10th Level Master of Many Forms, advice needed [Archive] - Wizards Community

10th Level Master of Many Forms, advice needed [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
BarbeChenue
02-11-06, 06:14 PM Next Wednesday I'm playing in a semi-futuristic game set in a post-apocalyptic world where technology has been lost. We will be using the D&D rule set all over, but some stuff from d20 Modern/Future will be added by the DM as he sees fit. I like the idea of using guns and other, more futuristic, weapons.

For this game I want to play a very versatile character who can fill several purposes in different situation without being a spellcaster. This, allied with my passion for shapeshifters, strongly influenced me to choose a Master of Many Forms build. Now, I've read the MoMF Bible/FAQ through several times over, and I am pretty comfortable in my abilities to play this character well, but I'd like to ask for advice from more experienced players before I choose the race, the items, and the feats.

My current plan is to go with the Wild Shaping Ranger variant (UA) for 5 levels and then enter MoMF. I'm not going to use Divine Minion for this build, as I don't want to enter a gray area with my charater.

Here's the relevant info:

Race and Class(es): I don't know the race yet, but the classes will be: WS Ranger 5/MoMF 5 (MoMF until level 7 or 10, followed by Warshaper or Nature's warrior). The game is unlikely to reach a very high level, so I'm looking at short term playability.

Ability Scores: Point buy 32.

Level to build at: I start play with enough XP to make me level 10.

Concept: I want to be able to take several forms that are suited for each battle. My favored form would be Wartroll (at level 12) for Dazing Blow and Regeneration 9/acid as well as other niceties.

Details: Until I reach 12th level, I think I'll mostly be in Cave Troll form (a form that has a high focus on natural weapons). With pounce, rend, dazing blow, rake and improved grab, I think I'd be quite an able combattant. But I'd like to know if there are better melee forms to take before level 12, because I don't quite like switching focus from Natural Weapons to Manufactured Weapons like that, since it makes little sense to carry a big weapon and not use it, but then start using it all of a sudden a few days later when reaching level 12. I'd prefer to use Manufactured Weapons all along, and I need a good form for that.

When I reach level 12, I want to use Dazing blow as much as possible. That means high Con to boost the save DC and as many attacks as possible each round (high chance to daze my foes). The good thing about daze effects is that almost nothing has resistances to it (it's not like stun or paralysis), and it's extremely convenient to be able to be able to incapacitate your foes from the safety of your Regeneration 9/Acid, DR 5/Adamantine and SR 20.

I don't think I'll reach a high enough level to see the Wartroll form become obsolete.

Relevant House Rules:
Some variant classes are available.

Fractionnal BAB and Saves.

Books: All WotC Core and Splat books. No Dragon material. Unearthed Arcana is sometimes used (like for the Wild Shaping Ranger variant class).

About the DM: The DM knows the rules less than I do, but he trusts that I won't wreck his game (the main reason why I'm not using Divine Minion here). He enjoys combat, and we get to see quite a few of those encounters each game, and he usually prepares his game in advance too.

Optionnal Campaign Info: We are in the future and the world has been torn appart by a race of aliens (our primary foes). As a result, the technological progress level of the world has regressed to something akin to middle age. We are survivors who try to free the people of earth from the clutches of the alien race. These aliens control the will of the people through psychic beacons scattered accross the land. On our way we will be fighting in four different zones: elven lands, dwarven lands, a fiery volcanic region and northern arctic wastes. Along the way we will likely find balistic weapons from the modern world, before the coming of the aliens.
BarbeChenue
02-11-06, 10:31 PM :bump:
deathwishjoe
02-12-06, 07:03 AM well the default race for any build should be human unless you plant on taking a PrC thats races specific. that extra feat and skill point is just awsome. but a PrC 2 level dip into deepwarden works really nice with MoMF and it requires that you be a dwarf. deepwarden can be found in races of stone. if that doesnt sound like something your interested in then by all means go human.

as far as feats go theres a feat in frostburn that allows you to change into magical beast with the cold subtype. hello cryohydra!. assume supernatural ability: breath weapon is also nice. I've been tinkering with the idea of using metabreath feats to make the hydras breath even more effective. also dont forget a few level dips into warshaper for some nice abilities. well thats all thats coming to mind and thats not too broken.
BarbeChenue
02-13-06, 11:32 AM well the default race for any build should be human unless you plant on taking a PrC thats races specific. that extra feat and skill point is just awsome. but a PrC 2 level dip into deepwarden works really nice with MoMF and it requires that you be a dwarf. deepwarden can be found in races of stone. if that doesnt sound like something your interested in then by all means go human.

as far as feats go theres a feat in frostburn that allows you to change into magical beast with the cold subtype. hello cryohydra!. assume supernatural ability: breath weapon is also nice. I've been tinkering with the idea of using metabreath feats to make the hydras breath even more effective. also dont forget a few level dips into warshaper for some nice abilities. well thats all thats coming to mind and thats not too broken.

