149 hp Cured every day at 3rd Level! [Archive] - Wizards Community

149 hp Cured every day at 3rd Level! [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
dkot2
05-20-05, 12:41 AM How my character got to be so very good within his niche...
I’m using a poor point buy of 25 as illustration of potential.

??? Good Human (for spontaneous Cure casting)
25 Point Buy
Str 8 I carry my stuff, good ‘nuff
Dex 10 It’s a 25 point buy…something’s gotta give
Con 12 Having greater hp seems intuitive
Int 12 Need some skills early
Wis 13 The weakest stat that needs buffing, but…25 pts- Am
I going to be casting 9th level spells? HELP!
Cha 16 Bonuses for class features

1: Cleric (Pelor): Turn Undead, Spontaneous Casting, Healing (don’t care?) Domains, Augmented Healing and Sacred Boost Feats (both from Complete Divine), Max ranks in Concentration and Spellcraft [for Magic of the Land feat (Races of the Wild)], Knowledge (Religion), and Heal (for Augmented Healing feat)

2: Healer 1: Code of Conduct, Healing Hands, 4 ranks Knowledge (Nature), and 1 each in Knowledge (Religion; for Turning synergy bonus) and Spellcraft

3: Healer 2: Skill Focus (Heal) and Magic of the Land Feats after gaining ranks in Concentration and Knowledge (Nature), heal, and Pro (herbalist) (going for synergies)

--->>> MATH ALERT!!!

Healing Spells:

Turn Undead 6x per day (this is important to know for Sacred Boost calculations)

Daily Spells:
Cleric 4 orisons, 2+1 1st level, all Cure spells (including Healing
Domain)
Healer: 4 orisons, 5 1st level, all Cure spells.

Orisons:
4 = Cleric casting Cure Minor Wounds = 1hp x4
16 = Healer casting Cure Minor Wounds= [1 hp + 3 (Cha bonus)] x4

1st Level
75 = Healer casting Cure Light wounds = [1d8+2 hp (10 maximized, as per
Sacred Boost) + 3 (Cha bonus) + 2 (Augment Healing feat)] x5
12 = Cleric casting one Cure Light Wounds = [1d8+2 hp (Healing Domain)
(Maximized as per last remaining Sacred Boost feat/daily Turn Undead
attempts) + 2 (Augment Healing)]
2d8+8 = Cleric casting two Cure Light Wounds (2d8+4hp (Healing Domain)) + 4 (Augment Healing)

Assume that all spells cast in the wilderness, with Magic of the Land feat, and this nets the character +2 hp himself per spell cast, or an additional 32 hp to himself!.

Please double-check my math. I don’t care about BAB, but feel free to mention this other stuff as progression goes on…Enjoy!
carnivore
05-20-05, 08:20 AM if you only use the feat :Sacred Healing.......it gives Fast Healing 3 to all allies 60' radius......duration = Cha mod

so like this:

with an 18 Cha

feats:
Sacred Healing
extra turning

total number of turns= 11

3hp/round x 4 rounds = 12 hp per ally 60' radius

12 hp x 11 times per day = 132 hp healed per ally 60' radius per day

assume 4 creatures(yourself and 3 party members)

4 x 132 = 528 hp healed

and you did not even use a spell

and this can be done at 6th level

:D
Ashlan
05-20-05, 09:31 AM and this can be done at 1st level

:D

Actually, the Sacred Healing feat requires 8 ranks in the Heal skill, so the earliest you are likely to be able to do this is 6th level as that is the first available feat after getting 8 ranks.

However, spending all your spells on healing and having a low Wis score for a cleric and healer seem like bad ideas to me.

Ash
carnivore
05-20-05, 09:50 AM opps .... :embarrass forgot the skill req

:D
dkot2
05-20-05, 09:58 AM Thanks for the feedback. I agree that low Wis score hurts, and there's a weighty focus on healing spells. This is, of course, planned for optimization. The cleric's spells could be anything memorized, then dumped for cures.

I used the low stats as an example of the potential available. I hoped to generate some discussion about the subject, and wanted to give some room for other ideas.

So, do I take Magic of the Land or Extra Turning as my 3rd level feat (anticipating my 6th level feat already)?

