+16 AC from a 1st level "Spell" [Archive] - Wizards Community

+16 AC from a 1st level "Spell" [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Xylem
01-11-07, 08:59 AM For various reasons I've been looking at Shadowcasters a lot lately, and something amusing has come to my attention. Consider the following facts:
A Shadowcaster of 6th level or lower casts Apprentice path mysteries as arcane spells;
The Abjurant Champion's Abjurant Armor class ability increases the armor or shield bonus for abjuration spells by your level in Abjurant Champion;
The 1st level mystery Steel Shadows gives you a +3 sheild bonus and a +3 armor bonus and is abjuration.

Thus, a build with 5 levels of Abjurant Champion and six or less levels of Shadowcaster gets a +16 AC bonus from Steel Shadows!

Unfortunately, Shadowcasters don't qualify for Abjurant Champion, making any builds that take advantage of this awkward at best.
Midnight_v
01-11-07, 09:28 AM Brilliant...:plotting:
Victor_Ograygor
01-11-07, 09:45 AM Great

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Father Dale
01-11-07, 10:03 AM Well, a +11 bonus from shield could be had with 5 levels of Abjurant Champion and 2 levels of Argent Savant. And Greater Mage Armor would give a +8 AC bonus, for a total of +19 from a 1st and a 3rd level spells. Still, AC 29 before dex, deflection, dodge, luck, etc., bonuses is pretty nice. Although this probably couldn't be achieved until mid teens at the earliest.

Unfortunately, the only abjuration spell I could find that gave an armor bonus was Ectoplasmic Armor, and this only works against incorporeal creatures. (I checked the PHB, PHB II, SC, and Complete Mage.) Which makes little sense from the Abjurant Champion's perspective...why does a major class ability only work with a single spell that has very limited use?
frasmage
01-11-07, 11:04 AM Well, a +11 bonus from shield could be had with 5 levels of Abjurant Champion and 2 levels of Argent Savant. And Greater Mage Armor would give a +8 AC bonus, for a total of +19 from a 1st and a 3rd level spells. Still, AC 29 before dex, deflection, dodge, luck, etc., bonuses is pretty nice. Although this probably couldn't be achieved until mid teens at the earliest.

Unfortunately, the only abjuration spell I could find that gave an armor bonus was Ectoplasmic Armor, and this only works against incorporeal creatures. (I checked the PHB, PHB II, SC, and Complete Mage.) Which makes little sense from the Abjurant Champion's perspective...why does a major class ability only work with a single spell that has very limited use?

luminous armor and greater luminous armor (sp?), BoeD

the Gr. version gives you the AC of full plate and all sight-reliant foes take a -4 penalty on attack against you. That means you end up with a equivalent AC of 36 before all the other stuff. However the strength penalty can be annoying.
1984
01-11-07, 11:06 AM One level of shadowsmith (ToM) will give you a single lvl 1 mystery pr day.
Xylem
01-11-07, 11:40 AM One level of shadowsmith (ToM) will give you a single lvl 1 mystery pr day.
Ooh, it will ... and it's a full BAB class, if I recall correctly ...
FriendlyFrog
01-11-07, 12:11 PM Ooh, it will ... and it's a full BAB class, if I recall correctly ...
Yes it is. That would work perfectly, and you can easily qualify for Abjurant champion with two levels of Duskblade. The biggest problem is that Steel shadows only lasts 10 minutes/level, so a high caster level is mandatory to benefit from the trick more than a little time per day.
NoldorForce
01-11-07, 12:34 PM Is Steel Shadows considered an abjuration effect?
FriendlyFrog
01-11-07, 12:42 PM Is Steel Shadows considered an abjuration effect?
Yes :D
nbhs275
01-11-07, 01:13 PM Well, shadowcaster is a boostable via prc if they have the correct wording. If it says any existing casting class, then your golden. Simply get whatever level spell required from another class and then add the prc onto shadow caster.

I've never seen the abjurent champion, but if its reqs are just lvl 1 arcane spells, then anything from a single level of wizard, to 4 levels of spellthief would do.(hhm..spellthief 4/ shadowcaster 1/abjurent champion 5/master of masks 10...imagine if that worked)
TheHumanDynamo
01-11-07, 01:27 PM Abjurant Champion won't boost shadowcaster levels, it says "+1 level of exisiting arcane spellcasting class".

