17th level Gestalt or 25 ECL? [Archive] - Wizards Community

17th level Gestalt or 25 ECL? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Wolfwood2
12-13-05, 12:42 PM Hey,

Game has been advertised where the characters are going to Save the World (tm) from a Demon Lord.

The choices are to either make a 17th level gestalt character or make any non-gestalt character of ECL 25.

Opinions, please. Which choice delivers more mind-blowingly awesome power and why?
Prominence
12-13-05, 12:47 PM Go for the ECL 25, because while a 17th level gestalt is strong, a 25th level caster with epic spells is stronger.
P33KAJ3W
12-13-05, 12:50 PM Go for the ECL 25, because while a 17th level gestalt is strong, a 25th level caster with epic spells is stronger.

Ditto - I would sugjest Wiz 5/Incantrix 10/any PRC 5/Epic Incantrix 5
tsuyoshikentsu
12-13-05, 12:53 PM The answer is:

Depends.

What do you want to be, and what books are available?

Do LAs and monster HDs count on one or both sides, and if one, are they a base class?

What's the rest of the party going with, or do you know?

What are your stats?

Generally speaking, I'd recommend 25 f you're a caster, and Gestalt if you're a combat class.
Wolfwood2
12-13-05, 01:04 PM The answer is:

Depends.

What do you want to be, and what books are available?

I was thinking about some sort of divine spellcasting type. I like druids, but maybe a paladin or cleric might be more effective. I don't know.

Usage of the Book of Exalted Deeds is apparently encouraged. As for other books, I can probably lay my hands on the "Races" or "Complete" or Eberron books, but I don't have ready access to Forgotten Realms stuff.

Do LAs and monster HDs count on one or both sides, and if one, are they a base class?

Unclear. Probably the DM hasn't thought about it and it would be a "make me a proposal and make it make sense" thing.

What's the rest of the party going with, or do you know?

Posting just went up calling for concepts. Good is required, so no evil stuff.

What are your stats?

Thirty point buy, with usual increases for level.

Generally speaking, I'd recommend 25 f you're a caster, and Gestalt if you're a combat class.

What about for a druid or a cleric, who can end up being both?
tsuyoshikentsu
12-13-05, 01:38 PM If youre going CoD, I'd say ECL 25. If you cast spells AT ALL, epic spellcasting is just too powerful to ignore.
Aramas
12-13-05, 01:43 PM Definitely go with a 25th level character

IIRC UA sets the LA for Gestalt at +2, so you are much better off with a ECL 25 character.

Even if you are a melee, Epic feats are way powerful. And for a caster, nothing beats epic spellcasting. Except for epic spellcasting combined with epic leadership to have all of your minions sacrifice spells to help you cast your epic spells.

And when they say 'caster' that includes clerics and druids.
Wolfwood2
12-13-05, 01:47 PM If youre going CoD, I'd say ECL 25. If you cast spells AT ALL, epic spellcasting is just too powerful to ignore.

Okay.

So now I'm thinking doing a Druid 24/Monk 1 with Vow of Poverty. Have to be neutral good, but I'll just say he, er, changed alignments during his progression. Yeah, that's the ticket. I like VoP because it's so hard to use items while Wildshaping. Sure you've got your "Wild" armor, but the stat and save-boosting items don't come so easy.

That would net me three Epic feats.

I suppose one of them can be Epic Spellcasting, but the development costs seem so brutal. (Not to mention incompatible with VoP.)

I suppose this is an "ask the DM" issue.
Dread Khan
12-13-05, 01:47 PM Not a very hard question... gestalt isn't worth that much LA IMO, certainly not 7 points.
Slyver
12-13-05, 02:33 PM It depends on how long the campaign is going to last. If it will last for a while gestault is probaly better in the long run. You will gain exp hand over fist compared to the rest of the group (assuming they go for the ecl). if it wont last that long, there is zero question about what to pick, 25 ecl. Maybe if the choice was 21 gestault or 25 ecl it would present an option worth taking. Whoever decided on 17 vs 25 was trippin.

That being said, since druid is an option and BoED is encouraged, I recommend monk 1 (or 2) Saint template (+2), Druid 22 (or 21). If the LA can be bought off definitely go for the saint template and start at 24 (starting 25th level exp - saint template buy off). Saint is awesome for this build.

Slyver
Wolfwood2
12-13-05, 04:17 PM It depends on how long the campaign is going to last. If it will last for a while gestault is probaly better in the long run. You will gain exp hand over fist compared to the rest of the group (assuming they go for the ecl). if it wont last that long, there is zero question about what to pick, 25 ecl. Maybe if the choice was 21 gestault or 25 ecl it would present an option worth taking. Whoever decided on 17 vs 25 was trippin.

That being said, since druid is an option and BoED is encouraged, I recommend monk 1 (or 2) Saint template (+2), Druid 22 (or 21). If the LA can be bought off definitely go for the saint template and start at 24 (starting 25th level exp - saint template buy off). Saint is awesome for this build.