Oh, Sacred Healing lasts for Cha +1, so there's even more healin' craziness!
waywreth
05-20-05, 11:40 AM if you only use the feat :Sacred Healing.......it gives Fast Healing 3 to all allies 60' radius......duration = Cha mod

I'm not positive if it's been changed, but in my copy of Complete Divine, it does not specify allies in the description of said feat - it says allies in the table, but all living creatures in the description.
Fwib
05-20-05, 11:48 AM 750gp = 1 Wand of Lesser Vigor = 550hp of fast healing 1 and no wasting all your class abilities.

(Vigor spells in complete divine)
carnivore
05-20-05, 11:59 AM I'm not positive if it's been changed, but in my copy of Complete Divine, it does not specify allies in the description of said feat - it says allies in the table, but all living creatures in the description.
excellent...i didnt have a copy of CD here to check

:D
Gol
05-20-05, 01:15 PM 750gp = 1 Wand of Lesser Vigor = 550hp of fast healing 1 and no wasting all your class abilities.

(Vigor spells in complete divine)
Persistent Lesser Vigor could (in theory) do up to 10 * 60 * 24 = 14,400 HP at level 1. Planning and Undeath domains for Bonus feats of Extend Spell and Extra Turning. Be a Human, use level 1 feats on Persistent and Divine Meta (persistent). You'll only need a Charisma of 10 for this. If you have a Charisma of 16, and take another Extra Turning at level 3, you can pull this off twice at level 3 for a grand total of 28,800 HP of healing every day.

At level 5, when you can cast Vigor (as opposed to Lesser Vigor), this total triples to 86,400, and that's only using 2 of your spells (assuming you have a 16 Wisdom and get a bonus level 3 spell). You'd still have your all of your level 1 and 2 spell slots open.
dkot2
05-20-05, 02:22 PM ohmigosh, thanks, Gol! This is incredible!
jedrious
05-20-05, 02:42 PM Persistent Lesser Vigor could (in theory) do up to 10 * 60 * 24 = 14,400 HP at level 1. Planning and Undeath domains for Bonus feats of Extend Spell and Extra Turning. Be a Human, use level 1 feats on Persistent and Divine Meta (persistent). You'll only need a Charisma of 10 for this. If you have a Charisma of 16, and take another Extra Turning at level 3, you can pull this off twice at level 3 for a grand total of 28,800 HP of healing every day.

At level 5, when you can cast Vigor (as opposed to Lesser Vigor), this total triples to 86,400, and that's only using 2 of your spells (assuming you have a 16 Wisdom and get a bonus level 3 spell). You'd still have your all of your level 1 and 2 spell slots open.
persistent = personal or fixed range, vigor = touch
Gol
05-20-05, 02:45 PM persistent = personal or fixed range, vigor = touch
Customer Service always (I've asked this repeatedly to make sure it wasn't a one-time fluke) says otherwise, stating that "touch" is a fixed range. Until there's official errata to say otherwise, Persisting non-discharge "touch" spells is ok according to RAW.
Fwib
05-20-05, 02:48 PM Persistent Lesser Vigor...
Persistent doesn't apply: Personal or fixed range spells only need apply. :(

I see other people got in there before me
Fwib
05-20-05, 02:56 PM Customer Service always (I've asked this repeatedly to make sure it wasn't a one-time fluke) says otherwise, stating that "touch" is a fixed range. Until there's official errata to say otherwise, Persisting non-discharge "touch" spells is ok according to RAW.
'touch' isn't a fixed range. It can be anything from 0ft all the way up to lots and lots, for really long collossal tentacles, not to mention other effects that allow other creatures/effects to deliver touch spells for you.

When it says 'fixed' it means you cannot vary the range. Many(all?) of the 'Range expressed in feet' (PHB p175) category fit this.
Gol
05-20-05, 03:01 PM 'touch' isn't a fixed range. It can be anything from 0ft all the way up to lots and lots, for really long collossal tentacles, not to mention other effects that allow other creatures/effects to deliver touch spells for you.

when it says 'fixed' it means 'range expressed in feet' (PHB p175)
"Touch" is merely the method of delivery. Once delivered, it's a very "personal" and "fixed" effect. The range is exactly 0 feet. Long tentacles or whatever, it still requires contact. Last I checked, the distance between 2 objects that are in contact is always 0 feet. Touch spells have a fixed range of 0 feet. Logic says this, and so does Customer Service. There's a big difference between "Touch" and "25 feet + 5 feet / level". Enough that "Touch" is Persisitable.