However...Abjurant Champion would boost Child of Night levels, getting you spells or mysteries.

Shadowcaster/xxx/Child of Night/Abjurant Champion5/xxx could work depending on how you interpret Child of Night's wording.
Xaktsaroth
01-11-07, 01:35 PM Yes it is. That would work perfectly, and you can easily qualify for Abjurant champion with two levels of Duskblade. The biggest problem is that Steel shadows only lasts 10 minutes/level, so a high caster level is mandatory to benefit from the trick more than a little time per day.

And that where the Champion wins again. When you hit level 5, your CL becomes your BAB!

Nice find. :)
Xylem
01-11-07, 01:49 PM And that where the Champion wins again. When you hit level 5, your CL becomes your BAB!

Nice find. :)
So Duskblade 2/X 3/Abjurant Champion 5/Shadowsmith 1

Where X is any full BAB class, would, at character level 11 be able to cast a +16 AC Steel Shadows that would last 110 minutes once/day. However, being away from my books I can't remember the name of the item, but there's an item that lets you recast a used mystery one more time per day (the equivalent of a Pearl of Power). I bet the ones for 1st level mysteries are really cheap ...
Epicweaver
01-11-07, 02:04 PM So Duskblade 2/X 3/Abjurant Champion 5/Shadowsmith 1

Where X is any full BAB class, would, at character level 11 be able to cast a +16 AC Steel Shadows that would last 110 minutes once/day. However, being away from my books I can't remember the name of the item, but there's an item that lets you recast a used mystery one more time per day (the equivalent of a Pearl of Power). I bet the ones for 1st level mysteries are really cheap ...Orb of Shadow, Tome of Magic page 156 - 1st-level 1,000gp

A part of me thinks Hexblade would be fun to use, but the more I think about it, it's not worth the effort.
Xaktsaroth
01-11-07, 02:11 PM Your also forgetting that the Champion gives a free extend to all Abj spells.

So, it might last longer, if you havn't already factored it in(away from books, ATM. :P)
rilem
01-11-07, 02:14 PM Couldn't you also grab the Extended Mystery feat? It's just 1/day use anyway. Could a shadowsmith use that?

I like the idea quite a bit — even the Dusk/Shadow thing has some good flavor to it.
Momar
01-11-07, 04:09 PM There is a problem here. The martial arcanist ability says that it can only be applied to the spellcasting class that Abjurant Champion added levels to, so the mystery is still going to be only 10 minutes.
Xylem
01-11-07, 04:34 PM There is a problem here. The martial arcanist ability says that it can only be applied to the spellcasting class that Abjurant Champion added levels to, so the mystery is still going to be only 10 minutes.
Ah, well. Actually, it's 20 minutes because of Abjurant Champion's Extended Abjuration class ability. But now I think about it, I really have no idea how Shadowsmith calculates its caster level -- I'll have to check my books when I get home. (But I suspect it's probably level in class.)
Momar
01-11-07, 04:44 PM Hmm, looking it over I don't think it says what your caster level is. Class level is the safest bet though.

If you apply practiced spellcaster (I think you can do that) the duration could get up to 100 minutes with the extend abjuration. It seems like a lot of effort to get good use out of the one mystery but it's still an option.
Xylem
01-11-07, 04:50 PM If you apply practiced spellcaster (I think you can do that) the duration could get up to 100 minutes with the extend abjuration. It seems like a lot of effort to get good use out of the one mystery but it's still an option.
Oh, it's quite an absurd amount of effort, but it's an interesting thought experiment. And the resulting character does have full BAB, which isn't too shabby.
Xylem
01-11-07, 08:22 PM Couldn't you also grab the Extended Mystery feat? It's just 1/day use anyway. Could a shadowsmith use that?
I was wondering about this myself. The mystery is already being extended (as Xaktsaroth) pointed out by Abjurant Champion's class ability -- could it be double extended? If so, then combined with Momar's Practiced Spellcaster trick, you'd get 200 minutes. Add in a few level 1 Orbs of Shadow, and you're set for the day.

