Makes holy water. 1 Bless: Allies gain +1 on attack rolls and saves against fear. 1 Cause Fear: One creature of 5 HD or less flees for 1d4 rounds. 1 Command: One subject obeys selected command for 1 round. 1 Cure Light Wounds: Cures 1d8 damage +1/level (max +5). 1- Curse Water M: Makes unholy water. 1 Detect Chaos/Evil/Good/Law: Reveals creatures, spells, or objects of selected alignment. 1 Detect Undead: Reveals undead within 60 ft. 1 Divine Favor: You gain +1 per three levels on attack and damage rolls. 1 Doom: One subject takes –2 on attack rolls, damage rolls, saves, and checks. 1 Endure Elements: Exist comfortably in hot or cold environments. 1 Entropic Shield: Ranged attacks against you have 20% miss chance. 1- Inflict Light Wounds: Touch deals 1d8 damage +1/level (max +5). 1 Magic Weapon: Weapon gains +1 bonus. 1 Protection from Chaos/Evil/Good/Law: +2 to AC and saves, counter mind control, hedge out elementals and outsiders. 1 Remove Fear: Suppresses fear or gives +4 on saves against fear for one subject + one per four levels. 1 Sanctuary: Opponents can’t attack you, and you can’t attack. 1 Shield of Faith: Aura grants +2 or higher deflection bonus. 2 Aid: +1 on attack rolls and saves against fear, 1d8 temporary hp +1/level (max +10). 2 Align Weapon: Weapon becomes good, evil, lawful, or chaotic. 2 Augury M F: Learns whether an action will be good or bad. 2 Bear’s Endurance: Subject gains +4 to Con for 1 min./level. 2 Bull’s Strength: Subject gains +4 to Str for 1 min./level. 2 Calm Emotions: Calms creatures, negating emotion effects. 2 Consecrate M: Fills area with positive energy, making undead weaker. 2 Cure Moderate Wounds: Cures 2d8 damage +1/level (max +10). 2 Deathwatch: Reveals how near death subjects within 30 ft. are. 2 Delay Poison: Stops poison from harming subject for 1 hour/level. 2 Eagle’s Splendor: Subject gains +4 to Cha for 1 min./level. 2 Gentle Repose: Preserves one corpse. 2- Inflict Moderate Wounds: Touch attack, 2d8 damage +1/level (max +10). 2 Owl’s Wisdom: Subject gains +4 to Wis for 1 min./level. 2 Remove Paralysis: Frees one or more creatures from paralysis or slow effect. 2 Resist Energy: Ignores 10 (or more) points of damage/attack from specified energy type. 2 Restoration, Lesser: Dispels magical ability penalty or repairs 1d4 ability damage. 2 Shield Other F: You take half of subject’s damage. 2 Status: Monitors condition, position of allies. 3 Bestow Curse: –6 to an ability score; –4 on attack rolls, saves, and checks; or 50% chance of losing each action. 3 Cure Serious Wounds: Cures 3d8 damage +1/level (max +15). 3 Dispel Magic: Cancels spells and magical effects. 3 Glyph of Warding M: Inscription harms those who pass it. 3- Inflict Serious Wounds: Touch attack, 3d8 damage +1/level (max +15). 3 Magic Circle against Chaos/Evil/Good/Law: As protection spells, but 10-ft. radius and 10 min./level. 3 Magic Vestment: Armor or shield gains +1 enhancement per four levels. 3 Prayer: Allies +1 bonus on most rolls, enemies –1 penalty. 3 Protection from Energy: Absorb 12 points/level of damage from one kind of energy. 3 Remove Blindness/Deafness: Cures normal or magical conditions. 3 Remove Curse: Frees object or person from curse. 3 Remove Disease: Cures all diseases affecting subject. 4 crushing dispair 4 Cure Critical Wounds: Cures 4d8 damage +1/level (max +20). 4 Death Ward: Grants immunity to death spells and negative energy effects. 4 Dimensional Anchor: Bars extradimensional movement. 4 Discern Lies: Reveals deliberate falsehoods. 4 Dismissal: Forces a creature to return to native plane. 4 Divination M: Provides useful advice for specific proposed actions. 4 Divine Power: You gain attack bonus, +6 to Str, and 1 hp/level. 4- Inflict Critical Wounds: Touch attack, 4d8 damage +1/level (max +20). 4 Magic Weapon, Greater: +1 bonus/four levels (max +5). 4 Neutralize Poison: Immunizes subject against poison, detoxifies venom in or on subject. 4 Restoration M: Restores level and ability score drains. 5 Atonement F X: Removes burden of misdeeds from subject. 5 Break Enchantment: Frees subjects from enchantments, alterations, curses, and petrification. 5 Command, Greater: As command, but affects one subject/level. 5 Commune X: Deity answers one yes-or-no question/level. 5 Cure Light Wounds, Mass: Cures 1d8 damage +1/level for many creatures. 5 Dispel Chaos/Evil/Good/Law: +4 bonus against attacks. 5 Disrupting Weapon: Melee weapon destroys undead. 5 Flame Strike: Smite foes with divine fire (1d6/level damage). 5 Hallow M: Designates location as holy. 5- Inflict Light Wounds, Mass: Deals 1d8 damage +1/level to many creatures. 5 Mark of Justice: Designates action that will trigger curse on subject. 5? Raise Dead M: Restores life to subject who died as long as one day/level ago. 5 Righteous Might: Your size increases, and you gain combat bonuses. 5 Spell Resistance: Subject gains SR 12 + level. 5 Symbol of Pain M: Triggered rune wracks nearby creatures with pain. 5 Symbol of Sleep M: Triggered rune puts nearby creatures into catatonic slumber. 5 True Seeing M: Lets you see all things as they really are. 5- Unhallow M: Designates location as unholy. 6 Antilife Shell: 10-ft. field hedges out living creatures. 6 Banishment: Banishes 2 HD/level of extraplanar creatures. 6 Bear’s Endurance, Mass: As bear’s endurance, affects one subject/ level. 6 Bull’s Strength, Mass: As bull’s strength, affects one subject/level. 6 Cure Moderate Wounds, Mass: Cures 2d8 damage +1/level for many creatures. 6 Dispel Magic, Greater: As dispel magic, but up to +20 on check. 6 Eagle’s Splendor, Mass: As eagle’s splendor, affects one subject/level. 6 Forbiddance M: Blocks planar travel, damages creatures of different alignment. 6 Geas/Quest: As lesser geas, plus it affects any creature. 6 Glyph of Warding, Greater: As glyph of warding, but up to 10d8 damage or 6th-level spell. 6 Guards and wards 6- Harm: Deals 10 points/level damage to target. 6 Heal: Cures 10 points/level of damage, all diseases and mental conditions. 6- Inflict Moderate Wounds, Mass: Deals 2d8 damage +1/level to many creatures. 6 Owl’s Wisdom, Mass: As owl’s wisdom, affects one subject/level. 6 Symbol of Fear M: Triggered rune panics nearby creatures. 6 Symbol of Persuasion M: Triggered rune charms nearby creatures. 6 Undeath to Death M: Destroys 1d4 HD/level undead (max 20d4). 7- Blasphemy: Kills, paralyzes, weakens, or dazes nonevil subjects. 7 Cure Serious Wounds, Mass: Cures 3d8 damage +1/level for many creatures. 7 Dictum: Kills, paralyzes, slows, or deafens nonlawful subjects. 7 Ethereal Jaunt: You become ethereal for 1 round/level. 7 Holy Word: Kills, paralyzes, blinds, or deafens nongood subjects. 7- Inflict Serious Wounds, Mass: Deals 3d8 damage +1/level to many creatures. 7? Regenerate: Subject’s severed limbs grow back, cures 4d8 damage +1/level (max +35). 7 Restoration, Greater X: As restoration, plus restores all levels and ability scores. 7? Resurrection M: Fully restore dead subject. 7 Symbol of Stunning M: Triggered rune stuns nearby creatures. 7 Symbol of Weakness M: Triggered rune weakens nearby creatures. 7- Word of Chaos: Kills, confuses, stuns, or deafens nonchaotic subjects. 8 Antimagic Field: Negates magic within 10 ft. 8- Cloak of Chaos F: +4 to AC, +4 resistance, and SR 25 against lawful spells. 8 Cure Critical Wounds, Mass: Cures 4d8 damage +1/level for many creatures. 8 Dimensional Lock: Teleportation and interplanar travel blocked for one day/level. 8 Discern Location: Reveals exact location of creature or object. 8 Holy Aura F: +4 to AC, +4 resistance, and SR 25 against evil spells. 8- Inflict Critical Wounds, Mass: Deals 4d8 damage +1/level to many creatures. 8 Planar Ally, Greater X: As lesser planar ally, but up to 18 HD. 8 Shield of Law F: +4 to AC, +4 resistance, and SR 25 against chaotic spells. 8 Spell Immunity, Greater: As spell immunity, but up to 8th-level spells. 8 Symbol of Death M: Triggered rune slays nearby creatures. 8 Symbol of Insanity M: Triggered rune renders nearby creatures insane. 8 Temporal status 8 Unholy Aura F: +4 to AC, +4 resistance, and SR 25 against good spells. 9 Energy Drain: Subject gains 2d4 negative levels. 9 Foresight 9 Heal, Mass: As heal, but with several subjects. 9 Imprisonment 9 Miracle X: Requests a deity’s intercession. 9 Soul Bind F: Traps newly dead soul to prevent resurrection. 9 Storm of Vengeance: Storm rains acid, lightning, and hail. 9? True Resurrection M: As resurrection, plus remains aren’t needed.
Mist-Bound 09-07-06, 01:23 AM	Monster races. (version 1.27) Templates. So far I'm only making templates. It shouldn't be hard to make them more specialised, giving them class levels and equipment to fit what you want. Skaven (Medium humanoid, skaven) [neutral evil] -2 str, +4 dex, -2 cha +4 racial bonus to hide and Move Silent +4 racial bonus to balance +4 bonus to climb and swim. Skavens can use their dex modifier to climb. +2 racial bonus to saving throws against poisons and disease Scent Dark vision 60 ft Light sensitivity Base speed 40 ft. Favourite class: Rogue Auto language: Skaven Bonus languages: Goblenoid, Ogre, Reikspiel, Hobgoblin LA+1 Orc (Medium humanoid, greenskin) [chaotic evil] +4 str, -2 dex, +2 con, -2 int, -2 wis, -2 cha 1 humanoid level. 1d8hp, base attack +0, fort +2, ref+0, will+0 4x(2+int mod) skills: Intimidate, ride (boars), climb, swim. +2 racial bonus to intimidate 1 bonus feat. Low-light vision. +2 natural armour Ferocity (ex) (As a boar per MM p.270) Weapon proficiency: Choppa. Base speed 30 ft. Favourite class: fighter Auto language: Goblenoid Bonus languages: Reikspiel, Ogre, Giant, Hobgoblin Choppas are like dwaven battleaxe. Savage Orc (Medium humanoid, greenskin) [chaotic evil] Favourite class: barbarian Tattoos: Savage orcs rarely wear armour, instead the decorate themselves with protective tattoos. These grant a +2 deflection bonus to AC, but only as long as the orc doesn’t wear armour (not including shield) Otherwise as normal orc. Black Orc (Medium humanoid, greenskin) [lawful evil] +6 str, -2 dex, +4 con, -2 int, -2 cha 2 humanoid levels. 2d8hp, base attack +1, fort +3, ref+0, will+0 5x(2+int mod) skills: Intimidate, ride (boars), climb, swim. +4 racial bonus to intimidate. 1 bonus feat. Otherwise as normal orc. Goblin (Small humanoid, greenskin) [neutral evil] Bonus languages: Reikspiel, Ogre, Giant, Troll, Skaven, Hobgoblin Low-light vision. Instead of Darkvision. Otherwise as normal D&D goblins. (Forest and night goblins are just like normal goblins, but the have Ride (spider) and Ride (squig) bonus’s instead.) Ogre (Large giant) [chaotic evil] 40 base speed. Bonus languages: Reikspiel, Giant, Goblenoid Low-light vision. Instead of Darkvision. Otherwise as normal D&D ogres. Troll (Large giant) [chaotic evil] +12 str, -4 dex, +8 con, -6 int, -2 wis, -4 cha 6 giant levels. 6d8hp, base attack +4, fort +5, ref+2, will+2. 9x(2+int mod) skills: Listen, spot, (climb for stone trolls), (swim for river trolls) 3 bonus feats Dark vision 60 ft. +5 natural armour. Natural attacks : Bite 1d6 (and claws for river trolls) Regeneration 5. Vomit attack. 3 times per day (or until next meal) trolls can make a vomit attack. The attack is a ranged touch attack, range 10 ft. 2d8 acid damage. (Spell resistance 10+HD for stone trolls) Base speed 30 ft. (Swim 10ft for river trolls) Auto language: Troll Bonus languages: Goblenoid, Ogre, Giant Giant (Huge giant) [chaotic evil] +22 str, -4 dex, +12 con, -4 int, -4 cha 13 giant levels. 13d8hp, base attack +9/+4, fort +8, ref+4, will+4. 16x(2+int mod) skills: climb, Jump, Listen, Spot 5 bonus feats Low light vision +12 natural armour. Rock throwing, Rock catching. Trample, Crush, Grabble, Fling Base speed 40 ft. Auto language: Giant Bonus languages: Goblenoid, Ogre, Norse, Troll Trample (ex): As a standard action the giant can trample anyone of at least 2 size categories smaller. This does 2d10+(str bonus). The opponent can either make an Attack of opportunity at -4 or make a Reflex save (DC28) for half damage. Crush (ex): A giant jumping at least 20ft into the air, or 20ft down, can crush opponents of at least 2 size categories smaller. Opponents within the giants area (10x10ft, or 10x15ft if landing on his seat) must succeed a Reflex save (DC25) or be pinned taking 1d6+(str bonus). Thereafter treat it as a normal grabble. (Note a killed giant will fall over in a random direction, as for grenade attacks, covering an area of 10x30ft. Anyone not succeeding a Reflex save (DC20) takes 1d6damage(+str bonus)) Grabble(ex): If a giant hits an opponents of at least 1 size category smaller with a slam attack, apart fro m doing normal damage he may automatically make a grabble. Optionally he may just use one hand (taking -20 to his check). In doing so the giant doesn’t count as grabbling. Fling(ex): The Giant can throw a grabbled opponent of at least 2 size categories smaller. This does 1d6+(str bonus) to the thrown opponent and 1d8+(str bonus) to a target, if any. The opponent can be thrown with a range increasement of 100ft. Shallow whole(ex): If a giant has grabbed an opponent of at least 2 size categories smaller he can try to shallow it. Make another grabble atemt as if the Giant would try to pin the opponent. If the giant wins it shallows the opponent. This deals 1d6+(str bonus) damage and the nand additional 1d8+(con modifier) acid damage each turn after that. A shwallowed character can try to cut his way out with a light slashign or piercing weapon, he has to do 20+(con modifier) poitns of damage against an AC of 16. Snotling (Tiny humanoid, greenskin) [Neutral evil] -4 str, +2 con, -2 wis, -4 int, -4 cha Low-light vision. Base speed 20 ft. Auto language: goblenoid Bonus languages: - Hobgoblin (Medium humanoid, greenskin) [chaotic evil] +2 dex, -2 wis, -4 cha +4 racial bonus to movesilent and ride checks. +2 racial bonus to craft (poisens) and bluff checks. Low-light vision. Base speed 30 ft. Favourite class: fighter Auto language: hobgoblin Bonus languages: Goblenoid, Ogre, Chaos dwarf Gors (Medium monstrous humanoid, beastman) [chaotic evil] +4 str, +2 con, -2 int, -2 wis, -2 cha 3 monstrous humanoid levels. 3d8hp, base attack +3, fort +1, ref+3, will+3 6x(2+int mod) skills: listen, spot, survival, move silent, hide +2 racial bonus to move silent. 2 bonus feat. Dark vision 60 ft. +2 natural armour Head butt (1d6 dam) Base speed 40 ft. Favourite class: barbarian Auto language: dark tongue Bonus languages: Reikspiel, Ogre, Giant, Goblenoid Ungors (Medium monstrous humanoid, beastman) [chaotic evil] +2 con, -2 wis, -2 cha 1 monstrous humanoid levels. 1d8hp, base attack +1, fort +0, ref+2, will+2 4x(2+int mod) skills: listen, spot, survival, move silent, hide +2 racial bonus to move silent. 1 bonus feat. Dark vision 60 ft. Base speed 40 ft. Favourite class:rogue Auto language: dark tongue Bonus languages: Reikspiel, Ogre, Giant, Goblenoid Wight (undead template) [always evil] +4 str, +2 wis, +2 cha. Upgrade HD to d12. +5 Natural AC (Or the creatures natural AC whichever is higher. Damage: In addition to normal damage from its weapon, if it deals damage, the wight also deals 1 con damage. Will save resists (DC 10+½lvl+cha bonus). Fear aura: Any creatues with less than 5 HD within 15ft. of the Wight must succeed a Will save (DC 10+½lvl+cha bonus) or be affected by fear as per the Fear spell cast by a sorcerer of the Wights lvl. Undead followers: A wight attracts lesser undead creatures that happens to be within a 200-miles radius. It may have up to twice its lvl HD of followers. DR: 15/+1 Immunities: Wights are immune to cold, electricity, and polymorph in addition to the normal undead immunities. Turn resistance: a Wight has +4 turn resistance. Ghoul (Medium undead) [chaotic evil] Venomous (instead of paralyse): Those hit by a ghouls bite or claw attack must take a fort (DC12) or take 1 str damage. Otherwise as normal D&D ghouls. Beastiary (version 1.02) The number next to the names are which Monsters manual the monster is in, 1, 2 or 3. Those without a number we either have made ourself or need to make. Humanoids Greenskin Orc Black orc Savage orc Goblin1 Night goblin Forest goblin Troll River troll Stone troll Ogre (Ogre1) Giant Snotling Giant wolf (normal wolf1 or worgs1) Giant spider (Medium monstrous hunter spider1) Boar (dire boar1) Squig Swarm of spiders1 Skavens Skaven Stormvermin Greyseer Rat ogres Giant rats (dire rats1) Swarm of rats1 Beastmen Gor Ungor Centaur1 Minotaur1 Tuskgor Others Lizard folk1 Lizard folk3 Hobgoblin Chaos dwarfs Bull centaurs Dark elves Beasts Chromatic dragons1 Unicorn1 Chimera1 Cockatrice1 (Bigger. Can improve to Large size) Hippogriff1 Griffon1 Hydra1 Lamasu1 (Chaos dwarfs) Dinosaurs1 (Lustria) Felldrake1 Manticore1 Pegasus1 Giant, eagle1 Giant, owl1 Winter wolves1 (Neutral, not evil.) Wyvern1 Leviathan2 (ocean) Megalodon2 (ocean) Mastadon3 (norse) Grizzly mastodon2 (norse) Great Taurus (chaos dwarfs) Animals Most animals1 (including dire) Needletooth3 (lustria) Chaos Spawns of chaos Chaos beast1 (chaos) Gibbeing mouther1 (chaos) Grick1 (chaos) Otyugh1 (chaos) Darktentacles2 Flesh Jelly2 (chaos) Fihyr2 (chaos) Rukarazyll2 (chaos) Beast of chaos Juggernau (Gorgon1 or Juggernaut2 or Ironclad mauler3) Spellwarped creatures3 Dragon ogres (Tauric-template3) Half fiend1 (chaos) Cadaver collecter3 (chaos) Demons Famine spirit2 (chaos) Hell hound1 (chaos) Demons and devils 1, 2, 3 Undeads Ghouls1 Ghost1 Mummy1 Salt mummy3 Spectre1 Skeletons1 Vampire1 (bloodlines) Wight Wraith Zombies Banshee (Deathshireker3) Desmodo bats3 (maybe) Others Elementals1 Dryads1 (different aspects) Harpy1 Lycanthrope1 (werewolves, were boars (norse), were-felines) Warbest-template2 Familiars (Mephits1 and Homunculus1)
Mist-Bound 09-07-06, 01:24 AM	Dark powers (version 1.01) So far I have only included spelllists for Necromancy and Chaos. The spells with a ? next to their level is spell I'm not sure about. I'll post changes to the Taint and Sanity rules (if any) here, at some point. I'll also post "dark" prestige classes, such as chaos sorcerer, chaos warrior and necromancer here. Most likely just altered "tainted-classes". Necromancy Spellspellist (Version 1.00) lvl Necromancy 0 Ghost Sound: Figment sounds. 0 Inflict Minor Wounds: Touch attack, 1 point of damage. 0 Touch of Fatigue: Touch attack fatigues target. 1 Cause Fear: One creature of 5 HD or less flees for 1d4 rounds. 1 Chill Touch: One touch/level deals 1d6 damage and possibly 1 Str damage. 1 Deathwatch: Reveals how near death subjects within 30 ft. are. 1 Disrupt Undead: Deals 1d6 damage to one undead. 1 Detect Undead: Reveals undead within 60 ft. 1 Hide from Undead: Undead can’t perceive one subject/level. 1 Inflict Light Wounds: Touch deals 1d8 damage +1/level (max +5). 1 Ray of Enfeeblement: Ray deals 1d6 +1 per two levels Str damage. 1 Curse Water M: Makes unholy water. 2 Barkskin: Grants +2 (or higher) enhancement to natural armor. (bonearmour) 2 False Life: Gain 1d10 temporary hp +1/level (max +10). 2 Command Undead: Undead creature obeys your commands. 2 Death Knell: Kills dying creature; you gain 1d8 temporary hp, +2 to Str, and +1 level. 2 Ghoul Touch: Paralyzes one subject, which exudes stEnch 2 Inflict Moderate Wounds: Touch attack, 2d8 damage +1/level (max +10). 2 Scare: Panics creatures of less than 6 HD. 2 Desecrate M: Fills area with negative energy, making undead stronger. 2 Summon Swarm: Summons swarm of bats, rats, or spiders. 2 See Invisibility: Reveals invisible creatures or objects. 3 Halt Undead: Immobilizes undead for 1 round/level. 3 Speak with Dead: Corpse answers one question/two levels. 3 Vampiric Touch: Touch deals 1d6/two levels damage; caster gains damage as hp. 3 Animate Dead M: Creates undead skeletons and zombies. 4 Fear: Subjects within cone flee for 1 round/level. 4 Inflict Critical Wounds: Touch attack, 4d8 damage +1/level (max +20). 4 Enervation: Subject gains 1d4 negative levels. 4 Rusting Grasp: Your touch corrodes iron and alloys. 4 Giant Vermin: Turns centipedes, scorpions, or spiders into giant vermin. 5 Inflict Light Wounds, Mass: Deals 1d8 damage +1/level to many creatures. 5? Symbol of Pain M: Triggered rune wracks nearby creatures with pain. 5? Symbol of Sleep M: Triggered rune puts nearby creatures into catatonic slumber. 5 Death Ward: Grants immunity to all death spells and negative energy effects. 5 Disrupting Weapon: Melee weapon destroys undead. 5 Waves of Fatigue: Several targets become fatigued. 5 Cloudkill: Kills 3 HD or less; 4–6 HD save or die, 6+ HD take Con damage. 5 Blight: Withers one plant or deals 1d6/level damage to plant creature. 5 Create Undead M: Creates ghouls, ghasts, mummies, or mohrgs. 6 Circle of Death M: Kills 1d4/level HD of creatures. 6 Harm: Deals 10 points/level damage to target. 6 Inflict Moderate Wounds, Mass: Deals 2d8 damage +1/level to many creatures. 6 Antilife Shell: 10-ft. field hedges out living creatures. 6 Control Undead: Undead don’t attack you while under your command. 7 Undeath to Death M: Destroys 1d4 HD/level undead (max 20d4). 7 Finger of Death: Kills one subject. 7 Inflict Serious Wounds, Mass: Deals 3d8 damage +1/level to many creatures. 7 Blasphemy: Kills, paralyzes, weakens, or dazes nonevil subjects. 7? Symbol of Stunning M: Triggered rune stuns nearby creatures. 7? Symbol of Weakness M: Triggered rune weakens nearby creatures. 7 Waves of Exhaustion: Several targets become exhausted. 7 Creeping Doom: Swarms of centipedes attack at your command. 8 Horrid Wilting: Deals 1d6/level damage within 30 ft. 8 Inflict Critical Wounds, Mass: Deals 4d8 damage +1/level to many creatures. 8? Symbol of Death M: Triggered rune slays nearby creatures. 8? Symbol of Insanity M: Triggered rune renders nearby creatures insane. 8 Antipathy: Object or location affected by spell repels certain creatures. 8 Mind Blank: Subject is immune to mental/emotional magic and scrying. 9 Power Word Kill: Kills one creature with 100 hp or less. 9 Energy Drain: Subject gains 2d4 negative levels. 9 Wail of the Banshee: Kills one creature/level. 9 Soul Bind F: Traps newly dead soul to prevent resurrection. 9 Etherealness: Travel to Ethereal Plane with companions. Chaos Spelllist (Version 1.00) lvl Chaos 0 Touch of Fatigue: Touch attack fatigues target. 0 Dancing Lights: Creates torches or other lights. 0 Detect Magic: Detects spells and magic items within 60 ft. 0 Acid Splash: Orb deals 1d3 acid damage. 1 Protection from Chaos/Evil/Good/Law: +2 to AC and saves, counter mind control, hedge out elementals and outsiders. 1 Cause Fear: One creature of 5 HD or less flees for 1d4 rounds. 1 Ray of Enfeeblement: Ray deals 1d6 +1 per two levels Str damage. 1 Curse Water M: Makes unholy water. 1 Detect Chaos/Evil/Good/Law: Reveals creatures, spells, or objects of selected alignment. 1 Bane: Enemies take –1 on attack rolls and saves against fear. 1 Doom: One subject takes –2 on attack rolls, damage rolls, saves, and checks. 1 Unseen Servant: Invisible force obeys your commands. 1 Color Spray: Knocks unconscious, blinds, and/or stuns weak creatures. 1 Shocking Grasp: Touch delivers 1d6/level electricity damage (max 5d6). 1 Summon Monster I: Calls extraplanar creature to fight for you. 1 Tensers floating disk: Creates 3-ft.-diameter horizontal disk that holds 100 lb./level. 1 Command: One subject obeys selected command for 1 round. 1 Confusion, lesser: One creature is confused for 1 round. 2 Scare: Panics creatures of less than 6 HD. 2 Summon Swarm: Summons swarm of bats, rats, or spiders. 2 Spectral Hand: Creates disembodied glowing hand to deliver touch attacks. 2 Darkvision: See 60 ft. in total darkness. 2 Blindness/Deafness: Makes subject blind or deaf. 2 Touch of Idiocy: Subject takes 1d6 points of Int, Wis, and Cha damage. 2 Tashas hideous laughter: Subject loses actions for 1 round/ level. 2 Enthrall: Captivates all within 100 ft. + 10 ft./level. 2 Hypnotic Pattern: Fascinates (2d4 + level) HD of creatures. 2 Misdirection: Misleads divinations for one creature or object. 2 Obscure Object: Masks object against scrying. 2 Undetectable Alignment: Conceals alignment for 24 hours. 2 Glitterdust: Blinds creatures, outlines invisible creatures. 2 Warp Wood: Bends wood (shaft, handle, door, plank). 2 Flame Blade: Touch attack deals 1d8 +1/two levels damage. 2 Align Weapon: Weapon becomes good, evil, lawful, or chaotic. 2 Magic Mouth M: Speaks once when triggered. 2 Summon Monster II: Calls extraplanar creature to fight for you. 3 See Invisibility: Reveals invisible creatures or objects. 3 Phantom Steed: Magic horse appears for 1 hour/level. 3 Arcane Sight, Greater: As arcane sight, but also reveals magic effects on creatures and objects. 3 Tongues: Speak any language. 3 Magic Circle against Chaos/Evil/Good/Law: As protection spells, but 10-ft. radius and 10 min./level. 3 Illusory Script M: Only intended reader can decipher. 3 Displacement: Attacks miss subject 50%. 3 Suggestion: Compels subject to follow stated course of action. 3 Flame Arrow: Arrows deal +1d6 fire damage. 3 Ray of Exhaustion: Ray makes subject exhausted. 3 Rage: Gives +2 to Str and Con, +1 on Will saves, –2 to AC. 3 Blink: You randomly vanish and reappear for 1 round/level. 3 Poison: Touch deals 1d10 Con damage, repeats in 1 min. 3 Summon Monster III: Calls extraplanar creature to fight for you. 3 Contagion: Infects subject with chosen disease. 4 Fear: Subjects within cone flee for 1 round/level. 4 Evards Black Tentacles: Tentacles grapple all within 20 ft. spread. 4 Bestow Curse: –6 to an ability score; –4 on attack rolls, saves, and checks; or 50% chance of losing each action. 4 Crushing Despair: Subjects take –2 on attack rolls, damage rolls, saves, and checks. 4 Arcane Eye: Invisible floating eye moves 30 ft./round. 4 Detect Scrying: Alerts you of magical eavesdropping. 4 Rainbow Pattern: Lights fascinate 24 HD of creatures. 4 Chaos hammer: 4 Dimension Door: Teleports you short distance. 4 Planar Ally, Lesser X: Exchange services with a 6 HD extraplanar creature. 4 Summon Monster IV: Calls extraplanar creature to fight for you. 4 Hold Monster: As hold person, but any creature. 5 Feeblemind: Subject’s Int and Cha drop to 1. 5 Nightmare: Sends vision dealing 1d10 damage, fatigue. 5 Mind Fog: Subjects in fog get –10 to Wis and Will checks. 5 Teleport: Instantly transports you as far as 100 miles/level. 5 Permanency X:Makes certain spells permanent. 5 Dismissal: Forces a creature to return to native plane. 5 Dispel Chaos/Evil/Good/Law: +4 bonus against attacks. 5 Cloudkill: Kills 3 HD or less; 4–6 HD save or die, 6+ HD take Con damage. 5 Bigbys interposing hand: Hand provides cover against one opponent. 5 Contact Other Plane: Lets you ask question of extraplanar entity. 5 Insect Plague: Locust swarms attack creatures. 5 Planar Binding, Lesser: Traps extraplanar creature of 6 HD or less until it performs a task. 5 Prying Eyes: 1d4 +1/level floating eyes scout for you. 5 Summon Monster V: Calls extraplanar creature to fight for you. 5 Unhallow M: Designates location as unholy. 5 Magic Jar F: Enables possession of another creature. 5? Symbol of Pain M: Triggered rune wracks nearby creatures with pain. 5? Symbol of Sleep M: Triggered rune puts nearby creatures into catatonic slumber. 5 Command, Greater: As command, but affects one subject/level. 6 Harm: Deals 10 points/level damage to target. 6 Analyze Dweomer F: Reveals magical aspects of subject. 6 Animate Objects: Objects attack your foes. 6 Dispel Magic, Greater: As dispel magic, but +20 on check. 6 Tensers Transformation M: You gain combat bonuses. 6 Forbiddance M: Blocks planar travel, damages creatures of different alignment. 6 Disintegrate: Makes one creature or object vanish. 6 Acid Fog: Fog deals acid damage. 6 Mordenkainens lucubration: Wizard only. Recalls spell of 5th level or lower. 6 Planar Ally X: As lesser planar ally, but up to 12 HD. 6 Planar Binding: As lesser planar binding, but up to 12 HD. 6 Repulsion: Creatures can’t approach you. 6 Spellstaff: Stores one spell in wooden quarterstaff. 6 Summon Monster VI: Calls extraplanar creature to fight for you. 6? Symbol of Fear M: Triggered rune panics nearby creatures. 6? Symbol of Persuasion M: Triggered rune charms nearby creatures. 7 Blasphemy: Kills, paralyzes, weakens, or dazes nonevil subjects. 7 Waves of Exhaustion: Several targets become exhausted. 7 Arcane Sight: Magical auras become visible to you. 7 Power Word Blind: Blinds creature with 200 hp or less. 7 Scrying, Greater: As scrying, but faster and longer. 7 Insanity: Subject suffers continuous confusion. 7 Prismatic Spray: Rays hit subjects with variety of effects. 7 Banishment: Banishes 2 HD/level of extraplanar creatures. 7 Forcecage M: Cube or cage of force imprisons all inside. 7 Destruction F: Kills subject and destroys remains. 7 Drawmij's instant summons: Prepared object appears in your hand. 7 Hold Person, Mass: As hold person, but all within 30 ft. 7 Limited Wish X: Alters reality—within spell limits. 7 Mordenkainens Magnificent Mansion F: Door leads to extradimensional mansion. 7 Mordenkainens Sword F: Floating magic blade strikes opponents. 7 Plane Shift F: As many as eight subjects travel to another plane. 7 Reverse Gravity: Objects and creatures fall upward. 7 Summon Monster VII: Calls extraplanar creature to fight for you. 7 Word of Chaos: Kills, confuses, stuns, or deafens nonchaotic subjects. 7? Symbol of Stunning M: Triggered rune stuns nearby creatures. 7? Symbol of Weakness M: Triggered rune weakens nearby creatures. 7 Teleport Object: As teleport, but affects a touched object. 7 Teleport, Greater: As teleport, but no range limit and no off-target arrival. 8 Horrid Wilting: Deals 1d6/level damage within 30 ft. 8 Trap the Soul M F: Imprisons subject within gem. 8 Antipathy: Object or location affected by spell repels certain creatures. 8 Unholy Aura F: +4 to AC, +4 resistance, and SR 25 against good spells. 8 Binding M: Utilizes an array of techniques to imprison a creature. 8 Ottos Irresistible Dance: Forces subject to dance. 8 Power Word Stun: Stuns creature with 150 hp or less. 8 Demand: As sending, plus you can send suggestion. 8 Prismatic Wall: Wall’s colors have array of effects. 8 Scintillating Pattern: Twisting colors confuse, stun, or render unconscious. 8 Incendiary Cloud: Cloud deals 4d6 fire damage/round. 8 Bigbys clenched fist: Large hand provides cover, pushes, or attacks your foes. 8 Bigbys crushing hand: Large hand provides cover, pushes, or crushes your foes. 8 Cloak of Chaos F: +4 to AC, +4 resistance, and SR 25 against lawful spells. 8 Dimensional Lock: Teleportation and interplanar travel blocked for one day/level. 8 Planar Ally, Greater X: As lesser planar ally, but up to 18 HD. 8 Planar Binding, Greater: As lesser planar binding, but up to 18 HD. 8 Prying Eyes, Greater: As prying eyes, but eyes have true seeing. 8 Summon Monster VIII: Calls extraplanar creature to fight for you. 8 Word of Recall: Teleports you back to designated place. 8? Symbol of Death M: Triggered rune slays nearby creatures. 8? Symbol of Insanity M: Triggered rune renders nearby creatures insane. 8 Sympathy F: Object or location attracts certain creatures. 9 Power Word Kill: Kills one creature with 100 hp or less. 9 Soul Bind F: Traps newly dead soul to prevent resurrection. 9 Teleportation Circle M: Circle teleports any creature inside to designated spot. 9 Prismatic Sphere: As prismatic wall, but surrounds on all sides. 9 Time Stop: You act freely for 1d4+1 rounds. 9 Gate X: Connects two planes for travel or summoning. 9 Hold Monster, Mass: As hold monster, but all within 30 ft. 9 Mordenkainens Mage’s Faithful Hound: Phantom dog can guard, attack. 9 Storm of Vengeance: Storm rains acid, lightning, and hail. 9 Summon Monster IX: Calls extraplanar creature to fight for you. 9 Wish X: As limited wish, but with fewer limits.
