Post/Author/DateTime	Post
hand over fist 09-02-06, 05:24 AM	What is the overall impression of the Invisible Blade Prestige class? Do tell!!!:D
VandalSidereal 09-02-06, 05:53 AM	I've had some luck with the prestige class in the past, however, I wasn't exactly optimizing it to the fullest. The intelligence bonus to AC works well with any other class that makes good use of a high int bonus, like the swashbuckler, and I've even seen it used admirably with a master thrower/exemplar combo. Also, feinting as a free action is a stupendously cool trick. The fact that it only applies to the attack after you use it can be offset by using Flick of the Wrist. That way, you get a rather powerful hit on an opponent who might even be looking right at you. However, my DND kung-fu is not strong. Await more skilled posts.
Maat_Mons 09-02-06, 07:13 AM	I don’t think feinting has a high enough success rate to be your primary means of gaining a sneak attack. Your opponent adds his base attack bonus to his sense motive check. Non-humanoids can have around double their challenge rating in hit dice, so their modifiers will tend to be good. Even against humanoids, I don’t see you getting much better than a fifty percent success rate (for martial enemies). The situation could be improved if your DM allows custom skill boosting items, but I find those to be a hard sell in practice. In any case, five levels is a heavy investment to gain one sneak attack per round. Full base attack bonus, full sneak attack progression (with specific weapons), and intelligence as a bonus to AC are nice. It’s just that the class only caters to high-intelligence rouges that fight with daggers. There are no class features that really wow me; the best feature over rouge levels is the AC bonus, but that caps at five and you have to give up an armor bonus of around four to use the ability. At low levels you can come out ahead by mooching a mage armor spell from an ally and at high levels you can invest heavily in bracers of armor to see a boost of as much as four in your AC. I just can’t contemplate using the class without getting the nagging feeling that I could find a more useful prestige class to use.
gorfnad the shiznit 09-02-06, 07:18 AM	Invisible Blade is awesome in my opinion, however the printing in the Complete Warrior is off as far as the inteneded pre-reqs are concerend This link has the 10 level Invisible Blade as intended by the author with the correct pre-reqs http://boards1.wizards.com/leaving.php?destination=http://wakinglands.com/htm_files/the_prestige_classes_page.htm&origin= This link has the author's explaination of the pre-reqs (scroll down to the author, sonofapreacherman's posts) http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=139190 And this link is an insane 16 dagger-a-round thrower Invisible Blade http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=147294 Also, the Players Guide to Faerun has some awesome gloves on page 123 that are the best item for an Invisible Blade. And combine those with a modified Quiver of Endless Arrows (just sub daggers for arrows, link below), than you're golden. http://boards1.wizards.com/leaving.php?destination=http://www.andycollins.net/Features/stuff_that_holds_stuff.htm&origin=
Daeger 09-02-06, 08:09 AM	It would be nice if designer intent was hard errata, but unfortunately it's not. In its current condition, by RAW, Invisible Blade requires what it requires, and that's the sad truth. The whole class just doesn't mesh well with itself. The assassin is far superior for sneak attack. Greater Invisibility > One free action feint per round. Even without assassin though, I still don't think it's worth it, except maybe in a throw build.
Bopple 09-02-06, 11:15 AM	Since you get only one free feint per round, I don't think it's worth the prerequisite.
