15 ftr or 15 cleric? [Archive] - Wizards Community

15 ftr or 15 cleric? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Phase
01-20-06, 01:28 AM Reading through the boards and came across Presistance divine power... thinking of this makes me rethink the battle cleric alot, kinda wondering if its even worth takeing ftr at all.. feats are good, yes of course, but when you have a spell like that.. who needs them? Like iv seen before, they should just rename the fighter "guy"

Other then that, would it be worth sacrificing the feats for divine powers? Btw, house rule is that we stack everything, dont worry though, everything we fight has roughly 200hp+ more tho, but im thinking.. Im going elven ftr/maybe cleric 2weapon fighter, would it be worth just going cleric over fighters feats?

-What id miss out on (feat wise)
Two weapon def
weapon spec/greater, and greater focus
imp. buckler def

-What id get for cleric
1 - TWF
3 - Oversized TWF
6 - Karmic Strike
9 - Imp. TWF
12 - Combat Ref
15 - Greater TWF
Regional: (we choose our past, so may take any feat) Weapon Finesse

Id have to prolly get rid of one of those to throw in Metamagic: Presistant spell, dunno which tho
PhoenixInferno
01-20-06, 01:33 AM If you really want help for your build, you really should rewrite your post so that its...I don't know...comprehensible? Yeah, comprehensible is a good word.
Phase
01-20-06, 01:36 AM If you really want help for your build, you really should rewrite your post so that its...I don't know...comprehensible? Yeah, comprehensible is a good word.

sorry if you cant comprehend it, pretty streight forward.. Clerics can just divine power to get full BaB, buff themselves, and (havnt really looked yet) prolly have some mad boosts to armor via spells, so really is the loss of feats worth it for the divine spells or not
PhoenixInferno
01-20-06, 01:40 AM sorry if you cant comprehend it, pretty streight forward..
WOW. Listen, I know how to write complete sentences - you apparently can't. THAT is what I mean by comprehensible. And what about your house rule that "everything stacks"? What does that mean exactly? What books do you have? What are your stats? Is that build for your Cleric or is that the Fighter build you're going to compare effectiveness with?

You also seem to be missing out on the Persistant Divine Power that you want.
Phase
01-20-06, 01:49 AM WOW. Listen, I know how to write complete sentences - you apparently can't. THAT is what I mean by comprehensible. And what about your house rule that "everything stacks"? What does that mean exactly? What books do you have? What are your stats? Is that build for your Cleric or is that the Fighter build you're going to compare effectiveness with?

You also seem to be missing out on the Persistant Divine Power that you want.

Its the internet, get a life. See, I can write like you if I felt like it. but i dont and no one cares.. sorry, everything stacks aka EVERYTHING STACKS, and if you didnt get it the first time, then in my second post you should of relized that me saying it would count for everything and anything by buffing (bulls str wouldnt stack with other "enhancement" bonuses. Stats are unimportant, and it says what id be missing out on if i went cleric over fighter, and at the bottom of my post it says something about the Presistant.. So either you help tell me why i wouldnt want to go cleric, pros and cons, or dont post =/
Phase
01-20-06, 02:04 AM hrmm.. just found Presistant Spell, not ganna work at my level.. 6 spell slots higher then normal when divine power is 4, definlty not going to have 10th lvl spell slots for quite awhile
warok
01-20-06, 02:16 AM so inpolite,
so don't expect much help

go read the faq in the stickies
http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=207643

come back with grammar, proper spelling, sources available, a sample build

there are ways to get persistant divine power at cleric 7
Slyver
01-20-06, 03:38 AM Its the internet, get a life. See, I can write like you if I felt like it. but i dont and no one cares.. sorry, everything stacks aka EVERYTHING STACKS, and if you didnt get it the first time, then in my second post you should of relized that me saying it would count for everything and anything by buffing (bulls str wouldnt stack with other "enhancement" bonuses. Stats are unimportant, and it says what id be missing out on if i went cleric over fighter, and at the bottom of my post it says something about the Presistant.. So either you help tell me why i wouldnt want to go cleric, pros and cons, or dont post =/

Was Phoenix's response somewhat rude? Yes, so I can understand you taking offense at it, although i promise you it will in no way help your cause because...

Was it a reasonable response to your post? Yes.

Your post makes little sense. Why? Because on the CO board we tear apart the english language that our precious dnd books are written in to find loopholes and synergies to create powerful characters as a matter of course. Thats what we do. When you come here, expect to be criticized if your writing is incoherent. The response was not hypercritical, it was more a request for clarification than anything else.

For instance, he asked you what it meant that everything stacked in your game world. Your response was "EVERYTHING STACKS". We understand what "stacks" means, that is difficult to misconstrue, what we do not understand is the word "everything".

