Post/Author/DateTime	Post
kjamma4 02-23-05, 05:27 PM	My character got killed last night and my DM challenged me to come up with a new character with these limitations: -15th level gestalt Fighter/Monk -Use only the three core books, the Unearthed Arcana gestalt rules, the Book of Exalted Deeds, and Complete Warrior (since these are the only ones he has) I figure on making him/her human and will take the Sacred Vow and the Vow of Poverty at first level. Also, I'm leaning on taking all the weapon feats (Focus, Specialization, Improved Critical, etc.) for unarmed strike. The stats I rolled for first level are 17, 14, 14, 13, 11, 9. Where should I put these stats? How should I increase them? What feats/skills should I take? I kind of glanced through the Book of Exalted Deeds and it seemed like there might not be enough Exalted feats for me to take. I'm envisioning this character to be either a straight toe-to-toe combatant or possibly one that works in conjunction with with another fighter type (maybe by tripping, grappling, etc.) Help. Please.
Furry Rodent 02-23-05, 07:58 PM	Do you have any say on possibly changing some of the fighter levels. Anything after 6th level is really too much. The build somewhat depends on this.
kjamma4 02-23-05, 09:11 PM	Do you have any say on possibly changing some of the fighter levels. Anything after 6th level is really too much. The build somewhat depends on this. Not really. As he (and actually all of us) are new to the whole Gestalt concept, he wants to keep it only two classes (and no Prestige classes) at the same level. Due to the Vow of Poverty, I envision this character fighting unarmed as a Monk with the Fighter levels contributing a bunch of feats as well as hit points. As far as the Fighter feats go, I'm leaning toward (Greater) Weapon Specialization, (Greater) Weapon Focus, and Improved Critical [all applied to Unarmed Strike.] As I said, I think he will be one of the bruisers in the group rather than a support character. Suggestions? P.S. Please explain more regarding why Fighter levels after 6 are too much???
Lavis Knight 02-23-05, 09:24 PM	Monk/Swashbuckler, finnesse your fists ^_^? I would also suggest against VOP, i find it wanes at later levels. -Lavis :fight!:
KikUSquaNtheNuts 02-23-05, 10:16 PM	How about a Druid/Monk. Wildshape and then flurry. You should get plenty of attacks. If you're going to use Vow of Poverty, I would suggest taking something other than fighter. Vow of Poverty = bonus feats, Fighter = bonus feats. There just aren't enough valuable feats that fit a theme for you to get good use of that many.
PhaedrusXY 02-23-05, 10:43 PM	I don't own Complete Warrior, but I think the following feats are in there: Freezing the Lifeblood, a feat that lets you flurry with a spear (Serpent Strike?) and/or a feat that lets you use a Longsword in a flurry. I'd get the first one for sure, and maybe one of the others. Using your fists is great, but I'd at least keep a few backup weapons for creatures with Damage Reductions that you can't beat with your fists. And using a Spear + monk unarmed strike to threaten at both 5 ft. and 10 ft. is nice. A guisarme is even better, but you won't be able to flurry with it unless you convince your DM to let you use it with Serpent Strike (or whatever it's called). If you go with a guisarme, take Combat Reflexes and Improved Trip. Later on, the Sun School tactical feat is good. Are you starting at level 15 with this character?
frisbeet 02-23-05, 10:49 PM	Haven't done the damage/round analysis, but with some of the monk unarmed attack special abilities, you may want TWF/iTWF w/ 17 Dex. Couple that with flurry of blows as these stack. But everything should point towards maxing Str otherwise.
Kintara 02-23-05, 10:55 PM	Hmm, well, if you like VoP, you should probably have that inform your ability score arrangements quite a bit, especially in the case of feat choices. I'd probably go with something like: Nymph's Kiss Sanctify Ki Holy Ki Touch of Golden Ice Fist of the Heavens Intuitive Attack Quell the Profane Nimbus Holy Radiance Obviously, the choices become less ideal as you go, but those first ones are quite nice. You'll need a Cha of 15, so you'll need to drop a 14 down on it (and bump it with a level bonus). If you go with Intuitive Attack, you might as well put your 17 into Wis, and put the other 14 in Str. Touch of Golden Ice is worth it, so a Con 13 would be good. If you go with something other than Fighter, your Exalted feat choices become more interesting. Nemesis, for example, quite impressed me when I took it in my VoP build. Paladins get a whole bunch of Exalted feats devoted to them (though some are rather mediocre). If you go with Fighter, you'll probably need to finish up with more Vows. The save bonuses are nice, but not crucial. Compete Warrior has a lot of feats a Monk could take. You'll have a good Stunning Fist if you drop that 17 in Wis, so you might want to look over the feats that take advantage of it. Edit: The sword/spear flurry feats are in the Eberron book.
PhoenixInferno 02-23-05, 11:07 PM	Definitely skip on the Vow of Poverty if you plan on playing til high levels. A Druid/Monk would be nice for WIS synergy - Wildshape into a Dire Ape and beat on things. Unlike my peers, I feel that Fighter 20 is a fine Gestalt choice - how many times do you wish that you had more feats? This is the best way to get 'em. Basically, you're a Monk with full BAB, slightly larger HD, and WAY more combat feats.
kjamma4 02-24-05, 10:47 AM	Definitely skip on the Vow of Poverty if you plan on playing til high levels. A Druid/Monk would be nice for WIS synergy - Wildshape into a Dire Ape and beat on things. Unlike my peers, I feel that Fighter 20 is a fine Gestalt choice - how many times do you wish that you had more feats? This is the best way to get 'em. Basically, you're a Monk with full BAB, slightly larger HD, and WAY more combat feats. Well, I'm kinda stuck using Fighter/Monk and VoP due to what the other party members are (and the DM sorta challenged me to do it.) I too agree that the benefit of Fighter is the feats. I think that the Exalted feats "Kintara" mentioned are what I'm going to take. Since I can't take feats from Eberron, I can't go with the Flurry/Spear or Flurry/Longsword combo (it sounds interesting but with the Vow of Poverty, I wouldn't have magic weapons so I think fists doing 2d6 damage would be better?). [On a side note, "Frisbeet" posted (you may want TWF/iTWF w/ 17 Dex. Couple that with flurry of blows as these stack). Is this correct?]
frisbeet 02-24-05, 11:27 AM	as far as TWF/flurry stacking--there was a lot of debate on this issue way back...sorry I don't have time right now to post thread links... it has been a subject for debate, but I think the consesus was 1). probably strictly legal 2). damage/round-wise, not that much better as you still must enforce stacking flurry and TWF attack bonus penalties 3). but with more attacks and monk special abilities, very cool