15th level Mage Build help [Archive] - Wizards Community

15th level Mage Build help [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
SlatzGrubnik
01-10-07, 08:04 PM Ok, im makin a mage (obviously)... have a few ideas for it, but no real direction really, other than to stay away from crafting... here's a few ideas i have, and these are by no means complete or final.. Please dont abbreviate...

Venerable Sun Elf (Generalist Mage 1st level racial substitution)
Wizard 5/ Incantrix 10
[Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting, Races of the Wild, Players Guide to Faerun]

Human
Evoker 5/ Incantrix 10

Human
Evoker 5/ Master Specialist 10
[Complete Mage]

Venerable Human
Evoker 5/ Bonded Summoner 10
[Miniatures Handbook]

Anyone have any better ideas? :surrender
GaffeR
01-10-07, 08:29 PM I vote for the first one, except not Venerable. -6 to all physical stats is suicide. Mix with a healthy dose of metamagic (Persistent, Quicken, whatever else you like), bonuses to spellcraft (custom +30 item), maybe Extraordinary spell aim for your AMFs.
DaveTheMagicWeasel
01-10-07, 08:46 PM Either ot the two involving Incantrix would be my choice.

And, iirc, Bonded Summoner loses 5 levels of progression doesn't it?

I wouldn't touch that with a barge pole.
SlatzGrubnik
01-10-07, 08:51 PM True, the bonded summoner does lose 5 levels :(
How feasable would a straight wizard be?
jameswilliamogle
01-10-07, 09:00 PM Straight Wizard is just ok; no reason not to play w/ Incanatrix if its available.

Bhuka Necropolitan Dread Necromancer 8 / Shadow Adept 2 / Walker in the Waste 10, just for more flavor. You need Southern Magician, Shadow Magic, Arcane Disciple: Sand, and a Wis of at least 14.

Gnome Illusionist 3 / Master Specialist 4 / Shadowcraft Mage 5 / Master Specialist 5-10 / Shadow Adept 2 is a really powerful build. You could replace the last 8 levels w/ Incanatrix 8, easily enough, and maybe 2 levels of MS w/ Incanatrix as well. It eventually can do everything the evoker can do and more.

Conjurer 5 / Incanatrix 8 / Initiate of the Sevenfold Veil 7 is a build that means you don't die.

lots of options... its easier to work from your character concept than your builds.
SlatzGrubnik
01-10-07, 09:12 PM Well, Mostly i would like a character that, when faced with an encounter of baddies, is able to eliminate the threat immediately (or within the first round or two)
Doing the same with the BBEG would be a plus :)
jameswilliamogle
01-10-07, 09:38 PM Well, Mostly i would like a character that, when faced with an encounter of baddies, is able to eliminate the threat immediately (or within the first round or two)
Doing the same with the BBEG would be a plus :)Necromancy is the way to go, then. Save or Die is like the definition of the Necromancy spells. Take a look at the dread necro build I suggested.
SlatzGrubnik
01-10-07, 09:48 PM Where is Walker in the Waste from?

Sandstorm, found it :)
Momar
01-10-07, 09:51 PM Where is Walker in the Waste from?

Sandstorm.
Jaisin
01-10-07, 10:04 PM If you are allowed to use Unearthed Arcana variants, use the following:

Generic Spellcaster 1 (INT as casting stat)/Wizard 4 (or Specialist Wizard 3/Master Specialist 1)/Ultimate Magus 10.

Choose spells off of any list for the Spellcaster levels, including flamestrike from the Druid List as a 4th level spell, and a couple of cures. With INT as your main casting stat, you won't suffer from MAD. Use your feat selections liberally with Metamagic Feats, and you'll be able to Quicken 5th level spells many, many times a day with the Ultimate Magus ability to Augment Casting. With the Versatile Spellcaster feat from Races of the Dragon (with DM approval since it does say sorcerer level 1st, and not spontaneous caster 1st), you can trade in your lower level slots for higher ones for more Quicken, Repeat, Twin, Maximize, and Empower Spells many more times a day than you would be able to with Incantatrix. Your caster levels will be through the roof, as well. A reserve feat from Complete Mage or two, carefully chosen, will also increase caster levels for specific spells and assure that you never run out of neat things to do - Minor Shapeshift will keep you alive a lot longer than anything else.

If you go the Specialist Wizard 3/Master Specialist 1 route (free feat; fractional BAB and saves, if you're using them will be helpful), you can choose Metamagic School Focus and Metamagic Spell Trigger with two of your open feats (not having to worry about Iron Will for Incantatrix), and basically have the same effects for your school of choice.

These minor alternatives to the Incantatrix makes the build non-setting specific, and also saves you an Item Creation Feat since you can apply the Metamagic Spell Trigger to any item, and not just one that you made.