Let me tell you how I decipher that statement. I think you mean that all subatomic particles in the universe in question, seen as energy in the geometric form of a heterotic string have been superimposed upon each other to create a super-particle/string containing the entirety of said universe. This makes for a very unplayable game world, therefore I am forced to suppose that I am misinterpreting your statement. Thus the reason I also am asking for clarification.

Thanks,

Slyver
PhoenixInferno
01-20-06, 03:55 AM Allow me to retort to an obviously uninformed individual.
Its the internet, get a life. See, I can write like you if I felt like it. but i dont and no one cares..
Since you're getting so worked up, you clearly do care. I'd wager your English teacher cares if you can write/spell with a modicum of intelligence.

sorry, everything stacks aka EVERYTHING STACKS, and if you didnt get it the first time, then in my second post you should of relized that me saying it would count for everything and anything by buffing (bulls str wouldnt stack with other "enhancement" bonuses.
So if everything stacks, why wouldn't Bull's Strength stack with other enhancement bonuses? OH - I KNOW WHY - YOU HAVEN'T DEFINED WHAT "EVERYTHING STACKS" MEANS YET. And its a run-on sentence. The "." (period) is your friend.

Stats are unimportant, and it says what id be missing out on if i went cleric over fighter, and at the bottom of my post it says something about the Presistant.. So either you help tell me why i wouldnt want to go cleric, pros and cons, or dont post =/
Stats aren't important? They only determine what your damage output is, what your HP is, how powerful of a spell you can cast, what your attack bonus is, how many skill ranks you can train, what kind of bonuses you can apply to your skill checks, what feats you can qualify for, etc. I'd say they're pretty damn important.

Seems your Cleric is getting all sorts of Fighter feats - and no Persistant Spell anywhere (which of course has a prerequisite of Extend Spell - but of course, you knew that). So what "Persistant Cleric" are you proposing?
GaffeR
01-20-06, 04:07 AM 15 ftr or 15 cleric
NEITHER!

15th level gnome commoner. Max ranks in Craft (Basketweaving). Skill focus (Basketweaving).

Phase, learn to communicate properly. And please have a bit of respect for those whose help you're seeking and simply don't quite grasp what you're trying to convey. Phoenix, chill dude :D

As far as your question goes.. Cleric. What books are available? Try and grab the planning domain to get free Extend Spell. Pick up Persistant Spell and Divine Meta (Persistant) asap. Power Attack is your friend, especially over TWF. You should shell out more damage. Buy a wackload of Nightsticks (Libris Mortis) or take Extra Turning a few times. If you can afford the turning attempts, Divine Might/Divine Shield (with an animated shield) are good choices if you have charisma. If not, Spell Penetration and Greater Spell Pen are needed at high levels if you plan on using your spells on enemies.
Slyver
01-20-06, 04:45 AM So if everything stacks, why wouldn't Bull's Strength stack with other enhancement bonuses? OH - I KNOW WHY - YOU HAVEN'T DEFINED WHAT "EVERYTHING STACKS" MEANS YET. And its a run-on sentence. The "." (period) is your friend.

I helped to clarify it in my post Phoenix. Look above. Since no clarification is forthcoming assume this is what he meant and work from there.

Hmm, in which case all classes are equally powerful and the question has answered itself. The nerf-stick has become useless, although it's existence in any coherent state is by definition an impossibility..

Slyver
deathwishjoe
01-20-06, 05:02 AM hrmm.. just found Presistant Spell, not ganna work at my level.. 6 spell slots higher then normal when divine power is 4, definlty not going to have 10th lvl spell slots for quite awhile

Im guessing the OP has abandoned this thread. not only has he recieved a less them warm welcome but he doesnt seem to know of the brokeness of divine metamagic. what I want to know is how he learned about persistent divine power (my favorite cleric spell BTW) but not divine metamagic. ah well its probably for the better. his english skills got worse the more he became frustrated at other posters.

PS. it is my opinion that ANYTHING that lowers the cost of metamagic feats for ANY reason is broken. it just leads to too many things the system wasnt made for. although I would love something that would make the silent and still spell metamagic feats free to add on whenever I wanted.
Esponer
01-20-06, 05:04 AM -What id get for cleric
1 - TWF
3 - Oversized TWF
6 - Karmic Strike
9 - Imp. TWF
12 - Combat Ref
15 - Greater TWF
Regional: (we choose our past, so may take any feat) Weapon Finesse

Id have to prolly get rid of one of those to throw in Metamagic: Presistant spell, dunno which tho

I'm not seeing how you qualify for Karmic Strike at 6th level while apparently having none of the requirements.