Go argue with Customer Service if you want to argue it.

Subject: Can you use the Persistant Spell metamagic feat on spells with a range of "Touch"?

Response (Chris L.) 04/05/2005 08:14 AM
Thank you for contacting us.
Actually yes, since its range is fixed (touch).
Good Gaming!

Chris L.
Customer Service Representative (orginally posted here (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=407298))
Fwib
05-20-05, 03:06 PM "Touch" is merely the method of delivery. Once delivered, it's a very "personal" and "fixed" effect. The range is exactly 0 feet. Long tentacles or whatever, it still requires contact. Last I checked, the distance between 2 objects that are in contact is always 0 feet. Touch spells have a fixed range of 0 feet. Logic says this, and so does Customer Service. There's a big difference between "Touch" and "25 feet + 5 feet / level". Enough that "Touch" is Persisitable.

Go argue with Customer Service if you want to argue it.[bolding mine]

Are you saying that an incantatrix can persist any spell with a duration with their metamagic in-place spell ability?
Gol
05-20-05, 03:09 PM Are you saying that an incantatrix can persist any spell with a duration with their metamagic in-place spell ability?
No, I'm saying you can Persist spells with a range of Touch. Let's not start getting hypothetical and extracting obviously absurd ideas from the words I use to explain myself.
Fwib
05-20-05, 03:29 PM No, I'm saying you can Persist spells with a range of Touch. Let's not start getting hypothetical and extracting obviously absurd ideas from the words I use to explain myself.Fair enough, unless there is clarifying wording somewhere and you can get your GM to allow it....
catharz
05-20-05, 03:37 PM Basically, a "fixed" range is any range which doesn't contain a variable. Or at least thats how I read it.
Gol
05-20-05, 03:44 PM Basically, a "fixed" range is any range which doesn't contain a variable. Or at least thats how I read it.Ditto. Touch has no variable.
Brent_Nall
05-20-05, 04:00 PM Hey, I've got an easier solution to this one . . .

The spells in the Vigor family cannot have their duration extended in any way according . . . dammit, where is that link? OK, I can't find it right now, but I have seen it on Wizards.com that this is the case.

So, even if touch spells can be persisted with persistent spell (which IMC they can), the Vigor spells can NOT be persisted.
MechaboyDos
05-20-05, 04:01 PM Planning and Undeath domains for Bonus feats of Extend Spell and Extra Turning.

How exactly would you get both Domains? As far as the FR pantheon goes I don't see a deity that offers both of them.
Gol
05-20-05, 04:25 PM How exactly would you get both Domains? As far as the FR pantheon goes I don't see a deity that offers both of them.That's between you and your DM. I usually make up a lesser deity or something ;)
MechaboyDos
05-20-05, 05:15 PM Well I'm pretty sure that wouldn't fly with most DMs, heh. I know it wouldn't with mine. Too bad there isn't a way to do that RAW. Still, if you started with a higher Cha you could do it. Or you could do it by 3rd level at least, which still isn't bad.
Gol
05-20-05, 05:33 PM I normally do it with Character Flaws, but that's an optional rule (Unearthed Arcana).
CappyTheMule
05-20-05, 06:37 PM You don't need a God: You can be a cleric of a cause (http://www.giantitp.com/cgi-bin/GiantITP/ootscript?SK=80) . Just tell your DM that your cleric is all about making preparation for the inevitables in life, and would seek to preserve him/herself inany way possible.

Edit: Oh yeah, Hail Banjo!
Squirrelloid
05-20-05, 07:12 PM You don't need a God: You can be a cleric of a cause (http://www.giantitp.com/cgi-bin/GiantITP/ootscript?SK=80) . Just tell your DM that your cleric is all about making preparation for the inevitables in life, and would seek to preserve him/herself inany way possible.

Edit: Oh yeah, Hail Banjo!

Well, since the objection is for Faerun, there's a problem. Faerun says Clerics must worship a deity; no causes.