Humans are no longer a good race for Master of Many Forms due to the fact they lose their bonus skills points and feat when they change form.

I'll look into your suggestions although I'm not really focussing into that aspect of the MoMF. :) As stated above I'm looking at the Troll shapes more, unless there are more melee oriented ones out there (by melee oriented I mean big, strong, tough, two-handed weapon wielders).

I'm finished wih the item list, and unless VoP gives me more benefits (which I'll be sure to check), I'll go with these:

+1 Sizing Greatsword (8350 gp)
+1 Beastskin Mithral Breastplate (13200 gp)
Harness of Con +3* (9000 gp)
Belt of Str +3* (9000 gp)
Ring of Protection +1 (2000 gp)
Ring of Luck bonus to AC +1 (2500 gp)
Amulet of Insight bonus to AC +1 (2500 gp)
Bracer of Natural Armor +1 (2000 gp)

Rough Total: +10 AC, +3 Con, +3 Str, +1 Attack

*: I went with the +3 bonus instead of +2 or +4 because it is both cheaper, and because trolls all have odd ability scores to STR and CON.

As for the race, I'm looking for either a Killoren or Changeling. Feats is what I'm not too sure about.
ming_the_meaningless
02-14-06, 12:08 AM There are a number of mechanics you need to confirm with your DM regarding the best way to cause carnage with a Master of Many Forms.

1. Can you use the Amulet of Wildshaping from magic of Faerun? Wildshaping as a Druid 4 levels higher is always nice.
2. Can you use HD advanced monster forms? A lot of stat joy comes from the rules on gaining size due to HD advances. Specifically, see Octopus Tree.
3. How does the Assume Supernatural Ability work for your DM? If it's "floating" in that it allows you to choose one supernatural ability of the form you assume, I would suggest beholder/beholderkin forms. For Beholders and beholderkin, all the eye rays are considered a single supernatural ability.

If all you want is a way to get into a huge bipedal form, I wouldn't bother taking MoMF to 10th level. A HD advanced overseer beholderkin is a truly terrifying thing for a DM to face, even without the eye rays supernatural ability.
Rokku
02-14-06, 12:21 AM Changeling and Shifter are both excellent options for MoMF races, as stated in the Master of Many Forms Bible (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=363632). Both have some killer racial feats, and which one you pick really depends on what you want -- Changeling lets you walk around in Cave Troll form while looking like an average joe, and provides other social and sneaky advantages, while Shifter adds another layer of combat murderdeathkilliness. Both have great racial feats and neat prestige classes (If you have access to Races of Eberron) you can enter if the game goes long enough for you to finish MoMF and Warshaiper just seems too gauche for ya.
BarbeChenue
02-14-06, 01:00 AM 1. Can you use the Amulet of Wildshaping from magic of Faerun? Wildshaping as a Druid 4 levels higher is always nice.
2. Can you use HD advanced monster forms? A lot of stat joy comes from the rules on gaining size due to HD advances. Specifically, see Octopus Tree.
3. How does the Assume Supernatural Ability work for your DM? If it's "floating" in that it allows you to choose one supernatural ability of the form you assume, I would suggest beholder/beholderkin forms. For Beholders and beholderkin, all the eye rays are considered a single supernatural ability.

1. Yes. But since I have 49 K of gold, it would take up 80 % of my cash, which could be spent on improving the forms I can take. I'm still contemplating this option.

2. Yes. The FAQ says you can, therefore we can. For the same reason, humans give a free bonus feat (it's now considered an Extraordinary Special Quality), but it's not my goal to abuse that.

3. I'm not going to use that feat. I have been an advocate of banning Shapechange for all the games I play in or DM, and I've made my case so well that it would be highly ironic that I abuse this feat.

Rokku: If I wasn' such a big fan of Immortality, I'd pick Changeling right there. It's a flavorful, mechanically sound, thematically right and original race, but the Killoren is immortal and also fits somewhat. There is something interesting in a MoMF who can live forever and can shapeshift into almost anything that walks under the sun.

