Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Potlok 06-29-04, 11:49 AM	I'm going to make a duel of a 13th level Druid VS Cleric(I'm the druid). 3.5 Books, no dragon magazine, and I want to kick some cleric's ASS, im only designing this PC to fight the cleric, so if you could give me some tips, you know, good feats, prc's, tactics, buff spells (ex. Animal growth, natures favor, bull strength, etc.) I want to focus on wild shape, assuming this could be a good option to try and grapple the cleric with DireBear Form or whetever you guy's think is better, and also keep my companion 5' close to me so we're both buffed with the same spells :D Well if there is any advice you could give me I would be very thankfull. P.D.: Also if you think is better focusing on other stuff like summons and such, say so. Thanks again Edit: I think the system will be 32 point buy.
phoenxhwk 06-29-04, 12:26 PM	Be warned: a smart cleric will anticipate your dire bear tactics (assuming they also know about the fight ahead of time like you do), and will have a freedom of movement spell handy.
Funny Slaughter 06-29-04, 12:35 PM	the char is just for this fight, right? think about improved trip, freedom of movement wont help. and a grappled cleric has to cast the spell first while you can cause damage in this round. be sure to have spells ready that attack his weak spots. if you are able to get exalted wildshape you can even get SR. a good idea is to let your companion fight the cleric and cast spells (summons for example) yourself. what are the rules of the combat exactly? gs Funny
ksbsnowowl 06-29-04, 12:46 PM	Well, interestingly enough, I am currently playing a 13th level Druid (human), also done with 32 point buy. Let me lay out what I've done and found to be effective, maybe it'll help you. With 32 point buy my base stats were Str 11, Dex 12, Con 14, Int 14, Wis 17, Cha 8 (I think that's right.) I then added all three level boosts to Wisdom, giving me a Wisdom of 20. Currently my feats are: H-Extend Spell 1-Energy Substitution (Sonic) 3-Empower Spell 6-Natural Spell 9-Blindsight (MotW) 12-Dragon Wildshape Another feat that might be of note is Exalted Wildshape; or if you do decide to go the summoning route, the possibilities include Spell Focus (Conjuration)/Augment Summoning, Rashemeni Elemental Summoning (UE), and/or Ashbound (Ebberon). Also, fast wildshape could be useful. Rash. Elemental Summoning can be quite good. If you use a 6th level slot to summon a Huge Air elemental, that elemental can unleash 3 Cones of Cold at 16th caster level (ie- 15d6 damage each). I realise that the Blindsight feat might not fly (it's from a 3.0 splat), and sonic might not either, but I would suggest getting some type of energy substitution(miniature HB); most of your damage spells are fire-based. You want to mix that up a bit so one simple resistance spell can negate many of your offensive capability. The best Wildshape forms available to you at this level include the Tiger, Dire Bear, Legendary Ape, Silver Dragons, and Shadow Dragons (other dragon forms can be good too). I've yet to use legendary ape form yet, but the others have worked quite well. You could become a Dire Bear, cast Animal Growth and either a produce flame, poison, or kiss of death(?)[MotW]and grapple the cleric (with a 30+ grapple bonus), but a simple freedom of movement can make him immune to that tactic. I've really enjoyed Dragon Wildshape (Draconomicon). It has given me a very wide range of abilities unobtainable with normal wildshapes. In Shadow dragon form you gain immunity to energy drain, and you have a +13 natural armor bonus (my druid usually has an AC between 35-45 while wildshaped.) You also have total concealment (50% miss chance to hit you) when in anything but full daylight. And you also have blindsense (if you are unable to get the blindsight feat). Turn into a dragon and cast obscuring mist or uncork an Eversmoking Bottle to gain an advantage. Lastly, your breath weapon inflicts 2 negative levels on its targets (Ref? save for half). His land and fly speeds top the 60 and 120 foot limits, respectively. He also has SR, which you gain (something around SR 18, IIRC) Silver Dragons are also an excellent form. They have Immunity to both Cold and Acid, but are vulnerable to fire. However, there is a 6th level spell in the Draconomicon called energy immunity that makes the target immune to one type of energy damage for 24 hours. That pretty well takes care of your vulnerability (along with a ring of counterspells). So, in Silver dragon form and with one spell you're immune to 3 elements. You also have two decent breath weapons (paralysis for 4-9 rounds or 6d8 cone of cold) and of course, a fly speed that tops the 120 ft limit. Lastly, you can use the Silver Dragon's Alternate Form ability, which allows you to assume the form of any Medium-size or smaller Humanoid or Animal 3 times per day, with no time limit. This basically gives you free wildshapes, and opens up a few other useful possibilities... You can become a Dark Stalker (Dark One) from the Fiend Folio, and gain its +3d6 racial sneak attack (combines well with obscuring mist and Blindsight). You also gain Poison Use (not really a big deal, since you're already immune to poison.) Other dragons of note include the Fang Dragon (Draconomicon) for its Con-draining bite and increased natural weapon damage, the fairy dragon (Draconomicon) for its 100 ft (perfect) flight manuverability, Amethyst Dragons(MMII) for their 6d8 line of Force breath weapon, along with Fire resist 30, swim and burrow speeds, and the ability to shift to any of the inner planes at will. Also Rust Dragons (Dracon) for their Rust attack bite (similar to rusting grasp, only magic items get saves) and DR. For a basic form (if you cannot start off in wildshape) I'd use your 1000 faces ability to be a Troglodyte most of the time. You gain +6 Natural armor, 2 claw attacks and a bite attack, as well as the Multiattack feat as a racial bonus feat. Your BAB for a full attack in this form is: Weapon (club) +9/+4, and claw +7, and bite +7
Potlok 06-29-04, 01:04 PM	Wow, thanks a lot! We still haven't made the rules, so what should I try? Start buffed or start plain, also starting near of each other ...what do you think it could be the best start for both of us (cause he'd have to agree to the conditions) Thanks again! P.D.: Just so i know, being this character for one-use only, it's worth shaping into a dragon or the legendary ape could work fine fo my purpose? It's just to know if I spend that feat or look to other ones.
