Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Dark_and_Stormy 04-07-05, 09:09 PM	I've been on these here boards a long time, and haven't seen this combo. Here's my discovery... Build I'm playing with: Hexblade3/Fighter2/Kensai10/Warhulk5 (Modified Version) Hexblade3/Fighter2/Kensai5/Warhulk10 ...And I'll tell you why I think it's pretty good. This dude is just meant to be a combat beast. Not too many dips, allowed in quite a few games, I believe, and not reliant on magic and spellcasting. I like the abilities of full Kensai, but many like the Warhulk. YMMV. Just noticed that although Kensai requires Diplomacy5 and Ride5, The key skill for Kensai is Concentration. Which is based on CON. (A :cookie: for anyone who knows what I'm aiming at already!) Warhulks Disadvantage at Level 1, is "No Time to Think". Effectively, you are considered to have 0 Ranks in all WIS, INT, and CHA based skills (Barring Intimidate) Again, Concentration is based on CON. Kensai Level 2 Gets Ki Projection. Kensai Level 5 Gets Withstand. Both are excellent abilities (not copied here for CoC reasons). Both rely on Concentration. So, our build above has some very nice features: Hexblade3/Fighter2/Kensai10/Warhulk5 Primary Race: Desert-Orc (UA) with a Half-Minotaur Template, LA Buyoff. Alternate Race: Half-Ogre is probably just as good. Max Ranks in Concentration Fort Save +11 (Base) Ref Save +5 (Base) Will Save +9 (Base) Fort and Will have Mettle ability Reflex can usually be replaced with a concentration skill (As per Withstand) Most Large races already have high STR and CON...And don't forget a high CON score is important for Concentration skill, too! STR = 49 (18 Base +5 Levels +10Warhulk +4Orc +4Half-Minotaur +8Size Increase) WITH NO MAGIC. Add +6Book, +6Item +6Inherent, +8 for PowerSurge (on a successful Concentration check) for an easy... STR=75. You could take STR to 85 by taking all 10 Warhulk levels, but your Kensai weapon will be lesser for it. I'd rather my warhulk have a +Lots Weapon. Suggested Weapon: Serren (BoED, Ghost Touch Equivilent) Masterwork Large Greatclub. Suggested Kensai Enhancement: +1 Wrathful Healing (+3) Sure-Striking (+1) Speed (+3) Vicious (+1) Maiming (+1). Metalline suggested for metal weapons, of course. GreatAxe/GreatSword? Concentration +23 (Ranks) +30 (Item) 50-something without trying! Use THIS as your reflex save. Other Advantages Ki Warlord - Like Leadership, but not as good. Magic Weapon from Kensai Great Swing/Mighty Swing. (Use that Club even more!) Racial Feats of Endurance, Track, and Scent. Feats Required: Combat Expertise Weapon Focus Power Attack (for Cleave) Cleave. Feats Suggested: Great Cleave, Combat Reflexes. Maybe Brutal Throw. Suggested Items: Ring of Evasion (Works with Withstand) Item of Concentration +30 Aurorum Weapon of Choice (Signature Weapon) Item of Spell Resistance So... Any thoughts?
Part-Human2 04-07-05, 10:04 PM	If a warhulk is considered to have 0 ranks in CHA based skills then you lose Diplomacy and some DMs use the rule "if you lose your prerequisites, you lose the benefits of the PrC". Also Wish = Inherent bonus = same bonus as from a Book = Max 5. I'm hard pressed to find a DM that accepts the Half-Minotaur template (+1 LA for Large and +12 STR).
Dark_and_Stormy 04-07-05, 10:50 PM	A Warhulk is considered to have 0 ranks, but still actually HAS the required 5 ranks. But if anyone asks for a diplomacy check, it's just raw CHA. Ranks don't get counted. But they're still there. Yep, you're right on inherent = book. But I can't shake the feeling I'm missing one of the standards... My DM made Half-Minotaur +2LA. But I still reckon it's pretty good. As I mentioned, Half-Ogre probably works nearly as good for the basic idea.
Part-Human2 04-08-05, 01:51 AM	Check or no, the War Hulk is considered to have 0 ranks in Diplomacy, not "ranks don't add to Diplomacy checks". Perhaps we have different understanding on the English language; I read it as "for all intents and purposes, War Hulks have 0 ranks in all CHA, WIS and INT based skills."
LefferDP 04-08-05, 02:06 AM	Yeah, if someone played with that rule, the Kensai levels would be trashed. Honestly, most DMs I know though just don't let items and such qualify you for PrCs, so they usually don't use such a rule. If I was DMing someone, and I didn't hate the Miniature Handbook on many levels, I'd allow him to keep the class abilities, though.
Dark_and_Stormy 04-08-05, 02:15 AM	No Time To Think (Ex) "A character with levels in the warhulk prestige class is considered to have 0 ranks in all Intelligence, Wisdom, and Charisma-based skills (whether or not he has bought ranks in them previously). The only exception is the intimidate skill, which works normally." It doesn't say "You now have zero ranks" or "Your existing ranks, if any, are deleted". But I see your point, there could be some concern there. Guess that would be a GM call. Again. But I still thought it was a nice idea.
PhaedrusXY 04-08-05, 02:57 AM	It doesn't say "You now have zero ranks" It pretty much does, yeah. It's not like it's a temporary effect, like negative levels, either. For game purposes, "considered to have zero ranks" means "has zero ranks". I can't really see how any other interpretation could be used, unless you're just deliberately wanting to bend/ignore the rules. Of course, if you take the War Hulk levels last, and subscribe to the opinion that lost prereqs don't make you lose access to class features, but just make it so you can't take anymore levels of the class, then this isn't a problem.
gabrion 04-08-05, 03:36 AM	Wrong thread...