Post/Author/DateTime	Post
EpicEvokerElf 07-10-07, 03:28 PM	Anything at all, where to find it, expansions, sourcebooks, sites, etc. Thanks in advance.
WizO_Autumn 07-10-07, 04:08 PM	We actually have a board in which this can be discussed! The d20 Thinktanks are just for these other settings. Moved to d20 Fantasy!
JohnJohn 07-10-07, 05:29 PM	There was something put out under the 3.0 rules. The wheel of time role playing game. It was followed by something called "prophecies of the dragon" which had some sample adventures in it for levels from 1-6 that kind of intersected with events coming out of the book series though you never met any of the books characters. That was all that was put out unless we are talking about a different version or what have you. supposebly there was some stuff (extras) put up at www.wizards.com/wheeloftime but I haven't been there in ages. As to the RPG it was very interesting but it was only current up through the first... 4 or 5 books? It was also 3.0 but shouldn't be hard to bring it under 3.5 rules. Thats all I remember about it... though now I am remembering I intended to run it at some point... hmm maybe some world hopping is in my players future:) Sorry I can't be of more help :(
i_am_some_guy 07-10-07, 05:55 PM	look on-line for it. Like Amazon (http://www.amazon.com/Wheel-Time-Roleplaying-Game-Fantasy/dp/0786919965/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/105-3105296-8389267?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1184104456&sr=8-1)....
Zinuk 07-11-07, 04:26 AM	The Call of the Horn FAQ (http://www.callofthehorn.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2#post3) covers extensively that kind of information. If you have more questions (or if you spot a broken link to a resource you want), just ask over at Call of the Horn (http://www.callofthehorn.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=3).
spyone 07-13-07, 09:40 AM	Bought a copy on recommendation, and I agree with those who told me the magic system is worth a look even if you aren't a fan of the novels. It wasn't what I was looking for, but it was still an intriguing idea.
Eater_Of_Souls 07-24-07, 03:25 AM	As I'm running the campaign in the setting atm. I can shed some light on the subject. For rules etc. you only need the basic book as everything including the important bits in DM and players guide are included, so there is no need to use "basic D&D" DM or players guide. Prophesies of the dragon is must buy not only because it's a rather large campaign but because it also describes places and events that weren't described in the books. As for converting wheel of time to 3.5, What for since system works just fine as 3.0 and most "fan based" conversions complitely ignore the actual campaign world ? As for the lenght of the campaign, it's covers the events from Falme to Dumai Wells which is about a year and a half in game time and books from end of book 2 to end of book 6. Campaing has a lot of travelling though which imo is the biggest flaw in it as travelling from place to place takes weeks and weeks where nothing happens (unless you feel like mapping 6 weeks worth of traveling).
Cyber-Dave 07-30-07, 02:26 PM	I am actually planning to make a WoT Saga edition conversion (converting the game to Star Wars Saga edition rules).
Eater_Of_Souls 07-31-07, 04:00 AM	I am actually planning to make a WoT Saga edition conversion (converting the game to Star Wars Saga edition rules). Not really needed imo as WoT is by definition a low magic world so "monster bash" as an option is allready somewhat limited. Only thing I would include is wound/vitality, I wouldn't include level = skill -system for example since WoT allready gives more skill points then vanilla D&D.
Cyber-Dave 07-31-07, 08:04 AM	Not really needed imo as WoT is by definition a low magic world so "monster bash" as an option is allready somewhat limited. Only thing I would include is wound/vitality, I wouldn't include level = skill -system for example since WoT allready gives more skill points then vanilla D&D. I could not disagree with you more. Its only low magic in certain era's. Other era's are as "high" magic as Eberron. I don't know what you mean by "more" skill points, as its pretty much 4 skill points per class across the board (except for 2 classes, one which gives 8 skill points, and one which gives 6 skill points) which is essentially "vanilla D&D". The inherent problems of the d20 system are still just as much of a problem in WoT as they are in D&D (and every other d20 game), and yet they are pretty much all fixed in Saga. And to top that off, Saga fits SO well as WoT that pretty much all you need to do to make a conversion is create one new class, and modify the magic system to fit with Saga rules. Nothing is "really needed" I suppose. But to me, its the different between a passably ok game, and a really good really fun game. I'd rather play the really good really fun game.
EpicEvokerElf 07-31-07, 01:14 PM	A few things. First off, what's Saga? Second, that CotH site rocks, thank you. And third, conversion to 3.5 IS necessary, because 3.0 is needlessly complex in the skill and weapon areas, which are central to the game. (I mean, weapon sizes? Intuit Direction? Gimme a break.) I also found a new Diplomacy skill on the OotS website that fits as well. BTW, I got the book in practically new condition off Amazon for $30. New it sold for $40, today the average is $50. That's USED.
Eater_Of_Souls 07-31-07, 03:18 PM	Well I suggest you read the book then ;P Only era fitting of "high magic era" was about 3000 years ago since then use of the one power has been pretty much limited from every day life. But if you want to make a campaign for the "war of shadow" then go for it :) However I keep my campaign as pretty strictly tied to what exists in the novels thus making my campaign a very low magic even if there might be an occasional channeler now and then. To keep Aes Sedai as rare as in the books I treat any "full Aes Sedai" as having taken a level in prestige class (thus limiting them to level 6th and higher) but what is fine and dandy for my group might not fit in with your groups tastes. As for the 3.0 edition I started my (non AD&D) D&D with that edition so I'm fine using both 3.0 and 3.5. Intuit direction also isn't that much needed either since you can treat it as it doesn't exist at all if you want (or if you have a woodsman in the group), if you want your player to use wilderness lore instead then by all means let them do so but there still isn't a need for something as large as a coversion. There are house rules for changing things you don't like. I've heard a lot of good things about saga (rule system for starwars d20), there was also a some fan made "power point system" for channeling but I found it was simply too complicated to be of any use without extensive testing and fitting.