BTW: Caster level for Shadowsmith does indeed seems to be PrC level, going by example character (which, while weak, is better than nothing).

Anyway, to extend the build to L20 as an exercize, we could have:

Duskblade 5/Abjurant Champion 5/Shadowsmith 1/Duskblade 8/Shadowsmith 1

Which gets the Arcane Channeling (full attack) ability at L19, by which point the abilities we set up to get with this build aren't especially important anymore. If Shadowsmith is your thing, you could instead go:

Duskblade 2/X 3/Abjurant Champion 5/Shadowsmith 10

Where X is any full BAB class.

Epicweaver mentioned Hexblade, which also works, since they get a 1st level spell at 4th level if they have a Charisma bonus, and their spell list contains Protection from Good/Evil/Law/Chaos which are abjuration school spells. Take the Dark Companion`alternate class feature from PH2 for flavor and you're set:

Hexblade 5/Abjurant Champion 5/Shadowsmith 10

Or maybe:

Ranger 1/Hexblade 4/Abjurant Champion 5/Shadowsmith 10

To get an earlier start on the Hide and Move Silently skills that Shadowsmith's class abilities give boosts to.
ressurrector
01-11-07, 09:28 PM I could have sworn you needed 13 Duskblade levels for full attack channel, you've only got 11 listed there.
Xylem
01-11-07, 09:56 PM I could have sworn you needed 13 Duskblade levels for full attack channel, you've only got 11 listed there.
Whoops! OK,

Duskblade 5/Abjurant Champion 5/Shadowsmith 1/Duskblade 8/Shadowsmith 1

Post in haste, edit in leisure ...
Mikal
01-11-07, 11:42 PM While your build may not be kosher, it DID make me think of a fun build combination with the argent savant.

Since most force spells are abjuration (IIRC), this could be a nice keystone to a gish combo that wants to rely on force effects more. Combining them together you get:

Double Extended duration on your force/abjuration effects (almost like a persistant greater mage armor)

A defensive combo addition of +7 to your armor and shield spells (force armor+abjurant armor)

Free quicken to your abjuration spells (great for quick defense if need be).

In addition, you won't need to have a high caster level for your effects once you hit 5th level in Abj Champ, allowing you to take a more offensively focused class if you wish, such as... Green Star Adept, or whatever. If anything else thinks this could be a worthy build combination, let me know or poke and prod it, see what happens :D
TheHumanDynamo
01-12-07, 12:49 AM Browsing through the books, I came up with this:

Duskblade5/Shadowcaster3/Noctumancer1/Abjurant Champion5/Duskblade6

You end up with +18 bab, 5th level duskblade spells, 4th level mysteries, all the abjurant champion goodies for insane Steel Shadows AC, the Capture Magic's Shadow ability to boost your CL even more for buffage (doesn't say it can't go above your ECL), and using Abjurant Champion to boost Noctumancer advances both your mysteries and duskblade spells at the same time.
Xylem
01-12-07, 01:03 AM Browsing through the books, I came up with this:

Duskblade5/Shadowcaster3/Noctumancer1/Abjurant Champion5/Duskblade6

You end up with +18 bab, 5th level duskblade spells, 4th level mysteries, all the abjurant champion goodies for insane Steel Shadows AC, the Capture Magic's Shadow ability to boost your CL even more for buffage (doesn't say it can't go above your ECL), and using Abjurant Champion to boost Noctumancer advances both your mysteries and duskblade spells at the same time.
Interesting, but I don't think you can use one PrC to advance a different, duel casting PrC -- if you could, people would be using full casting PrC's to advance Mystic Theurge all the time. There was a discussion of what was, and what wasn't a spellcasting class on this board at some point, and the general opinion (with some disagreement) was that only classes that could give you spellcasting when you didn't have it before were spellcasting classes and thus could be advanced. Also, if the trick did work, it would make Steel Shadows a spell-like ability instead of a spell, so Abjurant Champion wouldn't improve it anymore. Finally, I read the BAB as +17 unless you're using the partial BAB variant from Unearthed Arcana, as you get +11 from Duskblade, +5 from Abjurant Champion, +1 from Shadowcaster and +0 from Noctomancer.