Mist-Bound 09-07-06, 01:25 AM	Magic. (Version 1.26) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Magic. Spell users of the world of wahammer draw upon the winds of magic that are always availeble to them, the skill at manipulating the winds are however difficult. -Do not use spells per day. -Spells take the same time to cast and spells with longer cast-times can be itterupted as normal, requiring Concentration rolls and so on. -Spells has the same effect as normal. - In all aspects anyone using Aethyric attunement to cast spells are Arcane spellcasters. And those using Divine attunement are Divine spellcasters. All the normal rules for these applies. (Unless noted otherwise.) Spells has a DC and, as normal you have to equal or beat this value, and various factors modify the DC. A big different however is that you, if you are skilled enough can use MORE than one d20! At first level a spellcaster recieves the Aethyric- or Divine atunement. This grants them the first d20 for Spell Checks. In effect this is what makes a spellcaster a spellcaster. At higher levels they will get improved versions of this feat giving them more D20's to use. I use the word Attunement to cover both Aethyric- and Divine Attunement. Spell Check DCs. Lvl 0: DC 10 Lvl 1: DC 15 Lvl 2: DC 20 ...and so on inproving with 5 per time. Lvl 9: DC 55 The Spell check can be modfied by a range of different things. Your caster stat (Int, Wis, Cha) bonus gives a bonus to the spell check As a move action you can take a "concentration manouver". This requires a Concentration check DC 15 +level of spell. If succesfull you add your caster level to the check. No verbal: -5 (If you have the Silent Spell feat) No somatic: -5 (If you have the Still Spell feat) No focus: -10 No divine focus: -10 No material: Varies. As a rule of thumb -1 per level (-1 for lvl 0, -10 for lvl 9.) College spells: Any wizard gain +2 to cast spells from their own spelllist (that is, not spells from the All-list). Domaon spells: All divine users gain +2 to cast spells from their domains. (This is also true if they already have the spells form the normal divine spelllist.) If a spell costs XP you have to pay it, this can not be ignored. Assistance from others will also grant a bonus. They have to roll a Spellcraft check DC 10. If succeeding they will give a +1 bonus. Increased to +2 if they got Aethyric attunement. Improve this to +4 for Imp. aethyric attunement, +6 for Greater and +8 for Aethyric Mastery. Sacrifices might also give a bonus, depending on the sacrifice, the deity, and the GM. The power of the winds of magic is different in different parts of the world. The GM should feel free to ad or substract from 1-10 to the spell check. Some places you might even lose a D20 or get an additional one! Or get a modifier to each die. Spelllist (College magic) (Version 1.24) lvl Amber 0 Know Direction: You discern north. 1 Endure Elements: Exist comfortably in hot or cold environments. 1 Calm Animals: Calms (2d4 + level) HD of animals. 1 Charm Animal: Makes one animal your friend. 1 Detect Animals: Detects kinds of animals. 1 Hide from Animals: Animals can’t perceive one subject/level. 1 Longstrider: Increases your speed. 1 Magic Fang: One natural weapon of subject creature gets +1 on attack and damage rolls. 1 Speak with Animals: You can communicate with animals. 2 Animal Messenger: Sends a Tiny animal to a specific place. 2 Animal Trance: Fascinates 2d6 HD of animals. 2 Barkskin: Grants +2 (or higher) enhancement to natural armor. 2 Bear’s Endurance: Subject gains +4 to Con for 1 min./level. 2 Bull’s Strength: Subject gains +4 to Str for 1 min./level. 2 Cat’s Grace: Subject gains +4 to Dex for 1 min./level. 2 Eagle’s Splendor: Subject gains +4 to Cha for 1 min./level. 2 Fox’s Cunning: Subject gains +4 Int for 1 min./level. 2 Owl’s Wisdom: Subject gains +4 to Wis for 1 min./level. 2 Reduce Animal: Shrinks one willing animal. 3 Fly: Subject flies at speed of 60 ft. 3 Flame Arrow: Arrows deal +1d6 fire damage. 3 Magic Fang, Greater: One natural weapon of subject creature gets +1/four levels on attack and damage rolls (max +5). 3 Rage: Gives +2 to Str and Con, +1 on Will saves, –2 to AC. 4 Polymorph: Gives one willing subject a new form. 5 Animal Growth: One animal/two levels doubles in size. 6 Bull’s Strength, Mass: As bull’s strength, affects one subject/ level. 6 Bear’s Endurance, Mass: As bear’s endurance, affects one subject/ level. 6 Cat’s Grace, Mass: As cat’s grace, affects one subject/level. 6 Eagle’s Splendor, Mass: As eagle’s splendor, affects one subject/level. 6 Fox’s Cunning, Mass: As fox’s cunning, affects one subject/ level. 6 Owl’s Wisdom, Mass: As owl’s wisdom, affects one subject/ level. 7 Creeping Doom: Swarms of centipedes attack at your command. 8 Animal Shapes: One ally/level polymorphs into chosen animal. lvl Amethyst 0 Touch of Fatigue: Touch attack fatigues target. 1 Cause Fear: One creature of 5 HD or less flees for 1d4 rounds. 1 Chill Touch: One touch/level deals 1d6 damage and possibly 1 Str damage. 1 Deathwatch: Reveals how near death subjects within 30 ft. are. 1 Mount: Summons riding horse for 2 hours/level. 1 Ray of Enfeeblement: Ray deals 1d6 +1 per two levels Str damage. 2 Blindness/Deafness: Makes subject blind or deaf. 2 Death Knell: Kills dying creature; you gain 1d8 temporary hp, +2 to Str, and +1 level. 2 False Life: Gain 1d10 temporary hp +1/level (max +10). 2 Ghoul Touch: Paralyzes one subject, which exudes stEnch 2 Scare: Panics creatures of less than 6 HD. 2 See Invisibility: Reveals invisible creatures or objects. 3 Ray of Exhaustion: Ray makes subject exhausted. 3 Speak with Dead: Corpse answers one question/two levels. 3 Vampiric Touch: Touch deals 1d6/two levels damage; caster gains damage as hp. 4 Crushing Despair: Subjects take –2 on attack rolls, damage rolls, saves, and checks. 4 Enervation: Subject gains 1d4 negative levels. 4 Fear: Subjects within cone flee for 1 round/level. 5 Cloudkill: Kills 3 HD or less; 4–6 HD save or die, 6+ HD take Con damage. 5 Death Ward: Grants immunity to all death spells and negative energy effects. 5 Rarys Telepathic Bond: Link lets allies communicate. 5 Slay Living: Touch attack kills subject. 6 Circle of Death M: Kills 1d4/level HD of creatures. 6 Harm: Deals 10 points/level damage to target. 6 Inflict Moderate Wounds, Mass: Deals 2d8 damage +1/level to many creatures. command. 7 Finger of Death: Kills one subject. 8 Horrid Wilting: Deals 1d6/level damage within 30 ft. 8 Incendiary Cloud: Cloud deals 4d6 fire damage/round. (not fire damage) 8 Temporal Stasis M: Puts subject into suspended animation. 8 Trap the Soul M F: Imprisons subject within gem. 9 Energy Drain: Subject gains 2d4 negative levels. 9 Wail of the Banshee: Kills one creature/level. lvl Bright 1 Endure Elements: Exist comfortably in hot or cold environments. 1 Burning Hands: 1d4/level fire damage (max 5d4). 1 Produce Flame: 1d6 damage +1/level, touch or thrown. 2 Continual Flame M: Makes a permanent, heatless torch. 2 Flame Blade: Touch attack deals 1d8 +1/two levels damage. 2 Flaming Sphere: Creates rolling ball of fire, 2d6 damage, lasts 1 round/level. 2 Pyrotechnics: Turns fire into blinding light or choking smoke. 2 Scorching Ray: Ranged touch attack deals 4d6 fire damage, +1 ray/four levels (max 3). 3 Fly: Subject flies at speed of 60 ft. 3 Flame Arrow: Arrows deal +1d6 fire damage. 3 Fireball: 1d6 damage per level, 20-ft. radius. 3 Quench: Extinguishes nonmagical fires or one magic item. 4 Fire Shield: Creatures attacking you take fire damage; you’re protected from heat or cold. 4 Wall of Fire: Deals 2d4 fire damage out to 10 ft. and 1d4 out to 20 ft. Passing through wall deals 2d6 damage +1/level. 6 Disintegrate:Makes one creature or object vanish. 7 Delayed Blast Fireball: 1d6/level fire damage; you can postpone blast for 5 rounds. 7 Destruction F: Kills subject and destroys remains. 7 Fire Storm: Deals 1d6/level fire damage. 8 Incendiary Cloud: Cloud deals 4d6 fire damage/round. lvl Celesstial 0 Guidance: +1 on one attack roll, saving throw, or skill check. 1 Bane: Enemies take –1 on attack rolls and saves against fear. 1 Detect Secret Doors: Reveals hidden doors within 60 ft. 1 True Strike: +20 on your next attack roll. 2 Augury M F: Learns whether an action will be good or bad. 2 Find Traps: Notice traps as a rogue does. 2 Locate Object: Senses direction toward object (specific or type). 3 Daylight: 60-ft. radius of bright light. (only it’s not as bright as daylight, just as bright as clear night sky) 3 Call Lightning: Calls down lightning bolts (3d6 per bolt) from sky. 3 Clairaudience/Clairvoyance: Hear or see at a distance for 1 min./level. 3 Good Hope: Subjects gain +2 on attack rolls, damage rolls, saves, and checks. 3 Lightning Bolt: Electricity deals 1d6/level damage. 4 Scrying F: Spies on subject from a distance. 4 Bestow Curse: –6 to an ability score; –4 on attack rolls, saves, and checks; or 50% chance of losing each action. 4 Discern Lies: Reveals deliberate falsehoods. 4 Divination M: Provides useful advice for specific proposed actions. 4 Locate Creature: Indicates direction to familiar creature. 4 Remove Curse: Frees object or person from curse. 5 Call Lightning Storm: As call lightning, but 5d6 damage per bolt. 5 Mark of Justice: Designates action that will trigger curse on subject. 6 Chain Lightning: 1d6/level damage; 1 secondary bolt/level each deals half damage. 6 Find the Path: Shows most direct way to a location. 7 Scrying, Greater: As scrying, but faster and longer. 7 Vision M X: As legend lore, but quicker and strenuous. 8 Discern Location: Reveals exact location of creature or object. 8 Moment of Prescience: You gain insight bonus on single attack roll, check, or save. 9 Foresight: “Sixth sense” warns of impending danger. 9 Meteor Swarm: Four exploding spheres each deal 6d6 fire damage. lvl Jade 0 Create Water: Creates 2 gallons/level of pure water. 1 Cure Minor Wounds: Cures 1 point of damage. 1 Detect Plants: Detects kinds of plants. 1 Longstrider: Increases your speed. 1 Detect Snares and Pits: Reveals natural or primitive traps. 1 Entangle: Plants entangle everyone in 40-ft.-radius circle. 1 Goodberry: 2d4 berries each cure 1 hp (max 8 hp/24 hours). 1 Obscuring Mist: Fog surrounds you. 1 Pass without Trace: One subject/level leaves no tracks. 1 Shillelagh: Cudgel or quarterstaff becomes +1 weapon (1d10 damage) for 1 min./level. 2 Cure Light Wounds: Cures 1d8 damage +1/level (max +5). 2 Barkskin: Grants +2 (or higher) enhancement to natural armor. 2 Fog Cloud: Fog obscures vision. 2 Soften Earth and Stone: Turns stone to clay or dirt to sand or mud. 2 Tree Shape: You look exactly like a tree for 1 hour/level. 2 Warp Wood: Bends wood (shaft, handle, door, plank). 2 Wood Shape: Rearranges wooden objects to suit you. 3 Restoration, Lesser: Dispels magical ability penalty or repairs 1d4 ability damage. 3 Create Food and Water: Feeds three humans (or one horse)/level. 3 Neutralize Poison: Immunizes subject against poison, detoxifies venom in or on subject. 3 Plant Growth: Grows vegetation, improves crops. 3 Snare: Creates a magic booby trap. 3 Speak with Plants: You can talk to normal plants and plant creatures. 4 Cure Moderate Wounds: Cures 2d8 damage +1/level (max +10). 4 Antiplant Shell: Keeps animated plants at bay. 4 Command Plants: Sway the actions of one or more plant creatures. 4 Solid Fog: Blocks vision and slows movement. 5 Restoration M: Restores level and ability score drains. 5 Cure Serious Wounds: Cures 3d8 damage +1/level (max +15). 5 Awaken X: Tree gains human intellect. 5 Baleful Polymorph: Transforms subject into harmless animal. 5 Commune with Nature: Learn about terrain for 1 mile/level. 5 Control Winds: Change wind direction and speed. 5 Passwall: Creates passage through wood or stone wall. 5 Tree Stride: Step from one tree to another far away. 5 Wall of Thorns: Thorns damage anyone who tries to pass. 6 Cure Critical Wounds: Cures 4d8 damage +1/level (max +20). 6 Control Water: Raises or lowers bodies of water. 6 Ironwood: Magic wood is strong as steel. 6 Liveoak: Oak becomes treant guardian. 6 Transport via Plants: Move instantly from one plant to another of the same kind. 7 Animate Plants: One or more plants animate and fight for you. 7 Control Weather: Changes weather in local area. 7 Restoration, Greater X: As restoration, plus restores all levels and ability scores. 8 Earthquake: Intense tremor shakes 80-ft.-radius. 8 Control Plants: Control actions of one or more plant creatures. 9 Regenerate: Subject’s severed limbs grow back, cures 4d8 damage +1/level (max +35). 9 Shambler: Summons 1d4+2 shambling mounds to fight for you. lvl Light 0 Flare: Dazzles one creature (–1 on attack rolls). 1 Entropic Shield: Ranged attacks against you have 20% miss chance. 1 Cure Minor Wounds: Cures 1 point of damage. 1 Faerie Fire: Outlines subjects with light, canceling blur, concealment, and the like. 1 Color Spray: Knocks unconscious, blinds, and/or stuns weak creatures. 1 Comprehend Languages: You understand all spoken and written languages. 2 Protection from Arrows: Subject immune to most ranged attacks. 2 Cure Light Wounds: Cures 1d8 damage +1/level (max +5). 2 Fox’s Cunning: Subject gains +4 Int for 1 min./level. 3 See Invisibility: Reveals invisible creatures or objects. 3 Daylight: 60-ft. radius of bright light. 3 Searing Light: Ray deals 1d8/two levels damage, more against undead. 3 Sepia Snake Sigil M: Creates text symbol that immobilizes reader. 3 Tongues: Speak any language. 4 Orders wrath: Damage and dazes chaotic creatures. 4 Cure Moderate Wounds: Cures 2d8 damage +1/level (max +10). 4 Dimensional Anchor: Bars extradimensional movement. 4 Discern Lies: Reveals deliberate falsehoods. 4 Flame Strike: Smite foes with divine fire (1d6/level damage). 5 Cure Serious Wounds: Cures 3d8 damage +1/level (max +15). 5 Break Enchantment: Frees subjects from enchantments, alterations, curses, and petrification. 5 Dismissal: Forces a creature to return to native plane. 5 Dispel Chaos: +4 bonus against attacks. 6 Cure Critical Wounds: Cures 4d8 damage +1/level (max +20). 6 Forbiddance M: Blocks planar travel, damages creatures of different alignment. 6 Legend Lore M F: Lets you learn tales about a person, place, or thing. 6 True Seeing M: Lets you see all things as they really are. 7 Banishment: Banishes 2 HD/level of extraplanar creatures. 7 Forcecage M: Cube or cage of force imprisons all inside. 7 Sunbeam: Beam blinds and deals 4d6 damage. 8 Binding M: Utilizes an array of techniques to imprison a creature. 8 Shield of Law F: +4 to AC, +4 resistance, and SR 25 against chaotic spells. 8 Sunburst: Blinds all within 10 ft., deals 6d6 damage. 9 Time Stop: You act freely for 1d4+1 rounds. lvl Gold 0 Arcane Mark: Inscribes a personal rune (visible or invisible). 1 Endure Elements: Exist comfortably in hot or cold environments. 1 Nystrals magic aura: Alters object’s magic aura. 1 Faerie Fire: Outlines subjects with light, canceling blur, concealment, and the like. 1 Burning Hands: 1d4/level fire damage (max 5d4). 1 Enlarge Person: Humanoid creature doubles in size. 1 Erase: Mundane or magical writing vanishes. 1 Identify M: Determines properties of magic item. 2 Protection from Arrows: Subject immune to most ranged attacks. 2 Bear’s Endurance: Subject gains +4 to Con for 1 min./level. 2 Bull’s Strength: Subject gains +4 to Str for 1 min./level. 2 Cat’s Grace: Subject gains +4 to Dex for 1 min./level. 2 Eagle’s Splendor: Subject gains +4 to Cha for 1 min./level. 2 Fox’s Cunning: Subject gains +4 Int for 1 min./level. 2 Soften Earth and Stone: Turns stone to clay or dirt to sand or mud. 2 Glitterdust: Blinds creatures, outlines invisible creatures. 2 Heat Metal: Make metal so hot it damages those who touch it. 2 Make Whole: Repairs an object. 3 Explosive Runes: Deals 6d6 damage when read. 3 Glyph of Warding M: Inscription harms those who pass it. 3 Magic Vestment: Armor or shield gains +1 enhancement per four levels. 3 Keen Edge: Doubles normal weapon’s threat range. 3 Shrink Item: Object shrinks to one-sixteenth size. 3 Slow: One subject/level takes only one action/round, –1 to AC, reflex saves, and attack rolls. 4 Fire Trap M: Opened object deals 1d4 +1/level damage. 4 Globe of Invulnerability, Lesser: Stops 1st- through 3rd-level spell effects. 4 Imbue with Spell Ability: Transfer spells to subject. 4 Minor Creation: Creates one cloth or wood object. 4 Polymorph: Gives one willing subject a new form. 4 Rusting Grasp: Your touch corrodes iron and alloys. 4 Stoneskin M: Ignore 10 points of damage per attack. 5 Break Enchantment: Frees subjects from enchantments, alterations, curses, and petrification. 5 Fabricate: Transforms raw materials into finished items. 5 Major Creation: As minor creation, plus stone and metal. 5 Permanency X:Makes certain spells permanent. 5 Symbol of Pain M: Triggered rune wracks nearby creatures with pain. 5 Symbol of Sleep M: Triggered rune puts nearby creatures into catatonic slumber. 5 Transmute Mud to Rock: Transforms two 10-ft. cubes per level. 5 Transmute Rock to Mud: Transforms two 10-ft. cubes per level. 6 Globe of Invulnerability: As lesser globe of invulnerability, plus 4th-level spell effects. 6 Glyph of Warding, Greater: As glyph of warding, but up to 10d8 damage or 6th-level spell. 6 Analyze Dweomer F: Reveals magical aspects of subject. 6 Guards and Wards: Array of magic effects protect area. 6 Stone to Flesh: Restores petrified creature. 6 Flesh to Stone: Turns subject creature into statue. 6 Symbol of Fear M: Triggered rune panics nearby creatures. 6 Symbol of Persuasion M: Triggered rune charms nearby creatures. 6 Tensers Transformation M: You gain combat bonuses. 6 Wall of Iron M: 30 hp/four levels; can topple onto foes. 7 Statue: Subject can become a statue at will. 7 Symbol of Stunning M: Triggered rune stuns nearby creatures. 7 Symbol of Weakness M: Triggered rune weakens nearby creatures. 7 Transmute Metal to Wood: Metal within 40 ft. becomes wood. 8 Incendiary Cloud: Cloud deals 4d6 fire damage/round. 8 Polymorph Any Object: Changes any subject into anything else. 8 Repel Metal or Stone: Pushes away metal and stone. 8 Symbol of Death M: Triggered rune slays nearby creatures. 8 Symbol of Insanity M: Triggered rune renders nearby creatures insane. 9 Implosion: Kills one creature/round. lvl Grey 0 Daze Monster: Living creature of 6 HD or less loses next action. 1 Command: One subject obeys selected command for 1 round. 1 Confusion, lesser: One creature is confused for 1 round. 1 Disguise Self: Changes your appearance. 1 Silent Image: Creates minor illusion of your design. 2 Alter Self: Assume form of a similar creature. 2 Blur: Attacks miss subject 20% of the time. 2 Darkness: 20-ft. radius of supernatural shadow. 2 Darkvision: See 60 ft. in total darkness. 2 Detect Thoughts: Allows “listening” to surface thoughts. 2 Minor Image: As silent image, plus some sound. 2 Mirror Image: Creates decoy duplicates of you (1d4 +1 per three levels, max 8). 2 Misdirection: Misleads divinations for one creature or object. 2 Obscure Object: Masks object against scrying. 2 Scare: Panics creatures of less than 6 HD. 2 Silence: Negates sound in 20-ft. radius. 3 Invisibility: Subject is invisible for 1 min./level or until it attacks. 3 Illusory Script M: Only intended reader can decipher. 3 Deeper Darkness: Object sheds supernatural shadow in 60-ft. radius. 3 Displacement: Attacks miss subject 50%. 3 Major Image: As silent image, plus sound, smell and thermal effects. 3 Nondetection M: Hides subject from divination, scrying. 3 Suggestion: Compels subject to follow stated course of action. 3 Phantom Trap M: Makes item seem trapped. 4 Confusion: Subjects behave oddly for 1 round/level. 4 Fear: Subjects within cone flee for 1 round/level. 4 Geas, Lesser: Commands subject of 7 HD or less. 4 Hallucinatory Terrain: Makes one type of terrain appear like another (field into forest, or the like). 4 Illusory Wall: Wall, floor, or ceiling looks real, but anything can pass through. 4 Invisibility, Greater: As invisibility, but subject can attack and stay invisible. 4 Modify Memory: Changes 5 minutes of subject’s memories. 4 Phantasmal Killer: Fearsome illusion kills subject or deals 3d6 damage. 4 Shadow Conjuration: Mimics conjuration below 4th level, but only 20% real. 5 Command, Greater: As command, but affects one subject/level. 5 Dominate Person: Controls humanoid telepathically. 5 False Vision M: Fools scrying with an illusion. 5 Mirage Arcana: As hallucinatory terrain, plus structures. 5 Persistent Image: As major image, but no concentration required. 5 Seeming: Changes appearance of one person per two levels. 5 Shadow Evocation: Mimics evocation below 5th level, but only 20% real. 6 Geas/Quest: As lesser geas, plus it affects any creature. 6 Mislead: Turns you invisible and creates illusory double. 6 Permanent Image: Includes sight, sound, and smell. 6 Programmed Image M: As major image, plus triggered by event. 6 Shadow Walk: Step into shadow to travel rapidly. 6 Suggestion, Mass: As suggestion, plus one subject/level. 6 Spellstaff: Stores one spell in wooden quaterstaff. 6 Veil: Changes appearance of group of creatures. 7 Prismatic Spray: Rays hit subjects with variety of effects. 7 Project Image: Illusory double can talk and cast spells. 7 Shadow Conjuration, Greater: As shadow conjuration, but up to 6th level and 60% real. 8 Invisibility, Mass: As invisibility, but affects all in range. 8 Ethereal Jaunt: You become ethereal for 1 round/level. 8 Screen: Illusion hides area from vision, scrying. 8 Shadow Evocation, Greater: As shadow evocation, but up to 7th level and 60% real. 9 Etherealness: Travel to Ethereal Plane with companions. 9 Shades: As shadow conjuration, but up to 8th level and 80% real. 9 Weird: As phantasmal killer, but affects all within 30 ft. lvl All/universal 0 Daze Monster: Living creature of 6 HD or less loses next action. 0 Dancing Lights: Creates torches or other lights. 0 Detect Magic: Detects spells and magic items within 60 ft. 0 Ghost Sound: Figment sounds. 0 Light: Object shines like a torch. 0 Mage Hand: 5-pound telekinesis. 0 Mending: Makes minor repairs on an object. 0 Message: Whispered conversation at distance. 0 Open/Close: Opens or closes small or light things. 0 Prestidigitation: Performs minor tricks. 0 Read Magic: Read scrolls and spellbooks. 0 Resistance: Subject gains +1 bonus on saving throws. 1 Grease: Makes 10-ft. square or one object slippery. 1 Sleep: Puts 4 HD of creatures into magical slumber. 1 Animate Rope: Makes a rope move at your command. 1 Erase: Mundane or magical writing vanishes. 1 Identify M: Determines properties of magic item. 1 Alarm: Wards an area for 2 hours/level. 1 Charm Person: Makes one person your friend. 1 Expeditious Retreat: Your speed increases by 30 ft. 1 Feather Fall: Objects or creatures fall slowly. 1 Mage Armor: Gives subject +4 armor bonus. 1 Magic Missile: 1d4+1 damage; +1 missile per two levels above 1st (max 5). 1 Magic Weapon: Weapon gains +1 bonus. 1 Shield: Invisible disc gives +4 to AC, blocks magic missiles. 1 Unseen Servant: Invisible force obeys your commands. 1 Ventriloquism: Throws voice for 1 min./level. 2 Arcane Lock M: Magically locks a portal or chest. 2 Daze: Humanoid creature of 4 HD or less loses next action. 2 Gust of wind: Blows away or knocks down smaller cretures. 2 Knock: Opens locked or magically sealed door. 2 Levitate: Subject moves up and down at your direction. 2 Resist Energy: Ignores 10 (or more) points of damage/attack from specified energy type. 2 Spectral Hand: Creates disembodied glowing hand to deliver touch attacks. 2 Whispering Wind: Sends a short message 1 mile/level. 3 Deep Slumber: Puts 10 HD of creatures to sleep. 3 Arcane Sight, Greater: As arcane sight, but also reveals magic effects on creatures and objects. 3 Slow: One subject/level takes only one action/round, –1 to AC, reflex saves, and attack rolls. 3 Dispel Magic: Cancels magical spells and effects. 3 Haste: One creature/level moves faster, +1 on attack rolls, AC, and Reflex saves. 3 Magic Weapon, Greater: +1/four levels (max +5). 3 Protection from Energy: Absorb 12 points/level of damage from one kind of energy. 4 Tongues: Speak any language. 4 Air Walk: Subject treads on air as if solid (climb at 45-degree angle). 4 Arcane Eye: Invisible floating eye moves 30 ft./round. 4 Detect Scrying: Alerts you of magical eavesdropping. 4 Spell Immunity: Subject is immune to one spell per four levels. 5 Spell Resistance: Subject gains SR 12 + level. 5 Telekinesis: Moves object, attacks creature, or hurls object or creature. 5 Wall of Force:Wall is immune to damage. 6 Analyze Dweomer F: Reveals magical aspects of subject. 6 Animate Objects: Objects attack your foes. 6 Antimagic Field: Negates magic within 10 ft. 6 Dispel Magic, Greater: As dispel magic, but +20 on check. 7 Arcane Sight: Magical auras become visible to you. 7 Power Word Blind: Blinds creature with 200 hp or less. 7 Spell Turning: Reflect 1d4+6 spell levels back at caster. 8 Binding M: Utilizes an array of techniques to imprison a creature. 8 Otilukes Telekinetic Sphere: As resilient sphere, but you move sphere telekinetically. 8 Power Word Stun: Stuns creature with 150 hp or less. 8 Spell Immunity, Greater: As spell immunity, but up to 8th-level spells. Magic feats. Special feats: Aethyric attunement. Allows you to see the winds of magic and tune into them. Allows you to make spellchecks using a D20. Improved aethyric attunement. Grant another d20 to spell checks. Greater aethyric attunement. Gives an additional d20 to spell checks. Aethyric mastery. The final level of attunement gives another d20 to spell checks. Divine attunement. Allows you to use divine magic. Allows you to make spellchecks using a D20. Improved Divine attunement. Grant another d20 to spell checks. Greater divine attunement. Gives an additional d20 to spell checks. Divine mastery. The final level of attunement gives another d20 to spell checks. Meta magic feats: Dhar attunement. Prereq: Aethyric attunement. (If the taint system from OA is uded than a level or taint points or some other "chaotic/evil" factors.) When rolling a spell check you roll an extra d20 and remove the lowest d20! (Note that for the purpose of Tzeentchs curse you use all the d20's, including the one gained from Dhar attunement) Qhaysh atunnement Prereq: Aethyric mastery. int 20+ You are attuned to magic in it most pure form, high magic. When rolling a spell check you roll an extra d20 and remove a d20 of your choice! (This can prevent Tzeentchs curse.) Spell mastery. Instead of the usual benefits, this feat gives a bonus to the Spell check with the selected spells of +2. Normal metamagic feats Normal meta magic feats functions as normal, if you want to Empower a spell for instance the check DC just becomes 2 levesl higher (+10 DC.) Miscast If all the d20's your using to cast a spell comes up as 1's the spell fails automaticly. This is for all spellcasters, divine and arcane. Tzeentchs curse Only for arcane spellcasters. If any of the d20's comes up as a natural 20 roll on one of the following tables, determined by how many 20's you got. Apart fro mthe result of the table there are no special effects from natural 20's. You do not automaticly succed if all the D20's come up as natural 20's. All hp damage heals as normal and all ability damage is temporary and regained as normal. (Unless othwerwise noted.) D20 Petty chaos manifestation. (One 20) 1-2 Witchery: within 30 feet of you, milk curdles, wine goes sour, and food spoils. 3-4 Rupture: You nose begins to bleed and continuous until you make a fort save DC 15. You can test once per round. 5-6 Poltergeist: Small items (up to 1 lb) in a 10 feet radius around you hoers in the air for a few seconds and then fall down. 7-8 Breath of chaos: A cold and unnatural wind blows through the area. 9-10 Horripilation: Your hair stands on end for 1d10 rounds. 11-12 Stench of chaos: A foul sulphuric smells spreads in the air around you, it disperses within a few rounds. 13-14 Haunted: Ghostly voices fills the air for the duration of your spell. 15-16 Aethyric hit: The magical energy coursing through you causing you to lose 1 hp. 17-18 Dumbfounded: You channel too much magical energy. You use one less d20 in spells checks for the next 1d10 mins. 19 Whimpsy: The GM can choose any result from this list or make up a comparable minor manifestation. 20 Unlucky: Roll on the Major Chaos manifestation list instead. D20 Minor chaos manifestation. (Two 20’s) 1-2 Kickback: The force of the aethyr knocks you down. You are prone. 3-4 Migraine: A surge of magical energy hammers through your mind giving you a severe migraine. Roll a fort save DC:15 every hour to get rid of it. 5-6 Intoxication of chaos: Roll a Will power check DC: 15 or lose -2 int for the next 1d10 mins. 7-8 Wyrdlight: You glow with an eerie light for 1d10 rounds. 9-10 Aethyric haze: The winds of magic fills your entire vision, temporarily blinding you. You are blind for 1d6 rounds. 11-12 Unnatural aura: Animals within 30 feet of you get spooked, and unless controlled by a successful Handle Animal check (DC:15), flees from the wizard. 13-14 Life of chaos: A small daemonic creature from the Realm of chaos slips trough and scuttles away into a dark corner. If attacked or threatened it will defend itself, having the same statistics as a small animal. 15-16 Aethyric shock: The magical energy coursing through you causing you to lose 1d6 hp. 17-18 Mental blow: You channel too much magical energy. You use one less d20 in spells checks for the next 1d10 rounds. 19 Morbid humour: The GM can choose any result from this list or make up a comparable minor manifestation. 20 Blind fate: Roll on the Major Chaos manifestation list instead. D20 Major chaos manifestation. (Three 20s) 1-2 Witch eyes: Your pupils turn bright red. They revert to their original colour at dawn the following day. 3-4 Silenced: You lose your voice for 1d10 rounds. 5-6 Overload: You are overwhelmed by magical energy and are stunned for 1 round. 7-8 Craven familiar: A daemon imp (stat to come) appears from the aethyr and attacks you next round. 9-10 Chaos foreseen: You get a glimpse of the Realm of Chaos and gain 1 insanity point. (you can chose the Dark Magic feat next time you can chose a feat) 11-12 Aethyric attack: Magical energy burns though you, causing you to lose 2d6 hp. 13-14 Enfeeblement: Chaos energy wracks your body, debilitating your constitution. Your Con is reduced by 2 for the next 1d10 mins. 15-16 Mind numb: You channel too much magical energy. You use one less d20 in spells checks for the next 24 hours. 17-18 Daemon possession: You are possessed by a Daemonic entity for 1 min. During this that time, the GM controls all your actions and when you take control of your body again, you’ll have no memory of what you just did. 19 Perverse delight: The GM can choose any result from this list or make up a comparable minor manifestation. 20 Trick of fate: Roll on the Major Chaos manifestation list instead. D20 Catastrophic chaos manifestation. (Four or more 20’s!) 1-2 Wild magic: You lose control of the magic as you cast your spell. Everyone within 90 feet, including you, lose 1d6 HP. 3-4 The withering eye: Chaos energy wracks your body, debilitating your constitution. Your Con is reduced by 4 for the next 1d10 hours. 5-6 Tzeentch lash: Magic powers overwhelms you, knocking you unconscious for 1d10 mins. 7-8 Aethyric assault: The winds of magic lashs out at you. You take 3d6 damage. 9-10 Heretical vision: A Daemon prince shows you a vision of chaos. You gain 1d10 Insanity points. (you can chose the Dark Magic feat next time you can chose a feat) 11-12 Mindeaten: Your ability to use magic is burned out. You can not use magic for the next 24 hours, and then you can only use 1d20. After another 24 hours you can use another d20 and so on, until you reaches full strength again. 13-14 Uninvited company: You attract 1d6 lesser daemons, they appear out of the aethyr within 35 feet. 15-16 Daemonic contract: You suffer 1d10 damage as a 2” rune of chaos burns into your flesh. At a random location. If you ever get 13 of these it will spell out a contract signing your soul over to chaos. 17-18 Called to the void: You are sucked into the Realm of Chaos and are forever lost. 19-20 Dark inspiration: The GM can choose any result from this list or make up a comparable minor manifestation. The wrath of the gods. Only for divine spellcasters. If all of the d20's comes up as a natural 20s roll on the following table, it doesn't matter how many 20's you roll. Apart from the result of the table there are no special effects from natural 20's. You do not automaticly succed if all the D20's come up as natural 20's. D20 Wrath of the gods. 1-3 Unearthly vision: Your God choses this time to grant you a symbolic but confusing vision, This stuns you for 1 round. But the spell still works if you made the Spell check 4-6 Prove your devotion: A few more prayers are needed to finish casting the spell. Add one move action to the casting time of the spell. 7-9 You try my patience: You cannot cast another spell for 1d10 rounds. But the spell still works if you made the Spell check. 10-12 your cause is unworthy: Your spell fails, even if you made the spell check. 12-14 Stinging rebuke: Not only does your spell fails, but you also lose 2 wis for the next 1 minute. 15-17 What will you sacrifice for this boon?: You take 2d6 damage. 18-19 You have sinned against me: You have somehow angered your god, you must kneel and repent for 1d10 rounds. This renders you helpless. 20 Daemonic interference: Your prayer is answered, but not by your god. Roll on the Major chaos manifestation instead.
Geisterkrieger 09-07-06, 03:45 AM	removed by Geisterkrieger
Mist-Bound 09-07-06, 04:30 AM	Hello Geisterkrieger. This topic is just getting started now, and with all the "good stuff" from the last attempt compiled in one place, our "job" should be easier. Sounds like you'd be a good person to have on this new team- interested in joining? I'm pretty easy to work with- my sole requirement is that you inform me if you'll be cut off or if you're sick of working and want to quit. Other than that, there's no strings. Being something of a chaos fanatic myself, I too considered designing a Chaos Champion PrC- however, my idea was to have it more like the Blackguard PrC; normally it's for NPCs, but a mature player might also have a chance to run with it. I posted various ideas about it in the old topic, around pages 10-15, but my final post there holds my latest idea on the subject: to make a Chaos Worshipper, simply take a PC or an NPC and give them the Ex ability "Mark of Chaos" (see below for details). That sets you up for Cultists and, by applying it to Spellcasters, Magisters. If you want a Chaos Champion, simply add the PrC- and the best thing about doing it this way is that you simply "restrict" the blessings and favours to a character with the appropriate mark, and no need to create multiple PrCs. The Chaos Sorcerer is simply an Arcane Spellcaster with a Mark of Chaos and multi-classed into the Chaos Champion PrC. Extraordinary Ability: Mark of Chaos When a mortal swears their soul to one of the Chaos Gods, then the Chaos Gods respond by rewarding their new slave with a mystical boon as a sign of their pact. This boon is known, irregardless of the form it takes, as the Mark of Chaos, as it is always accompanied by a physical representation, from a ring or amulet to a birthmark or scar, of their patron god's holy symbol. A mortal may only bear one Mark of Chaos at any time; changing one's allegiance to a different god causes the old Mark to fade and a new one to take it's place. The five Marks of Chaos and their effects are as follows. In addition, a spellcaster with a Mark of Chaos may cast spells of their patron diety. Mark of Chaos Undivided: Daemonic Blessing The character receives a +1 Profane bonus to all attack rolls, skill checks and saving throws. Mark of Khorne: Bloodlust The character may Rage as per a Barbarian of level equal to the character's total level. Khorne's abhorrence of magecraft means that spellcasters cannot receive this Mark. Mark of Slaanesh: Jading The character receives a (4+1 per level in Chaos Champion+1 per two levels) Profane Bonus to all Horror, Fear and Madness saves. Mark of Nurgle: Plague Affinity The character no longer suffers damage from disease, although he still bears the symptoms of someone suffering from any disease he might catch. Mark of Tzeentch: Wisdom of the Ever-Changing The character receives one Invocation of Tzeentch. Should the character subsequently gain levels in the Champion of Chaos PrC, then he gains +1 Invocation at each new level of CoC. Red Fire of Alteration- long ranged attack spell Orange Fire of Transition- grants a bonus to attack rolls and saving throws Yellow Fire of Transformation- grants AC bonus or damage reduction Green Fire of Mutation- mind-affecting spell Blue Fire of Metamorphosis- shorter ranged than Red Fire, but inflicts more damage Indigo Fire of Change- enemies must pass a Will save or die and spawn Horrors of Tzeentch Violet Fire of Tzeentch- a disintegration spell My general thoughts on WHD20: The Outsider Rating, Fear, Horror and Madness rules from Ravenloft are a must to use. OR lets us represent the paranoia and suspicion of "strangers" without simply slapping on Charisma penalties, and Fear/Horror/Madness are perfect for a place where terror and insanity are such a major part of the theme. I transcribed a heap of stuff from Van Richten's Guide to the Walking Dead into the old WHD20 topic- those should be of use when we start working on the Undead side of things. Each level a character takes in Chaos Champion, they have a random chance of getting either a blessing/reward or a mutation (the GM can also hand these out as a result of doing things that would earn the attention of a Champion's Patron- for example, tainting a village's wells with a potion that transforms all of the villagers into Chaos-serving Mutants and then getting their neighbouring villages to burn them all at the stake would probably earn a Tzeentchian a glance from the Great Mutator). When a CC hits level 10 in the PrC, compare amount of mutations to amount of boons. If mutations are greater in number, the CC becomes a Chaos Spawn (type changes to Aberration). If it has a greater amount of boons, it is elevated into a Daemon Prince or a weaker Exalted Daemon (type changes to Native Outsider).
Rhialto 09-07-06, 07:06 PM	Regarding sorcerors, warhammer has some very etailed ideas on how magic works. I'm not sure sorcerors fit into the warhammer cosmos, except perhaps as a NPC class for chaos cultists. Having that close a tie to magic should definitely be good for turning yourself into a conduit for chaos.
Mist-Bound 09-07-06, 07:14 PM	Given the magic system we've come up with makes Sorcerer's essentially obsolete (their only major difference to Wizards is their Spontaneous Spellcasting, and under the rules Catzo devised all Spellcasters not only cast spontaneously but also have unlimited spells per day), there's really no need for Sorcerers in WHD20. The average Wizard in Warhammer has an even closer tie to magic than a Sorcerer does, and a Chaos Sorcerer, like I said before, can simply be represented by a multi-classed Wizard/Chaos Champion.
Geisterkrieger 09-07-06, 07:58 PM	removed by Geisterkrieger
Geisterkrieger 09-07-06, 08:23 PM	removed by Geisterkrieger
Mist-Bound 09-07-06, 08:40 PM	So long as you want to work on this, then any time you can spare is fine. By the time the old topic began to dwindle away, I was used to maybe one post a month. I'm having a bit of hard time following your question about Ravenloft, but I have the Campaign Setting (that's 3.5 ed [I think] D20) and that covers Fear, Horror, Madness and Outsider Rating. OR is basically a penalty to social interaction based upon things like your race, grisly scars etc- the rules are in the old topic, and I can post them here. On the last page of the old topic is a transcribe of the racial statistics of another form of humanoid rat- its from the "Mercenaries" D20 Sourcebook, though I can't remember their name. That as well might make a good 'basis'. Restricting technology only needs to be done in terms of what you can purchase and where you can purchase it; no handguns in Bretonnia for example. Ravenloft has rules for Blackpowder (Flintlock style) Weapons, if thats of any use. Where to start... well, we really need to get up statistics for "common" enemies (Orcs, Goblins, Wolves, Giant Boars) and whatever else we need to have the bare minimum to start playing. A big part of me wants to start on Chaos, but we need the foundation before we can start there. So we have a prototype magic system, races and classes... we just need to figure out what else we need for grass-roots adventuring, then do that. Once that's done, we can begin expanding and adding further details.
Rhialto 09-08-06, 04:38 AM	I am actually very interested in contributing to this project, but I'm concerned that a lot may already hae been done (15 page thread - eep!). Is there an indexed summary of what has gone before, and a list of what is to be done? Also, which version of the Warhammer universe is this being based on? WHFRP 1st and 2nd editions had quite different realities in some details, notably Sylvania, Brettonia, and the character of the emperor himself. fwiw, personally, I favour 1st edition, Ken Rolston's not officially published realms of sorcery and realms of divine magic, official realms of chaos books, and later details from various WFB supplements where they do not directly contradict 1st edition WFRP / 3rd edition WFB reality.
Mist-Bound 09-08-06, 05:04 AM	All of the actual genuine detail we worked out before is right here on this page. You just need to read through it. As to what version of the Warhammer universe- the most recent edition, aka Warhammer Fantasy Battle 6th/7th edition and Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay 2nd Edition. The non-contradicted details of the Realms of Chaos books, for example the Chaos Weapon properties, favours and the like, will be utilised as the basis for Chaos this project, but strict adherence is unlikely- we're going to try and "streamline" this for use with D20. Other than that though, we're using the Warhammer Army Books and, when I get it, the 7th edition Corebook. I have the 2nd edition Roleplay corebook as well, so that will also be used. Still interested in working on this project? If so, I'm glad to have you aboard. If you want to look at the old topic, I believe I first joined on page 5, and I know I transcribed the details on all the unique spell lists (bar Chaos and Dark Elves) as well as magic items throughout my stay there. That will be stuff for a later period though. So far, we need to devise the equipment availible, agree on whether or not to use Outsider Rating and/or Fear/Horror/Madness (I can provide the rules- it's what I'm used to doing, as actual conversion isn't something I believe to be my strong point) and "polish" the current classes, races and common enemies.
Rhialto 09-08-06, 06:18 AM	Clerics generally are prohibited from wearing metal armour. Old World clerics are not D&D combat monsters; they are definitely meant to be kept in the centre or rear of the party. However, most cults have templars, which in RP terms are broadly equivalet to paladins, and effectively form the warrior brach of each respective cult. Shallya goddess of healing templar: Sisters of Eloia advanced career: Blameless Martyr Priests of Shallya are comitted to non-violence. Templars may kill in defence of a temple, but beyond that, no. Blameless Martyrs get d12 hit dice and some powers that give them ridiculous damage reduction adjustments. They still can't use weapons though. Manann (Elves: Mathlann) god of the sea templar: Order of the Trident (Mariners) Templars have trident as favoured weapon, and various skills related to navigation, sea piloting, and of course combat. they favour tridents and missile weapons (bow, xbow, or musket). Stromfels god of pirates and shipwreckers Toranam god of mighty rivers Morr (Norsca: Helenar) (Elves: Sarriel) (Dwarves: Gazul, underearth) god of dreams and peaceful death templar: Order of the Brooding Raven (Witch Hunter) templars are dedicated to hunting down necromancers and undead. They get a raven as a pet/familiar and turn undead powers. No particular horse/riding bonuses. Forsagh god of prophecy Myrmidia goddess of soldiers and strategy templar: Order of the Blazing Sun templars are your basic knight in shiny armour. Ranald god of rogues and tricksters advanced career: Rabble Rouser generally, priests are non-violent except in emergencies - they may not initiate a fight. They get skills similar to rogue characters. Rabble Rousers are highly charismatic figures capable of leading impromptu mobs. Works well for adventures in an urban setting. Darah goddess of illussion and revenge Rhya goddess of the nature, fertility, family advanced career: Cultivator advanced career: midwife Cultivators have good farming skills combined with outdoorsy forest skills. Midwives are equally unexciting as a PC class choice. Dyrath goddess of animal husbandry Taal (Elves: Torothal, rain and rivers) (Elves: Karnos, beasts) (Elves: Karog, rivers) god of wilderness and storms templar: Society of the Bear (Scout) Theres not much practical difference between a traditional D20 ranger (complete with spells) and a templar of Taal. Taal forbids killing of animals except for food or self defence. Ulric (Norsca: Olric) god of battles, wolves, and winter templar: Knight of the White Wolf templar: Fangs of Winter advanced career: Order of the Ravening Pack Ulric shuns 'modern' weapons, which means seige artillery, crossbows and muskets. White Wolves are a cross between holy warrior and barbarian. They are seen as an inspiration for personal combat. Fangs of Winter are devoted to killing chaos. Verena goddess of learning and justice advanced career:Torturor demagogue: Witness Priests are forbidden from lies and from initiating violence. This cult is good for language skills, lesser divinition. Torturors are vital for getting justice and determing truth in a court of law (hmm...). As a side skill they are fair at natural healing. Witnesses should probably have some kind of perfect recall ability. Khaine god of murder and madness advanced career: Assassins of the Red Harvest Sigmar god of the Empire templar: Knight of the Fiery Heart witch hunter: Rider of the Cleansing Fire Favoured weapon is the warhammer. Templars are essentially chivalric knights, on horse or foot. Witch hunters are dedicated to destroying chaos and anti-Imperial plots. Jeanne du Lac goddess of Brettonia templar: Knight of St cecilia (chevaliers de notre dame du bataille) Templars are traditional paladins, or as close as teh Old World will get to that. Ormazd god of Araby templar: Order of the Flaming Scimitar fanatic: Order of the Flame Strong on fire magic and fighting the undead, as well as traditional ideals of Araby hospitality. Flaming Scimitars favour horse archery and scimitars. fanatics are acrtive against undead (think hashishin with a specific opponent in mind). The Old Faith advanced career: Forester This is actually the primary faith of the wood elves, in addition to some pockets of humanity. Foresters are esserntially bow-specialist rangers, and the priesthood are druids. Ecate goddess of bitter truth, revenge, and black magic Some minor wizard-like skills This is mostly extracted from Ken Rolston's work. I could expand it further, but I get teh feeling it might already have been done.
Mist-Bound 09-08-06, 06:26 AM	An impressive heap of stuff- I kinda figured we'd need to alter the Cleric class and -especially- the Paladin class. No spells for Paladins, and I'm unsure as to Rangers... though if "Ranger" actually means "Cleric of Taal"... Actually, I think the faith of Athel Loren is actually Elder Elf- I know that Ariel and Kerenous (however you spell it) are "avatars" of at least two of the Wood Elf gods. Not to mention the whole "binding pact with the spirits of Athel Loren" thing. Considering this is going to try be more a D20 campaign setting than WFRPG using D20s instead of D100, perhaps the miscellenous careers (Ratcatcher, Frogwife etc) might be best represented by "pasts"? Or whatever the background concepts from D20 Modern are anyway. What do you think of the Spellcasting rules Catzo came up with? Also, what of the other Classes? Catzo recommended (and I've copied as such) removing spells from the Bard and excising the Monk, but what else did he come up with that you think needs further improving?
Rhialto 09-08-06, 08:46 AM	My take on the D20 classes for Warhammer: Fighter - no change Ranger - we need a spell-less variant for this. Paladin - Rewrite this entirely and replace with cult-specific templar classes. Perhaps have a single class called templar, but about the only thing the various cults would have in common for it would be the hit dice. Barbarian - Probably works well for warriors from uncivilised regions Clerics - Reduce their hit dice and weapon/armour options. Warhammer clerics are definitely less martial than their D&D cousins. The D&D cleric niche is more or less filled by Warhammer templars. Note that magical healing in Warhammer is almost non-existant outside the cult of Shallya, and they don't generally have much in the way of combat options. Druids - This could be worked in as the standard priest class for certain cults. Personally, I'd drop the class and work the various special abilities into detailed kits for each specific cult. Rogue - no change Wizard - The magic system probably needs a radical work over, of the sort that would render the wizard/sorceror dichotomy (and all the other "end the Vancian magic system" classes) irrelevant. Sorceror - Delete this Monk - Delete this. It might possibly be relevant for certain Araby or Cathay groups, possibly even some dark elves but they don't exist in the Old World. Bard - Warhammer magic background doesn't give any explanation for how a bard could cast spells. Delete this class. A Warhammer bard is essentially a rogue with high charisma and a musical instrument or two. Most basic career characters starting out from WHFRP would, in D20 terms, be warriors, rogues, or rangers (hmm... exactly matching the umbrella terms 1st edition used). WHFRP academics would correspond to either commoners, experts, or 1st level wizards or clerics. There's no pressing reason why any of the above classes (including the clerics, wizards, and templars) could not be treated as basic classes suitable for starting characters. We could probably treat WHFRP starting basic careers as D20 modern jobs, with a choice/die roll constrained by starting character class. Most of the advanced careers won't need a specific class to reflect them. Between commoner/expert classes, certain feats, and the wizard/cleric/templar classes, they are all covered.
Rhialto 09-08-06, 09:40 AM	Racial stats: Based off the first posts in this thread: Dwarves: Drop the WIS bonus. They don't seem to me particularly gifted in common sense. Near-suicidal troll slayer (and worse) cults aren't characteristic of high wisdom scores. Wood Elves: favoured class ranger. High Elves: favoured class fighter or wizard. High elves in an Old World campaign would be based from Marienburg initially, and so should have Reikspiel as a language. Alignment: Given that Warhammer has some pretty specific ideas on what law and chaos mean, I'd drop D&D style alignment completely, and replace it with D20 modern's various afiliation/loyalties. Take the following seven items: self family party (travelling companions) home town country race cult/deity And place them in order of personal importance. Maybe just choose 3 of them (as modern does), and assume the rest are of no special consequence to the character. Clerical magic: Healing magic should probably be the sole reserve of Shallya, and ressurection should be utterly impossible, as there's been no mention of bringing anyone back from the dead. Possibly grant some clerics to cast cure light wounds as a spell 2 levels higher, but I'd favour a blanket ban. Chaos champions: treat these as NPCs with a mix of warrior, barbarian, cleric (specify chaos god), and wizard levels. The chaos champion class would be templar (specify chaos god) under this system. Of course, that would in a sense cap their templars at level 10 under the rules noted upthread. As it is a templar class, it counts as a basic class not prestige. It's also probably the only templar that would get a full range of magical ability. Spellcasting rules: I like that spellcasting mechanic, but I'm not entirely sold on it. It's getting late now, so I'll probbaly make a more detailed commentary later. Three points though. High level spells are equally likely to backfire as low level spells. there's no mechanic in place to represent a wizard exhausting his mental mana store. The mechanic doesn't really encourage wizards to focus on lower level or less dramatic spells. WHFRP is definitely at a lower magic level (outside the chaos realms) compared to D&D. Any opinion on http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=696683 ?
Mist-Bound 09-08-06, 10:57 AM	Okay, so I guess you are interested. I agree with you on pretty much every subject except the part about Chaos Champions- primarily because I think we should at least give GMs the option to RP all the races, in much the way Warhammer lets you play all the "sides", good and bad. I kinda favour the magic system Catzo cooked up, partially because I'm having a little trouble following the system you linked too. Remember that Warhammer is "low-magic" in that spellcasters are rare and in that spellcasting is generally avoided- in the style of Terry Pratchett, Wizards are Wizards because they know when not to use magic. Tapping the omni-present force that are the Winds of Magic means that a Warhammer wizard doesn't have limited spells per day like an ordinary wizard; they're literally swimming in fuel. On the other hand, this means it's impossible to perfectly "shape" the energy in the requisite form, which means that they aren't gauranteed to cast spells- hence the use of a quasi-skill check when casting even the simplest of spells. Some Clerics actually would be similar to D&D style ones though; Sigmar, Ulric and Myrmidia are all militant gods -Sigmar especially orders that his clerics actively fight "the enemies of mankind" aka Chaos and Undead- and thus all of their Clerics are trained warriors. Less militant members would generally be apprentices receiving training, or temple-trained scribes and the like (experts) who take care of the mundane side of things, like copying scriptures and painting religious images. I agree with you on the Dwarfs; I think the only reason they got a Wis bonus was to represent that they have such high mental defences- but even the slightest breach of those defenses can be catastrophic, so maybe just a racial bonus to Will saves. In an Old World campaign, High Elves could also be the last surviving members of isolated keeps, left behind from before the War of the Beard and hidden from humanity through elven enchantments. This is proved valid by the "Gilead" stories. Also, healing magic can be cast by certain Wizards- in the Gotrex and Felix stories, one of their allies is a Light Wizard, and they depend on him for his healing magic as much as they do for his flesh-melting energy beams. Seeing as how Metal Magic would probably be focused around Transmutation spells, it might also be able to cast healing spells- it is capable of mixing healing potions, as proved by the Gold Wizard special character.
Geisterkrieger 09-08-06, 08:20 PM	Bard - Warhammer magic background doesn't give any explanation for how a bard could cast spells. Delete this class. A Warhammer bard is essentially a rogue with high charisma and a musical instrument or two. maybe you can make him an Expert with high ranks in perform. I've also found an alternative Paladin/Templar option in AEG's Swashbuckling Adventures (no Spells), so I can check this.