Potlok 06-30-04, 03:30 AM	Do you think it would be good to take the Mage Slayer feat? since im going to go mellee with the cleric, making him an AoO almost every round would be very good. What do you think? (P.D.: Rules are set,we start 30' from each other and we can have cast spells with duration of 10min/level or more.) Thanks in advance for your replies
Potlok 06-30-04, 07:12 AM	Is it legal to cast animal growth on yourself, become 1 size category larger. and then with the feat that lets you choose a cleric domain, with the strength, and casting rightneous might could be awesom! 2 sizes category above large would be collosal, plus +16str, +8 con, +4 NA, DR 10/Evil, etc... Also the trip and grapple rolls would be very good. Or is it better taking the war domain and cast divine power, so i get fighter BAB +6 str?? Also, does stoneskin stacks with the above DR??? how would that work?? Thanks for the replies
RabidWeasel 06-30-04, 08:06 AM	Originally posted by Potlok Is it legal to cast animal growth on yourself, become 1 size category larger. Also, does stoneskin stacks with the above DR??? how would that work?? Yes, you can use animal growth on yourself if you are in animal form, or your animal companion is near enough for you to share spells with. In general DR doesn't stack; you use the highest applicable damage reduction for each attack, rather than adding the amount of DR together.
phoenxhwk 06-30-04, 08:15 AM	Originally posted by Potlok Is it legal to cast animal growth on yourself, become 1 size category larger. and then with the feat that lets you choose a cleric domain, with the strength, and casting rightneous might could be awesom! 2 sizes category above large would be collosal, plus +16str, +8 con, +4 NA, DR 10/Evil, etc... Also the trip and grapple rolls would be very good. Or is it better taking the war domain and cast divine power, so i get fighter BAB +6 str?? Also, does stoneskin stacks with the above DR??? how would that work?? Thanks for the replies From the animal growth spell: "Multiple magical effects that increase size do not stack.", so sorry ... no righteous might. Divine Power is pretty good. Just remember that it's an enhancement bonus to strength, so it won't stack with other enhancement bonuses. Also, the BAB bonus will give you an extra +4 to hit. If you are an animal, it won't give you extra natural attacks. If you are an ape using a manufactured weapon, it will give an extra though! On the subject of DR: DR does not stack. You simply use the better DR in any given situation. Your DR 10/magic from Animal Growth will most likely be useless. At level 13, I would guess that the DR 10/evil from exalted wildshape will be enough. However, if you also cast stoneskin, you'll find that only an evil adamantite weapon will be any use to your opponent (until he finishes off the stoneskin).
