10th lvl Pole-arm using mobile fighter [Archive] - Wizards Community

10th lvl Pole-arm using mobile fighter [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
evilgenius
12-13-04, 01:22 AM Hey all. I am looking at creating a mobile martial type character who uses a pole-arm with reach. I figure that the best way to keep enemies from closing within close range of you is to be faster than them both in and out of combat (mounted and on foot).

This character must have the following characteristics;

1. 30 point buy for attributes.

2. Human, 10 character level build

3. Wields a Glaive as his primary weapon, with a falchion as his secondary weapon for close fighting, Kukri as a third (for emergencies) and has a bow of some sort probably somewhere on his horse. I am not 100% sure I will stick with the Glaive as a primary weapon. If there's a good slashing alternative with reach, I will go for it.

4. Rides a horse well, can use the Glaive mounted (Ride By Attack?). He uses it off the right side of the horse, making broad sweeping attacks as he passes across front lines of enemy infantry (think hedge-trimmer).

5. Is mobile on his feet. Wears light armour at the heaviest.

6. Has little or no spell casting ability.

7. Int should be better than average, charisma can be low.

8. He is unreliant on magic to be effective, as the campaign is in a low magic world.

Ultimately, he has the flavour and look that's somewhat "middle Eastern" or "Northwest Asian". He owns two slaves (enemies captured in battle), so Paladin is probably out as a class option unless the DM is particularly interpretive of "lawful good".

Naturally, I am thinking of a Fighter who eventually gets to the Dervish prestige class from Complete Warrior, but I also thought of the Cavalier... However, a lot of the Cavalier's abilities are focused on the Lance and Sword, not polearms, so I don't know if it's worthwhile or not.

Any suggestions on a build? What feats should I consider? Since I want to use a reach weapon, I am assuming Combat Reflexes would be good. There's just soooo many options...

Thus far I have:

1 Fighter 1 - (Feat: Cbt Expertise, Dodge, Mobility)
2 Ftr 2 - (Feat: Wpn Focus (??? Polearm))
3 Ftr 3 - (Feat: Mounted Combat)
4 Ftr 4 - (Feat: Wpn Spec (??? Polearm))
5 Ftr 5 -
6 Ftr 6 - (Feats: Cbt Reflexes, Ride By Attack)
7 Barbarian 1 - Rage, +10 move
8 Dervish 1 - Movement mastery, Dervish Dance 1/day
9 Dervish 2 - Fast move +5, (Feats: Imp Critical? Imp Trip? Power Attack?)
10 Dervish 3 - Spring Attack

I am not really happy with this build - Is trying to do mounted combat and melee trees at the same time too difficult? Any suggestions would be appreciated.

The books I have access to are:

PHB 3.5
DMG 3.5
Complete Warrior
Complete Divine
Complete Arcane
Races of Stone
Races of Destiny (when it comes out!)
Players Guide to Faerun

Thanks all,

evilgenius
Blade2718
12-13-04, 01:38 AM I think the guisarme is a good alternative. Some levels in Shou Disciple (from Unapproachable East) would help a lot, as it lets you flurry with any martial weapon, improved unarmed damage, and a bonus to Dodge.
fozzybear
12-13-04, 02:09 AM Hah, I didn't read your post
evilgenius
12-13-04, 04:20 PM I think the guisarme is a good alternative. Some levels in Shou Disciple (from Unapproachable East) would help a lot, as it lets you flurry with any martial weapon, improved unarmed damage, and a bonus to Dodge.

Sounds cool. I'll have to check it out... The Unapproachable East is in the Forgotten Realms series, right? That's perfect!

Any other suggestions?
HippieKiller
12-13-04, 04:31 PM personally I´d stay away from weapon focus/weapon spec, they´re ok feats but I think that it could be better if you get mounted combat or spring attack earlier. Having that said I don´t think that Fighter 6 or even 4 is necessary, just get fighter 2 and get monk or rogue or more level´s barbarian or even ranger. I would maybe look for a good ac combo in which you can use your high int and maybe wisdom (monk) for ac so you don´t have to wear armor.

