101 neat optimizing tricks [Archive] - Wizards Community

101 neat optimizing tricks [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Telos_Savant
07-23-06, 07:03 PM hey i was thinking.... lots of people read all the differnt dnd books and when they see a PrC or feat or spell they put one together with another that makes a completly broken ability, and also all thedifferent things u see on the boards... so why not list there :P

1- A warforged taking 18 lvs of fighter then taking three lvs of reforged and having All your feats turned into epic feats or at least higher lv feats.

2- the cleric with diving metamagic and a bag full of nightsticks making one crazy turning cleric casting crazy high lv spells.

3- duskblade with the enlightend fist ability to make rays touch spells then making your touch spell infuse with ur full attack.

4- vow of poverty monk :P

5- using the corrupting touch tree from the ghostwalk campeign setting in cunjuntion with two wep fighting

(ps i am by no means a great optimizer, there are all things that i have seen heard, i just want to list them)
GM_TerraFire
07-23-06, 07:29 PM Sorry if this comes across as confrontational, that is not my intention.

6 - Read the C.O. Library sticky at the top of the board, as there you will find more of the information you'll need than in a short, one sentence hint.
SpartanMD
07-24-06, 05:43 PM I personally think it's a great idea!

Sort of like ask a simple question thread but "Give a quick optimization Tip".

Tip #6 +1 Mithril Twilight Chain Shirt gives no spell failure chance for gishes
Necromas
07-24-06, 06:18 PM Tip #7 Battle plate (not an exotic armor, so you dont need a feat for it) is essentially the same as full plate but gives +10 AC instead of +9, at the cost of having a 0 max dex bonus. Now your strength based gishes need 2 less points in dex to max out their armor class.
Scottbert
07-24-06, 06:42 PM 3- duskblade with the enlightend fist ability to make rays touch spells then making your touch spell infuse with ur full attack.

Enlightened Fist doesn't get this until 7th level, and to get into enlightened fist you need Monk stuff. That's at least one monk level, so you're giving up 8 levels of duskblade abilities (except for the spells) just to do this one trick... unless I'm missing something...
Gryftir
07-24-06, 07:52 PM It requires two feats that are bonus feats for monks, but can still be taken as regular feats.

Improved unarmed strike has no preqs, while Stunning fist requires Improved Unarmed strike, Dex and Wiz 13, and a bab of 8, all of which is attainable by a duskblade at level 9.
tsuyoshikentsu
07-24-06, 08:22 PM And, coincidentally, you leave Duskblade at 13. Works out nicely, doesn't it? :D
BobSutan
07-24-06, 08:24 PM Tip #8 Mithral Breastplate has no armor check penalty and is treated as Light Armor. Great for mobile/high dex fighters and battle casters.
Gryftir
07-24-06, 09:15 PM Tip#9 A Mithral Buckler costs 1015gp, has zero armor check penalty or arcane spell failure, and thus, even if nonproficent, takes no penalty. This makes it a good low level way to increase a wizards or sorceror's AC, and it is ready to be enchanted. With the right feats from the PHBII you can even make it count for touch AC.
Necromas
07-24-06, 11:15 PM Tip#9 A Mithral Buckler costs 1015gp, has zero armor check penalty or arcane spell failure, and thus, even if nonproficent, takes no penalty. This makes it a good low level way to increase a wizards or sorceror's AC, and it is ready to be enchanted. With the right feats from the PHBII you can even make it count for touch AC.

But the wizard has to spend feats on shield proficiency and then the PHBII feats to make it better.