James Moriarty 06-30-04, 08:23 AM	Chose to play a ghostwise halfling and take extend spell First round, cast extend Miasma. Second round: wildshape into a bird Third round till end: get out of the clerics range and let him hear your laughter
Funny Slaughter 06-30-04, 08:25 AM	mage slayer is quite broken, take it if you are allowed to. if you can setup the rules i would say absolutely no prebuffing (no persistant or extended spells) summoning is also a strong choice, espcially if your companion is able to grapple your enemy. get rashemi elemental summoning... gs Funny
Potlok 06-30-04, 10:50 AM	So now I have: Feats: Natural Spell Blindsight Power Atack Improved Trip (and the feat to choose a domain): War Domain Im choosing spiked chain to use 1 handed being Huge so I have 20' reach. Buff spells: Greater Magic Weapon Nature's Favor: for my dire bear companion Divine Power Animal Growth Bear's endurance Magic Vestment (On DarkWood Shield) And Magic items: +6 Periapt of wisdom Boots of speed Leather armor +4 Spiked chain +1 Wounding Monk's Belt Also I saw a spell in the complete divine that makes the weapon of Force and ignores all non-living armor O_O and also gives the weapon 1/2 spellcaster enhancement bonus (+6) so no Greater magic weapon, is this RIGHT??? For the blank feat do you have any suggestion? also in magic items or buff spells??? Thanks for your responses!:):) Edit: All this in Legendary Ape shape
Snow Savant 06-30-04, 11:36 AM	Potlok, You really need to prepare for your worst-case scenario. Pretend your opponent is a 13th level Cleric Archer with the Initiate of Mystra feat, clad in an Anti-Magic Aura and using Greater Anyspell/Fly spell. Because if your opponent is smart, this is the route he will take. And with your current set-up, he will totally own you, because you will never be able to reach him nor will you be able to effectively deal with his Anti-Magic Aura. If your build and array of gear can defeat or perform admirably against this Cleric archetype, than you will be all set. XO, Snow :cloud9:
Potlok 06-30-04, 11:48 AM	Taking that possibility into account I would prepare WindWalk (i think its called that) and with the spiked chain reach and the Huge dire bear's 15ft reach would atack the cleric, also with 48 AC it's going to be tough for the cleric to hit me all the atacks. Also I don't think it would be the case, but thanks for giving another vision of the cleric's possible choice. :)
ksbsnowowl 06-30-04, 12:14 PM	Originally posted by Potlok Leather armor +4 Monk's Belt You do know that you won't gain the AC benefit of the Monk's Belt if you are wearing armor or carrying a shield, right?
Potlok 06-30-04, 12:21 PM	You know, I was wondering how did I get such a high AC, well, that drops to 38 AC,which is still very good... :$ Thanks for pointing that :)
Funny Slaughter 06-30-04, 02:27 PM	improved trip needs combat expertise as prerequisite. an armor is not very good for a druid as its benefits go away when he wildshapes. and a druid should be wildshaped. Pretend your opponent is a 13th level Cleric Archer with the Initiate of Mystra feat, clad in an Anti-Magic Aura and using Greater Anyspell/Fly spell. Because if your opponent is smart, this is the route he will take. And with your current set-up, he will totally own you, because you will never be able to reach him nor will you be able to effectively deal with his Anti-Magic Aura. do the numbers, i think its hard to pull off the DCs at lvl 13. i am without my books so i only guess... gs Funny
Potlok 06-30-04, 02:48 PM	I thought that the Legendary Ape shape could have the armor cause its humanoid shape...am i wrong? That's what I've seen on lots of threads...
rich2939 06-30-04, 04:41 PM	Originally posted by ksbsnowowl Currently my feats are: H-Extend Spell 1-Energy Substitution (Sonic) Rest edited out. You might want to go re-read the rereqs on energy substitution, unless there's some other version than the tome and blood one I don't know about.
Snow Savant 06-30-04, 04:55 PM	Originally posted by Funny Slaughter an armor is not very good for a druid as its benefits go away when he wildshapes. and a druid should be wildshaped. Depends on your Druid's specific combat style. As confirmed by Skip, magic armor expands to fit wildshaped forms that are human-like in shape. Making the Humanoid-to-Dire-Ape wildshape tactics perfectly legal as well as a savvy tactical style. And at 13th level, the Druid can first wildshape into a Vine Horror, then stack on an additional activation of wildshape into the Dire Ape. By this sequence, an accumulation of class abilities of both forms occur. This is legal, since it is not covered under the stacking of similar magic effects as noted in the DMG. You can do even more insane stuff if you stack using the Celestial ... and *especially* the Draconic Wildshape feats in conjuction with your standard suite of Druidic wildshaping. do the numbers, i think its hard to pull off the DCs at lvl 13. i am without my books so i only guess... For their specific 13th level duel, you can easily pull off those DC's with a build & gear tightly focused to do so. XO, Snow :cloud9:
Potlok 06-30-04, 05:32 PM	Sorry...i didn't get that of the sequence of wildshapes can you tell me about that??? Maybe i could get advantage of that... Thanks in advance
ksbsnowowl 06-30-04, 06:37 PM	Originally posted by rich2939 You might want to go re-read the rereqs on energy substitution, unless there's some other version than the tome and blood one I don't know about. Heh, wow, you're right.... I'm gonna have to rework that a little...:embarrass Wow, don't I feel like an idiot.
