15th Level Swordsage; what feat to take? [Archive] - Wizards Community

15th Level Swordsage; what feat to take? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Warlock33
12-19-06, 05:32 PM Well, my first character from Tome of Battle has worked marvelously, and I'm overall just really happy with the character and the book. We're 14th level now, and I just got enough xp to get to 15th. The character goes as follows:
Human Swordsage 12/Warblade2
FEATS: Adaptive Style, Weapon Finesse, Shadow Blade, TWF, ITWF, GTWF

Uses all disciplines except Setting Sun, specializes in Desert Wind mostly.

I'm happy with the power level of the character so far, I'm just clueless on what 7th level maneuver to take with my next level of swordsage, and what feat to take for my 15th level feat.

Any ideas?
LogicNinja
12-19-06, 07:08 PM The Gloom Razor tactical feat is a great feat for TWFing Shadow Hand types. Combine with Child of Shadow stance FTW.

Inferno Blade is a very solid maneuver, letting you do the "+IL to damage per hit with TWF" thing more often than Searing Blade alone.
Death in the Dark combines well with the Gloom Razor feat.
Quicksilver Motion will let you close to full attack when you otherwise couldn't.
Shadow Blink does the same, letting you port next to someone and full attack, and is probably better since it's more useful out of combat.
Tiger Claw's Swooping Dragon Strike is great, because it stuns them (Fort DC = your Jump check; should be a tough save to make), does +10d6, and makes them flatfooted--a great choice for when you can't full attack.

Edit: you won't have a 7th level maneuver as a Swordsage 13/Warblade, 2, though; your Swordsage Initiator Level is 13+0.5(2) = 14. You only get half IL for levels in other classes for any given martial adept class; your Warblade IL should be 8 now (and will be 9 next level).

For a sixth level maneuver, try Greater Insightful Strike if you've been maxing Concentration (as you should have).
Warlock33
12-19-06, 07:33 PM Thanks for the tips!

Yes, my IL for swordsage would be 14. a 14th level swordsage gets 7th level maneuvers. ;)

I'd never really thought of gloom razor as that great of a feat, is there something I'm missing?
LogicNinja
12-19-06, 07:38 PM Thanks for the tips!

Yes, my IL for swordsage would be 14. a 14th level swordsage gets 7th level maneuvers. ;)
*checks* Oh, right, my bad. You get 8th at 15.

I'd never really thought of gloom razor as that great of a feat, is there something I'm missing?
It gets you free Invisibility rounds, free Mobility, and you can trigger it off of itself and your stances. Plus it flat-foots them, either through Invisibility or the "Moving Shadows" option, which lets you hit'em with the Shadow Hand maneuvers that require flatfootedness, lets you get sneak attacks in from Assassin's Stance, and so on.
Warlock33
12-19-06, 07:40 PM Ah, that makes Death In the Dark pretty awesome. I guess now is choosing between inferno blade, death in the dark and swooping dragon strike. I already have searing blade, which is exactly the same except for 1d6 more damage per hit (at 8 or 9 attacks around this is significant though), swooping dragon pretty much auto stuns living things with 10d6 damage, and death in the dark is 15d6 against a flatfooted living opponent. That's a tough choice...
LogicNinja
12-19-06, 07:55 PM Ah, that makes Death In the Dark pretty awesome. I guess now is choosing between inferno blade, death in the dark and swooping dragon strike. I already have searing blade, which is exactly the same except for 1d6 more damage per hit (at 8 or 9 attacks around this is significant though), swooping dragon pretty much auto stuns living things with 10d6 damage, and death in the dark is 15d6 against a flatfooted living opponent. That's a tough choice...
It is, yes. I'd probably go with Inferno Blade if you full-attack non-fire-resistant things a lot (although it sucks if you run into a red dragon or a fire elemental or something), just because it gets you more peak-effectiveness combat rounds. The d6es don't matter as much as the +IL damage per hit.

I've got an 11th-level PsyWar 2/Swordsage 9 who opens combat with Dancing Mongoose + Pouncing Charge for six hits for +DEX (Shadow Blade) + WIS, and follows up the next round with Searing Blade and a full attack--but that's almost all of his offensive maneuvers; his effectiveness drops as he either attacks normally or spends a round to get maneuvers back. Inferno Blade would let you rush in with Dancing Mongoose + Pouncing Charge, follow up with Inferno Blade + full attack, then Searing Blade + Full Attack. The problem with Strikes is you give up your full attack, which takes the air out of TWF+Shadow Blade's sails.

I'd take Inferno Blade if Fire Resistance isn't being too much of an issue, and Swooping Dragon Strike if it is. Boots are better than strikes for TWF swordsages, though--and if you already have an "opener" that lets you close effectively, like Pouncing Charge + a boost, then you don't need Swooping Dragon Strike as much--although the stun *is* nice.