Cyber-Dave 07-31-07, 11:05 PM	As I was saying, the Star Wars system is the BEST d20 system by far, and after playing it, there is no way I would ever go back to 3.0 or 3.5. Thus, WoT would require a conversion to Saga for me to play it. And seeing as the Wheel of time turns, and the ages come and go (and repeat themselves), that means that there have been multiple "high magic" eras, though it is true taht the only one described in the book was 3000 years before the books setting.
EpicEvokerElf 08-02-07, 01:42 PM	As I was saying, the Star Wars system is the BEST d20 system by far, and after playing it, there is no way I would ever go back to 3.0 or 3.5. Thus, WoT would require a conversion to Saga for me to play it. And seeing as the Wheel of time turns, and the ages come and go (and repeat themselves), that means that there have been multiple "high magic" eras, though it is true taht the only one described in the book was 3000 years before the books setting. Yes, well, as I was ASKING, what the heck is SAGA?
i_am_some_guy 08-02-07, 02:32 PM	Yes, well, as I was ASKING, what the heck is SAGA? You can look at it here... (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=starwars/article/rpgsagaed)
kunadam 08-21-07, 07:27 AM	While WoC RPG is for 3.0 it had a lot of interesting ideas in it. AC increasing with level and the magic system are great! And an update is necessary because of the happening in the latest 6 books (had to go to dragonmount to check how RJ faring)
Ranger REG 08-22-07, 02:34 AM	While WoC RPG is for 3.0 it had a lot of interesting ideas in it. AC increasing with level It's called Class Defense Bonus now. Present in all forms of Star Wars d20 RPG and d20 Modern.
Cyber-Dave 08-23-07, 12:30 AM	Its the feel of the magic system that I am really trying to keep with my conversion. I'll be honest, Star Wars Saga already does pretty much all the rest for me (as Ranger pointed out).
Rania 08-23-07, 01:37 PM	I found the book on the internet; saw it on Limewire when I was browsing and thought it looked interesting. I'd give you the file, except it's about 100mb and I don't know how to.
spyone 08-24-07, 02:40 AM	I found the book on the internet; saw it on Limewire when I was browsing and thought it looked interesting. I'd give you the file, except it's about 100mb and I don't know how to. And that would be illegal. Just saying, we're not supposed to talk about illegal stuff on these boards, rather specificly sharing copies of copyrighted material. Especially when the copyright belongs to WotC. :)
JosephKell 08-29-07, 05:08 PM	*snip*I am going to agree with Cyber-Dave. Aside from the fact that SW Saga is the easiest to run d20 system I've read (I haven't checked True20 or Spycraft), WoT is high fantasy (much like Star Wars) and moderate magic (low magic item). Star Wars is very much a fantasy story that just happens to take place on many worlds and the space in between. It is part of why the original trilogy was so successful, instead of preaching the same tired "science fiction" it was just "Space Fiction" (there was pretty much no science explained in any of the movies or books in the Expanded Star Wars Universe). And Wheel of Time benefits greatly from everyone being able to make well rounded characters. Every major character was able to socialize to some degree in the novels. As I have said many times in many places, making skills automatically dynamic makes combat an option instead of the only option. And making skills be opposed by a dynamic stat (Defense or an opposed skill roll) makes skills an option instead of the only option (to understand this see Half-Elf Bards and their ability to fast talk their way out of ANY situation and make all encounters against communicable enemies an automatic success despite a -20 penalty). For a WoT Saga port, I would probably reduce the number of weaves, make Affinities into Talent Tables and make Weaves just learned separately. I would need a lot of time to figure out how to do it, but keeping the WoT "a channeler can only heal a given person once per day" is a good idea. Especially since non-persistent steps on the condition track disappear at 1 per round of no action (basically a person uses their standard, move, and swift action to spend 3 swift actions recovering each round of no action). Over channeling can easily be fixed so that a successful overchannel is -1 step on the condition track, but a botched over channel is a persistent -1 step and a -1 step on the condition track. In WoT d20 as written, it was easy to twink a channeler that COULDN'T fail an Overchannel check and could therefore channel 2nd level weaves and less an infinite times per day (after running of slots). But yeah, Cyber-Dave, I would appreciate a chance to look at what you come up with.
captainvegas 08-31-07, 10:17 AM	Another option that looked like it would fit pretty well is True20/Blue Rose. The magic system in Blue Rose is pretty close to WoT as it stands and wouldn't take much tweaking to fit.
Tathel 08-31-07, 11:52 AM	I hate to mention something not related to d20 here *smacks self* But i always thought the magic system in Mage: the awakening (by white wolf) Was a good option to be adapted to how Channeling works. Now that said i think using that magic system would not balance out very well at all and would only be useful in a game with all casters (although you could use the way the system works as a template and design your own magic system that would be more balanced off of it) I don't think it would be too hard to just take the casting system and incorporate it into d20... Paradox in Mage could be altered to only cause madness in the caster and only effect males.