For what its worth, i think touch spells are persistable. Its range 0. There is no range variable. Thats as fixed as it gets.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
dkot2 05-20-05, 12:41 AM	How my character got to be so very good within his niche... I’m using a poor point buy of 25 as illustration of potential. ??? Good Human (for spontaneous Cure casting) 25 Point Buy Str 8 I carry my stuff, good ‘nuff Dex 10 It’s a 25 point buy…something’s gotta give Con 12 Having greater hp seems intuitive Int 12 Need some skills early Wis 13 The weakest stat that needs buffing, but…25 pts- Am I going to be casting 9th level spells? HELP! Cha 16 Bonuses for class features 1: Cleric (Pelor): Turn Undead, Spontaneous Casting, Healing (don’t care?) Domains, Augmented Healing and Sacred Boost Feats (both from Complete Divine), Max ranks in Concentration and Spellcraft [for Magic of the Land feat (Races of the Wild)], Knowledge (Religion), and Heal (for Augmented Healing feat) 2: Healer 1: Code of Conduct, Healing Hands, 4 ranks Knowledge (Nature), and 1 each in Knowledge (Religion; for Turning synergy bonus) and Spellcraft 3: Healer 2: Skill Focus (Heal) and Magic of the Land Feats after gaining ranks in Concentration and Knowledge (Nature), heal, and Pro (herbalist) (going for synergies) --->>> MATH ALERT!!! Healing Spells: Turn Undead 6x per day (this is important to know for Sacred Boost calculations) Daily Spells: Cleric 4 orisons, 2+1 1st level, all Cure spells (including Healing Domain) Healer: 4 orisons, 5 1st level, all Cure spells. Orisons: 4 = Cleric casting Cure Minor Wounds = 1hp x4 16 = Healer casting Cure Minor Wounds= [1 hp + 3 (Cha bonus)] x4 1st Level 75 = Healer casting Cure Light wounds = [1d8+2 hp (10 maximized, as per Sacred Boost) + 3 (Cha bonus) + 2 (Augment Healing feat)] x5 12 = Cleric casting one Cure Light Wounds = [1d8+2 hp (Healing Domain) (Maximized as per last remaining Sacred Boost feat/daily Turn Undead attempts) + 2 (Augment Healing)] 2d8+8 = Cleric casting two Cure Light Wounds (2d8+4hp (Healing Domain)) + 4 (Augment Healing) Assume that all spells cast in the wilderness, with Magic of the Land feat, and this nets the character +2 hp himself per spell cast, or an additional 32 hp to himself!. Please double-check my math. I don’t care about BAB, but feel free to mention this other stuff as progression goes on…Enjoy!
carnivore 05-20-05, 08:20 AM	if you only use the feat :Sacred Healing.......it gives Fast Healing 3 to all allies 60' radius......duration = Cha mod so like this: with an 18 Cha feats: Sacred Healing extra turning total number of turns= 11 3hp/round x 4 rounds = 12 hp per ally 60' radius 12 hp x 11 times per day = 132 hp healed per ally 60' radius per day assume 4 creatures(yourself and 3 party members) 4 x 132 = 528 hp healed and you did not even use a spell and this can be done at 6th level :D
Ashlan 05-20-05, 09:31 AM	and this can be done at 1st level :D Actually, the Sacred Healing feat requires 8 ranks in the Heal skill, so the earliest you are likely to be able to do this is 6th level as that is the first available feat after getting 8 ranks. However, spending all your spells on healing and having a low Wis score for a cleric and healer seem like bad ideas to me. Ash
carnivore 05-20-05, 09:50 AM	opps .... :embarrass forgot the skill req :D
dkot2 05-20-05, 09:58 AM	Thanks for the feedback. I agree that low Wis score hurts, and there's a weighty focus on healing spells. This is, of course, planned for optimization. The cleric's spells could be anything memorized, then dumped for cures. I used the low stats as an example of the potential available. I hoped to generate some discussion about the subject, and wanted to give some room for other ideas. So, do I take Magic of the Land or Extra Turning as my 3rd level feat (anticipating my 6th level feat already)? Oh, Sacred Healing lasts for Cha +1, so there's even more healin' craziness!
waywreth 05-20-05, 11:40 AM	if you only use the feat :Sacred Healing.......it gives Fast Healing 3 to all allies 60' radius......duration = Cha mod I'm not positive if it's been changed, but in my copy of Complete Divine, it does not specify allies in the description of said feat - it says allies in the table, but all living creatures in the description.