Zeffan the Fighting Man 06-30-04, 07:07 PM	Originally posted by Snow Savant Potlok, You really need to prepare for your worst-case scenario. Pretend your opponent is a 13th level Cleric Archer with the Initiate of Mystra feat, clad in an Anti-Magic Aura and using Greater Anyspell/Fly spell. Because if your opponent is smart, this is the route he will take. And with your current set-up, he will totally own you, because you will never be able to reach him nor will you be able to effectively deal with his Anti-Magic Aura. If your build and array of gear can defeat or perform admirably against this Cleric archetype, than you will be all set. XO, Snow :cloud9: OK I'll Bite! After lurking for the past few months, you've stumped me into posting again, Snow... :cloud9: you :devil: HOW DO you handle such an opponent as a druid?!?? :confused: Zeffan the Fighting Man gamin' since '78
Potlok 07-01-04, 07:17 AM	Sorry...i didn't get that of the sequence of wildshapes can you tell me about that??? You maintan some abilities from a previous shape...??? I didn't understand
Aramil Liadon 07-01-04, 07:33 AM	Just a thought, but if you're sure you'll be wildshaped the whole time, don't bother with the physical stats. Take three 8's and boost your Wis as high as possible, because you won't need Str, Dex or Con.... Or am I wrong? Aramil
Potlok 07-01-04, 07:40 AM	This are my stats, forgot to put them here: Str:8 Dex:8 Con:14 (+1 levels) Int:13 (expertise) Wis: 20 (+2 levels) Cha:8 Also I thought to start with a good old: Ring of counterspell with greater dispell magic, cause if he takes my buffs away im going to be in trouble. EDIT: If i take Exalter widshape, what bonus will give me the "celestial" shape of legendary-ape???
Nifft 07-01-04, 07:55 AM	Vs. any archer: Wind Wall -- arrows simply fail to hit you. Vs. anyone flying: Control Winds -- at 13th level, you can increase the wind by 4 ranks, which looks like enough to get a Windstorm under many conditions (drives flying critters from the sky). Snow, what does Anti-Magic Aura do? What book is it in? -- N
Zeffan the Fighting Man 07-01-04, 10:42 AM	Originally posted by Aramil Liadon Just a thought, but if you're sure you'll be wildshaped the whole time, don't bother with the physical stats. Take three 8's and boost your Wis as high as possible, because you won't need Str, Dex or Con.... Or am I wrong? Aramil You are correct. Potlok should dump those points into wisdom to increase his spell power. If this druid is being developed just for this fight, then Wisdom is the only stat that maetters. Zeff
Zeffan the Fighting Man 07-01-04, 11:03 AM	Originally posted by Nifft Vs. any archer: Wind Wall -- arrows simply fail to hit you. Vs. anyone flying: Control Winds -- at 13th level, you can increase the wind by 4 ranks, which looks like enough to get a Windstorm under many conditions (drives flying critters from the sky). Snow, what does Anti-Magic Aura do? What book is it in? -- N Thanks for the answer, Nifft! I had forgotten about wind wall. One may also use the spell "earthbound" (or is it earthbind...) to prevent flying critters from moving as well...or take cover with the "land womb" spell from FR -- etc. etc. etc. Defense isn't the problem...how do you kill him? With a cleric's saves and the anti-magic aura-- this clown is immune to Harrier and all my ranged attack spells, and, I believe, my (flying) summoned critters... :twitch: I can stop him from flying, but I can't reach him to beat him like a gong or rip him to shreads in wild shapped forms--and flying forms aren't particularly effective for melee, if I can even penetrate the aforementioned aura. The aura also makes my combat/attack spells ineffective--and my own missle/ranged attacks suck hard--so what's my druid to do...? :tantrum: There may be no "best" answer for the hapless druid in this case... other than teamwork between party members rocks HARDEST! (yep, a good team will mop up any single massive CO'ed character everyday of the week and thrice on game day!) And :cloud9:, I'd second Nifft's request for particulars on the anti-magic aura...thanks in advance, mi' Lady Snow! Zeff (since '78, he's been taking the battle to the enemy... ;) )
Snow Savant 07-01-04, 11:46 AM	I hate to break your heart, Zeff, but the anti-archery buffed Druid (Nifft's suggestions are good) will be playing a game of "coy detente" against an Archer Cleric. The Druid can't even enter the AMF while wildshaped (a Supernatural ability) because your wildshape will go *poof*. The Mystran Archer Cleric is the Mack Daddy of the 3.5 Player-vs.Player Battlefield. It's just that simple. You both can play avoidance games all day long though. And cast spells or gear-up with stuff that will make you both difficult to spot or acquire for targetting. But that doesn't help either of you's ability to clock the other upside the head. XO, Snow :cloud9:
Potlok 07-01-04, 12:22 PM	Would it be worth it to choose the Magic domain instead of the War domain? I'd be getting wizard spells that could be usefull. Pot Edit: Tenser's Transformation could be great, but cant use spells or magic items...worth it?