Mageslayer is always a good feat for a pole-arm fighter (it´s from CA).

just my 2 cents
PhaedrusXY
12-13-04, 07:42 PM I'd suggest Swashbuckler3/monk2/ShouDisciple5 for a start, then maybe some levels of Duelist or something else. I think there is a feat called Kung Fu Genius from Dragon that adds your Int to AC, also. Take the 3rd level of monk if you really want the +10 to movement.
PhoenixInferno
12-13-04, 08:44 PM Kung Fu Genius lets you use Int instead of Wis for your Monk related abilities. Not just for Wis to AC purposes.
Todd
12-13-04, 09:30 PM I think the guisarme is a good alternative. Some levels in Shou Disciple (from Unapproachable East) would help a lot, as it lets you flurry with any martial weapon, improved unarmed damage, and a bonus to Dodge.

Yep Shou is the way to go.

My suggestion:

Barbarian-2 / Fighter-2 / Ranger-1 / Shou-5 / Dervish-10

In your case the Barbarian's movement would probably be better than the Monks & two levels gives you Rage & Uncanny Dodge to play with. Fighter-2 for the feats. Ranger-1 for the free tracking. Shou for some unarmed damage and martial flurry.

As an alternative you could do:

Barbarian-1 / Fighter-4 / Shou-5 / Dervish-10 with nearly the same results but with a bit more focus.
PhaedrusXY
12-13-04, 10:14 PM Kung Fu Genius lets you use Int instead of Wis for your Monk related abilities. Not just for Wis to AC purposes.Are there any prereqs for it? I don't own that particular dragon.
evilgenius
12-13-04, 11:34 PM personally I´d stay away from weapon focus/weapon spec, they´re ok feats but I think that it could be better if you get mounted combat or spring attack earlier. Having that said I don´t think that Fighter 6 or even 4 is necessary, just get fighter 2 and get monk or rogue or more level´s barbarian or even ranger. I would maybe look for a good ac combo in which you can use your high int and maybe wisdom (monk) for ac so you don´t have to wear armor.

Mageslayer is always a good feat for a pole-arm fighter (it´s from CA).

just my 2 cents

Cool. Wpn Focus is necessary for the Dervish class - though I am by no means attached to the class...

But I agree that Wpn Spec might be less than ideal - particularly when I would be changing weapons at different fighting ranges, it's effective only half of the time or less.

I'm diggin the Occult slayer - It's a decent class, and it works best with the Kensai though, with the whole "must use this one weapon" restriction. It's almost like they were made for each other. For this concept however, I don't see it, since he'll need a second weapon for close in fighting.

As an alternative you could do:

Barbarian-1 / Fighter-4 / Shou-5 / Dervish-10 with nearly the same results but with a bit more focus.

I am diggin this build - Bar 1, Ftr 4, XXX 5 and ultimately Dervish 10. I don't have access to Unapproachable East yet, but I'll give it a look.

I would want the Barbarian level is only for fast movement - Rage can't be used with the Dervish Dance. But, it's cheaper than three levels of monk.

However, the advantage of Monk is that he wouldn't need to use a second weapon for close in fighting, and would get Combat Reflexes for free.

Good stuff to think about all. Thanks!

L8er
evilgenius
PhaedrusXY
12-14-04, 12:15 AM I would want the Barbarian level is only for fast movement - Rage can't be used with the Dervish Dance. But, it's cheaper than three levels of monk.

However, the advantage of Monk is that he wouldn't need to use a second weapon for close in fighting, and would get Combat Reflexes for free.

Good stuff to think about all. Thanks!

L8er
evilgeniusWhat do you mean by cheaper? That you lose a point of BAB with monk? Monk also lets you qualify for Shou Disciple easier. And Shou Disciple has full base attack progression, two bonus feats, and will increase your unarmed damage to 2d6. Along with giving you the ability to make a flurry of blows with any martial weapon. And it's only a 5 level Prestige Class. It is almost ideal for a polearm fighter, in my opinion.
PhoenixInferno
12-14-04, 12:46 AM Kung Fu Genius is in Dragon 319. Needs an INT of 13+ and must be taken at or before your first monk level.
evilgenius
12-14-04, 08:26 PM What do you mean by cheaper? That you lose a point of BAB with monk? Monk also lets you qualify for Shou Disciple easier. And Shou Disciple has full base attack progression, two bonus feats, and will increase your unarmed damage to 2d6. Along with giving you the ability to make a flurry of blows with any martial weapon. And it's only a 5 level Prestige Class. It is almost ideal for a polearm fighter, in my opinion.

Good point. I went to the game store today and took a look at Unapproachable East and took a looksie at the the Shou Disciple.

I am certainly convinced on the applicability of the class. The requirements are the killer (Imp Unarmed Strike and Wpn Focus Imp Unarmed Strike), and you're right - they are much easier met with the Monk.