Err, I didn't mean to tear your contribution apart, but I seem to have. Sorry.
TheHumanDynamo
01-12-07, 09:34 AM Interesting, but I don't think you can use one PrC to advance a different, duel casting PrC -- if you could, people would be using full casting PrC's to advance Mystic Theurge all the time. There was a discussion of what was, and what wasn't a spellcasting class on this board at some point, and the general opinion (with some disagreement) was that only classes that could give you spellcasting when you didn't have it before were spellcasting classes and thus could be advanced. Also, if the trick did work, it would make Steel Shadows a spell-like ability instead of a spell, so Abjurant Champion wouldn't improve it anymore. Finally, I read the BAB as +17 unless you're using the partial BAB variant from Unearthed Arcana, as you get +11 from Duskblade, +5 from Abjurant Champion, +1 from Shadowcaster and +0 from Noctomancer.

Err, I didn't mean to tear your contribution apart, but I seem to have. Sorry.

Sorry, yes was using the fractional BAB as that's what my DMs tend to use. As for the Abjurant Champion advancing the Noctumancer casting, I've never seen discussion on it here or elsewhere. If it doesn't work, my apologies. You could just as easily advance Shadowsmith levels with Abjurant champion instead, ditching both the levels in Noctumancer and Shadowcaster (and yes, I forgot at what point they become spell likes, again, sorry). That build would look something like:
Duskblade 3/Shadowsmith1/Abjurant Champion5/xxx = 11 levels left
neceros
01-12-07, 03:57 PM Well, a +11 bonus from shield could be had with 5 levels of Abjurant Champion and 2 levels of Argent Savant. And Greater Mage Armor would give a +8 AC bonus, for a total of +19 from a 1st and a 3rd level spells. Still, AC 29 before dex, deflection, dodge, luck, etc., bonuses is pretty nice. Although this probably couldn't be achieved until mid teens at the earliest.

