1 Splatbook max per char houserule [Archive] - Wizards Community

1 Splatbook max per char houserule [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
evilgenius
08-02-05, 06:19 PM Hey all. I was wondering about allowing a "1 splatbook per character" maximum rule as an alternative to some of the other Character Optimizing limitations I see all the time - for instance, some DMs say "no PrCs at all", and others may say "PrCs are fine, but you have to finish them before another", and others limit the numbers you can have overall.

I know that this is obviously abusable, but I'm not trying to limit my players here, I'm trying to cut down on how much I spend on books!

So, what's the opinion on a 1 splatbook (or non-core source) rule? I don't want to end up spending loads of cash to keep up with players...

I guess "the internet" could be considered a single source too. Is there a complete list of WoTC published PrCs online? It's a pain finding links to them all...

Thanks!
Jolly Josh
08-02-05, 06:26 PM Thats no good... just make your players OWN the books they wanna use... if they wanna have something from CW, CD, BoED, CAdv, and CA in there character then those players better own those books and bring those books to the table... they are all reference really... you just need to look at rules in them real quick and pass them back
stanfield
08-02-05, 06:39 PM Honestlty I would recomend only the Complete series and core books be allowed. If you are running a specific campaign setting then I would suggest you allow those in also. The reason being is that these sources are generally extremely balanced and flexible to each players needs.

If you are a bit more patient I would suggest allowing anything you approve by having players bring the book and a photocopy of the specific things they want in it for you to review.

Another good rule of thumb is to allow max three base classes and two prestiege classes per character. In that this allows a great deal of versatility and is authentic to the realities of most characters.

Ultimately though just be mindful of your needs, your players desires and where these two seperate but intertwined things intersect most comfortably for your play group.

Hope that helps :D
amekaze
08-02-05, 06:39 PM I'd suggest just asking the players to buy their own books, and then asking them if you could borrow the ones that they want to use so you can read them over the week or so before character creation and find things you like/don't like/think are exploitable.

Honestly, though, I wouldn't worry about CO too much. Really abusive characters like the H.I.V.E. and cheater of mystra are more gags than anything else: funny to bring to a one-shot or as a joke on an overconfident DM, but not really something viable to play in a serious game, and are pretty easily picked up on and ruled against.

I'd be more worried about things that don't take advantage of holes in the rules but are still likely to generate a power gulf between characters or frustration for the DM if they don't know how to handle it.

If book limitation is really your thing, though, core plus BoED and the Complete X line are a good base and allow a lot of nice options.
evilgenius
08-03-05, 11:14 PM Thanks for the replies. The counter offer from the players was: 1 of the Complete each char, and 1 of the Races for each char, and 1 of the setting books for each character (we play Forgotten Realms).

Sums it up well I suppose... Sounds like a good compromise to me. You can rationalize three different sources fairly easily.

Where ya from?

Whose yer daddy (and mommy)?

Whats yer job?
20goingon1232
08-03-05, 11:45 PM I'd be more worried about things that don't take advantage of holes in the rules but are still likely to generate a power gulf between characters or frustration for the DM if they don't know how to handle it.
You mean like the Gatling Tripper?

My poor DM still don't really know how to handle the BARD in the party that is doing that (with a 2 level dip in Ftr and a 1 level dip in Brb). Especially since the punk maxxed out his UMD.

I suggested a fixated dragon.....
Caelic
08-03-05, 11:52 PM I'd say that, ultimately, it's up to you as the DM. Frankly, though, one Complete book plus one Race book plus one campaign book isn't much of a limitation. You can recreate pretty much any of the "classic" broken builds within those strictures.
allenchan
08-04-05, 12:07 AM I vote for common sense being the rule here.
haferka
08-04-05, 03:05 AM If you want to limit the diversity of the characters choices without limiting the available sources.. Use a system similar to the Eberron/Forgotten Realms system.

Gain access to 1 feat/spell every level. every 4th level you gain either a feat/spell or prestige class. you can gain access early on without actually meeting the prerequisites for the item you want to gain access to.

And of course give them access to any of the SRD material.
Vaelan
08-04-05, 05:27 AM I'm not trying to limit my players here, I'm trying to cut down on how much I spend on books!
Tell them that you have to review every feat, spell, or class they want to take that isn't from a core rulebook. If they want it and you don't have it, they must provide it.
Rocco
08-04-05, 09:30 AM Ask your players to explain what they exactly are able to do with their build in later levels.
In our campaigns, every character build (up to level 20) is posted online for each and everyone's examination.
In the current setting, we (the players) are allowed up to two core classes (three if absolutely neccessary) and two prestige classes (the second only after the completion of the first one) with the restriction that we may only use one book + SRD for the character. One feat from the complete series or 1 race from another book is in addition to that.
Pretty restrictive? No, just okay.
AviLazar
08-04-05, 09:55 AM Thats no good... just make your players OWN the books they wanna use... if they wanna have something from CW, CD, BoED, CAdv, and CA in there character then those players better own those books and bring those books to the table... they are all reference really... you just need to look at rules in them real quick and pass them back

Thats no good as it favors the players who have more disposable income (read: richer, or less responsibilities). It also favors book sales.