I ended up buying the book by the way. Good stuff in there. I'll post a possible build when I get it done.

L8er
evilgenius
HippieKiller
12-20-04, 11:12 AM a Quick bump cuz I´m also currently thinking of a mobile pole-arm fighter build :)
acvar
12-20-04, 12:35 PM monk 3/fighter 2/SD 5/dervish 10.

Use a guisarme instead of a glave for the tripping ability. Dance around your opponets, and trip them to keep them at a distance, that way you may never need to use anything other then your reach weapon. You sould definatly get mage slayer and maybe even the rest of the feat chain.
mvincent
12-20-04, 01:14 PM Two quick suggestions:
- Take the level in Barbarian as your first level (to get the extra hp and skill points).

- Take spirited charge (for double damage with the pole-arm). Power attack also synergizes well with that.
HippieKiller
12-20-04, 01:42 PM Does anybody have any idea about maybe trading the paladin for SD lvl´s for the mount and roleplay/flavor???
PhaedrusXY
12-20-04, 01:50 PM Does anybody have any idea about maybe trading the paladin for SD lvl´s for the mount and roleplay/flavor???Can you multiclass freely with Palladin? Or does your DM follow the restrictions on it? If you can multiclass freely, I'd go Palladin2/Monk3/Shou5 (or Pal3/Monk2/Shou5) then go back to Palladin. Shou is too good to give up, in my opinion. But then again... it is one of my favorite prestige classes.
Khazra Reborn
12-20-04, 02:06 PM If you can track down the sword & fist 3.0 book, the duom is one of the best reach weapons because you can attack adjacent foes, the only other reach weapon that can do that is the spiked chain (which i have grown to hat & find boring).
argorond
12-20-04, 02:10 PM taking paladin starts to make it bit mad about stats, with good rolls np but with pointbuy ... ? =)
Tony Vargas
12-20-04, 02:59 PM If barbarian fits the character, you might want to take it at 1st. Not only does it just make more sense to start out as a barbarian, then go to more 'civilized' classes, it also gives you more skill points and a couple more hps, and it doesn't seem like it's critical to the build to get bonus feats in extra-early.

