. . . . .need Help. . . . . [Archive] - Wizards Community

. . . . .need Help. . . . . [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
hand over fist
08-24-06, 07:58 PM I posted something earler...but for some reason it vanished:weep: so here it is again. Please take a moment to lend a D&D brother a hand!

I need help with a new character starting at 1st lvl. I'm looking for a race/class combo that will best suit my stats, give me the best chance at survival and of course cause complete HAVOC!:D

There are no house rules except that we can only use books that are released by WotwC and are 3.5 D&D rules.

Im 90% sure I'm gonna be evil or at least chaotic Neutral.

I was thinking of playing a half dragon rogue-ish/fighter-ish/assassain-ish guy...but not sure. I dont want to spend alot of time on a toon that will be weak at higher levels...so I want some suggestions!!!:D

Is the level adjustment for half dragons worth it? How are they when the party is mid to high levels? What other race/classes would work with my stats and become very NASTY?

Thanks for your time...these are my stats:

STR: 10
DEX: 15
CON: 16
CHRA: 9
WIS: 14
INT: 9
PhoenixInferno
08-24-06, 08:11 PM Your post disappeared because the forums were updated and these new ones were based on an older snapshot.
Eela6
08-24-06, 08:30 PM Whatever you do, do not take Half-Dragon. As templates go, it's one of the less powerful ones, and templates are inherenty... well, weak.

You have an interesting stat line. Your intellect and charisma are low - though you have a fairly high dexterity and constitution, the low intellect won't make you a good rogue.

My best advice is going with Cleric, staying neutral and channeling positive rather than negative energy. Your Wisdom is low, but higher than any of your other mental stats - so spend your spell slots on personal augmentations and the like to minimize the effect this will have on you (spels that require saves are NOT a good idea). As a Cleric, you can fight as well or better than the fighters with good spell choice, and you won't fall horrendously behind at high levels. You can do some decent archery as well with your high dexterity (saving you a feat on Zen Archery).

As for race choices, if you're stuck with the System Reference Document (PHB), go with Dwarf. The +2 constitution (combined with your 16) will give you staying power, and the +2 to all magic saves is possibly the best racial benefit for LA+0 that I can think of.

Alternatively, grab the Lesser Aasimar from Races of Faerun. The +2 wis/cha will give you an extra turn undead use - and more importantly, 16 wisdom, bringing up your Save DCs a level and giving you more bonus spells.

If you don't want to play a cleric, go with a Whisper or Forest Gnome (the first is in Races of Stone) and play a Rogue. You won't have too many skills, and your UMD may suffer (as a Whisper Gnome, you will have 7 charisma), but you'll have an immense bonus to hide, useful spell-like abilities, and most importantly, 18 charisma (and small size).
hand over fist
08-24-06, 11:35 PM Anyone else?

Need class/race advice

What are some races that rock that I may not be thinking about right off the bat?
Random Sasquatch
08-24-06, 11:43 PM wow...

Can't any of those stats be moved around?

Playing evil, I like the whole paladin of tyranny to hexblade to blackguard to diciple of mephistoles. The unnamed stackable bonuses to your saves will give your DM fits. With your attributes distributed where they are though, this is not the direction you want to go.

Lemme think on it.
hand over fist
08-24-06, 11:49 PM No...my stats are set....But I can take 2 from one to add 1 to another...but that cost gets high quick.
igotsmeakabob!!
08-24-06, 11:53 PM Lol I see that your DM prefers the 2nd edition version of stat rolling... roll straight down the line and take 2 from 1 stat to give 1 to another stat.

Anyway, you'd make... wow.. actually I don't know what to do with those stats. maybe a human swordsage... but... wow. I don't know WHAT class will be decent with those stats. I was going to say Cleric but with such a low charisma...
hand over fist
08-25-06, 12:16 AM Lol I see that your DM prefers the 2nd edition version of stat rolling... roll straight down the line and take 2 from 1 stat to give 1 to another stat.

Anyway, you'd make... wow.. actually I don't know what to do with those stats. maybe a human swordsage... but... wow. I don't know WHAT class will be decent with those stats. I was going to say Cleric but with such a low charisma...

Wow, I thought my stats werent that bad...:weep:

I thought he could make a decent rogue/fighter type?...no?:confused:

Are drow worth the lvl adjust?

What about hobgoblins?