As long as we're burning feats here, you could take shielded caster (races of stone) which makes it so your spells dont provoke AOOs if you have a shield, making casting defensively unneccessary. (and unlike casting defensively, a mage slayer cant still get an AOO on you)
Caliborn
07-24-06, 11:43 PM As long as we're burning feats here, you could take shielded caster (races of stone) which makes it so your spells dont provoke AOOs if you have a shield, making casting defensively unneccessary. (and unlike casting defensively, a mage slayer cant still get an AOO on you)

Actually, IIRC, you need at least a light shield to make use of Shielded Caster.
neth2
07-25-06, 12:58 AM tip #10 be an armored mage and take shield caster
Encard
07-25-06, 01:46 AM tip #10 be an armored mage and take shield caster
Aside from not taking AoOs from Mage Slayer, what's the benefit of this (for characters who can use at least a light shield, of course)? Casting defensively is quite reliable by the mid levels, from what I can tell. Am I missing something?
DavidWL
07-25-06, 02:11 AM Well, one trick is using overpowered material. The many-fanged dagger, the Sharn, the Incantrix, the polymorph-like spells, etc.

However, while it might be a useful compilation, it isn't really as interesting as more intricate tricks.
Necromas
07-25-06, 03:12 AM Aside from not taking AoOs from Mage Slayer, what's the benefit of this (for characters who can use at least a light shield, of course)? Casting defensively is quite reliable by the mid levels, from what I can tell. Am I missing something?

Skill points for something else?
Encard
07-25-06, 03:30 AM Eh... Combat Casting is a +4 to concentration checks for casting defensively. Shielded Casting makes you not take AoO's from casting defensively, but how much that means given how easy casting defensively is, I'm not certain.

If it's a choice between 4 skill points and 2 feats, I don't think there are many people who'd take the skill points. Heck, you could, if you wanted to, take two Skill Focus feats instead of Combat Casting/Shielded Casting and save a couple extra points.

That is, unless I'm missing something about Shielded Casting?
Necromas
07-25-06, 03:38 AM Eh... Combat Casting is a +4 to concentration checks for casting defensively. Shielded Casting makes you not take AoO's from casting defensively, but how much that means given how easy casting defensively is, I'm not certain.

If it's a choice between 4 skill points and 2 feats, I don't think there are many people who'd take the skill points. Heck, you could, if you wanted to, take two Skill Focus feats instead of Combat Casting/Shielded Casting and save a couple extra points.

That is, unless I'm missing something about Shielded Casting?

I meant you'd need no ranks in concentration at all, shielded casting means your spells donnt provoke AOOs, so you dont even need to cast defensively, and thus dont need to put ranks in concentration. And the only reason I suggested it was to mock the other guy for dumping feats that could be spent on gishyness to get a shield. The only real benefit of shielded casting is to fight mage slayers.
Muspelheim
07-25-06, 05:39 AM The point with the mithral buckler is that since it has no ACP or ASF it doesn't matter if you are proficient with it or not ...
JaronK
07-25-06, 05:49 AM 11: Shadowcraft Mage + Silent Image + Heighten Spell + Anything that makes Heighten Spell better. Woo.

12: Swashbuckler 3 in any int based melee build. Woo.

13: BeguilerX/Spelltheif1/Scarlet Corsair 1. Loses two casting levels, but you get Improved Fient and the ability to steal first level spells, which adds a good bit of melee punch and low level flexibility.

14: Familiar + Storing a charge + any heal spell you can cast. UMD cure spells work well here, as does any other trick you can think of to cast a small heal. Even making a little familiar armour with a pocket for a heal potion can be great for getting you out of a tight spot.

15: Familiar + any touch spell. Store the charge, use as needed.

JaronK
Naramyth
07-25-06, 12:36 PM 15ish: if you have someone using a tower shield in full cover mode advance on an opponent that has reach, you can negate the reach AoOs via cover.

example ASCII diagram following!

O=Opponent with reach (large), T= tower shield guy, P=Party members, X= threatened area, C= covered area that does not provoke AoO

XXXXXX
XXXXXX
XXOOXX
XXOOXX
XXXXXX
XXXXXX
T
PPP

XXXXXX
XXXXXX
XXOOXX
XXOOXX
XXXTXX
XXXCXX
PPP

XXXXXX
XXXXXX
XXOOXX
XXOOXX
XXPTPX
XCCPCC

XXXXXX
XXXXXX
XXOOXX
XXOOXX
XPPTPX
CCCCCC

Once the tower shield guy has breached the AoO area, other party members can filter in behind him. and step into threatened areas. The party members then also provide cover for the other members advancing through "the breach."

