Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Shadow8472 11-11-03, 07:20 PM	I've got a 13th level elf built up for a game on Saturday. She's currently got 5 levels of Rogue and 8 of Thief Acrobat. It is my current intention to finish thief acrobat and go into Shadow Dancer. This will be an epic game. Current feats are: Spring Attack Combat Reflexes Dodge Weapon Finesse Mobility Improved Trip Looking for advice on the concept and suggested revisions as far as a shuffling of levels (more of one less of another) or the shuffling of Feats. If you want more details on the character I'll send 'em to ya. Thanks. Shadow
Sisyfos 11-11-03, 07:28 PM	What would you want from the character? The current build will make a sneaky character with VERY little offensive capabilities. Your sneak attack will top at +2d6, you will have some defensive capabilities, but they stack a lot: you get evasion from everywhere. Rogue16/shadow_dancer4 would be a lot more powerful. Is your character good or evil? If you go for rogue type then your priorities for combat are: - Good attack bonus - Good sneak attack - Good mobility - Good defense
Shadow8472 11-11-03, 07:35 PM	Well, assuming that there isn't a typo in the PHB and Song and Silence, a fifth level rogue gets sneak attack at 3d6. And a thief acrobat gets sneak attack at 1d6 at level 4 giving me a total of 4d6 sneak attack damage Right know the idea is to be quick and mobile and be the "you cant catch me" type. The character is currently aligned to Chaotic Good. Also, while I like the R16/SD4 idea, I'm only allowed to build a 13th level character. The goal is to go Epic and the campaign is headed that way. But the highest level is currently 15. So, what would you suggest within the constraints of 13 levels?
draegl0th 11-11-03, 10:41 PM	What sources are you allowed? Providing us your stats would also be very helpful.
Shadow8472 11-12-03, 10:57 AM	I'm allowed just about every source that is out there with the exception of Oriental Adventurers. I also made a few adjustments to the level break down as follows: Rogue 5, Thief Acrobat 5, Shadowdancer 3 Str: 15 Dex: 22 Con 16 Int 17 Wis 14 Cha 14 Those numbers include 3 attribute bonuses (2 to dex and 1 to con) Saves are Fort: 6 Reflex: 17 Will: 5
ShadesoftheRedDeath 11-12-03, 11:38 AM	You might want to consider taking 2 or 3 levels in the PrC Guild Thief as well. That'll give you an extra +1d6 or +2d6 to your sneak attack, and a bonus feat. Also, combining Cartwheel Charge(or whatever it's called in the acrobat PrC) with Spring Attack might let you move in and out of your opponents range dealing a sneak attack every round. (I'm not entirely if spring attack works with charge though.)
ShadesoftheRedDeath 11-12-03, 11:52 AM	You might also want to consider the Telflammar Shadowlord PrC from Unapproachable East after a few levels of Shadowdancer instead of taking the additional Shadowdancer levels (there's less overlap between already existing abilities and abilities that will be gained).
Sisyfos 11-12-03, 12:20 PM	Rog3 Rang3 GT4 HL3 Sneak +4d6 2 bonus feats (GT) Track, two weapon fighting (ranger) Turning -> Divine might Divine Grace -> Great saves even with a cheap +4 to CHA item. Required feat: Iron will Bab: 2+3+3+3=11 -> 3 attacks Feats: @1 Power Attack @3 Flick of the wrist @4 Track* @5 TWF* @6 Endurance* @6 ITWF @8 Weapon Finesse* @9 Iron will @10 Blind Fighting* @12 Divine might Future feats: - Quicker than the eye - Expert Tactician - Quick draw - Greater Two weapon fighting Attack routine: 11+6(dex)+1(weapon): 16/11/6 (primary hand) 16/11 (off-hand) Damage: d6+4(str)+1(weapon)+2d6(holy)+d6(frost)+ 4d6(sneak)[when appropriate]+4(divine might)=8d6+9 when flanking/surprise and 7 attacks/round. The hit chance ain't too high though... This character is ready for taking horizon walker levels or it can be built a bit differently to take telflammar shadowlord levels instead. I guess that the divine might and power attack are wasted feats actually so skip them and take rogueish feats instead. -- Hmm... actually this kinda sucks :-P I guess its better to concentrate more on the pure rogue aspect.
Kalanth 11-12-03, 12:28 PM	Take a level or two in the Hoard Steeler PrC in the Draconomicon. Gives / Increases the Darkvisions of the character and makes them a bit sneakier. Yet another option that does not do much in the way of offense.
draegl0th 11-12-03, 05:10 PM	If you're allowed evil alignment, I would strongly suggest an assassin. (Sun?) Elf Rogue3/Fighter2/Assassin8 By 13th level, you would have: +6d6 Sneak Attack A rather powerful Death Attack Improved Uncanny Dodge Evasion ...and guess what? You also get Hide in Plain Sight with this build;) Continue your character by taking Telflammar Shadowlord levels, which grants no sneak attack progression but amazing class features. Abilities such as Shadow Discorporation, Shade Sight, Shadow Pounce, Shadow Blur are strongly flavored and powerful. The additional +6DC to your death attack is plain icing :angel:
Shadow8472 11-12-03, 05:21 PM	Originally posted by ShadesoftheRedDeath You might want to consider taking 2 or 3 levels in the PrC Guild Thief as well. That'll give you an extra +1d6 or +2d6 to your sneak attack, and a bonus feat. Also, combining Cartwheel Charge(or whatever it's called in the acrobat PrC) with Spring Attack might let you move in and out of your opponents range dealing a sneak attack every round. (I'm not entirely if spring attack works with charge though.) My DM has ruled out combining Cartwheel Charge with Spring attack. I'm not sure what his rationalle is, I'll have to double check. Which book has Thief guild in it? Take a level or two in the Hoard Steeler PrC in the Draconomicon. Gives / Increases the Darkvisions of the character and makes them a bit sneakier. Yet another option that does not do much in the way of offense. Not a bad idea, and under other circumstances I'd give it serious thought however there are two problems at the moment. 1) We don't have Draconomicon yet. and 2)This game is going to Epic levels and the monsters are going right with us. I can't afford to be very weak in the offense. With this current set up, my offensive defeciencies are compensated for by my lil shadow cohort. (Shadowdancer 3)
ShadesoftheRedDeath 11-12-03, 05:47 PM	Unfortunantly, A shadow companion will be incredible weak versus the powers of most foes you run into at 13th level, even with their increased hit dice from the shadow dancer class. Plus, I think there might penalities or something if they die.
draegl0th 11-12-03, 05:52 PM	Yes, shadowdancers receive XP penalties when a shadow companion dies. In my point of view, the most significant ability of a shadowdancer is Hide in Plain Sight, which is also granted by Assassin, a more powerful class mechanics-wise.
Shadow8472 11-12-03, 10:57 PM	I spoke to my DM and he said that the Spring attack while doing the Cartwheel Charge, works and he'd let me use that tactic in that way. I don't know if the assasin fits into the character concept I had in mind. I would like to stick to prestige classes that a Chaotic good character can take.