Prelate 09-12-07, 01:57 PM	Over channeling can easily be fixed so that a successful overchannel is -1 step on the condition track, but a botched over channel is a persistent -1 step and a -1 step on the condition track. In WoT d20 as written, it was easy to twink a channeler that COULDN'T fail an Overchannel check and could therefore channel 2nd level weaves and less an infinite times per day (after running of slots). I recently started playing a WoT Char (Initiate/Aes Sedai) in a AD&D campaign. in an effort to create some house rules that don't leave me over powered, and let other players feel more comfortable about having a potentially gamebreaker in the group, I'm working with my DM to come up with some house rules on over channeling. would anyone here like to offer some constructive advice?
Prelate 09-18-07, 01:21 PM	For those who were fans, the author of the Wheel of Time series, Robert Jordan, passed away this past weekend. May the Light Illumine and shelter you, Robert Jordan. The last embrace of the mother welcome you home.
Enderlaand 09-18-07, 02:57 PM	I am very saddened by the loss of Robert Jordan. He was a great storyteller. The reason I sought this thread, though, was to ask, where can I find an errata for the Wheel of Time RPG? I have WoTRPG and Prophesies of the Dragon, as well as the Web Enhancement, but there are some discrepancies in the book that I thought warrant an errata. For example, under the Heal skill it says to consult a chart when rolling for the use of a healing balm, but there's no chart.
Prelate 09-19-07, 12:40 PM	I found one erratta a few years ago, and saved it. but there was no support from WOTC on this one, so I can only suggest you decide on a house rule and stick with that.
Zinuk 09-19-07, 01:31 PM	Although there is no "official" errata, some fans asked the game designer some clarifications, and here's his answer on the missing heal skill table. pg. 79, following the description for the Heal skill, should be this table: Result Additional Damage Converted 0-9 none 10-14 1 hp 15-20 2 hp 20-24 3 hp 25+ 4 hp If you want the complete errata, you can download it here (http://mapage.noos.fr/zinuk/downloads/errata.zip).
Enderlaand 09-20-07, 09:51 AM	Wow, that was a lot less than I was doing for the skill check. I was doing roll - 15 min 0 is converted. Thanks for the errata file. My game has turned out to be pretty deadly, so I may keep doing it my way.
Prelate 09-21-07, 09:52 AM	thanks for that zip!
Eater_Of_Souls 09-21-07, 12:59 PM	Paradox in Mage could be altered to only cause madness in the caster and only effect males. Or it could mean just just slipped with control a bit when trying to weave something you cannot reliably control such thing happen when you get injured or try "unravel" the weaves. My wish is that when the last book for WoT is published someone would convert the book for the 4th editon and fill in the blanks about various nations.
JosephKell 10-18-07, 01:11 AM	Or it could mean just just slipped with control a bit when trying to weave something you cannot reliably control such thing happen when you get injured or try "unravel" the weaves. My wish is that when the last book for WoT is published someone would convert the book for the 4th editon and fill in the blanks about various nations.I guess someone missed the announcement that Robert Jordan died a few weeks ago (before your post).
Enderlaand 10-19-07, 02:14 PM	Robert Jordan's death is not going to in any way prevent the book's release. It likely won't even slow it down. They had it slated for delivery in 2008 and release in 2009. That's still plenty of time for his wife to work with someone and have the book released. It wouldn't upset him to have this happen, since he spent his last few days dictating events of the storyline to her.
ksbsnowowl 02-11-08, 10:27 AM	Just posting concerning the finishing of Book 12 "A Memory of Light" (working title). James Rigney's (Jordan's real name) wife chose fatasy author Brandon Sanderson to finish the 12th book. It is slated for release in Fall of 2009. You can learn about Brandon at his website: www.brandonsanderson.com
ksbsnowowl 02-11-08, 12:27 PM	I'm currently running an Eberron game, but the prospect has opened for my group to next play Wheel of Time when our Eberron game ends. Since none of my players has read the series (one of them began reading one of the books 10 years ago, but doesn't remember which one, and another player once upon a time began reading book 6, but didn't finish it [why he started in the middle, I have no idea]), I had the idea of perhaps making them the main characters. It would be heavily dependent upon their character ideas, and the series would only be a loose framework of a campaign, but I think it would be fun. One other idea I thought to implement, either for this game, or a future D&D game, was to have everyone submit 2 or 3 character ideas, and although they might have a "main character," they secondary characters would be available, so that they don't have to alter what their character would really do, just to maintain this metagamed "party" together. To illustrate this idea using the WoT characters we know and love, imagine that you have 4 players, each one playing Rand, Mat, Perrin, and Egwene as their "main characters." Well, each one would have a second character, such as Elayne, Avhienda, Gaul, or Loial, so that when Perrin runs off to the Two Rivers to save it from Faine, Rand, Mat, and Egwene's players would then play Loial, Gaul, and Chiad for the few sessions we focused on "Perrin's story." Then, after a few weeks playing that side of the story, we'd shift, and Rand, Mat, and Egwene would play in the Aiel Waste, and Perrin's player would play Avhienda. Obviously, it won't work exactly like the novels, but that's why it is merely a framework. It would also require mature players, possibly requiring you to play an opposite-sex character. Anyway, enough rambling of such matters, and on the real reason for this post. I've been rereading the series recently (just started book 5), and I've been taking some notes on things that are "missing" from the RPG. Here are