Slyver 09-02-06, 12:24 PM	It would be nice if designer intent was hard errata, but unfortunately it's not. In its current condition, by RAW, Invisible Blade requires what it requires, and that's the sad truth. Survey says 9 out of 10 DM's agree, original designers intent > obvious WotC editing errors. I don't personally know a single DM who wouldn't accept the original designer's printed word (with an explanation of how the editing error occured) over non-sensical material printed in an "official" book. I mean, we are all pedants and despots in our own little solipsist DnD world, but very few of us are actually that bad (although obviously there are exceptions). If you want to roleplay Heinrich Himmler, make him as a character instead of pretending you're him in your posts. While your statement itself was not technically incorrect, its implication that what actually goes on in most games and with most DMs should have no place in our discussion, has no place in our discussion. Keep your opinions as opinions and don't hide them in pseudo-fact to convince the rest of us what we are, or are not, allowed to play with. That happens too much on this board, it isn't just you (I have even caught myself doing it occasionally). As for the invisible blade, even with the original designers prereqs, it is a pretty bad class. With all the abilities of the class you must use daggers and only daggers or you lose those abilities. In fact, by the rules as worded, if you even have teeth that are too big (bite attack) or anything similar you lose the int to AC bonus, even if you choose not to use them. Now thats fine for some builds, because some people really want to use daggers, but in general, being so pigeon-holed into a specific weapon for sub-optimal abilities is just poor character planning. As for the rest of it, good BAB with decent skill points and good SA progression are fine, but there are better ways of getting that. The int to AC is ok, but it requires all five levels of the class just for it to cap at 5, which by itself is mostly useless. The improved feint is once/round and again, mostly useless. Overall, I have yet to see a build that benefits from this class better than could be done with five levels of some other class. So, in short, I've seen worse classes, but it appears to be always sub-optimal. Slyver
gellor 09-02-06, 05:48 PM	Here's a link to one I just created. I like him pretty well, great ac, int, skills and abilities. Combining it with a monk is the way to go. However that super throwing one is pretty sweet. http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?p=9950807 Lots of variation, just depends on your play style.
Swrdsinger 09-02-06, 06:03 PM	I don't have the book in front of me, but don't the prereq feats as written dovetail pretty well with those for the master thrower class? Those two classes always seemed to work really well together anyway, and with similar feat prereqs, I mean, it's just so stinkin' easy to do.
Surreal 09-02-06, 06:08 PM	Hmm, maybe some dips into Tattoed Monk and Warlock for a +16 boost to bluff?
Zendu 09-02-06, 06:15 PM	I dont really see warlock working well for this, but thats just me.
Daeger 09-02-06, 07:44 PM	Survey says 9 out of 10 DM's agree, original designers intent > obvious WotC editing errors. I don't personally know a single DM who wouldn't accept the original designer's printed word (with an explanation of how the editing error occured) over non-sensical material printed in an "official" book. But it's not an editing error. Wizards of the Coast purposely changed the prerequisites and the class. The original intent was a 10 level prestige that got butchered down, and conversely, I don't know a lot of DM's that would just let you play something when the people who actually made the game saw fit to change it.
Slyver 09-02-06, 08:12 PM	But it's not an editing error. Wizards of the Coast purposely changed the prerequisites and the class. The original intent was a 10 level prestige that got butchered down, So, the original class is ten levels; it was reduced to five, all the throwing stuff was taken out, it was made primarily a melee class, but the throwing prerequisites were left in, and the melee prerequisites were taken out... Add to that the author stating that it is an editing error and should have errata when WotC gets to it... And you tell me that WotC is so completely flawless that it was the intent (who's intent I might ask if not the authors) to have the class make absolutely no sense? Your statement that it was intent to have changed it exactly as it is, is speculation on your part, not fact. You know, we play this game, and this game becomes so personal to us, we become so immersed in the world of the game, that the rules become biblical in nature. Some of the arguments that happen on this board feel like a papal convention. WotC can and does make