Not having to go through the early levels in play will make this a solid build, with your 7th level spells having a CL of 19+.

Oh, and did I mention that a persistent polymorph is yours for the cost of a 6th level prepared spell slot? Or that you can choose divine power from the cleric list and persist that as well?

Possibilities with great spell selection are endless.

Alternatively, without Unearthed Arcana, the Stalwart Sorcerer option in Complete Mage sets the stage for levels 16-20 to be Abjurant Champion.

That's my opinion. :) I've been dying to play an Ultimate Magus, myself, so there's where that comes in.

:mage: Happy Blasting!
The Jake
01-10-07, 10:33 PM What do you think of Wild Mages from an optimization standpoint?
SlatzGrubnik
01-10-07, 11:06 PM Haven't played Wild Mage, so i dont know.
jameswilliamogle
01-10-07, 11:20 PM Its OK; you can take Practiced Spellcaster to make sure you never go below your caster level on the die roll. You should probably try to focus in on a type rather than expand options, though.
SlatzGrubnik
01-12-07, 12:06 AM Well, i honestly want to just do as much damage in a single round as possible..
Jaisin
01-12-07, 12:15 AM How many times per day?
SlatzGrubnik
01-12-07, 12:48 AM enough to kill the bad guys.. we only have encounters 1-3 times per day, MAYBE... that is, IF we have any at all...
Endarire
01-12-07, 02:48 AM If you go ultimate magus, instead go rogue1/wizard3/spontaneous caster1/ultimate magus10. That way you keep your wizard casting higher.

-EE
LogicNinja
01-12-07, 07:03 AM Well, i honestly want to just do as much damage in a single round as possible..

You might want to play a melee character or archer; charging builds can get a huge damage output. Spellcasters aren't the best at dealing damage, nor is dealing damage even remotely close to the best option for spellcasters.

If you do go with an evoker type, the Moonbow spell in the SpC is your best bet for damage.
Aralen
01-12-07, 07:48 AM Where is Ultimate Magus from? Can't find it.
DaveTheMagicWeasel
01-12-07, 07:58 AM Where is Ultimate Magus from? Can't find it.

Complete Mage
SlatzGrubnik
01-12-07, 10:44 AM You might want to play a melee character or archer; charging builds can get a huge damage output. Spellcasters aren't the best at dealing damage, nor is dealing damage even remotely close to the best option for spellcasters.

If you do go with an evoker type, the Moonbow spell in the SpC is your best bet for damage.

well.. what's a spellcaster good for, if not a fireball?
Timlagor
01-12-07, 12:25 PM well.. what's a spellcaster good for, if not a fireball?

Wow.

Direct Damage is generally the least effective thing ofr a Wizard.
Here are some of the other things you can do:
- buff allies
- cripple enemies (Save or Die later)
- change the battlefireld

You cna do any of those 3 in a vast variety of ways.
Phoenix00
01-12-07, 01:20 PM Where is Ultimate Magus from? Can't find it.
It is free as an excerpt here.
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20061010a&page=3

An idea on its power.
http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=482636
SlatzGrubnik
01-12-07, 09:00 PM Wow.

Direct Damage is generally the least effective thing ofr a Wizard.
Here are some of the other things you can do:
- buff allies
- cripple enemies (Save or Die later)
- change the battlefireld

You cna do any of those 3 in a vast variety of ways.
What would be an efficient way to go about crippling enemies, build-wise...
LogicNinja
01-12-07, 09:40 PM well.. what's a spellcaster good for, if not a fireball?

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=18500 This should help.
SlatzGrubnik
01-12-07, 09:55 PM http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=18500 This should help.

Very nice, thank you very much for that
The Jake
01-24-07, 12:37 AM Illusioniust3/Master Specialist10/7x

The 7 levels of x could be archmage, shadowcraft mage, shadow adept, etc.
For a level 15 campaign, I'd prolly go 2 levels of archmage.
mercury529
01-24-07, 12:49 AM I personally like the flavor of the Shadowcraft Mage (Players Guide to Faerun). Illusionist 3/Master Specialist 4/Shadowcraft Mage 5/Incantatrix 3 is a great level 15 build. You get wonderful versatility with Shadow Evocation/Conjurations, my favorite part of the Incantatrix (Metamagic Effect/Cooperative Metamagic used in conjunction with Persistent Spell). And while giving up 3 schools may seem like a lot, you can give up Evocation (you get Shadow Evocations), Enchantment (illusion overlaps heavily with Enchantment), and either Necromancy or Conjuration for the Incantatrix. Keep in mind with the Incantatrix, you can still cast the spells you already knew from the prohibited school. While it might normally be a bad decision to ban conjuration because of Teleports, starting at level 15, you already can know 7th level conjurations (which I believe covers the vast majority of useful conjuration teleports).