Please lend me a helping hand!:weep:
Zack2216
08-25-06, 12:17 AM Hmmm, have you considered a Mobile Archer Build, maybe a couple levels of fighter and ranger (they get a spell down the road that gives them minor sneak attack), going into order of the bow initiate or something? Maybe a longstrider/swiftglider Shifter. Maybe a two-weapon thrower with a level in warblade to meet prereqs of bloodstorm thrower and go into master thrower.

What kind of assissin do you want to play?
igotsmeakabob!!
08-25-06, 12:29 AM For numbers they're fine, but their distribution is really poor.. Strength 10 means that you can't really play any sort of front melee damage fighter, dex 15 would be great for rogue if you didnt have such a low intelligence (since rogues are skill dependant). Con 16 is really good for anyone. Charisma 9 discounts you from sorcerer, favored soul, and a cleric thats decent at turning. Maybe cleric if theres a character option to drop turn undead for something else not cha dependant. Wisdom 14 is too low to get level 9 spells with stat bonuses ever 4 levels, but you could take 2 dex give 1 wis a couple times for cleric, but once again, poor charisma. Intelligence 9 kills any kind of wizard or int based character. a Swordsage could be decent, you don't need too much in the area of strength because your manuevers can usually assist you, dex is good for them, con is great for a d8 hit die class, wis 14 is ok for his wis based abilties, and charisma isnt used at all. Intelligence can be a bother, since its a skill based class, but if you take 2 from con and give 1 to intelligence thats no negative, and being a human would give you some more skillpoints. Overall a mediocre (but not crappy) swordsage. But I can't think of anything else for you. I'm sure others will be able to help.
\\\
gorfnad the shiznit
08-25-06, 01:43 AM You could play as a blaster warlock or a ranged paladin with those stats actually. Scout or ranger might work as well, basically stay with ranged attacks with whatever you pick.
hand over fist
08-25-06, 02:21 AM For numbers they're fine, but their distribution is really poor.. Strength 10 means that you can't really play any sort of front melee damage fighter, dex 15 would be great for rogue if you didnt have such a low intelligence (since rogues are skill dependant). Con 16 is really good for anyone. Charisma 9 discounts you from sorcerer, favored soul, and a cleric thats decent at turning. Maybe cleric if theres a character option to drop turn undead for something else not cha dependant. Wisdom 14 is too low to get level 9 spells with stat bonuses ever 4 levels, but you could take 2 dex give 1 wis a couple times for cleric, but once again, poor charisma. Intelligence 9 kills any kind of wizard or int based character. a Swordsage could be decent, you don't need too much in the area of strength because your manuevers can usually assist you, dex is good for them, con is great for a d8 hit die class, wis 14 is ok for his wis based abilties, and charisma isnt used at all. Intelligence can be a bother, since its a skill based class, but if you take 2 from con and give 1 to intelligence thats no negative, and being a human would give you some more skillpoints. Overall a mediocre (but not crappy) swordsage. But I can't think of anything else for you. I'm sure others will be able to help.
\\\

So, if this character was yours...what would you do? Swordsage? If so what race? Then what would your build be? Is there a race out there that would bump my stats nicely without a major lvl adjust?
hand over fist
08-25-06, 02:23 AM Hmmm, have you considered a Mobile Archer Build, maybe a couple levels of fighter and ranger (they get a spell down the road that gives them minor sneak attack), going into order of the bow initiate or something? Maybe a longstrider/swiftglider Shifter. Maybe a two-weapon thrower with a level in warblade to meet prereqs of bloodstorm thrower and go into master thrower.

What kind of assissin do you want to play?

In what respect do you mean "What kind of assissin do you want to play?"
OldManWinter
08-25-06, 11:51 AM So, if this character was yours...what would you do? Swordsage? If so what race? Then what would your build be? Is there a race out there that would bump my stats nicely without a major lvl adjust?

I'd kill him off and make a new one.

I think you need to sit down and have a talk with your DM and make sure that he understands that this is supposed to be a game and be fun. I'm not saying that you need all 18's the be fun, but you should at least be able to move them around to match the kind of character you want to play.
PhaedrusXY
08-25-06, 12:00 PM Reposted from your old thread (http://boardsold.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=691706):

Can you rearrange your stats, or is the order unchangeable? Overall, I would suggest you try to decide at least what kind of character you want to play (caster, melee, archer, etc). However, if you can't change your stat order, then your options are limited there.