some notes on things I might add, and I'd like some constructive criticism, if you will. Channeling System On the whole, I rather like the channeling system presented in the RPG. It doesn't exactly reflect how it works in the books, but it is close enough for me. Aside from a few additional weaves to be added, the only major change I would make is thus: Every time you use the last slot of a given level (such as a 6th level Initiate using the second of her two 3rd level weaves), you must make a Fort save of DC 10 + weave level exhausted (DC 13 for the above Initiate example) or become Fatigued. If already Fatigued, you become Exhausted. This Fortitude save also applies when overchanneling without any slots remaining. For example, if you overchannel to produce a 2nd level weave after already expending all your weave slots for the day, you must make a DC 12 Fort save each time you do so, becoming Fatigued (or Exhausted) if you fail. Fatigue itself isn't that bad. An hour of rest gets rid of it, and I feel that reflects well the hour or so of rest Moiraine required when the group took refuge in Shadar Logoth in EotW. Sword Forms With the advent of the Tome of Battle, I feel that maneuvers are the perfect way to reflect the sword forms of the books. However, the upper end of them is too powerful for the feel of Randland. Basically, the highest level maneuvers possible is 5th at levels 18+. Any healing or supernatural effect maneuvers are eliminated; only ones that are an expression of skill would be used. Lastly, the Combat Focus feat from the Player's Handbook II would be utilized to represent the "Void." Only a few of the supplementary Combat Focus feats would be allowed (none that provide fast healing or anything supernatural). Thus, swordforms would be implemented thusly: 1. Everyone has an Initiator Level equal to ¼ their character level (minimum 1), and they have no recovery mechanic. There is no limit to the number of times you may take the Martial Study feat. 2. Taking the Combat Focus feat makes your Initiator Level equal to 1/3 your character level, and grants you the Swordsage recovery mechanic while in Combat Focus. Combat Focus retains all its other aspects, except that it may be entered at will, once per encounter. You may have half of your known maneuvers readied at any one time. The readied maneuvers mechanic only comes into play while you have a recovery method. 3. Upon taking your first level in the Blademaster PrC, your Initiator Level is equal to ½ your character level. When in a Combat Focus, you gain the Warblade recovery mechanic, and you gain the Swordsage recovery mechanic at all times, even when not in a Combat Focus. Combat Focus is a prerequisite for the Blademaster PrC, in place of Whirlwind Attack. 4. The Blademaster PrC loses all special class features except Superior Weapon Focus and Improved Critical. At every level except the levels at which Superior Weapon Focus and Improved Critical are gained, the Blademaster gains one maneuver known. At each of the levels he gains Superior Weapon Focus and Improved Critical, he gains a new stance known. He also gains the benefit of the Adaptive Style feat at 1st level. As far as prerequisites are concerned, there are no "schools" of maneuvers. They are all of the same school. If a maneuver has a listed prereq, its prereq instead becomes "One maneuver of a level lower than this maneuver's level." For example, to get a 3rd level maneuver, you must have a 2nd level maneuver first, and in most cases, you must have a 1st level maneuver before you can get a 2nd level maneuver. Here is a tentative list of maneuvers that would be allowed: Appropriate maneuvers by level and discipline: 1. Iron Guard’s Glare (Devo), Sapphire Nightmare Blade (Diam), Stance of Clarity (Diam), Punishing Stance (Iron), Steel Wind (Iron), Steely Strike (Iron), Step of the Wind (Set), Island of Blades (Shadow), Stonefoot Stance (Stone), Blood in the Water (Tiger) 2. Flashing Sun (Desert), Foehammer? (Devo), Emerald Razor (Diam), Disarming Strike (Iron), Drain Vitality? (Shadow), Mountain Hammer? (Stone), Stone Vise? (Stone), Claw at the Moon (Tiger), Rabid Wolf Strike (Tiger) 3. Thicket of Blades (Devo), Insightful Strike (Diam), Pearl of Black Doubt (Diam), Absolute Steel Stance (Iron), Feigned Opening? (Set), Assassin’s Stance (Shadow), Roots of the Mountain? (Stone), Flesh Ripper? (Tiger), Soaring Raptor Strike? (Tiger) 4. Divine Surge? (Devo), Entangling Blade? (Devo), Bounding Assault (Diam), Ruby Nightmare Blade (Diam), Lightning Recovery ?(Iron), Mithril Tornado (Iron), Strike of the Broken Shield (Set), Bonesplitting Strike? (Stone), Overwhelming Mountain Strike (Stone), Death from Above (Tiger), White Raven Strike (White) 5. Disrupting Blow? (Diam), Rapid Counter? (Diam), Dancing Blade Form (Iron), Dazing Strike? (Iron), Shifting Defense (Set), Stalking Shadow (Set), Bloodletting Strike (Shadow), Dancing Mongoose (Tiger), Pouncing Charge (Tiger), Press the Advantage (White) Weave List There are several weaves from the books that were not included in the RPG, probably because they only showed up once or twice, or the weaves work differently than how they are described in the book. Here is a short list from the first 4 books, and one section of Knife of Dreams: Healing can work more than once per day (EotW – when they enter the Blight. Lan is healed multiple times.) A channeler cannot heal herself! - Suggest removing the once per day healing limit on Heal. Heal also inflicts 1d4 damage upon the target as it is cast. This damage is immediately healed in addition to the weave’s normal healing. It basically functions to illustrate that healing can kill someone who is too weak. - Create True Healing that has a once per day limit, but truly heals (not convert to subdual damage). It utilizes all 5 affinities, and is a (Lost) weave. Weave for a molten geyser that then forms into a wall of fire [earth, fire] (EotW) Blue Ajah weave making vermin move and bite at command (conjunction) Weave that ensnares and inflicts fire damage on those caught within (Moiraine on Aginore, EotW) Blocking open a Gateway (web