Unless there's been a much anticipated errata for CM, Mage Armor does not qualify for Abjurant Champion abilities, since it's Conjuration.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Xylem 01-11-07, 08:59 AM	For various reasons I've been looking at Shadowcasters a lot lately, and something amusing has come to my attention. Consider the following facts: A Shadowcaster of 6th level or lower casts Apprentice path mysteries as arcane spells; The Abjurant Champion's Abjurant Armor class ability increases the armor or shield bonus for abjuration spells by your level in Abjurant Champion; The 1st level mystery Steel Shadows gives you a +3 sheild bonus and a +3 armor bonus and is abjuration. Thus, a build with 5 levels of Abjurant Champion and six or less levels of Shadowcaster gets a +16 AC bonus from Steel Shadows! Unfortunately, Shadowcasters don't qualify for Abjurant Champion, making any builds that take advantage of this awkward at best.
Midnight_v 01-11-07, 09:28 AM	Brilliant...:plotting:
Victor_Ograygor 01-11-07, 09:45 AM	Great -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Many Forgotten realms fans on the net have asked themselves whey there isn’t a Role Playing Forum on the net. Whey isn’t there a place were you can role play with people all around the world, and discus thing concerning Forgotten Realms? Now such a place exist. Forgotten Realms Role Playing Forum http://s8.invisionfree.com/FR_RP
Father Dale 01-11-07, 10:03 AM	Well, a +11 bonus from shield could be had with 5 levels of Abjurant Champion and 2 levels of Argent Savant. And Greater Mage Armor would give a +8 AC bonus, for a total of +19 from a 1st and a 3rd level spells. Still, AC 29 before dex, deflection, dodge, luck, etc., bonuses is pretty nice. Although this probably couldn't be achieved until mid teens at the earliest. Unfortunately, the only abjuration spell I could find that gave an armor bonus was Ectoplasmic Armor, and this only works against incorporeal creatures. (I checked the PHB, PHB II, SC, and Complete Mage.) Which makes little sense from the Abjurant Champion's perspective...why does a major class ability only work with a single spell that has very limited use?
frasmage 01-11-07, 11:04 AM	Well, a +11 bonus from shield could be had with 5 levels of Abjurant Champion and 2 levels of Argent Savant. And Greater Mage Armor would give a +8 AC bonus, for a total of +19 from a 1st and a 3rd level spells. Still, AC 29 before dex, deflection, dodge, luck, etc., bonuses is pretty nice. Although this probably couldn't be achieved until mid teens at the earliest. Unfortunately, the only abjuration spell I could find that gave an armor bonus was Ectoplasmic Armor, and this only works against incorporeal creatures. (I checked the PHB, PHB II, SC, and Complete Mage.) Which makes little sense from the Abjurant Champion's perspective...why does a major class ability only work with a single spell that has very limited use? luminous armor and greater luminous armor (sp?), BoeD the Gr. version gives you the AC of full plate and all sight-reliant foes take a -4 penalty on attack against you. That means you end up with a equivalent AC of 36 before all the other stuff. However the strength penalty can be annoying.
1984 01-11-07, 11:06 AM	One level of shadowsmith (ToM) will give you a single lvl 1 mystery pr day.
Xylem 01-11-07, 11:40 AM	One level of shadowsmith (ToM) will give you a single lvl 1 mystery pr day. Ooh, it will ... and it's a full BAB class, if I recall correctly ...
FriendlyFrog 01-11-07, 12:11 PM	Ooh, it will ... and it's a full BAB class, if I recall correctly ... Yes it is. That would work perfectly, and you can easily qualify for Abjurant champion with two levels of Duskblade. The biggest problem is that Steel shadows only lasts 10 minutes/level, so a high caster level is mandatory to benefit from the trick more than a little time per day.
NoldorForce 01-11-07, 12:34 PM	Is Steel Shadows considered an abjuration effect?
FriendlyFrog 01-11-07, 12:42 PM	Is Steel Shadows considered an abjuration effect? Yes :D
nbhs275 01-11-07, 01:13 PM	Well, shadowcaster is a boostable via prc if they have the correct wording. If it says any existing casting class, then your golden. Simply get whatever level spell required from another class and then add the prc onto shadow caster. I've never seen the abjurent champion, but if its reqs are just lvl 1 arcane spells, then anything from a single level of wizard, to 4 levels of spellthief would do.(hhm..spellthief 4/ shadowcaster 1/abjurent champion 5/master of masks 10...imagine if that worked)
TheHumanDynamo 01-11-07, 01:27 PM	Abjurant Champion won't boost shadowcaster levels, it says "+1 level of exisiting arcane spellcasting class". However...Abjurant Champion would boost Child of Night levels, getting you spells or mysteries. Shadowcaster/xxx/Child of Night/Abjurant Champion5/xxx could work depending on how you interpret Child of Night's wording.