Playing a combat-inclined cleric using Persistent Spell and Divine Metamagic to let you break the 9th level limit is better than playing a fighter.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Phase 01-20-06, 01:28 AM	Reading through the boards and came across Presistance divine power... thinking of this makes me rethink the battle cleric alot, kinda wondering if its even worth takeing ftr at all.. feats are good, yes of course, but when you have a spell like that.. who needs them? Like iv seen before, they should just rename the fighter "guy" Other then that, would it be worth sacrificing the feats for divine powers? Btw, house rule is that we stack everything, dont worry though, everything we fight has roughly 200hp+ more tho, but im thinking.. Im going elven ftr/maybe cleric 2weapon fighter, would it be worth just going cleric over fighters feats? -What id miss out on (feat wise) Two weapon def weapon spec/greater, and greater focus imp. buckler def -What id get for cleric 1 - TWF 3 - Oversized TWF 6 - Karmic Strike 9 - Imp. TWF 12 - Combat Ref 15 - Greater TWF Regional: (we choose our past, so may take any feat) Weapon Finesse Id have to prolly get rid of one of those to throw in Metamagic: Presistant spell, dunno which tho
PhoenixInferno 01-20-06, 01:33 AM	If you really want help for your build, you really should rewrite your post so that its...I don't know...comprehensible? Yeah, comprehensible is a good word.
Phase 01-20-06, 01:36 AM	If you really want help for your build, you really should rewrite your post so that its...I don't know...comprehensible? Yeah, comprehensible is a good word. sorry if you cant comprehend it, pretty streight forward.. Clerics can just divine power to get full BaB, buff themselves, and (havnt really looked yet) prolly have some mad boosts to armor via spells, so really is the loss of feats worth it for the divine spells or not
PhoenixInferno 01-20-06, 01:40 AM	sorry if you cant comprehend it, pretty streight forward.. WOW. Listen, I know how to write complete sentences - you apparently can't. THAT is what I mean by comprehensible. And what about your house rule that "everything stacks"? What does that mean exactly? What books do you have? What are your stats? Is that build for your Cleric or is that the Fighter build you're going to compare effectiveness with? You also seem to be missing out on the Persistant Divine Power that you want.
Phase 01-20-06, 01:49 AM	WOW. Listen, I know how to write complete sentences - you apparently can't. THAT is what I mean by comprehensible. And what about your house rule that "everything stacks"? What does that mean exactly? What books do you have? What are your stats? Is that build for your Cleric or is that the Fighter build you're going to compare effectiveness with? You also seem to be missing out on the Persistant Divine Power that you want. Its the internet, get a life. See, I can write like you if I felt like it. but i dont and no one cares.. sorry, everything stacks aka EVERYTHING STACKS, and if you didnt get it the first time, then in my second post you should of relized that me saying it would count for everything and anything by buffing (bulls str wouldnt stack with other "enhancement" bonuses. Stats are unimportant, and it says what id be missing out on if i went cleric over fighter, and at the bottom of my post it says something about the Presistant.. So either you help tell me why i wouldnt want to go cleric, pros and cons, or dont post =/
Phase 01-20-06, 02:04 AM	hrmm.. just found Presistant Spell, not ganna work at my level.. 6 spell slots higher then normal when divine power is 4, definlty not going to have 10th lvl spell slots for quite awhile
warok 01-20-06, 02:16 AM	so inpolite, so don't expect much help go read the faq in the stickies http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=207643 come back with grammar, proper spelling, sources available, a sample build there are ways to get persistant divine power at cleric 7
Slyver 01-20-06, 03:38 AM	Its the internet, get a life. See, I can write like you if I felt like it. but i dont and no one cares.. sorry, everything stacks aka EVERYTHING STACKS, and if you didnt get it the first time, then in my second post you should of relized that me saying it would count for everything and anything by buffing (bulls str wouldnt stack with other "enhancement" bonuses. Stats are unimportant, and it says what id be missing out on if i went cleric over fighter, and at the bottom of my post it says something about the Presistant.. So either you help tell me why i wouldnt want to go cleric, pros and cons, or dont post =/ Was Phoenix's response somewhat rude? Yes, so I can understand you taking offense at it, although i promise you it will in no way help your cause because... Was it a reasonable response to your post? Yes. Your post makes little sense. Why? Because on the CO board we tear apart the english language that our precious dnd books are written in to find loopholes and synergies to create powerful characters as a matter of course. Thats what we do. When you come here, expect to be criticized if your writing is incoherent. The response was not hypercritical, it was more a request for clarification than anything else. For instance, he asked you what it meant that everything stacked in your game world. Your response was "EVERYTHING STACKS". We understand what "stacks" means, that is difficult to misconstrue, what we do not understand is the word "everything". Let me tell you how I decipher that statement. I think you mean that all subatomic particles in the universe in question, seen as energy in the geometric form of a heterotic string have been superimposed upon each other to create a super-particle/string containing the entirety of said universe. This makes for a very unplayable game world, therefore I am forced to suppose that I am misinterpreting your statement. Thus the reason I also am asking for clarification. Thanks, Slyver