This looks to be a "single mission" game. I would not except to see much, if any, level gain. I will definitely check out the Saint template, though. Thanks for the advice.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Wolfwood2 12-13-05, 12:42 PM	Hey, Game has been advertised where the characters are going to Save the World (tm) from a Demon Lord. The choices are to either make a 17th level gestalt character or make any non-gestalt character of ECL 25. Opinions, please. Which choice delivers more mind-blowingly awesome power and why?
Prominence 12-13-05, 12:47 PM	Go for the ECL 25, because while a 17th level gestalt is strong, a 25th level caster with epic spells is stronger.
P33KAJ3W 12-13-05, 12:50 PM	Go for the ECL 25, because while a 17th level gestalt is strong, a 25th level caster with epic spells is stronger. Ditto - I would sugjest Wiz 5/Incantrix 10/any PRC 5/Epic Incantrix 5
tsuyoshikentsu 12-13-05, 12:53 PM	The answer is: Depends. What do you want to be, and what books are available? Do LAs and monster HDs count on one or both sides, and if one, are they a base class? What's the rest of the party going with, or do you know? What are your stats? Generally speaking, I'd recommend 25 f you're a caster, and Gestalt if you're a combat class.
Wolfwood2 12-13-05, 01:04 PM	The answer is: Depends. What do you want to be, and what books are available? I was thinking about some sort of divine spellcasting type. I like druids, but maybe a paladin or cleric might be more effective. I don't know. Usage of the Book of Exalted Deeds is apparently encouraged. As for other books, I can probably lay my hands on the "Races" or "Complete" or Eberron books, but I don't have ready access to Forgotten Realms stuff. Do LAs and monster HDs count on one or both sides, and if one, are they a base class? Unclear. Probably the DM hasn't thought about it and it would be a "make me a proposal and make it make sense" thing. What's the rest of the party going with, or do you know? Posting just went up calling for concepts. Good is required, so no evil stuff. What are your stats? Thirty point buy, with usual increases for level. Generally speaking, I'd recommend 25 f you're a caster, and Gestalt if you're a combat class. What about for a druid or a cleric, who can end up being both?
tsuyoshikentsu 12-13-05, 01:38 PM	If youre going CoD, I'd say ECL 25. If you cast spells AT ALL, epic spellcasting is just too powerful to ignore.
Aramas 12-13-05, 01:43 PM	Definitely go with a 25th level character IIRC UA sets the LA for Gestalt at +2, so you are much better off with a ECL 25 character. Even if you are a melee, Epic feats are way powerful. And for a caster, nothing beats epic spellcasting. Except for epic spellcasting combined with epic leadership to have all of your minions sacrifice spells to help you cast your epic spells. And when they say 'caster' that includes clerics and druids.
Wolfwood2 12-13-05, 01:47 PM	If youre going CoD, I'd say ECL 25. If you cast spells AT ALL, epic spellcasting is just too powerful to ignore. Okay. So now I'm thinking doing a Druid 24/Monk 1 with Vow of Poverty. Have to be neutral good, but I'll just say he, er, changed alignments during his progression. Yeah, that's the ticket. I like VoP because it's so hard to use items while Wildshaping. Sure you've got your "Wild" armor, but the stat and save-boosting items don't come so easy. That would net me three Epic feats. I suppose one of them can be Epic Spellcasting, but the development costs seem so brutal. (Not to mention incompatible with VoP.) I suppose this is an "ask the DM" issue.
Dread Khan 12-13-05, 01:47 PM	Not a very hard question... gestalt isn't worth that much LA IMO, certainly not 7 points.
Slyver 12-13-05, 02:33 PM	It depends on how long the campaign is going to last. If it will last for a while gestault is probaly better in the long run. You will gain exp hand over fist compared to the rest of the group (assuming they go for the ecl). if it wont last that long, there is zero question about what to pick, 25 ecl. Maybe if the choice was 21 gestault or 25 ecl it would present an option worth taking. Whoever decided on 17 vs 25 was trippin. That being said, since druid is an option and BoED is encouraged, I recommend monk 1 (or 2) Saint template (+2), Druid 22 (or 21). If the LA can be bought off definitely go for the saint template and start at 24 (starting 25th level exp - saint template buy off). Saint is awesome for this build. Slyver
Wolfwood2 12-13-05, 04:17 PM	It depends on how long the campaign is going to last. If it will last for a while gestault is probaly better in the long run. You will gain exp hand over fist compared to the rest of the group (assuming they go for the ecl). if it wont last that long, there is zero question about what to pick, 25 ecl. Maybe if the choice was 21 gestault or 25 ecl it would present an option worth taking. Whoever decided on 17 vs 25 was trippin. That being said, since druid is an option and BoED is encouraged, I recommend monk 1 (or 2) Saint template (+2), Druid 22 (or 21). If the LA can be bought off definitely go for the saint template and start at 24 (starting 25th level exp - saint template buy off). Saint is awesome for this build. This looks to be a "single mission" game. I would not except to see much, if any, level gain. I will definitely check out the Saint template, though. Thanks for the advice.