Xaktsaroth 01-11-07, 01:35 PM	Yes it is. That would work perfectly, and you can easily qualify for Abjurant champion with two levels of Duskblade. The biggest problem is that Steel shadows only lasts 10 minutes/level, so a high caster level is mandatory to benefit from the trick more than a little time per day. And that where the Champion wins again. When you hit level 5, your CL becomes your BAB! Nice find. :)
Xylem 01-11-07, 01:49 PM	And that where the Champion wins again. When you hit level 5, your CL becomes your BAB! Nice find. :) So Duskblade 2/X 3/Abjurant Champion 5/Shadowsmith 1 Where X is any full BAB class, would, at character level 11 be able to cast a +16 AC Steel Shadows that would last 110 minutes once/day. However, being away from my books I can't remember the name of the item, but there's an item that lets you recast a used mystery one more time per day (the equivalent of a Pearl of Power). I bet the ones for 1st level mysteries are really cheap ...
Epicweaver 01-11-07, 02:04 PM	So Duskblade 2/X 3/Abjurant Champion 5/Shadowsmith 1 Where X is any full BAB class, would, at character level 11 be able to cast a +16 AC Steel Shadows that would last 110 minutes once/day. However, being away from my books I can't remember the name of the item, but there's an item that lets you recast a used mystery one more time per day (the equivalent of a Pearl of Power). I bet the ones for 1st level mysteries are really cheap ...Orb of Shadow, Tome of Magic page 156 - 1st-level 1,000gp A part of me thinks Hexblade would be fun to use, but the more I think about it, it's not worth the effort.
Xaktsaroth 01-11-07, 02:11 PM	Your also forgetting that the Champion gives a free extend to all Abj spells. So, it might last longer, if you havn't already factored it in(away from books, ATM. :P)
rilem 01-11-07, 02:14 PM	Couldn't you also grab the Extended Mystery feat? It's just 1/day use anyway. Could a shadowsmith use that? I like the idea quite a bit — even the Dusk/Shadow thing has some good flavor to it.
Momar 01-11-07, 04:09 PM	There is a problem here. The martial arcanist ability says that it can only be applied to the spellcasting class that Abjurant Champion added levels to, so the mystery is still going to be only 10 minutes.
Xylem 01-11-07, 04:34 PM	There is a problem here. The martial arcanist ability says that it can only be applied to the spellcasting class that Abjurant Champion added levels to, so the mystery is still going to be only 10 minutes. Ah, well. Actually, it's 20 minutes because of Abjurant Champion's Extended Abjuration class ability. But now I think about it, I really have no idea how Shadowsmith calculates its caster level -- I'll have to check my books when I get home. (But I suspect it's probably level in class.)
Momar 01-11-07, 04:44 PM	Hmm, looking it over I don't think it says what your caster level is. Class level is the safest bet though. If you apply practiced spellcaster (I think you can do that) the duration could get up to 100 minutes with the extend abjuration. It seems like a lot of effort to get good use out of the one mystery but it's still an option.
Xylem 01-11-07, 04:50 PM	If you apply practiced spellcaster (I think you can do that) the duration could get up to 100 minutes with the extend abjuration. It seems like a lot of effort to get good use out of the one mystery but it's still an option. Oh, it's quite an absurd amount of effort, but it's an interesting thought experiment. And the resulting character does have full BAB, which isn't too shabby.
Xylem 01-11-07, 08:22 PM	Couldn't you also grab the Extended Mystery feat? It's just 1/day use anyway. Could a shadowsmith use that? I was wondering about this myself. The mystery is already being extended (as Xaktsaroth) pointed out by Abjurant Champion's class ability -- could it be double extended? If so, then combined with Momar's Practiced Spellcaster trick, you'd get 200 minutes. Add in a few level 1 Orbs of Shadow, and you're set for the day. BTW: Caster level for Shadowsmith does indeed seems to be PrC level, going by example character (which, while weak, is better than nothing). Anyway, to extend the build to L20 as an exercize, we could have: Duskblade 5/Abjurant Champion 5/Shadowsmith 1/Duskblade 8/Shadowsmith 1 Which gets the Arcane Channeling (full attack) ability at L19, by which point the abilities we set up to get with this build aren't especially important anymore. If Shadowsmith is your thing, you could instead go: Duskblade 2/X 3/Abjurant Champion 5/Shadowsmith 10 Where X is any full BAB class. Epicweaver mentioned Hexblade, which also works, since they get a 1st level spell at 4th level if they have a Charisma bonus, and their spell list contains Protection from Good/Evil/Law/Chaos which are abjuration school spells. Take the Dark Companion`alternate class feature from PH2 for flavor and you're set: Hexblade 5/Abjurant Champion 5/Shadowsmith 10 Or maybe: Ranger 1/Hexblade 4/Abjurant Champion 5/Shadowsmith 10 To get an earlier start on the Hide and Move Silently skills that Shadowsmith's class abilities give boosts to.
ressurrector 01-11-07, 09:28 PM	I could have sworn you needed 13 Duskblade levels for full attack channel, you've only got 11 listed there.