A Master of Shrouds (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7194232&postcount=12) could work. I'd probably enter with Warlock1/Cleric2, and use your Eldritch Blast + the Spider Walk invocation to stay alive.

However, I'm not sure that is the best choice, given your low Charisma. That will hurt your ability to use Divine Metamagic. You could pick Aasimar as your race, though, if LA buyoff is allowed. Playing an evil summoner of undead who's descended from creatures of light could be fun.

A monk going into Champion of Correlon Larathian might be a good idea for a melee character. I don't have links to any of those builds, but maybe someone will come along with one. You could also try restricted google searches for them, or look around in Surreal's "Handy Links for CO Work" which can be found via the "Important Threads" sticky at the top of the forum.

A cleric archer could also work, and you could combine this with the Master of Shrouds idea.
hand over fist
08-25-06, 12:02 PM ....sigh....

The stats are what they are and I'm running out of time to make this toon. I need help "optimizing" THIS guy.:)

Everyone in the group used the three dragon antie method for rolling us characters...so all of them are similar. No one is running with alot of 16-18s

Again, If these were YOUR stats...and you were in a D&D tournament to win nine million dollars(tax free)...what would make to give the absolute best chance of survival and havoc dealing???

Look at this as a challange...not the everyday mega fake ability scored toon...but a real one that needs direction.:)
igotsmeakabob!!
08-25-06, 12:08 PM Ah, thats not a very fair thing to say lol, mega fake ability scores.. I'm sure most of the stats given here are real ones. Remember, some people like rolling, some like point-buy, and some like custom ways.

But regardless, the tips I've given you are all I can think of.

And as for race, I'd suggest Human and going for Master of the Nine. The extra feat and skillpoints will be a great help for meeting prereqs. Depending on what level your game is going to, you may wish to take 1-2 levels of fighter to enter at level 8 instead of level 10 (which you'd be doing if you went straight swordsage).
hand over fist
08-25-06, 12:10 PM Ah, thats not a very fair thing to say lol, mega fake ability scores.. I'm sure most of the stats given here are real ones. Remember, some people like rolling, some like point-buy, and some like custom ways.

But regardless, the tips I've given you are all I can think of.

LOL...ok thanks for your suggestions!:D
igotsmeakabob!!
08-25-06, 12:15 PM Edited my post with a bit more stuff.
hand over fist
08-25-06, 12:18 PM What about some sort of Ranged Druid? Is there a Race out there that would bump my WIS without much level adjustment?
PhaedrusXY
08-25-06, 12:26 PM Good idea. Once you get wildshape, your bad str won't matter. Before that, you can use spells and missile weapons. Get an animal companion you can use as a mount to keep you mobile in the early levels. Ride around, shoot the enemy with a sling (or throw javelins, etc), and keep rolling your Flaming Sphere over them.
Nylkran
08-25-06, 12:26 PM If I were you, I would go Monk, for two reasons:

1) You have all the vital stats for a monk, (many will say STR is vital but it depends on what you do later).

2) Second, you could be a decent tank you would have a decent AC and fairly good HP, for a 1st level character. You won't be an offensive character but a defensive one, but at least you would be fairly decent at that.

Race, well I think you can't go wrong with Dwarf.

More a more controversial choice you could go with an Half-Orc, (a terrible race optmization wise), but if you can take the Orc-Paragon Class, (have to the Human first but and extra feat and more skills point are always good) from UA you could further boost your STR, and get Rage, then go Monk. (And still be lawfull).

Similarly you can go the PRC that gives you WIS to damage, (a monk PRC, the name escapes me but I believe is on OA, others here I am sure can point you to it).

I am sure thare are other options, and I know Monk is not the best class in the world but with your low STR, a high damage dice is second best.

Just my two balors... (In a campaing I played once that was the name of the currency...:D )
PhaedrusXY
08-25-06, 12:28 PM More a more controversial choice you could go with an Half-Orc, (a terrible race optmization wise), but if you can take the Orc-Paragon Class, (have to the Human first but and extra feat and more skills point are always good) from UA you could further boost your STR, and get Rage, then go Monk. (And still be lawfull).