Fwib 05-20-05, 11:48 AM	750gp = 1 Wand of Lesser Vigor = 550hp of fast healing 1 and no wasting all your class abilities. (Vigor spells in complete divine)
carnivore 05-20-05, 11:59 AM	I'm not positive if it's been changed, but in my copy of Complete Divine, it does not specify allies in the description of said feat - it says allies in the table, but all living creatures in the description. excellent...i didnt have a copy of CD here to check :D
Gol 05-20-05, 01:15 PM	750gp = 1 Wand of Lesser Vigor = 550hp of fast healing 1 and no wasting all your class abilities. (Vigor spells in complete divine) Persistent Lesser Vigor could (in theory) do up to 10 * 60 * 24 = 14,400 HP at level 1. Planning and Undeath domains for Bonus feats of Extend Spell and Extra Turning. Be a Human, use level 1 feats on Persistent and Divine Meta (persistent). You'll only need a Charisma of 10 for this. If you have a Charisma of 16, and take another Extra Turning at level 3, you can pull this off twice at level 3 for a grand total of 28,800 HP of healing every day. At level 5, when you can cast Vigor (as opposed to Lesser Vigor), this total triples to 86,400, and that's only using 2 of your spells (assuming you have a 16 Wisdom and get a bonus level 3 spell). You'd still have your all of your level 1 and 2 spell slots open.
dkot2 05-20-05, 02:22 PM	ohmigosh, thanks, Gol! This is incredible!
jedrious 05-20-05, 02:42 PM	Persistent Lesser Vigor could (in theory) do up to 10 * 60 * 24 = 14,400 HP at level 1. Planning and Undeath domains for Bonus feats of Extend Spell and Extra Turning. Be a Human, use level 1 feats on Persistent and Divine Meta (persistent). You'll only need a Charisma of 10 for this. If you have a Charisma of 16, and take another Extra Turning at level 3, you can pull this off twice at level 3 for a grand total of 28,800 HP of healing every day. At level 5, when you can cast Vigor (as opposed to Lesser Vigor), this total triples to 86,400, and that's only using 2 of your spells (assuming you have a 16 Wisdom and get a bonus level 3 spell). You'd still have your all of your level 1 and 2 spell slots open. persistent = personal or fixed range, vigor = touch
Gol 05-20-05, 02:45 PM	persistent = personal or fixed range, vigor = touch Customer Service always (I've asked this repeatedly to make sure it wasn't a one-time fluke) says otherwise, stating that "touch" is a fixed range. Until there's official errata to say otherwise, Persisting non-discharge "touch" spells is ok according to RAW.
Fwib 05-20-05, 02:48 PM	Persistent Lesser Vigor... Persistent doesn't apply: Personal or fixed range spells only need apply. :( I see other people got in there before me
Fwib 05-20-05, 02:56 PM	Customer Service always (I've asked this repeatedly to make sure it wasn't a one-time fluke) says otherwise, stating that "touch" is a fixed range. Until there's official errata to say otherwise, Persisting non-discharge "touch" spells is ok according to RAW. 'touch' isn't a fixed range. It can be anything from 0ft all the way up to lots and lots, for really long collossal tentacles, not to mention other effects that allow other creatures/effects to deliver touch spells for you. When it says 'fixed' it means you cannot vary the range. Many(all?) of the 'Range expressed in feet' (PHB p175) category fit this.
Gol 05-20-05, 03:01 PM	'touch' isn't a fixed range. It can be anything from 0ft all the way up to lots and lots, for really long collossal tentacles, not to mention other effects that allow other creatures/effects to deliver touch spells for you. when it says 'fixed' it means 'range expressed in feet' (PHB p175) "Touch" is merely the method of delivery. Once delivered, it's a very "personal" and "fixed" effect. The range is exactly 0 feet. Long tentacles or whatever, it still requires contact. Last I checked, the distance between 2 objects that are in contact is always 0 feet. Touch spells have a fixed range of 0 feet. Logic says this, and so does Customer Service. There's a big difference between "Touch" and "25 feet + 5 feet / level". Enough that "Touch" is Persisitable. Go argue with Customer Service if you want to argue it. Subject: Can you use the Persistant Spell metamagic feat on spells with a range of "Touch"? Response (Chris L.) 04/05/2005 08:14 AM Thank you for contacting us. Actually yes, since its range is fixed (touch). Good Gaming! Chris L. Customer Service Representative (orginally posted here (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=407298))