enhancement) Moving walls of fire (Asmodean, while skimming, TSR) The Bond Warder weave can target channelers, and it can target individuals already bonded to someone else. Blossoms of Fire (KoD) Deathgates (KoD) Arrows of Fire (KoD) (Levels 8+?) - Suggest that the weave may be targeted 3 ways: 1. A 50 ft (?) line dealing 100 (or 10d10 ?) points of damage (Ref half) 2. A 50 ft (?) cone dealing 4d10 damage to all in the area (Ref half) 3. A 50 ft (?) half-circle radiating from the channeler dealing 2d10 damage (Ref half) Those notes on Arrows of Fire are just my attempts to figure out how to implement it. Arrows of Fire may well be the Cutting Lines of Fire weave from the RPG (that weave was included from Sammael's use of it in Crown of Swords - I've not reread the description to see if it is the same.) The Arrows of Fire weave from Knife of Dreams produces 100 lines of red, laser-like fire (10 from each finger), and Rand uses it to spread an area of destruction against hoards of trollocs, but he also focuses all of them on a single Myrddraal, killing it instantly. Feats Many of the basic combat feats from Complete Warrior and the like are fine additions. Players would just need to run them by me first. Improved Buckler Defense: this feat basically would allow the Aiel Buckler to stack with their class defense bonus, meaning the buckler actually has a purpose other than to act as a drum... Ideas from this thread There were two ideas from this thread that I liked: Vitality and Wounds points: I've used these as a player in a D&D game, and I think it would work well in WoT. I'm not sure how it would affect my above comments on the Healing weave, though. SAGA system skills... sort of: I've never played SAGA before, and am reluctant to revamp things quite that much. But the comments in this thread did get me thinking, that it might not be a bad idea to give everyone free ranks in most every skill equal to 1/4 their character level. So at 4th level you'd automatically have 1 free rank in Jump, Climb, Bluff, etc; at 16th level you'd have 4 free ranks. A few skills would be exempt from these free ranks: Speak Language, all Knowledge skills, Appraise, Crafts, Forgery, Professions, and the Channeler only skills. Basically the ones that take actual training and devotion of one's learning abilities. Anyway, these are the things I'm looking at implementing for my Wheel of Time game in the somewhat-near-future. Any thoughts or criticisms?
Zinuk 02-11-08, 04:24 PM	Concerning the weaves, are you aware of the two netbooks, UtDB (http://mapage.noos.fr/zinuk/downloads/UtDBsf.zip) and AoI (http://scepter.thehumblest.net/AoI/)? They have plenty new weaves, some based on the books and missing in the rulebook. A few more weaves missing from the books can be found at the end of the Forsaken write-ups (http://mapage.noos.fr/zinuk/downloads/forsaken.zip) (some of them are unfinished, though, it's a work in progress). You can also look up the stuff already existing for sword forms (http://pencil-pushers.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=29). Healing can work more than once per day (EotW – when they enter the Blight. Lan is healed multiple times.) A channeler cannot heal herself! - Suggest removing the once per day healing limit on Heal. Heal also inflicts 1d4 damage upon the target as it is cast. This damage is immediately healed in addition to the weave’s normal healing. It basically functions to illustrate that healing can kill someone who is too weak. - Create True Healing that has a once per day limit, but truly heals (not convert to subdual damage). It utilizes all 5 affinities, and is a (Lost) weave. The idea of healing dealing a little damage that is immediately healed is great! I agree with you that the limitation of healing once/day is incorrect. Instead, the limitation should be that healing the same wound again is not possible (unless if another healer tries and uses a higher level weave for that, but you would only roll a number of dice equal to the difference between the two levels of healing used). Creating a True Healing is very much necessary and has been done in the netbooks I mentioned earlier. Blossoms of Fire (KoD) Deathgates (KoD) Arrows of Fire (KoD) (Levels 8+?) - Suggest that the weave may be targeted 3 ways: 1. A 50 ft (?) line dealing 100 (or 10d10 ?) points of damage (Ref half) 2. A 50 ft (?) cone dealing 4d10 damage to all in the area (Ref half) 3. A 50 ft (?) half-circle radiating from the channeler dealing 2d10 damage (Ref half) Those notes on Arrows of Fire are just my attempts to figure out how to implement it. Arrows of Fire may well be the Cutting Lines of Fire weave from the RPG (that weave was included from Sammael's use of it in Crown of Swords - I've not reread the description to see if it is the same.) The Arrows of Fire weave from Knife of Dreams produces 100 lines of red, laser-like fire (10 from each finger), and Rand uses it to spread an area of destruction against hoards of trollocs, but he also focuses all of them on a single Myrddraal, killing it instantly. Over at Call of the Horn, we made a KoD sourcebook (http://mapage.noos.fr/zinuk/downloads/kod_sourcebook.zip) with all the new stuff from KoD. You can look up how the new weaves were handled. If you have any comment/suggestion about them, please do.
ksbsnowowl 02-11-08, 05:01 PM	I knew of UtDB (had it printed out at some point years ago) and Age of Illusions, but I'd just found the Knife of Dreams netbook after posting the above (linked by you, actually). Aside from a few spelling errors, I was quite impressed with its look and layout. I actually liked the write-ups for the KoD weaves within; they were very well done. Some of the things in the netbooks struck me as excessive and outlandish, but some of them are perfectly useable. I'll have to look at the links you gave me later on; they may well save me from searching for and writing my own weaves. I'll have to look at the swordform stuff later, but I think I'll prefer the ToB maneuver system that I've already worked on (I've matched many up with appropriate swordform names, just didn't list that all here).