Potlok 07-01-04, 02:14 PM	:bump:
Zeffan the Fighting Man 07-01-04, 02:54 PM	Originally posted by Snow Savant I hate to break your heart, Zeff, but the anti-archery buffed Druid (Nifft's suggestions are good) will be playing a game of "coy detente" against an Archer Cleric. The Druid can't even enter the AMF while wildshaped (a Supernatural ability) because your wildshape will go *poof*. The Mystran Archer Cleric is the Mack Daddy of the 3.5 Player-vs.Player Battlefield. It's just that simple. You both can play avoidance games all day long though. And cast spells or gear-up with stuff that will make you both difficult to spot or acquire for targetting. But that doesn't help either of you's ability to clock the other upside the head. XO, Snow :cloud9: Admit it Snow--you LOVED braking my heart, you -- vixen! :D AND-- You've made my point, exactly, Snow! To quote 'meself', ...ahem..."--and flying forms aren't particularly effective for melee, if I can even penetrate the aforementioned aura." Which leaves us (....well, Nifft and me, anyhow) wondering ... 1.) Where IS the anti- magic aura (or is it "AMF") described, and 2.) How can we deal with such an opponent--bring 'im down, so to speak???? I just had a goofy thought! :looloo: Years ago, Keanu Reeves and Patrick Swayze were in a movie called "Point Break" (goofy macho film about FBI agent / football star getting into skydiving and surfing to catch bank robbers who party, drink and :censored: when they are not robbing banks dressed like former presidents--satirizes the macho ego rather well...) :zzz: ANYHOW (sorry about the movie summary there...), in this movie Swayze leaps out of a plane with a parachute to escape FBI agent Reeves. Reeves, sans parachute, leaps out after him to "get his man." Swayze and Reeves (more probably their stunt "doubles") collide in mid-air and with a successful grapple they engage in "falling fisticuffs" until Reeves makes another grapple to grip swayze and engage his parachute so both men land without going splat on the hard desert floor below. So, mi' Lady, I have a cunning plan... (...What is it THIS time Baldric...and does it involve fruit?) :smirk: My druid assumes a great flying form and "charges" the aforementioned cleric archer flying about in mid-air. The druids assumes her normal shape as she passes into the anti-magic sheild--but her momentum carries her within grappling range of the cleric-archer. The Druid can now administer nasty melee grapple attacks while hanging on for dear life--perhaps changing into another form to shred her opponent to pieces. If she is high enough off the ground (or has FAST wildshape feat), she can change into another flying form to swoop away--once she has dispatched said cleric-archer. :angel: If she's not sufficiently high enough off the ground and cannot change in time then ...splat! :banghead: Now the likely hood of such a tactic actually working in a fantasy Role playing game? :rolleyes: Well, ....it worked in the movies... ;) Other hints? Suggestions? Outright answers? Any insight (from anyone--but especially you, Snow... :love: ) at all would be appreciated! Thanks! TTFN Zeff
Himo 07-01-04, 03:56 PM	Originally posted by ksbsnowowl You do know that you won't gain the AC benefit of the Monk's Belt if you are wearing armor or carrying a shield, right? ksbsnowow, some questions: - What benefits do you get from the Monk's belt? - How do you get AC 35-45 at level 13? - Since you are mostly in wildshape... wouldn't it be better to have a lower con and higher wis?
Zeffan the Fighting Man 07-01-04, 04:22 PM	Originally posted by Himo ksbsnowow, some questions: - What benefits do you get from the Monk's belt? - How do you get AC 35-45 at level 13? - Since you are mostly in wildshape... wouldn't it be better to have a lower con and higher wis? Your answers, Himo: 1) Primarily, the monk's belt adds your druid's WIS modifier to his / her AC. 2.) Let me count the ways.....no there is not enough time--let's just say it ain't hard... (my AC at 11th level (1 monk/10 druid) is typically around 37 with my VoP benefits--it'd be higher if I could use magic items instead of the VoP benefits...) 3.) YES! Zeff gamin' since '78
Snow Savant 07-01-04, 04:53 PM	A perfectly sound argument can be built to both allow and disallow the Monk's Belt to stack Monk's AC WIS Mod.-to-AC Bonus to a Druid. Balthanon and I debated this recently for Sinwa, my Druidess located in my sig below. Balthanon's nixing of the Monk's Belt is correct based upon a number of argumentative criteria, including designer intent. My argument was based on the Monk's AC bonus "mechanism" semantics, which I felt could be extrapolated from the loose definition of the Monk's Belt verbiage & mechanics. Ultimately, I respect Bal, and I accepted his ruling ... and also because of his solid logic foundation. Now that I think about it some more, if I was a DM, I would not allow the Monk's Belt bonus to add WIS Mod.-to- AC. But I would give the Druid the AC of a 5th level Monk. In essence, making the Monk's Belt rather sub-optimal for a Druid ... especially one who wishes to use the rather tasty Dragonshide Breastplate + Wooden Shield combo. XO, Snow :cloud9:
rich2939 07-01-04, 04:53 PM	Originally posted by Zeffan the Fighting Man 2.) Let me count the ways.....no there is not enough time--let's just say it ain't hard... Someone wanna type some/most of them out? I'm curious as well.
