+0-2 LA Shapechangers [Archive] - Wizards Community

+0-2 LA Shapechangers [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
DM_Dracophile
12-19-05, 04:33 PM What sort of PC racial options might fit into that category?
tiluvias99
12-19-05, 04:35 PM Changeling, MM3
DM_Dracophile
12-19-05, 04:48 PM So, playing a Changeling with Alter Self would allow you to take the form and some abilities of any other creature with the Shapechanger Type...so long as it was your HD/lvl or lower. Correct?
tsuyoshikentsu
12-19-05, 04:59 PM So, playing a Changeling with Alter Self would allow you to take the form and some abilities of any other creature with the Shapechanger Type...so long as it was your HD/lvl or lower. Correct?

Actually, I think you'd end up as a Humanoid... alter self depends on type and not subtype.

If you're in 3.0, though, that should work.
P33KAJ3W
12-19-05, 05:15 PM Actually, I think you'd end up as a Humanoid... alter self depends on type and not subtype.

If you're in 3.0, though, that should work.

In 3.0 Shapechanger was a type, not a subtype.
Reinhart
12-19-05, 05:21 PM Cheap Shapechangers:

Changling (Eb) LA +0
Hengeyokai (OA) LA +0
Shifter (Eb) LA +0

Irda (DL) LA +2

Irda are really neat but not worth their level adjuster. They basically have a "prestige level adjuster" in my opinion. It's there to scare off players from making them a popular choice. Basically their hit to constitution and favored class of wizard make them all but unsurvivable.

In 3.0 these would all be Shapechangers but in 3.5 they're all Humanoid (Shapechanger).

By 3.5 rules, which Changling, Shifter, and Irda were created in, and Hengeyokai has been updated to, Alter Self grants them no more shapes than it would any other humanoid. However, an Irda's shapechange power works exactly as Alter Self 3/day except it does not change their clothing and has unlimitted duration.
Diplominator
12-19-05, 06:02 PM However, it does allow them access to Warshaper early. It's less useful to them than if you had polymorph or something, but a changling could qualify by level 4.
DM_Dracophile
12-19-05, 07:01 PM Phooey

I was hoping to find a low LA critter capable of assuming certain lycanthropic forms via Alter Self.
Skulan
12-19-05, 09:57 PM Unfortunately, that's a no-go in any case. SRD speaketh:

"You cannot take the form of any creature with a template, even if that template doesn’t change the creature type or subtype."

-Skulan
DM_Dracophile
12-19-05, 10:12 PM Bummer.
Never noticed that before. Also forgot that Lycanthrope is, technically, a Template.

Ah well, thanks for the info folks.

So...anyone know of anything that's not a Lycanthrope but happens to have a cat-hybrid and regular cat form? :angelhide
Scottbert
12-19-05, 10:17 PM Cat hengeyokai?

If you didn't know this already, my guess is you don't know what a hengeyokai is. Basically, they have three forms, a human form, a hybrid form, and an animal form. In hybrid form they get a bonus to a physical ability score and one other special ability (Like increased movement rate or usually a bonus to a skill). They can change form (character level + 1) times per day, if I recall. That's how many times they can switch from one form to another - their shifting does not have a 'duration' - IE, if a 1st-level hengeyokai changes to hybrid form to fight and then animal form to scout, he'll have to stay as an animal for the rest of the day.

Hengeyokai are in Oriental Adventures. There it says they have an LA of +1, but that is because in 3E, as members of the Shapeshifter type, they were immune to effects that only affect humanoids. In 3.5e, they would be Humanoids with the Shapechanger subtype and thus do not need a LA.
DM_Dracophile
12-19-05, 10:38 PM This just in.....I'm a doofus! lol

Thanks man! I completely forgot about them and they're PERFECT

:bow:
Reinhart
12-20-05, 08:41 PM Well, there are Cat-people in Races of the Wild. They have some neat feat options and good ability scores but I think they're a LA +1.