Just something to consider.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
SlatzGrubnik 01-10-07, 08:04 PM	Ok, im makin a mage (obviously)... have a few ideas for it, but no real direction really, other than to stay away from crafting... here's a few ideas i have, and these are by no means complete or final.. Please dont abbreviate... Venerable Sun Elf (Generalist Mage 1st level racial substitution) Wizard 5/ Incantrix 10 [Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting, Races of the Wild, Players Guide to Faerun] Human Evoker 5/ Incantrix 10 Human Evoker 5/ Master Specialist 10 [Complete Mage] Venerable Human Evoker 5/ Bonded Summoner 10 [Miniatures Handbook] Anyone have any better ideas? :surrender
GaffeR 01-10-07, 08:29 PM	I vote for the first one, except not Venerable. -6 to all physical stats is suicide. Mix with a healthy dose of metamagic (Persistent, Quicken, whatever else you like), bonuses to spellcraft (custom +30 item), maybe Extraordinary spell aim for your AMFs.
DaveTheMagicWeasel 01-10-07, 08:46 PM	Either ot the two involving Incantrix would be my choice. And, iirc, Bonded Summoner loses 5 levels of progression doesn't it? I wouldn't touch that with a barge pole.
SlatzGrubnik 01-10-07, 08:51 PM	True, the bonded summoner does lose 5 levels :( How feasable would a straight wizard be?
jameswilliamogle 01-10-07, 09:00 PM	Straight Wizard is just ok; no reason not to play w/ Incanatrix if its available. Bhuka Necropolitan Dread Necromancer 8 / Shadow Adept 2 / Walker in the Waste 10, just for more flavor. You need Southern Magician, Shadow Magic, Arcane Disciple: Sand, and a Wis of at least 14. Gnome Illusionist 3 / Master Specialist 4 / Shadowcraft Mage 5 / Master Specialist 5-10 / Shadow Adept 2 is a really powerful build. You could replace the last 8 levels w/ Incanatrix 8, easily enough, and maybe 2 levels of MS w/ Incanatrix as well. It eventually can do everything the evoker can do and more. Conjurer 5 / Incanatrix 8 / Initiate of the Sevenfold Veil 7 is a build that means you don't die. lots of options... its easier to work from your character concept than your builds.
SlatzGrubnik 01-10-07, 09:12 PM	Well, Mostly i would like a character that, when faced with an encounter of baddies, is able to eliminate the threat immediately (or within the first round or two) Doing the same with the BBEG would be a plus :)
jameswilliamogle 01-10-07, 09:38 PM	Well, Mostly i would like a character that, when faced with an encounter of baddies, is able to eliminate the threat immediately (or within the first round or two) Doing the same with the BBEG would be a plus :)Necromancy is the way to go, then. Save or Die is like the definition of the Necromancy spells. Take a look at the dread necro build I suggested.
SlatzGrubnik 01-10-07, 09:48 PM	Where is Walker in the Waste from? Sandstorm, found it :)
Momar 01-10-07, 09:51 PM	Where is Walker in the Waste from? Sandstorm.
Jaisin 01-10-07, 10:04 PM	If you are allowed to use Unearthed Arcana variants, use the following: Generic Spellcaster 1 (INT as casting stat)/Wizard 4 (or Specialist Wizard 3/Master Specialist 1)/Ultimate Magus 10. Choose spells off of any list for the Spellcaster levels, including flamestrike from the Druid List as a 4th level spell, and a couple of cures. With INT as your main casting stat, you won't suffer from MAD. Use your feat selections liberally with Metamagic Feats, and you'll be able to Quicken 5th level spells many, many times a day with the Ultimate Magus ability to Augment Casting. With the Versatile Spellcaster feat from Races of the Dragon (with DM approval since it does say sorcerer level 1st, and not spontaneous caster 1st), you can trade in your lower level slots for higher ones for more Quicken, Repeat, Twin, Maximize, and Empower Spells many more times a day than you would be able to with Incantatrix. Your caster levels will be through the roof, as well. A reserve feat from Complete Mage or two, carefully chosen, will also increase caster levels for specific spells and assure that you never run out of neat things to do - Minor Shapeshift will keep you alive a lot longer than anything else. If you go the Specialist Wizard 3/Master Specialist 1 route (free feat; fractional BAB and saves, if you're using them will be helpful), you can choose Metamagic School Focus and Metamagic Spell Trigger with two of your open feats (not having to worry about Iron Will for Incantatrix), and basically have the same effects for your school of choice. These minor alternatives to the Incantatrix makes the build non-setting specific, and also saves you an Item Creation Feat since you can apply the Metamagic Spell Trigger to any item, and not just one that you made. Not having to go through the early levels in play will make this a solid build, with your 7th level spells having a CL of 19+. Oh, and did I mention that a persistent polymorph is yours for the cost of a 6th level prepared spell slot? Or that you can choose divine power from the cleric list and persist that as well? Possibilities with great spell selection are endless. Alternatively, without Unearthed Arcana, the Stalwart Sorcerer option in Complete Mage sets the stage for levels 16-20 to be Abjurant Champion. That's my opinion. :) I've been dying to play an Ultimate Magus, myself, so there's where that comes in. :mage: Happy Blasting!