Weapon focus and specialization might be worth getting eventually, but, with everything you want to do, completing other trees first may be better.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
evilgenius 12-13-04, 01:22 AM	Hey all. I am looking at creating a mobile martial type character who uses a pole-arm with reach. I figure that the best way to keep enemies from closing within close range of you is to be faster than them both in and out of combat (mounted and on foot). This character must have the following characteristics; 1. 30 point buy for attributes. 2. Human, 10 character level build 3. Wields a Glaive as his primary weapon, with a falchion as his secondary weapon for close fighting, Kukri as a third (for emergencies) and has a bow of some sort probably somewhere on his horse. I am not 100% sure I will stick with the Glaive as a primary weapon. If there's a good slashing alternative with reach, I will go for it. 4. Rides a horse well, can use the Glaive mounted (Ride By Attack?). He uses it off the right side of the horse, making broad sweeping attacks as he passes across front lines of enemy infantry (think hedge-trimmer). 5. Is mobile on his feet. Wears light armour at the heaviest. 6. Has little or no spell casting ability. 7. Int should be better than average, charisma can be low. 8. He is unreliant on magic to be effective, as the campaign is in a low magic world. Ultimately, he has the flavour and look that's somewhat "middle Eastern" or "Northwest Asian". He owns two slaves (enemies captured in battle), so Paladin is probably out as a class option unless the DM is particularly interpretive of "lawful good". Naturally, I am thinking of a Fighter who eventually gets to the Dervish prestige class from Complete Warrior, but I also thought of the Cavalier... However, a lot of the Cavalier's abilities are focused on the Lance and Sword, not polearms, so I don't know if it's worthwhile or not. Any suggestions on a build? What feats should I consider? Since I want to use a reach weapon, I am assuming Combat Reflexes would be good. There's just soooo many options... Thus far I have: 1 Fighter 1 - (Feat: Cbt Expertise, Dodge, Mobility) 2 Ftr 2 - (Feat: Wpn Focus (??? Polearm)) 3 Ftr 3 - (Feat: Mounted Combat) 4 Ftr 4 - (Feat: Wpn Spec (??? Polearm)) 5 Ftr 5 - 6 Ftr 6 - (Feats: Cbt Reflexes, Ride By Attack) 7 Barbarian 1 - Rage, +10 move 8 Dervish 1 - Movement mastery, Dervish Dance 1/day 9 Dervish 2 - Fast move +5, (Feats: Imp Critical? Imp Trip? Power Attack?) 10 Dervish 3 - Spring Attack I am not really happy with this build - Is trying to do mounted combat and melee trees at the same time too difficult? Any suggestions would be appreciated. The books I have access to are: PHB 3.5 DMG 3.5 Complete Warrior Complete Divine Complete Arcane Races of Stone Races of Destiny (when it comes out!) Players Guide to Faerun Thanks all, evilgenius
Blade2718 12-13-04, 01:38 AM	I think the guisarme is a good alternative. Some levels in Shou Disciple (from Unapproachable East) would help a lot, as it lets you flurry with any martial weapon, improved unarmed damage, and a bonus to Dodge.
fozzybear 12-13-04, 02:09 AM	Hah, I didn't read your post
evilgenius 12-13-04, 04:20 PM	I think the guisarme is a good alternative. Some levels in Shou Disciple (from Unapproachable East) would help a lot, as it lets you flurry with any martial weapon, improved unarmed damage, and a bonus to Dodge. Sounds cool. I'll have to check it out... The Unapproachable East is in the Forgotten Realms series, right? That's perfect! Any other suggestions?
HippieKiller 12-13-04, 04:31 PM	personally I´d stay away from weapon focus/weapon spec, they´re ok feats but I think that it could be better if you get mounted combat or spring attack earlier. Having that said I don´t think that Fighter 6 or even 4 is necessary, just get fighter 2 and get monk or rogue or more level´s barbarian or even ranger. I would maybe look for a good ac combo in which you can use your high int and maybe wisdom (monk) for ac so you don´t have to wear armor. Mageslayer is always a good feat for a pole-arm fighter (it´s from CA). just my 2 cents
PhaedrusXY 12-13-04, 07:42 PM	I'd suggest Swashbuckler3/monk2/ShouDisciple5 for a start, then maybe some levels of Duelist or something else. I think there is a feat called Kung Fu Genius from Dragon that adds your Int to AC, also. Take the 3rd level of monk if you really want the +10 to movement.
PhoenixInferno 12-13-04, 08:44 PM	Kung Fu Genius lets you use Int instead of Wis for your Monk related abilities. Not just for Wis to AC purposes.
Todd 12-13-04, 09:30 PM	I think the guisarme is a good alternative. Some levels in Shou Disciple (from Unapproachable East) would help a lot, as it lets you flurry with any martial weapon, improved unarmed damage, and a bonus to Dodge. Yep Shou is the way to go. My suggestion: Barbarian-2 / Fighter-2 / Ranger-1 / Shou-5 / Dervish-10 In your case the Barbarian's movement would probably be better than the Monks & two levels gives you Rage & Uncanny Dodge to play with. Fighter-2 for the feats. Ranger-1 for the free tracking. Shou for some unarmed damage and martial flurry. As an alternative you could do: Barbarian-1 / Fighter-4 / Shou-5 / Dervish-10 with nearly the same results but with a bit more focus.
PhaedrusXY 12-13-04, 10:14 PM	Kung Fu Genius lets you use Int instead of Wis for your Monk related abilities. Not just for Wis to AC purposes.Are there any prereqs for it? I don't own that particular dragon.