editing errors. It is not divinely inspired. God is not speaking to moses and telling him the rules of the universe to be translated further in our next expansion. According to the author and (generally speaking) an inate sense of propriety it was a mistake. As a mistake it should be ignored. I'm not saying that everyone has to. They can make up whatever rules they want because it isn't actually the rules of the universe. and conversely, I don't know a lot of DM's that would just let you play something when the people who actually made the game saw fit to change it. I don't know any DM's stupid enough to ignore obvious editing errors when the author comes along and says that it is. Just because WotC is too busy trying to make money pushing out the next book and doesn't have the time to publish errata on the 100's to 1000's!!! of editing errors in their various books doesn't make it not a mistake. Slyver
Daeger 09-02-06, 08:19 PM	So, the original class is ten levels; it was reduced to five, all the throwing stuff was taken out, it was made primarily a melee class, but the throwing prerequisites were left in, and the melee prerequisites were taken out... Add to that the author stating that it is an editing error and should have errata when WotC gets to it... And you tell me that WotC is so completely flawless that it was the intent (who's intent I might ask if not the authors) to have the class make absolutely no sense? You know, we play this game, and this game becomes so personal to us, we become so immersed in the world of the game, that the rules become biblical in nature. Some of the arguments that happen on this board feel like a papal convention. WotC can and does make editing errors. It is not divinely inspired. God is not speaking to moses and telling him the rules of the universe to be translated further in our next expansion. It was a mistake. As a mistake it should be ignored. I'm not saying that everyone has to. They can make up whatever rules they want because it isn't actually the rules of the universe. I don't know any DM's stupid enough to ignore obvious editing errors when the author comes along and says that it is. Just because WotC is too busy trying to make money pushing out the next book and doesn't have the time to publish errata on the 100's to 1000's!!! of editing errors in their various books doesn't make it not a mistake. Slyver No, that's where you're wrong. The author never said it was a mistake - atleast not on the Wizards boards, so correct me if I'm wrong. He stated what he thinks the prerequisites should be. I've read into this issue before. He also mentioned it's likely Wizards changed the prerequisites to reflect the Invisible Blade's adept ability to throw daggers as well as use them in melee combat, regardless of whether or not they have received abilities to synergize with those same prerequisites. It wouldn't be the first class to do this. Look at the Jade Phoenix Mage. They get Rite of Waking and yet they don't even have a single knowledge skill as a class skill. Fact of the matter is, GM's like to keep things simple. If you stroll on in with a printout of some post on designer intent from a message board, from an author the guy doesn't even know, on a mistake that's probably not even a mistake, he's not going to be as quick to accept it as errata as you might think. In fact, I would be quite wary if a GM accepted something like that as quickly as you suggest he would.
colm_l 09-03-06, 09:46 AM	No, that's where you're wrong. The author never said it was a mistake - atleast not on the Wizards boards, so correct me if I'm wrong. He stated what he thinks the prerequisites should be. I've read into this issue before. He also mentioned it's likely Wizards changed the prerequisites to reflect the Invisible Blade's adept ability to throw daggers as well as use them in melee combat, regardless of whether or not they have received abilities to synergize with those same prerequisites. Let's just cut to the quick: Case one: Overtired WOTC editor removes the wrong two prereqs from a cut down PRC. Writer points this out on the boards & states the correct ones. Case two: WOTC have master plan involving toning down a balanced class by giving it illogical prereqs which actually clash with the focus of the class. Your call.
Daeger 09-03-06, 09:50 AM	Let's just cut to the quick: Case one: Overtired WOTC editor removes the wrong two prereqs from a cut down PRC. Writer points this out on the boards & states the correct ones. Except neither Point Blank Shot or Far Shot were original prerequisites, they would have to be added. Plus, the writer has said before that it's probably not a mistake - he merely gave a suggestion of what they should be. Sorry, but you can't really pass off a suggestion as RAW. It would be a house rule if you changed the Invisible Blade prerequisites, plain and simple.