Zinuk 02-13-08, 05:56 PM	Glad you liked the KoD sourcebook, and sorry for the spelling errors. I'll try to reread it carefully to eliminate them as much as possible. Some of the things in the netbooks struck me as excessive and outlandish, but some of them are perfectly useable. That's not surprising. I think they accepted every submission as long as it wasn't completely out of place so the quality can't be constant. Anyway, the time when the community was able to make netbooks for the WoT RPG is over, I'm afraid, with our numbers dwindling. So if you do some write-ups for missing weaves, don't forget to share them! It can always be useful to somebody else.
ksbsnowowl 02-15-08, 02:27 AM	Oh, don't worry; if I write some weaves, I'll definitely post them here. I was giving some thought to the interaction of a Vitality/Wounds system and the above comments I made about healing. First off, I realized that healing should apply first to any vitality point damage (the superficial stuff) before it heals actual wounds (represented by the Wounds points). Note how in the books there are times when an Aes Sedai wishes she could heal someone, but purposefully leave them with a headache as a small lesson (ie - Moiraine healing Egwene after Fain escapes Fal Dara in The Great Hunt); however, healing can't do that. If you heal the worst wound someone has, all their more minor wounds and bruises are gone. I'm still feeling my way through the implementation of the Vitality/Wounds system for WoT. As I looked at the V/W system presented in the d20 SRD (ala Unearthed Arcana) I realized I wouldn't use Vitality/Wounds straight as it is presented there. In that system, the vitality points merely represent physical exertion and fatigue, not so much actual (minor) physical injuries. The Wounds points are what show actual wounds. At least that's how it comes across to me; the vitality points heal back too quickly to represent actual minor injuries. If they aren't actual injuries, then there is nothing for the One Power to heal (except washing away fatigue - but that is a seperate weave in the book). I think I'd change the vitality healing rate to 1 point per hour, period. That means if you took 24 points of vitality damage, but no wounds damage, yeah, it'll take you a day to heal and overcome the newfound pain of minor cuts, and small sprains and muscle strains. Minor damage, not in the least life-threatening, but actual physical damage to your body. Something the One Power is actually healing. Perhaps it's not a big difference from healing one point per level per hour, but it's at least semiplausible that a minor cut or pulled muscle will have healed enough in a day to not hamper you; the same being healed in 4 hours (a 6th level character) pushes it a bit too much. But maybe I'm being nit-picky. I know hit points are an abstract thing to begin with. Also, with the Vitality/Wounds system as presented, subdual (or nonleathal, if you prefer) damage doesn't exist. This obviously creates some problems for the mechanics of the Healing weave as written, and I don't like some of the other mechanical implications of no subdual damage (how do you knock someone out without risking killing them? As the V/W system is presented, you can't). I guess the easiest way is to just add in subdual damage, and keep a running total as usual. When your subdual damage exceeds the total of your wounds points and vitality points combined, you fall unconscious (and perhaps any excess subdual damage begins reducing your vitality points - that way it is possible to beat someone to a bloody, dead pulp with repeated punching) With subdual damage included in the system, the Healing weave would first convert any vitality damage to subdual, and then any wounds damage to subdual. Then the subdual would heal at the rate of 1 point per level per hour. I'm not sure how I feel about the extremely complicated series of saves one makes if you reach 0 wounds points. I know that my group had to look up the rule every time it occured in the game I played with V/W points. But I guess it is more realistic than players saying "Oh, he's only at -1 hp's, we can wait a few rounds to heal him..." Anyway, I began rambling 3 paragraphs ago, so I'd better end this post and get to bed.
TheAleshandre 02-18-08, 09:29 AM	I'm actually working on a conversion to Modern instead of 3.5. I've seen too many 3.5 versions that while mechanically are sound, simply detract from the setting. I've started by converting the One Power system (mostly in a cosmetic manner) to Modern (via the Talents system instead of feats, etc.), then moved on to classes. The base classes from WoT are being turned into AdCs and the PrCs are getting split up into various AdC/PrCs that will fit the setting more effectively. It's still a work in progress, so if anyone wants to help or wants a look, just out of curiousity, let me know.