evilgenius 12-13-04, 11:34 PM	personally I´d stay away from weapon focus/weapon spec, they´re ok feats but I think that it could be better if you get mounted combat or spring attack earlier. Having that said I don´t think that Fighter 6 or even 4 is necessary, just get fighter 2 and get monk or rogue or more level´s barbarian or even ranger. I would maybe look for a good ac combo in which you can use your high int and maybe wisdom (monk) for ac so you don´t have to wear armor. Mageslayer is always a good feat for a pole-arm fighter (it´s from CA). just my 2 cents Cool. Wpn Focus is necessary for the Dervish class - though I am by no means attached to the class... But I agree that Wpn Spec might be less than ideal - particularly when I would be changing weapons at different fighting ranges, it's effective only half of the time or less. I'm diggin the Occult slayer - It's a decent class, and it works best with the Kensai though, with the whole "must use this one weapon" restriction. It's almost like they were made for each other. For this concept however, I don't see it, since he'll need a second weapon for close in fighting. As an alternative you could do: Barbarian-1 / Fighter-4 / Shou-5 / Dervish-10 with nearly the same results but with a bit more focus. I am diggin this build - Bar 1, Ftr 4, XXX 5 and ultimately Dervish 10. I don't have access to Unapproachable East yet, but I'll give it a look. I would want the Barbarian level is only for fast movement - Rage can't be used with the Dervish Dance. But, it's cheaper than three levels of monk. However, the advantage of Monk is that he wouldn't need to use a second weapon for close in fighting, and would get Combat Reflexes for free. Good stuff to think about all. Thanks! L8er evilgenius
PhaedrusXY 12-14-04, 12:15 AM	I would want the Barbarian level is only for fast movement - Rage can't be used with the Dervish Dance. But, it's cheaper than three levels of monk. However, the advantage of Monk is that he wouldn't need to use a second weapon for close in fighting, and would get Combat Reflexes for free. Good stuff to think about all. Thanks! L8er evilgeniusWhat do you mean by cheaper? That you lose a point of BAB with monk? Monk also lets you qualify for Shou Disciple easier. And Shou Disciple has full base attack progression, two bonus feats, and will increase your unarmed damage to 2d6. Along with giving you the ability to make a flurry of blows with any martial weapon. And it's only a 5 level Prestige Class. It is almost ideal for a polearm fighter, in my opinion.
PhoenixInferno 12-14-04, 12:46 AM	Kung Fu Genius is in Dragon 319. Needs an INT of 13+ and must be taken at or before your first monk level.
evilgenius 12-14-04, 08:26 PM	What do you mean by cheaper? That you lose a point of BAB with monk? Monk also lets you qualify for Shou Disciple easier. And Shou Disciple has full base attack progression, two bonus feats, and will increase your unarmed damage to 2d6. Along with giving you the ability to make a flurry of blows with any martial weapon. And it's only a 5 level Prestige Class. It is almost ideal for a polearm fighter, in my opinion. Good point. I went to the game store today and took a look at Unapproachable East and took a looksie at the the Shou Disciple. I am certainly convinced on the applicability of the class. The requirements are the killer (Imp Unarmed Strike and Wpn Focus Imp Unarmed Strike), and you're right - they are much easier met with the Monk. I ended up buying the book by the way. Good stuff in there. I'll post a possible build when I get it done. L8er evilgenius
HippieKiller 12-20-04, 11:12 AM	a Quick bump cuz I´m also currently thinking of a mobile pole-arm fighter build :)
acvar 12-20-04, 12:35 PM	monk 3/fighter 2/SD 5/dervish 10. Use a guisarme instead of a glave for the tripping ability. Dance around your opponets, and trip them to keep them at a distance, that way you may never need to use anything other then your reach weapon. You sould definatly get mage slayer and maybe even the rest of the feat chain.
mvincent 12-20-04, 01:14 PM	Two quick suggestions: - Take the level in Barbarian as your first level (to get the extra hp and skill points). - Take spirited charge (for double damage with the pole-arm). Power attack also synergizes well with that.
HippieKiller 12-20-04, 01:42 PM	Does anybody have any idea about maybe trading the paladin for SD lvl´s for the mount and roleplay/flavor???
PhaedrusXY 12-20-04, 01:50 PM	Does anybody have any idea about maybe trading the paladin for SD lvl´s for the mount and roleplay/flavor???Can you multiclass freely with Palladin? Or does your DM follow the restrictions on it? If you can multiclass freely, I'd go Palladin2/Monk3/Shou5 (or Pal3/Monk2/Shou5) then go back to Palladin. Shou is too good to give up, in my opinion. But then again... it is one of my favorite prestige classes.
Khazra Reborn 12-20-04, 02:06 PM	If you can track down the sword & fist 3.0 book, the duom is one of the best reach weapons because you can attack adjacent foes, the only other reach weapon that can do that is the spiked chain (which i have grown to hat & find boring).
argorond 12-20-04, 02:10 PM	taking paladin starts to make it bit mad about stats, with good rolls np but with pointbuy ... ? =)
Tony Vargas 12-20-04, 02:59 PM	If barbarian fits the character, you might want to take it at 1st. Not only does it just make more sense to start out as a barbarian, then go to more 'civilized' classes, it also gives you more skill points and a couple more hps, and it doesn't seem like it's critical to the build to get bonus feats in extra-early. Weapon focus and specialization might be worth getting eventually, but, with everything you want to do, completing other trees first may be better.