hand over fist 09-03-06, 06:04 PM	Okay, I understand the need and value of this particular board...LOL...thats why I'm here!!!:D But, I think my needs are a bit different. Most of these Min/Max builds are geared to squeeze every drop out of the character yet it seems they usually come together at levels 18-20. The game I play in comes to a close at or around the 18th lvl. Then we start over. Using the inviso blade class, are there any builds that I can see some great action and "nasty-ness" in and during the mid levels of play? With the pre req feats AS THEY ARE, what feats will be needed to get the most out of the build? What is the preferred race to play with? Any help would be awesome!!!:D
Daeger 09-03-06, 06:32 PM	Okay, I understand the need and value of this particular board...LOL...thats why I'm here!!!:D But, I think my needs are a bit different. Most of these Min/Max builds are geared to squeeze every drop out of the character yet it seems they usually come together at levels 18-20. The game I play in comes to a close at or around the 18th lvl. Then we start over. Using the inviso blade class, are there any builds that I can see some great action and "nasty-ness" in and during the mid levels of play? With the pre req feats AS THEY ARE, what feats will be needed to get the most out of the build? What is the preferred race to play with? Any help would be awesome!!!:D The preferred race to play any sort of sneaky race has darkvision, period. I would say whisper gnome is the absolute best you can pick. The dark creature template from Tome of Magic is also good, and if you choose neither, the belt of dwarvenkind is a nice substitute. There are the goggles too, but I find them overpriced for just darkvision. If your GM is nice, you can flip over in your PHB to the paid services and pay to have darkvision made permanent with a permanency spell, which is a lot cheaper. Darkvision is important because in the dark, your enemy gets concealment. If you can't see in the dark, that means no sneak attacking for you, which derails everything a sneaky type is supposed to do. If you can convince your GM to let you play one, the Assassin prestige in the DMG is one of the better, if not best, prestiges available for this kind of character archetype. This is partly in due to the early entry, easy prerequisites, and spell support the Assassin has gotten in supplements (since its a core prestige). I really wouldn't recommend Invisible Blade in any kind of run, long or short, atleast not as written. If your GM lets you play it with different prerequisites, I'd still be a little cautious about taking it, as I consider feinting pretty weak. I mean, you get the free action feint at what, 10th or 11th level at its earliest? By then, you might be able to afford a ring of blink. Ring of blink makes every single attack you make a sneak attack, and the miss chance is completely negated if you use ghost touch (but even if you don't have ghost touch, the miss chance is still tolerable for what you get).
hand over fist 09-03-06, 06:57 PM	Do you still like two weapon fighting with assassins?
hand over fist 09-03-06, 11:06 PM	yes?...no?....hello?
BobSutan 09-04-06, 12:29 AM	I don’t think feinting has a high enough success rate to be your primary means of gaining a sneak attack. Your opponent adds his base attack bonus to his sense motive check. Damn, there goes the build I just made for my melee rogue (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?p=9976868) :(
colm_l 09-04-06, 05:58 AM	Except neither Point Blank Shot or Far Shot were original prerequisites, they would have to be added. The original prereqs were point blank shot, weapon finesse & Weapon Focus. It is simple to assume that far shot was added to the list before it was cut down to a 5 level PRC. Plus, the writer has said before that it's probably not a mistake - he merely gave a suggestion of what they should be. Please provide a link for this- as the one I have says: The editors at Dragon had asked me to change the invisible blade prerequisites to reflect their ranged-based abilities, but when they later changed the invisible blade into a 5-level prestige class (and removed the dagger throwing abilities), they likely forgot to change the prerequisites as well. To use the printed version of the invisible blade as is, simply change the prerequisites feats to: Weapon Focus (dagger, kukri, or punching dagger) and Weapon Finesse. Now can we please move on without you continuing a pointless argument?
Daeger 09-04-06, 06:28 AM	[Double post.]