Similarly you can go the PRC that gives you WIS to damage, (a monk PRC, the name escapes me but I believe is on OA, others here I am sure can point you to it).Half-Orc Paragon is the one that gets rage, not Orc paragon. A decent suggestion, though. Shiba Protector (or Defender... I forget) in Oriental Adventures is the class that gets Wis to attack and damage, at first level no less. It is considered a bit cheesy by many. There is also a feat in the Book of Exalted Deeds that gives you Wis to attack (and maybe damage) called Insightful Strike.
Pellanor
08-25-06, 12:31 PM The problem with the druid is that your Wisdom is too low to cast nineth level spells. (with +1 every 4th level, you'll only have a 18 at 19th level, so you wouldn't actually be able to cast a 9th level spell, without being wis buffed, until 20th level, making levels 17-19 a little weak [for a druid, still strong compared to a fighter])

What I think I would do with this build would be to make an Incarnate, Chaotic Aligned, from Magic of Incarnum. Con is the primary stat for Shoulmelds and the Chaotic aligned ones are good at mobility and range, which the Dex score will help out. They can also still skill monkey out, without needing a high Int.

You can check out Incarnate by the numbers for some details on what these guys are capable of.
PhaedrusXY
08-25-06, 12:56 PM He can just wear a Periapt of Wisdom, and/or use Tomes/Wishes. Since most of the druid's spells are going to be buffs and heals, he doesn't have to worry about his save DCs too much.
hand over fist
08-25-06, 01:08 PM He can just wear a Periapt of Wisdom, and/or use Tomes/Wishes. Since most of the druid's spells are going to be buffs and heals, he doesn't have to worry about his save DCs too much.

Ok..Phaedrus, Druid it is! So I'm gonna be Lawful Evil but what race?

Do you have any suggestions on prestige classes and feats? I always try to take improved initiative. Lets take this to the next step:D
PhaedrusXY
08-25-06, 01:15 PM You can't be a Lawful Evil druid, unfortunately. I also copied some suggestions from the first thread in an earlier post that would probably work as well, but I think you missed them because my post started with "can you change your stats", and you didn't read past that or something.

As far as prestige classes, I'd say none. Druid 20 is about as strong as anything in the game. I'm not the world's expert at building druids, but it is kind of hard to go wrong I think as long as you take Natural Spell at 6th. I'd suggest checking out the Druid's Handbook, which can be found via the Optimization Library (which can be found in the Important Threads index at the top of the page).

Druids have three things that they can focus on: Wildshaped combat, "normal" spellcasting, and summoning. I'd suggest wildshaped combat with some summoning thrown in. Depending on how you decide to focus, this will modify your feat choices.
aekilez
08-25-06, 01:20 PM the easiest thing for you to do would be to select a ranger, human you could easily build an extreme powerhouse out of that character with the skills you have and the great dex and con mods would help to your advantage greatly. And race would definitely be human just so you could easily get a few feats to boost your chars power even more
igotsmeakabob!!
08-25-06, 01:54 PM The problem with selecting a ranger is that he'd be doing no damage. 1-8 at most. That can get tiring at level 10 when monsters have 100s of HP and you still have 1d8 damage.
Slyver
08-25-06, 02:45 PM Wow, I thought my stats werent that bad...:weep:

I thought he could make a decent rogue/fighter type?...no?:confused:

The stats are pretty bad. The numbers aren't that bad, but the mandatory placement makes them really hard to deal with. They just don't go together very well in their current configuration. I hate that method of rolling. Sucks the fun right out of the game for me. It's roleplaying. You should be able to make the type of character you want, not the one your stats pidgeonhole you into.

Bi7ching aside I agree with the druid. I would go with human and take 4 out of dex to add 1 to int and 1 to wis. This will allow you to make your assassinish character. Druids can make great assassins. It will also allow you to keep up with your spell progression/wisdom.

I wouldn't go with ranged, just summon stuff for the first few levels for your melee. There really isn't anything more powerful, especially if you take augment or greenbound summoning.

Slyver
CanineLord
08-26-06, 08:57 PM How 'bout the standard:
Human
Ranger (wildshape variant) 5/Master of Many Forms 10/Nature's Warrior 1/Warshaper 4
Zack2216
08-26-06, 10:10 PM In what respect do you mean "What kind of assissin do you want to play?"