The Jake 01-10-07, 10:33 PM	What do you think of Wild Mages from an optimization standpoint?
SlatzGrubnik 01-10-07, 11:06 PM	Haven't played Wild Mage, so i dont know.
jameswilliamogle 01-10-07, 11:20 PM	Its OK; you can take Practiced Spellcaster to make sure you never go below your caster level on the die roll. You should probably try to focus in on a type rather than expand options, though.
SlatzGrubnik 01-12-07, 12:06 AM	Well, i honestly want to just do as much damage in a single round as possible..
Jaisin 01-12-07, 12:15 AM	How many times per day?
SlatzGrubnik 01-12-07, 12:48 AM	enough to kill the bad guys.. we only have encounters 1-3 times per day, MAYBE... that is, IF we have any at all...
Endarire 01-12-07, 02:48 AM	If you go ultimate magus, instead go rogue1/wizard3/spontaneous caster1/ultimate magus10. That way you keep your wizard casting higher. -EE
LogicNinja 01-12-07, 07:03 AM	Well, i honestly want to just do as much damage in a single round as possible.. You might want to play a melee character or archer; charging builds can get a huge damage output. Spellcasters aren't the best at dealing damage, nor is dealing damage even remotely close to the best option for spellcasters. If you do go with an evoker type, the Moonbow spell in the SpC is your best bet for damage.
Aralen 01-12-07, 07:48 AM	Where is Ultimate Magus from? Can't find it.
DaveTheMagicWeasel 01-12-07, 07:58 AM	Where is Ultimate Magus from? Can't find it. Complete Mage
SlatzGrubnik 01-12-07, 10:44 AM	You might want to play a melee character or archer; charging builds can get a huge damage output. Spellcasters aren't the best at dealing damage, nor is dealing damage even remotely close to the best option for spellcasters. If you do go with an evoker type, the Moonbow spell in the SpC is your best bet for damage. well.. what's a spellcaster good for, if not a fireball?
Timlagor 01-12-07, 12:25 PM	well.. what's a spellcaster good for, if not a fireball? Wow. Direct Damage is generally the least effective thing ofr a Wizard. Here are some of the other things you can do: - buff allies - cripple enemies (Save or Die later) - change the battlefireld You cna do any of those 3 in a vast variety of ways.
Phoenix00 01-12-07, 01:20 PM	Where is Ultimate Magus from? Can't find it. It is free as an excerpt here. http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20061010a&page=3 An idea on its power. http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=482636
SlatzGrubnik 01-12-07, 09:00 PM	Wow. Direct Damage is generally the least effective thing ofr a Wizard. Here are some of the other things you can do: - buff allies - cripple enemies (Save or Die later) - change the battlefireld You cna do any of those 3 in a vast variety of ways. What would be an efficient way to go about crippling enemies, build-wise...
LogicNinja 01-12-07, 09:40 PM	well.. what's a spellcaster good for, if not a fireball? http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=18500 This should help.
SlatzGrubnik 01-12-07, 09:55 PM	http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=18500 This should help. Very nice, thank you very much for that
The Jake 01-24-07, 12:37 AM	Illusioniust3/Master Specialist10/7x The 7 levels of x could be archmage, shadowcraft mage, shadow adept, etc. For a level 15 campaign, I'd prolly go 2 levels of archmage.
mercury529 01-24-07, 12:49 AM	I personally like the flavor of the Shadowcraft Mage (Players Guide to Faerun). Illusionist 3/Master Specialist 4/Shadowcraft Mage 5/Incantatrix 3 is a great level 15 build. You get wonderful versatility with Shadow Evocation/Conjurations, my favorite part of the Incantatrix (Metamagic Effect/Cooperative Metamagic used in conjunction with Persistent Spell). And while giving up 3 schools may seem like a lot, you can give up Evocation (you get Shadow Evocations), Enchantment (illusion overlaps heavily with Enchantment), and either Necromancy or Conjuration for the Incantatrix. Keep in mind with the Incantatrix, you can still cast the spells you already knew from the prohibited school. While it might normally be a bad decision to ban conjuration because of Teleports, starting at level 15, you already can know 7th level conjurations (which I believe covers the vast majority of useful conjuration teleports). Just something to consider.