Daeger 09-04-06, 06:30 AM	Now can we please move on without you continuing a pointless argument? I see you did your homework, but, you didn't do enough. That was posted prior to this: Does any one know what those change will be in the Official Errata?I actually spoke to Ed Stark about this very thing over e-mail, and he made a good point. While it's true that the invisible blade is primarily geared towards melee combat, the 5-level version of this prestige class will find itself at a clear disadvantage when ranged attacks become important. Regardless of the reasons that lead to these prerequisite feats, they still serve a useful purpose insofar as giving the 5-level invisible blade some measure of attacking from a distance. So if you look at the Point Blank Shot and Far Shot prerequisite feats as rounding out the invisible blade (rather than contradicting their melee-driven purpose) those choices make sense. That said, the 10-level version of the invisible blade makes a point of focusing both on ranged and melee dagger fighting. Because its ten levels long rather than 5, there is obviously more time in which to explore additional abilities. Point Blank Shot, Weapon Focus (dagger, kukri, or punching dagger), and Weapon Finesse are the initial prerequisite feats, with Far Shot being granted at 4th level, and "extreme dagger throw" coming into play at 7th level. Far Shot doubles the increments of all thrown weapons (daggers increase from 10 feet to 20 feet) and extreme dagger throw increases that increment again, from 20 feet to 30 feet. Perfect for ranged sneak attacks (which can be made up to a maximum distance of 30 feet). I hope that helps. Many people have already told me that while they like my 10-level version of the invisible blade, they actually prefer the 5-level version, namely because they can get uncanny feint (free action) that much sooner. So it really is a trade off. :) As you can see, Sonofapreacherman spoke to Ed Stark himself. Don't recognize the name? Look at the cover of Complete Warrior. If it was going to be errata at one time - it's not anymore. Now, what your GM wants to do is up to him, but the fact of the matter is, Invisible Blade's prerequisites are RAW, were not addressed in the errata, and are not going to be addressed in the errata, ever. It's not a mistake, and, officially, it's staying the way it is right now. You can always ask if he'll let you use the unofficial 10-level version as well. Satisfied? Edit: Link to thread. (http://boards1.wizards.com/archive/index.php/t-147421.html)
colm_l 09-04-06, 07:22 AM	Satisfied? Indeed
Daeger 09-04-06, 07:38 AM	Glad that's settled then.
hand over fist 09-04-06, 01:33 PM	Daeger, I know youre not super impressed with the Inviso Blade PrC overall, but if forced to make a build with it...what build would you use?:D Rogue...then Inviso blade...then swash?...please help me out with what you know. Thanks!!!:D
wonlee76 09-04-06, 01:57 PM	Case two: WOTC have master plan involving toning down a balanced class by giving it illogical prereqs which actually clash with the focus of the class. You're kidding me right? There are other prestige classes with illogical pre-reqs that clash with the focus of the prestige class. Usually its only 1 or maybe 2 feat pre-reqs at most but it doesn't stop WOTC from putting in pre-reqs that are basically useless for the prestige class. So WOTC actually doing this for Invisible Blade makes some sense if the purpose of the feat pre-reqs is to avoid making the prestige class too powerful by making the feat pre-reqs synergize "too" well with the class. The best example I can think of off the top of my head that has pre-reqs that put the Invisible Blade's pre-reqs to shame is: Master of Shrouds: A prestige class focused on Incorporeal undead (No Str and Con Scores) with the pre-req of Augment Summoning... yeah, that works out really well. It must be an editing error by those damn overtired WOTC editors for letting such an obvious mistake slip through!
fricot_1 09-04-06, 02:12 PM	i had an invisible blade once before, it was a little rough around the edges and im sure someone more experienced could improve it, but this is what i did... Male Whisper Gnome 1) Ninja - far shot 2) Ninja 3) Ninja - point blank shot 4) Ninja 5) Ninja 6) Fighter - wep.foc.dagger - 2.wep.fighting 7) InvBld 8) InvBld 9) InvBld - improved 2.wep.fighting Thats as far as I got, but you can imagine the progression if it continued... 10) InvBld 11) InvBld 12) Master Thrower - Weapon Finesse Yes, getting Weapon Finesse this late could be a problem, but I'll show you a way of getting it earlier at the bottom of this build... 13) Master Thrower 14) Master Thrower 15) Master Thrower - ???? 16) Master Thrower If you want weapon finesse earlier, you can sacrifice your darkvision (and hope to get a belt of dwarvenkind or some other means) and be a human as your race, as your bonus feat - take waepon finesse. The five levels in ninja can also be exchanged for levels in rogue, I just perfer ninja because they are naturally cooler, and besides: they have capes :D
fricot_1 09-04-06, 02:21 PM	or even something completely unorthodox, and yes im using this build in my next campaign... male human 1) Swash - weapon finesse [bonus], wep. focus(dagger) 2) Swash 3) Swash - point blank shot 4) Rogue 5) Ninja 6) shadow thief of amn - far shot 7,8,9) Invisible Blade - ???? 10,11) Invisible Blade 12) Shadow Thief of Amn 13) Shadow Thief of Amn 14) Ninja 15) Ninja 16) Rogue 17) Rogue 18) Assasin 19) Assasin 20) Assasin You'll have +11d6 Sneak Attack, poison usage, intelligence to damage, a death attack (weak, but useful if you need to knock off low level bodyguards and such), all the invisible blade abilities, and a cape:D - the latter of course for being a ninja
hand over fist 09-04-06, 04:49 PM	I'm good with anything cept the ninja...just doesnt fit at all in the style and feel of our storyline. What build would work well without the ninja class?