Geisterkrieger 09-08-06, 08:24 PM	removed by Geisterkrieger
Mist-Bound 09-08-06, 08:28 PM	That sounds an idea Geisterkrieger; perhaps we can use this "Templar" of yours as a base class, then make the various "Cult Templars" the 3.5 ed equivalent of "kits"? Basically, you can take a generic Templar -this spelless Paladin of yours- and, if you want to make him "better" you can take a kit representing one of the specific faiths, which "tweaks" the Templar in terms of class abilities, weapon profiles etc. Another argument in favour of Catzo's magic system; though the chance of a Miscast always remains the same -just like in Warhammer Fantasy Battle- the risk of a "Chaos Manifestation"/Curse of Tzeentch goes up- that means a higher spell is not only harder to cast, but if you do cast it then there's likely to be trouble. One little problem that was nagging Catzo with the magic system was: how do you handle a "wizard multiclass"; someone who starts as a member of one College then, after adventuring, decides to "multiclass" as a Wizard of a different College? And do you want me to post Outsider Rating, Fear, Horror and Madness rules or not? ::EDIT:: Nice take on the Lizardmen! Though perhaps we should, at first, concentrate on the beasties of the Old World? Orcs, Goblins, Beastmen, Bandits, possibly even Skaven?
Rhialto 09-09-06, 03:22 AM	Regarding miscasts: the chance of a miscast under catzo's system actyually goes UP as the character gains levels. Consider a level 1 wizard. He can roll only 1d20, which gives him a 5% chance of a miscast. A level 18 wizard with his 4 dice has a 0.95 ^ 4 chance of a successful cast, which equates to a 19% chance of a miscast. Granted, he could choose to roll fewer dice, but then he effectively wastes his extra levels. This, to me, is a serious flaw in the system. It should get easier, not harder, to cast spells successfully as you get more experienced. Regarding templars: A templar class with various kits is exactly how I was thinking of the class. Seems we are on teh same wavelength. Regarding religious classes: There are essentially 3 branches in old world faiths. The militant arm, exemplified by templars in WHD20. The pastoral arm, exemplified by clerics in WHD20, and the monastic arm, which in vanilla D20 appears to be exemplified by adepts. Given that historically most monasteries were centres of farming (especially 'manufactured' foods such as cheese, yoghurt, milling, and cured meats) or even brewing, I'd say that most monks are just commoners with good farming skills and lots of going to church. The senior members of a monastery would be clerics in this model. I still say clerics (even those of Sigmar, Ulric and Myrmidia) should be far less militant than vanilla D20 clerics. Even those deities have need of pastoral leaders. WHD20 clerics should in exchange get a decent variety of leadership and community skills. If you want to build an all out warrior-priest, make a templar/cleric multiclass. The background certainly makes this a very logical character progression.
Mist-Bound 09-09-06, 03:35 AM	Well, I guess we are on the same wavelengths; I had noticed that the more dice you rolled, the greater the chance of a Miscast, but I thought that was actually more "in tune" with Warhammer. Still, if you think we should fix that, then I'm all for it. On Templars and Clerics: so we had the same idea for Templars? Well then, that's the way we'll handle them. And you've convinced me for the Clerics as well. What of the other classes -Barbarians, Fighters, Thieves etc? What changes do they need? Stuff like the Dwarf Slayer I thought would probably be best handled via a race-specific Prestige Class- Dwarfs don't just start out as Slayers, though that does bring up the problem of NPC class Dwarfs who become Slayers... The exact details on Chaos -the Marks, the Magic, the Champion and the Dark Gifts- can probably wait until we get the details for the foundation down. Right now it's more important to have stats for Orcs and ordinary classes that work rather than rules for Chaos Champion PCs. And please tell me whether you want me to post OR, Fear, Horror and Madness already! I'm positive that they'd all be of great use here and it's no trouble for me to transcribe them.
Geisterkrieger 09-09-06, 09:46 AM	And please tell me whether you want me to post OR, Fear, Horror and Madness already! I'm positive that they'd all be of great use here and it's no trouble for me to transcribe them. Sure post it, the Ravenloft D20 campaignbook lies around somewhere in my apartement, but I don't where it is right now, so the post will be good.
Geisterkrieger 09-09-06, 09:50 AM	removed by Geisterkrieger
Rhialto 09-09-06, 11:41 AM	That templar looks good. Regarding feats, I have a feeling that some of the kits will change the available feats radically, adding and removing quite a lot. Morr and manann for example, will not have a special mount. The alignment stuff probably needs the most overhauling, as the traditional AD&D alignment is being dropped, due to how law and chaos having rather specific meanings. Manann, for example, would probably be chaotic neutral under that system, yet he has his templars (called mariners).
Geisterkrieger 09-09-06, 12:43 PM	Feel free to work on it. it's just a rough idea.
Mist-Bound 09-09-06, 03:38 PM	Rhialto, do you think perhaps that you could "polish" the Templar into something that better fits? Hoever, only some of the Gods of the Empire are major enough to have Templars- there was a White Dwarf that detailed the Gods of the Empire, though I can't remember which it was. I recall Sigmar, Morr, Shallya, Ranald, Mannan, Taal (& his wife), Verena, Myrmidia and Ulric being mentioned, though not the others from your list. Oh, and here are the rules from Ravenloft. Outside Rating: A character's Outsider Rating can be modified/determined by its race, physical deformities, social standing or even the gear it carries. OR applies a Circumstance penalty to all of the following social skill checks: Bluff, Diplomacy, Gather Information, Perform. However, it applies a Circumstance bonus to Intimidate checks. Outsider Rating does not affect close friend individuals (such as fellow adventuring party members) or those who share the source of your OR- such as members of the same race. Outcast Ratings reflect first impressions; it is possible for a character to improve its standing. In a single community, each good deed performed for that community and which is publicly known (fighting off an attacking band of marauders, helping bring in the harvest etc) reduces the character's OR by -1 for each good deed performed, dropping it down to a minimum of zero. These OR modifications only apply in that community. Fear/Horror/Madness: These three types of saves are all, in essence, Will saves, sharing the same modifications etcetera. However, luck effects and resistance effects do not affect the saving throw (though Divine effects do). If the character succeeds in making the Will save against the Fear/Horror/Madness check, then it is immune to that source of Fear/Horror/Madness for 24 hours. If the save is failed, however, the margin of failure determines the result. Subract the final check result from the save DC and consult the table below to determine the degree of failure. 1-5 points: Minor effect 6-10 points: Moderate effect 11-15 points: Major effect 16+ points: Major effect plus additional special effect. When determining the results of failed Horror and Madness saves, the player needs to roll a D4 to see what effect occurs. Recovery Checks A character who fails a Horror or Madness save needs to pass a Recovery Check to shake off its effects. In essence, a Recovery Check is simply a repeated Horror or Madness save, with the same DC and modifiers. Passing a Recovery Check, however, removes a failed Horror save and/or reduces a failed Madness save, whilst failing it has no further ill effects. Characters may take 10 on recovery checks. See "Recovering from Horror/Madness" for more effects. Fear Saves A character will typically need to make a Fear Save when facing overwhelming odds and/or immediate dire physical danger. Fear Saves can also be used to test the morale of the party's foes. Example triggers of fear saves are: The group is badly outnumbered/outclassed (EL is 4+ higher than the party level) The group's most powerful member or half the group have been killed A menacing creature is immune to the party's attacks A menacing creature is at least two size categories larger than the largest member of the party A menacing creature has the Frightful Presence special attack The character is helpless and threatened with immediate death (trapped underwater, for example) Determining the Fear DC When a Fear save is prompted by a menacing creature, the DC is equal to 8 (10 if the creature has Frightful Presence) + 1/2 the creature's HD + the creature's Charisma modifier. GMs in a hurry can simply make the Fear DC equal to the creature's CR+8, which nets a roughly equal number. When a Fear Save is prompted by a dangerous situation or by multiple enemies, then the DC is equal to EL+8. This requires some judgement calls on the DM's part- a simple pit trap wouldn't cause a fear save. If the pit was filled with rotating blades and the walls were closing in to push them into the pit though... Circumstance modifiers often apply to Fear saves. All the modifiers below apply to the check and stack with each other. Character or ally possesses a weapon, form or magic or bit of lore that has proven to be effective against the threat: +4 Character or ally possesses a weapon, form or magic or bit of lore that is believed to be effective against the threat: +2 A loved one is endangered: +4 A friend or ally is endangered: +2 Character has defeated a similar threat in the past: +1 Character is in close quarters (no place to run): +1 Character has faced and been defeated by a similar threat in the past 24 horus: -2 Character has faced and been defeated by a similar threat in the past (not within the last day): -1 Character is alone: -1 Character has been reduced to less than half of its maximum HP: -1 Fear Failure Results: Minor Effect: Shaken The character suffers a -2 Morale penalty to attack rolls, checks and saves. Moderate Effect: Frightened The character is Shaken, and also flees if the opportunity presents itself. If unable to flee, it can fight to defend itself. A Frightened character can use special abilities (such as spells) to flee- in fact, it MUST use such means if they are the only way to escape. Major Effect: Panicked The character suffers a -2 Morale penalty on saving throws and MUST flee. It has a 50% chance t drop whatever it is holding, chooses its path at random (so long as the path would allow it to escape) and flees any other dangers that confront it. If cornered, it cowers helplessly. A Panicked character may use special abilities to escape. Additionally, if this effect was caused by a failure of 16+, the character must also make an immediate Horror save (DC= Fear DC-5). Additional Failures: Failed Fear saves stack; a Shaken character who fails a new Fear save becomes Frightened, and a Frightened character becomes Panicked.
Mist-Bound 09-09-06, 05:41 PM	Sorry I had to split this up into seperate posts- was running out of room. Rhialto, do you think you could give me your opinion on races? I know that, eventually, we're going to let players have the option of all the Warhammer races, but for now we'll stick to the Player's Handbook ones. What changes do we need to make to the PH races? Well, other than removing the Gnome, Half-Elf and Half-Orc anyway. Oh, forgot to include this in the last post: Recovering From Fear Fear effects last 5D6 rounds. Certain spells (such as Modify Memory and Remove Fear) can instantly remove all fear effects. Horor Saves Horror Saves are a bit harder to plan ahead for, being that they are always unique in cause. Some sample DCs are given below. Examples of causes for a Horror save include: watching your friend being torn limb from limb, witnessing your beloved transform into a slavering monster, discovering that you slew an innocent whilst possessed by an evil spirit. As with Fear saves, Circumstance modifiers can also apply to Horror saves- see below for examples. As with Fear saves, DM judgement is required; for example, having a villager grab a PC's wife-to-be then transform into a werewolf might grant a +4 bonus (loved one threatened), whilst having the PC's wife-to-be turn into a werewolf when she reaches the altar might inflict a -4 penalty (loved one involved). Characters typically don't need to make Horror saves for witnessing the after-effects of their own intentional actions. The same is true of monsters for their victims. Example Horror Saves: Signs of Violence: DC5 A Decaying Body: DC8 A Scene of Pain or Suffering: DC10 A Freshly Slain Corpse: DC12 A Scene of Terrible Agony: DC15 A Scene of Evil, Cruelty and Madness: DC20 Malign Paradigm Shift: DC25 A Malign Paradigm Shift is discovering that a scene is not only completely wrong, but has been so for a long time; for example finding that you're the only one in the inn who ISN'T a Chaos-worshipping mutant, or that victims of a plague epidemic are actually the victims of unrestrained vampiric feeding- and that they're all still under the vampire's control. Horror Save Modifiers: A loved one is clearly endangered by the threat: +4 A despised enemy is the victim of the threat: +4 A friend or ally is clearly endangered by the threat: +2 A foes is the victim of the threat: +2 The character is of Evil alignment: +1 Character is in an open area (room to run away): +1 Character has been pre-warned: +2 Character has overcome or endured a similar event in the past: +1 A friend or ally is participating in the event (not threatened): -2 A loved one is participating in the event (not threatened): -4 Character is inadvertently responsible for the event: -4 Character is of Good alignment: -1 Character is in close quarters (no room to run): -1 Character has failed a Horror save caused by a similar scene in the past 24 horus: -2 Character has failed a Horror save caused by a similar scene in the past (not within the last day): -1 Character is alone: -1 Character has been reduced to less than half of its maximum HP: -1 Failure Results: If the character fails a Horror save, the player should roll a D4 and compare it to the table for the appropriate failure list to determine the effects. The DM is advised to make a note of the in-campaign date of the failed Horror save and its DC- these will come in handy later. If a Horror save is failed by 16+ points, the character suffers a Major failure and must make an immediate Madness save (DC= Horror DC-5) Minor Horror Effects: 1: Aversion- the character is Frightened, as per the Fear effect. However, though the Frightened status lasts the normal 5D6 rounds, this Horror effect causes the character to become Shaken whenever it comes within 50 feet of the place where this Horror save was failed -or an identical place- until the Horror effect wears off. 2: Fearstruck- the character is Panicked for 5D6 rounds, but once that wears off the character is fine, with no lingering effects. 3: Frozen- the character can take no action for the next three rounds, during which time it is considered Flatfooted. 4: Nausea- the character loses 1D4+1 points of Constitution (though these return at a rate of 1 per hour) and, for a number of rounds equal to the CON lost, cannot cast spells and can only take partial actions. Moderate Horror Effects: 1: Nightmares- the character is, at first, merely Shaken for 5D6 rounds. However, when next it tries to sleep, it awakens after 5D6 minutes with a scream of terror. This occurs every time the character tries to sleep until the Horror effect wears off. This means that the character cannot regain arcane spells and each full day without rest incurs a cumulative -1 morale penalty to attack rolls, saves and checks (maximum penalty -4). The character also cannot regain HP through natural healing. The Sleep spell grants a night of dreamless slumber, enabling the character to sleep normally. However, the character will require a Sleep spell each night or the nightmares simply return. As Elves don't truly sleep, and thus don't dream, they are immune to this Horror effect, which means that it needs to be re-rolled for them. 2: Obsession- the character continually replays the events of its Horror save in its mind, mumbles about them under its breath and tries to direct all conversations towards this terrible topic. The character seldom sleeps, and its distracted nature causes it to suffer a cumulative -1 morale penalty to initiative and Listen, Search and Spot checks, to a maxmimum penalty of -4. The character cannot regain HP through natural healing, and each full week of Obsession causes it to lose 1 point of Constitution. Once the Obsession is over, lost CON returns at the rate of 1/day. 3: Rage- the character must drop any non-weapons in its hands and then rush forward to attack the source of its failed Horror save in melee. This is essentially a Barbarian's Rage, except for the following changes: the character is not in control of its actions, it cannot retreat from battle and it will not stop attacking the source of its rage, even if it has been destroyed. The character must also move towards its victim by the most direct route, even if this takes it through threatened areas. If anyone -even an ally- blocks its path, and it cannot move around them, it will fight its way through the obstacle. This rage lasts for (3+ heightened CON modifier) rounds, after which the character regains control but becomes fatigued (like a Barbarian). 4: Revulsion- as Aversion, but the character becomes Shaken if exposed to anything that simply reminds him of the scene. Major Horror Effects: 1: Fascination- the character develops a morbid fascination with the source of its horror, eventually warping itself into a willing slave to it. The character suffers an effective cumulative drain of 1 point from both Wisdom and Charisma for each week it suffers from Fascination. If either score drops below 3, the character becomes a "Lost One" (see Additional Failure under Madness). Once the character recovers, lost Wisdom and Charisma recover at the rate of 1 each per day. 2: Haunted- the charactr suffers from Obsession, but also loses 1D6+1 Charisma. Once cured, lost CON and CHA return at the rate of 1 point in each per day. 3: Mental Shock- the character's mind completely shuts down for three rounds, after which it can make a new Horror Save to escape the effects of Mental Shock. Failure means that the Mental Shock lasts for another 3 rounds, but the character receives a cumulative +1 Morale bonus to each retry until it succeeds. A character in Mental Shock can take no actions and is considered flatfooted. It will walk if dragged along but cannot run. 4: System Shock- the character must make an immediate Fortitude save (DC same as the Horror save) or suffer 3D6 points of temporary CON damage. Additional Failures: Some Horror effects have outburst durations that can be measured in rounds, but the effects of Horror saves truly linger for days (see Recovering from Horror). A character can only carry a single Horror effect at once; if the character fails a new Horror save, then the character either suffers a new outburst (if the result is of equal or less severity to the previous Horror save) or replaces the Horror effect with the new one (if the result is of greater severity; for example the character was suffering from Rage and rolls Haunted, he now becomes Haunted). Recovering from Horror: Minor Horror Effects last 1 week. Moderate Horror Effects last 2 weeks. Major Horror Effects last 30 days. At the end of this duration (measured from the time of the most recent failed horror save), the character is allowed to make a recovery check (a Horror save with the same DC as the last failed Horror Save) with a +2 Morale bonus. Success means the Horror effect is removed, failure means that it lingers for another duration period, after which the recovery check is tried again. The moral bonus is cumulative. Numerous spells (such as Modify Memory and Remove Fear) can erase Horror effects.
Rhialto 09-09-06, 08:08 PM	Regarding races... Initially, I think we should concentrate on making humans, elves, dwarves, and halflings. basically, anything that can wander around Altdorf without a compulsory escort from the town guards. Coinciudentally teh same races WHFRP had. No half elves or half orcs. Certainly no half halflings or any other half anything. Other races we should eventually create as potentially balanced playable characters are: Elves (dark/high/wood subraces) Dwarves (imperial/chaos subraces) Humans (background material for all human nations, including Ind, Cathay and Nippon) Slann/Lizardmen (GW reworked these horribly after WFB 3rd edition, not sure how to proceed on them yet) Pygmys (Lustria/Southlands natives? Seem to have been abandoned by GW) Skaven Fimir (Fomorian Albion or Cel-esque Albion?) Ogres Orcs (standard/savage/black) Goblins (standard/night/???) Snotlings (not really) Beastmen magic: I'm familiar with wfb 3rd edition and whfrp magic. I'm reviewing the 6E magic rules now to create a summary. GW rejigged their magic rules many times, mostly to simplify it for wargaming purposes, which probably doesnt sit well with making it compatible with a RP environment. templars: On teh back burner for the time being. clerics: Do you think we should recreate the clerical domains that were in use towards the end of 2E AD&D? I think they would work very well for characterising the WH gods. fear and horror: Fear looks good as is. The horror effects don't seem suited to WH - the old world is dark, but not full of gothic terror. Theres no mentality that the heroes can expect to lose, unlike Ravenloft. Probably best to drop that part of the rules. In any case, elves shouldnt have any particular resistance to those effects. Ind, Cathay and Nippon: Is there any canonical material written for these regions?
Mist-Bound 09-09-06, 08:20 PM	I agree with you in that we should, at first, focus on the races that can walk freely through the lands of the Old World without attracting attention- humans, elves and dwarfs. Halflings I'm not too sure about, as WH Halflings are more like decadent Hobbits than Vanilla Halflings. I agree- no half-breed races. 1st ed WHFRPG did have a Half-Greenskin entry in its bestiary, and Gilead's Blood does feature a half-elf in the final "saga", but there's just not enough entries for them. Races to work on after the defaults (Humans -with Regional differences-, High Elves, Dwarfs): Wood Elves Dark Elves Orcs Black Orcs Savage Orcs? (might just be Orc Barbarians) Goblins Night Goblins Skaven (perhaps with feat-chains or PrCs to represent Greater Clan members?) Beastmen (Gors) Beastmen (Ungors) Ogres Chaos Dwarfs (given the limited info on them, maybe best to leave them out) Lizardmen (Slaan are too powerful and rare to be a PC race) Fimirs & Pygmies have been officially removed from the game (well, Fimir have- not too sure about Pygmies), though Amazons remain. I'm not following you on the Clerics. Doesn't 3.5 use Domains? Like War, Strength, Travel, Luck, Evil etc? Glad you like Fear, but what's wrong with Horror? Warhammer is actually Gothic Fantasy, so it should fit, shouldn't it? And do you still want me to post the Madness rules? Oh, and what do you think of Outsider Rating- it's in the same post as Fear? Ind, Cathay and Nippon are enigmas so far- we know they exist, and they get some mention in background detail (Clan Eshin lives in Cathay, for example), but no concrete stuff.
Rhialto 09-09-06, 08:43 PM	This is a summary of magic as presented in WFB 6E. WFB doesn't distinguish between colour (wizardly) magic and divine magic. For WFB purposes, wizard is a generic term for anyone who can cast spells. Each wizard has a level from 1 to 4. Spells do not have any particular level, but do have difficulty numbers to roll against for a successful casting. Each wizard starts out with one spell for each level he has. These are randomly generated from race-specific lists, or from the colour of magic lists. Each turn, the player rolls 2d6 plus one die for each level of wizard in his army. Some magic items may give bonus dice. These are power dice. The opposing player has 2 dice (4 for dwarves), plus 1 for each 2 levels of wizard in his army (round up). These are dispel dice. All these dice are recalculated/replenished each turn. To cast a spell, roll as many dice as you wish (up to wizard level plus one) and compare to the spells difficulty number. Two 1s result in a miscast. Two 6s result in a irresistable force result for the spell. Any spell that doesnt have irresistable force can be resisted by the opponent using his dispel dice and rolling greater than the casters original total. (skip spell list and description of the 8 colours. nb diffuclty numbers range from 3 to 11.) ---- Catzo's rules seem to be a fair translation of the above battle rules. Some notes: - It is possible to drain the magic entirely from a region, albeit temporarily. Too many casters in a small area can rapidly consume all the available magic flux. - The above rules make it quite possible to cast spells all day long non-stop. This is not a good thing for game balance. There really ought to be some limit to the daily casting of spells beyond the chance of a misfire (WFB 3E had mana points). - The chance of a misfire goes up rather rapidly with more dice rolled for a spell. 2.8% for 2 dice, 13.9% for 3 dice, and you'd have to be pretty dumb to risk a level 3+ wizard on rolling 4 dice or more, given the odds for those (which I didn't calculate). Again, I feel this rising misfire chance is a balancing factor that should possibly be dropped from RP rules. - Later I'm going to go through spellcaster profiles in WFB, especially those who use priestly magic, to see just how militant clerics are. - It seems reasonable that travelling fast (at least a battlefield away) would instantly replenish the amount of magical flux around the caster. - Elementalists, Alchemists, Necromancers, and Daemonologists have been retconned out of existance. Some characteristics of these specialists are taken up with race-specific casters or specific colours of magic. I'll follow this up later with a revised spellcasting system later. ETA: 2E cleric domains vs 3E cleric domains. In 2E, clerical domains were classified as major or minor domains, and each deity would have on average 2-3 major domains and 2-3 minor domains. A cleric could memorise any spell from his deity's major domain, and any spell up to 4th level from the minor domains. Any clerical spell outside these domains is utterly unavailable. In 3E, as I understand it, a cleric domains don't affect the PCs main spell choices, but instead give some bonus spells plus a domain-specific feat. Halflings: Of course they need rejigging from what is in D20, just like the other races. But they should definitely be a playable race.
Mist-Bound 09-09-06, 08:59 PM	True indeed. We were actually using the WFB 6th ed rulse as the basis for this magic system of Catzo's, so alterations will probably need to be done. Looking forward to seeing what sort of system you develop from our old one. Oh, and the only "Clerics" in WFB are: Orc & Gobbo Shamans, Ogre Butchers and Empire Warrior-Priests of Sigmar and Warrior-Priests of Ulric (the latter comes from the Storm of Chaos army book). The Empire ones don't even cast magic, instead having a small array of bound spells (which are basically spell-like abilities). This generally means that they're better fighters than normal Wizards- Orc/Goblin Shamans are the exception; they're categorized as Clerics because their magic stems from Divine sources -"The Great Green" spirit-realm and the brother-gods Gork & Mork. And yeah; Elementalism is basically the Lores of Life, Heavens and Fire, Necromancers -which would really just be a variant Wizard in WHD20- work for the Vampires army book, Daemonology is just an "unseen element" of Chaos and Alchemy is under the provenince of the Lore of Metal.
Mist-Bound 09-10-06, 12:59 PM	Oh, and I just got my hands on the Mordheim supplement detailing Mootland, the provinence of Halflings. It's an elec-doc, so do you want me to copy-past the stuff from it that might be useful here? With an understanding of the Halflings as they appear in Warhammer, we should be able to render them into WHD20. So far, to me they look like a hybrid of Tolkien's Hobbit's and Dragonlance's Kender.
Rhialto 09-10-06, 05:30 PM	Oh, and I just got my hands on the Mordheim supplement detailing Mootland, the provinence of Halflings. It's an elec-doc, so do you want me to copy-past... An executive summary would be grand. What exactly does elec-doc mean? I'd rather not use fan sources for background fluff, as very odften they take a different direction from original publihsed fluff. Here's a summary of the 1E description: Small, pot bellied, cannot grow beards. They are noticeably shorter than dwarves, and that plus lack of facial hair makes the two easy to tell apart. They generally do not wear shoes. They are dextrous, stealthy, and have a love of food (all of them can cook well) and socialising. Typically they are about 4' high, and their lifespan is about 135 years. Many of them have a decent knowledge of herbs, essential for making tasty food. Basically, as written in 1E, they are Tolkein hobbits writ large, and nothing like kender.
Geisterkrieger 09-10-06, 06:37 PM	removed by Geisterkrieger
Geisterkrieger 09-10-06, 07:24 PM	removed by Geisterkrieger
Rhialto 09-10-06, 10:39 PM	Religion in Kislev Kislevites worship some of the deities popular in the Empire, notably Ulric (battle, wolves, winter) and Taal (nature, wild animals). However, Kislev also has some deities of its own... Ursun, the great bear god Dazh, god of fire, day, and the sun Tor, god of warriors, thunder, and lightning The army book for Kislev has just one magic using character, and a unique character at that. She can use ice magic, which focuses on cold, storms, and transmutation into un-living ice or ice-based creatures. Arcane vs Divine Magic My take on this is that wizards are casters who study the magical aether and pick out and manipulate the various colours needed for their desired spell. Clerics rely on the advice of a warp entity (aka deity; all WH deities are technically warp entities, just like the chaos gods). The issue is that, as far as any casters that use the colur magic are concerned, this is quite unambiguous. For casters that have their own racial list of spells from a separate list in an army book, there are a few ways to approach this. - Those casters that use these race-specific spells are actually clerics, and that specific list is unique to the racial deities. - These spells are from a banned colour of magic. That works for the dark elves' magic. - Humans are incapable of learning such integrated levels of magic. This applies to high elf magic. perhaps high elf magic should be a prestige class. - The magic in question is from a rare colour of magic that isn't actually commonly known to the empire or the high elves. I feel this solution is utterly unsatisfactory. One issue is that certain races (wood elves, brettonians, etc) have a severely restricted choice of colour magic wizards in the army lists. there's nothing physically stopping a character from those cultures from studying such a colour of magic. However, in their homelands, tutors may be hard to find, and such magic gains no social respect from the nobility. It's not quite on a par with dark magic, but a wizard with such specialties won't ever find themselves popular at noble banquets, let alone get a military comission.
Mist-Bound 09-10-06, 11:38 PM	It's a .pdf from the Mordheim webpage, which makes it official. Essentially, Warhammer Halflings -though not exactly evil- are extremely indolent; a Halfling would rather be sleeping or stuffing pies down his gullet than working. They are light-fingered, greedy (though more in a general hoarding collector way than money-obsessed like their Dwarf cousins) and extremely curious- a visitor to the Moot will find after an extended stay that he's either several valuables lighter or he's left a trail of dead, maimed and injured halflings behind him. It's easier just to read it yourself -I can't copy it unfortunately. Just go to Games Workshop's website (www.games-workshop.com) then go to Specialist Games and, from there, to Mordheim. It's in the Articles section, titled "The Moot". Geisterkrieger; some nice stuff on the races there! And no LA either- that's always good, though some critters (Ogres, Saurus, Kroxigors) will need it. I knew about Kislev having some unique dieites of their own. Kislev Ice Magic is actually a form of arcane magic, it's just that the guilds in Altdorf, well, you know what guild politics are like. Not to mention the fact such magic would probably be seen as "primitive" and "backwater". My own way of thinking about the racial spelllists is this: Dark Magic (Dark Elves) & Necromancy: forbidden lores- humans can practise them, but it's a sure-fire way to get the witchhunters after you. Gut Magic, Waaagh Magic & Tomb King Magic- Divine magic granted by racial dieties. High Magic- the elves don't think humans can handle it, so they haven't taught them. A PrC does work though, because it only makes it more unique. Of course, there's no actual proof that humans can't learn High Magic -in all the places where it's mentioned, all it's said is that the Elves believe humans can't master it without going mad. Speaking of Madness, do you want those rules or not? Chaos Magic- neither arcane nor divine spells, but simply availible to any caster who has a Mark of Chaos. Lore of Athel Loren (Wood Elf magic): this is hard to determine... but personally I go for "obscure branch"; the Wood Elves know it, they study it, but anyone else who wants to learn it would have to get a Wood Elf to teach them. And that's easier said then done. Ice magic is in the same category. But I think perhaps I've lost track of what you were trying to say. I'm sure I have.
Geisterkrieger 09-11-06, 05:12 AM	removed by Geisterkrieger
Mist-Bound 09-11-06, 05:31 AM	I know about the various Winds of Magic. And I agree that PCs shouldn't suffer regional restrictions on their allocated law; by being adventurers, they are exceptional members of their people and have thus gone beyond them. Thus we could have a Male Breton Wizard- such a character is unlikely enogu already, so having him use the wind of fire isn't really that big of a stretch. How to handle the Special Mount... I've no idea. Perhaps some sort of special "divine boon" dependant upon their diety? A generic Templar might get a Divine bonus to attack rolls, saving throws or skill checks (or any combination of the three), a Templar of Morr might get the ability to Turn Undead, a Templar of Shallya might gain a healing ability, a Templar of Mannan might gain the ability to affect the weather as a spell-like ability... you get my drift.
Rhialto 09-11-06, 05:35 AM	At the moment, the magic system I am working on is that wizards gain 1 skill point to spent on learning magic for each level. At least within the Empire, they will be atached to a particular colour school of magic, and they will find it difficult to spend that skill point on other colour schools (consider it a RP task to transfer to another college). The colour system applies to ALL wizards. There are 10 colours of magic that a wizard could spend that skill point on, corresponding to the 8 usual colours, plus light and dark magic. Each skill point is essentially one mana point of magic that can be spent on casting spells of that specific colour of magic only. When you cast a spell, you choose how many dice you want to roll and compare it to the spell's difficulty number. If you roll greater than the spell's DN, the spell works, if you don't, the spell fizzles. If the roll is an exact multiple of 10, the spell has a miscast. miscasts don't affect whether or not the spell succeeds. Mana points are regenerated every hour as the winds of magic blow and restore the local energies. They are also regenerated if the wizard travels a significant distance (at least a mile) by non-magical means (ie teleport doesn't count). (Or maybe not. That idea might just suck terribly). The next major task of course is to identify every spell as belonging to one (possibly more) schools of magic, and to identify some spells as being common to all schools. Issue: Given the common source ultimate of magic for divine and arcane magic, would it be sensible to place both lists of spells into a common pool for purposes of defining these lists? WH never really defined the separate roles for clerics and wizards as D&D did, and a lot of the wizard spells make sense for some of the cults to have. This would entail defining every spell as potentially being in both a magic colour and a divine sphere.
Rhialto 09-11-06, 05:56 AM	A summary of teh different races and their spellcasting potential Slann: all wizards. They are powerful and ancient enough that they don’t need an intermediary to help manipulate magic Skinks: all clerics of ???? (pick a dearly departed slann mage-priest?), using lore of heavens colour magic only. Dark Elves: dark magic is a forbidden colour in the empire and Ulthan. WFB dark elves are all wizards. Priests of Khaine also exist. High Elves: all wizards as presented in WFB. High elf deities include Vaul, god of smiths, Asuryan, the phoenix king, Kurnous, hunter and lord of beasts, Morai-Heg, goddess of the underworld, future, stars, and keeper of souls, and Isha, goddess of the harvest and nature. Kislev: Kislevite ice magic could be treated as divine magic, or could be treated as a generally unknown colour of magic that only Kislevites know of. I feel that calling it divine magic better fits in with the colour magic concepts. Bretonnia: WFB wizards can be treated as D20 wizards, or as clerics of The Lady. Bretonnia also has the usual variety of Old World deities to worship. Empire: WFB wizards can be treated as D20 wizards, or as clerics of any of the more martial WH deities. Priests of Sigmar perhaps as clerics or cleric/templar multiclass. Skaven: GreySeers are clerics, and the Skaven specific list represent spells unique to the Horned Rat. Warlock Engineers are probably best treated as a unique character class. They are vulnerable as any caster to the vaguaries of the winds of magic, but rely on crafted items to actually channel the magical energy. Any skaven caster can eat refined warpstone tokens for extra magical power. Under 3E, warlock engineers could have been treated as simple wizards. Orcs & Goblins: These guys are clerics of either Gork or Mork. Should they even be allowed to take levels as a wizard? Probably not. Curiously, black orcs don’t appear to have shamans in WFB 6E (they did in 3E). Snotlings can't even count all their fingers, let alone cast spells. Goblinoid subraces: Orc: black, savage, common Goblin: night, gnoblar (Ogre Kingdoms), common Snotling: common Beastmen and chaos sorcerors: If they use magic specific to a particular chaos power, they definitely have cleric levels. Otherwise, they may be wizards, clerics, or multiclass. One issue of course is Khorne; he doesn’t have clerics, only templars. None of that namby-pamby pastoral care for him! Ogres: All clerics of the Great Maw. Probably can’t take wizard levels either. Dwarfs: Runesmiths are clerics. Dwarves can’t be wizards at all. Probably all dwarf divine magic should require an anvil and hammer as material components. I’m also thinking of having Living Ancestor as a dwarf prestige class, a guy who can channel the spirits of his ancestors to access their knowledge and skills. Wood Elves: If they are using tree magic, they are clerics (of who? Need more research. Adamnan na Brionha perhaps?) Otherwise, they could be either, or multiclass. Tomb Kings and Vampire Counts magic: These spells are from the amethyst colour college, but are essentially lost/banned lore that empire and high elves either don’t know or don’t want to know. Did I miss any?
Mist-Bound 09-11-06, 05:56 AM	I'm having a bit of difficulty following your system... so basically, at each level a Wizard gets a bonus Skill Point that must be spent on, essentially, a "Spell Casting" skill? And when they want to cast a spell, they need to roll a skill check and beat the chosen spell's DC? I can't really comment on it as yet, but there are a few things that are already nagging at me (for example: what about those magic types -Necromancy, Ice, Chaos and possibly Athel Lorens- that aren't divine in origin but aren't recognized by the Colleges? How do we handle them?). Still, I'll leave that alone for a while. I do have a few ideas for "sorting" spells: *All spells with the "Fire" descriptor belong to the Lore of Fire. *The Lore of Shadow focuses on Illusion magic- especially those that cause Fear effects. *Spells related to summoning, binding, controlling, creating and augmenting the Undead belong to WH Necromancy- the black art created by mixing Dark Magic and a corrupt form of the Lore of Death. Also, these spells are always Arcane- there are no clerical Necromancers. Former Clerics, yes, but no god -not even Chaos- has dominion over the Undead, the renegades of Morr. *The Lore of Heavens is a mixture of Divination spells and spells with a "heavenly" theme. Spells with the "Electricity" and "Air" descriptors work. Also, the last page of the old topic has a transcript for space-themed magics (meteorite, veil of meteorites etc)- that might also be useful. *The Lore of Light might have some spells that manipulate Positive Energy- in WFB, one of its spells is a healing spell. *All spells relating to summoning and binding extraplanar entities are the provinence of Chaos mages- and the only entities that such spells can summon and bind are Daemons
Mist-Bound 09-11-06, 06:10 AM	With the Chaos lores (Slaanesh and Nurgle) I'd make them "special" spells availible to any caster, Arcane or Divine, who possesses a Mark of Chaos. The Lore of Tzeentch is actually best represented as a cluster of spell-like abilities (or better yet Invocations ala Complete Arcane's Warlock) granted to those who bear his Mark- there are no Sorcerers of Tzeentch, and technically no Champions either; a being with his Mark is warrior and wizard. The Lore of Athel Loren is actually an extension of the Lore of Life, tapping into the power of the forest spirits of Athel Loren. Not exactly Divine as such, but Divine might be the way to handle it. Personally, I'd make Ice magic a simple "permutation" of Arcane magic- there's no know Kislevite diety of winter and ice, and nor are Ice Mages presented as Clerics. It's just a specialised way of bending the Eight Winds, seeing them through a different lens, as it were. With Skinks Priests, I agree with you on making them Clerics. However, they can use more than just the Lore of the Heavens- that's the default option, yes, but Skink Priests with the Sacred Spawning of a Lizardman god can also forsake Heavens magic to instead focus on the magic of their Divine Patron. Necromancy -as practised in the Vampire Counts army- is, like you said, an Arcane Lore based on a mixture of the Amethyst Wind and Dhar Wind. The magic of the Tomb Kings, however, is really a mixture of ancient Divine magic and a Divine form of "proto-Necromancy". In fact, it's really better handled as a series of spell-like abilities availible to Liche Priests. By the way, speaking of undead, check out the old topic- pages 13-15 have some stuff on undead I think you'll find useful. Dwarfs, Ogres and Greenskins would be Clerics and incapable of mastering Arcane Magic. In fact, I'd hesitate to even let Runesmith be a PrC- we're talking a field of study where it takes about a thousand years to finish the apprenticeship! The Living Ancestor PrC I like though.
Mist-Bound 09-11-06, 06:19 AM	Tried to edit my previous post to include this, but it wouldn't let me. The gods of the Skink Priests, and the Lores that their faithful can utilise, are as follows: Chotek the Solar God: Lore of Fire Sotek the Serpent God: Lore of Beasts Quetzl the Protector God: Lore of Death Huanchi the Jaguar God: Lore of Shadows Tzunki the Water God: Lore of Heavens Tlazcotl the Impassive: Lore of Metal Tepok the Inscrutable: Lore of Light These were first featured in a WD article; "Sacred Hosts of the Lizardmen" (or something of that title). For further details on the cults on these dieties, simply search Lizardmen Sacred Hosts- you'll find what you need.
Rhialto 09-11-06, 06:28 AM	I'm having a bit of difficulty following your system... so basically, at each level a Wizard gets a bonus Skill Point that must be spent on, essentially, a "Spell Casting" skill? And when they want to cast a spell, they need to roll a skill check and beat the chosen spell's DC? That's the basic gist of the system. It's all still quite nebulous though. I can't really comment on it as yet, but there are a few things that are already nagging at me (for example: what about those magic types -Necromancy, Ice, Chaos and possibly Athel Lorens- that aren't divine in origin but aren't recognized by the Colleges? How do we handle them?). Still, I'll leave that alone for a while. Necromancy is all considered to be part of the amethyst colour college. However, no right-thinking master in the imperial or Ulthuan schools would teach such spells to their students. Essentially, the mere fact that their colour of magic can be used for such purposes is a closely guarded secret by the colleges. If a PC wanted to get to those spells, the relevant scrolls and spellbooks would be the object of an adventure, and he'd probably get shunned by most right-thinking people who witness him casting such spells. Chaos magic: the dark magic used in Naggarond by the dark elves is essentially just another colour of magic, but one that is banned in the empire and Ulthuan. The magic specific to each chaos power is divine magic. Athel Loren's tree magic and Kislev's ice magic is divine magic. This is probably the most controversial decision under this system. Possibly, Athel Loren's tree magic could be a closely guarded set of spells governed by the jade or amber colour winds, but there doesn't seem to be a colour that matches ice magic at all. It doesn't really make sense to say it's a new colour of magic without explaining why the high elves and even the slann have never seen that colour of magic. I do have a few ideas for "sorting" spells: *All spells with the "Fire" descriptor belong to the Lore of Fire. *The Lore of Shadow focuses on Illusion magic- especially those that cause Fear effects. yep. A lot of fear based effects would also count as dark magic. I have no problem with placing a particular spell in more than one colour. *Spells related to summoning, binding, controlling, creating and augmenting the Undead belong to WH Necromancy- the black art created by mixing Dark Magic and a corrupt form of the Lore of Death. Also, these spells are always Arcane- there are no clerical Necromancers. Former Clerics, yes, but no god -not even Chaos- has dominion over the Undead, the renegades of Morr. definitely no particular connection between chaos and undead. There is a note in WHFRP that priests of Morr require special permission from their deity to create undead, implying that it is possible, but I'd retcon that out, as it was probably just a way to explain how those priests could have access to the 'good' necromantic spells and not cast the 'bad' ones. *The Lore of Heavens is a mixture of Divination spells and spells with a "heavenly" theme. Spells with the "Electricity" and "Air" descriptors work. Also, the last page of the old topic has a transcript for space-themed magics (meteorite, veil of meteorites etc)- that might also be useful. *The Lore of Light might have some spells that manipulate Positive Energy- in WFB, one of its spells is a healing spell. All good. I don't want wizards, even light wizards, to have much in teh way of healing magic though - it takes too much away from clerics of Shallya. A little bit of course. But if a light wizard can be an effective D&D cleric substitute, that leaves Shallya's clerics utterly redundant. *All spells relating to summoning and binding extraplanar entities are the provinence of Chaos mages- and the only entities that such spells can summon and bind are Daemons This is one area where I am really torn on how to resolve. Possibly it should be a spell that any wizard or cleric can cast, but fiendishly (if you'll excuse the pun) difficult to cast successfully. Note that most 'good' deities also have various entities that could be summoned, so this isn't exclusively the preserve of chaos.
Geisterkrieger 09-11-06, 08:06 AM	In gme terms I would say we should give the tree magic spells out of the druid's spell list, reflecting the bond to nature, because we won't use druids in this campaign setting. About the magic of Kislev, in the Novel series storm of Chaos, they said they can use the magic, the land of kislev grants them, so I guess they're not really relating on winds. so this kind of magic should be divine. I totally agree in using the 2e cleric domain system. If I remember right it was full access to Main domain and just to the fourth grade of the minor domain. Another thing is, we're totally free to mix spells up, I neither want to have light wizards cast healing spells, but why shouldn't a fire wizard cast flamestrike, and maybe it's just cure light wounds for the light wizard and the priest of Shallya should have access to all the major spells.
Rhialto 09-11-06, 08:50 AM	To save a lot of retyping, does anyone have a list of the SRD spells in line format? It would make adding an extra column for the divine spheres and colour colleges a whoel lot faster that typing teh whole thing from scratch. ETA: http://www.darkshire.net/~jhkim/rpg/srd/srd_revised_html/SpellListI.html
Mist-Bound 09-11-06, 02:47 PM	I'm afraid I don't. Giesterkrieger might though. I do have some rough ideas on what the "Major" domains for some of the Gods of the Empire might be... Shallya: Healing Morr: Repose (see the Gods section on the first page) Mannan: Water Ranald: Luck & Thievery Also, what did you think of my opinion on the "Lores of the Chaos Gods"? The Lore of Light's healing spell, unless we do a more "direct translation" of the WFB spell, would probably be Cure Serious Wounds, with no other healing spells. Given what Giesterkrieger just said about Ice Magic, I think it's just an extremely specialised form of Life magic- Life magic taps plants, stones and nature in general (animals go under Beasts). So why not, in a land where Winter takes up about three-quarters of the year, find a way to "focus" Life magic so that it taps the cold of winter? Also, vanillaD20 spells would be mixed up quite a bit; like Giesterkrieger points out, Flamestrike is perfect for a Fire Mage. Just one question about Necromancy; seeing as how in the background it's stated as being possible to learn Necromancy without having any previous arcane knowledge, are we going to make Necromancer an actual Wizard specialisation or make Necromancer a PrC? If the former, I recommend it having the Weapon Proficiency Scythe or Sickle, and the extra skill "Reign Undead"- we can't give it Rebuke Undead, now can we? I'd also let it have Bind Lesser Undead as a Bonus Feat, and perhaps even Bind Salience and/or Bind Greater Undead. I can post those here if you need them.
Geisterkrieger 09-11-06, 05:35 PM	SRD ??????? no clue
Mist-Bound 09-11-06, 05:42 PM	I think he means the complete list of spells from the Player's Handbook. Or possibly the GM's Guide. I can never remember which one features them all. Oh, and from its description in the WFRPG 2nd ed and WFB 7th ed, the Lore of Metal is essentially Transmutation, with minor abilities in creating Constructs- particularly those based around clockwork and/or fashioned from metal.
Geisterkrieger 09-11-06, 06:02 PM	Nope, than I don't have this list.
Mist-Bound 09-11-06, 06:08 PM	A pity then- that hampers our work. Tell me- you're working on the Templar, right? How's that coming along then? Also, the Templar -or, more likely, the Blackguard- might serve as a good "base" from which to construct the Chaos Champion PrC. The sole requirement for it would, naturally, be having the Mark of Chaos Ex Ability... we would need to figure out exactly what effect each Mark has and how you can get it first though.
Rhialto 09-11-06, 06:20 PM	Just so its clear, I am formally laying no claim to working on templars. However, I do want to lay claim to the magic system, for both clerics and wizards. This is just so we don't end up duplicating each others works. Or we could, you know, all do the same thing and vote on the best or something.
Mist-Bound 09-11-06, 06:23 PM	I know you're working on the Magic System Rhialto; my previous post's question about Templars was directed to Geisterkrieger. I wish there was something I can do, but all I really can do is provide information when it's required.