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Telos_Savant 07-23-06, 07:03 PM	hey i was thinking.... lots of people read all the differnt dnd books and when they see a PrC or feat or spell they put one together with another that makes a completly broken ability, and also all thedifferent things u see on the boards... so why not list there :P 1- A warforged taking 18 lvs of fighter then taking three lvs of reforged and having All your feats turned into epic feats or at least higher lv feats. 2- the cleric with diving metamagic and a bag full of nightsticks making one crazy turning cleric casting crazy high lv spells. 3- duskblade with the enlightend fist ability to make rays touch spells then making your touch spell infuse with ur full attack. 4- vow of poverty monk :P 5- using the corrupting touch tree from the ghostwalk campeign setting in cunjuntion with two wep fighting (ps i am by no means a great optimizer, there are all things that i have seen heard, i just want to list them)
GM_TerraFire 07-23-06, 07:29 PM	Sorry if this comes across as confrontational, that is not my intention. 6 - Read the C.O. Library sticky at the top of the board, as there you will find more of the information you'll need than in a short, one sentence hint.
SpartanMD 07-24-06, 05:43 PM	I personally think it's a great idea! Sort of like ask a simple question thread but "Give a quick optimization Tip". Tip #6 +1 Mithril Twilight Chain Shirt gives no spell failure chance for gishes
Necromas 07-24-06, 06:18 PM	Tip #7 Battle plate (not an exotic armor, so you dont need a feat for it) is essentially the same as full plate but gives +10 AC instead of +9, at the cost of having a 0 max dex bonus. Now your strength based gishes need 2 less points in dex to max out their armor class.
Scottbert 07-24-06, 06:42 PM	3- duskblade with the enlightend fist ability to make rays touch spells then making your touch spell infuse with ur full attack. Enlightened Fist doesn't get this until 7th level, and to get into enlightened fist you need Monk stuff. That's at least one monk level, so you're giving up 8 levels of duskblade abilities (except for the spells) just to do this one trick... unless I'm missing something...
Gryftir 07-24-06, 07:52 PM	It requires two feats that are bonus feats for monks, but can still be taken as regular feats. Improved unarmed strike has no preqs, while Stunning fist requires Improved Unarmed strike, Dex and Wiz 13, and a bab of 8, all of which is attainable by a duskblade at level 9.
tsuyoshikentsu 07-24-06, 08:22 PM	And, coincidentally, you leave Duskblade at 13. Works out nicely, doesn't it? :D
BobSutan 07-24-06, 08:24 PM	Tip #8 Mithral Breastplate has no armor check penalty and is treated as Light Armor. Great for mobile/high dex fighters and battle casters.
Gryftir 07-24-06, 09:15 PM	Tip#9 A Mithral Buckler costs 1015gp, has zero armor check penalty or arcane spell failure, and thus, even if nonproficent, takes no penalty. This makes it a good low level way to increase a wizards or sorceror's AC, and it is ready to be enchanted. With the right feats from the PHBII you can even make it count for touch AC.
Necromas 07-24-06, 11:15 PM	Tip#9 A Mithral Buckler costs 1015gp, has zero armor check penalty or arcane spell failure, and thus, even if nonproficent, takes no penalty. This makes it a good low level way to increase a wizards or sorceror's AC, and it is ready to be enchanted. With the right feats from the PHBII you can even make it count for touch AC. But the wizard has to spend feats on shield proficiency and then the PHBII feats to make it better. As long as we're burning feats here, you could take shielded caster (races of stone) which makes it so your spells dont provoke AOOs if you have a shield, making casting defensively unneccessary. (and unlike casting defensively, a mage slayer cant still get an AOO on you)
Caliborn 07-24-06, 11:43 PM	As long as we're burning feats here, you could take shielded caster (races of stone) which makes it so your spells dont provoke AOOs if you have a shield, making casting defensively unneccessary. (and unlike casting defensively, a mage slayer cant still get an AOO on you) Actually, IIRC, you need at least a light shield to make use of Shielded Caster.