How about, you can only use the book the group owns.

If you are worried about a PC going hog wild, then just tell them all builds are subject to your purview before being accepted.

Maybe limit the game to core books and complete books (this seems to be fairly common). If you are in a specific campaign (eberron, FR) then obviously include those books.
Mommy was an Orc
08-04-05, 10:27 AM Heck, you can even do some of the more broken builds with just one book.

I think the general best way to do it is ask them what they plan to use and post it on the CO board here saying, "Does anything seem broken here?"
Karlcullinane
08-04-05, 11:14 AM I can understand the desire to limit your own spending on resources for playing or GMing, my group (now going on 12 years of gaming together) works quite well together, several of us have ample cash to get most, if not all, of the books we want or need, but we still limit ourselves simply because not all books interest us.
Several of our players are the hardcore optomizers and have been for quite some time; to help tone down these players and to keep them from really outshining the other players we limit it to 2 base classes, one of which has to be "core" from the basic book (UA variants ok here), and one prestige class until you finish it.
TBH, most of the CO Board DM nightmare characters (Chain Tripper, Hulking Hurler, Cheater of Mystra, Radiant Warmage, et al) arent viable builds until mid teens anyway, so artificial limits arent necessarily needed, just impose a rule that says that your players must ASK before they assume they can take a PrC, and enforce any and all RP aspects that are needed to gain access to the class.
If nothing else, it leads to some good RPing :)
haferka
08-04-05, 02:26 PM Thats no good as it favors the players who have more disposable income (read: richer, or less responsibilities). It also favors book sales.

How about, you can only use the book the group owns.

If you are worried about a PC going hog wild, then just tell them all builds are subject to your purview before being accepted.

Maybe limit the game to core books and complete books (this seems to be fairly common). If you are in a specific campaign (eberron, FR) then obviously include those books.

Don't limit the players simply based on what books they can afford. Force them to get together and share any books that they are using. And supply you (the DM) with a photo copy of the relevent material if you dont have it yourself. Personally, I would just download the relevent books on pdf and print those pages.. its easier than photocopying them. [DISCLAIMER: Fair Use will allow only the books owner to have a backup copy (electronic or otherwise), but official RPGA rulings state that your are required to have photocopies of the material when you play or the orginal book]