Geisterkrieger 09-11-06, 06:24 PM	removed by Geisterkrieger
Mist-Bound 09-11-06, 06:28 PM	Oh. Sorry. My apologies Geisterkrieger. I'd work on the Templar myself, but I don't know the first thing about class construction... man, I hate being dead weight...
Geisterkrieger 09-11-06, 06:34 PM	removed
Mist-Bound 09-11-06, 06:40 PM	Yes, that works; a life of constant hardship and battle, coupled with close proximity and (unconscious) worship of the Chaos Gods breeds a stronger, if somewhat dimmer, human. Not all Norse are chaos-worshippers though, and not all of them are evil either. General rule of thumb; the closer to Kislev/the Empire, the less likely to worship the Dark Gods. Sorry, I think I got a bit off-topic. We still haven't agreed on whether or not to use Fear and Outsider Rating, but if so I'd probably give the Norse an OR of 1; the Empire sees them as savage barbarians, and the fact they often serve Chaos doesn't help matterse much.
Geisterkrieger 09-11-06, 06:55 PM	removed
Rhialto 09-11-06, 07:02 PM	I don't see the need for a separate race for Norscans, except perhaps to note that they probably have barbarian as a favoured class. In WFB 3E there was an army list in WD magazine for Norscans. Their basic profile was standard human in all ways. They were also very definitely from the viking mould. Personally, For Norsca I far prefer teh 3E reality, which had a distinct Norscan civilisation. That civilisation is already mentioned in passing in teh lizardmen army book anyway. So perhaps have standard Norse on teh coasts, and further north, some of teh Norse have been corrupted by chaos, and rather than being a subrace as such, they simply have a few gifts from the chaos gods.
Mist-Bound 09-11-06, 07:07 PM	Yeah, Barbarian sounds about right- suitably fighty, yet not disciplined enough. Besides, Barbarian is kinda based on Viking style warriors, and the Norse are psuedo-Vikings, right? And I say we haven't agreed upon Fear and OR because, though I'm obviously for them, Rhialto hasn't made it clear whether or not he agrees we should use them. I take it you like them both? In general, I say OR would be fairly high for the more "monstrous" races- something like OR5/6 for Greenskins and around OR10 for Skaven and Beastmen. Any other races you want to toss to me? I want to help and, owning every army book, I can provide a fairly decent opinion. I got a PM from Rhialto a few days ago about GW's copyright- I'm guessing he was referring to all the repeated army book stuff in the old WHD20 topic. I'm not going to do that sort of thing any more- no need, considering it's all already there and waiting for us. ::EDIT:: Actually, the current Hordes of Chaos book has it that the Norse are the least "tainted" of the Northern Tribes, primarily because they live on the coasts closer to the Empire, but they are still touched by Chaos and a brutal, savage race- so an OR would be appropriate, even if a different racial base wouldn't.
Geisterkrieger 09-11-06, 07:19 PM	removed
Mist-Bound 09-11-06, 07:24 PM	Perhaps... but other than the Northern Peoples (the three breeds of Chaos [Norse, Kurgan, Hung] and Kislevites) the only humans we have exact details on are Imperials and Bretonnians. And how would we handle them?
Geisterkrieger 09-11-06, 07:33 PM	removed
Mist-Bound 09-11-06, 07:36 PM	Really depends on whether you're talking the nobility or the peasants, and which of the baronies. Breton nobles in general are known for foolish bravery, peasants of a certain barony are known for drunkeness and Bretons are known for fiery tempers and love of melodramatics.
Geisterkrieger 09-11-06, 07:52 PM	Then we should for Nobles use Knowledge (heraldy), Peasents Profession, reflecting their former life.
Mist-Bound 09-11-06, 08:00 PM	That works pretty well. So the basic Human race base is modified in WHD20 as follows? Imperial: No changes Bretonnian (Noble): Knowledge (Breton Heraldry) is always a Class skill, Favoured Class is Generic Templar/Knight Bretonnian (Peasant): Profession (choose one) is always a Class skill Norse: Choose one of the following skills; the skill chosen is always a Class skill- Survival/Sailing/Ride (Horse), OR 1, Favoured Class is Barbarian Hung: OR 2, Ride (Horse) is always a Class skill, Automatically proficient in Shortbow Kurgan: as Norse, but is OR 2 and Sailing is removed from choice
Rhialto 09-12-06, 04:19 AM	I think I finally decided on a magic system. I spent a lot of idle time at work (which is in abundant supply - I'm underworked) today. The main aspects of magic systems in as far as they affect gameplay are: - miscast - how and how often? - nova - how big and how often can a caster burn everything in a temper tantrum? - opportunity cost - what are the drawbacks in casting a spell here and now? What incentive is there to save a spell for later? Memorised lists (D&D) - miscasts dont happen - can nova once a day, with pretty much everything youve got - The opportunity cost is you cant cast that spell later the same day vanilla mana (WHFRP 1E, WFB 3E, FF in some versions) - miscasts dont happen, except as specifically writen in certain (evil aligned) spells - can nova as often as your mana can regenerate. - mana pools define your opportunity cost. Some of these systems use a common pool for hit points and mana, further restricting your opportunity options. WFB 6E -miscasts hapen with alarming regularity, especially if you spend more magic dice casting the spell. - can nova pretty much every battle round all day every day - opportunity cost is defined by your pool of magic dice, which regenerate every battle round. Your opponent can also dispel any spell with a separate pool of dispel dice, creating an incentive to 'overcast' and use more magic dice that strictly needed to ensure success in casting. This opportunity cost doesnt last longer than that battle round. skill lists (TORG, GURPS) (This description is based off TORG, with which i am more familiar) - miscasts happen if the caster fails to beat a miscast DN (separate from teh casting DN). - can nova pretty much every battle round all day every day. Certain cards from a drama deck can prevent casting or make spells significantly harder to cast. - No real opportunity costs except for the miscast risk. So anyway, at first I was working on a skill based system, but I've decided to scrap that entirely, as I couldnt see a way to work in a meaningful opportunity cost that would give a wizard a reason to save casting a spell for later when it might be more useful. Wizards are known to be long term planners, and a "skill system with miscasts" doesnt give any reason to think of long term planning. All it does is give them a big gun that might explode in their face with no real control over when that might happen. That's important enough to bear repeating. If you have no direct control over when a miscast occurs, it essentially becomes nothing more than a critical miss system, which is widely agreed to be Not Fun (tm). So, without further ado... ------ "Caster" refers to anyone who can throw a spell in this system. Cleric and Priest are used interchangeably to refer to a caster using divine magic. Wizard and Mage are used interchangeably to refer to a caster using arcane magic. Mana points Each wizard gets 2d6 magic points every level. A wizard adds his INT modifer to the roll, and a priest adds his WIS modifer to the roll. Mana pools for arcane and divine magic are kept separate, and may not be used interchangeably. In the (extremely) unlikely event that a priest has cleric levels for two different deities, those two pools would likewise be kept separate. It's rather more likely though that the first deity would bar all magical access unless and until the cleric renounces the new deity. These deities can get a mite jealous at times. Magic pools for each colour of magic (the 8 primary colours, plus dark and high) are also kept separate from each other. This rather heavily discourages creating 'generalist' wizards, which is rather in-keeping with the colour magic background. mana recovery WHFRP: Arcane magic points are recovered at the rate of 10% of the total for each hour of sleep. Clerics recover magic by meditation, average 3 points per 10 minutes. As the winds of magic surround the caster, mana ppoints are recovered automatically under normal conditions. This is at the rate of 10% of the casters maximum every 10 minutes. This can be affected by magical storms and eddies. Certain structures (notably the wizard towers in the college of magic in Altdorf) act as magical conduits and increase the rate of mana recovery. Spell casting Casting a spell typically drains 1d20 mana for each level of the spell. If any d20 roll is a 10 or 20, add an extra d20 to the total. This in theory could result in a very expensive spell indeed (nb the statistical average for this is 11 2/3 for each of the original dice rolled). Miscasts If the caster's mana falls to zero or less, the spell fails. In addition, a miscast check must be made. This miscast will usually pretty much always be bad if the check fails, getting worse the further your mana score went into negative numbers. I have yet to make this miscast table. If the caster's mana after casting the spell is a whole multiple of 10, the spell works fine, but there are minor magical side effects. Nothing really harmful, unless perfect stealth was a prime goal. These effects are generally sensory in nature, such as smoke, odd smells or lights, or sounds. Clerics, being under the protection of a deity, are much less prone to miscasts (dice modifer to miscast check). However, a cleric whose mana falls into negative numbers will recover mana far more slowly (10% of maximum per day) until it gets back into positive numbers. Winds of magic At any give time, the winds of magic may be blowing stronger or weaker. Strong winds, especially storms, increase the rate of magic recovery, but also add substantially to miscasts. Weak winds, especially becalmed, effectively prevent mana recovery, but equally make the chance of a miscast much lower. The wizardly towers in the colleges of Magic act to channel specific colours of magic. Religious temples and druid groves have a simialr effect of focusing their kind of magic. Within the grounds of a tower (or equivalent conductor), mana recovery is boosted as for a storm, but miscast chances are not affected. (Exact numbers to follow later) Conclusion I believe I've incorporated opportunity costs, miscasts, and prevented novas, all in one go. Thoughts on this system? Incidentally, I also considered a d6 based exploding mechanic. The statistical average for an exploding d6 is 4.2 per die. Unfortunately, it doesn't really give quite as much randomness as a d20. Feel free to cc (constructively criticise) this now :cool:
Mist-Bound 09-12-06, 04:33 AM	I take my hat off to you sir- that looks pretty much perfect in my opinion! So now we just need to figure out the spell-list for the 8 winds, yes? Catzo's original interpretation of the Wizard class -with them choosing a Wind to focus on at 1st level and gaining a bonus weapon proficiency and class skill as a result of their teachings- doesn't need much in the way of reworking, does it? And what do you think of my idea on how to handle Necromancers as just a Wizard specialisation with boosted OR? I'm assuming OR is going to be used because I like it, Geisterkrieger likes it, and you haven't said you hate it yet. But I need to know- do you want the Madness rules or not? I'm not going to waste time typing them up if neither of you want them; they're at least as big as the Horror rules- bigger, even.
Rhialto 09-12-06, 05:08 AM	Outcast ratings: To be honest, I can't quite see how they are meant to be used, which is why I've kept quiet on them. Madness: WH s nothing without insanity rules. We need something for sure, because insanity, well, rules :P Further notes on wizards: I envision that each level, the wizard gets 2d6 (plus INT modifer) mana points. This package can either be added to his original colour pool, or used to make/add to a new pool in a different colour. By level 10, a wizard could in theory have mana pools in every colour of magic. Of course, it'd be a pretty foolish thing to do considering the way the mana rules and miscasts work, but it's possible. They should have a reasonable explanation for how they come across the training if they are using those points to make a mana pool in a new colour. How many spells in memory: A wizard can have level plus INT bonus spells in memory. This is total spells, not spell levels. A priest gets a similar number, but modified by WIS bonus. These spells are not forgotten by casting spells. A wizard can swap a spell out by studying his spellbooks, but usually has no need to study his books. Usually a college will teach a small selection of 1st level spells to a new wizard, and then he can pay tuition to get more spells for his spellbook (paying tuition may also be a reasonable mechanic to add that extra mana with each level). A priest can swap out divine spells in his memory by praying. A priest has, in theory, access to any spell available from his deity's list. In practice, a deity won't grant higher level spells until the priest is of a high level. Also, a deity may override a cleric's desires about what spells he gets ("Trust me, Theophilus, dedicated servant of mine, you really do want that cure critical wounds spell for your next adventure"). Finally, deities may strip away the spells a cleric has memorised and refuse to grant any new ones if the cleric has been particularly wayward. Interactions between various colours of magic: The following ideas are still very volatile in my mind. High magic and dark magic are incompatible. If a wizard has man in both pools, any spell cast from either will drain mana from both. For example, a 1st level spell would drain 1d20 high mana points and 1d20 dark mana points. The spell may miscast if either of these pools falls negative or ends up as a multiple of 10. Or I might just make it a blanket ban on having both pools. or it might cause a constant build up of insnaity popints if you have both. High Magic is flexible. A wizard with high magic at at least one other colour may choose to drain both man pools equally when casting a spell from the (not high magic) colour. A 1st level amber spell would drain 1d20 mana under this system, with half that total being taken from the amber colour pool, and half of that total being taken from the high colour pool.
Mist-Bound 09-12-06, 06:04 AM	Outcast Rating, which is in the same post as the Fear rules, was lifted from Ravenloft -just like Fear Horror and Madness. It is used as a way to represent the xenophobic nature of the inhabitants of a Gothic world, like Warhammer. Basically it's a way to penalise social interactions from non-human characters without simply slapping on a ridiculously large negative Charisma penalty- especially seeing as Charisma can also represent force of personality. OR means that, irregardless of how likable a brute your Orc Fighter may be, people are still going to be scared spitless of seeing him walk down the street. So let me recap- you like the Fear rules, don't like Horror (and don't think we need it) and want me to post Madness? Alright, I'll see about getting Madness up and posted. Those further notes to the Spellcasting system look alright with me.
Geisterkrieger 09-12-06, 05:50 PM	removed
Mist-Bound 09-12-06, 05:53 PM	Makes sense to me. By the way, do you think we should perhaps use the "Lore" skills described in Ravenloft? Knowledge covers hard-proven solid scientific fact. Lore covers folklore, superstition etc- there might be some nuggets of truth in there, but you have to glean them from the dross. Also, Geisterkriger, do you think you could find your copy of the Ravenloft Campaign Setting and post the Madness rules? Because the rules are massive and, well, I don't know how to "trim them down".
Geisterkrieger 09-12-06, 06:07 PM	removed
Mist-Bound 09-12-06, 06:22 PM	A delay's alright- if it takes too long I'll post them myself. But anyway, what other classes -besides the Templar- do we need to fix up once we've finished sorting out the spellcasters? I mean, I know this new system is the first thing, but we need to organize spells, devise the new Cleric class and work up the Major and Minor Domains for each god. Personally I'd leave off doing up the various non-human dieties until we get the human dieties (Sigmar, Morr etc) done. Then we can do the non-human dieites. By the way, Rhialto? Have you read The Moot I directed you towards? If you haven't, I'll try to summarise. Warhammer Halflings are: Greedy & Lazy; they're not likely to be adventurers, and even the ones that do will get very stroppy if forced to neglect their "creature comforts". Crack shots; a Halfling huntsman can shoot the eye out of a flying duck at 50 paces- you just need to drag him out of the pub first. Naturally skilled at thievery, farming and cooking Kender-esque kleptomaniacs; they flich whatever catches their fancy, but only if they're sure they can get away with it. Also, they're hoarders. Halfings and Ogres, being inter-related (different results from the same experiment by the Old Ones) get on pretty well- so long as the Ogre resists his initial urge to eat the Halfling, as Halflings are considered the absolute tastiest meat in existence.
Rhialto 09-13-06, 04:02 AM	About the halflings: It's clear to me now that halfling shave had revisions in 2 major areas (common origin with ogres, and increased kleptomania / fecklessness). The first I'm happy about, it adds flavour without disrupting the 1E fluff. The second change I can't really say I like. A race that prone to not standing up for itself doesn't get imperial approval to carve out a section ofland the empire had already laid claim to. I admit halflings were never really well developed in WH, but that change just turns them into the comic relief. Few more ideas on magic: Human casters: Humans can only ever take up a maximum of 3 different colours of magic, none of which may be polar opposites (the original colour system as presented had the 8 colours in a circle). They are capable of learning high or dark magic, but dark magic has its own disadvantages, and high magic isnt generally available to humans due to high elf prejudice about human capabilities. Dark magic: anyone with dark magic may burn the magic directly to assault another caster. he loses 1d20 mana, and the other wizard loses 1d20 too. The dark wizard can choose a specific colour to drain from the other wizard, provided he knows the other wizard has mana of that colour. if the dark wizard does not choose a specific colour from his opponent, then the opponent loses mana from all pools equally. High magic: Any time a wizard gains a level and chooses high magic for his mana, he adds 1/3 of that mana gain to each and every other colour mana pool he already has. This has a very powerful synergistic effect if the wizard takes a few different colours first before going for high magic. Insanity: Any human who takes dark magic starts gaining insanity points quite quickly. Ditto for any human who takes colour magic from opposing colours. Any elf who takes high and dark magic starts gaining insanity points quite quickly. I've been looking at the descriptions of the colour magic. It's become quite clear that in most cases, the actual spells in WFB 6E have little to do with teh fluff / flavour text for that colour. It's also become clear that the essence of some colours have changed over editions. Light - never really defined all that well. Grey - originally this was all about weather, now the focus seems to be on illussion Amethyst - originally the flavour focussed on emotions and mind control. Now it seems to be based on the dead. As originally flavoured, it really shouldnt have anything to do with necromancy as I have been contemplating. Life - originally named jade magic, and focused on life, especially plant life, and decay. It had strong seasonal ties, and got quite weak in winter. It doesnt seem to have much to do with ice magic at all, as some have proposed. Edit: http://greywolf.critter.net/ahq.htm is a site all about Advanced Heroquest, which happens to be the game that the colour magic system was originally designed for. I'm strongly tempted to use the ideas presented there for deciding how to split up teh D20 spells into colour colleges. Thoughts?
Mist-Bound 09-13-06, 04:52 AM	While I like the general wizard ideas, this setting is intended to be based on the most current ed -7th- of WFB and the 2nd ed WFRPG, so going with spells the way they're outlined on that site is pretty much a no. I'm reading my copy of the 7th ed corebook now and, backed by the details from the Empire army book, this is how the Winds function in my opinion. I'm not arguing for the sake of arguing, it's just that most who come to play this will only be familiar with the current edition of Warhammer, and making this 1st-3rd ed based is just going to cause confusion. The Lore of Fire is about creating and controlling Fire, so pretty much any spell that manipulates fire or that has the Fire descriptor. The Lore of Metal is actually working alchemcy; a practitioner can transmute base elements, breath life into machinery and create sorcerous concoctions- aka potions. This Lore has Transmutation written all over it; I mean, temporarily infusing life into metal? Changing one element into another? Just let them have the Brew Potions feat and perhaps even go so far as to make it restricted to Metal wizards and it works fine. The Lore of Shadow is, fittingly enough, focused on illusions and darkness and, in a limited way, the manipulation of emotions- primarily in the invocation of fear. Illusion magic in general, Darkness and Fear Effect spells in particular work for this school. The Lore of Beasts enables the wizard to communicate and control animals, and even to take upon their powers and appearances. Shapeshift, charm animal, magic fang, bull's strength, eagle's grace and the like are perfect for this school. The Lore of Light is focused on the sun, both in its healing form as a source of positive energy and its destructive form, using blasts of concentrated energy to dissolve flesh, metal and bone. I'm thinking Force spells, as it's the closest thing to pure energy under the D&D energy types. The Lore of Heavens is, simply, a mixture of divination and weather controlling magics. Whirlwind, lightning bolt, I'm sure you can think of others. The Lore of Death is focused on the manipulation of negative energies to cause death and decay, as well as to contact the spirits of the departed for divination. Inflict Wounds and Contact Other Plane are pretty much perfect examples. The Lore of Life is a form of elementalism, tapping into the powers of earth and water and plants and wind. It is tied to nature, and thus strong in places of pristine wilderness. Earthquake and any of the spells from the Plant, Earth or Water Cleric domains work. The Lore of Ice actually could be seen as a form of "Negative Life Magic"; growing stronger in winter and weaker in summer, a reversal of the Lore of Life. Perhaps it's caused by blending together the Winds of Life and Death? After all, if Necromancy is caused by blending Death and Dark magic, why not have Life and Death -and the latter is referred to as a "chilling" wind- make Ice? In any case, this is spells with the Cold descriptor, plain and simple. Most of the standard Enchantment spells would actually fit in Dark Magic, from what I've seen in the game such manipulation of the mind -stepping into the consciousness and seizing control- is amongst the blackest of arts, as only dark magic or the Dark Prince of Chaos can grant an ordinary mortal that sort of power. WH-style Necromancy simply loses vanilla D20's manipulation of life-force for straight out control over the bodies and souls of the dead and dying. I'm not arguing for the sake of deliberately being obstinate, believe me. This is just my opinion and if you disagree then we'll get Geisterkrieger to settle it. That's the way democracy works.
Rhialto 09-13-06, 06:10 AM	I'm not firmly sold on using WFB 3E reality for magic anyway. 3E didn't have colour magic at all anyway. I suspect 6E changed teh magic colleges to make all of them more useful in a battle, which is certainly a good thing for a game focused on mighty battles, as WFB is, but possibly shortchanges a RP system. Still, this is why I decided to see what the popular consensus was before ploughing ahead on something that might be considered generally superceded by the new WH reality. Do you know of any books besides the army lists and the 6E rules which describe the colours for the current version in detail? If you know when the reality shift changed, that might help me too in looking for older usable material.
Ryltar Thamior 09-13-06, 06:26 AM	Ok. Having gotten a computer meaning i can get onto the boards... here i am again. Glad to see you lot have the drive to keep going!
Mist-Bound 09-13-06, 04:14 PM	Okay, so long as I haven't offended you. I'm afraid I don't know of any places where the winds of magic are really detailed- well, other than the 6th ed Empire army book anyway. I didn't actually get into Warhammer until after the 6th ed's Dwarf army book was released, so I haven't a clue about any older books. Sorry. Ryltar; good to see you again! I'd wondered where you'd gone. Would you, perhaps, like to try working on the Templar class for us? The details we have figured out are one the first page of this topic. If not, how about helping Rhialto sort the spells from the Player's Handbook (there's a link to an "archive" of all the spells in D&D on the second page) out amongst the Winds of Magic? On the topic of the winds, how would you sort them into opposed pools? I have a few ideas, but none that aren't really obvious- Metal is Opposed to Light/Heavens (either one- Metal is a heavy wind that sinks deeply into the soil, Light is a diffusive wind that flies freely through the air, while Heavens never touches the soil) and Life is Opposed to Death.
Rhialto 09-13-06, 05:37 PM	In terms of colour dominance/opposition, imagine the following in a circle: Light Amber Gold Bright Jade Amethyst Celestial Grey Alternate 6E names: Light Beasts Metal Fire Life Death the Heavens Shadow Man o' War rules: (an out of print game in the same world), each colour is dominant over the colour immediately clockwise of itself on the circle. Equally, each colour is inferior to the one immediately anticlockwise from itself. For example, Bright magic is dominant over Amber magic, but inferior to Amethyst Magic. This only comes into play when dispelling enemy spells. Personally, I feel such a circular mechanic is a little complex to remember while playing, plus I've decided that anti-magic effects in general are to be the domain of high magic. So those dominance rules from Man o War can be consigned to history. Regarding spells lists: I'm trying to find spell lists and flavour texts for all colour colleges, as sometimes the spell lists doesn't really mesh with the flavour text of the college, and sometimes flavour text is rather vague (such as High magic).
Mist-Bound 09-13-06, 07:42 PM	Yeah, best to scrap dominance methinks. And the way I see it, the best way to handle dispelling the Warhammer way in this is; when a caster casts a spell, an opposing caster may burn mana as though he were casting a spell of equal level to the spell just cast. This lets the opposing caster make a contested Will save with the caster, gaining a +1 bonus for each level higher the "spell" he just cast has in comparison to the spell being dispelled. If the opposing caster wins, the spell is dispelled. Now that I look at it, way too complicated. Oh well, can't blame me for trying. And High Magic is going to be complicated; as far as I can tell, it's essentially control over pure magical energy.
Rhialto 09-14-06, 04:03 AM	To be honest, I feel the active way of negating spells presented in WFB 6E doesn't translate well into D20 mechanics. It doesn't even translate well into 3-way (or more) games, from what I've seen of some battle reviews of 'challenge' matches that GW staffers have held. The difficulty of translating the mechanic, plus the fact that D20 has magic saves built in anyway (something that WFB 6E does not have), plus the idea that consciously resisting a spell regardless of whether you are aware of it doesn't make sense to me. All that makes me want to drop the system. ---- Who can use magic? naturally magic resistant creatures: istr that halflings and ogres were early experiments in making creatures resistant to teh corrupting effects of chaos, and dwarves were the final version they decided on/had time to create. As such, all three are natural unable to cast spells, and naturally have decent bonuses to magic saves. that tie in with what you know? naturally stupid races: Goblinoids and saurus are too stupid to learn magic. Ogres are also too stupid, and their natural magic resistance makes them unable to even if they had the smarts. General magic using races: (Humans, skaven, skinks, beastmen, etc): Most races may learn from a maximum of 3 different colours of magic without going hopelessly insane. No PC should be allowed a 4th colour, and any NPC mage with 4 colours should be insane, and not in a good way (ie gibbering wreck, not megalomaniac). There's no particular restriction on which 3 colours they choose, beyond the need to find an tutor willing to teach that colour to them. Elves: Elves are natural casters, and may eventually have mana pools for every colour of magic (it'd be foolish given teh system I made, but it7s possible). Slann: I like the 6E reality for the WH world more than 3E for these guys. 5th spawning slann would be at least level 15. These guys are definitely an NPC race. The 2nd spawning slann may as well be treated as minor deities, up to and including being able to grant spells to clerics. ---- magic school names: Even though WFB 6E calls them the Lore of xxxx, in world they use the bright/jade/etc names. Why? Because any school claiming to teach the lore of *Death* can expect lynch mobs every few minutes and sanctions against it from the empire. "Amethyst" is simply a common sense public relations exercise. Plus the names are way cooler. Ice magic: If I drop the traditional circle of colour magic which had various numerological implications which GW apparently has already brushed aside (hmm.... 8 colours of magic.... inspired by Pratchett maybe?), that opens up a space for ice magic to fit in within the colour magic system. Call it silver magic / the Lore of Ice, and have a stylised snowflake as its rune. As an explanation for why elves don't use it, the slann avoided it because it requires cold places for that magical wind to blow strongly, which slann are not biologically adjusted for. As such, the slann never really studied that school and so weren't really in a position to teach it to the elves. This literally (and literarily too for all you punsters) represents some truly original magical research unlike anything else on the WH world, but I can live with that as a background story for the colour. Necromancy: using 6E characterisations of the colours, this has to be a banned (by empire and elves) set of spells governed by amethyst magic. Nothing else really makes sense to me. It also fits in well with the flavour text of the Amethyst College.
Mist-Bound 09-14-06, 04:29 AM	Yeah, you're right, D20 in general handles magic counterage so well we don't need to both. My input on the points you bring up: Magic Resistant Critters: Dwarfs actually came first, which is why they can still forge rune-items. Halflings and Ogres were last-ditch desperate attempts, which is why they're so flawed (taken directly from 7th ed corebook: "Halflings were physically and mentally resistant to magic, but at the expense of being inbred, stunted and, to be quite frank, pretty vulgar. The large and tough physique of the Ogres was compromised by their dim-witted, clumsy and belligerent demeanour"). All three races are magically resistant, but at the cost of mental flaws; Ogres are really more magic-stupid than magic resistant, while Dwarfs can easily slip into stubbornness, avarice and insularity and Halflings... well, let's not talk about them. Magic Stupid Critters: Orcs technically weren't even created by the Old Ones, but they are pretty much all Divinists- they're too short-sighted, literal and stubborn to really grasp arcane magic. Saurus, on the other hand, were engineered to be fighting machines- there's no room in their heads for magic. I agree with you perfectly on General Magic Using Races, Elves, Slaan and Wind Names and I applaud your decision for Ice Magic- it just seemed to fit that humans native to a land where Winter takes up three quarters of the year would mould druidic magic (which would naturally be weak there) to use the power of Winter. As to Necromancy; yes, its powers are fuelled by Shyish, but it's "viewed" through a lens tinted partially with Dhar, and its this "taint" that lets it work such unnatural magics. In fact, Necromancers -in WFB- can also use Death Magic, as the two lores are so closely interrelated. Not at the same time, of course, but that's because of fairness. The spells are naturally forbidden by humans and High Elves; even if it didn't use Dark Magic as part of its "weave", the effects it can bring about are naturally repulsive. The only reason I keep advocating Necromancer as a seperate specialisation to Death Mage is because it's possible to be one without being the other; though both would use a Shyish mana pool, it affects their choice of spells.
Rhialto 09-15-06, 06:10 AM	Light - Lore of Light - Hysh, the Serpent of Light, "Priest" . physical and mental illumination, serpents, pyramids, . earthquakes, healing, harm undead . strong association with Araby (flavour with egyptian themes?) . weapon - staff . colour - white . wind - heavy, stronger under ground The original fluff files for this wind had lots of Egyptian theming, and did note it as a 'heavy' wind, which is why it can do earthquake and other deep earth style magics. Gold - Lore of Metal - Chamon, the Golden Hawk (Soaring Eagle), "Alchemist" . alchemy, potions, metal, transmuting metals . weapon - ? . colour - yellow . wind - heavy, stronger under ground Jade - Lore of Life - Ghyran, the Scythe (Coil) of Life, "Druid" . plants, normal insects, disease, decay . weapon - scythe, sickle . colour - green . wind - seasonal, stronger in summer The half of jade magic that deals with disease and decay is banned in the empire, although as a natural part of the living world, it cerrtainly fits in with jade magic. Celestial - Lore of the Heavens - Azyr, the Comet of Power, "Seer, Astrologer" . stars, omens, portents . 6e - weather, lightning . weapon - ? . colour - dark blue . wind - light, stronger on mountains / in air This wind has moved from divination and astronomy-flavoured magics into more atmospheric effects such as lightning and weather magics. However, is there any special reason not to grant both fields? Grey - Lore of Shadow - Ulgu, the Sword of Judgement, "Sage" . weather, travel (especially on the ground), insight/wisdom . 6e - illusion, deception . weapon - sword . colour - grey . wind - light, stronger on mountains / in air This is one of the winds that took significant changes since the colour system was first made. Seeing as how no other wind has illusion covered, it seems reasonable to grant illusion to this as per 6E reality. Like celestial magic, is there any special reason not to grant both fields? Amethyst - Lore of Death - Shyish, the Scythe . souls, mind control, emotion . 6e - death, necromancy (corrupted variant) . weapon - scythe . colour - dark purple . wind - urban, stronger in cities and necropoli (specifically, stronger where many emotionally charged events have occurred) I'm temped to create two distinct halves to Amethyst magic, both of which should fit in with 6E reality. Both are essentially dealing with life and death. The first half deals with bodies, and is pretty much traditional necromancy and anmating the dead. The second half deals with the soul, and is the base concept from which both life draining spells operate, fear spells (he doesn't create something that makes you afraid, he manipulates your soul directly into being scared), and even charm spells (charm is possibly the most ddebateable part). No prizes for guessing which half is banned in the empire. Bright - Lore of Fire - Aqshy, the Key of Knowledge, "Pyromancer" . fire . weapon - ? . colour - red The original one-trick pony. Amber - Lore of Beasts - Ghur, the Hunting Arrow, "Shaman" . animals, birds, mammals . weapon - spear . colours - orange, brown . wind - rural, stronger away from cities (specifically, stronger where few or no emotionally charged events have occurred) Silver - Lore of Ice - ???, the Snow Flake, "Cryomancer" . cold, snow, ice . weapon - ? . colours - white, pale blue . wind - seasonal, stronger in winter Dark - Lore of Dark Magic - Dhar, the Wheel of Chaos . dark elf eeeeevil . necromancy . daemonology . transmutation, un-minding I have NO idea how to flavour this. Help? I would say though that this is the only group that can get a magical familiar (as opposed to an animal companion). High - Lore of High Magic - Qhaysh, the Eye of Unity . banishment, dispelling, anti magic, auras, zones The above flavouring for high magic is perhaps somewhat arbitrary, but seems to work for me. ----- calm . 0% mana recovery per 10 minutes . dice do not explode . minor miscast if remaining mana is a multiple of 20 breeze . 5% mana recovery per 10 minutes . d20 explodes on 20 only (11 1/19) . d6 does not explode . minor miscast if remaining mana is a multiple of 20 moderate (normal state of affairs) . 10% mana recovery per 10 minutes . d20 explodes on 10, 20 (11 2/3) . d6 explodes on 6 (4 1/5) . minor miscast if remaining mana is a multiple of 10 storm . 15% mana recovery per 10 minutes . d20 explodes on 5, 10, 15, 20 (13 1/8) . d6 explodes on 3, 6 (5 1/4) . minor miscast if remaining mana is a multiple of 5 . +4 penalty of major miscast roll hurricane . 20% mana recovery per 10 minutes . d20 explodes on 5, 10, 15, 20 (13 1/8) . all spells use one extra dice for mana cost . level 0 spells roll 1d20 . minor miscast if remaining mana is a multiple of 2 . +10 penalty on major miscast roll super hurricane . all effects as a hurricane, except: . all spells use two extra dice for mana cost (not one) Some winds are noted as being stronger in certain areas. These treat the local wind strength as being one level gentler when rolling the dice to determine the amount of mana the spell cost. Conversely, in areas oppositional to that wind colour, they treat the wind strength as one level stronger when rolling the dice. In areas designed specifically to act as magical conductors to harness the winds, such as the colleges of magic in Altdorf, the wind strength is treated as being one level gentler when rolling the dice to determine the amount of mana the spell cost. This is cumulative with the above paragraph. ---- Converting Warhammer: Generally, each Warhammer caster level can be treated as about 4 character levels in a wizard class in D20 rules. Adjust this up or down for individual vriety and to better reflect special characters. ---- Arcane vs Divine Magic What is the practical difference between being taught magic by a 12th level wizard, and being taught magic by a 30th level wizard who has transcended into being a warp entity and has a few epic feats under his belt? This to me is the fundamental difference between arcane and divine magic in the WH world.
Mist-Bound 09-15-06, 09:31 AM	That all looks pretty much fine with me, though if Astromancy already covers Weather magics I'd remove that from Shadow Magic. Come to think of it, I'm positive the Empire book describes Shadow Mages as wanderers, so travel would be a good domain to associate with it. I still advocate splitting Shyish into two "sub-schools"; one to represent the Empire-approved Death Mage, the other to represent the blasphemous corpse-animating Necromancer. This is only because it's proven that knowledge in one school does not automatically grant knowledge in another. Especially seeing as how Death Mages embrace the natural cycle of life and death, while Necromancers try to pervert and corrupt it. Dark Magic, I'd go with the Chaos Lores (spells only availible to Divine or Arcane spellcasters with the Mark of that Chaos God- aka the Lores of Slaanesh and Nurgle, and the spell-like abilities granted to Marked by Tzeentch), perhaps some Enchantment spells, spells that summon Daemons, spells that cause mutations and generally any spell with the Evil descriptor. I'm afraid I have no idea how to practically handle the difference between Arcane and Divine... Out of curiosity, do we intend to "translate" the spells from WFB into D20 format later on?
Rhialto 09-15-06, 04:57 PM	That all looks pretty much fine with me, though if Astromancy already covers Weather magics I'd remove that from Shadow Magic. Come to think of it, I'm positive the Empire book describes Shadow Mages as wanderers, so travel would be a good domain to associate with it. For weather magics, the original version of colour magic gave that field to grey magic, while the 6E version gives it to celestial magic. I can go along with making it celestial only. I still advocate splitting Shyish into two "sub-schools"; one to represent the Empire-approved Death Mage, the other to represent the blasphemous corpse-animating Necromancer. This is only because it's proven that knowledge in one school does not automatically grant knowledge in another. Especially seeing as how Death Mages embrace the natural cycle of life and death, while Necromancers try to pervert and corrupt it. For amethyst (and jade) magic, as I noted, there are approved and banned spells within both colleges. If an empire wizard studies magic, the free spells he gets when generating a character (and the spell he gets at each level) are randomly generated only from the "empire-approved" list. The spells in the banned list for these two colleges can only be obtained (in a normal campaign) as a result of finding them in an adventure. When I make the spell list, whether a spell is empire-approved (ie not evil) will definitely be noted in the list. Dark Magic, I'd go with the Chaos Lores (spells only availible to Divine or Arcane spellcasters with the Mark of that Chaos God- aka the Lores of Slaanesh and Nurgle, and the spell-like abilities granted to Marked by Tzeentch), perhaps some Enchantment spells, spells that summon Daemons, spells that cause mutations and generally any spell with the Evil descriptor. I'm afraid I have no idea how to practically handle the difference between Arcane and Divine... Out of curiosity, do we intend to "translate" the spells from WFB into D20 format later on? It is my intention to eventually rewrite most of the WH spells into D20 terms. Hopefully, my next post will be the big list :cool:
Mist-Bound 09-15-06, 05:03 PM	Okay then, I have no further questions/arguments. Looking forward to it! Also, just in case, the "fluff" and rules for each of the racial magic lists (bar Chaos and Dark Elves, unfortunately) are stored throughout the old Warhammer D20 topic. Just in case you need them.
Rhialto 09-15-06, 05:05 PM	Hopefully, my next post will be the big list :cool: Chance would be a fine thing. Don't know how that got posted again.
Mist-Bound 09-15-06, 05:10 PM	I did wonder. Out of curiosity, when Catzo originally designed the magic system, he gave the Wizard class a special extra weapon proficiency and extra class skill dependant upon which College the wizard came from. Do you think we should adapt that idea for our new Wizard? Also, any idea how we're going to handle the Greenskin's "bonus mana for nearby Greenies" ability? Hmm... maybe get +1 mana for each HD of Greenskins within 20 feet?
Rhialto 09-15-06, 06:48 PM	I did wonder. Out of curiosity, when Catzo originally designed the magic system, he gave the Wizard class a special extra weapon proficiency and extra class skill dependant upon which College the wizard came from. Do you think we should adapt that idea for our new Wizard? I can't see any reason not to go along with that. In my opinion, there's no special restriction on what weapons a wizard can use, beyond teh fact that they spent lots of time in book learning and don't have time for martial training. However, armour is definitely incompatible with casting spells. This apparently applies to both clerics and wizards in the Warhammer world. Also, any idea how we're going to handle the Greenskin's "bonus mana for nearby Greenies" ability? Hmm... maybe get +1 mana for each HD of Greenskins within 20 feet? I was planning to treat having large numbers of greenskins nearby as similar to how the towers of magic work in focusing specific colours of magic. the mechanic is related to the magical weather rules, and effectively makes the winds calmer when determing exploding dice and how many dice are rolled. In essence, having lots of greenskins nearby makes casting magic cheaper in terms of mana cost, exactly as if a cleric were in a temple or a wizard were in a tower. This may not be quite perfect, but it means the same mechanic is used across the board, making life lots easier. Oh, and greenskin miscasts typically take the result of 'Eadbangs :P
Mist-Bound 09-15-06, 06:53 PM	Actually, I think Sigmar and Ulric Warrior-Priests can wear armour, but then those are probably best represented as Templar/Cleric multi-classes here. And I agree with you on the Greenskins. Actually, Chaos Armour doesn't interfere with spellcasting... but it's really more an Extraordinary Ability than an item, isn't it? What with being living metal and bonded to the host...