I was thinking sniper (focus more on ranged combat) vs. stabby (focus more on melee combat).
Fargren
08-26-06, 11:52 PM Human Lawfull Neutral Monk1/Druid X. Kick some serious ass. Pick spell focus conjuration and augment summoning at level one, as a monk(yes, you do meet the requisites). At level 2, meet awesomenes.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
hand over fist 08-24-06, 07:58 PM	I posted something earler...but for some reason it vanished:weep: so here it is again. Please take a moment to lend a D&D brother a hand! I need help with a new character starting at 1st lvl. I'm looking for a race/class combo that will best suit my stats, give me the best chance at survival and of course cause complete HAVOC!:D There are no house rules except that we can only use books that are released by WotwC and are 3.5 D&D rules. Im 90% sure I'm gonna be evil or at least chaotic Neutral. I was thinking of playing a half dragon rogue-ish/fighter-ish/assassain-ish guy...but not sure. I dont want to spend alot of time on a toon that will be weak at higher levels...so I want some suggestions!!!:D Is the level adjustment for half dragons worth it? How are they when the party is mid to high levels? What other race/classes would work with my stats and become very NASTY? Thanks for your time...these are my stats: STR: 10 DEX: 15 CON: 16 CHRA: 9 WIS: 14 INT: 9
PhoenixInferno 08-24-06, 08:11 PM	Your post disappeared because the forums were updated and these new ones were based on an older snapshot.
Eela6 08-24-06, 08:30 PM	Whatever you do, do not take Half-Dragon. As templates go, it's one of the less powerful ones, and templates are inherenty... well, weak. You have an interesting stat line. Your intellect and charisma are low - though you have a fairly high dexterity and constitution, the low intellect won't make you a good rogue. My best advice is going with Cleric, staying neutral and channeling positive rather than negative energy. Your Wisdom is low, but higher than any of your other mental stats - so spend your spell slots on personal augmentations and the like to minimize the effect this will have on you (spels that require saves are NOT a good idea). As a Cleric, you can fight as well or better than the fighters with good spell choice, and you won't fall horrendously behind at high levels. You can do some decent archery as well with your high dexterity (saving you a feat on Zen Archery). As for race choices, if you're stuck with the System Reference Document (PHB), go with Dwarf. The +2 constitution (combined with your 16) will give you staying power, and the +2 to all magic saves is possibly the best racial benefit for LA+0 that I can think of. Alternatively, grab the Lesser Aasimar from Races of Faerun. The +2 wis/cha will give you an extra turn undead use - and more importantly, 16 wisdom, bringing up your Save DCs a level and giving you more bonus spells. If you don't want to play a cleric, go with a Whisper or Forest Gnome (the first is in Races of Stone) and play a Rogue. You won't have too many skills, and your UMD may suffer (as a Whisper Gnome, you will have 7 charisma), but you'll have an immense bonus to hide, useful spell-like abilities, and most importantly, 18 charisma (and small size).
hand over fist 08-24-06, 11:35 PM	Anyone else? Need class/race advice What are some races that rock that I may not be thinking about right off the bat?
Random Sasquatch 08-24-06, 11:43 PM	wow... Can't any of those stats be moved around? Playing evil, I like the whole paladin of tyranny to hexblade to blackguard to diciple of mephistoles. The unnamed stackable bonuses to your saves will give your DM fits. With your attributes distributed where they are though, this is not the direction you want to go. Lemme think on it.
hand over fist 08-24-06, 11:49 PM	No...my stats are set....But I can take 2 from one to add 1 to another...but that cost gets high quick.
igotsmeakabob!! 08-24-06, 11:53 PM	Lol I see that your DM prefers the 2nd edition version of stat rolling... roll straight down the line and take 2 from 1 stat to give 1 to another stat. Anyway, you'd make... wow.. actually I don't know what to do with those stats. maybe a human swordsage... but... wow. I don't know WHAT class will be decent with those stats. I was going to say Cleric but with such a low charisma...
hand over fist 08-25-06, 12:16 AM	Lol I see that your DM prefers the 2nd edition version of stat rolling... roll straight down the line and take 2 from 1 stat to give 1 to another stat. Anyway, you'd make... wow.. actually I don't know what to do with those stats. maybe a human swordsage... but... wow. I don't know WHAT class will be decent with those stats. I was going to say Cleric but with such a low charisma... Wow, I thought my stats werent that bad...:weep: I thought he could make a decent rogue/fighter type?...no?:confused: Are drow worth the lvl adjust? What about hobgoblins? Please lend me a helping hand!:weep:
Zack2216 08-25-06, 12:17 AM	Hmmm, have you considered a Mobile Archer Build, maybe a couple levels of fighter and ranger (they get a spell down the road that gives them minor sneak attack), going into order of the bow initiate or something? Maybe a longstrider/swiftglider Shifter. Maybe a two-weapon thrower with a level in warblade to meet prereqs of bloodstorm thrower and go into master thrower. What kind of assissin do you want to play?
igotsmeakabob!! 08-25-06, 12:29 AM	For numbers they're fine, but their distribution is really poor.. Strength 10 means that you can't really play any sort of front melee damage fighter, dex 15 would be great for rogue if you didnt have such a low intelligence (since rogues are skill dependant). Con 16 is really good for anyone. Charisma 9 discounts you from sorcerer, favored soul, and a cleric thats decent at turning. Maybe cleric if theres a character option to drop turn undead for something else not cha dependant. Wisdom 14 is too low to get level 9 spells with stat bonuses ever 4 levels, but you could take 2 dex give 1 wis a couple times for cleric, but once again, poor charisma. Intelligence 9 kills any kind of wizard or int based character. a Swordsage could be decent, you don't need too much in the area of strength because your manuevers can usually assist you, dex is good for them, con is great for a d8 hit die class, wis 14 is ok for his wis based abilties, and charisma isnt used at all. Intelligence can be a bother, since its a skill based class, but if you take 2 from con and give 1 to intelligence thats no negative, and being a human would give you some more skillpoints. Overall a mediocre (but not crappy) swordsage. But I can't think of anything else for you. I'm sure others will be able to help. \\\
gorfnad the shiznit 08-25-06, 01:43 AM	You could play as a blaster warlock or a ranged paladin with those stats actually. Scout or ranger might work as well, basically stay with ranged attacks with whatever you pick.
hand over fist 08-25-06, 02:21 AM	For numbers they're fine, but their distribution is really poor.. Strength 10 means that you can't really play any sort of front melee damage fighter, dex 15 would be great for rogue if you didnt have such a low intelligence (since rogues are skill dependant). Con 16 is really good for anyone. Charisma 9 discounts you from sorcerer, favored soul, and a cleric thats decent at turning. Maybe cleric if theres a character option to drop turn undead for something else not cha dependant. Wisdom 14 is too low to get level 9 spells with stat bonuses ever 4 levels, but you could take 2 dex give 1 wis a couple times for cleric, but once again, poor charisma. Intelligence 9 kills any kind of wizard or int based character. a Swordsage could be decent, you don't need too much in the area of strength because your manuevers can usually assist you, dex is good for them, con is great for a d8 hit die class, wis 14 is ok for his wis based abilties, and charisma isnt used at all. Intelligence can be a bother, since its a skill based class, but if you take 2 from con and give 1 to intelligence thats no negative, and being a human would give you some more skillpoints. Overall a mediocre (but not crappy) swordsage. But I can't think of anything else for you. I'm sure others will be able to help. \\\ So, if this character was yours...what would you do? Swordsage? If so what race? Then what would your build be? Is there a race out there that would bump my stats nicely without a major lvl adjust?
hand over fist 08-25-06, 02:23 AM	Hmmm, have you considered a Mobile Archer Build, maybe a couple levels of fighter and ranger (they get a spell down the road that gives them minor sneak attack), going into order of the bow initiate or something? Maybe a longstrider/swiftglider Shifter. Maybe a two-weapon thrower with a level in warblade to meet prereqs of bloodstorm thrower and go into master thrower. What kind of assissin do you want to play? In what respect do you mean "What kind of assissin do you want to play?"
OldManWinter 08-25-06, 11:51 AM	So, if this character was yours...what would you do? Swordsage? If so what race? Then what would your build be? Is there a race out there that would bump my stats nicely without a major lvl adjust? I'd kill him off and make a new one. I think you need to sit down and have a talk with your DM and make sure that he understands that this is supposed to be a game and be fun. I'm not saying that you need all 18's the be fun, but you should at least be able to move them around to match the kind of character you want to play.