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
evilgenius 08-02-05, 06:19 PM	Hey all. I was wondering about allowing a "1 splatbook per character" maximum rule as an alternative to some of the other Character Optimizing limitations I see all the time - for instance, some DMs say "no PrCs at all", and others may say "PrCs are fine, but you have to finish them before another", and others limit the numbers you can have overall. I know that this is obviously abusable, but I'm not trying to limit my players here, I'm trying to cut down on how much I spend on books! So, what's the opinion on a 1 splatbook (or non-core source) rule? I don't want to end up spending loads of cash to keep up with players... I guess "the internet" could be considered a single source too. Is there a complete list of WoTC published PrCs online? It's a pain finding links to them all... Thanks!
Jolly Josh 08-02-05, 06:26 PM	Thats no good... just make your players OWN the books they wanna use... if they wanna have something from CW, CD, BoED, CAdv, and CA in there character then those players better own those books and bring those books to the table... they are all reference really... you just need to look at rules in them real quick and pass them back
stanfield 08-02-05, 06:39 PM	Honestlty I would recomend only the Complete series and core books be allowed. If you are running a specific campaign setting then I would suggest you allow those in also. The reason being is that these sources are generally extremely balanced and flexible to each players needs. If you are a bit more patient I would suggest allowing anything you approve by having players bring the book and a photocopy of the specific things they want in it for you to review. Another good rule of thumb is to allow max three base classes and two prestiege classes per character. In that this allows a great deal of versatility and is authentic to the realities of most characters. Ultimately though just be mindful of your needs, your players desires and where these two seperate but intertwined things intersect most comfortably for your play group. Hope that helps :D
amekaze 08-02-05, 06:39 PM	I'd suggest just asking the players to buy their own books, and then asking them if you could borrow the ones that they want to use so you can read them over the week or so before character creation and find things you like/don't like/think are exploitable. Honestly, though, I wouldn't worry about CO too much. Really abusive characters like the H.I.V.E. and cheater of mystra are more gags than anything else: funny to bring to a one-shot or as a joke on an overconfident DM, but not really something viable to play in a serious game, and are pretty easily picked up on and ruled against. I'd be more worried about things that don't take advantage of holes in the rules but are still likely to generate a power gulf between characters or frustration for the DM if they don't know how to handle it. If book limitation is really your thing, though, core plus BoED and the Complete X line are a good base and allow a lot of nice options.
evilgenius 08-03-05, 11:14 PM	Thanks for the replies. The counter offer from the players was: 1 of the Complete each char, and 1 of the Races for each char, and 1 of the setting books for each character (we play Forgotten Realms). Sums it up well I suppose... Sounds like a good compromise to me. You can rationalize three different sources fairly easily. Where ya from? Whose yer daddy (and mommy)? Whats yer job?
20goingon1232 08-03-05, 11:45 PM	I'd be more worried about things that don't take advantage of holes in the rules but are still likely to generate a power gulf between characters or frustration for the DM if they don't know how to handle it. You mean like the Gatling Tripper? My poor DM still don't really know how to handle the BARD in the party that is doing that (with a 2 level dip in Ftr and a 1 level dip in Brb). Especially since the punk maxxed out his UMD. I suggested a fixated dragon.....
Caelic 08-03-05, 11:52 PM	I'd say that, ultimately, it's up to you as the DM. Frankly, though, one Complete book plus one Race book plus one campaign book isn't much of a limitation. You can recreate pretty much any of the "classic" broken builds within those strictures.
allenchan 08-04-05, 12:07 AM	I vote for common sense being the rule here.
haferka 08-04-05, 03:05 AM	If you want to limit the diversity of the characters choices without limiting the available sources.. Use a system similar to the Eberron/Forgotten Realms system. Gain access to 1 feat/spell every level. every 4th level you gain either a feat/spell or prestige class. you can gain access early on without actually meeting the prerequisites for the item you want to gain access to. And of course give them access to any of the SRD material.
Vaelan 08-04-05, 05:27 AM	I'm not trying to limit my players here, I'm trying to cut down on how much I spend on books! Tell them that you have to review every feat, spell, or class they want to take that isn't from a core rulebook. If they want it and you don't have it, they must provide it.
Rocco 08-04-05, 09:30 AM	Ask your players to explain what they exactly are able to do with their build in later levels. In our campaigns, every character build (up to level 20) is posted online for each and everyone's examination. In the current setting, we (the players) are allowed up to two core classes (three if absolutely neccessary) and two prestige classes (the second only after the completion of the first one) with the restriction that we may only use one book + SRD for the character. One feat from the complete series or 1 race from another book is in addition to that. Pretty restrictive? No, just okay.
AviLazar 08-04-05, 09:55 AM	Thats no good... just make your players OWN the books they wanna use... if they wanna have something from CW, CD, BoED, CAdv, and CA in there character then those players better own those books and bring those books to the table... they are all reference really... you just need to look at rules in them real quick and pass them back Thats no good as it favors the players who have more disposable income (read: richer, or less responsibilities). It also favors book sales. How about, you can only use the book the group owns. If you are worried about a PC going hog wild, then just tell them all builds are subject to your purview before being accepted. Maybe limit the game to core books and complete books (this seems to be fairly common). If you are in a specific campaign (eberron, FR) then obviously include those books.
Mommy was an Orc 08-04-05, 10:27 AM	Heck, you can even do some of the more broken builds with just one book. I think the general best way to do it is ask them what they plan to use and post it on the CO board here saying, "Does anything seem broken here?"
Karlcullinane 08-04-05, 11:14 AM	I can understand the desire to limit your own spending on resources for playing or GMing, my group (now going on 12 years of gaming together) works quite well together, several of us have ample cash to get most, if not all, of the books we want or need, but we still limit ourselves simply because not all books interest us. Several of our players are the hardcore optomizers and have been for quite some time; to help tone down these players and to keep them from really outshining the other players we limit it to 2 base classes, one of which has to be "core" from the basic book (UA variants ok here), and one prestige class until you finish it. TBH, most of the CO Board DM nightmare characters (Chain Tripper, Hulking Hurler, Cheater of Mystra, Radiant Warmage, et al) arent viable builds until mid teens anyway, so artificial limits arent necessarily needed, just impose a rule that says that your players must ASK before they assume they can take a PrC, and enforce any and all RP aspects that are needed to gain access to the class. If nothing else, it leads to some good RPing :)
haferka 08-04-05, 02:26 PM	Thats no good as it favors the players who have more disposable income (read: richer, or less responsibilities). It also favors book sales. How about, you can only use the book the group owns. If you are worried about a PC going hog wild, then just tell them all builds are subject to your purview before being accepted. Maybe limit the game to core books and complete books (this seems to be fairly common). If you are in a specific campaign (eberron, FR) then obviously include those books. Don't limit the players simply based on what books they can afford. Force them to get together and share any books that they are using. And supply you (the DM) with a photo copy of the relevent material if you dont have it yourself. Personally, I would just download the relevent books on pdf and print those pages.. its easier than photocopying them. [DISCLAIMER: Fair Use will allow only the books owner to have a backup copy (electronic or otherwise), but official RPGA rulings state that your are required to have photocopies of the material when you play or the orginal book]