Geisterkrieger 09-16-06, 07:30 AM	removed
Rhialto 09-16-06, 08:34 PM	This is just spell levels 0-2, and for wizards only. Extra notes: The cure spells are being made the exclusive domain of Shallya. Celestial College divination is limited to prediction/prophecy, not scrying/detection Bright College gets spells related to locks and keys. Spells related to alignment are generally dropped from colour magic. summon monster spells are dropped from WH. Spells in multiple spheres are marked with an asterisk (*) Spells banned in the empire are marked with a bang (!) 0th Level Spells Arcane Mark: Inscribes a personal rune (visible or invisible). W0 Detect Magic: Detects spells and magic items within 60 ft. B0, C0, D0, W0 Light: Object shines like a torch. B0, C0, D0, W0 Mage Hand: 5-pound telekinesis. W0, B0 Mending: Makes minor repairs on an object. B0, C0, D0, W0 Open/Close: Opens or closes small or light things. W0, B0 Prestidigitation: Performs minor tricks. W0, B0 Read Magic: Read scrolls and spellbooks. B0, R0, D0, P1, R1, W0 1st Level Spells Faerie Fire: Outlines subjects with light, canceling blur, concealment, and the like. D1 Identify M: Determines properties of magic item. W1, B1, magic 2 Mage Armor: Gives subject +4 armor bonus. W1 Magic Aura: Alters object's magic aura. W1, B1, magic 1 Magic Missile: 1d4+1 damage; +1 missile per two levels above 1st (max 5). W1 2nd Level Spells Make Whole: Repairs an object. C2 3rd Level Spells 4th Level Spells 5th Level Spells Teleport: Instantly transports you as far as 100 miles/level. W5, travel 5 6th Level Spells 7th Level Spells 8th Level Spells 9th Level Spells 0th Level Spells *Dancing Lights: Creates torches or other lights. W0, B0 Disrupt Undead: Deals 1d6 damage to one undead. W0 *Virtue: Subject gains 1 temporary hp. C0, D0, P1 1st Level Spells *True Strike: +20 on your next attack roll. W1 2nd Level Spells Calm Emotions: Calms creatures, negating emotion effects. C2, B2, law 2 Continual Flame M: Makes a permanent, heatless torch. W2, C3 3rd Level Spells Daylight: 60-ft. radius of bright light. B3, C3, D3, P3, W3 Good Hope: Subjects gain +2 on attack rolls, damage rolls, saves, and checks. B3 Helping Hand: Ghostly hand leads subject to you. C3 Heroism: Gives +2 bonus on attack rolls, saves, skill checks. W3, B2 Keen Edge: Doubles normal weapon's threat range. W3 Magic Weapon, Greater: +1 bonus/four levels (max +5). W3, P3, C4 Meld into Stone: You and your gear merge with stone. C3, D3 Remove Blindness/Deafness: Cures normal or magical conditions. C3, P3 Remove Disease: Cures all diseases affecting subject. C3, D3, R3 Searing Light: Ray deals 1d8/two levels damage, more against undead. C3, sun 3 Stone Shape: Sculpts stone into any shape. C3, D3, W5, earth 3 4th Level Spells Air Walk: Subject treads on air as if solid (climb at 45-degree angle). C4, D4, air 4 - manifests as walking on a pillar of light Discern Lies: Reveals deliberate falsehoods. C4, P3 Freedom of Movement: Subject moves normally despite impediments. B4, C4, D4, R4, luck 4 Restoration M: Restores level and ability score drains. C4, P4 Spike Stones: Creatures in area take 1d8 damage, may be slowed. D4, earth 4 Stoneskin M: Ignore 10 points of damage per attack. W4, D5, earth 6, strength 6 5th Level Spells Passwall: Creates passage through wood or stone wall. W5 - stone walls only Righteous Might: Your size increases, and you gain combat bonuses. C5, strength 5 Telepathic Bond: Link lets allies communicate. W5 Transmute Mud to Rock: Transforms two 10-ft. cubes per level. D5, W5 Transmute Rock to Mud: Transforms two 10-ft. cubes per level. D5, W5 Wall of Stone: Creates a stone wall that can be shaped. C5, D6, W5, earth 5 6th Level Spells 7th Level Spells 8th Level Spells 9th Level Spells 0th Level Spells Acid Splash: Orb deals 1d3 acid damage. W0 1st Level Spells Magic Weapon: Weapon gains +1 bonus. C1, P1, W1, war 1 - metal weapons only Shocking Grasp: Touch delivers 1d6/level electricity damage (max 5d6). W1 2nd Level Spells Acid Arrow: Ranged touch attack; 2d4 damage for 1 round +1 round/three levels. W2 Chill Metal: Cold metal damages those who touch it. D2 *Heat Metal: Make metal so hot it damages those who touch it. D2, sun 2 3rd Level Spells 4th Level Spells Rusting Grasp: Your touch corrodes iron and alloys. D4 5th Level Spells 6th Level Spells 7th Level Spells 8th Level Spells 9th Level Spells 0th Level Spells Purify Food and Drink: Purifies 1 cu. ft./level of food or water. C0, D0 1st Level Spells Detect Animals or Plants: Detects kinds of animals or plants. D1, R1 - plants only Entangle: Plants entangle everyone in 40-ft.-radius circle. D1, R1, plant 1 Goodberry: 2d4 berries each cure 1 hp (max 8 hp/24 hours). D1 Magic Weapon: Weapon gains +1 bonus. C1, P1, W1, war 1 - wooden weapons only Shillelagh: Cudgel or quarterstaff becomes +1 weapon (1d10 damage) for 1 min./level. D1 2nd Level Spells Barkskin: Grants +2 (or higher) enhancement to natural armor. D2, R2, plant 2 Tree Shape: You look exactly like a tree for 1 hour/level. D2, R3 Warp Wood: Bends wood (shaft, handle, door, plank). D2 Wood Shape: Rearranges wooden objects to suit you. D2 3rd Level Spells !Contagion: Infects subject with chosen disease. C3, D3, W4, destruction 3 Create Food and Water: Feeds three humans (or one horse)/level. C3 Diminish Plants: Reduces size or blights growth of normal plants. D3, R3 Plant Growth: Grows vegetation, improves crops. D3, R3, plant 3 Speak with Plants: You can talk to normal plants and plant creatures. B4, D3, R2 Spike Growth: Creatures in area take 1d4 damage, may be slowed. D3, R2 4th Level Spells Antiplant Shell: Keeps animated plants at bay. D4 Blight: Withers one plant or deals 1d6/level damage to plant creature. D4, W5 Command Plants: Sway the actions of one or more plant creatures. D4, R3, plant 4 !Poison: Touch deals 1d10 Con damage, repeats in 1 min. C4, D3 Repel Vermin: Insects, spiders, and other vermin stay 10 ft. away. B4, C4, D4, R3 5th Level Spells *Commune with Nature: Learn about terrain for 1 mile/level. D5, R4, animal 5 Insect Plague: Locust swarms attack creatures. C5, D5 Passwall: Creates passage through wood or stone wall. W5 - wood walls only Tree Stride: Step from one tree to another far away. D5, R4 Wall of Thorns: Thorns damage anyone who tries to pass. D5, plant 5 6th Level Spells 7th Level Spells 8th Level Spells 9th Level Spells 0th Level Spells Guidance: +1 on one attack roll, saving throw, or skill check. C0, D0 1st Level Spells Obscuring Mist: Fog surrounds you. C1, D1, W1, air 1, water 1 *True Strike: +20 on your next attack roll. W1 2nd Level Spells Augury M F: Learns whether an action will be good or bad. C2 Fog Cloud: Fog obscures vision. W2, D2, water 2 Gust of Wind: Blows away or knocks down smaller creatures. W2, D2 Whispering Wind: Sends a short message 1 mile/level. W2, B2 3rd Level Spells Call Lightning: Calls down lightning bolts (3d6 per bolt) from sky. D3 Lightning Bolt: Electricity deals 1d6/level damage. W3 Stinking Cloud: Nauseating vapors, 1 round/level. W3 Wind Wall: Deflects arrows, smaller creatures, and gases. C3, D3, W3, R2, air 2 4th Level Spells Divination M: Provides useful advice for specific proposed actions. C4, knowledge 4 Solid Fog: Blocks vision and slows movement. W4 5th Level Spells Call Lightning Storm: As call lightning, but 5d6 damage per bolt. D5 Cloudkill: Kills 3 HD or less; 4–6 HD save or die, 6+ HD take Con damage. W5 Control Winds: Change wind direction and speed. D5, air 5 6th Level Spells 7th Level Spells 8th Level Spells 9th Level Spells 0th Level Spells *Dancing Lights: Creates torches or other lights. W0, B0 Ghost Sound: Figment sounds. W0, B0 Know Direction: You discern north. B0, D0 Message: Whispered conversation at distance. B0, W0 1st Level Spells Disguise Self: Changes your appearance. B1, W1, trickery 1 Expeditious Retreat: Your speed increases by 30 ft. B1, W1 Feather Fall: Objects or creatures fall slowly. W1, B1 Longstrider: Your speed increases by 10 ft. D1, R1, travel 1 *Mount: Summons riding horse for 2 hours/level. W1 Pass without Trace: One subject/level leaves no tracks. D1, R1 Silent Image: Creates minor illusion of your design. B1, W1 2nd Level Spells Blur: Attacks miss subject 20% of the time. W2, B2 *Darkness: 20-ft. radius of supernatural shadow. W2, C2, B2 Invisibility: Subject is invisible for 1 min./level or until it attacks. W2, B2, trickery 2 Minor Image: As silent image, plus some sound. W2, B2 Mirror Image: Creates decoy duplicates of you (1d4 +1 per three levels, max 8). W2, B2 Phantom Trap M: Makes item seem trapped. W2 3rd Level Spells Deeper Darkness: Object sheds supernatural shadow in 60-ft. radius. C3 Displacement: Attacks miss subject 50%. B3, W3 Gaseous Form: Subject becomes insubstantial and can fly slowly. W3, B3, air 3 Haste: One creature/level moves faster, +1 on attack rolls, AC, and Reflex saves. W3, B3 Illusory Script M: Only intended reader can decipher. W3, B3 Invisibility Sphere:Makes everyone within 10 ft. invisible. W3, B3 Major Image: As silent image, plus sound, smell and thermal effects. W3, B3 Nondetection M: Hides subject from divination, scrying. W3, R4, trickery 3 Phantom Steed: Magic horse appears for 1 hour/level. W3, B3 Sculpt Sound: Creates new sounds or changes existing ones. B3 Secret Page: Changes one page to hide its real content. B3, W3 4th Level Spells Hallucinatory Terrain: Makes one type of terrain appear like another (field into forest, or the like). W4, D4 Illusory Wall: Wall, floor, or ceiling looks real, but anything can pass through. W4 Invisibility, Greater: As invisibility, but subject can attack and stay invisible. W4, B4 Phantasmal Killer: Fearsome illusion kills subject or deals 3d6 damage. W4 Sending: Delivers short message anywhere, instantly. C4, W5 Shadow Conjuration: Mimics conjuration below 4th level, but only 20% real. B4, W4 5th Level Spells False Vision M: Fools scrying with an illusion. W5, B5, trickery 5 Mage's Faithful Hound: Phantom dog can guard, attack. W5 Mirage Arcana: As hallucinatory terrain, plus structures. W5, B5 Persistent Image: As major image, but no concentration required. W5, B5 Seeming: Changes appearance of one person per two levels. B5, W5 Shadow Evocation: Mimics evocation below 5th level, but only 20% real. B5, W5 6th Level Spells 7th Level Spells 8th Level Spells 9th Level Spells 0th Level Spells Daze: Humanoid creature of 4 HD or less loses next action. W0, B0 Disrupt Undead: Deals 1d6 damage to one undead. W0 Inflict Minor Wounds: Touch attack, 1 point of damage. C0 Touch of Fatigue: Touch attack fatigues target. W0 1st Level Spells Cause Fear: One creature of 5 HD or less flees for 1d4 rounds. B1, C1, W1, death 1 Chill Touch: One touch/level deals 1d6 damage and possibly 1 Str damage. W1 Deathwatch: Reveals how near death subjects within 30 ft. are. C1 Detect Undead: Reveals undead within 60 ft. C1, P1, W1 Hide from Undead: Undead can't perceive one subject/level. C1 Inflict Light Wounds: Touch attack, 1d8 damage +1/level (max +5). C1, destruction 1 Ray of Enfeeblement: Ray deals 1d6 +1 per two levels Str damage. W1 2nd Level Spells !Command Undead: Undead creature obeys your commands. W2 Daze Monster: Living creature of 6 HD or less loses next action. W2, B2 Death Knell: Kills dying creature; you gain 1d8 temporary hp, +2 to Str, and +1 level. C2, death 2 False Life: Gain 1d10 temporary hp +1/level (max +10). W2 Gentle Repose: Preserves one corpse. C2, W3 Ghoul Touch: Paralyzes one subject, which exudes stEnch W2 Inflict Moderate Wounds: Touch attack, 2d8 damage +1/level (max +10). C2 Scare: Panics creatures of less than 6 HD. B2, W2 Shield Other F: You take half of subject's damage.C2, P2, protection 2 Spectral Hand: Creates disembodied glowing hand to deliver touch attacks. W2 Touch of Idiocy: Subject takes 1d6 points of Int, Wis, and Cha damage. W2 3rd Level Spells !Animate Dead M: Creates undead skeletons and zombies. C3, W4, death 3 Halt Undead: Immobilizes undead for 1 round/level. W3 Ray of Exhaustion: Ray makes subject exhausted. W3 Speak with Dead: Corpse answers one question/two levels. C3 Vampiric Touch: Touch deals 1d6/two levels damage; caster gains damage as hp. W3 4th Level Spells Enervation: Subject gains 1d4 negative levels. W4 Fear: Subjects within cone flee for 1 round/level. W4, B3 5th Level Spells Disrupting Weapon: Melee weapon destroys undead. C5 Dream: Sends message to anyone sleeping. W5, B5 !Magic Jar F: Enables possession of another creature. W5 Nightmare: Sends vision dealing 1d10 damage, fatigue. W5, B5 !Slay Living: Touch attack kills subject. C5, death 5 6th Level Spells 7th Level Spells 8th Level Spells 9th Level Spells 0th Level Spells Flare: Dazzles one creature (–1 penalty on attack rolls). B0, D0, W0 1st Level Spells Burning Hands: 1d4/level fire damage (max 5d4). W1, fire 1 Hold Portal: Holds door shut. W1 Produce Flame: 1d6 damage +1/level, touch or thrown. D1, fire 2 2nd Level Spells Arcane Lock M: Magically locks a portal or chest. W2 Flame Blade: Touch attack deals 1d8 +1/two levels damage. W2 Flaming Sphere: Creates rolling ball of fire, 2d6 damage, lasts 1 round/level. W2, D2 *Heat Metal: Make metal so hot it damages those who touch it. D2, sun 2 Knock: Opens locked or magically sealed door. W2 Pyrotechnics: Turns fire into blinding light or choking smoke. W2, B2 Scorching Ray: Ranged touch attack deals 4d6 fire damage, +1 ray/four levels (max 3). W2 3rd Level Spells Explosive Runes: Deals 6d6 damage when read. W3 Fireball: 1d6 damage per level, 20-ft. radius. W3 Flame Arrow: Arrows deal +1d6 fire damage. W3 Quench: Extinguishes nonmagical fires or one magic item. D3 Rage: Subjects gains +2 to Str and Con, +1 on Will saves, –2 to AC. W3, B2 4th Level Spells Fire Shield: Creatures attacking you take fire damage; you're protected from heat or cold. W4, sun 4, fire 5 Fire Trap M: Opened object deals 1d4 damage +1/level. W4, D2 Wall of Fire: Deals 2d4 fire damage out to 10 ft. and 1d4 out to 20 ft. Passing through wall deals 2d6 damage +1/level. W4, D5, fire 4 5th Level Spells Flame Strike: Smite foes with divine fire (1d6/level damage). C5, D4, sun 5, war 5 6th Level Spells 7th Level Spells 8th Level Spells 9th Level Spells 0th Level Spells 1st Level Spells Calm Animals: Calms (2d4 + level) HD of animals. D1, R1, animal 1 Charm Animal: Makes one animal your friend. D1 R1 Detect Animals or Plants: Detects kinds of animals or plants. D1, R1 - animals only Hide from Animals: Animals can't perceive one subject/level. D1, R1 Magic Fang: One natural weapon of subject creature gets +1 on attack and damage rolls.D1, R1 *Mount: Summons riding horse for 2 hours/level. W1 Speak with Animals: You can communicate with animals. D1, R1, B3 Summon Nature's Ally I: Calls creature to fight. D1, R1 2nd Level Spells Animal Messenger: Sends a Tiny animal to a specific place. B2, D2, R1 Animal Trance: Fascinates 2d6 HD of animals. B2, D2 Bear's Endurance: Subject gains +4 to Con for 1 min./level. C2, D2, R2, W2 Bull's Strength: Subject gains +4 to Str for 1 min./level. C2, D2, P2, W2, strength 2 Cat's Grace: Subject gains +4 to Dex for 1 min./level. B2, D2, R2, W2 Hold Animal: Paralyzes one animal for 1 round/level. D2, R2, animal 2 Reduce Animal: Shrinks one willing animal. D2, R3 Summon Nature's Ally II: Calls creature to fight. D2, R2 Summon Swarm: Summons swarm of bats, rats, or spiders. B2, D2, W2 - bats or rats only 3rd Level Spells Dominate Animal: Subject animal obeys silent mental commands. D3, animal 3 Magic Fang, Greater: One natural weapon of subject creature gets +1/three levels on attack and damage rolls (max +5). D3, R3 Summon Nature's Ally III: Calls creature to fight. D3, R3 4th Level Spells Locate Creature: Indicates direction to familiar creature. W4, B4 Summon Nature's Ally IV: Calls creature to fight. D4, R4, animal 4 5th Level Spells *Commune with Nature: Learn about terrain for 1 mile/level. D5, R4, animal 5 Summon Nature's Ally V: Calls creature to fight. D5 6th Level Spells 7th Level Spells 8th Level Spells 9th Level Spells 0th Level Spells Ray of Frost: Ray deals 1d3 cold damage. W0 1st Level Spells 2nd Level Spells 3rd Level Spells Sleet Storm: Hampers vision and movement. D3, W3 4th Level Spells Ice Storm: Hail deals 5d6 damage in cylinder 40 ft. across. W4, B4, water 5 Wall of Ice: Ice plane creates wall with 15 hp +1/level, or hemisphere can trap creatures inside. W4 5th Level Spells Cone of Cold: 1d6/level cold damage. W5, water 6 6th Level Spells 7th Level Spells 8th Level Spells 9th Level Spells 0th Level Spells Resistance: Subject gains +1 on saving throws. B0, C0, D0, P1, W0 *Virtue: Subject gains 1 temporary hp. C0, D0, P1 1st Level Spells Alarm: Wards an area for 2 hours/level. W1, B1, R1 Bless: Allies gain +1 on attack rolls and saves against fear. C1, P1 Comprehend Languages: You understand all spoken and written languages. B1, C1, W1 Remove Fear: Suppresses fear or gives +4 on saves against fear for one subject + one per four levels. B1, C1 Shield: Invisible disc gives +4 to AC, blocks magic missiles. W1 2nd Level Spells Protection from Arrows: Subject immune to most ranged attacks. W2 3rd Level Spells Arcane Sight: Magical auras become visible to you. W3 Clairaudience/Clairvoyance: Hear or see at a distance for 1 min./level. W3, B3, knowledge 3 Dispel Magic: Cancels magical spells and effects. B3, C3, D4, P3, W3, magic 3 Glyph of Warding M: Inscription harms those who pass it. C3 Invisibility Purge: Dispels invisibility within 5 ft./level. C3 Remove Curse: Frees object or person from curse. B3, C3, P3, W4 Tiny Hut: Creates shelter for ten creatures. W3, B3 4th Level Spells Arcane Eye: Invisible floating eye moves 30 ft./round. W4 Death Ward: Grants immunity to death spells and negative energy effects. C4, D5, P4, death 4 Detect Scrying: Alerts you of magical eavesdropping. W4, B4 Dimensional Anchor: Bars extradimensional movement. C4, W4 Globe of Invulnerability, Lesser: Stops 1st- through 3rd-level spell effects. W4 Minor Creation: Creates one cloth or wood object. W4 Neutralize Poison: Immunizes subject against poison, detoxifies venom in or on subject. C4, D3, B4, P4, R3 Resilient Sphere: Force globe protects but traps one subject. W4 Scrying F: Spies on subject from a distance. W4, B3, C5, D4 Secure Shelter: Creates sturdy cottage. B4, W4 Spell Immunity: Subject is immune to one spell per four levels. C4, protection 4, strength 4 Zone of Silence: Keeps eavesdroppers from overhearing conversations. B4 5th Level Spells Break Enchantment: Frees subjects from enchantments, alterations, curses, and petrification. W5, C5, B4, P4, luck 5 Dismissal: Forces a creature to return to native plane. W5, C4 Fabricate: Transforms raw materials into finished items. W5 Mage's Private Sanctum: Prevents anyone from viewing or scrying an area for 24 hours. W5 Major Creation: As minor creation, plus stone and metal. W5 Permanency X:Makes certain spells permanent. W5 Prying Eyes: 1d4 +1/level floating eyes scout for you. W5 Spell Resistance: Subject gains SR 12 + level. C5, magic 5, protection 5 True Seeing M: Lets you see all things as they really are. C5, D7, W6, knowledge 7 Wall of Force:Wall is immune to damage. W5 6th Level Spells 7th Level Spells 8th Level Spells 9th Level Spells 0th Level Spells 1st Level Spells Bane: Enemies take –1 on attack rolls and saves against fear. C1 Charm Person: Makes one person your friend. W1, B1 Color Spray: Knocks unconscious, blinds, and/or stuns 1d6 weak creatures. W1 Command: One subject obeys selected command for 1 round. C1 Confusion, Lesser: One creature is confused for 1 round. B1 Doom: One subject takes –2 on attack rolls, damage rolls, saves, and checks. C1 Enlarge Person: Humanoid creature doubles in size. W1, strength 1 Entropic Shield: Ranged attacks against you have 20% miss chance. C1, luck 1 Hypnotism: Fascinates 2d4 HD of creatures. W1, B1 Reduce Person: Humanoid creature halves in size. W1 Sleep: Puts 4 HD of creatures into magical slumber. B1, W1 2nd Level Spells Alter Self: Assume form of a similar creature. W2, B2 Blindness/Deafness: Makes subject blind or deaf. W2, B2, C3 Darkness: 20-ft. radius of supernatural shadow. W2, C2, B2 Enthrall: Captivates all within 100 ft. + 10 ft./level. C2, B2 Hideous Laughter: Subject loses actions for 1 round/level. W2, B1 Hold Person: Paralyzes one humanoid for 1 round/level. C2, B2, W3 Hypnotic Pattern: Fascinates (2d4 + level) HD of creatures. W2, B2 Magic Mouth M: Speaks once when triggered. W2, B1 Web: Fills 20-ft.-radius spread with sticky spiderwebs. W2 3rd Level Spells Bestow Curse: –6 to an ability score; –4 on attack rolls, saves, and checks; or 50% chance of losing each action. C3, W4 Blink: You randomly vanish and reappear for 1 round/level. W3, B3 Deep Slumber: Puts 10 HD of creatures to sleep. W3, B3 Fly: Subject flies at speed of 60 ft. W3, travel 3 Glibness: You gain +30 bonus on Bluff checks, and your lies can escape magical discernment. B3 Sepia Snake Sigil M: Creates text symbol that immobilizes reader. B3, W3 Shrink Item: Object shrinks to one-sixteenth size. W3 Slow: One subject/level takes only one action/round, –2 to AC, –2 on attack rolls. B3, W3 Suggestion: Compels subject to follow stated course of action. W3, B2 4th Level Spells Black Tentacles: Tentacles grapple all within 15 ft. spread. W4 Charm Monster: Makes monster believe it is your ally. W4, B3 Confusion: Subjects behave oddly for 1 round/level. B3, W4, trickery 4 Crushing Despair: Subjects take –2 on attack rolls, damage rolls, saves, and checks. W4, B3 Dimension Door: Teleports you short distance. B4, W4, travel 4 Enlarge Person, Mass: Enlarges several creatures. W4 Geas, Lesser: Commands subject of 7 HD or less. W4, B3 Giant Vermin: Turns centipedes, scorpions, or spiders into giant vermin. C4, D4 Modify Memory: Changes 5 minutes of subject's memories. B4 Planar Ally, Lesser X: Exchange services with a 6 HD extraplanar creature. C4 Polymorph: Gives one willing subject a new form. W4 Rainbow Pattern: Lights fascinate 24 HD of creatures. W4, B4 Reduce Person, Mass: Reduces several creatures. W4 5th Level Spells Animal Growth: One animal/two levels doubles in size. W5, D5, R4 Awaken X: Animal or tree gains human intellect. D5 Baleful Polymorph: Transforms subject into harmless animal. W5, D5 Command, Greater: As command, but affects one subject/level. C5 Contact Other Plane: Lets you ask question of extraplanar entity. W5 Dominate Person: Controls humanoid telepathically. W5, B4 Feeblemind: Subject's Int and Cha drop to 1. W5 Hold Monster: As hold person, but any creature. W5, B4, law 6 Mind Fog: Subjects in fog get –10 to Wis and Will checks. W5, B5 Overland Flight: You fly at a speed of 40 ft. and can hustle over long distances. W5 Planar Binding, Lesser: Traps extraplanar creature of 6 HD or less until it performs a task. W5 Song of Discord: Forces targets to attack each other. B5 Symbol of Pain M: Triggered rune wracks nearby creatures with pain. C5, W5 Symbol of Sleep M: Triggered rune puts nearby creatures into catatonic slumber. C5, W5 Telekinesis: Moves object, attacks creature, or hurls object or creature. W5 Waves of Fatigue: Several targets become fatigued. W5 6th Level Spells 7th Level Spells 8th Level Spells 9th Level Spells
Mist-Bound 09-16-06, 08:40 PM	Looks good so far! Oh, to stretch out the Lore of Ice, at least some of the spells from Frostburn might be useful. Spells from Sandstorm and/or Stormwrack might also fit into Jade Magic (the Sandstorm spells naturally emphasizing the destructive aspect of nature), some Sandstorm spells might be good for Fire or Light magic and some Stormwrack spells might be good for Celestial Magic. If you like, I can post the "summary" for those spells here, then post the ones you decide we should use. Also, there's three "aytheric senses" mentioned in WFRPG; do you think we should include them? These senses are named Intuition, Witchsight and Channelling, and you can read up on them by heading to the Black Industries website; it's the "Witchsight" preview for Realms of Sorcery. Just thought I should mention.
Rhialto 09-17-06, 06:04 AM	That list of spells so far includes the entire SRD list (http://www.d20srd.org/) and nothing more. One thing that has become apparent, is that for almost every college, there is a severe shortage of spells. This is countered partly by by the fact that WH wizards typically have a far smaller variety of spells anyway. But even so, there's going to be a lot of cookie cutter wizards running around. Conversely, those colleges that fit in with some pre-established D&D focuses (jade, amber, amethyst, grey) are awash with spells. Grey magic is particularly bloated, seeing as how both travel and illussion, areas in which D&D is traditionally strong in spells, are covered by that college. We will definitely need either a mechanic to allow cross-college casting, or an enlarged list of spells. Converting the WH spells has gone up in priority for sure. Frostburn looks like it couldbe useful for silver magic, and Sandstorm for bright magic. Stormwrack doesn't really fit in anywhere - the WH world doesn't really have much space for water-focused magic, although the weather spells in there would serve to expand the already bloated Grey magic list. None of that trio seems to me fitting for Jade magic though. As far as I can tell, Jade is foremost about plants, not about nature. Close, but not quite overlapping.
Mist-Bound 09-17-06, 10:49 AM	Actually, the Jade spell list in 6th ed also includes: a spell that causes rain, an attack spell that woks by manipulating stone, a spell that floods an area and a spell that manipulates the wind. The "fluff" says that the Elementalist is learned in all things natural; from the language of plants to the secrets of rocks. Sounds more like a nature wizard then a plant wizard- there's only one direct plant-manipulating spell in the WFB spell list. So do you want me to post the spell summaries/details? Just in case, here's the summaries from Stormwrack. BARD SPELLS 1ST-LEVEL Quickswim: Your swim speed increases by 10 ft. 2ND-LEVEL Jig of the Waves: Force creatures to dance a jig which causes penalties and forces random movement. 3RD-LEVEL Detect Ship: Detect and identify ships. Roar of the Waves: Make one target/2 levels deafened and shaken. Siren’s Call: Compel one creature/2 levels to submerse itself. 4TH-LEVEL Flowsight: You can scry creatures in contact with a body of water. 6TH-LEVEL Rapture of the Deep: Target becomes comatose. CLERIC SPELLS 3RD-LEVEL Air Breathing: Subject breathes air as easily as water. DRUID SPELLS 1ST-LEVEL Kuo-Toa Skin: Subject gains +8 on Escape Artist checks and cannot be snared by webs. Quickswim: Your swim speed increases by 10 ft. Webfoot: Target gains +4 on Swim and is less hindered by bog terrain. 2ND-LEVEL DRUID SPELLS Fins to Feet: Transforms tails, tentacles, or finned extremities into humanoid legs and feet. Jaws of the Moray: Subject gains a bite attack. Pressure Sphere: Water pressure deals 4d6 damage to submerged targets. Swim: Subject gains swim speed and +8 bonus on Swim checks. Tern’s Persistence: Subject can travel overland 50% longer without fatigue. Tojanida Sight: Gain all-around vision. Urchin’s Spines: Target grows spines that damage opponents. 3RD-LEVEL Air Breathing: Subject breathes air as easily as water. Favorable Wind: Produces a strong wind that lasts 10 min./level. Scales of the Sealord: Add 10 ft. to swim speed or gain swim speed of 15 ft.; add natural armor bonus +1/3 levels. 4TH-LEVEL Control Currents: Changes current direction and speed. Thalassemia: Turns blood to seawater, dealing 1d6/level damage. Wake Trailing: You can track a ship across the sea. 5TH-LEVEL Blackwater Tentacle: Create blackwater tentacle that attacks your foe. Flowsight: You can scry creatures in contact with a body of water. Transformation of the Deeps: Grant water breathing, darkvision, and pressure immunity to one creature/3 levels. 6TH-LEVEL Mudslide: Landslide buries, mires creatures within a 40-ft. radius. Stormwalk: Teleport yourself and one creature/2 levels from a storm. 7TH-LEVEL Waterspout: Water rises up into a whirling vortex that deals 3d8 damage and sucks creatures in. 8TH-LEVEL DRUID SPELLS Depthsurge: Water slam deals 2d6 + caster level damage to all within 20-ft. radius, pushes targets back, sinks ships. Megalodon Empowerment: Gain scent, water breathing, swim speed for 1 hour/level. Red Tide: Creates a surge of tainted water that sickens, weakens, and nauseates. 9TH-LEVEL DRUID SPELL Doom of the Seas: Summons a fiendish kraken under your command. PALADIN SPELLS 2ND-LEVEL Steed of the Seas: Make your special mount amphibious. RANGER SPELLS 1ST-LEVEL Kuo-Toa Skin: Subject gains +8 on Escape Artist checks and cannot be snared by webs. Quickswim: Your swim speed increases by 10 ft. Tern’s Persistence: Subject can travel overland 50% longer without fatigue. Urchin’s Spines: Target grows spines that damage opponents. Webfoot: Target gains +4 on Swim and is less hindered by bog terrain. 2ND-LEVEL Tojanida Sight: Gain all-around vision. 3RD-LEVEL Scales of the Sealord: Add 10 ft. to swim speed or gain swim speed of 15 ft; add natural armor bonus +1/3 levels. Wake Trailing: You can track a ship across the sea. SORCERER/WIZARD SPELLS 1ST-LEVEL Trans Quickswim: Your swim speed increases by 10 ft. Wave Blessing. Keeps one creature/level from sinking. 2ND-LEVEL Abjur Stormrunner’s Ward: Add +4 (+1/4 levels) to ship’s checks to weather storms. Turbidity: Water surrounding you becomes cloudy, granting concealment. Evoc Pressure Sphere: Water pressure deals 4d6 damage to submerged targets. Trans Fins to Feet: Transforms tails, tentacles, or finned extremities into humanoid legs and feet. Jaws of the Moray: Subject gains a bite attack. Kuo-Toa Skin: Subject gains +8 on Escape Artist checks and cannot be snared by webs. Sink: Subject loses buoyancy. Swim: Subject gains swim speed and +8 bonus on Swim checks. Tern’s Persistence: Subject can travel overland 50% longer without fatigue. Urchin’s Spines: Target grows spines that damage opponents. 3RD-LEVEL Div Detect Ship: Detect and identify ships. Evoc Favorable Wind: Produces a strong wind that lasts 10 min./level. Trans Air Breathing: Subject breathes air as easily as water. Water to Acid: Transforms 1 cu. ft./level of water into acid. 4TH-LEVEL Ench Siren’s Call: Compel one creature/2 levels to submerse itself. Illus Disguise Ship: Disguises a ship. Necro Aboleth Curse: Subject’s skin undergoes a horrible transformaton. 5TH-LEVEL Conj Blackwater Tentacle: Create blackwater tentacle that attacks your foe. Div Flowsight: You can scry creatures in contact with a body of water. Necro Thalassemia: Turns blood to seawater, dealing 1d6/level damage. Trans Airy Water: Turn normal water into a breathable substance; negate underwater movement and melee attack penalties. Transformation of the Deeps: Grant water breathing, darkvision, and pressure immunity to one creature/3 levels. 6TH-LEVEL Conj Mudslide: Landslide buries, mires creatures within a 40-ft. radius. Necro Blackwater Taint: Desecrate water, deal 1d6/2 levels negative energy damage, bestow a negative level. 7TH-LEVEL SORCERER/WIZARD SPELL Conj Waterspout: Water rises up into a whirling vortex that deals 3d8 damage and sucks creatures in. 8TH-LEVEL Conj Mordenkainen’s Capable Caravel: Creates magical ship with extradimensional staterooms. Stormwalk: Teleport yourself and one creature/2 levels from a storm. Evoc Depthsurge: Water slam deals 2d6 + caster level damage to all within 20-ft. radius, pushes targets back, sinks ships. 9TH-LEVEL SORCERER/WIZARD SPELL Conj Planar Navigation: Send a whole ship to another plane. EPIC SPELLS Epic-level characters can master the following new spells for adventuring in maelstrom environments. Part the Waters: Forces a path through a body of water. River Dragon: Transforms a river into a black or bronze dragon. Seas of Blood: Water becomes bloody and poisonous to nonevil creatures, and fiendish dire sharks appear.
Rhialto 09-17-06, 11:09 AM	Actually, the Jade spell list in 6th ed also includes: a spell that causes rain, an attack spell that woks by manipulating stone, a spell that floods an area and a spell that manipulates the wind. The "fluff" says that the Elementalist is learned in all things natural; from the language of plants to the secrets of rocks. Sounds more like a nature wizard then a plant wizard- there's only one direct plant-manipulating spell in the WFB spell list. Jade is one example where the fluff and the spell descriptiosn don't really match. I made a decision to focus on the fluff rather than the crunch when compiling that spell list earlier. Even so, with almost half the full list of druid spells available to Jade wizards, they are hardly in need of being reinforced with even more spells. Jade has more than an even share of choices with just the plant spells open to them. Those Stormwrack spells look perfect for priests of Manann though. Edit: Making Jade plant based does however cause an issue on how it can contrast with Wood Elf magic
Mist-Bound 09-17-06, 11:18 AM	Oh, alright then. Sandstorm is probably still useful for Fire and/or Light magics though. The old topic also includes the spells from the "Far Corners of the World" series of articles from the Wizards website- some of those might be useful. You like the stuff from Stormwrack? Glad to hear it. I left the Clerical domains from Stormwrack out though, but the way we're handling Clerics, I don't think they'll be neccessary. I'm working on typing out the summaries from Frostburn and Sandstorm- those two books are electronically stored on my secondary computer, not to mention they're essentially scanned pictures instead of .pdf files like Stormwrack. Also, how do you want me to handle posting the actual spells? I mean, we can't just post them publically, can we? So how do we handle them?
Rhialto 09-17-06, 04:56 PM	Also, how do you want me to handle posting the actual spells? I mean, we can't just post them publically, can we? So how do we handle them? Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer, nor do I play one on TV. I *believe* one of the things that originally prompted WoTC to publish the SRD was some legal ruling similar in concept to "you can't copyright a telephone directory". This would be why they (and almost all other) game companies have these days included vast amounts of fluff material in their game books in more recent years. Just compare the fluff:crunch ration in 3E and 1E D&D. On that basis, I believe it would be acceptable to show the spells, stripped of all flavour material, including any character names (such as how "Bigby's Clenched Fist" became "Clenched Fist"). What is needed for it to be useful, is a listing of the spells, each in a one line format as with all the earlier spells, and particularly noting the character class and spell level for each spell. We'd probably also need to come up with some standard sourcebook name abbreviations so we can point people in the right directions.
Mist-Bound 09-17-06, 05:06 PM	I'm not exactly following you... so it's alright to post the "meat" of the spells, so long as it's simply Crunch and devoid of Fluff? For example; I could post the rules for Mordenkainen’s Capable Caravel as long as I, among other things, removed Mordenkainen? And by "line" format, you mean the way I posted those spells from Stormwrack? Speaking of which, here's the domain spells- missed those by mistake. I removed the Domain Power and the associated dieites from them. The summaries for Frostburn will come... sooner or later; I've finished the Cleric spells, now I need to do the Domain spells. Sandstorm will come after Frostburn. Blackwater Domain Spells 1 Cause Fear: One creature of 5 HD or less flees for 1d4 rounds. 2 Pressure Sphere*: Water pressure deals 4d6 damage to submerged targets. 3 Evard’s Black Tentacles: Tentacles grapple all within 20-ft. spread. 4 Transformation of the Deeps*: Grant water breathing, darkvision, and pressure immunity to one creature/3 levels. 5 Blackwater Tentacle*: Create blackwater tentacle that attacks your foe. 6 Blackwater Taint*: Desecrate water, deal 1d6/2 levels negative energy damage, bestow a negative level. 7 Dark Tide*: Infuse water over a large area with negative energy, causing weakness and 1d6 damage/hour. 8 Maelstrom*: Conjures a deadly whirlpool to suck in and batter foes. 9 Doom of the Seas*: Summons a fiendish kraken under your command. Ocean Domain Spells 1 Endure Elements: Exist comfortably in hot or cold environments. 2 Sound Burst: Deals 1d8 sonic damage to subjects; might stun them. 3 Water Breathing: Subjects can breathe underwater. 4 Freedom of Movement: Subject moves normally despite impediments. 5 Wall of Ice: Creates wall with 15 hp +1/level, or hemisphere can trap creatures inside. 6 Otiluke’s Freezing Sphere: Freezes water or deals cold damage. 7 Waterspout*: Water rises up into a whirling vortex that deals 3d8 damage and sucks creatures in. 8 Maelstrom*: Conjures a deadly whirlpool to suck in and batter foes. 9 Elemental Swarm*: Summons multiple water elementals. Seafolk Domain Spells 1 Quickswim*: Your swim speed increases by 10 ft. 2 Fins to Feet*: Transforms tails, tentacles, or finned extremities into humanoid legs and feet. 3 Scales of the Sealord*: Add 10 ft. to swim speed or gain swim speed of 15 ft.; add natural armor bonus +1/3 levels. 4 Siren’s Call*: Compel one creature/2 levels to submerse itself. 5 Commune with Nature: Learn about terrain for 1 mile/level. 6 Airy Water*: Turn normal water into a breathable substance; negate underwater movement and melee attack penalties. 7 Megalodon Empowerment*: Gain scent, water breathing, swim speed for 1 hour/level. 8 Depthsurge*: Water slam deals 2d6 + caster level damage to all within 20-ft. radius, pushes targets back, sinks ships. 9 Foresight: Sixth sense warns of impending danger. Storm Domain Spells 1 Entropic Shield: Ranged attacks against you have 20% miss chance. 2 Gust of Wind: Blows away or knocks down smaller creatures. 3 Call Lightning: Calls down lightning bolts (3d6 per bolt) from sky. 4 Sleet Storm: Hampers vision and movement. 5 Ice Storm: Hail deals 5d6 damage in cylinder 40 feet across. 6 Call Lightning Storm: As call lightning, but 5d6 damage per bolt. 7 Control Weather: Changes weather in local area. 8 Whirlwind: Cyclone deals damage and can pick up creatures. 9 Storm of Vengeance: Storm rains acid, lightning and hail.
Rhialto 09-18-06, 08:55 AM	I'd *really* like to get an official opinion on this one before encouraging you to post details on the contents of those books. First up, if any pages have been marked as open gaming licence by WotC, then I'm sure those marked sections are fine to reproduce in full. Is there a forum we can go to for an official wording on this? By line format, I mean something like the following (taken from one of the SRDs): Cause Fear: One creature of 5 HD or less flees for 1d4 rounds. B1, C1, W1, death 1 The entire entry is formatted to stay on one line, line length permitting. It starts with the spell name, and ends with all class/level and specialist domain/level combinations that can cast the spell under the default D20 rules.
Mist-Bound 09-18-06, 12:54 PM	I'm afraid I don't know. You could try the D&D General board; someone out there must have a copy of at least one of the three supplements, and surely they can be able to tell you what's postable and what isn't. I certainly can't, I'm sorry to say. Alternatively, I could just type them all up on a WORD doc, then email that doc to you. That way, you have the spells without violating copyright... I think. Legalities are not my strong point, I'll admit that.
Rhialto 09-18-06, 07:22 PM	Update: I have added all SRD spells up to 5th level to the earlier post on magic colours. Rather than letting wizards take levels in multiple colours, I'm thinking of maybe making a few feats they can take, which will broaden the base of spells they can cast. Examples: Petty magic: Wizard can cast any level 0 spell from any school. The spell will cost 1d20 mana to cast, exactly as if it were a 1st level spell. They cast level 0 spells from their own colour at the usual cost. Requires: caster level 3. Polymath I: Wizard can cast any level 1 spell from any school. The spell will cost 2d20 mana to cast, exactly as if it were a 2nd level spell. They cast level 1 spells from their own colour at the usual cost. Requires: caster level 6. Polymath II: Wizard can cast any level 2 spell from any school. The spell will cost 4d20 mana to cast, exactly as if it were a 4th level spell. They cast level 2 spells from their own colour at the usual cost. Requires: caster level 10, petty magic. Polymath III: Wizard can cast any level 3 spell from any school. The spell will cost 6d20 mana to cast, exactly as if it were a 6th level spell. They cast level 3 spells from their own colour at the usual cost. Requires: caster level 15. Polymath IV: Wizard can cast any level 4 spell from any school. The spell will cost 8d20 mana to cast, exactly as if it were a 8th level spell. They cast level 4 spells from their own colour at the usual cost. Requires: caster level 15.
Mist-Bound 09-18-06, 07:41 PM	Okay, so let me get this straight: when a character first takes a level in Wizard, he/she chooses which Colour to use. Then, at certain levels, he/she can purchase a Feat that expands the list of spells availible? Or maybe I'm following you wrong... While I know that we're a long, long way off doing stuff for Chaos, I've had a few ideas for Tzeentch and Chaos in general that I just have to put down before I forget them. *I already posted my idea on Marks of Chaos before, and this is the "revised" Mark of Tzeentch: The character gains a mana pool of "Tzeentch mana", equal to 2D6*levels in Caster (if applicable). Tzeentch mana does not count against the limit of mana pools. In addition, the character gains a single "Invocation of Tzeentch" (a D20 translation of a spell from WFB's Lore of Tzeentch), which can only be cast using Tzeentch mana. Further Invocations can be acquired like normal spells. Optional: Tzeentch mana can also be used as "bonus" mana in casting spells. *Reward of Tzeentch: Tzeentch's Insight Each time the character receives this Reward, the character may increase the maximum number of pools he/she can have mana in by 1. AKA a human who receives Tzeentch's Insight can now place mana in 4 pools without going insane. *Disks of Tzeentch are actually Advanced Screamers of Tzeentch, with a Special Attack that grants them their trademark (6th ed) flaming aura. *Daemonic Steeds can be acquired in two ways; firstly, they can be summoned like ordinary Daemons, with all the risks that entails. Secondly, they can be bestowed as a Chaos Boon- in this case, the Daemon is bonded with the spirit of its master. This makes it "safer", as it cannot go against its master's will without enraging the Chaos Gods, and also grants it a stronger "grip" upon reality- rendering it immune to Daemonic Instability as long as its master lives. *Daemonic Steeds availible are: Chaos Undivided: basically a Nightmare or a Half-Fiend Warhorse Nurgle: Daemon-Beast of Nurgle (Chaos Spawn of Nurgle with type changed to Daemon) Khorne: Juggernaught of Khorne Slaanesh: Mount of Slaanesh (light cavalry; the two-legged lizard thing with the venomous tongue) and Steed of Slaanesh (cavalry; the serpent thing with the entangling tongue) Tzeentch: Screamer of Tzeentch and Disk of Tzeentch.
Rhialto 09-20-06, 08:14 AM	Small but significant revision to the magic system: All wizardly mana pools share a single mana pool in common. Wizards no longer choose a specific colour pool to place those points of mana in when they gain a level. At first level, wizards get a colour mastery feat, which enables them to learn spells from a single colour of magic. At later levels, additional feats may be acquired, allowing them to get access to spells from additional colours of magic. Under this revised system, the magic of the chaos gods can be treated as just another feat, streamlining the magic system with some ideas you've been throwing around, and making elven generalist wizards reasonably playable. Current project: examine the various army lists and construct an index of creatures in the WH world.
Mist-Bound 09-20-06, 06:28 PM	Okay then, so Wizards just get a Mana Pool, and their Colours are restricted to Feats, which may/may not take the place of Bonus Metamagic Feats? Okay then. As for creatures... not really any good at that, but there's WFB stats for many Warhammer beasties (Trolls, Ogres etc) scattered throughout the Warhammer D20 topic- those may be a good basis. Also, the various beasts we did figure out are on the front page of this topic.
Rhialto 09-23-06, 09:26 AM	The consensus in the general forum is that Frostburn etc have no OGL content, and so we can't reference those books in any way, shape, or form. :(
Mist-Bound 09-23-06, 12:22 PM	Damn... and those spells would have been so useful too. Ah well. So what do we do? Prioritise the spell translation? Try and make up some spells of our own?
Mist-Bound 09-23-06, 05:32 PM	Just had a bunch of concept ideas for Lore of Ice spells, thought I'd run them by you and see what you thought. I garauntee they're junk though. Also, would it really hurt you to set this thread to instant alert? I've got it set to instant alert, and that's why I can respond so quickly (given that we're more than likely around ten hours apart from each other). It'd just make things a whole lot easier. *Freezing Touch: Touch Attack inflicts Cold damage *Numbness: temporarily drains Dexterity *Ice Sliver Blast: creates a beautiful faceted globe of ice, with blue flames of intense cold locked within. This is then lobbed at a target to explode, ala Fireball, inflicting damage that is half Slashing and half Cold. *Blood Freeze: inflicts Cold damage, target must pass a Fortitude save or suffer massive Con damage due to damaged/destroyed organs *Needle Hail: drops a shower of razor-sharp icicles over the targeted area, inflicting Cold and Piercing damage *Freeze Water: turns 20ft-square of water into solid ice *Mould Ice: alter existing block of ice into any shape you desire *Snowstorm: conjures up a swirling mass of icy winds and snowparticles to hamper sight *Ice Field: creates a circular "plate" of magical ice; anything that steps on this ice is frozen solid until attacked or the spell wears off- and when that happens, the field erupts in a shower of razor-edged slivers, causing slashing damage to anything caught in the area it covers. *Icy Blessing: grant yourself or a friendly creature Cold Resistance *Avalanche: causes an avalanche to smite your foes *Invoke Winter's Fury: temporarily conjures a massive blizzard *Ice Javelin: fire a beam of mystical energy that inflicts Cold damage on everything in a straight line between the caster and the targeted point I also have an issue of Dragon with some Ice-themed spells if you want me to dig those up. Also, some more Gifts of Tzeentch- I wish I could wait until we were actually working on Chaos too. *Gift of Tongues: after spending at least one full minute doing nothing but listening to a character (NPC only?) speaking a language the character does not speak, he automatically gains proficiency in that language. *Spellthief: the character goes into a 24-hour long trance. When he emerges from this trance, he may permanently add a single spell from any lore -arcane or divine- to his list of spells known. This includes racial diety spells like Waaagh magic and the Lore of the Horned Rat. The sole exception is that he cannot take a spell from the Lore of Nurgle; Tzeentch cannot perceive how to weave the Winds of Magic in the same pattern as his arch-rival. Note that racial benefits for spells acquired by Spellthief (gaining bonus Mana to cast Waaagh spells from nearby Greenskins, for example) do not apply to the character unless they would normally (using the above example: if the character was an Orc). Favour of Chaos Undivided: Daemonic Crossbreed The character is "welded" together with a fraction of Daemonic essence, becoming a partial fusion between himself and a Daemon. The character's Type changes to Aberration, but other effects are dependant upon the Daemon with which the character is crossbred. Below are suggestions. Bloodletter of Khorne: the character gains Darkvision 60ft and any non-magical melee weapon they wield counts as being a +1 weapon with the Vampiric Regeneration 1 power. Bloodthirster of Khorne: the character gains a doglike face (which itself bestows a Bite attack), the Bloodscent quality (identical to Scent, but can only track subjects that are bleeding/covered in blood) and the ability to Fly 30ft/round with Average manoeuvrability. Daemonette of Slaanesh: the character becomes hypnotically alluring, gaining a +4 Profane bonus to all skill checks related to social interaction. Daemonic Steed of Slaanesh: the character gains an elongated tongue that can be used as a Ranged Touch Attack (maximum distance 30 feet). This RTA can either Grapple the target (if the crossbred daemon was a Steed of Slaanesh) or it inflicts Poison (if the crossbred daemon was a Mount of Slaanesh). Flamer of Tzeentch: the character gains a "Flaming Slam Attack", a Slam attack that deals a bonus amount of Fire damage. The character can also project a Ray Attack that deals Fire damage. Horror of Tzeentch: the character gains Fast Healing 3.
Rhialto 09-24-06, 06:29 PM	http://www.geocities.com/skrittiblak/ We could probably adapt some of the stuff there. I'm in the process of setting up a wiki for this project. I just need to sort out security settings so it doesn't get hit by spam.
Mist-Bound 09-24-06, 06:45 PM	Ah, Skrittiblack's legendary WH40K D20 website. I still don't see any spells there that might be of use to us though- also, it's important to remember that he sticks to a lot of the old 1st-3rd ed fluff, so be careful there. Especially seeing as how we're basing this off the most recent fluff- makes it more accessible. A Wikipedia for this project? I'm intrigued- precisely why make one? I'm just asking out of curiosity- it'll probably help a great deal. I think. But once we have the Wiki up, then what? Continue filling out the spell lists with the default GMG spells, yes? Then work on translating WFB spells?