PhaedrusXY 08-25-06, 12:00 PM	Reposted from your old thread (http://boardsold.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=691706): Can you rearrange your stats, or is the order unchangeable? Overall, I would suggest you try to decide at least what kind of character you want to play (caster, melee, archer, etc). However, if you can't change your stat order, then your options are limited there. A Master of Shrouds (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7194232&postcount=12) could work. I'd probably enter with Warlock1/Cleric2, and use your Eldritch Blast + the Spider Walk invocation to stay alive. However, I'm not sure that is the best choice, given your low Charisma. That will hurt your ability to use Divine Metamagic. You could pick Aasimar as your race, though, if LA buyoff is allowed. Playing an evil summoner of undead who's descended from creatures of light could be fun. A monk going into Champion of Correlon Larathian might be a good idea for a melee character. I don't have links to any of those builds, but maybe someone will come along with one. You could also try restricted google searches for them, or look around in Surreal's "Handy Links for CO Work" which can be found via the "Important Threads" sticky at the top of the forum. A cleric archer could also work, and you could combine this with the Master of Shrouds idea.
hand over fist 08-25-06, 12:02 PM	....sigh.... The stats are what they are and I'm running out of time to make this toon. I need help "optimizing" THIS guy.:) Everyone in the group used the three dragon antie method for rolling us characters...so all of them are similar. No one is running with alot of 16-18s Again, If these were YOUR stats...and you were in a D&D tournament to win nine million dollars(tax free)...what would make to give the absolute best chance of survival and havoc dealing??? Look at this as a challange...not the everyday mega fake ability scored toon...but a real one that needs direction.:)
igotsmeakabob!! 08-25-06, 12:08 PM	Ah, thats not a very fair thing to say lol, mega fake ability scores.. I'm sure most of the stats given here are real ones. Remember, some people like rolling, some like point-buy, and some like custom ways. But regardless, the tips I've given you are all I can think of. And as for race, I'd suggest Human and going for Master of the Nine. The extra feat and skillpoints will be a great help for meeting prereqs. Depending on what level your game is going to, you may wish to take 1-2 levels of fighter to enter at level 8 instead of level 10 (which you'd be doing if you went straight swordsage).
hand over fist 08-25-06, 12:10 PM	Ah, thats not a very fair thing to say lol, mega fake ability scores.. I'm sure most of the stats given here are real ones. Remember, some people like rolling, some like point-buy, and some like custom ways. But regardless, the tips I've given you are all I can think of. LOL...ok thanks for your suggestions!:D
igotsmeakabob!! 08-25-06, 12:15 PM	Edited my post with a bit more stuff.
hand over fist 08-25-06, 12:18 PM	What about some sort of Ranged Druid? Is there a Race out there that would bump my WIS without much level adjustment?
PhaedrusXY 08-25-06, 12:26 PM	Good idea. Once you get wildshape, your bad str won't matter. Before that, you can use spells and missile weapons. Get an animal companion you can use as a mount to keep you mobile in the early levels. Ride around, shoot the enemy with a sling (or throw javelins, etc), and keep rolling your Flaming Sphere over them.
Nylkran 08-25-06, 12:26 PM	If I were you, I would go Monk, for two reasons: 1) You have all the vital stats for a monk, (many will say STR is vital but it depends on what you do later). 2) Second, you could be a decent tank you would have a decent AC and fairly good HP, for a 1st level character. You won't be an offensive character but a defensive one, but at least you would be fairly decent at that. Race, well I think you can't go wrong with Dwarf. More a more controversial choice you could go with an Half-Orc, (a terrible race optmization wise), but if you can take the Orc-Paragon Class, (have to the Human first but and extra feat and more skills point are always good) from UA you could further boost your STR, and get Rage, then go Monk. (And still be lawfull). Similarly you can go the PRC that gives you WIS to damage, (a monk PRC, the name escapes me but I believe is on OA, others here I am sure can point you to it). I am sure thare are other options, and I know Monk is not the best class in the world but with your low STR, a high damage dice is second best. Just my two balors... (In a campaing I played once that was the name of the currency...:D )
PhaedrusXY 08-25-06, 12:28 PM	More a more controversial choice you could go with an Half-Orc, (a terrible race optmization wise), but if you can take the Orc-Paragon Class, (have to the Human first but and extra feat and more skills point are always good) from UA you could further boost your STR, and get Rage, then go Monk. (And still be lawfull). Similarly you can go the PRC that gives you WIS to damage, (a monk PRC, the name escapes me but I believe is on OA, others here I am sure can point you to it).Half-Orc Paragon is the one that gets rage, not Orc paragon. A decent suggestion, though. Shiba Protector (or Defender... I forget) in Oriental Adventures is the class that gets Wis to attack and damage, at first level no less. It is considered a bit cheesy by many. There is also a feat in the Book of Exalted Deeds that gives you Wis to attack (and maybe damage) called Insightful Strike.