I haven't really looked at Shifter though. Perhaps it would be work a look. :)

Thanks for your replies everyone!

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
BarbeChenue 02-11-06, 06:14 PM	Next Wednesday I'm playing in a semi-futuristic game set in a post-apocalyptic world where technology has been lost. We will be using the D&D rule set all over, but some stuff from d20 Modern/Future will be added by the DM as he sees fit. I like the idea of using guns and other, more futuristic, weapons. For this game I want to play a very versatile character who can fill several purposes in different situation without being a spellcaster. This, allied with my passion for shapeshifters, strongly influenced me to choose a Master of Many Forms build. Now, I've read the MoMF Bible/FAQ through several times over, and I am pretty comfortable in my abilities to play this character well, but I'd like to ask for advice from more experienced players before I choose the race, the items, and the feats. My current plan is to go with the Wild Shaping Ranger variant (UA) for 5 levels and then enter MoMF. I'm not going to use Divine Minion for this build, as I don't want to enter a gray area with my charater. Here's the relevant info: Race and Class(es): I don't know the race yet, but the classes will be: WS Ranger 5/MoMF 5 (MoMF until level 7 or 10, followed by Warshaper or Nature's warrior). The game is unlikely to reach a very high level, so I'm looking at short term playability. Ability Scores: Point buy 32. Level to build at: I start play with enough XP to make me level 10. Concept: I want to be able to take several forms that are suited for each battle. My favored form would be Wartroll (at level 12) for Dazing Blow and Regeneration 9/acid as well as other niceties. Details: Until I reach 12th level, I think I'll mostly be in Cave Troll form (a form that has a high focus on natural weapons). With pounce, rend, dazing blow, rake and improved grab, I think I'd be quite an able combattant. But I'd like to know if there are better melee forms to take before level 12, because I don't quite like switching focus from Natural Weapons to Manufactured Weapons like that, since it makes little sense to carry a big weapon and not use it, but then start using it all of a sudden a few days later when reaching level 12. I'd prefer to use Manufactured Weapons all along, and I need a good form for that. When I reach level 12, I want to use Dazing blow as much as possible. That means high Con to boost the save DC and as many attacks as possible each round (high chance to daze my foes). The good thing about daze effects is that almost nothing has resistances to it (it's not like stun or paralysis), and it's extremely convenient to be able to be able to incapacitate your foes from the safety of your Regeneration 9/Acid, DR 5/Adamantine and SR 20. I don't think I'll reach a high enough level to see the Wartroll form become obsolete. Relevant House Rules: Some variant classes are available. Fractionnal BAB and Saves. Books: All WotC Core and Splat books. No Dragon material. Unearthed Arcana is sometimes used (like for the Wild Shaping Ranger variant class). About the DM: The DM knows the rules less than I do, but he trusts that I won't wreck his game (the main reason why I'm not using Divine Minion here). He enjoys combat, and we get to see quite a few of those encounters each game, and he usually prepares his game in advance too. Optionnal Campaign Info: We are in the future and the world has been torn appart by a race of aliens (our primary foes). As a result, the technological progress level of the world has regressed to something akin to middle age. We are survivors who try to free the people of earth from the clutches of the alien race. These aliens control the will of the people through psychic beacons scattered accross the land. On our way we will be fighting in four different zones: elven lands, dwarven lands, a fiery volcanic region and northern arctic wastes. Along the way we will likely find balistic weapons from the modern world, before the coming of the aliens.
BarbeChenue 02-11-06, 10:31 PM	:bump:
deathwishjoe 02-12-06, 07:03 AM	well the default race for any build should be human unless you plant on taking a PrC thats races specific. that extra feat and skill point is just awsome. but a PrC 2 level dip into deepwarden works really nice with MoMF and it requires that you be a dwarf. deepwarden can be found in races of stone. if that doesnt sound like something your interested in then by all means go human. as far as feats go theres a feat in frostburn that allows you to change into magical beast with the cold subtype. hello cryohydra!. assume supernatural ability: breath weapon is also nice. I've been tinkering with the idea of using metabreath feats to make the hydras breath even more effective. also dont forget a few level dips into warshaper for some nice abilities. well thats all thats coming to mind and thats not too broken.