Xylem 01-11-07, 09:56 PM	I could have sworn you needed 13 Duskblade levels for full attack channel, you've only got 11 listed there. Whoops! OK, Duskblade 5/Abjurant Champion 5/Shadowsmith 1/Duskblade 8/Shadowsmith 1 Post in haste, edit in leisure ...
Mikal 01-11-07, 11:42 PM	While your build may not be kosher, it DID make me think of a fun build combination with the argent savant. Since most force spells are abjuration (IIRC), this could be a nice keystone to a gish combo that wants to rely on force effects more. Combining them together you get: Double Extended duration on your force/abjuration effects (almost like a persistant greater mage armor) A defensive combo addition of +7 to your armor and shield spells (force armor+abjurant armor) Free quicken to your abjuration spells (great for quick defense if need be). In addition, you won't need to have a high caster level for your effects once you hit 5th level in Abj Champ, allowing you to take a more offensively focused class if you wish, such as... Green Star Adept, or whatever. If anything else thinks this could be a worthy build combination, let me know or poke and prod it, see what happens :D
TheHumanDynamo 01-12-07, 12:49 AM	Browsing through the books, I came up with this: Duskblade5/Shadowcaster3/Noctumancer1/Abjurant Champion5/Duskblade6 You end up with +18 bab, 5th level duskblade spells, 4th level mysteries, all the abjurant champion goodies for insane Steel Shadows AC, the Capture Magic's Shadow ability to boost your CL even more for buffage (doesn't say it can't go above your ECL), and using Abjurant Champion to boost Noctumancer advances both your mysteries and duskblade spells at the same time.
Xylem 01-12-07, 01:03 AM	Browsing through the books, I came up with this: Duskblade5/Shadowcaster3/Noctumancer1/Abjurant Champion5/Duskblade6 You end up with +18 bab, 5th level duskblade spells, 4th level mysteries, all the abjurant champion goodies for insane Steel Shadows AC, the Capture Magic's Shadow ability to boost your CL even more for buffage (doesn't say it can't go above your ECL), and using Abjurant Champion to boost Noctumancer advances both your mysteries and duskblade spells at the same time. Interesting, but I don't think you can use one PrC to advance a different, duel casting PrC -- if you could, people would be using full casting PrC's to advance Mystic Theurge all the time. There was a discussion of what was, and what wasn't a spellcasting class on this board at some point, and the general opinion (with some disagreement) was that only classes that could give you spellcasting when you didn't have it before were spellcasting classes and thus could be advanced. Also, if the trick did work, it would make Steel Shadows a spell-like ability instead of a spell, so Abjurant Champion wouldn't improve it anymore. Finally, I read the BAB as +17 unless you're using the partial BAB variant from Unearthed Arcana, as you get +11 from Duskblade, +5 from Abjurant Champion, +1 from Shadowcaster and +0 from Noctomancer. Err, I didn't mean to tear your contribution apart, but I seem to have. Sorry.
TheHumanDynamo 01-12-07, 09:34 AM	Interesting, but I don't think you can use one PrC to advance a different, duel casting PrC -- if you could, people would be using full casting PrC's to advance Mystic Theurge all the time. There was a discussion of what was, and what wasn't a spellcasting class on this board at some point, and the general opinion (with some disagreement) was that only classes that could give you spellcasting when you didn't have it before were spellcasting classes and thus could be advanced. Also, if the trick did work, it would make Steel Shadows a spell-like ability instead of a spell, so Abjurant Champion wouldn't improve it anymore. Finally, I read the BAB as +17 unless you're using the partial BAB variant from Unearthed Arcana, as you get +11 from Duskblade, +5 from Abjurant Champion, +1 from Shadowcaster and +0 from Noctomancer. Err, I didn't mean to tear your contribution apart, but I seem to have. Sorry. Sorry, yes was using the fractional BAB as that's what my DMs tend to use. As for the Abjurant Champion advancing the Noctumancer casting, I've never seen discussion on it here or elsewhere. If it doesn't work, my apologies. You could just as easily advance Shadowsmith levels with Abjurant champion instead, ditching both the levels in Noctumancer and Shadowcaster (and yes, I forgot at what point they become spell likes, again, sorry). That build would look something like: Duskblade 3/Shadowsmith1/Abjurant Champion5/xxx = 11 levels left
neceros 01-12-07, 03:57 PM	Well, a +11 bonus from shield could be had with 5 levels of Abjurant Champion and 2 levels of Argent Savant. And Greater Mage Armor would give a +8 AC bonus, for a total of +19 from a 1st and a 3rd level spells. Still, AC 29 before dex, deflection, dodge, luck, etc., bonuses is pretty nice. Although this probably couldn't be achieved until mid teens at the earliest. Unless there's been a much anticipated errata for CM, Mage Armor does not qualify for Abjurant Champion abilities, since it's Conjuration.