FriendlyFrog 09-05-06, 02:50 AM	Anything, really. What kind of book restrictions do you have? For your race, (Strongheart) Halflings make the best throwers, and are all around good, Humans have their uses and Whisper gnomes always make good rogue-like characers. Good prestige classes to mix with Invisible blade include Assassin (sneak attack, spells, HiPS), Master thrower (ability to throw your daggers very efficiently), Dread commando (sudden strike, full BAB, reduced armor check penalty, bonus to initiative), Nightsong enforcer (some sneak attack, full BAB, good class abilities) and Halfling paragon (bonus damage to your thrown daggers and +2 Dex). Rogue 3/Fighter 2/Invisible blade 5/Nightsong enforcer 10 wouldn't be bad melee fighter at all: 19 BAB, 9d6 sneak attack. Rogue 3/Halfling paragon 3/Invisible blade 5/Master thrower 5/Nightsong enforcer 4 would be a pretty good thrower: 18 BAB, 7d6 sneak attack.
Glanoric 09-05-06, 03:43 AM	Full bab and full sneak attack progression, if you're going for damage output as a rogue, there aren't many classes that do that for you. Outside of Rokugan anyway. I think it's pretty good and synergizes very well with whisperknife for my favorite rogue build (ftr 2/rog 3/ib 5/wk 10, bab 19, 8d6 sneak attack).
colm_l 09-05-06, 05:54 AM	<Snip> Cheers - but I actually do understand basic Prc balancing ;) I think you missed a few words in what I was saying Case two: WOTC have master plan involving toning down a balanced class by giving it illogical prereqs which actually clash with the focus of the class. Apart from the capstone feint ability (already errataed away), the IB doesn't have any strong ability which needs punishing (& unusual) prereqs. They get a boost to AC which caps at 5 & is dependant on int (Somehow I think most players are going to just wear armour). Sneak attack with limitations & Full BAB. On the other hand, "Master of shrouds" (whose prereqs are more applicable since not everything they summon will be an incorporeal undead - though the prereqs are unusual & don't do their job) is a class which at 5th level (Cleric 2/Monk 1/MoS 2) breaks the game till the other classes catch up.
hand over fist 09-05-06, 10:53 AM	how does it "break the game"?
Zedraikis 09-05-06, 11:13 AM	or even something completely unorthodox, and yes im using this build in my next campaign... male human 1) Swash - weapon finesse [bonus], wep. focus(dagger) 2) Swash 3) Swash - point blank shot 4) Rogue 5) Ninja 6) shadow thief of amn - far shot 7,8,9) Invisible Blade - ???? 10,11) Invisible Blade 12) Shadow Thief of Amn 13) Shadow Thief of Amn 14) Ninja 15) Ninja 16) Rogue 17) Rogue 18) Assasin 19) Assasin 20) Assasin You'll have +11d6 Sneak Attack, poison usage, intelligence to damage, a death attack (weak, but useful if you need to knock off low level bodyguards and such), all the invisible blade abilities, and a cape:D - the latter of course for being a ninja You have to waste a feat on Persuasive to qualify for Shadow Thief of Amn. So there's your 9th level feat. And I'd make my first level Rogue, not Swashbuckler. Much more skill points.