Rhialto 09-25-06, 06:37 PM	New feat: waaagh da orcs! Goblinoids may substitute CON for CHA checks for interactions with other goblinoids of equal or smaller kind. Black orcs can do this with any goblinoid, orcs can do this with orcs, goblins, and snotlings, goblins can do this with goblins and snotlings. And snotlings can do it only with other snotlings, which is less disgusting than it sounds..
Solarfall 09-26-06, 09:22 AM	just passing by.. nice to see that this project was ressurected. stay motivated and dont give up easily.
Rhialto 09-27-06, 06:46 PM	I have now created a wiki to help in the development of this project. At present, this wiki is by invitation only. Please send me a private message requersting access if you are interested in actively developing this project, and you actually own legal copies of the various WH sourcebooks. It is my intention that any item that is free of copyright infringement be posted simultaneously on this forum and the wiki. Any material that could be legally questioned will remain on the wiki only until sanitised, which is why I am only allowing people in who have ownership of those books. (Yes, I know it is impossible to verify, short of lots of plane tickets. I'm going to insist you say that you own the books in question in your private message, similar to how certain websites ask you to say it is legal for you to do and see certain things based on your age, and they take your word for it, possibly based on a credit card (though not always) which they have no way to verify is actually yours.)
Solarfall 09-28-06, 01:45 AM	Rhialto: forget legal stuff... this project is illegal in its very foundation..guys in Games Workshop really dont like this kind of effort. please look here: http://forum.blackindustries.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=5613&SearchTerms=d20,warhammer quote Dave Allen: "It's not tolerated and our legal team do regularly talk to people who are doing this sort of thing and get them to stop." so why bother with rules about owning books?
Rhialto 09-28-06, 03:40 AM	Solarfall, that is one place where I must disagree with you. Distributing to the general public any information produced that contains trademarked/copyrighted information is, I agree, a breach of IP rights. Exchanging such information with people who have already purchased legal copies is no different legally to making a backup of an audio CD for personal use (something, which, incidentally, RIAA absolutely hates and would deny your right to do). Edit: the above paragraph is a bad example. A better example would be a group of friends, who have each purchased legal copies, proceeding to make their own house rules for private use. At present, that is exactly what the wiki amounts to. GW et alii may not like it, but IP law does not prevent you from exchanging information with people who also have already paid for the right to consume that specific piece of IP. You bhave to remember it is quite traditional for companies to claim more legal rights than they are actually entitled to claim. This is partly legitimate self interest, and partly to scare people away from challenging them so that their overstretching becomes accepted. wrt to distributing the finished product, I plan on making the final result sufficiently sanitised from trademarked and copyright data that their legal team could not object to my work any more than they could object to your own piece. ETA: As an example of how i am sanitising the final version, the sea god in the sanitised version will be called Mannanan mac Lir. I am 100% certain there is no way in hell GW or anyone else can have any kind of case for suing if I use that name.
Rhialto 09-28-06, 04:10 AM	As one specific example of where their legal service is claiming rights that I believe they are not entitled to, they say you cannot call a gaming club "The Warhammer Club". It is true that Warhammer is a trademark of theirs, but it is also true that it happens to be a military weapon that is quite common in the context of medieval role playing games. As long as they aren't trying to use that club to sell a specific product, but are using it in the generic weapon sense, it would be hard for GW to present a reasonable challenge to such use. Given the English language convention for capitalising proper names, including clubs, the fact that it is capitalised can't in itself be used as proof that they are threatening the trademark. West End Games (to use one example) would probably have an easier time of fighting a similar case, as that trademark doesn't also happen to be a generic word commonly used in a gaming context. Not to mention that Michael Moorcock has a prior claim on Chaos as IP, which is something that GW is claiming.
Solarfall 09-28-06, 10:50 AM	Rhialto: what is the major problem here: "(You must not) Use our intellectual property in relation to any third party products or third party intellectual property." http://uk.games-workshop.com/legal/canandcant/1/ you are doing just this.. (and not mentioning you are breaking OGL) but whatever...:bored: I am not a lawyer and I dont work for GW. but its silly to worry about owning books and not about GW making serious legal actions. just stay underground.
Mist-Bound 09-28-06, 05:08 PM	That's pretty much a given. Anyway, to get slightly back on topic; I'm liking the Wiki so far Rhialto, and I just thought I'd let you know that the detailed rules for Waaagh Magic, Ogre Gastromancy, Skaven Magic, Vampire Counts Necromancy and Tomb Kings Rituals are already printed out in the old Warhammer D20 topic. I'd copy-paste them to the Wiki myself if I knew how. On a lighter note, I was thinking about classes- specifically, prestige classes. Which ones should we include and which ones would we have to design? I can think of three Racial prestige classes (Dwarf Slayer, High Elf Swordmaster, Saurus Temple Guard) as well as the Chaos Champion prestige class, but others are a blank. Two Ravenloft PrCs that might be appropriate which come to mind are the Grimetrekker (for Sewerjack veterans) and the Pistoleer (I've spelt that wrong, but anyway).
Rhialto 09-28-06, 05:53 PM	Solarfall, it's kinda clear you don't really have anything useful to contribute to this particular thread. I can't help wondering if the reason you seem so strongly against it is in case this project brings GW's lawyers looking at your own warheart product, which you are, after all, on record upthread as noting it to be usable for playing a campaign in the Warhammer world. Or maybe it is because this one would fill a similar gaming niche and you don't want the competition. Whatever. I'm satisfied I've covered myself legally. If you like, I can rework it as a parody work (evil enemies from the Realm of Lawyers at the poles etc) and then use ALL their marks with impunity instead of simply renaming a whole ton of stuff. Or maybe call it Herohammer and highlight the extreme unbalancedness of certain earlier editions in order to parody their work. But, hands up anyone who has ever used any Warhammer concepts in a D&D game with your mates - GW's legal dept is on to you! Whatever. I'm not going to enter any further discussion on the legal side within this thread, but feel free to enter a pm discussion or start another thread for it. On an altogether different note, to copy the text from a thread, the simplest way to do it is to click reply to a post, and copy the text frm that window. You'll then need to go through the contents and change the forum bbcode to the markup used in the wiki. It is a little timeconsuming though. For prestige classes, I'm not sure we need a huge number of these. I kinda feel D20 has an addiction to them. Some (not all) deities could have one or two. At this stage, I'm more concerned about getting the base classes set up right.
Mist-Bound 09-28-06, 05:58 PM	I was actually asking how to create new pages at the Wiki to post the magics to. Though perhaps an easier method would be to simply PM the requisite data to you and then let you post it? That way you can edit it as you please. PrCs probably won't play that big of a role, I agree on that, and you're right; we should wait until we've gotten the basic classes up. Let's see... we need to finish up Magic (I think), and do up the Templar and Cleric classes... what else do we need to do for base classes? Just a suggestion, but the Knight class from PHB2 might make a good base for the Bretonni Knight.
Rhialto 09-28-06, 06:26 PM	Oh, to create a new page on the wiki, edit a page, type [[my new page]], then save it. A new link will appear in that page. Just click on that link to edit that brand new page. there is a way to create new pages that aren't linked to anything, but I don't want to create orphan pages. With the above method, i know there will be at least one page linking to the new page.
Mist-Bound 09-28-06, 06:35 PM	Very well then- though I think perhaps it would be best to just have you do it, what with me having no experience in such matters. If you agree, send me a PM and I'll send you one back with the spell lores. But anyway; Classes- what needs to be done for them?
Rhialto 09-29-06, 03:39 AM	I'm working on the templar class right now. The first step is removing the abilities that aren't generic, and I think I've got that right. Steps two and three are related; put back the basic paladin skills that are appropriate to each deity (such as lay on hands for a goddess of healing), and add extra abilities to represent skills unique to each order of templars. I've taken a small sample of deities and finished step 2 for them. Step 3 may take a little longer.
Mist-Bound 09-29-06, 03:43 AM	As Templars are probably only really appropriate for some of the Human gods (Sigmar, Ulric, Morr and Myrmidia spring to mind), then it shouldn't be too hard. If there's anything I can do to help, just say so. For example, a Templar of Morr should probably get Lore (Undead) as a Class Skill and/or some kind of combat-boost against undead enemies, either an attack bonus or a bonus to saving throws and/or armour class.
Rhialto 09-29-06, 09:21 AM	I've been having a browse through the realms of divine magic again. How many of these do you think are worth adopting? Stuff that can definitely be dropped: Khaine - as presented there, he has dominion over undead. That seems to have been retconned out, and a good thing too. (more later, halfway through intense examination of document)
Rhialto 09-29-06, 04:04 PM	Other major continuity changes since that document saw light... Ormazd, the Araby deity. He si the former sun god of the Khemri, and is the only member of that pantheon described with more than a single sentence. He seems strongly inspired by Islam. Ecate - Ormazd's wife. Strongly associated with vampires, witches and magic. Given the current undead background, the vampires part should be dropped. Verena - RoDM is the only place where her role as the instigator of the Estalian Inquisition seems to be docmented. This aspect doesnt seem to fit in with her aspect as goddess of justice (as opposed to law), and should probably be dropped.
Geisterkrieger 09-29-06, 08:03 PM	Hi, just wanna to show up, how's everything going, all my exams are done and I thought of keep on working on the project, but as a not-owner of warhammer army and rulebooks I guess that I'm out.
Mist-Bound 09-29-06, 08:06 PM	I dunno, I think Rhialto might let you in- we could use more than one member who can actually build classes and stuff.
Rhialto 09-29-06, 11:02 PM	If you want access to the wiki, pm me, tell me what books you do have, and I'll make a decision based on that. We could really do with more people in on this, but I want to be sure I am legally covered. Maybe I should make several sections to the wiki, one open access for ideas that have been thoroughly cleaned up. What do you think? Regardless of how open I may eventually make it, writer access will always remain invitation only. Unlike wikipedia, I do not plan to allow anyone to write, although I will eventually allow anyone to read selected areas.
Rhialto 09-30-06, 09:03 PM	Hmm, I had thought there was a community interested in developing this. Was I mistaken?
Mist-Bound 09-30-06, 09:26 PM	What do you mean? What's the problem? I've been here waiting on you- my main forte is supplying information. Just tell me what you need me to do and I'll get right on it. ::EDIT:: Also, Realms of Divine Magic probably isn't a very good source now, due to being so out of date. For example, as of the most recent WFB army book Wardancers are servitors of a primordial Elven god of trickery (all the deities worshipped by Wood Elves are now either powers forgotten by the more civilised Elf societies or spirits of Athel Loren), named Loec. Their alternate title is "Feastmasters", for the roles they play in the great feasts.
Rhialto 10-01-06, 03:28 AM	What do you mean? What's the problem? I've been here waiting on you- my main forte is supplying information. Just tell me what you need me to do and I'll get right on it. ::EDIT:: Also, Realms of Divine Magic probably isn't a very good source now, due to being so out of date. For example, as of the most recent WFB army book Wardancers are servitors of a primordial Elven god of trickery (all the deities worshipped by Wood Elves are now either powers forgotten by the more civilised Elf societies or spirits of Athel Loren), named Loec. Their alternate title is "Feastmasters", for the roles they play in the great feasts. My plan with RoDS and all the older sources is to use them to fill in the blanks. So, where newer material covers the areas fully, that's fine. Where it doesn't, use the older material if that covers the relevant areas. RoDS is still a good source for human deities, as those haven't really changed at all, at least the mainstream ones common in the Empire.
Mist-Bound 10-01-06, 03:44 AM	Hmm... there's an article in a recent White Dwarf on deities of the Empire... do you want me to take a look through my collection, find it, and then post the summarized data here? See if there's anything that contradicts RoDM? And am I right in assuming that the Witch Hunter, Demagogue and Fanatic are PrCs? There's a Ravenloft PrC -the Propagandist- that might make a good base for the Demagogue- the problem that it's a bit more focused on written manipulations. There's a few others as well, but I'll only bother if you think they're worth it.
Rhialto 10-01-06, 04:04 AM	Those 3 are careers from WHFRP. Witch hunter and demagogue are probably worth doing as templar archetypes for their particular religion (possibly separate them out though). Fanatics can be treated s a subset of templar I think. And demagogues, I think maybe just make those optional feats that clerics can take. It certainly fits in well with the concept of cleric as charismatic leader rather than vanilla D20's cleric as warrior-priest. I don't think demagogue has enough oompf to justify making a prestige class for it.
Mist-Bound 10-01-06, 04:15 AM	Yeah, sounds right to me. On a similar note; for Dwarf Slayers, we could take the easy option and simply make them Dwarfs with levels in Barbarian... but that doesn't quite seem right in my opinion. Also, Dwarfs from the Norse hold (the name escapes me at the moment) have a slightly different version of Slayer; the Berserker. Given that the sole difference seems to be name and the fact Berserkers even shave off their beard (the character Snorri Nosebiter, from Gotrek & Felix, seems to be a Berserker- if he's any indication, then Berserkers may shave their heads entirely and construct a crest by hammering a row of coloured nails into their skull) I think one class with notes on visual variations works fine.
Mist-Bound 10-01-06, 05:49 PM	Okay, just some random stuff I need to get off the top of my head... Possible PrCs: "Tomb Delver"; experienced crypt raider, excells at finding traps and navigating through subterranean depths. "Daemonologist"; Wizard prestige class that, while not aligned with the Chaos Gods outright, is still considered evil. Specialises in summoning, binding and controlling Daemons- possibly even gets Daemonic familiars/companions at higher levels. Possible "bases"; Book of Vile Darkness's Demonologist & Diabolist, Tome of Magic's Fiendbinder. Misc Ideas: The various Shadowcaster spells from Tome of Magic might be good for fleshing out the Lore of Shadow. The Witch Slayer PrC in Tome of Magic might make a good base for the Witch Hunter PrC. The Pistoleer PrC in Ravenloft's Van Richten's Arsenal might be of use here. Dhar Magic is probably the best place to put the non-Necromantic spells with the Evil descriptor. It might be best to make Necromancy and Amythest magic seperate Lore Feats.
Rhialto 10-01-06, 06:05 PM	Realistically, I already have far far more work han I can handle alone. Unless someone is willing to work with me, this effort is going to take a looooong time. :weep:
Mist-Bound 10-01-06, 06:07 PM	I'm willing to help! To try at least. I just don't know what you want me to do! Just tell me straight up what you want me to do and I'll get to work on doing it!
Rhialto 10-01-06, 06:25 PM	Just pick a section of teh project, and start typing it up! Offhand, teh following items are long term for me: - making stats for all the monsters - making a weapon list that only includes weapons for the campaign, possibly region-specific - converting spells - writing up the rules for most character classes (I'm working on wizard, templar, and cleric) - writing up rules for player races
Mist-Bound 10-01-06, 06:36 PM	Well, I can't really do rules... what if I posted the background detail from the various army books to the Wiki? Would that be of any use? Also, I don't really know anyone on these boards, but perhaps you could contact other members and see about "recruiting" them into this project? What we really need are "rulesmiths"; people who can forge out rules for D20 from the original WFB rules.
Rhialto 10-01-06, 06:44 PM	Well, background material is useful for any internal discussions, but be aware that we absolutely can't publish such fluff at all. Once we reach the publication stage, any text that references GW'S IP will almost certainly have to be removed or re-worded. Rulesmiths are exactly what we do need right now. How good are you at recrutiing? :D
Mist-Bound 10-01-06, 06:48 PM	I don't know- I've honestly never tried. Hmm... if you can suggest how to do so (I mean, I doubt I can just put up a post saying "We need Rulesmiths! If you'd like to be part of a project and you're good at designing D20 rules, then please come to this project) I'll take a whack at it- I might be able to get some people from the Cafe du Nuite interested.
Rhialto 10-02-06, 04:31 AM	The Generic Templar Unveiled! The following notes broadly outline the changes to the paladin to make it into a templar. Except for noting specifics for each deity, this is probably going to be the final version of the templar. * Divine Aura - Common to all templars. This marks the templar as a pawn of his deity. This may or may not make him detectable by magical means, depending on whether the magic is looking for that specific deity's mark. * Detect Enemy - Common to all templars. Each deity has a specific set or sets of enemies. A templar may choose to detect a specific subset only. The advantage is knowing the exact kind of enemy faced. The disadvantage is that the templar will completely fail to detect other enemies he isn't detecting for. * Smite Enemy - Common to all templars. Each deity has a specific set of enemies. Where this list of enemies is particularly broad, templars may have to choose additional subsets of enemies at higher levels. * Divine Grace - Common to all templars. At 2nd level, the templar can choose his charisma bonus OR the normal governing characteristic bonus. At 4th level, he gets his charisma bonus AND the normal governing characteristic bonus. * Lay on Hands - varies by deity. Only healing deities grant the heal ability, which takes a full minute to perform (ie not so useful in the middle of combat). Other deities grant a sphere-related resistance. Due to the nature of the force that animates undead, there is no smite mode. * Aura of Courage - common to all templars. This ability is unchanged. * Divine Health - common to all tempalrs. This grants a +10 resistance bonus against disease. Templars of healing deities are immune to non-magical diseases and get +10 resistance bonus against poisons and magical diseases. * Turn undead - There is no evil (rebuke) counterpart to this ability. However, depending on deity, clerics and templars may be able to cause instability (exact mechanics to be decided) in undead, daemons, or both. Templars without this ability instead get a resistance bonus. * Spellcasting - Templars can cast spells as a cleric of 1/4 their level, round down. This is cumulative with any cleric levels they may have. * Special Animal - Templars may get either a steed or an animal companion, depending on their deity. Those deities that don't grant an animal will instead grant a 1/day use of a group augmentation power. * Remove Disease - Templars get N times/week use of a sphere-related spell roughly at 3rd level of power. Comments?
Mist-Bound 10-02-06, 04:37 AM	Looks good to me! Though I can't help but wonder what you're going to do for the Specific Templar. Also, do you want me to try asking for Rulesmiths at the Cafe du Nuit?
Rhialto 10-04-06, 06:53 PM	Did you ever find anyone interested over at Cafe du Nuit?
Mist-Bound 10-04-06, 07:00 PM	Alas, no. I put up a topic explaining what we were doing and saying that we were interested in having others join, as well as posting a link here, but so far no answers. I'm sorry. Maybe if I knew how to attract attention though...
Solarfall 10-05-06, 03:24 PM	new d20 Warheart version 0.92 is out. :dancin: find it here: http://warheart.rpg.sk feel free to use use whatever you like or find usable from my rules in your project as long as you respect OGL.
Mist-Bound 10-07-06, 04:33 PM	Just been checking the Black Industries website and took a look at the Familiar Generator. You might be interested to know that, in WFRPG, Wizards who practise Death, Fire, Light, Metal, Shadow, Chaos or Necromancy are capable of acquiring Familiars. I'm working on copy all of the Familiar Descriptions in the Familiar Generator, if you'd like me to post them here. There's also a fan-article on Hedge Wizard Familiar that you might want to take a look at.
Rhialto 10-07-06, 04:46 PM	Until at least one other (preferably more) rulesmiths come on board, this project may as well be on hiatus. By myself, it'd take months to get it finished. I do plan on working on it still, but even working flat out on it (given other priorities I also have) it'd take a couple of months easily.
Razieliffied 10-27-06, 07:34 AM	I wouldn't mind working on this, I was approached by one of my friends today and they were asking about sticking some warhammer races into our homebrew world. One thing led to another and I was trying to convert the whole world to d20 for future use. I would love to take part in all of this. My first though it your races, they are weaker then their D&D core counterparts in almost every way and you have stuck an ECL +1 ontop of most of them? I have my own elves in construction if anyone is interested [I'm not too shabby at making races if my own players are anything to go by with their praise], though I dont want to just muscle my way in on everything here.
Paper_Bard 11-14-06, 10:46 AM	I admit.... I am most interested in this. I think the warhammer fantasy universe is perfect for an RPG.... especially d20. I tried playing GW's RPG and it just didn't go too well. Maybe I'll try it agian. Anyway... I have to admit... your magic sysem is interesting... though a tad bit overpowered. You to have a max amount of spells you can cast in a day. You shouldn't be able to cast spells willy nilly, and because of a luck of rolls, not worry about anything. Perhaps a maximum number of spells per hour, or something.
Rhialto 11-15-06, 05:57 PM	Unfortunately, due to the new policy of nightly take-downs on these forums, it is now virtually impossible for me to use this forum, due to my time zone. Someone, please tell WoTC that daily-take downs of the forums has a severe effect on people outside the U.S. timezones.
Paper_Bard 12-04-06, 10:34 AM	Is this thread dead? I just wanted to see the wiki, but Rhialto didn't answer my PM. I want to help, but it seemsm there's not much going on on this thread. Darn it! This looked so good!
Mist-Bound 12-17-06, 05:47 PM	I don't know of the thread is dead or not- as you can see, Rhialto's last message was a complaint about WoTC's nightly take-downs making it impossible for him to use this forum. I on the other hand have no such problem, so if you want you can send me a PM and I can send you one in return with the address for the Wiki (I'm looking at the Wiki as I type this and it seems that Rhialto's still working there).
Rhialto 12-20-06, 03:45 AM	I'm not dead yet! paper bard, check your inbox!
Paper_Bard 01-06-07, 09:37 PM	Well, here. I'll contribute something. Here's my idea of orcs. Paper Bard's Interpretation of Orcs: Stats: +2 Str, +4 Con, -2 dex, -2 int, -2 wis, -2 cha Medium Sized -Low-Light Vision -Uses strength instead of cha for intimidation checks, with bonus +4 for each size category larger than medium. (See below) -Bonus Feat: Diehard (Orks are pretty darn hard to kill. The lust for battle usually supercedes any sense of self preservation -+2 bonus saves against fear effects. (+2 against horror effects if we use them, +4 against battle-related horrors) -Exotic Weapon Familiarity: Choppa. Any orc can use a choppa version of any weapon they are already proficient with without penalty. A one-handed choppa can be wielded in two hands by someone not proficient, but a two-handed weapon is unable to be used without the proper feat. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Note: Choppas are a 'weapon template' (Thnx to Skrittiblak, creater of Warhammer 40k d20 for the idea) They deal one size category higher damage (1d6-1d8 2d6-3d6, etc). However, this may only be applied to swords, axes, blunt weapons of all kinds, and other large, hurty implements (DM's discretion). Finess weapons are too flimsy for orks to make into choppas. Note: blunt choppas are labeled clubbas. No finesse-style feats may be used with choppas. Choppas are never considered light weapons, no matter what their base weapon is. -Growth: Orcs grow larger as they fight more and more, and some warbosses can get quite big. In game terms, once an orc reaches twelvth level (tenth for fighters, barbarians, and rangers) Size category changes to large, with all benefits. Ability score changes are as follows instead of the normal for changing size: +4 strength, -2 dex. This is optional, as an orc who relies on stealth will undoubtedly eat less so as not to get too big. Choppas may be used as a large-size weapon as normal. Can now wield large-sized weapons made into choppas. Skill Penalty: Orcs are not known for their learning capabilites. As such, an orc receives 4 less skill points at first level and -1 each subsequent level. Note: An orc always recieves a minimum of one skill point per level. (Note: This is to offset the fact that I put the orc's itelligence modifier to -2 instead of -4. This is because I feel that orcs are not incredibly stupid creatures, just that they're less educated and don't value intelligence as much. (Intelligence would be their dump stat, for instance) This allows for exceptional orcs to still be rogues, wizards, etc.) Note: Some DMs may wish to spread these abiltiy score adjustmants over several levels. Level Adjustmant: +1 or +2. Note sure just yet. Savage orcs would just have the savage creature template from Savage Species added tp them, with an additive penalty: Armor Redundency: Savage Orcs never start with armor proficiency.
Mist-Bound 01-06-07, 10:01 PM	I like it, though I'd change the Savage Orcs' Armour Redundancy to Armour Disdain: Savage Orcs never gain any Armour Proficiency feats from classes and cannot purchase Armour Poficiency feats of any sort. In replacement, give them access to a "feat tree" of "Warding Tattoos", though exactly how they'd work I'm not sure. Well, other than that they grant a Deflection bonus to AC anyway. I'm glad to have you join us, especially as I don't know what's happening with Rhialto. I don't suppose you're willing to try at some more races, like Beastmen or Skaven?
Paper_Bard 01-07-07, 08:32 PM	Will do. Like the choppas?
Rhialto 01-07-07, 09:49 PM	ok, I guess an explanation for my absence is due. Like I said, during most of my evening hours, the forums here are unavailable to me due to wizards taking them down for nightly maintenance. that has had a significant effect on my ability to post here. In late November, I tried to install a patch on the wiki. Some settinsg were not set correctly, resulting in some error code verbiage being displayed at the top of each wiki page. the wiki itself worked as before, except it looked ugly. I also became extremley busy over December, so that I neither had time to work on this project, nor did I even have time to fix the wiki page's error codes. Those error codes have now been fixed, and the patch also works as intended. Regarding the wiki, if you need access (subject to the original requirements I noted when I started it), please send me a private message. The wiki is still intended as a place for collaborative development. ETA: Today is the last day of my winter holiday from worky stuff, so I'm still going to have all the usual forum issues here. But I will try to get back to actively working on the wiki.
Mist-Bound 01-07-07, 10:18 PM	So I guess I should officially welcome you to the group Paper Bard? Okay then- and yeah, I like the Choppas. One thing I suggest; I have a copy of Oriental Adventures, and the Nezumi race might be a good "base" to construct the Skaven from. If you like, I can post a copy of it here and/or give you my ideas on what changes should be made. Rhialo; aiyeesh, no wonder you've been gone so long. My deepest sympathies, and I'm glad to hear you're still interested in working on this with me. If Paper Bard continues to stick around, we might get this project done yet! ::EDIT:: Decided it was finally time I started contributing something, so here's my idea at what a Skaven racial profile might look like. Creature Type: (Monstrous?) Humanoid Statistic Changes: +2 Int, -2 Wis, -2 Cha, -2 Con Skaven have brilliant, though twisted, minds, as well as being odious and quite frail Racial Abilities: Low Light Vision Base land speed: 40ft +4 racial bonus to all Fort saves vs. Poison, Disease and Warpstone Sneaky: +2 racial bonus to Hide and Move Silently, Hide and Move Silently are always Class Skills Fang and Claw: a Skaven can make a single unarmed attack per round that inflicts 1D4 normal damage, in addition to their normal attacks Keen Scent: Skaven with a Wis of 11+ can purchase Scent as a Feat Scavenger: +2 racial bonus to Survival checks, immune to the effects of eating spoiled food Underdweller: +2 racial bonus to Wilderness Lore checks made in subterranean and urban environments Level Adjustment: +2
Paper_Bard 01-08-07, 11:05 AM	I don't know... I kind of disagree with the skaven you put forth. Here's my idea: +2 dex, +2 int, -2 wis, -2cha, -2str Medium sized (Just barely) 40 feet speed -4 saves vs fear effects (Skaven are naturally cowardly creatures) +2 fortitude saves versus diseases. Also take half the normal penalties from mundane diseases, rounded up. (Skaven, like normal rats, are natural carriers of diseases, and suffer less effect due to natural resilience) +2 racial bonus to all Fort saves vs. Poison and Warpstone Sneaky: +2 racial bonus to Hide and Move Silently, Hide and Move Silently are always Class Skills Fang and Claw: a Skaven can make a single unarmed attack per round that inflicts 1D4 normal damage, in addition to their normal attacks. If the skaven is diseased, this undarmed attack transfers that disease. Keen Scent: Skaven with a Wis of 11+ can purchase Scent as a Feat Scavenger: +2 racial bonus to Survival checks, immune to the effects of eating spoiled food Underdweller: +2 racial bonus to Survival checks made in subterranean and urban environments. Underground, a skaven always can tell where north is. Tried to avoid LA. Took some of your stuff... very good.
Mist-Bound 01-08-07, 12:29 PM	Considering that I've never actually tried to put together a race before, I think I did a pretty good job in that there was some material you could salvage for your version, which looks much better than mine. I'm especially glad that you manage to avoid LA for it as well. So it looks to me like the Skaven is done- care to try your hand at the Beastman or (Common) Goblin? By the way, all Orcs and Goblins are Humanoids with the Greenskin subtype, though we haven't actually figured out what this subtype does.
Rhialto 01-08-07, 02:48 PM	Blood for the Blood God! Depending on the final implementation, this will either be something for the blood god's templars (my preferred choice), or for his champions of chaos prestige class. In either case, this ability replaces the spellcasting ability that followers of other chaos gods would receive. Magic - The blood god's followers receive no experience for any opponents or obstacles that are defeated through the use of magic spells, or by using (non-weapon) magic items that produce spell-like effects. This includes magic spells used by his allies. Weapons - He is the blood god. As such, he expects his followers to use only edged weapons, either piercing or slashing. No weapons are actually banned from use. However, a weapon that has the blunt/bludgeon damage type may not take advantage of the following special rules outlined below. Blood points - A champion earns blood points at the sme rate as experience points. If the character never spends his blood points, they will be equal to his total experience points. In addition, each time a character gains a level of experience, his blood points are immediately restored to be equivalent to his experience point total. Gaining a level is the only way to restore blood points after they are spent. At any time, but usually at the start of the day (the same time other characters would be doing their morning ablutions/book study/praying), a champion may request that his non-magical weapon be enchanted. The following restrictions apply: * This replaces any previous such enchantment. * This replaces the usual magical bonuses gained from a weapon that already has magical bonuses enchanted into it. * This will not work on sentient magical weapons, unless the weapon agrees willingly or is otherwise dominated; the sentient weapon's persona is completely suppressed while this enchantment is in effect. * This will not work on any weapon that has the blunt damage type, even if it also has slash or pierce damage types. * This will only work on melee weapons. It can be used on dual mode melee/missile weapons (eg spear). Usually the effect will last for a full day. It can last for longer. If the weapon draws blood from at least 4 resisting and aware (not necessarily sentient) creatures, including at least one kill, the effect will continue for an additional day. This can continue for many days, but the blood/kill requirement must be met each day. Certain actions may cause the effect to end prematurely: * The enchantment ends immediately if a dual mode melee/missile weapon is used as a missile. * The enchantment ends immediately if another person tries to use the weapon. Cost - The exact cost in blood points of the enchantment varies depending on the what enchantment the character desires. The cost in blood points is equal to the gold piece value of the magic item. (exact cost is subject to adjustment for game balance, but should be high to discourage continuous daily usage. This is meant to be a special boost for tough occassions, not a regular enhancement used routinely.) thoughts?
Mist-Bound 01-08-07, 03:07 PM	Looks pretty good, and I'd say that it'd be best as the special ability for Templars of Khorne. Though I have to say the idea of granting Templars the ability to dedicate themselves to Chaos Gods doesn't seem right- that is what the Chaos Champion class is for. Still, either way, it looks good.
Rhialto 01-08-07, 04:58 PM	Regarding templars and champions of chaos character classes, I'd rather have them merged as one character class, for the following reasons: - The special abilities for each aren't fundamentally different as a class concept. The differences are easily accounted for as deity-specific modifiers rather than an overall class template. - No deity would conceivably have a need for both templars and champion classes. The two classes fulfill identical social roles with respect to their particular deities. - Under a normal "PCs are good" campaign, the GM can expect to create a large number of NPC chaos templar/champions as opponents. Having to make prestige-class based NPCs is time consuming.
Mist-Bound 01-08-07, 05:16 PM	When you put it like that, your logic is impeccable. I do wonder how you'll fit in the "gribblier" bits of Chaos Championhood (Rewards, Mutations and the transformation into a Daemon Prince/Chaos Spawn) into the Templar class though. Do you think that if we go this route we should still bother to make Marks of Chaos? I mean, not all Chaos worshippers actively walk the Champion's path, and they still receive the "blessings" of their patron(s). Your "Code of the Blood God" makes a pretty good example of what a Chaos Mark might bestow- what's to keep us from creating similar "Codes" for the other four Marks and then having it that a Templar devoted to a Chaos God automatically receives the appropriate Mark on 1st level? This makes things a little simpler, as then we simply make it so that their various "special abilites" received at later levels are randomly chosen Chaos Gifts. I can't remember, do Templars cast spells like Paladins do? Or only if they serve a certain diety? If not, then it makes things a little simpler- a Chaos Sorcerer is simply a Wizard/Templar multiclass with an Allegiance to Chaos. Just put a note in Nurgle and Slaanesh's Mark that a spellcasting character with the Mark gains access to the spells associated with that god, and there you are.
Paper_Bard 01-08-07, 06:32 PM	Hmm...goblins you say? I'll take a look at the books. Flips randmomly through large, dusty tomes with numerous bite marks Ah! Goblins! Let's see.... +2 dex, -2 str, -2 wis (Goblins are more dexterous than their plodding masters, but suffer from being physically weak. They're not the most sane creatures and often suffer from inattentiveness. However... constant pleading for their lives and getting beat around a lot gives them average con and cha scores) Slight Build: Although goblins are medium sized, this is just barely. Therefore, a goblin may be considered small sized when advantageous to him. This includes escape artist and hide checks, as well as getting through small crevasses. He can benefit from cover if hiding behind another medium creature (provided it does not have slight build as well). This does not affect Massive Damage, AC, or bonus chance to hit. A goblin can still use medium weapons normally. He does, however, take a further -2 penalty when trying to wield large weapons, to a total of -6 without monkey grip feat, and -4 with. Speed 30ft. Low-Light Vision +1 to hit and AC against dwarves. Goblins have a long standing hatred for what they call stunties and have learned to combat them effectively. -2 will saves vs. Elves. Goblins fear elves greatly. Thus, if affected by a fear spell or ability that the goblin knows is being used by an elf; they suffer -2 to their will saves. If the goblin does not know the source to be an elf, they do not suffer the -2. For example. Acturius the High Elven Mage casts fear on Gorbruk the goblin, right in his face. Gorbruk fears the elf, which hampers his ability to resist. He takes -2 to his will saving throw. If said elf sneaks up behind Gorbruk, and he cast the spell. Gorbruk feels waves of fear wash over him, but he is not aware that it is the elf casting it. He does not take the penalty. +1 luck bonus to reflex saves. Goblins are naturally lucky creatures when it comes to avoiding traps and the like. Sadly, this does not help those unlucky few who are strapped to rocketing projectiles and hurled at the enemy. Subtype: Greenskin: Being of the subtype greenskin, goblins are able to take greenskin-only prestige classes, as well as use Waaaagh magic.
Mist-Bound 01-08-07, 06:48 PM	Looks good to me! It's really great to have you aboard the team! That makes a perfect Common Goblin... is there some sort of "underground dweller" template that we could perhaps add to that to represent the Night Goblin? If not, then I'd change Low Light Vision to Dark Vision and Light Sensitivity (Night Goblins are perfectly adapted to their subterranean environs and in fact despise bright light) and maybe give them the following abilities: +2 racial bonus to Handle Animal checks made vs. Squigs +2 racial bonus to Fort saves made to resist Poison (alternatively, only to poison checks caused by injesting fungus) Underdweller (as per Skaven) Care to try your hand at Dwarfs, (High) Elves or Beastmen?
Paper_Bard 01-08-07, 11:08 PM	Sure. I don't know too much about high elves but I'll see what I can do. I jsut wanted to share something I've found with warhammer attributes. 3 is base. This would mean about 10-11. 4 is exceptional.... 14-15, roughly. Any higher and I'm not sure how to do it. Was thinking of doubling the bonus each subsequent rasising. Str 5 would be +8, str 6 would be +16, etc. Not sure if this works though. Now, I like to think about several races, such as orcs, as having a str 3.5. Not high enough for +4 str, but not average. So +2. An orc does have toughness four, so i gave them +4. I'll do dwarves tonight. With exams and all I might not be able to do as much as I would like, but I'll see. Like the night goblin by the way.
Rhialto 01-09-07, 08:01 AM	When you put it like that, your logic is impeccable. I do wonder how you'll fit in the "gribblier" bits of Chaos Championhood (Rewards, Mutations and the transformation into a Daemon Prince/Chaos Spawn) into the Templar class though. Do you think that if we go this route we should still bother to make Marks of Chaos? I mean, not all Chaos worshippers actively walk the Champion's path, and they still receive the "blessings" of their patron(s). Your "Code of the Blood God" makes a pretty good example of what a Chaos Mark might bestow- what's to keep us from creating similar "Codes" for the other four Marks and then having it that a Templar devoted to a Chaos God automatically receives the appropriate Mark on 1st level? This makes things a little simpler, as then we simply make it so that their various "special abilites" received at later levels are randomly chosen Chaos Gifts. I can't remember, do Templars cast spells like Paladins do? Or only if they serve a certain diety? If not, then it makes things a little simpler- a Chaos Sorcerer is simply a Wizard/Templar multiclass with an Allegiance to Chaos. Just put a note in Nurgle and Slaanesh's Mark that a spellcasting character with the Mark gains access to the spells associated with that god, and there you are. Templars are essentially spell-less paladins, similar to the spell-less ranger proposals (our WH rangers will also be spell-less). Both these classes will get something to compensate for their lack of spells, but given that magic is downgraded in general, this won't necessarily be quite as powerful as more conventionally balanced spell-less rangers and paladins. Most WH gods have clerics (the blood god is a notable exception), and most also have templars (again, there are exceptions). A few also have various kinds of prestige classes, either 'demagogue' or 'witch hunter' class, with deity-specific adjustments. My plan is that any character with templar or cleric classes will get a an appropriate magic lore feat specific to their deity. This doesn't by itself grant any magical ability (mana). Chaos sorcerors are dual class templar/wizards under this model, or possibly single class clerics if they aren't combat inclined, or maybe even cleric/wizards. Most 'chaos warriors' as seen in a chaos army would actually merely fighters, not templars, similar to how most monks in an Old World monastery would actually be lay persons, not clerics (and certainly not D&D style fighting monks). Regarding the gribbly bits of chaos, I think any character with one of the chaos gods' feats should get, as a side effect of the feat, either a reward or mutation at each new character level. Either of those hit 10 total, and something funky happens (at least, that's how RoC did it).
Paper_Bard 01-09-07, 09:59 AM	Here's my two cents for Dwarfs. DWARFS • +2 Str, +4 Constitution, -2 dex. –4 Charisma. Dwarfs are physically stronger than humans and their stout bodies make them extremely tough. Their short legs and barrel shaped bodies make them somewhat clumsy and their dour demeanor and constant grudge-bearing doesn’t help their social skills much. • Medium: As Medium creatures, dwarfs have no special bonuses or penalties due to their size. • Dwarf base land speed is 20 feet. However, dwarfs can move at this speed even when wearing medium or heavy armor or when carrying a medium or heavy load (unlike other creatures, whose speed is reduced in such situations). • Darkvision: Dwarfs can see in the dark up to 60 feet. Darkvision is black and white only, but it is otherwise like normal sight, and dwarfs can function just fine with no light at all. • Stonecunning: This ability grants a dwarf a +2 racial bonus on Search checks to notice unusual stonework, such as sliding walls, stonework traps, new construction (even when built to match the old), unsafe stone surfaces, shaky stone ceilings, and the like. Something that isn’t stone but that is disguised as stone also counts as unusual stonework. A dwarf who merely comes within 10 feet of unusual stonework can make a Search check as if he were actively searching, and a dwarf can use the Search skill to find stonework traps as a rogue can. A dwarf can also intuit depth, sensing his approximate depth underground as naturally as a human can sense which way is up. • Weapon Familiarity: Dwarves may treat dwarven waraxes as martial weapons, rather than exotic weapons. • Stability: A dwarf gains a +4 bonus on ability checks made to resist being bull rushed or tripped when standing on the ground (but not when climbing, flying, riding, or otherwise not standing firmly on the ground). • +2 racial bonus on saving throws against poison. • Spell Resistance 10 + character level. • +1 racial bonus on attack rolls against creatures of the greenskin subtype. • +4 dodge bonus to Armor Class against monsters of the giant type. Any time a creature loses its Dexterity bonus (if any) to Armor Class, such as when it’s caught flat-footed, it loses its dodge bonus, too. • +2 racial bonus on Appraise checks that are related to stone or metal items. • +2 racial bonus on Craft checks that are related to stone or metal. • +4 racial bonus to fortitude saves to stave off the effects of alcohol. • Grudge Bearer: Dwarfs are known for holding grudges for an immensely long time. Once per session, the dwarf may select a hated foe who has wronged him in the past. The dwarf stews on this particular grudge, fueling his hatred. He receives a +2 morale bonus to hit with any weapons directed at the source of his anger. He also receives a +1 morale bonus to damage rolls made against targeted foe. The dwarf may have only one person/monster/etc. targeted as his hated foe at a time. Note that once a grudgebearer reaches ten HD, his grudge bearing skills heighten. His attacks and damage bonuses double. Note: This hatred towards the particular person makes the dwarf irritable. He suffers a -1 penalty to all Conversational skills while stewing on the particular grudge. • Automatic Languages: Riekspeil and Dwarven. Bonus Languages: Giant, Skaven, Greenskin, Terran, and Elven. • Favored Class: Fighter. A multiclass dwarf ’s fighter class does not count when determining whether he takes an experience point penalty for multiclassing. • Restricted Class: Spellcaster. A dwarf may never take any levels in any spellcasting class. He may not put any ranks in Use Magic Device, or spellcraft. •Level Adjustment: +1.
Mist-Bound 01-09-07, 10:59 AM	Thanks for clearing that up Rhialto, though I should point out that the "Chaos Warrior" unit actually represents "rookie" (level 1-3) Chaos Champions. Chaos Marauders would be Fighters/Barbarians though. Also, given that Templar is a Core class and thus has 20 levels, do you really think that it's balanced to give them the possibility of receiving a race change to Native Outsider at level 10? And that's a good looking dwarf Paper Bard! I was flicking through the Ogre Kingdoms book and, well, what do you think of this Ogre? Large Size Base land speed 40ft (50ft?) +4 Str, +4 Con, -2 Dex, -2 Int, -4 Cha Skill Penalty (as per Orcs) +4 racial bonus to Fort saves vs. Poison and Disease +4 racial bonus to Bull Rush checks Cast Iron Gut: Ogres can digest ANYthing +2 racial bonus to attack rolls vs. Giants Magic Dumb: the only spellcasting class Ogres can take levels in is Cleric, and they may only be Clerics of the Great Maw Use Str bonus instead of Cha bonus for Intimidate checks LA: +2 I know it's not really good, but I think you should be able to make something useable from it, right?
Paper_Bard 01-09-07, 12:59 PM	I like the orgre. Should get +6 to strength though (4.5 str) Also... they are eligible for some feats that allow them to cast 'gut magic'. These feats allow them to use their con score instead of intelligence. These feats are taken from the World of Warcraft d20 manual of monsters. I'll post them shortly... with my own dubbing and name.
Mist-Bound 01-09-07, 01:48 PM	Actually, if memory serves Rhialto and I decided that Ogre "Gastromancers" were really Clerics of the Great Maw. But those feats you mention would be appropriate, albeit changed to allow Con bonus to be used instead of Wis bonus for spellcasting. While I'm grateful that you're helping us with the races, may I ask a question? Do you have any experience with creating monsters? The procedure has always eluded me I'm afraid... Oh, by the way, Rhialto? There's a book I've found called Chaositech; some of the stuff from that might be good for mutations and/or "Daemon Tech". It also has possibilities for Chaos Dwarfs and the Skaven Clans Moulder and Skyre. If you want, I have it stored as a pdf file on my computer and I can email you a copy- don't want to risk making a mistake by posting the material from it here. ::EDIT:: By the way Paper Bard; I was just flicking through my copy of the Orcs & Goblins book and it turns out that Goblins are S3- which, under your "conversion guide", would give them average (10-11) Str. On a similar topic, what do you thnk of this racial profile for Gnoblars? Small Size Greenskin subtype -2 Str, -2 Int, -2 Wis: Gnoblars are amongst the dimmest and weakest of all Greenskins, just barely above Snotlings and below even their Goblin kinsfolk. Scent Keen Hearing: +2 racial bonus to Listen checks Born to Lose: Gnoblars accept that their general lot in life is die. Usually quite messily. They receive a +2 racial bonus to Will saves vs. Fear effects. Lucky Trinkets: Gnoblars carry all manner of self-declared charms, talismans and trinkets designed to ward off bad luck. Gnoblars receive a +1 Luck bonus to AC and Ref saves. Desperate Fighters: Gnoblars do +1 damage with Improvised and Simple weapons
Paper_Bard 01-09-07, 05:54 PM	True. But as I also stated, ther are points where a score should have been between them. Goblins would porbably be Str 2.7 or something. They're weaker than humans but stronger than str 2 creatures. It's kind of reading between the lines and looking at fluff. Gnoblars look ok, though I really don't know much about Ogre kingdoms, as I don't have the book. Got hordes and beasts of chaos, orcs & gobbos, skaven, main rulebook, and I have a friend with Dwarves and High Elves.
Mist-Bound 01-09-07, 06:12 PM	Oh? So those the books you have? I've got the 7th ed corebook, all of the 6th ed army books and the 7th ed Dwarf and Orcs & Gobbos. Anyway, getting back on topic, you think I actually made something that works with the Gnoblar? Well, maybe there's hope for me yet. Do you think you could take a whack at High Elf or Beastmen profiles? Not sure whether or not Gor and Ungor should be seperate species though...