ksbsnowowl 07-02-04, 01:31 AM	Originally posted by Himo ksbsnowow, some questions: - What benefits do you get from the Monk's belt?As has been mentioned, Wis mod +1 to AC. This has been debated on the boards, but my DM doesn't seem to have a problem with it. - How do you get AC 35-45 at level 13?Let me think for a minute here....and keep in mind that I have 3 wilding clasps. Shadow Dragon form: 10 [base] + 13 [natural] + 5 [natural enhancement](Barkskin) + 9 unnamed [Monk's Belt] + 4 [bracers of armor] + 2 [dex] + 1 [deflection](Ring of Protection) = AC 44 I think my Silver dragon form is sitting at around 37 at the moment (it has a lesser amount of natural armor). I conditionally add an 'If I Recall Correctly' to these calculations. Now, certainly this would drop if your DM does not interpret a Monk's Belt as providing Wis to AC. - Since you are mostly in wildshape... wouldn't it be better to have a lower con and higher wis? Perhaps; infact, probably. At the time I made the character I wasn't sure what interpretation my DM would take to the effects of polymorph on HP's, and I also didn't want to be completely sickly in my normal form. I couldn't have pushed my Wis much higher anyways... it was already a base 17, and I put all 3 level bumps into it. I've got an even 20 now, and for the majority of the game (I'm only playing for the summer) he'll sit at 20. A 21 would have no effect on my character, and would be a waste.
SuperThread 07-02-04, 02:58 AM	Originally posted by Snow Savant The Druid can't even enter the AMF while wildshaped (a Supernatural ability) because your wildshape will go *poof*. The Mystran Archer Cleric is the Mack Daddy of the 3.5 Player-vs.Player Battlefield. It's just that simple. I believe that potlok may have been on to something with the 15 foot reach of the (Animal Growth-ed) Dire Bear. Combine with Spring Attack and Wind Wall and you may have a tactic that can take even the nigh-undefeatable MAC (Mystran Archer Cleric). :)
Pyrites Bluff 07-02-04, 03:57 AM	I think ant-magic aura is in Magic of Faerun.
Potlok 07-02-04, 05:08 AM	Strategy I would use against Archer Initiate of Mystra: I'd use any reach weapon (lance, spiked chain, etc) and flying, sunder his bow, so even if i don't have the feat he couldn't do the AoO, and since the bow is in an antimagic aura or field or whatever it is, it'll break quite easily, leaving the cleric weaponless and with only the advantage of casting spells in the AMF and flying, which is still a threat but much less than with a bow, after that just atack the same way to him, and since the only bonus will be from armor and Dex, it could be quite easy since you are all buffed up. Also could make the Dire-Bear Air Walking Companion grapple him, and even withought the magical growth and buff will be quite hard for the cleric (buffless) to keep it away :) Saludos
RabidWeasel 07-02-04, 08:21 AM	Control winds can turn calmness to a windstorm at caster level 13, which totally prevents ranged attacks. That should at least level the playing field slightly.
Vodalen 07-02-04, 10:00 AM	Using control winds to keep him from flying or using ranged weapons. Then send in your animal companion and a harrier(they're not subject to SR, and they're conj(creation) so they can operate inside an AMF) to keep the cleric busy. Grappling is an option if you've got a bear, and he doesn't have freedom of movement up. After that, you can pound him with no SR spells. Fire seeds(sonic substituted preferably) are a personal favorite
Necron 07-02-04, 10:06 AM	Originally posted by Snow Savant .. The Druid can't even enter the AMF while wildshaped (a Supernatural ability) because your wildshape will go *poof*. The Mystran Archer Cleric is the Mack Daddy of the 3.5 Player-vs.Player Battlefield. It's just that simple. Sure .. but just shape into something with burrow speed and wait down in mother earth womb .. the 13 rounds later take a short peak whether the cleric was able to initiate another AMF or not. If so go back down and wait 13 rounds etc .. since AMF is SpL 7 he cannot cast that often. After that cast darkness and change to shadowdragon and rip him to pieces :devil: Just my 2 cents Necron, evil DM :devil: Edit: furthermore .. the cleric only has a 50% chance of casting spells within the AMF (his CL against CL of AMF .. which should be quite equal since he cannot use magic items within AMF ;) )
Himo 07-02-04, 11:17 AM	Originally posted by ksbsnowowl [BLet me think for a minute here....and keep in mind that I have 3 wilding clasps. [/B] What are those wilding clasps and what do they do? Thanks for the detailed answer, btw.