Fwib 05-20-05, 03:06 PM	"Touch" is merely the method of delivery. Once delivered, it's a very "personal" and "fixed" effect. The range is exactly 0 feet. Long tentacles or whatever, it still requires contact. Last I checked, the distance between 2 objects that are in contact is always 0 feet. Touch spells have a fixed range of 0 feet. Logic says this, and so does Customer Service. There's a big difference between "Touch" and "25 feet + 5 feet / level". Enough that "Touch" is Persisitable. Go argue with Customer Service if you want to argue it.[bolding mine] Are you saying that an incantatrix can persist any spell with a duration with their metamagic in-place spell ability?
Gol 05-20-05, 03:09 PM	Are you saying that an incantatrix can persist any spell with a duration with their metamagic in-place spell ability? No, I'm saying you can Persist spells with a range of Touch. Let's not start getting hypothetical and extracting obviously absurd ideas from the words I use to explain myself.
Fwib 05-20-05, 03:29 PM	No, I'm saying you can Persist spells with a range of Touch. Let's not start getting hypothetical and extracting obviously absurd ideas from the words I use to explain myself.Fair enough, unless there is clarifying wording somewhere and you can get your GM to allow it....
catharz 05-20-05, 03:37 PM	Basically, a "fixed" range is any range which doesn't contain a variable. Or at least thats how I read it.
Gol 05-20-05, 03:44 PM	Basically, a "fixed" range is any range which doesn't contain a variable. Or at least thats how I read it.Ditto. Touch has no variable.
Brent_Nall 05-20-05, 04:00 PM	Hey, I've got an easier solution to this one . . . The spells in the Vigor family cannot have their duration extended in any way according . . . dammit, where is that link? OK, I can't find it right now, but I have seen it on Wizards.com that this is the case. So, even if touch spells can be persisted with persistent spell (which IMC they can), the Vigor spells can NOT be persisted.
MechaboyDos 05-20-05, 04:01 PM	Planning and Undeath domains for Bonus feats of Extend Spell and Extra Turning. How exactly would you get both Domains? As far as the FR pantheon goes I don't see a deity that offers both of them.
Gol 05-20-05, 04:25 PM	How exactly would you get both Domains? As far as the FR pantheon goes I don't see a deity that offers both of them.That's between you and your DM. I usually make up a lesser deity or something ;)
MechaboyDos 05-20-05, 05:15 PM	Well I'm pretty sure that wouldn't fly with most DMs, heh. I know it wouldn't with mine. Too bad there isn't a way to do that RAW. Still, if you started with a higher Cha you could do it. Or you could do it by 3rd level at least, which still isn't bad.
Gol 05-20-05, 05:33 PM	I normally do it with Character Flaws, but that's an optional rule (Unearthed Arcana).
CappyTheMule 05-20-05, 06:37 PM	You don't need a God: You can be a cleric of a cause (http://www.giantitp.com/cgi-bin/GiantITP/ootscript?SK=80) . Just tell your DM that your cleric is all about making preparation for the inevitables in life, and would seek to preserve him/herself inany way possible. Edit: Oh yeah, Hail Banjo!
Squirrelloid 05-20-05, 07:12 PM	You don't need a God: You can be a cleric of a cause (http://www.giantitp.com/cgi-bin/GiantITP/ootscript?SK=80) . Just tell your DM that your cleric is all about making preparation for the inevitables in life, and would seek to preserve him/herself inany way possible. Edit: Oh yeah, Hail Banjo! Well, since the objection is for Faerun, there's a problem. Faerun says Clerics must worship a deity; no causes. For what its worth, i think touch spells are persistable. Its range 0. There is no range variable. Thats as fixed as it gets.