colm_l 09-05-06, 12:20 PM	how does it "break the game"? More bend seriously out of shape rather than break. One of it's class features allows it to summon Incorporeal undead such as shadows. At 5th level very few things can actually harm one (low NPC wealth, v. few magic weapon monsters etc.). Add to that the strength damage they inflict & they can rapidly churn through a few otherwise extremely strong encounters each day.
coolpenguin410 09-05-06, 12:44 PM	I'm working on an invisible dagger build that combines the ninja's AC bonuses, Flick of the wrist, and Deft Strike. By the time I get to 3 attacks, I can get sneak attacks on all of them regardless of your philosophy on that. Draw Weapon (free action) - auto flat footed Uncanny Feint and 'take 10' (free action) - flat footed failling a sense motive Ghost Step (swift action) - flat footed for being struck by an invisible attacker It's mostly a fun/flavor build. (He always carries 7 daggers on him, hidden over his body, plus a kukri, punching dagger, and a sai.) Also, at level 8, I have an AC 23 before magical items (and I'm not even wearing armor).
sus323 09-05-06, 04:20 PM	Just to chime in with my two cents.... Yeah, I can see how the Invisible Blade may not be the most powerful Prestige Class out there, but it does have a certain flavor. Not great for super damage, but cool for a swashbuckle-y character. If you really want to pump more damage into the class, I suggest working in some levels of Swordsage (from the Book of Nine Swords). The class abilities dovetail great with either swashbuckler or rogue and provide some needed punch in the damage department. My current character is heading down that road. Right now he's just... Human Rogue 1 / Swashbuckler 1 / Swordsage 3 But next level he's diving into Invisible Blade. Once the 5 level progression is done, I plan on taking more Swordsage, since the level of stance/maneuvers I can get will still increases during my PrC levels. So for flavor, the Invisible Blade is cool, but for mucho damage...not so much.
hand over fist 09-05-06, 09:19 PM	Just to chime in with my two cents.... Yeah, I can see how the Invisible Blade may not be the most powerful Prestige Class out there, but it does have a certain flavor. Not great for super damage, but cool for a swashbuckle-y character. If you really want to pump more damage into the class, I suggest working in some levels of Swordsage (from the Book of Nine Swords). The class abilities dovetail great with either swashbuckler or rogue and provide some needed punch in the damage department. My current character is heading down that road. Right now he's just... Human Rogue 1 / Swashbuckler 1 / Swordsage 3 But next level he's diving into Invisible Blade. Once the 5 level progression is done, I plan on taking more Swordsage, since the level of stance/maneuvers I can get will still increases during my PrC levels. So for flavor, the Invisible Blade is cool, but for mucho damage...not so much. Could you enlighten me with your build and feat/skill progression as of now?:) Thanks!
hand over fist 09-08-06, 03:18 AM	hello??????????:confused:
sus323 09-09-06, 08:25 PM	Ooops....Sorry about the delay. Here's that build (keep in mind, I'm using the alternate prerequisits, not the ones found in Compete Warrior) 1. Rogue: Dodge (feat), TWF (human bonus feat) 2. Swashbuckler: Weapon Finesse (class ability) 3. Swordsage: Mobility (feat), WF (dagger) swordsage class ability 4. Swordsage 5. Swordsage That's what I am currently. I forget the name of the 1st level swordsage class ability that allows you to get weapon focus on a discipline weapon. I don't have the book in front of me. My plan for future levels is to next go for Invisible Blade (as level 6) and get spring attack as my 6th level feat. Hope this helps.
sus323 09-09-06, 08:29 PM	Oh yeah, you asked for skills too. Well, I forget what the progression was, but rogue, swashbuckler and swordsage all have great skills so meeting the requirments for Invisible Blade is going to be a breeze. Keep in mind, this character is for a roleplay heavy game so my skill choices would not be good for a bash and slash dungeon crawl. In order of importance my skill choices are Bluff, Diplomacy, Tumble, Sense Motive, Gather Info, Use Magic Device, Knowledge (Nobility), Jump