Nifft 07-02-04, 12:52 PM	Snow: If the cleric is in an AMF, he's a stinky archer, and he certainly can't fly. In this case, the proper thing to do is Rock to Mud (or just Soften Earth & Stone), and watch as the dude in full plate sinks into the muck. If he dismisses his AMF, jump in and eat his head. :) He really can't shoot you when you've got Wind Wall up. Complete Divine spells: - Camoflage: He can't shoot what he can't find. - Cloudburst: -4 to ranged attacks and Listen & Spot checks, 100 ft. radius spread, 10 min/level. Become something Tiny and hide from him until his AMF runs out, then direct some bolts at him from your Call Lightning Storm. - Cometfall: it's a Conjuration (Creation) spell, so perhaps it penetrates an AMF. - Binding Winds: not perfect, but nice against mobile flyers. -- N
Himo 07-02-04, 01:03 PM	If you fight a cleric archer, I would consider getting this spell: Repel Wood Transmutation Level: Drd 6, Plant 6 Components: V, S Casting Time: 1 standard action Range: 60 ft. Area: 60-ft. line-shaped emanation from you Duration: 1 min./level (D) Saving Throw: None Spell Resistance: No Waves of energy roll forth from you, moving in the direction that you determine, causing all wooden objects in the path of the spell to be pushed away from you to the limit of the range. Wooden objects larger than 3 inches in diameter that are fixed firmly are not affected, but loose objects are. Objects 3 inches in diameter or smaller that are fixed in place splinter and break, and the pieces move with the wave of energy. Objects affected by the spell are repelled at the rate of 40 feet per round. Objects such as wooden shields, spears, wooden weapon shafts and hafts, and arrows and bolts are pushed back, dragging those carrying them along. (A creature being dragged by an item it is carrying can let go. A creature being dragged by a shield can loose it as a move action and drop it as a free action.) If a spear is planted (set) to prevent this forced movement, it splinters. Even magic items with wooden sections are repelled, although an antimagic field blocks the effects. The waves of energy continue to sweep down the set path for the spell’s duration. After you cast the spell, the path is set, and you can then do other things or go elsewhere without affecting the spell’s power.
ksbsnowowl 07-02-04, 01:11 PM	Originally posted by Himo What are those wilding clasps and what do they do? Thanks for the detailed answer, btw. They are small clasps, that can be affixed to items such as amulets, cloaks, etc. They prevent the item they are attached to from melding with your new form when wildshaping; the items remain present and active on your person. (it does mention using common sense, giving the example of it being a bad idea to place a clasp on a Necklace of Fireballs while becomming a fire elemental) They can be found in MotW and Magic of Faerun, and IIRC, they run about 4K apiece.
Himo 07-02-04, 01:18 PM	I thought you didn't need those anymore since with the changes in Wildshape you are allowed to keep any magic item that fits the new form. They even show somewhere a list of things that you could keep in bear form. Although i forgot where is that. (somewhere in the WotC FAQs or rules)
ksbsnowowl 07-02-04, 01:19 PM	Hey Himo, Objects such as wooden shields, spears, wooden weapon shafts and hafts, and arrows and bolts are pushed back, dragging those carrying them along. (A creature being dragged by an item it is carrying can let go. A creature being dragged by a shield can loose it as a move action and drop it as a free action.) If a spear is planted (set) to prevent this forced movement, it splinters. Even magic items with wooden sections are repelled, although an antimagic field blocks the effects.
Himo 07-02-04, 01:31 PM	Originally posted by ksbsnowowl although an antimagic field blocks the effects. Yep, but only up to its radius, as long as you stay away from the radius (10 feet), as soon as the arrow leaves the effect it becomes affected by it. Right?