Pellanor 08-25-06, 12:31 PM	The problem with the druid is that your Wisdom is too low to cast nineth level spells. (with +1 every 4th level, you'll only have a 18 at 19th level, so you wouldn't actually be able to cast a 9th level spell, without being wis buffed, until 20th level, making levels 17-19 a little weak [for a druid, still strong compared to a fighter]) What I think I would do with this build would be to make an Incarnate, Chaotic Aligned, from Magic of Incarnum. Con is the primary stat for Shoulmelds and the Chaotic aligned ones are good at mobility and range, which the Dex score will help out. They can also still skill monkey out, without needing a high Int. You can check out Incarnate by the numbers for some details on what these guys are capable of.
PhaedrusXY 08-25-06, 12:56 PM	He can just wear a Periapt of Wisdom, and/or use Tomes/Wishes. Since most of the druid's spells are going to be buffs and heals, he doesn't have to worry about his save DCs too much.
hand over fist 08-25-06, 01:08 PM	He can just wear a Periapt of Wisdom, and/or use Tomes/Wishes. Since most of the druid's spells are going to be buffs and heals, he doesn't have to worry about his save DCs too much. Ok..Phaedrus, Druid it is! So I'm gonna be Lawful Evil but what race? Do you have any suggestions on prestige classes and feats? I always try to take improved initiative. Lets take this to the next step:D
PhaedrusXY 08-25-06, 01:15 PM	You can't be a Lawful Evil druid, unfortunately. I also copied some suggestions from the first thread in an earlier post that would probably work as well, but I think you missed them because my post started with "can you change your stats", and you didn't read past that or something. As far as prestige classes, I'd say none. Druid 20 is about as strong as anything in the game. I'm not the world's expert at building druids, but it is kind of hard to go wrong I think as long as you take Natural Spell at 6th. I'd suggest checking out the Druid's Handbook, which can be found via the Optimization Library (which can be found in the Important Threads index at the top of the page). Druids have three things that they can focus on: Wildshaped combat, "normal" spellcasting, and summoning. I'd suggest wildshaped combat with some summoning thrown in. Depending on how you decide to focus, this will modify your feat choices.
aekilez 08-25-06, 01:20 PM	the easiest thing for you to do would be to select a ranger, human you could easily build an extreme powerhouse out of that character with the skills you have and the great dex and con mods would help to your advantage greatly. And race would definitely be human just so you could easily get a few feats to boost your chars power even more
igotsmeakabob!! 08-25-06, 01:54 PM	The problem with selecting a ranger is that he'd be doing no damage. 1-8 at most. That can get tiring at level 10 when monsters have 100s of HP and you still have 1d8 damage.
Slyver 08-25-06, 02:45 PM	Wow, I thought my stats werent that bad...:weep: I thought he could make a decent rogue/fighter type?...no?:confused: The stats are pretty bad. The numbers aren't that bad, but the mandatory placement makes them really hard to deal with. They just don't go together very well in their current configuration. I hate that method of rolling. Sucks the fun right out of the game for me. It's roleplaying. You should be able to make the type of character you want, not the one your stats pidgeonhole you into. Bi7ching aside I agree with the druid. I would go with human and take 4 out of dex to add 1 to int and 1 to wis. This will allow you to make your assassinish character. Druids can make great assassins. It will also allow you to keep up with your spell progression/wisdom. I wouldn't go with ranged, just summon stuff for the first few levels for your melee. There really isn't anything more powerful, especially if you take augment or greenbound summoning. Slyver
CanineLord 08-26-06, 08:57 PM	How 'bout the standard: Human Ranger (wildshape variant) 5/Master of Many Forms 10/Nature's Warrior 1/Warshaper 4
Zack2216 08-26-06, 10:10 PM	In what respect do you mean "What kind of assissin do you want to play?" I was thinking sniper (focus more on ranged combat) vs. stabby (focus more on melee combat).
Fargren 08-26-06, 11:52 PM	Human Lawfull Neutral Monk1/Druid X. Kick some serious ass. Pick spell focus conjuration and augment summoning at level one, as a monk(yes, you do meet the requisites). At level 2, meet awesomenes.