BarbeChenue 02-13-06, 11:32 AM	well the default race for any build should be human unless you plant on taking a PrC thats races specific. that extra feat and skill point is just awsome. but a PrC 2 level dip into deepwarden works really nice with MoMF and it requires that you be a dwarf. deepwarden can be found in races of stone. if that doesnt sound like something your interested in then by all means go human. as far as feats go theres a feat in frostburn that allows you to change into magical beast with the cold subtype. hello cryohydra!. assume supernatural ability: breath weapon is also nice. I've been tinkering with the idea of using metabreath feats to make the hydras breath even more effective. also dont forget a few level dips into warshaper for some nice abilities. well thats all thats coming to mind and thats not too broken. Humans are no longer a good race for Master of Many Forms due to the fact they lose their bonus skills points and feat when they change form. I'll look into your suggestions although I'm not really focussing into that aspect of the MoMF. :) As stated above I'm looking at the Troll shapes more, unless there are more melee oriented ones out there (by melee oriented I mean big, strong, tough, two-handed weapon wielders). I'm finished wih the item list, and unless VoP gives me more benefits (which I'll be sure to check), I'll go with these: +1 Sizing Greatsword (8350 gp) +1 Beastskin Mithral Breastplate (13200 gp) Harness of Con +3* (9000 gp) Belt of Str +3* (9000 gp) Ring of Protection +1 (2000 gp) Ring of Luck bonus to AC +1 (2500 gp) Amulet of Insight bonus to AC +1 (2500 gp) Bracer of Natural Armor +1 (2000 gp) Rough Total: +10 AC, +3 Con, +3 Str, +1 Attack *: I went with the +3 bonus instead of +2 or +4 because it is both cheaper, and because trolls all have odd ability scores to STR and CON. As for the race, I'm looking for either a Killoren or Changeling. Feats is what I'm not too sure about.
ming_the_meaningless 02-14-06, 12:08 AM	There are a number of mechanics you need to confirm with your DM regarding the best way to cause carnage with a Master of Many Forms. 1. Can you use the Amulet of Wildshaping from magic of Faerun? Wildshaping as a Druid 4 levels higher is always nice. 2. Can you use HD advanced monster forms? A lot of stat joy comes from the rules on gaining size due to HD advances. Specifically, see Octopus Tree. 3. How does the Assume Supernatural Ability work for your DM? If it's "floating" in that it allows you to choose one supernatural ability of the form you assume, I would suggest beholder/beholderkin forms. For Beholders and beholderkin, all the eye rays are considered a single supernatural ability. If all you want is a way to get into a huge bipedal form, I wouldn't bother taking MoMF to 10th level. A HD advanced overseer beholderkin is a truly terrifying thing for a DM to face, even without the eye rays supernatural ability.
Rokku 02-14-06, 12:21 AM	Changeling and Shifter are both excellent options for MoMF races, as stated in the Master of Many Forms Bible (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=363632). Both have some killer racial feats, and which one you pick really depends on what you want -- Changeling lets you walk around in Cave Troll form while looking like an average joe, and provides other social and sneaky advantages, while Shifter adds another layer of combat murderdeathkilliness. Both have great racial feats and neat prestige classes (If you have access to Races of Eberron) you can enter if the game goes long enough for you to finish MoMF and Warshaiper just seems too gauche for ya.
BarbeChenue 02-14-06, 01:00 AM	1. Can you use the Amulet of Wildshaping from magic of Faerun? Wildshaping as a Druid 4 levels higher is always nice. 2. Can you use HD advanced monster forms? A lot of stat joy comes from the rules on gaining size due to HD advances. Specifically, see Octopus Tree. 3. How does the Assume Supernatural Ability work for your DM? If it's "floating" in that it allows you to choose one supernatural ability of the form you assume, I would suggest beholder/beholderkin forms. For Beholders and beholderkin, all the eye rays are considered a single supernatural ability. 1. Yes. But since I have 49 K of gold, it would take up 80 % of my cash, which could be spent on improving the forms I can take. I'm still contemplating this option. 2. Yes. The FAQ says you can, therefore we can. For the same reason, humans give a free bonus feat (it's now considered an Extraordinary Special Quality), but it's not my goal to abuse that. 3. I'm not going to use that feat. I have been an advocate of banning Shapechange for all the games I play in or DM, and I've made my case so well that it would be highly ironic that I abuse this feat. Rokku: If I wasn' such a big fan of Immortality, I'd pick Changeling right there. It's a flavorful, mechanically sound, thematically right and original race, but the Killoren is immortal and also fits somewhat. There is something interesting in a MoMF who can live forever and can shapeshift into almost anything that walks under the sun. I haven't really looked at Shifter though. Perhaps it would be work a look. :) Thanks for your replies everyone!