Caterane 07-02-04, 02:03 PM	So you want to fight it out? I can help you out here. The Core Coliseum (http://boards1.wizards.com/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=483) is a WotC board where you can test your builds in an arena dome against other builds. You simply post a lvl 2 character equipped with 1000 gold worth of items, and have him fight another lvl 2 character. If you win, you level and get new gold. A lot of fun and you will learn a lot about tactics and rules. Everyone is welcomed! Cat
ksbsnowowl 07-02-04, 02:22 PM	Originally posted by Himo Yep, but only up to its radius, as long as you stay away from the radius (10 feet), as soon as the arrow leaves the effect it becomes affected by it. Right? Yeah, that's true. I was thinking more of the 'ripping weapons out of their hands' aspect of it, which would be blocked. Silly me:D
Adan Northgan 07-02-04, 07:48 PM	Reasons why a fight between clerig and druid in that level nor it should be considered a fight: 1. clerig has divine favor 2.. clerig has divine metamagic 3. he also has the feat divine spell power 4.Ah! he can cast any arcane spell up to 5 lvl. 5. if he goes a clerig of Mystra he can use AMF without fear for a melee fight. 6. if he has the feat stand still (expanded psiHB) you will be forced to struggle against him inside of AMF. a small detail: he will have all those cool spells that help in combat and you will have to turn with his base and str. Then for you archers forget the arches they are not able to save them. Extracted passage of SRD: Wild Shape (Su): At 5th level, a druid gains the ability to turn herself into any Small or Medium animal and back again once per day. Her options for new forms include all creatures with the animal type. This ability functions like the polymorph spell, except as noted here. The effect lasts for 1 hour per druid level, or until she changes back. Changing form (to animal or back) is a standard action and doesn’t provoke an attack of opportunity. The form chosen must be that of an animal the druid is familiar with. A druid loses her ability to speak while in animal form because she is limited to the sounds that a normal, untrained animal can make, but she can communicate normally with other animals of the same general grouping as her new form. (The normal sound a wild parrot makes is a squawk, so changing to this form does not permit speech.) A druid can use this ability more times per day at 6th, 7th, 10th, 14th, and 18th level, as noted on Table: The Druid. In addition, she gains the ability to take the shape of a Large animal at 8th level, a Tiny animal at 11th level, and a Huge animal at 15th level. The new form’s Hit Dice can’t exceed the character’s druid level. Then the druid will go if it transforms in some animal with at the most 13 HD.If win the initiative check. But if really the Clerig be irritated with you he can annihilate in a single round. All of us know that it is not difficult for a Clerig to get a high result in a turning check, then he can with the feat Divine spell power to get a + 4 for his caster level With that item of DMG the item of karma (not remember the name) he get other +4, with +1 gain that the domain of good. I can also use spell enhancer (PGoF) that gives me a +2 for caster level. it is not so difficult to get a +10 in the caster level. Now combine that with the spells dictum or holy word or the two in the same round, because his druid is not lawful good. The druid dies! clerigs are overpowers, the clerigs of Mystra healthy same overpowers among them. Conclusion: if you see a clerig with the mystra symbol run the maximum that it can for him not to stick to.
Nifft 07-03-04, 08:28 AM	Originally posted by Adan Northgan Now combine that with the spells dictum or holy word or the two in the same round, because his druid is not lawful good. The druid dies! Binding winds (CDivine) will prevent any [Sonic] effect from reaching you, and both dictum and holy word are [Sonic]. -- N
Vega_Engi 07-06-04, 03:21 AM	The snake is huge animal 11 HD, and it has impr. grapple and it does 4d8+40 in grapple. 2 attacks = (1d8+10 + constrict 1d8+10)x2. In 3.0 a level 6 druid could have it. What about 3.5?
Zeffan the Fighting Man 07-06-04, 08:18 AM	Originally posted by Vega_Engi The snake is huge animal 11 HD, and it has impr. grapple and it does 4d8+40 in grapple. 2 attacks = (1d8+10 + constrict 1d8+10)x2. In 3.0 a level 6 druid could have it. What about 3.5? 11th level. A druid's wild shape form HD may not exceed her level. Zeff
Potlok 07-06-04, 08:26 AM	I believe it's a Druid of 15th level since it's when he gets Huge Wild Shape. Pot
Zeffan the Fighting Man 07-06-04, 08:45 AM	Originally posted by Potlok I believe it's a Druid of 15th level since it's when he gets Huge Wild Shape. Pot Is THAT a huge animal? I thought it was only large. If so, you are correct, Potlok! Zeff
Potlok 07-06-04, 09:00 AM	The snake is huge animal 11 HD, and it has impr. grapple and it does 4d8+40 in grapple. 2 attacks = (1d8+10 + constrict 1d8+10)x2. I think it is Huge... Pot
RabidWeasel 07-06-04, 09:14 AM	He was actually asking about animal companions, not wildshape forms. Anyway, grappling is likely to be ineffective due to freedom of movement.
Zeffan the Fighting Man 07-06-04, 09:26 AM	Originally posted by RabidWeasel He was actually asking about animal companions, not wildshape forms. Anyway, grappling is likely to be ineffective due to freedom of movement. This is what happens when I look at the board before I get my morning coffee--I make an A$$ of myself. Huge animal. Right. 6th level (3.0) druid--the real question should have been obvious... Thanks Rabidweasel. I'm going toget my coffee, now. Zeff
Potlok 07-06-04, 09:42 AM	Aha...yeah, thought it was wildshape lol Pot
Vega_Engi 07-06-04, 10:01 AM	Really, I am curious, when is it possible to get that broken snake in the game as a companion? Just think about this 6th level druid. My 3.0 druid build is based on these major points: 1. Half-Orc druid with high Con and Str. Low wisdom, only buff spells (G. magic fangs and etc.). 2. Tan bag of tricks - 6300. 3. Animal companions (6x2 = 12HD) - Giant constrictor snake (11 HD), Wiper snake (1 HD) - poison damages Con. 4. Faery fire, potion of invis, potion of haste. 5. Wand of cure medium wounds. I would like to get something similar in 3.5.