ksbsnowowl 02-20-08, 01:45 PM	So, as I was looking at additional weaves in UtDB, I noted the two revised versions of the Shield weave within it. The Shield weave in the game book itself is a horrible representation, admittedly. So I started thinking how to make it better. One of the revised shield weaves was ok... It was a good start, but it didn't take it far enough. Then it's use of opposed concentration checks sparked an idea for me. I tried to think of the things we've seen with shielding in the books that makes it so damaging, and a breathtaking struggle. We've seen the shielding battle between Nyneave and Moghedien, where they both have their shields hovering over eachother's links to the One Power, all the while they are trying to cut the other's weavings and distract one another. We've seen that it should be more difficult to succeed if the target is already embracing the source, and that the amount of the Power they can draw upon is an additional factor of degrees. (In one of the latter books, Elayne is shielded by a Damane because she is exhausted and can only pull on a small trickle of the power) We've seen that channelers who are not embracing the source at all often don't realise they've been shielded until they reach for the Power, and they are blocked. (Suian Sanche as she was captured by Elida and company in book 4). We've also seen and been told by Asmodean that 13 linked women, even weak ones, could manhandle a channeler as strong as Rand, even when he is already embracing the source. The bonuses from linking are astronomical (in other things as well - such as gateway size. Rand alone can't make a gateway larger than 12ft x 12ft. The linked Salidar sisters make one hundreds of feet wide.) We also know that a shield can be absolutely maintained by someone who is too weak to have shielded the target channeler in the first place. Based upon work done at WoTmania, one can be fairly sure that a channeler of 66% strength of the one being shielded can absolutely maintain the shield by herself. Finally, we know that portions of a linked shield can be tied-off (Ala Dumai's Wells). Doing so must provide some benefit, or else the sister's would not have done so with Rand. Please keep all of these things in mind as you read this weave. It is complex, I know, but it is a complex subject matter to try to emulate. A few other notes. I plan on using the alternate Linking chart from Under the Dragon's Banner. Basically it provides that women can get up to a +3 bonus from linking without any men, and it allows that a full circle of 72 gets a +9 bonus, rather than +8. I included the Cut Weave weave from UtDB because I reference it in the Shielding weave. Also, note that one's Power Rating (as described in Prophesies of the the Dragon) is equal to the sum of your Intelligence mod, Wisdom mod, Charisma mod, and your levels in channeling classes. Lastly, I wrote a simple Excel spreadsheet to test the numbers of this weave as it is written, and I think it holds up fairly well. Taking Rand's stats from the RPG book, but making him a 20th level channeler, meant that a circle of 8 brand-new Aes Sedai (Initiate 5, PR 10), and 4 young Aes Sedai (Initiate 5/AS1, PR 11), lead by an 8th level Aes Sedai (Initiate 5/AS 3, PR 13) could conclusively shield Rand, without a chance of failure, unless Rand drew so deeply that he risked burning himself out (he'd need to overchannel). Using Rand's stats straight out of the book (he is only a 12th level channeler), and assuming that Rand's shield was maintained at Dumai's Wells by a 7th level channeler linked to two 5th level channelers meant that their respective bonuses for the opposed check were: Rand: 45 Shielder: 57 A difference of 12 makes it quite possible for him to break through that given a few rounds of opposed rolls. I will admit that some of the details of this revised Shield weave of mine are a little complex, but the basics are straightforward. Basically it is opposed Concentration checks with bonuses for one's Power Rating, linking, and any angreal in use. Anyway, enough foreplay; here is my revised Shield weave: Shield (Revised) (By KSB Snow Owl) [Spirit] (Common) Level: Level 4 Casting Time: 1 action Range: Long (100 ft +10 ft/level) Target: One person Duration: Concentration Saving Throw: Will negates (See text) Weave Resistance: Yes You attempt to cut a channeler of the same gender off from the True Source, preventing her from channeling and immediately ending any weaves she is maintaining through concentration. Although the target cannot channel, she remains embraced to the True Source and does not need to embrace it again once the shield is dropped. If the target is embracing the True Source at the time the shield is cast, she can make a Will saving throw to negate the effect. If the target is not embracing the source, she does not get a Will save; proceed to the opposed Concentration check as if she had failed the save. On a failed save, the caster can attempt to slide the shield into place, cutting the target off from the One Power. The caster and the target make special opposed Concentration checks, adding several additional bonuses to the check. In the event of a tie, the defender always wins. The Concentration check for both participants is modified by their Power Rating (sum of the subject’s Intelligence bonus, Wisdom bonus, Charisma bonus, and levels in channeling classes, as detailed in Prophesies of the Dragon). If the target of the shield is embracing the True Source, she may add the level of her highest-available weave slot as a bonus to her defending opposed roll. Additional weave levels from angreal may be added to the opposed rolls of attackers, or targeted defenders who are embracing the True Source. Additional weave levels from Linking may be added to the opposed rolls of attackers, or a targeted defender who is the leader controlling a linked circle of channelers. Overchanneling: A defender can draw more deeply upon the True Source, thus making it more difficult to shield her. As a move action she may make an overchanneling attempt, as though increasing the weave level of her highest-level slot by one, two, or three levels. On a failure, she must make a Fortitude save or suffer the effects, just as if she had failed an overchanneling attempt. On a success she can draw more deeply on the One Power relatively safely for 5 rounds. She adds the appropriate overchanneling level value to any defending concentration checks she makes for the next five rounds. Overchanneling in this fashion does not expend any weave slots; you are just drawing more deeply on the True Source, you are not actually weaving anything with it. Extended overchanneling in this fashion is taxing, and the channeler takes 1 point of subdual damage per overchanneled level each round, for five rounds. She may end this overchanneling before five rounds have elapsed as a free action. Doing so ends the subdual damage. You need not wait until you are targeted with a shield to overchannel in this fashion; you may do it at any time in anticipation of a shielding attack. Linking: Linked channelers gain an exceptional bonus when attempting to shield a target, in addition to the level bonus provided from linking