PhoenixInferno 01-20-06, 03:55 AM	Allow me to retort to an obviously uninformed individual. Its the internet, get a life. See, I can write like you if I felt like it. but i dont and no one cares.. Since you're getting so worked up, you clearly do care. I'd wager your English teacher cares if you can write/spell with a modicum of intelligence. sorry, everything stacks aka EVERYTHING STACKS, and if you didnt get it the first time, then in my second post you should of relized that me saying it would count for everything and anything by buffing (bulls str wouldnt stack with other "enhancement" bonuses. So if everything stacks, why wouldn't Bull's Strength stack with other enhancement bonuses? OH - I KNOW WHY - YOU HAVEN'T DEFINED WHAT "EVERYTHING STACKS" MEANS YET. And its a run-on sentence. The "." (period) is your friend. Stats are unimportant, and it says what id be missing out on if i went cleric over fighter, and at the bottom of my post it says something about the Presistant.. So either you help tell me why i wouldnt want to go cleric, pros and cons, or dont post =/ Stats aren't important? They only determine what your damage output is, what your HP is, how powerful of a spell you can cast, what your attack bonus is, how many skill ranks you can train, what kind of bonuses you can apply to your skill checks, what feats you can qualify for, etc. I'd say they're pretty damn important. Seems your Cleric is getting all sorts of Fighter feats - and no Persistant Spell anywhere (which of course has a prerequisite of Extend Spell - but of course, you knew that). So what "Persistant Cleric" are you proposing?
GaffeR 01-20-06, 04:07 AM	15 ftr or 15 cleric NEITHER! 15th level gnome commoner. Max ranks in Craft (Basketweaving). Skill focus (Basketweaving). Phase, learn to communicate properly. And please have a bit of respect for those whose help you're seeking and simply don't quite grasp what you're trying to convey. Phoenix, chill dude :D As far as your question goes.. Cleric. What books are available? Try and grab the planning domain to get free Extend Spell. Pick up Persistant Spell and Divine Meta (Persistant) asap. Power Attack is your friend, especially over TWF. You should shell out more damage. Buy a wackload of Nightsticks (Libris Mortis) or take Extra Turning a few times. If you can afford the turning attempts, Divine Might/Divine Shield (with an animated shield) are good choices if you have charisma. If not, Spell Penetration and Greater Spell Pen are needed at high levels if you plan on using your spells on enemies.
Slyver 01-20-06, 04:45 AM	So if everything stacks, why wouldn't Bull's Strength stack with other enhancement bonuses? OH - I KNOW WHY - YOU HAVEN'T DEFINED WHAT "EVERYTHING STACKS" MEANS YET. And its a run-on sentence. The "." (period) is your friend. I helped to clarify it in my post Phoenix. Look above. Since no clarification is forthcoming assume this is what he meant and work from there. Hmm, in which case all classes are equally powerful and the question has answered itself. The nerf-stick has become useless, although it's existence in any coherent state is by definition an impossibility.. Slyver
deathwishjoe 01-20-06, 05:02 AM	hrmm.. just found Presistant Spell, not ganna work at my level.. 6 spell slots higher then normal when divine power is 4, definlty not going to have 10th lvl spell slots for quite awhile Im guessing the OP has abandoned this thread. not only has he recieved a less them warm welcome but he doesnt seem to know of the brokeness of divine metamagic. what I want to know is how he learned about persistent divine power (my favorite cleric spell BTW) but not divine metamagic. ah well its probably for the better. his english skills got worse the more he became frustrated at other posters. PS. it is my opinion that ANYTHING that lowers the cost of metamagic feats for ANY reason is broken. it just leads to too many things the system wasnt made for. although I would love something that would make the silent and still spell metamagic feats free to add on whenever I wanted.
Esponer 01-20-06, 05:04 AM	-What id get for cleric 1 - TWF 3 - Oversized TWF 6 - Karmic Strike 9 - Imp. TWF 12 - Combat Ref 15 - Greater TWF Regional: (we choose our past, so may take any feat) Weapon Finesse Id have to prolly get rid of one of those to throw in Metamagic: Presistant spell, dunno which tho I'm not seeing how you qualify for Karmic Strike at 6th level while apparently having none of the requirements. Playing a combat-inclined cleric using Persistent Spell and Divine Metamagic to let you break the 9th level limit is better than playing a fighter.