neth2 07-25-06, 12:58 AM	tip #10 be an armored mage and take shield caster
Encard 07-25-06, 01:46 AM	tip #10 be an armored mage and take shield caster Aside from not taking AoOs from Mage Slayer, what's the benefit of this (for characters who can use at least a light shield, of course)? Casting defensively is quite reliable by the mid levels, from what I can tell. Am I missing something?
DavidWL 07-25-06, 02:11 AM	Well, one trick is using overpowered material. The many-fanged dagger, the Sharn, the Incantrix, the polymorph-like spells, etc. However, while it might be a useful compilation, it isn't really as interesting as more intricate tricks.
Necromas 07-25-06, 03:12 AM	Aside from not taking AoOs from Mage Slayer, what's the benefit of this (for characters who can use at least a light shield, of course)? Casting defensively is quite reliable by the mid levels, from what I can tell. Am I missing something? Skill points for something else?
Encard 07-25-06, 03:30 AM	Eh... Combat Casting is a +4 to concentration checks for casting defensively. Shielded Casting makes you not take AoO's from casting defensively, but how much that means given how easy casting defensively is, I'm not certain. If it's a choice between 4 skill points and 2 feats, I don't think there are many people who'd take the skill points. Heck, you could, if you wanted to, take two Skill Focus feats instead of Combat Casting/Shielded Casting and save a couple extra points. That is, unless I'm missing something about Shielded Casting?
Necromas 07-25-06, 03:38 AM	Eh... Combat Casting is a +4 to concentration checks for casting defensively. Shielded Casting makes you not take AoO's from casting defensively, but how much that means given how easy casting defensively is, I'm not certain. If it's a choice between 4 skill points and 2 feats, I don't think there are many people who'd take the skill points. Heck, you could, if you wanted to, take two Skill Focus feats instead of Combat Casting/Shielded Casting and save a couple extra points. That is, unless I'm missing something about Shielded Casting? I meant you'd need no ranks in concentration at all, shielded casting means your spells donnt provoke AOOs, so you dont even need to cast defensively, and thus dont need to put ranks in concentration. And the only reason I suggested it was to mock the other guy for dumping feats that could be spent on gishyness to get a shield. The only real benefit of shielded casting is to fight mage slayers.
Muspelheim 07-25-06, 05:39 AM	The point with the mithral buckler is that since it has no ACP or ASF it doesn't matter if you are proficient with it or not ...
JaronK 07-25-06, 05:49 AM	11: Shadowcraft Mage + Silent Image + Heighten Spell + Anything that makes Heighten Spell better. Woo. 12: Swashbuckler 3 in any int based melee build. Woo. 13: BeguilerX/Spelltheif1/Scarlet Corsair 1. Loses two casting levels, but you get Improved Fient and the ability to steal first level spells, which adds a good bit of melee punch and low level flexibility. 14: Familiar + Storing a charge + any heal spell you can cast. UMD cure spells work well here, as does any other trick you can think of to cast a small heal. Even making a little familiar armour with a pocket for a heal potion can be great for getting you out of a tight spot. 15: Familiar + any touch spell. Store the charge, use as needed. JaronK
Naramyth 07-25-06, 12:36 PM	15ish: if you have someone using a tower shield in full cover mode advance on an opponent that has reach, you can negate the reach AoOs via cover. example ASCII diagram following! O=Opponent with reach (large), T= tower shield guy, P=Party members, X= threatened area, C= covered area that does not provoke AoO XXXXXX XXXXXX XXOOXX XXOOXX XXXXXX XXXXXX T PPP XXXXXX XXXXXX XXOOXX XXOOXX XXXTXX XXXCXX PPP XXXXXX XXXXXX XXOOXX XXOOXX XXPTPX XCCPCC XXXXXX XXXXXX XXOOXX XXOOXX XPPTPX CCCCCC Once the tower shield guy has breached the AoO area, other party members can filter in behind him. and step into threatened areas. The party members then also provide cover for the other members advancing through "the breach."