Also Shifter from Eberron is an lycanthrope "lite" character race. You are supposedly descended from Lycanthropes. (Or Lycanthropes originally are descended from your race, it's uncertain.) Your character has animal features in appearance but no real animal traits until you "shift." Shifting is like a barbarian rage, sort of. It's a limitted times per day racial ability that lasts for a duration based mostly on your constitution. While shifting you manifest specific animal powers. You get to choose which powers at character creation, and can enhance them through special "shifter feats" and a few shifter specific prestige classes.

There are not specific rules for what animals you look like or which animals give you which powers. That's a good thing in my opinion. You can be a cat shifter and get claws, or be a cat shifter and get extra speed, etc.

The one thing shifters can't actually do though is turn into an animal without special class features. There is a prestige class called the Weretouched Master that basically gives a shifter all the powers of a lycanthrope of his choice.

Hengeyokai are from Oriental Adventures 3.0 but were updated this year for 3.5 in Dragon Magazine. They are now a LA 0 race. Scottbert did a good job of explaining them so I don't have to add much other than they are limitted to being specific kinds of animals, much like how a wizard is limitted in his selection of familiars. So nothing with much offensive power.

Hengeyokai were a popular choice for Warshaper before Changlings were revealed. The only problem with Hengeyokai though is that it's not clear what their "true form" is, so it's difficult to interpret how certain spells affect them and when they recieve Warshaper powers. Conceptually and mythically Hengeyokai are animal spirits who have gained the power to take human shape, so it's probably either their animal form or their hybrid form.
DM_Dracophile
12-20-05, 08:56 PM Do you happen to know the Dragon issue number for that Hengeyokai conversion?

Gracias
Part-Human2
12-20-05, 09:34 PM Cheapest way to get the Shapechanger subtype :
Planar Touchstone Site - Glade of the Were something (PlanarHB) permanently grants the subtype.
tsuyoshikentsu
12-20-05, 10:48 PM Do you happen to know the Dragon issue number for that Hengeyokai conversion?

Gracias

I think it's either 313 or 318, but if your DM has any common sense he'll agree.
Lord Schpungus
12-20-05, 11:41 PM it's 318. I know because it's the ninja pirate dinosaur issue.
PonTelon
12-21-05, 02:32 AM it's 318. I know because it's the ninja pirate dinosaur issue.
With a theme like that, could that issue be anything BUT awesome?