Paper_Bard 01-09-07, 09:07 PM	About the gnoblars... don't get your hopes too high. I haven't even seen the stats for them. Don't have a clue. Always thought they were just northern goblins. I think the elves as standing could use a little work. I have an idea and I'm going to run with it tonight. As to the beastmen, I believe that they definately need two different races. Each are born with or without horns, so a progression wouldn't work. The gors would probably have 3-4 HD, the ungors 2. Still need to work on it. About the rulebook. There's a seventh edition? I only have sixth! I thought the new one was just a reprinting! Crap! Anything change that I need to know of for the RPG?"
Mist-Bound 01-09-07, 09:22 PM	I actually put the stats for all the "base" models in the old Warhammer D20 topic- you can find the Gnoblar profile there if you look. As for 7th edition, other than bringing the timeline up to date, I think the only changes they made were a few revisions to the magic rules (primarily in the form of a nastier Miscast tabe), as all the 6th ed codexi are still valid (albiet being slowly updated, as evidenced by the new Dwarfs and O&Gs). There's also something about units now needing a row of at least 5 models to get a rank bonus- I haven't actually read the 6th ed corebook, so I don't really know what's been changed and what hasn't.
Paper_Bard 01-09-07, 11:12 PM	Here are my try at beastmen. though bestigors are just higher level gors. Don't know. I feel the same way about black orcs. Ungors • +2 Con, +2 dex. -4 Int, -2 Cha, • Medium: As Medium creatures, ungors have no special bonuses or penalties due to their size. • Gor base land speed is 30 feet. • Bonus Feat: Furious Charge. Ungors, along with their Gor brethren are known for devastating charges. Note: Furious charge doubles the bonuses and penalties for charging. • +2 racial bonus to survival. Survival is always a class skill. • +1 to fortitude saving throws. • Free 1 Mutation Point. Gors are naturally twisted by the chaos powers. They gain a free mutation point they can spend on any mutation except horns. This is because they already have small horns, though they are too small to use in combat. Note: Gors can take mutation drawbacks to receive more Mutation Points. • Automatic Language: Beastspeak? Bonus Languages:? • Favored Class: Barbarian. Gors • 2 Monstrous Humanoid HD • +4 Con, +2 str, -2 Int, -2 Cha • Medium: As Medium creatures, gors have no special bonuses or penalties due to their size. • Gor base land speed is 30 feet. • Bonus Feat: Furious Charge. Gors, along with most other beastmen are known for devastating charges. Note: Furious charge doubles the bonuses and penalties for charging. • Horns: Gors pride themselves on their impressive horns. When making a charge, a gor may choose to forgo any normal attacks and make a single ram attack with their horns. This deals 1d8 damage +1.5 str modifier. The benefits of furious charge also apply. In addition, sn enemy hit by a horn attack must make a fortitude save versus a DC equal to the damage dealt or become stunned for one round. • Free 2 Mutation Points. Gors are naturally twisted by the chaos powers. They gain a 2 free mutation points they can spend on any mutation except horns. This is because they already have horns. Note: Gors can take mutation drawbacks to receive more Mutation Points. • Automatic Language: Beastspeak? Bonus Languages:? • Favored Class: Barbarian. • LA +1 Note: I was thinking for mutations we could just use the system from the warhammer 40k d20, based off of d20 modern. This file can be found at www.geocities.com/skrittiblak
Mist-Bound 01-09-07, 11:25 PM	I was sceptical at first, but that mutation point system might work. I'm not too sure how many of the mutations there would work, but there should be some salvagable things. As I said before, I have the Chaositech sourcebook, and if you like I can PM you the mutations it contains. Also, as that's basically the last of the races you can do (due to not having the other army books), would you mind helping me devise a list of Chaos Rewards (and perhaps mutations)? After all, Rhialto's working on the "Chaos Champion" (Templar) class, so he's going to need them. Before you say anything, I know there's stuff at that site we can use, but I'd rather not rely overmuch on it- especially as some of it isn't quite right for Warhammer Fantasy and how we're using a slightly different system. I've an experimental Reward (though it's more like a penalty) outlined below. I'd suggest that you give Beastmen the Skill Penalty; like with Orcs and Ogres they aren't the most intellectually inclined creatures. And Black Orcs were genetically engineered (for lack of a better word) by Chaos Dwarfs to be better than normal Orcs; they're stronger, tougher, smarter and much more focused/disciplined, so a seperate race profile really is suitable. Warpghost The Champion becomes Incorporeal; invisible and inaudible to all others and completely incapable of interacting with the physical world. However, the Dark Gods do grant the Champion a small measure of mercy (or perhaps an extra dose of torment); during the duration a specified event, the Champion becomes Corporeal once again, only to fade away when the event passes. Example events are: nighttime, during a violent storm, during a celestial alignment, on a specific (un)holy day, one day every 10 years. The Champion no longer needs physical sustenance and no longer ages.
Paper_Bard 01-10-07, 09:15 AM	Sure I'd love to see the mutations in there.
Mist-Bound 01-13-07, 03:46 PM	Paper Bard? I sent you all the mutations via PM- have you gotten them yet? If yes, what's your opinion? Anything there worth translating? If you like, I can send you an email with the Chaositech sourcebook attatched to it; there's too much to PM you, and it's really awkward to turn it into a Word document. Of course, I'll need you to tell me your email before I can send it to you...
Rhialto 01-13-07, 07:55 PM	By the way, the templar class is now esentially complete, for generic purposes. That is, all the player/GM need do is define appropriate spheres of influence for the relevant deities, in order to define the more specific powers of the templar. Things still to do on it: - Some levels are 'empty' (nothing but hit bonuses/more hit points). How big an issue is this? - Define 2 (or more?) spheres of influence for each specific deity we are using. - Define unique deity-specific powers not covered by the generic template (such as the blood god's weapon enchanting power). - Define a mechanism for mutations and rewards for chaos templars.
Mist-Bound 01-13-07, 08:02 PM	How big an issue is this normally? Given that, dependant upon your Templar's patron, there's also the possibility of gaining spellcaster levels and/or bonus turning uses, it doesn't really seem that big to me. Speaking of which, do you think we should devise some sort of "Litanies of Hate" special ability, which enables Templars of certain deities to repulse religious enemies of theirs, such as Daemons and Undead, or is that already covered by Turning? I can't really say anything about points 2 and 3. With this, do you mean rules for mutations and rewards, or the mechanics for how to award them?
Paper_Bard 01-14-07, 07:44 PM	E-mail is 08netzls@mmci.retsd.mb.ca Litanies of hate wouldn't be necessary. There are feats in the Complete Divine which do just that, allow them to turn elementals, and demons, and the like. Just give them a bonus feat of that depenidng on their spheres or domains. I'm going to check my PMs box now, seems to have filled up.
Mist-Bound 01-14-07, 08:22 PM	Uhm... Paper Bard? I tried to email the sourcebook to you, but I got an email back from The Postmaster saying somethng about your mailbox exceeding the allowed size. I think you may have too many things in your inbox for me to be able to send it to you. Try clearing it up, and I'll try again.
Paper_Bard 01-15-07, 10:32 PM	Hmmm... this is very helpful. I must say this book you've given me will help us rather nicely. Mark of Chaos spell seems interesting... we could alter it to represent one of the four chaos gods, and set it to things that chaos deity would approve of. So, killing a bunch of guys would be Khorne's thing. Spreading disease and filth (and also killing people) would be Nurgle. Seeking out carnal pleasures for Slannesh, and pure, unadulterated chaos for Tzeentch. Got to look at the mutations again, but I still want to use the 'system' from d20_40k for handling mutations.
Mist-Bound 01-15-07, 10:40 PM	I said before that I'm fine with lifting the system for acquiring mutations from Skrittiblak's site, I was just suggestion Chaositech as possible rules for the mutations themselves. Speaking of Chaositech, what's your opinion on it Rhialto? Or haven't you gotten my email with it?
Paper_Bard 01-16-07, 06:37 PM	Rhialto? You've been kind of silent about my work. What do yout hink of the races I've made? Also, I had an idea for the elves. Each elven race seems to have a prefferred magic type. Drudic magic for Wood Elves, Sorcery for Dark Elves, and High Magic for High Elves. So, here's what I was thinknig for elves stats. High: +2 dex, +2 wis, +2 cha, +4 int, -2 str, -2 con. Obviosly a LA race. Maybe remove str penalty, not sure. Dark: +2 dex, +2 wis, +2 int, +4 cha, -2 str, -2 con Wood: +2 Dex, +2 int, +2 cha, +4 wis, -2 con, -2 str. Notice that they are all the same except for an additonal +2 bonus to relevant casting ability.
Rhialto 01-17-07, 03:53 AM	Regarding races, that is one area in which I have no expertise at all, so I don't think I can give a fair comment. They seem promising so far. I do have a feeling we should first concentrate on filling out enough to have an old world based campaign setting work before venturing farther afield. So no need to flesh out ogres and their pets yet. In any case, race stats is one area I have decided to take no personal involvement in building. (currently very busy working on a VR project for a major ISP company) Second thoughts on the elves: They should have a movement bonus, but some kind of penalty on carrying heavy loads - maybe equivalent to the penalty that Small characters have (75% normal capacity). This reflects a 3E WFB rule. I also don't see the differences between elves as being anythng more than cultural, so their stats should be identical. Differences might be better expressed in terms of cultural likes/hates (plus, those stat changes don't make sense in the context of the magic system we are using). My take on elf stats: base move one step higher than humans (whatever that is, haven't checked offhand). 75% normal encumbrance carrying capacity - elves have a slight build. Stats: -2 str, -2 con (more to help reduce level adjustment - the basis for this isn't really there in their profiles, and lower carry capacity already accounts for some of this), +4 dex (6 initiative in WFB = first strike against anything), +4 int (they are noted as second only to slann in magical ability), no wis/chr adjustment (they don't seem to have a lot of common sense as a race). Enhanced night/low light vision.
Paper_Bard 01-21-07, 09:37 PM	Ok... so now what?
Mist-Bound 01-21-07, 09:51 PM	What precisely do you mean? I think we actually have the basic races now (Human, Dwarf, Elf), so perhaps we should start on the classes?
Paper_Bard 01-22-07, 10:28 AM	Well... I like the priest class from the other thread... and this templar class looks good. I also like the non-magical bard and non-magical ranger. I think for elves and humans we can take the noble class form dragonlance campaign setting. It's pretty much the starwars d20 noble for fantasy. Kind of like a bard for pumping other party members up, but doesn't sing around like a fruit. So here's what I was thinking... Templar - Replaces paladin, but for multiple alignments. Monk- Not really sure. Maybe Cathay-exclusive? Rogue- Fine. No changes needed. Fighter- No change, duh! Priest- Non-militant religious servant. Domains effect disciplines. Cleric- Militant religious servant, though not as militant as the templar. Domains effect disciplines. Noble- As above Sorceror- Chaos and dark magic exclusive. Less chance of being hurt by the warp, but less spell selection. Uses Charisma. Also includes shamans. Wizard- Everyone else. Can learn spells from their discipline easily, can learn spells outside their disicpline, but spells are considered one level higher (Without raising the DC. (So no access to ninth level spells) Their caster level is also considered two lower. = Use disciplines from other thread. Barbarian- Same... fine as it is. Psionics- don't exist. Druids- No need. Wilderness domains give druid abilites to clerics or priests. What do you think? I was thinking divine casters can only cast spells provided by their domains. Their domains give a certain discipline they fall into, as well as domain-specific spells. For example: Animal domain. Gives access to animal companion. Covered under lore of beasts. Has some animal-specific spells not contained in lore of beasts. This gives clerics the potential to have two disciplines, but can't use spells outside of these, except for magical items. What do you think?
Mist-Bound 01-22-07, 12:53 PM	While I like the idea of including the Dragonlance Noble class as a potential Brd replacement, we've already done some thinking on the various classes-as you've guessed, the Templar is sort of a Paladin equivalent, also used to represent the various Knightly Orders. We've decided not to include the Monk, and the Sorcerer has also been canned as superfluous. We've also devised a unique method of spellcasting- see early in this topic, or the wiki for the details.
Paper_Bard 01-22-07, 05:34 PM	I know about the magic change. The thoughts going through my mind were the fact that all chaos spellcasters are called sorcerors or shamans. The rest are called wizards, preists, etc. Chaos would probably have less fireback against its own troops, so I was thinking a sorceror, while not like the one in dnd, could be appropriate. Monks are obviously out, as I find them to be a pointless, nerfy class anyway. Just thought I'd put it in there just in case someone still wanted to be.
Mist-Bound 01-22-07, 05:53 PM	A Chaos Sorcerer would really be just a multiclassed Templar (Chaos Gods)/Wizard- with the exception of a Tzeentchian sorcerer, who would just be a Templar of Tzeentch (I was thinking that Tzeentch's gift would be to make the Templar an Arcane spellcaster). This represents both the fact they're more "fighty" than other spellcasters (bar Ogre Butchers anyway) and the favour they're held in. And why would Chaos have less fireback against its own troops? Chaos is perhaps the least disconcerning about who dies in a battle.
Rhialto 01-23-07, 07:32 AM	My take on classes: Fighter - no changes Ranger - drop the spells, not sure what to give instead Barbarian - no change, but not for main campaign area Noble - new class Rogue - no changes Bard - elves only, drop the spells, replace with instrument/performance based feats Cleric - replaced with priest (mostly non-combatant comunity leader type spellcaster) Paladin - replaced with templar (spell-less variant of base class) Monk - *probably* no change, but not for main campaign area Druid - drop in favour of clerics following specific nature-based deities Wizard - significant changes to spellcasting system Sorceror - removed. Rendered obsolete with the magic changes ---- Special bonuses for templars of chaos powers (very provisional) blood god - enchant weapon (as detailed in an earlier post in this thread) pleasure god - +20 DR vs mind control effects, cast charm person level/3 times per day plague god - +20 DR vs disease and poison (ie virtually immune), d12 hit dice (very tough) change god - each 4 levels (round down) counts as one caster level ---- Regarding spellcasters and domains, every spell will be given one or more markers as being granted from a particular school of magic (8 colours, ice, one for each deity, necromantcy, possibly others). Divine casters gain a feat that grants them acces to their deity's spells. Arcane casters gain a feat at first level (and possibly more later) granting access to those spells appropriately marked. This is a very big todo list :/
Paper_Bard 01-23-07, 10:40 AM	True. However, the disciplines covered in the first thread (the one this is a rebirth of) had the wizards disciplines down pat. Personally, I think the wizards should be like the psions. Each one HAS to pick a discipline, and gains access to that discipline's spell-list. All wizards can select from non-discipline spells. Cleric's disciplines are dependent on their selected domains. Not sure how to do this.
Rhialto 01-23-07, 04:58 PM	Second thought on the "noble" class. Drop it. There's too much variation between nobles regarding combat ability among them for it to make much sense. Plus, I'm not sure how well it would translate into non-human cultures. Instead, replace it with a "scholar" class. Scholars are basically the mental equivalent to rogues in terms of their skill flexibility. This leaves the actual social position as a matter of role playing. Most imperial nobles would be a mix of fighter and scholar classes, in varying degrees, under this method.
Paper_Bard 01-24-07, 10:12 AM	I don't know. Just like in Starwars d20, the noble is not necessarily of 'noble' birth. Merchants, politicians, etc. can also be nobles.
Rhialto 01-24-07, 05:08 PM	I have a feeling that, regarding the actual abilities of the class, we are on the same wavelength (I haven't actually seen that noble class stated up). It's just that the term noble, to me, and I think most people, has "inherited social position" as the core concept behind the word, whereas scholar or academic or (bleh) expert would have "knowledge skill monkey" as the core concept behind the word, at least to people not familiar with the game-specific abuse of the English language.
Mist-Bound 01-24-07, 09:49 PM	So basically, the stats of the Noble class Paper Bard is talking about are alright, it just needs to be renamed? Okay then. Anyway, these are just a few general ideas on classes from me. The Chaos God abilities bestowed upon Templars are probably better dubbed as Feats which are bestowed upon the Chaos Templar when they take their first Templar level; this way, other classes can also receive Chaos Marks (the feats), but only true Champions (Chaos Templars)can ascend to Daemonhood. I like the rudimentary version of the Mark of Tzeentch, but I'd have it that the Templar functions as an Arcane spellcaster rather than a Divine one, to make them a bit closer to their base. It's especially appropriate given that Tzeentch is the God of Sorcery. I'd actually have the Mark of Slaanesh grant steadily increasing resistace to mind-affecting effects (positive and negative); this both renders them immune to things like fear, but also means the mind-altering drugs and the like they rely on grow less effective. Finally, Warhammer wizards have a very different system of acquiring Familiars to D&D Wizards -take a look at the myriad example Familiars at the Black Industries website- and this "random familiar generation" may prove problematic to integrate. ::EDIT:: Just took quick look at the Black Industries site, and I saw something there that I thought was worth mentioning: apparently, only Wizards who study one of the following Lores can have Familiars. Death, Fire, Light, Metal, Shadows, Chaos, Necromancy. Also, there's an excerpt of an upcoming adventure -Lure of the Lich Lord- and it cotains the official list of the major gods of the Nehekharan pantheon. See the excerpt for the precise details, but these are the basics: Ptra- The Sun God Asaph- Goddess of Beauty, Magic and Vengeance Djaf- God of Death Khsar- God of the Desert Phakth- God of the Sky and Justice Qu'aph- God of Snakes and Subtlety Ulatp- God of Scavengers Sokth- God of Scorpions, Poisoners and Thieves Basth- Goddess of Cats, Grace and Love Geheb- God of the Earth and Strength Tahoth- The Scholar of the Gods Usirian- God of the Underworld
Paper_Bard 02-09-07, 06:47 PM	Are we dead here?
Rhialto 02-10-07, 01:11 AM	In practical terms, I'm out for the next couple of months. I'm preparing to leave the country.
Mist-Bound 02-12-07, 09:59 PM	My computer's dead, so I'm off for however long it's going to take before I finally get my damn internet access reestablished, either by fixing the machine or getting a new one. I am still interested in this project though.
Paper_Bard 03-05-07, 04:26 PM	Crap Snap! I will not let this die! You hear me?!!!!!!!!
Mist-Bound 03-05-07, 04:50 PM	My machine's been replaced, so I'm ready, willing and able to resume work on this project if there's still interest. I just haven't got a clue what actually needs doing. I just got my hands on a copy of "Old World Bestiary"; maybe we can use that to devise the "Monster Lore results" for the critters of the Warhammer world?
Paper_Bard 03-09-07, 05:42 PM	I think we should compile things and figure out what the hell we actually have!
Mist-Bound 03-09-07, 06:01 PM	Works for me- suggestions how to do so?
Paper_Bard 03-12-07, 11:50 AM	I suggest we create our own rulebook thread, complete with the race and class stats, magic system we have agreed on. This will give us a good indivaion of what we have and what we don't.
Solarfall 03-26-07, 12:40 PM	hello! New version 0.93 of d20 Warheart is out! http://warheart.rpg.sk - new spellcasting fatigue system - Druid career added - Tomb robber career added - Cossack career updated - Battlemage career updated - all followers of Path of religion now receive 4 skill points per level - bonus spells for careers updated - updated heal skill - healing rate updated - suffered critical hit can be converted to regular hit using Fate point - called shots no longer impose penalty to defense - changed shield defense values - lowered penalty for some called shots - critical threat range multiplying updated - added optional combat rules
Mist-Bound 05-18-07, 09:23 PM	Okay, is anyone still interested in this project? Because we brought it pretty far- it'd be a real waste to see it just vanish again.
Paper_Bard 05-23-07, 09:15 PM	I'm still here.
Mist-Bound 05-23-07, 09:21 PM	Glad to hear it. So, what can we do to get this project back on its feet while we wait for Rhialto to return or for someone else to take his place?
Paper_Bard 05-23-07, 10:44 PM	Well... I guess we could try and put everything up in a ordered format. We could set up a blogg... or a website. I think We really need to take an index of what we have... and what we don't have. Then we can go from there. We need to agree on what we should use... and what we should not use. That wardraft thing might be good enough to look into.
Paper_Bard 05-23-07, 10:46 PM	http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=840921 Take a look at this. A better skaven race than ours!
Mist-Bound 05-23-07, 11:00 PM	Hmm, okay, could you perhaps put together the index? I've never done so, so I don't have a clue how.
Rhialto 05-24-07, 01:07 AM	I'm still here, and that wiki of mine is still there. I'd remake it as a public wiki, if that would help.
Mist-Bound 05-24-07, 01:26 AM	You are still here? Then that means the three of us are here- we can get this project back online! Rhialto, I think that making that wiki public might be a good idea, but I think our priority right now should be putting together that index so we can work out what we've done and decide where to go next. Can either you or Paper_Bard put that together? I'd do it myself, but I've no idea how. Also, Paper_Bard, I think we can just lift the Carrion Feeder and Black Hunger qualities from that version of the Skaven and apply them to our own, as I think our version has the better stats and other special qualities.
Paper_Bard 05-24-07, 11:14 AM	Well... thanks for the vote of confidence anyway. I've got a lot of catching up to do with school and all, but I can put everything together, hopefully in pdf when teh school year ends. By the way! Come see my blogg at paperbard.wordpress.com (http://paperbard.wordpress.com)
Rhialto 05-24-07, 11:24 AM	Also, Paper_Bard, I think we can just lift the Carrion Feeder and Black Hunger qualities from that version of the Skaven and apply them to our own, as I think our version has the better stats and other special qualities. I posted my response in more detail on the skaven thread, but my opinion is that those two special abilities do not belong on skaven.
Rhialto 05-26-07, 01:33 PM	This is a summary of teh major races so far. I have thsi as a word doc, so formatting may be off. Playable Races Note, playable doesn’t mean they should be an option for the heroes in a normal campaign. It means that rules have been designed to allow for these races to gain levels in various character classes. Humans • Medium: As Medium creatures, humans have no special bonuses or penalties due to their size. • Human base land speed is 30 feet. • 1 extra feat at 1st level. • 4 extra skill points at 1st level and 1 extra skill point at each additional level. • Languages: Reikspiel, Breton, Kislevite, Tilean, Estalian, Norse. • Favoured Class: Any. When determining whether a multiclass human takes an experience point penalty, his or her highest-level class does not count.   Dwarves +2 Str, +2 Con -2 Dex • Medium size class • Dwarf base land speed is 20 feet. However, dwarves can move at this speed even when wearing medium or heavy armour or when carrying a medium or heavy load (unlike other creatures, whose speed is reduced in such situations). • Darkvision 90’ (up from 60’ in SRD) • Stability: A dwarf gains a +4 bonus on ability checks made to resist being bull rushed or tripped when standing on the ground (but not when climbing, flying, riding, or otherwise not standing firmly on the ground). • +4 racial save bonus to resist the effects of alcohol. • +2 racial save bonus against poison. • Spell resistance of 10 + (level). • Magic sink: Any time a dwarf tries to cast a spell, they must pass a spell resistance check of 30 to succeed, reflecting their natural non-magical nature. They may choose spell-caster class levels, but gain no special benefit to compensate them for the effective loss of spell-casting ability. • +1 racial bonus on attack rolls against goblinoids and skaven (including skaven Clan Moulder creatures) • Languages: Khazalid, Reikspiel, Kislevite, Classical, Norse, Goblinoid, Ogrish • Favoured class: fighter • Restricted class: wizard and cleric aren’t restricted as such, but may as well be, given the dwarven non-magical nature. Dwarves may not be monks (low centre of gravity). • Axes: All dwarves have weapon proficiency in axe-based weapons that are: a) not pole arms, b) not exotic weapons, and c) not noted as being special to a particular race. (This isn’t a bonus at all for most warrior-type classes, but it does mean that the non-combat classes will still have access to the traditional dwarf weapons). • Stonecunning: This ability grants a dwarf a +2 racial bonus on Search checks to notice unusual stonework, such as sliding walls, stonework traps, new construction (even when built to match the old), unsafe stone surfaces, shaky stone ceilings, and the like. Something that isn’t stone but that is disguised as stone also counts as unusual stonework. A dwarf who merely comes within 10 feet of unusual stonework can make a Search check as if he were actively searching, and a dwarf can use the Search skill to find stonework traps as a rogue can. A dwarf can also intuit depth, sensing his approximate depth underground as naturally as a human can sense which way is up. • +2 racial bonus on Appraise checks that are related to stone or metal items. • +2 racial bonus on Craft checks that are related to stone or metal. • +1 level adjustment BattleAxe dwarves lose the SRD dwarf bonuses against giantkind and poison. They retain their skill in stone and metal based engineering and craftsmanship tasks, and their bonus against orcs is extended to goblinoids and skaven in general. Their biggest change is their strongly non-magical nature. Elves +4 Dex, +2 Int -2 Con • Medium size class • Base land speed is 40’. However, elves are lightweights, and can only carry only 3/4 of what a human of the same strength (exactly as if the character were of small size class), when determining their encumbrance limits. • Low-Light Vision: An elf can see twice as far as a human in starlight, moonlight, torchlight, and similar conditions of poor illumination. He retains the ability to distinguish colour and detail under these conditions. • Languages: Eltharin, Classical, Goblinoid, Reikspiel, Breton, Tilean, Estalian o Dark elves: Skink, Dark Tongue o High Elves: Skink, Norse, Cathayan, Nipponese, Indic, Arabian o Wood elves: — • Favoured class: ranger (wood elves), aristocrat (high and dark elves) • Restricted class: barbarian (too much self-control). • Weapon proficiency in longsword, short spear, plus all bow weapons (high and wood elves) or all crossbow weapons (dark elves). • Magic Affinity: Elves may take more than 3 colour of magic feats, and ignore the minimum level requirements to gain additional colour of magic feats. • +1 level adjustment BattleAxe Elves have no special resistance to magical sleep, charm, or enchantment effects. They also lose the special observation abilities that the SRD elves have. Rapier proficiency is replaced with short spear proficiency. Favoured class was changed from wizard, to reflect the low-magic bias of the BattleAxe world.   Halflings +2 Dex -2 Str, -2 Con • Small size class: +1 size bonus to Armour Class, a +1 size bonus on attack rolls, and a +4 size bonus on Hide checks. A Small character’s carrying capacity is 3/4 of that of a medium size character. • Halfling base land speed is 20 feet. • Spell resistance of 10 + (level). • Magic sink: Any time a halfling tries to cast a spell, they must pass a spell resistance check of 30 to succeed, reflecting their natural non-magical nature. They may choose spell-caster class levels, but gain no special benefit to compensate them for the effective loss of spell-casting ability. • +1 racial bonus on hit rolls when using slings, bows (not crossbows), or thrown weapons. • +4 racial bonus on cook and herbalist skills • Languages: Reikspiel, Breton, Tilean, Estalian. Halflings do not, apparently, have a language of their own. • Favoured class: rogue • Restricted class: wizard and cleric aren’t restricted as such, but may as well be, given the halfling non-magical nature. Halflings may not be monks (low centre of gravity) or academics (no one takes them seriously enough). BattleAxe Halflings, like dwarves, are non-magical in nature. Culturally, they make better cooks but worse scouts than SRD Halflings. They also lose the saving throw and fear resistance bonuses of SRD Halflings. Yep, BattleAxe Halflings are pretty much relegated to comic relief.   Ratmen +2 Dex -2 Wis, -2 Cha • Medium size class • Skaven base land speed is 40 feet, faster than normal humans. • Dark vision 90’ • Languages: Queekish, Goblinoid, Reikspiel, Breton, Tilean, Estalian, Dark Tongue, Ogrish o Clan Mors (warlords): — o Clan Moulder (beastmasters): Kislevite, Norse o Clan Pestilens (monastics): Skink, Arabian o Clan Eshin (sneaks): Cathayan, Indic, Nipponese o Clan Skryre (engineers): Classical • Scent (special ability): see SRD for detailed description. • +4 racial bonus to balance, climb, swim, hide, and move silently • +2 racial bonus to saving throws against warpstone, poison, and disease. • Clumsy paws: -2 racial skill penalty on all tasks that require fine manipulation (eg diarm traps, pick locks, pick pockets, juggling). This effectively counters the Dex bonus, making ratmen equal to humans in these areas. • Favoured class: rogue • Restricted class: none   Orc +2 Str, +2 Con -2 Int, -2 Cha • Medium size class • Orc base land speed is 30 feet, the same as normal humans. • Low-Light Vision: An orc can see twice as far as a human in starlight, moonlight, torchlight, and similar conditions of poor illumination. He retains the ability to distinguish colour and detail under these conditions. • Languages: Goblinoid, Reikspiel, Breton, Tilean, Estalian, Queekish, Dark Tongue, Ogrish • Ferocity (Ex): An orc is such a tenacious combatant that it continues to fight without penalty even while disabled or dying. • Skill penalty: Orcs lose -4 skill point at 1st level, and -1 for each level gained. • Favoured class: fighter (common orc) or barbarian (savage orc). • Orcs cannot take class levels in monk (they broadcast their combat movements quite readily), wizard (they aren’t attuned to the winds of magic), or aristocrat (real leaders make stuff go splat). Black orcs: bonus fighter feat, +4 Str (replaces original Str bonus). Rogue is a restricted class (big boyz don't sneak) Savage orcs: favoured class is barbarian, not fighter; Armour disdain (cannot learn armour proficiency feats)
Mist-Bound 05-26-07, 01:59 PM	Looks good so far, though the switch from "Warhammer" to "Battleaxe" is sort of confusing. Also, I don't really see why the Elf gets +1 LA. Then again, +6 stat points (effectively) compared to -2 stat points... I think I may have answered my own questions. So what next?
Rhialto 05-26-07, 03:38 PM	Goblin -2 Str, -2 Dex, -2 Int, -2 Wis, -2 Cha • Medium size class • Goblin base land speed is 30 feet, the same as normal humans. • Low-Light Vision: A goblin can see twice as far as a human in starlight, moonlight, torchlight, and similar conditions of poor illumination. He retains the ability to distinguish colour and detail under these conditions. • Languages: Goblinoid, Reikspiel, Breton, Tilean, Estalian, Queekish, Dark Tongue, Ogrish • Favoured class: rogue • Goblins cannot take class levels in monk (they broadcast their combat movements quite readily), wizard (they aren’t attuned to the winds of magic), or aristocrat (real leaders make stuff go splat).] • +1 racial attack bonus against dwarves. • -4 racial will save penalty against elves. Yes, these goblins are significantly weaker than orcs, and even compared to default humans. If you're playing a goblin, you're playing as comic relief, or for a real rp challenge.
Paper_Bard 05-26-07, 04:24 PM	Wait guys. I know my dwarve's weren't the best, but I still think my Skaven and Orc was pretty good.
Rhialto 05-26-07, 04:57 PM	ok, an explanation of what I did... I basically went through the thread, and grabbed the best bits of each racial description. For ability scores, I went back to the source material, and based adjustmenst off there; however, I tried hard to reduce the number of +/-4 point adjustments (the SRD doesn't include any adjustment bigger than 2). These posts were more about collating all the data so far into one place, plus a little co-ordinating to get their strength right wrt each other. The change to "BattleAxe": I've decided, to cover ourselves legally, to remove copyrighted terminology. The process isn't complete, but I'm working on it.
Paper_Bard 05-26-07, 08:47 PM	But orcs do become large size. Have you seen the black orcs? Or the Warbosses?
Mist-Bound 05-26-07, 09:39 PM	True, but I think right now we're just focusing on the most basic stuff. We might introduce a "growth with levels" aspect for the Orcs later. Then again, doesn't simply advancing HD normally add size to a creature?
Rhialto 05-27-07, 01:12 AM	d20 large size means 8-16 feet tall for humanoids (medium is 4-8 feet tall). wfb 6e doesn't give specific numbers to orc or black orc height. whfrp 1e says orcs "can often reach almost 7 feet in height", and that black orcs "range from 6 to 8 feet in height". That's big, but still within the limits of medium size. I can definitely go along with additional Str/Con stat bonuses (beyond what characters normally get for levelling), but not a size class change.
Paper_Bard 05-28-07, 06:14 PM	Well. I found some REALLY good older 3rd edition stuff which I think just reeks of warhammer. Take a look. For Chaos (http://vong.unbrokenfellowship.com/DNDbooks/NON%20WOTC/Green%20Ronin%20Publishing/D20%20-%20D%26D%20-%20Green%20Ronin%20Publishing%20-%20Master%20Class-%20The%20Unholy%20Warrior's%20Handbook.p df) For Dwarves (http://vong.unbrokenfellowship.com/DNDbooks/NON%20WOTC/Player/A%20Guidebook%20To/Hammer%20%26%20Helm.%20A%20Guidebook%20T o%20Dwarves.pdf) For Orcs (http://vong.unbrokenfellowship.com/DNDbooks/NON%20WOTC/Player/A%20Guidebook%20To/Wrath%20%26%20Rage.%20A%20Guidebook%20To %20Orcs%20And%20Half-Orcs.pdf)
Rhialto 05-30-07, 06:38 AM	That looks promising. I was browsing through a copy of d20 Future, and the Oathbound feat is definitely one that has relevance for priests and templars. Make it a freebie for priests, and one that can be taken by templars. Some variant on diplomatic immunity would also be good for aristocrats.
Rhialto 05-30-07, 12:45 PM	I've been going through a few source books, trying to find abilities that suit my concept of priest as community leader (rather than the SRD concept of priest as healing monkey and spellslinger). It just occurred to me that a great many of the abilities of the bard fit this concept quite well, as long as you replace "sing like an oots character" with "give a rousing sermon". Spcifically, the following could be used: Fascinate Inspire Courage Inspire Competence Suggestion Inspire Greatness Inspire Heroics Mass Suggestion Basically, all the music talents except Song of Freedom and Countersong, as they have their effect on an enchantment, not on people. These would use the lower of diplomacy (Cha) or profession (priest) (Wis). Similar to the original bard skill, these can be used once per priest level.
Mist-Bound 05-30-07, 07:59 PM	Some really good stuff coming so far. So I guess our current plan of attack is to try and mangle the classes and races into fitting?
Rhialto 05-31-07, 04:08 AM	Please comment on this. It's kind of a blend between cleric and bard. Seeing as how priests are intended to be social/community oriented and the bard class is removed, modifying the bard song ability seemed obvious. I also toned down their fighting ability, removed their ability to cast spells while armoured, and their spellcasting is reduced, in line with the low-magic concept. I'm particularly interested in thoughts about how balanced this class is. PRIEST Allegiance: Primary allegiance must be to the character’s deity. Hit Die: d6. Class Skills The priest’s class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Gather Information (Cha), Heal (Wis), Knowledge (arcana) (Int), Knowledge (history) (Int), Knowledge (religion) (Int), Knowledge (the planes) (Int), Perform (oratory) (Cha), Profession (priest) (Wis), and Spellcraft (Int). Priests of specific deities may be granted additional class skills. Skill Points at 1st Level: (6 + Int modifier) x4. Skill Points at Each Additional Level: 6 + Int modifier. Table: The Priest Level Base Attack Bonus Fort Save Ref Save Will Save Special 1st +0 +2 +0 +2 Priestly sermon, turn undead, fascinate, inspire courage +1 2nd +1 +3 +0 +3 3rd +2 +3 +1 +3 Inspire competence 4th +3 +4 +1 +4 5th +3 +4 +1 +4 6th +4 +5 +2 +5 Suggestion 7th +5 +5 +2 +5 8th +6/+1 +6 +2 +6 Inspire courage +2 9th +6/+1 +6 +3 +6 Inspire greatness 10th +7/+2 +7 +3 +7 11th +8/+3 +7 +3 +7 12th +9/+4 +8 +4 +8 Song of freedom 13th +9/+4 +8 +4 +8 14th +10/+5 +9 +4 +9 Inspire courage +3 15th +11/+6/+1 +9 +5 +9 Inspire heroics 16th +12/+7/+2 +10 +5 +10 17th +12/+7/+2 +10 +5 +10 18th +13/+8/+3 +11 +6 +11 Mass suggestion 19th +14/+9/+4 +11 +6 +11 20th +15/+10/+5 +12 +6 +12 Inspire courage +4 Class Features All of the following are class features of the priest. Weapon and Armour Proficiency: Priests are proficient with all simple weapons. Priests are proficient with light armour and shields (except tower shields). Priests of specific deities may have additional weapon or armour proficiencies. A priest can gain additional armour feats like any other character class; this is quite common for dual-class priest/templars. They suffers the usual increased chance of spell failure when wearing armour. Aura (Ex): A priest has a particularly powerful aura corresponding to the deity (see the detect aura (new for BattleAxe) spell for details). This can be both helpful to recognize potential allies, and a hindrance because it makes it that much easier to detect you for your enemies. Bonus languages: Classical. Priests of specific deities or geographical regions may have a different bonus language (eg. Old High Lizard, Hieratic, Dark Tongue, Oracle Bone Script). Spells: (system very much still under construction). Priests get 2d6 + Wis bonus mana points per caster level. In addition, priests receive a free feat at 1st level, which allows them to cast spells from a list that is unique to each deity. Specific notes for the non-magical races follow: Ogre priests: Ogres who worship the god of eating do not suffer their usual magic sink penalty. Dwarf priests: Dwarf priests can inscribe a spell onto an object as a rune. Exact details are still to be decided, but they will probably get an array of craft item feats. Dwarves who try to cast spells directly will suffer the usual magic sink penalty. Halfling priests: no special compensation or being a magic sink. You're the comic relief. besides, you get to give a good sermon. Priestly Sermon: A priest can use his oratory and sermons to produce magical effects on those around him (usually including himself, if desired). These abilities fall under the category of priestly sermon, and they are activated by a spoken performance, despite their similarity to the bardic music ability of d20 SRD bards. These abilities can be used a number of times equal to the character’s priest level plus the character’s Charisma bonus. Each ability requires both a minimum priest level and a minimum number of ranks in the Perform (oratory) skill to qualify; if a priest does not have the required number of ranks in Perform (oratory) skill, he does not gain that priestly sermon ability until he acquires the needed ranks. Starting a priestly sermon effect is a standard action. Some priestly sermon abilities require concentration, which means the priest must take a standard action each round to maintain the ability. Even while using priestly sermon that doesn’t require concentration, a priest cannot cast spells, activate magic items by spell completion (such as scrolls), or activate magic items by magic word (such as wands). Just as for casting a spell with a verbal component, a deaf priest has a 20% chance to fail when attempting to use priestly sermon. If he fails, the attempt still counts against his daily limit. Because these abilities rely on a common knowledge of religious parables and lore, beneficial effects of priestly sermons will only function for characters of the same cultural background who are familiar with the priest character’s religion. Effects that harm or restrict the subject (turn undead, fascination, suggestion, and mass suggestion) will work normally, as long as the priest can be heard and understood. Turn Undead (Su): Not all priests can turn undead, and some priests have a turning power that works against creatures other than the undead. The specific type of creatures affected by this power (if available) will vary depending on the deity concerned. Each turning attempt counts as one use of the priestly sermon ability. Countersong (Su): This is not part of the priestly sermon ability. This entry is here to confirm that nothing is missing. Fascinate (Sp): A priest with 3 or more ranks in Perform (oratory) skill can use his sermons to cause one or more creatures to become fascinated with him. Each creature to be fascinated must be within 90 feet, able to see and hear the priest, and able to pay attention to him. The priest must also be able to see the creature. The distraction of nearby combat or other dangers prevents the ability from working. For every three levels a priest attains beyond 1st, he can target one additional creature with a single use of this ability. To use the ability, a priest makes a Perform check. His check result is the DC for each affected creature’s Willpower save against the effect. If a creature’s saving throw succeeds, the priest cannot attempt to fascinate that creature again for 24 hours. If its saving throw fails, the creature sits quietly and listens to the sermon, taking no other actions, for as long as the priest continues to speak and concentrate (up to a maximum of 1 round per priest level). While fascinated, a target takes a –4 penalty on skill checks made as reactions, such as Listen and Spot checks. Any potential threat requires the priest to make another Perform check and allows the creature a new saving throw against a DC equal to the new Perform check result. Any obvious threat, such as someone drawing a weapon, casting a spell, or aiming a ranged weapon at the target, automatically breaks the effect. Fascinate is an enchantment (compulsion), mind-affecting ability. Inspire Courage (Su): A priest with 3 or more ranks in Perform (oratory) skill can use a sermon to inspire courage in his allies (including himself), bolstering them against fear and improving their combat abilities. To be affected, an ally must be able to hear the priest speak. The effect lasts for as long as the ally hears the priest speak and for 5 rounds thereafter. An affected ally receives a +1 morale bonus on saving throws against charm and fear effects and a +1 morale bonus on attack and weapon damage rolls. At 8th level, and every six priest levels thereafter, this bonus increases by 1 (+2 at 8th, +3 at 14th, and +4 at 20th). Inspire courage is a mind-affecting ability. Inspire Competence (Su): A priest of 3rd level or higher with 6 or more ranks in Perform (oratory) skill can use his sermon to help an ally succeed at a task. The ally must be within 30 feet and able to see and hear the priest. The priest must also be able to see the ally. The ally gets a +2 competence bonus on skill checks with a particular skill. Certain uses of this ability are infeasible. The effect lasts for as long as the ally hears the priest concentrate on speaking, and for 5 rounds thereafter. A priest can’t inspire competence in himself. Inspire competence is a mind-affecting ability. Suggestion (Sp): A priest of 6th level or higher with 9 or more ranks in Perform (oratory) skill can make a suggestion (as the spell) to a creature that he has already fascinated (see above). Using this ability does not break the priest’s concentration on the fascinate effect, nor does it allow a second saving throw against the fascinate effect. Making a suggestion doesn’t count against a priest’s daily limit on priestly sermons. A Willpower saving throw (DC 10 + 1/2 priest’s level + priest’s Cha modifier) negates the effect. This ability affects only a single creature (but see mass suggestion, below). Suggestion is an enchantment (compulsion), mind-affecting, language dependent ability. Inspire Greatness (Su): A priest of 9th level or higher with 12 or more ranks in Perform (oratory) skill can use a sermon to inspire greatness in himself or a single willing ally within 30 feet, granting him or her extra fighting capability. For every three levels a priest attains beyond 9th, he can target one additional ally with a single use of this ability (two at 12th level, three at 15th, and four at 18th). To inspire greatness, a priest must speak and an ally must hear him speak. The effect lasts for as long as the ally hears the priest speak and for 5 rounds thereafter. A creature inspired with greatness gains 2 bonus Hit Dice (d10s), the commensurate number of temporary hit points (apply the target’s Constitution modifier, if any, to these bonus Hit Dice), a +2 competence bonus on attack rolls, and a +1 competence bonus on Fortitude saves. The bonus Hit Dice count as regular Hit Dice for determining the effect of spells that are Hit Dice dependant. Inspire greatness is a mind-affecting ability. Song of Freedom (Sp): is not part of the priestly sermon ability. This entry is here to confirm that nothing is missing. Inspire Heroics (Su): A priest of 15th level or higher with 18 or more ranks in Perform (oratory) skill can use a sermon to inspire tremendous heroism in himself or a single willing ally within 30 feet. For every three priest levels the character attains beyond 15th, he can inspire heroics in one additional creature. To inspire heroics, a priest must speak and an ally must hear the priest speak for a full round. A creature so inspired gains a +4 morale bonus on saving throws and a +4 dodge bonus to AC. The effect lasts for as long as the ally hears the priest speak and for up to 5 rounds thereafter. Inspire heroics is a mind-affecting ability. Mass Suggestion (Sp): This ability functions like suggestion, above, except that a priest of 18th level or higher with 21 or more ranks in Perform (oratory) skill can make the suggestion simultaneously to any number of creatures that he has already fascinated (see above). Mass suggestion is an enchantment (compulsion), mind-affecting, language-dependent ability. Ex-Priests A priest character knowingly loses faith with his deity cannot progress in levels as a priest, and loses all priestly sermon and spellcasting ability granted from his priest character class levels.
Paper_Bard 05-31-07, 09:04 PM	I like it. I can't get the image of a southern gospel man running around, smacking people's heads yelling 'You Are Healed!".:D Nice. I like it. I think clerics should still be a class, as they are more the military arm of the church, like the priests of sigmar who go around killing demons. Also, you should probably give Demons a bonus agianst their abilites. I can't see preaching at a Bloodthirster of Khorne really helping... at all.
Mist-Bound 05-31-07, 10:41 PM	I like the class, and as Rhialto has pointed out before, the Priest of Sigmar/Ulric from the wargame would probably be best handled as a multiclassed Priest/Templar in this. I ask again, and could someone please answer so I can stop asking, are we going to use Fear, Horror and/or Madness saves or Outsider Rating in this setting of ours? They all just seem appropriate, and the Fear and Horror saves could be a good way to convey the Fear and Terror qualities from the wargame. Oh, and this feat just came to me; thought it might be good for the Chaos Champion or "Dark Magister" (Chaos Wizard). Daemon Minion Through sorcerous pact of the favours of the Dark Gods, you have ensnared a Daemon and bound it to your soul. Though the aethyrical entity may loath its servitude, it is subject to your will and cannot disobey. Prerequisites: Allegiance- Chaos, Will save bonus equal to or greater than that of your chosen Daemon Benefit: you have ensnared the service and 'loyalty' of a Daemon of HD equal to or less than your total character level and thus you may command this Daemon like any cohort. Because the two of you share a spiritual link, the Daemon cannot act against you. Also, the link grants it greater access to the world of flesh, and thus you may call it from the Aethyr with an act of will rather than the normal elaborate ceremony; doing this requires a full-round action. Whilst in the material plane, the Daemon benefits from its link by subtly feeding off your soul; it is not prone to Daemonic Unravelling so long as you are alive. Special: you may take this feat multiple times. Each time it is chosen you may choose to either advance your Daemon or to acquire the service of another Daemon.