You could skip Gloom Razor and take Martial Study (or Extra Readied Maneuver), also.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Warlock33 12-19-06, 05:32 PM	Well, my first character from Tome of Battle has worked marvelously, and I'm overall just really happy with the character and the book. We're 14th level now, and I just got enough xp to get to 15th. The character goes as follows: Human Swordsage 12/Warblade2 FEATS: Adaptive Style, Weapon Finesse, Shadow Blade, TWF, ITWF, GTWF Uses all disciplines except Setting Sun, specializes in Desert Wind mostly. I'm happy with the power level of the character so far, I'm just clueless on what 7th level maneuver to take with my next level of swordsage, and what feat to take for my 15th level feat. Any ideas?
LogicNinja 12-19-06, 07:08 PM	The Gloom Razor tactical feat is a great feat for TWFing Shadow Hand types. Combine with Child of Shadow stance FTW. Inferno Blade is a very solid maneuver, letting you do the "+IL to damage per hit with TWF" thing more often than Searing Blade alone. Death in the Dark combines well with the Gloom Razor feat. Quicksilver Motion will let you close to full attack when you otherwise couldn't. Shadow Blink does the same, letting you port next to someone and full attack, and is probably better since it's more useful out of combat. Tiger Claw's Swooping Dragon Strike is great, because it stuns them (Fort DC = your Jump check; should be a tough save to make), does +10d6, and makes them flatfooted--a great choice for when you can't full attack. Edit: you won't have a 7th level maneuver as a Swordsage 13/Warblade, 2, though; your Swordsage Initiator Level is 13+0.5(2) = 14. You only get half IL for levels in other classes for any given martial adept class; your Warblade IL should be 8 now (and will be 9 next level). For a sixth level maneuver, try Greater Insightful Strike if you've been maxing Concentration (as you should have).
Warlock33 12-19-06, 07:33 PM	Thanks for the tips! Yes, my IL for swordsage would be 14. a 14th level swordsage gets 7th level maneuvers. ;) I'd never really thought of gloom razor as that great of a feat, is there something I'm missing?
LogicNinja 12-19-06, 07:38 PM	Thanks for the tips! Yes, my IL for swordsage would be 14. a 14th level swordsage gets 7th level maneuvers. ;) checks Oh, right, my bad. You get 8th at 15. I'd never really thought of gloom razor as that great of a feat, is there something I'm missing? It gets you free Invisibility rounds, free Mobility, and you can trigger it off of itself and your stances. Plus it flat-foots them, either through Invisibility or the "Moving Shadows" option, which lets you hit'em with the Shadow Hand maneuvers that require flatfootedness, lets you get sneak attacks in from Assassin's Stance, and so on.
Warlock33 12-19-06, 07:40 PM	Ah, that makes Death In the Dark pretty awesome. I guess now is choosing between inferno blade, death in the dark and swooping dragon strike. I already have searing blade, which is exactly the same except for 1d6 more damage per hit (at 8 or 9 attacks around this is significant though), swooping dragon pretty much auto stuns living things with 10d6 damage, and death in the dark is 15d6 against a flatfooted living opponent. That's a tough choice...
LogicNinja 12-19-06, 07:55 PM	Ah, that makes Death In the Dark pretty awesome. I guess now is choosing between inferno blade, death in the dark and swooping dragon strike. I already have searing blade, which is exactly the same except for 1d6 more damage per hit (at 8 or 9 attacks around this is significant though), swooping dragon pretty much auto stuns living things with 10d6 damage, and death in the dark is 15d6 against a flatfooted living opponent. That's a tough choice... It is, yes. I'd probably go with Inferno Blade if you full-attack non-fire-resistant things a lot (although it sucks if you run into a red dragon or a fire elemental or something), just because it gets you more peak-effectiveness combat rounds. The d6es don't matter as much as the +IL damage per hit. I've got an 11th-level PsyWar 2/Swordsage 9 who opens combat with Dancing Mongoose + Pouncing Charge for six hits for +DEX (Shadow Blade) + WIS, and follows up the next round with Searing Blade and a full attack--but that's almost all of his offensive maneuvers; his effectiveness drops as he either attacks normally or spends a round to get maneuvers back. Inferno Blade would let you rush in with Dancing Mongoose + Pouncing Charge, follow up with Inferno Blade + full attack, then Searing Blade + Full Attack. The problem with Strikes is you give up your full attack, which takes the air out of TWF+Shadow Blade's sails. I'd take Inferno Blade if Fire Resistance isn't being too much of an issue, and Swooping Dragon Strike if it is. Boots are better than strikes for TWF swordsages, though--and if you already have an "opener" that lets you close effectively, like Pouncing Charge + a boost, then you don't need Swooping Dragon Strike as much--although the stun is nice. You could skip Gloom Razor and take Martial Study (or Extra Readied Maneuver), also.