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
DM_Dracophile 12-19-05, 04:33 PM	What sort of PC racial options might fit into that category?
tiluvias99 12-19-05, 04:35 PM	Changeling, MM3
DM_Dracophile 12-19-05, 04:48 PM	So, playing a Changeling with Alter Self would allow you to take the form and some abilities of any other creature with the Shapechanger Type...so long as it was your HD/lvl or lower. Correct?
tsuyoshikentsu 12-19-05, 04:59 PM	So, playing a Changeling with Alter Self would allow you to take the form and some abilities of any other creature with the Shapechanger Type...so long as it was your HD/lvl or lower. Correct? Actually, I think you'd end up as a Humanoid... alter self depends on type and not subtype. If you're in 3.0, though, that should work.
P33KAJ3W 12-19-05, 05:15 PM	Actually, I think you'd end up as a Humanoid... alter self depends on type and not subtype. If you're in 3.0, though, that should work. In 3.0 Shapechanger was a type, not a subtype.
Reinhart 12-19-05, 05:21 PM	Cheap Shapechangers: Changling (Eb) LA +0 Hengeyokai (OA) LA +0 Shifter (Eb) LA +0 Irda (DL) LA +2 Irda are really neat but not worth their level adjuster. They basically have a "prestige level adjuster" in my opinion. It's there to scare off players from making them a popular choice. Basically their hit to constitution and favored class of wizard make them all but unsurvivable. In 3.0 these would all be Shapechangers but in 3.5 they're all Humanoid (Shapechanger). By 3.5 rules, which Changling, Shifter, and Irda were created in, and Hengeyokai has been updated to, Alter Self grants them no more shapes than it would any other humanoid. However, an Irda's shapechange power works exactly as Alter Self 3/day except it does not change their clothing and has unlimitted duration.
Diplominator 12-19-05, 06:02 PM	However, it does allow them access to Warshaper early. It's less useful to them than if you had polymorph or something, but a changling could qualify by level 4.
DM_Dracophile 12-19-05, 07:01 PM	Phooey I was hoping to find a low LA critter capable of assuming certain lycanthropic forms via Alter Self.
Skulan 12-19-05, 09:57 PM	Unfortunately, that's a no-go in any case. SRD speaketh: "You cannot take the form of any creature with a template, even if that template doesn’t change the creature type or subtype." -Skulan
DM_Dracophile 12-19-05, 10:12 PM	Bummer. Never noticed that before. Also forgot that Lycanthrope is, technically, a Template. Ah well, thanks for the info folks. So...anyone know of anything that's not a Lycanthrope but happens to have a cat-hybrid and regular cat form? :angelhide
Scottbert 12-19-05, 10:17 PM	Cat hengeyokai? If you didn't know this already, my guess is you don't know what a hengeyokai is. Basically, they have three forms, a human form, a hybrid form, and an animal form. In hybrid form they get a bonus to a physical ability score and one other special ability (Like increased movement rate or usually a bonus to a skill). They can change form (character level + 1) times per day, if I recall. That's how many times they can switch from one form to another - their shifting does not have a 'duration' - IE, if a 1st-level hengeyokai changes to hybrid form to fight and then animal form to scout, he'll have to stay as an animal for the rest of the day. Hengeyokai are in Oriental Adventures. There it says they have an LA of +1, but that is because in 3E, as members of the Shapeshifter type, they were immune to effects that only affect humanoids. In 3.5e, they would be Humanoids with the Shapechanger subtype and thus do not need a LA.
DM_Dracophile 12-19-05, 10:38 PM	This just in.....I'm a doofus! lol Thanks man! I completely forgot about them and they're PERFECT :bow:
Reinhart 12-20-05, 08:41 PM	Well, there are Cat-people in Races of the Wild. They have some neat feat options and good ability scores but I think they're a LA +1. Also Shifter from Eberron is an lycanthrope "lite" character race. You are supposedly descended from Lycanthropes. (Or Lycanthropes originally are descended from your race, it's uncertain.) Your character has animal features in appearance but no real animal traits until you "shift." Shifting is like a barbarian rage, sort of. It's a limitted times per day racial ability that lasts for a duration based mostly on your constitution. While shifting you manifest specific animal powers. You get to choose which powers at character creation, and can enhance them through special "shifter feats" and a few shifter specific prestige classes. There are not specific rules for what animals you look like or which animals give you which powers. That's a good thing in my opinion. You can be a cat shifter and get claws, or be a cat shifter and get extra speed, etc. The one thing shifters can't actually do though is turn into an animal without special class features. There is a prestige class called the Weretouched Master that basically gives a shifter all the powers of a lycanthrope of his choice. Hengeyokai are from Oriental Adventures 3.0 but were updated this year for 3.5 in Dragon Magazine. They are now a LA 0 race. Scottbert did a good job of explaining them so I don't have to add much other than they are limitted to being specific kinds of animals, much like how a wizard is limitted in his selection of familiars. So nothing with much offensive power. Hengeyokai were a popular choice for Warshaper before Changlings were revealed. The only problem with Hengeyokai though is that it's not clear what their "true form" is, so it's difficult to interpret how certain spells affect them and when they recieve Warshaper powers. Conceptually and mythically Hengeyokai are animal spirits who have gained the power to take human shape, so it's probably either their animal form or their hybrid form.
DM_Dracophile 12-20-05, 08:56 PM	Do you happen to know the Dragon issue number for that Hengeyokai conversion? Gracias
Part-Human2 12-20-05, 09:34 PM	Cheapest way to get the Shapechanger subtype : Planar Touchstone Site - Glade of the Were something (PlanarHB) permanently grants the subtype.
tsuyoshikentsu 12-20-05, 10:48 PM	Do you happen to know the Dragon issue number for that Hengeyokai conversion? Gracias I think it's either 313 or 318, but if your DM has any common sense he'll agree.
Lord Schpungus 12-20-05, 11:41 PM	it's 318. I know because it's the ninja pirate dinosaur issue.
PonTelon 12-21-05, 02:32 AM	it's 318. I know because it's the ninja pirate dinosaur issue. With a theme like that, could that issue be anything BUT awesome?