Rhialto 06-01-07, 02:12 AM	Also, you should probably give Demons a bonus agianst their abilites. I can't see preaching at a Bloodthirster of Khorne really helping... at all. I think that bloodthirster might be... amused. :devil: Since fascinate is an enchantment (compulsion), mind-affecting ability, demons might generally be immune to it anyway, I'll have to double check. The only other powers priests have that could affect them is suggestion, which relies on fascinate working in the first place, and turn undead flvaoured to work against demons, which frankly should work against them. Still, even so, it may be good to note that it only works on natural living sentient creatures. For this priest class, I'm thinking maybe tone down the combat abilities (and that fortitude save), and give him sme community/aid/leadership style talents. Unfortunately, there aren't many of those. Fear/horror/madness: It seems like a good idea, but at this stage, I think it's trying to run before we can walk in terms of designing the system.
Rhialto 06-01-07, 05:46 PM	For your review, I present the aristocrat character class. Presently open to humans, elves, dwarves, and ratmen. Closed to halflings, orcs, and goblins. This material is Open Game Content, and is licensed for public use under the terms of the Open Game License v1.0a. ARISTOCRAT Hit Die: d6. Class Skills The aristocrat’s class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Appraise (Int), Bluff (Cha), Diplomacy (Cha), Disguise (Cha), Gather Information (Cha), Handle Animal (Cha), Intimidate (Cha), Knowledge (all skills taken individually) (Int), Listen (Wis), Perform (Cha), Ride (Dex), Sense Motive (Wis), Speak Language, Spot (Wis), Swim (Str). Skill Points at 1st Level: (6 + Int modifier) x4. Skill Points at Each Additional Level: 6 + Int modifier. Table: The Aristocrat NPC Level Base Attack Bonus Fort Save Ref Save Will Save Special 1st +0 +0 +0 +2 Bonus language, request shelter, social knowledge, born to command +1 2nd +1 +0 +0 +3 High society I 3rd +1 +1 +1 +3 4th +2 +1 +1 +4 5th +2 +1 +1 +4 Born to command +2, leadership feat 6th +3 +2 +2 +5 7th +3 +2 +2 +5 High Society II 8th +4 +2 +2 +6 9th +4 +3 +3 +6 Landlord, born to command +3 10th +5 +3 +3 +7 2nd cohort 11th +5 +3 +3 +7 12th +6/+1 +4 +4 +8 13th +6/+1 +4 +4 +8 Born to command +4, epic leadership feat 14th +7/+2 +4 +4 +9 15th +7/+2 +5 +5 +9 3rd cohort 16th +8/+3 +5 +5 +10 17th +8/+3 +5 +5 +10 Born to command +5 18th +9/+4 +6 +6 +11 19th +9/+4 +6 +6 +11 Legendary commander feat 20th +10/+5 +6 +6 +12 4th cohort Class Features The following is a class feature of the aristocrat NPC class. Weapon and Armor Proficiency: The aristocrat is proficient in the use of all simple and martial weapons and with all types of armor and shields. Bonus Language: Aristocrats may learn Classical. This is of no benefit to dwarves and elves, as they already have this as a bonus language. Humans of non-European cultures should substitute Hieratic, Old Indic, or Oracle Bone Script, as appropriate. Social Knowledge: Aristocrats are “well-connected” and accumulate much miscellaneous information. This ability works just like Bardic Knowledge, with aristocrat levels considered equivalent to bard levels. Request Shelter: An aristocrat may request shelter from his peers (other aristocrats, and their recognized representatives) for a number of people equal to twice his aristocrat level. This can be used for up to 3 consecutive days at the same site. Class levels in fighter, templar, and priest (not barbarian, ranger, rogue, or wizard) will stack with aristocrat for purposes of determining how many people can gain shelter from this request. Born to Command: Aristocrats are natural leaders, with the confidence and authority that is often lacking in those not born to the role. They gain a +1 bonus to their Leadership rating (as described in the Leadership feat), plus an additional +1 for every 4 levels above 1st (i.e. 5th, 9th, 13th, 17th). They also gain Leadership as a bonus feat at 5th level (normally, characters have to be at least 6th level to qualify for this), and Epic Leadership at 13th (again, waiving the usual requirements) which allows for Leadership ratings above 25. Finally, at 19th level, they gain the Legendary Commander epic feat (again, waiving the usual requirements, except the need to have a stronghold and rule a substantial region) which allows ten times the usual number of followers, enough for a small army. Aristocrats can also gain additional cohorts. At 10th, 15th and 20th level, an additional cohort can be recruited. In each case, the maximum permitted experience level of the new recruit drops by 2 levels compared to the previous one. Thus, a 20th level Aristocrat-Socialite (or Aristocrat) could have 4 cohorts at 18th, 16th, 14th and 12th level. High Society I: At 2nd level, an aristocrat gains +2 charisma bonus when dealing with commoners from his own nation. High Society II: At 7th level, an aristocrat gains +4 charisma bonus when dealing with commoners from his own nation, and gains +2 charisma bonus when dealing with nobles of lesser social rank than himself from your own nation. Leadership: An aristocrat automatically receives the leadership feat for free at 5th level, epic leadership (allows effective leadership scores over 25) at 13th level, and legendary commander (10x usual number of followers) at 19th level. Landlord: (inspired by Stronghold Builders’ Guidebook p10) The aristocrat may use his connections with family, masons, architects, and other noble houses to get extra funding to build a stronghold (or an additional one). In order to take advantage of this extra funding, the character will need to seek approval for the general site and layout of the stronghold. This funding cannot be cashed out; either it is used to build a stronghold, or it is set aside and has no benefit. At 9th level, 25,000 gp worth of goods and services are made available to the character, in addition to whatever the character himself provides. Additional funds are made available to the character as he gains new levels. A character need not spend all this money at once, and may save it to build a bigger stronghold. The funding listed in the table below refers to the character’s total funds received over his entire career. Class levels in fighter, templar, and priest (not barbarian, ranger, rogue, or wizard) will stack with aristocrat for purposes of determining how much funding the character receives for this bonus. However, the character must still have 9 levels in aristocrat to receive the bonus. Level Stronghold Allowance 9 25,000 10 50,000 11 75,000 12 100,000 13 150,000 14 200,000 15 250,000 16 300,000 17 400,000 18 500,000 19 600,000 20 800,000 Ex-Aristocrats An aristocrat who is disowned by his noble family, stripped of his noble rank, or otherwise irredeemably disgraced before his peers, loses all aristocrat class-based feats and special bonuses except: bonus language and social knowledge, and the leadership feat that is gained at 5th level. The character does not retain the epic leadership feat, legendary commander feat, born to command bonus, extra cohorts, high society, or request shelter bonuses.
Rhialto 06-03-07, 06:44 PM	Extra note on humans as a player race: 1st level humans must choose one of fighter, ranger, or rogue as their favoured class. Humans from the Empire are culturally pre-disposed towards those occupations. Norse humans may choose from fighter, ranger, or barbarian for their favoured class.
Paper_Bard 06-03-07, 08:40 PM	I don't know... I prefer the aristocrat from Dragonlance campaign setting. 1: It gives a secular alternative to the priest for those who don't want to be bound to being a priest. 2: Some of the abilites for your class, like the landlord ability, seem useless in a dungeoncrawl. It just seems to specilaized, like the time I played a beguiler in a pure combat game (i did not know this when I made my char).
Rhialto 06-04-07, 02:43 AM	Where can I find this Dragonlance aristocrat class? For this aristocrat class, I was actually trying to create a class that would shine in an urban area. Sure, most of their abilities are useless in a dungeoncrawl. In any case, looking through past adventures published in our favourite campaign world, very few adventures are actually pure dungeon crawls. Lots of them have significant portions set in urban environments.
Romaal 06-06-07, 06:34 PM	What's about the Cleric Variant "Cloistered Cleric" from Unearthed Arcana instead of the Priest Class? Instead of Ranger the Scout Class from Complete Adventurer could be used.
Mist-Bound 06-06-07, 06:42 PM	I can't remember what th Cloistered Cleric is like, so I can't speak on it, but as for the Scout... I think it's a good idea; seems close enough to what we're after to be usable straight off the bat. What do you think Rhialto?
Romaal 06-07-07, 04:58 AM	Go here for the Cloistered Cleric: http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#clericVarian tCloisteredCleric Glad I can help. I would want to join the project too if I'm allowed to.
Mist-Bound 06-07-07, 06:43 PM	If you want to join, I've no problem with it. The more the better is my opinion. What do you two think? Shall we let him on the team?
Rhialto 06-07-07, 07:49 PM	I see no reason why not. I've been digesting the classes over at http://www.liquidmateria.info/wiki/Ultimate_Classes
Romaal 06-08-07, 05:22 AM	Ok, thx a lot. One problem I have with the rulebook is, that it is splitted across this thread. If I've got time too, I'll pack this into a PDF-File and also convert it to typical D&D style. This would improve the working conditions since everyone has got a better overview. Maybe Mordheim is also a good inspiration and source for this work. The complete Rulebook is available for free download here: http://www.specialist-games.com/mordheim/rulebook.asp
Rhialto 06-08-07, 06:04 AM	I'm tempted to say Mordheim, being designed as a means of selling miniatures for skirmish level battles, doesn't really try to do the roleplaying aspect we are aiming for. That's just based off the game's blurb though. ETA: Also, as part of this project, I intend stripping out all their brand-identity words and phrases. I don't fancy this project getting shut down by lawyers. Concepts for the character classes: Fighter - you basic sword-arm for hire. Makes a good soldier or general. Favoured class for dwarves and orcs. Ranger - outdoorsy warrior type. Good with bows, or 2 swords. or animals. or something. No spells or blatantly supernatural abilities. Favoured class for wood elves. Barbarian - Thrud make orc go splat. Favoured class for savage orcs. Monk - Unarmed/exotic weapons combat specialist. Not for the core European setting. Cathayans, Nipponese, Dark elves, and Skaven could have this class, *possibly* (might make those have ranger options instead). Rogue - Pretty much the same as the vanilla D&D rogue. Favoured class for halflings, goblins, and ratmen. Aristocrat - A minor member of the noble houses, or a son of a wealthy merchant. Emphasis is on wealth, education, intrigue, influence, and socializing/carousing skills rather than leadership. Within noble circles, these are court nobles rather than battle leaders. Favoured class for high elves and dark elves. Priest - A cleric without the combats ability, but community-oriented leadership skills. These guys are community leaders with some magical ability. Templar - Paladin substitute. No spells. Must take a kit that corresponds to his deity. These guys represent the martial side of a religious order. Traditional D&D clerics woudl be represented by multi-class priest/templars. Chaos champions and sorcerors would be multi-class, with levels in templar, wizard, and/or priest. Wizard - These guys make the laws of physics shut up and sit down. Other core classes don't exist. Probably delete the prestige classes too, especially if we take a leave from that ultimate character classes wiki page.
Romaal 06-08-07, 08:31 AM	When I mentioned Mordhein, I dind't mention it for the rules, but for the flavor. I like the equipment and the presentation of the bands. I like your listing of the classes. But still have to add that the ranger class should be replaced by the scout class, because I think that one focuses more on the aspect we're searching for Warhammer D20. I also wouldn't delete all the prestige classes. Think of the specialized units in Warhammer armies. For example: - Slayers in Dwarven armies --> Frenzied Berserkers or Battleragers - WAAGH-Bosses --> Orc Warlords - Necromancers --> True Necromancers I think there are several professions in the Old World which need to be represented by PCs. What do you think?
Rhialto 06-08-07, 09:17 AM	Considering the gross changes we've already made to the spellcasters class, I woudn't consider it wrong to re-write all teh classes completely. The fluf and skillset of the Complete Adventurer's scout class looks great to me, but I don't see any special reason not to call our ranger a "ranger", since that is one of the original archetype names from our primary source, and it isn't a brand identity name. A dwarf slayer could probably be imagined as a dwarf fighter/barbarian (especially one with the frenzy or rage optiosn from http://www.liquidmateria.info/wiki/Ultimate_Barbarian). A waagh boss isn't conceptually all that different from a high level fighter. I don't recall seeing any particular special group of orc leaders different from regular orc leaders. The magic system is fairly well-developed (mostly on my hard drive), and doesn't really adapt too well to the concept of prestige classes.
Mist-Bound 06-08-07, 10:23 AM	Sorry to interrupt, but for PrCs we could actually probably make one or two custom ones to represent certain special units. For example, for our version of the Wizard, we might be able to make a Battle Wizard PrC, which might grant them a bonus to casting spells "on the fly", or just simple access to more powerful combat-related spells. Technically, even the basic Wizard (as in, the Empire Hero unit) is a Battle Wizard, and is thus able to cast spells not availible in the Warhammer Roleplay. Creeping Shadows, for example, is a Battle Magic spell for the Lore of Shadows. Speaking of magic, can you just refresh me on the basics of our system? Also, I know I keep saying this, but I really think I have some material you can use for the "Chaos Champion" version of the templar. Chaos Armor: Extraordinary Ability, gained at 1st level. I'm thinking a +2 Profane bonus to Natural Armor at 1st level, and a further +1 bonus with each subsequent Templar level. The Ultimate Gamble: Extraordinary Ability, gained at 1st level but doesn't come into play until 2nd. Basically, each time the Chaos Templar takes a level in Templar, they need to make a Will save, the difficulty of which is determined by the number of mutations they have. Success means they take the level with no problems. Failure means that their mind breaks under the influx of chaos and they become Chaos Spawn. I'm not too sure about the DC for the save, but we could go for a base of 5 (1st mutation), with a further +2 for each subsequent mutation. For Tzeentch Templars, I'm thinking an ability where either the DC of this save is lessened or they have the ability to take 10 on the save. Final Ascension: at level 20, assuming the Templar makes their Ultimate Gamble save, they receive the full favour of their patron and ascend to Daemonhood. Type changes to Outsider, with the Native subtype (and Daemon subtype as well?) and they gain a Flight movement of 30 feet per round with Average Maneuverability (if they already have the ability to fly, then they increase its movement rate by +10ft/round and their maneuverability becomes Average- or if already average or better, increases by one step). Not too sure if there's any other changes that should be made... other than perhaps the ability to trade off previous boons ("levels" of Chaos Armour, mutations etc) for Daemonic Gifts (feats).
Rhialto 06-11-07, 04:27 PM	http://boards1.wizards.com/wotc_archive/index.php/t-696683 That link is my original post on my magic system. I'm writing up a neatened version of it. One key change is that spells now cost 1d6 man per spell level, not 1d20. This is mainly because fistfuls of d20s are awkward to add up, but also to give 1st level casters a decent chance to cast 2 spells in a row. That chaos armour looks good. I'd make it a feat choosable only by templars of a chaos power. Regarding "battle magic", I see the main difference between battle wizards and regular wizards as the array of spells in their books, not a specific character class. Genuine combat spells are probably guarded like military secrets. Perhaps one job of the Sigmarian inquisitors is to identify wizards outside the official colleges who have such battle magic spells.
Mist-Bound 06-11-07, 04:42 PM	Yeah, probably best to make Battle Wizards just high(ish) Wizards with certain spells known and appropriate feats & skills. You like the Chaos Armour I came up with? What about the rules for Damnation & Ascension (becoming a Chaos Spawn or Daemon Prince)? nd, yeah, Chaos Armour is only availible to the Chaos Champion- I was thinking make it a class feature, as all Chaos Champions wear Chaos Armour (mere Chaos Worshippers, on the other hand, don't). And 1D6 mana per level sounds a better cost, especially given that mages only get 1D6 mana per level. Otherwise you'd have spellcasters who can't even manifest a cantrip. Oh, and I think you mislinked; that takes me to an archived page detailing a different modification of the core spellcasting rules. Speaking of spells, are we allowing Wizards (as in, non-"special" arcane spellcasters) to learn spells from different schools? I just thought I'd ask because I have a copy of the current Realms of Sorcery book and there are a few things I thought I might point out. 1: it is actually possible to use different Winds of magic, in fact Hedge Wizards do it all the time, however the risk is that using multiple magics raises the possibility of "summoning" two different winds simultaneously, which will then merge into Dhar. 2: Imperial Wizards are strictly taught/focused by their Colleges to master their appropriate aspect. This removes the risk of creating Dhar, but as they grow more experienced they become so attuned to their specific wind that they have a harder time seeing the other winds, eventually losing the capacity altogether. 3: Dhar and Qhaysh are both forms of "unified" Wind. Dhar is what results when two or more winds flow together, roughly fusing into a single, primordial energy- which is why it's so damned dangerous. Qhaysh is created by "weaving" multiple winds together, producing a spell-construct that is unified, and yet each component wind is distinct
Rhialto 06-11-07, 05:28 PM	ok, this is still not the formalised version... Mana Pool Casters get 2d6 + INT/WIS bonus mana points each level. Spells cost 1d6 mana per spell level. Cantrips cost 1 mana. Any roll of 6 means roll one extra dice beyond what's already there. After you deduct your mana cost, consult the following table: 1+ mana left - spell works exactly 1, or an exact multiple of 10: spell works, and minor magical side-effect (mostly harmless) 0 or less left - spell fails. Something worse might also happen. Mana Recovery mana regenerates in full after a night's sleep. It also regenerates at 1 point per hour. For each full 10 points of base mana, you regenerate an extra point per hour. Goblinoids only: (replaces above paragraph) mana regenerates in full after a night's sleep. It also regenerates at 1 point per hour, if there is at least one other orc (or 2 goblins) within 120 feet. For each 10 orcs (goblins count as half) within 120 feet, you regenerate an extra point per hour. Skaven only: Can eat a warpstone chunk. Restores 2d6 mana, and fort save or lose 2d6 hit points. Feats: Templars and Priests get a "Mark of (patron)" feat. This is detectable by low level magic. Priests get a "(patron) Magic" feat at first level. Wizards get (at first level) a "(colour) School Magic" feat. Wizards may acquire additional magic school feats at later levels. Spells can be tagged with more than one feat. A caster only needs one of the listed feats to be able to learn the spell. Feats summary: (patron) Magic - allows access to divine magic spells (1-9th level) tagged with this feat of teh appropriate patron. (colour) School Magic - allows access to arcane magic spells (1-9th level) tagged with this feat of the appropriate school. Schools available: Colours (x8), High, Dark, Ice, Necromantic. Generalist School Magic (special) - allows access to low level magic spells (1-3rd level) from 3 schools chosen by the wizard. Where are the spells stored? Both wizards and priests need spellbooks. A caster can have any number of spells in their spellbook. A caster can have up to (INT/WIS + caster level) spells in memory. A spell can be placed in their memory with 10 minutes of study. If the caster's memory is already full, he may choose which spell is forgotten. A caster can spontaneously cast any spell in memory. In addition, a caster can spontaneously cast any spell in their spellbook if they have that book open in front of them. Scrolls cannot be used this way, as they contain only an abbreviated version of the spell, not the full spell.
Rhialto 06-11-07, 06:19 PM	Summary of casters by race: Skaven: priests (Horned rat). Skaven wizards - (very drafty concept) can't memorise spells, but bonus crafting feats Goblinoids: priests (Gork or Mork). No wizards. Skinks: priests (specific Slann), could be a wizard, but none in mainstream society, as that would be going against the slanns' great plan. Beastmen: Priests (chaos gods), wizards too. Humans: both ok Ogres: priests (Great Maw), no wizards Halflings: hahahahaha Elves: both ok Dwarves: Priests ok, no wizards
Mist-Bound 06-11-07, 06:25 PM	Hmm... for Skinks, you might want to consider having it that they are Wizards, but are considered Priests by their society. Basically, they're religious mages who practise the Lore associated with their patron Old One- the default (Skink Priest of Tzunki) uses the Lore of Heavens, but there's a White Dwarf article detailing the "cults" of the various Old Ones and each of the seven cults has a Skink Priest who uses a different Lore of magic- Fire, Shadows, etc. I can dig that article up if you want. Actually, just follow this list. The rules are official, so... I don't know. Having Skink spellcasters be Wizards with faith/Knowledge (Religion) just seems right for some reason. http://uk.games-workshop.com/lizardmen/sacred-spawnings/1/
Rhialto 06-11-07, 06:50 PM	Hmm, how about make those skinsk priests (and use Wis as their main stat), but the spells their patron gives them just happen to correspond to the arcane magic schools. Has a neat symmetry in explaining Slann magical affinity.
Mist-Bound 06-11-07, 10:02 PM	Works pretty well for me. After all, weren't we going to stat up some of the lower generation Slaan as Powers?
Paper_Bard 06-13-07, 11:22 AM	I'm still here, by the way. Nice to see another member of our confused crew. Did anyone take a look at those PDFs I linked to? You hav to go 'save file as'
Rhialto 06-14-07, 12:36 PM	More thoughts... High elves shouldn't generally choose priest as a character class option. They do have a rich tradition of magic (wizards), and they have a well-developed mythology. But teh background material suggests that, rather than call upon the aid of warp entities (gods) to help them channel magic, the old slann taught them to be more self-reliant. Perhaps the slann were afraid that, without their direct guidance, it might be difficult for the elves to judge which warp entities had their best interests at heart, and which were out to destroy the elves. By insisting that the elves study magic directly, they could insulate the elves better against such threats. As such, those minor warp entities that were toeventually become the various elven gods never thrived. This plan of the slann unfortunately didn't protect the dark elves, who were seduced by the power of the chaos gods. Dark elves especially follow Khaine and Slaanesh. High elves do have priests. Mostly, these would be commoners or aristocrats with high ranks in knowledge (religion) rather than actual spellcasting priests. Thanks to the slann plan, high elves are a very secular society, and are rather distrustful of magic that comes from warp entities, no matter how benign those entities may be. Wood elf magic is a little trickier. I am not sure whether to interpret them as priests taking the aid of a warp entity formed from the collective consciousness of the forest, or to say they have learned to perceive a distinctive colour of magic. Calling it a distintive colour (wizard) has the problem that it ovelaps heavily with both jade and amber magic, but calling it a new minor warp entity (priest) has the problem that there is no specific source that explicitly makes this so.
Mist-Bound 06-18-07, 01:57 AM	That bit about the High and Dark elves makes sense to me. In fact, as far as I know, Druchii worship only Khaine (God of Murder, though I'm not entirely sure whether he's a distinct entity from Khaela Mensha Khaine, elven god of war, or as aspect of him) officially, though Slaanesh's cult is widespread and, I think, returned to public view after the Storm of Chaos. And for Wood elves... that is tricky. Given how Treesingers (or whatever Asrai mages call themselves) are the closest thing the Warhammer world has to D&D's Druids, having their power as a Divine branch (I'm pretty sure it's stated to stem from the fae/innate magic of Athel Loren) seems to make the most sense. Especially, as you've pointed out, that it otherwise overlaps with Life and Beast arcane magic.
Rhialto 06-19-07, 11:53 AM	Regarding Kaine, both the wfb and wh40k fluff suggest that they are one and the same. the khaela mensha bit is just a title that isn't translated from Elvish, acquired after a certain point in the respective mythologies.
Rhialto 06-22-07, 05:59 AM	Edits: reduced magic plus by one point (so it is initially no magic plus, but still counts as magical, and still doesn't restrict the wearer). removed will save bonus. Moved the free movement and no skill check penalty bonus to a separate add-on feat. reduced the Con bonus for "fused with bosy" from max of 18 or +2 to a plain +2. * Chaos armour can appear in a variety of forms, from platemail up to full suit armour. the base item is always some form of heavy armour, chosen randomly by the character's patron. * BattleAxe houserule: As a heavy armour, chaos armour gives a DR 2 bonus. * Each suit of chaos armour is made for a single individual. * The intended wearer is always treated as having heavy armour proficiency when wearing the chaos armour. This does not grant him heavy armour proficiency with any other heavy armour, just his specific suit of chaos armour. * Chaos armour does not affect spell casting. * Chaos armour automatically adapts itself to accomodate any mutations or rewards received by the wearer, unlike mundane armour, which must be discarded or re-forged. * Chaos armour has a magic plus of 0 at first level, plus one for each four character levels (round down). A 20th level character would have a +5 magic bonus with his armour. Chaos armour is normally received as a feat from the rewards of chaos group. Enhancement feats (rewards of chaos): All these feats require chaos armour as a pre-requisite. * Fused with Body: the armour canot be removed. The wearer's constitution score rises by 2 points. * Spikes: The chaos armour has spikes, which may be used as a weapon, as for mundane spiked armours. The character receives proficiency with using spiked armour as a weapon if he does not already have it. * Locked gauntlets: The chaos armour has locked gauntlets, which may be used exactly like the mundane enhancement for armour. * Free Movement: the armour never imposes a skill check penalty or movement penalty on the intended wearer. ---- For templars of the chaos powers, I am working on the idea that the various rewards are chosen as feats from a specific ''rewards of chaos'' pool. The exact choice of reward is to some extent restricted and guided by the patron power. For example, champions (templars) of Khorne must choose chaos armour as their first feat. A champion of Slaanesh may go through his entire career without ever choosing chaos armour as one of his feats, although this will obviously reduce his chances of survival. This (not forcing chaos champions to have chaos armour) is in line with WFB 3E rules, and it also allows for the idea of a champion of chaos to blend in with normal society, at least until his mutations become too obvious.
Mist-Bound 06-22-07, 02:36 PM	It works quite well, and so does Chaos Rewards as Feats (though how you're going to do Mutations escapes me). Given that even currently, Chaos Armour is a "magic item" for Beastmen, I think it works well. I'm not entirely sure whether Khorne should have to take Chaos Armour... but then again, there aren't really chaos cults of Khorne, so it is fitting...
Rhialto 06-23-07, 03:59 AM	Looking over that description of chaos armour, I just realised how incredibly overpowered it is compared to other feats. Maybe back to the drawing board? It is a fair rendition of teh item from the 3rd ed rules though.
Mist-Bound 06-23-07, 04:07 AM	Maybe make it an optional class feature of the Chaos Templar class? If you have a level in Templar with one of the Chaos Gods as your patron, you have the option of acquiring a suit of Chaos Armour instead of a Reward at any level?
Rhialto 06-23-07, 04:19 AM	I just revised the post detailing teh chaos armour. I think it's more balanced now. teh initial armour is essentially a free suit of armour with no magic plusses which doesn't affect spellcasting. Most of the other benefits are either removed outright or shifted to add-on feats. The Con bonus for fused with body was way out of line with other feats though, so thats now just a mere +2.
Mist-Bound 06-25-07, 01:58 PM	It looks quite fitting now. Hmm... the thing that I worry about now is how do we handle mutations- some of them (levitation and mechanical body for example) are too powerful to be "just" mutations, and not all mutations are actually drawbacks- an extra arm that actually works may cause social problems, but it's still an advantage, right? This is partially why I suggest we use the Outsider Rating rule from Ravenloft; this way, all visible mutations can clearly affect a character's ability to interact with society without impairing abilities that depend upon Charisma (unless the mutation actually does cause Charisma loss). On that topic, do you want me to try and come up with some "statted" mutations? As you're doing the Chaos Templar and some basic Rewards feats, the least I can do is try and make some mutations. ::EDIT:: I thought I'd put my money where my mouth was and actually try and make some mutations. Let me know what you think of them. Crossbreed- Voice of Harpy Visual? No Effect: the Crossbreed mutations function by physically crossing one aspect of a mutant with an accordant aspect from another creature. In the case of the Voice of a Harpy mutation, the mutant is no longer capable of speaking. However, they are capable of singing (DM's decision whether or not they can use this to communicate in meaningful manner or to cast spells with verbal components), and in fact become perternaturally proficient in doing so, with voices of unearthly sweetness and clarity. The mutant gains a +15 Profane bonus to all Perform (Song) checks. In addition, once per month per character level/HD, the mutant may produce a hypnotic, mesmeric melody. All within listening range must make a Will save (DC equal to the result of the mutant's Perform check) or be paralysed for the duration of the song, utterly oblivious to the world around them. Mechanoid- Head Visual- Yes; +6 OR Effect: the character's head (DM's adjuctation what happens when the mutant already has several heads) warps and twists into a strange, robotic appendage. This mechanical head's advanced sensory equipment grants a +2 Profane bonus to Spot and Listen checks, while it's complex processing unit grants +2 Intelligence. Furthermore, the mutant's mindset becomes less emotional and more focused on logic and reason- a distortion of the normal mental processes that grants it a +1 Profane bonus to Will saves. Note: a mutant with all the Mechanoid mutations has their type change to Living Construct (see Eberron). Extra Arm- Functional Visual? Yes; +3 OR Effect: the character grows another, fully functional arm somewhere on their body. This means that ordinary armour will need to be customised or discarded. A functional extra arm makes the mutant eligible to take the "multi-attack" feat, and until they do so their extra appendage(s) counts as being their "off-hand". Unless the DM rules that the extra limb sprouts in a position that makes it possible to do so, an extra arm cannot be used to wield a two-handed weapon. Brightly Coloured Visual? Yes; +4 OR Effec: the mutant's natural colour scheme is warped and distorted, rendering them garish and unnatural. Other than the exact details about precisely what bodyparts are coloured and what the colours are, this mutation has no effect other than to mark the character as a mutant. Mechanoid- Torso Visual? Yes; +2 OR Effect: the character's body (but not their appendages) is replaced with a mechanical fascimile. The lack of anything resembling human organs grants a +2 bonus to Constitution. In addition, Sneak Attacks, Death Attacks and similar attack methods have a 50% chance of not affecting the mutant at all. Note: a mutant with all the Mechanoid mutations has their type change to Living Construct (see Eberron). Extra Eye Visual? Yes; +1 OR Effect: each extra eye the mutant has grants a +1 Circumstance bonus to Spot checks and Reflex saves. At the DM's discretion, eyes in certain positions (the back of the head, for example) may grant other effects so long as they are not obscured in anyway. A mutant with extra eyes also receives a +1 bonus per 3 extra eyes to checks/saves made to resist being blinded. Sight of Sound Visual? Maybe Effect: the mutant's sense of vision is twisted and distorted in such a way that they lose the capacity to utilise the visual spectrum. Instead, they now have the power to literally visualise the audial spectrum, essentially using a more advanced form of echolocation to perceive the world. The mutant becomes technically blind, in that they cannot distinguish colours, read or perform similar actions, but their ability to perceive sounds means that they can otherwise function normally. The mutant loses the Spot and Listen skill, instead retaining the highest score as a single "Perception" skill, which is used in any circumstance where the mutant needs to distinguish a particular facet of the world around them. The mutant cannot be deafened (as they can essentially "read" sound even if they cannot hear it) but can be blinded- if they are both blinded and deafened then they suffer the normal effects of both. A mutant with Sight of Sound that enters an area of Silence is blinded. Blood Substitution Visual? Maybe The mutant's blood is magically transmuted into some new substance. When the mutant takes damage from a slashing or piercing weapon their blood sprays forth, affecting the one who dealt the initial damage (and their weapon) as well as splashing all within a 1-foot radius per 2 hitpoints of damage suffered. Most commonly, this mutation inflicts one type of energy damage (Acid, Fire, Cold or Electricity only), causing 1D6+Con bonus damage. However, a DM may rule that certain other types of blood substitute may have different effects. For example, a mutant with Insect Swarm blood may unleash a Wasp Swarm when injured, while one with Protoplasm blood might have Fast Healing 1. Armoured Hide Visual? Yes; +1 OR per AC point Effect: the mutant's hide alters in some way to provide natural defence; this may take the form of scales, thick matted fur, leathery hide, bone nodules, scabs, anything the DM can imagine. The mutant's Natural Armour Class is increased by +D3+1 (+2 for simplicity), with each subsequent acquisition granting a further +1 AC.
Rhialto 06-27-07, 04:04 PM	I'm about halfway through going through the list of mutations fromk realms of chaos. It seems that they can be broadly split into major and minor mutations. For minor mutations, I'd say give an 11+ roll to get one at each level, and the character can use the smaller of his Wis and Cha bonuses as a modifier, either to increase of decrease teh chance (his choice). For major mutations, Id say they should only exist as a reward for a quest or some other significant event within the campaign.
Mist-Bound 06-27-07, 05:35 PM	That has its possibilities... the question now is how do we handle Ascension and Damnation? Keep Realms of Chaos's version (you make a certain roll, you either become a daemon or you become a chaos spawn), or maybe twist my idea (make a save at each level of Templar, DC based on mutations, to avoid becoming a Chaos Spawn, successfully reaching 20th level turns you into a Daemon Prince)? I think my idea works better for the D20 system personally. Also, you could turn "Major Mutations" (which I'm guessing would be stuff like Mechanoid and Levitation) into Undivided Chaos Rewards, representing that only the most favoured of the Dark Gods would have such mutations. By the way, could you list which mutations from Realms of Chaos would go into into which category (Major or Minor)?
Rhialto 06-27-07, 06:47 PM	Ascension/damnation should also be placed as campaign rewards rather than something a character picks. A chaos spawn isn't really a playable character - it's little more than a wild animal. And a daemon prince is just plain unbalanced as a playable character. If a chaos templar deeply offends his patron through role-playing actions, the chaos power presses the smite button and has another chaos spawn. Anything else screams "arbitrary GM". Yes, the chaos powers are arbitrary, but killing a character because he is levelling up is a spectacularly good way to lose a player. For ascension, the basic rules should be broadly similar to those for ascending to the ranks of godhood from the basic d20 rules. Making major mutations into undivided rewards has some potential. You are more or less correct regarding my view on the division. Book of Vile Darkness has plenty of good source material for chaos rewards too, btw.
Mist-Bound 06-27-07, 07:08 PM	Technically, a Daemon Prince/Exalted Daemon is just a high-level Chaos Templar with their type changed from (Augmented) Humanoid to Native Outsider, but either way it probably is best reserved as a campaign ender kind of thing. So, "Damnation" (being turned into a Chaos Spawn) is simply a roleplaying-based punishment, like with Paladins in core D&D Falling from grace if they commit acts against their code? Works well for me... in fact, seems about perfect. Of course, we'll probably need to actually devise a code for the Dark Gods so that players can handle it. Could you perhaps make a list detailing what mutations, in your opinion, are Minor and what mutations are Major?
Rhialto 06-28-07, 04:47 AM	Acid Excretion Beweaponed Extremities (drop this one; no hands = railroad campaign) Blood Substitution Breathes Fire Burning Body Chaos Lord Chaos Spawn (drop this one) Chaos Were Crossbreed (drop this one) Crystalline Body Dimensional Instability (drop this one maybe) Duplication Invisibility (unless greatly toned down) Iron Hard Skin (unless toned down greatly) Levitation (unless toned down greatly) Magic Immune Magic Resistant Magician Mechanoid Mercreature (not major as such, but it railroads the campaign) Metal Body Mindless Multiplication Plague Bearer Pseudo-Daemonhood Quadruped/Biped (railroads the campaign too much) Rapid Regeneration Siamese Twins Spits Acid Technology Telekinesis Teleport Temporal Instability Uncontrollable Flatulence Vampire Warp Frenzy Wings (redirects the campaign too much) Additional Eye Agility Albino Alcoholism Atrophy (single limb only) Beaked Bestial Face Big Ears Bird's Feet Black Skin Blood Rage Brightly Patterned Skin Bulging Eyes Cloud of Flies (this one screams "Nurgle") Cloven Hooves Cowardice Crest Crown of Flesh Elastic Limbs Enormously Fat Enormous Noise Evil Eye Extra Joints Extremely Thin Eyestalks Fangs Fast Fear of Blood Feathered Hide Featureless Face Flaming Skull Face Furry GM's Choice (drop this one) Growth Headless Hideous Appearance Hopper Horns Horrible Stench Huge Head Hunchback Hypnotic Gaze Illusion of Normality Irrational fear Irrational Hatred Limb Loss (cf Atrophy) Limb Transference (maybe drop this one) Long Legs Long Neck Long Nose Long Spines Mace Tail Mane of Hair Manic Fighter Manikin Massive Intellect Moronic Multiple Arms Multiple Heads One Eye Overgrown Body Part Pin Head (cf Atrophy (head)) Pointed Head Poisonous Bite Powerful Legs Prehensile Tail Puny Razor Sharp Claws Rearranged Face Regeneration Resilient Rotting Flesh Scaly Skin Scorpion Tail Short Legs Shrink Silly Voice Silly Walk Skull Face Snake Tail Strong Suckers Tail Tentacles Transparent Skin Uncanny Resemblance Vividly Coloured Skin Walking Head Warty Skin Weapon Master Zoological Mutation (drop this one; too much variation to define rules) Invent Your Own (drop this one) It's worth noting that a few of the mutation are little more than "this guy is unusually good/bad at (character profile stat)", with a coresponding stat adjustment. These can be replaced wholesale with equivalent mutations for the d20 stat profile.
Mist-Bound 06-28-07, 05:47 PM	I don't remember what Explosive Flatulence does... why would that be a Major mutation? By the way, that mutation also reeks of Nurgle. Also, what do you mean by Wings would redirect the campaign? And are you sure that Weapon Master would be a Minor mutation? I don't remember what it does, but it might be more suitable as a Major mutation. Other than that, thanks for the listing. I presume you're working on the Templar- specifically, the Templar of the Chaos Gods?
Rhialto 06-28-07, 06:18 PM	Explosive Flatulence... the effect is one of a variety of grenade-like gas effects. if it was merely a bad smell, fair enough it'd be minor. But when it's a lethal weapon, that's a whole new attack method. I say wings would redirect the campaign because it gives the character a dramatically poweful new option for travel, and would effectively destroy any campaign in which significant travel is a major hurdle in completing a quest. I listed Weapon Master as minor because the effect as originally described is pretty small.
Mist-Bound 06-28-07, 07:06 PM	Ah, I see. And for Wings... well, there is ways of countering the advantage of flight; just because Chaos Armour provides no encumbrance, doesn't mean the other stuff they're carrying does the same. Another is to have a storm blow up; the Old World does have its share of violent weather, and I'm pretty sure there are rules for how strong winds etc impair flight. But any way, given that Wings are definately a sign of favour (if I recall right, they're actually listed as a Chaos Reward of Tzeentch in the Lost & the Damned book), Major Mutation status suits them fine. Something I just wondered; the Chaos-Were mutation, in Realms of Darkness, basically gave the mutant Frenzy and caused them to "switch" to a specific set of mutations when they became frenzied. Now, as there are officially werecreatures in the Warhammer universe (confirmed by the Old World Bestiary for the 2nd ed WHFRPG), perhaps we should "tweak" the Chaos-Were mutation so that the mutant basically becomes a Lycanthrope? From what I remember reading in the Old World Bestiary, all Werebeasts in Warhammer are based on predatory creatures- werewolves are most common, but other forms (especially for chaos-created lycanthropes) are possible. I hate the fact you're the one doing all the work... if you could suggest something for me to do, I'd be glad to do it. Oh, and just to mention it, there's a D20 setting book by Mongoose Publishing called "Infernum: Book of the Damned"; it's got quite a selection of mutations... albeit as "chains" of interlinked mutations, but still... You know, if you ever want to maybe talk on this some more, I have a MSN profile. I can give you the address if you'd like.
Rhialto 06-30-07, 10:34 AM	I was mildly ****** off today to discover that someone had hacked my website, deleted the contents, and left a redirector to some advertising crap. The wiki where I had kept a lot of my notes is lost :(
Mist-Bound 07-04-07, 04:34 PM	Ah, sh't. Is there any way to bring it back, or did you keep any other copies spare? I've been trying to think of a way to contribute something... would you like me to try my hand at a "Core Faiths" style detailing of the Gods of Warhammer?
Rhialto 07-04-07, 04:45 PM	My providor restored it from a backup :) Seems I don't pay that hosting fee for nothing after all. One thing that would really help is going through the SRD spell list, and making suitable spell lists for each deity's casters.
Mist-Bound 07-04-07, 04:48 PM	Okay, I'll work on doing that, if you can provide a link to the SRD page please. I'll also try and figure out which Domains each god has- as soon as I find that White Dwarf with the Religions of the Old World article in it (I've seen it at the US/UK Games Workshop website, but it didn't mention which issue it's in). ::EDIT:: Actually, I've found the SRD, so don't bother. Also, here's a link to the page, just in case you want to take a look at it; http://uk.games-workshop.com/warhammer/religion/1/ Just remind me; are we going to give Warhammer deities "domains", like in core D&D, or are we just going to give each deity a list of specific spells that their clerics can cast, with a note that clerics cannot learn any spells not on the list? Also, can you give me the link to the wiki? I tried the link in the old PM you gave me, but I got a message about Internal Server Error.
Rhialto 07-07-07, 06:20 PM	Reading over some of teh splatbooks, I've decided that the archivst (from heroes of horror) is probably the best match for our campaign world's priests. Adapting the bardic song ability had the problem that the feats didn't really mesh with such a radical change. Changes that need to be made to the archivist: - Spell system is overhauled as per earlier posts on the magic system. - there aren't any aberrations. However, Knowledge (dungeoneering) skill is still useful for dark knowledge checks against ratmen. - Characters can choose 2 deity-appropriate domains, as per standard clerics. They do not gain the spells from these domains - only the granted powers. It'd still be nice to have a simple system for determing which spells go to which deity. I had originally planned on adapting the 2nd edition clerical spheres system, but closer examination reveals that system is seriously broken. I'd rather have a systematic approach than examining each spell individually for each deity, I just can't find such a sytem yet.
Mist-Bound 07-07-07, 06:27 PM	Hmm... one way might be to look at core aspects of their theology and then deduce appropriate spells from that. For example, Ranald is the God of Theft and Deception, and prohibits his followers from using violence except as a last resort- suitable magics that suggest themselves include spells designed to augment thieving/stealth (Invisibility, Spiderclimb, Cat's Grace) and social interaction (Charm, Friends, Fox's Insight, Eagle's Splendor).
Rhialto 07-07-07, 06:44 PM	I just read the GW article. To that list of deities, I'd add Handrich, the god of trade, merchants, and wealth. He was written up in an old (very old) issue of WD, and his worship centres primarily around Marienburg. he isn't really a core Empire deity though.Also, that article doesn't mention the Kislev deities (who aren't core Empire either). Obviously, the article doesn't even touch non-human deities. I see no particular reason to change the priest/templar dichotomy we previously decided on. One issue is that there is now no core class with the ability to turn undead. That fits in with the mythos background, but do you think it is unbalancing? Noble class still needs to be decided on. The earlier version was, frankly, a bit crap.
Mist-Bound 07-07-07, 07:06 PM	Not entirely. It might be somewhat if the DM wants to play an Undead-heavy campaign, in which case I'd suggest perhaps making Turn Undead a class feature/feat that can be acquired by Death Wizards and Templars/Priests of Morr, all of whom are sworn to the destruction of the undead and to Necromancers. For less moral players, there's also the possibility of giving the Reign Undead skill to Necromancers as a Class Skill.
Rhialto 07-08-07, 02:51 AM	Thinking about it more, it might be better to make "turn undead" (or something functionally similar) into a new spell for this campaign world. That works just as well I think.
Mist-Bound 07-08-07, 02:54 AM	Yeah, that works alright... but how would you stat it up?
Rhialto 07-08-07, 03:13 AM	first level spell for priests of Morr (maybe higher for other casters), effects broadly similar to the standard turn undead ability. Alternately, create a spell to induce instability in the undead (essentially using a mechanic from our favourite campaign world).
Mist-Bound 07-17-07, 07:14 PM	Hmm... I think the "Induce Instability" might be a good idea. Had any luck with it?
Rhialto 07-20-07, 01:57 PM	Just a note to say that RL is stalling things again.
Mist-Bound 07-28-07, 08:02 PM	Just found something that might help you with Templars and Priests; there's a downloadable excerpt of Tome of Salvation (the new sourcebook detailing the gods of the Warhammer world- or at least those of the Empire and its allies/enemies) and it lists these as Foreign Gods. I don't know if these are the most powerful cults from their homelands or just the ones that have worshippers in the Empire, but either way I thought it might help. Bretonnia The Lady of the Lake Portfolio: Bretonnia, Chivalry, Nobility Estalia O Prospero Portfolio: Merchants Kislev Dazh Portfolio: Fire, The Sun, Guests Tor Portfolio: Storms, Battle Ursun Portfolio: Bears Norsca Mermedus Portfolio: The Sea of Claws Ursash Portfolio: Bear Hunting Tilea Lucan & Luccina Portfolio: the cities that bear their names? Mercopio Portfolio: Merchants Hope these are of some help to you. So, how long before you can return to the project anyway?
nineshadoweyes 01-16-08, 05:57 PM	Is this thread totally dead? Did the project move elsewhere?