itself. All linked members other than the leader add one half their Power Rating (round down each individual’s Power Rating) to the Leader’s opposed Concentration checks to attack with or maintain a shield. If the channeler attacking with the shield wins the opposed Concentration check, the shield slides into place and takes effect, cutting the target off from the True Source. If the attacker ties the targeted defender’s check, or loses to the defender’s check, the defender has temporarily fought off the shield. As long as the attacker maintains concentration of the weave, it does not end, and additional attempts to slide the shield into place may be made as successive standard actions, which instigate additional opposed checks. Once per round, a channeler with the Multiweave Feat, who has just successfully defended herself from a shield attempt, and won the opposed check by 10 or more, may as a free action cast a Shield weave at the channeler attempting to shield her, or cast Cut Weave, targeting a weave cast by the attempted shielder, assuming she knows either the Cut Weave or Shield weaves. Note that this doesn’t allow an additional opposed check with an already-existing weave. To attempt a shielding with this free action, a new shield weave must be cast. This free action weave counts against the number of weaves you may concentrate on at one time via the Multiweave feat. Once a shield is in place, any other channeler can cast a shield weave on the same target, and it automatically takes effect. Maintaining a Shield: A shielded channeler may attempt to break through the shield holding her. This is a special opposed Concentration check. The shielded channeler makes a Concentration check, adding her Power Rating to her check result. The active maintainer of the shield makes an opposed Concentration check, adding three times her Power Rating to her check result. If linked or using an angreal, the shield maintainer adds the weave level bonuses from linking and the most powerful angreal in use to this opposed roll. She also adds one half the power rating (round down) of each individual in the linked circle other than herself. If the shielded channeler wins the opposed roll, she breaks through the shield and the shield weave ends. If the maintainer of the shield wins, or in the case of a tie, the shield is maintained. The shielded channeler may attempt to break through the shield once each round as a standard action. Tied-off Shields: A tied-off shield is more easily broken than one that is actively maintained. When the shield is tied off, the shielded channeler may continue to attempt breaking through the shield. In this case, the shield maintainer who tied off the weave continues to make defending opposed Concentration checks, but in addition to any angreal and linking bonuses, adds only two times her Power Rating to the opposed check. It is possible for some members of a linked circle maintaining a shield to tie off their portions of the shield so they may leave the circle but still maintain some of their strength to the shield. When a channeler ties off her portion of a linked shield, she can no longer add half her power rating to the circle leader’s active opposed Concentration checks, but she still counts as a member of the circle for the purposes of determining how many linked channelers are participating, and thus how large the level-bonus from linking is. The individual tied-off portions of a linked shield may be individually attacked as though they were their own tied off shield, using the rules above. These tied-off portions of a linked shield do not gain any bonuses from linking, and gain no Power Rating bonuses other than two times the Power Rating of the individual who tied it off. It does gain a bonus from any angreal the individual provided in the making of the shield. A tied-off portion that has been broken through no longer counts toward the linked shield. +1 Casting Level: You may shield a channeler of the opposite gender. +1 Casting Level: You increase the level of the weave by one, thus increasing the Will save DC as if it were a higher-level weave. This effect can be added multiple times, heightening the weave’s effect to 5th level, 6th level, or beyond.A small discussion on the linked shielding part:It might be better if the tied-off portions of a weave continued to grant their full power (linking bonus and half the channeler's Power Rating), and their only disadvantage be that they are succeptible to being broken as a tied-off shield is. I'll have to give it more thought. Suggestions?And the Cut Weave weave from Under the Dragon's Banner:Cut Weave (By Kevin Binswanger) [Spirit] (Common) Level: See text Casting Time: 1 action Range: Medium (100ft + 10ft. /level) Target: One weave Duration: Instantaneous Saving Throw: None Weave Resistance: No This weave fashions a knife made of pure Spirit and attacks any weave it’s directed at, be they just forming, tied-off or held through concentration. The casting level of this weave must be at least one higher than the weave it is used against. The weave does not need to be identified, but it must first be known that the weave is being cast. To cut a weave, make an opposing concentration check, where both channelers add their Power Level (sum of the subject’s Intelligence bonus, Wisdom bonus, Charisma bonus, and levels in channeling classes, as detailed in Prophesies of the Dragon). For every level cast higher than the target weave affords the channeler a +1 modifier to her opposed skill check. A success instantly unravels or cuts a held or tied-off weave. If used as a ready action to sever a weave as it is being formed, the weave is disrupted and does not form, but the weave is lost as if it had been cast.
Zinuk 02-20-08, 05:42 PM	There are quite of few revisions of the shield/slice weaves. I had made a little list of all those I know of in the old Call of the Horn Forums (still available here (http://mapage.noos.fr/zinuk/downloads/forums/coth.zip) in zipped form; it's in the "Alternate OP rules index" thread). I'll try to make one day a pdf out of all these rules, but it's not for now. You might be interested in a channeling system I did a few years ago which is based on opposed rolls and OP Strength & OP Dexterity. Here it is in pdf (http://mapage.noos.fr/zinuk/downloads/OPduel.pdf) (it's an unfinished system in its current form, but might give you some ideas). I tried to make it so that it simulate as exactly as possible the books (for example, there are no will save mechanics for that reason). The price is additional complexity, with the introduction of two new "stats" you have to compute and add each time you use the system. It was designed to pass the "6 Aes Sedai can hold any shield" test and the "13 linked Aes Sedai can shield anyone" test. The "1/3rd weaker holding the shield" test is not automatic, but highly probable. The stats used for the main characters in the examples are those from the Call of the Horn write-ups (the list of strengths can be found here (http://mapage.noos.fr/zinuk/downloads/21OPStrengthList.zip)). For example, the highest strength assumed is 20, which is a bit arbitrary. If you use different stats, the system would need a few tweaks.