18th Level Tune-Up!!!! [Archive] - Wizards Community

18th Level Tune-Up!!!! [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
AngellicArcon
12-20-05, 09:56 PM Greetings all!

I'm looking for creative ways to tune up this charecter. I developed him for a Forgotten Realms "Horror" based game using the taint rules. Stats were from a 32 pt build.

Anyways, lvl 18 is the requirement, any suggestions would be much appreciated.

Delacon Vordann (Experience: 154.090)
Male Human Archivist Lvl 18
NG Human (Corruption 0, Depravity 0)
Init: +4; Senses: Listen +7, Spot +6
Languages: Abyssal, Celestial, Common, Draconic, Dwarven, Elven, Giant, Goblin, Infernal, Sylvan, Undercommon
------------------------------------------------------------
AC: 21, touch: 17, flat-footed: 17

Fort +16 Ref +11 Will +22
------------------------------------------------------------
Speed 30 ft. (6 squares)
Melee: Fist of Oghma (Alchemical Silver Heavy Mace +1 Ghost Touched +1, Merciful +1, Holy +2, Bane (Undead +1) +10/+5 (1d6+1/1d8+1 x2) or +11/+9 (1d6/1d8+2+2d6) against Undead.
Base Atk +9 Grp +9
Special Actions: Spellcasting, Dark Knowledge (9/day); Tactics, Puissance, Foe, Dread Secret, Forknowledge.

Combat Gear: Cloak of Resistance +5, Ring of Protection +5, Ring of Feather Fall. +1 Mithril Breastplate: Resist all; Ghost Touch
Cleric Spells Prepared (From Prayerbook) (CL 18th)
9th - Mass Heal (x2) Implosion (DC 29)
8th - Shield of Law, Holy Aura, Planar Ally (greater), Summon Monster VIII
7th - Summon Monster VII, Greater Harm, Regenerate, Greater Restoration (x2)
6th - Word of Recall, Blade Barrier, Greater Dispel Magic, Heal (x2)
5th - Mark of Justice (DC 25), True Seeing, Raise Dead (x2),
Spell Resistance (+30)
4th - Cure Critical (x2), Neutralize Poison, Sending
3rd - Cure Serious Wounds (x2), Resist Taint, Searing Light (DC 23), Dispel Magic, Create Food/Water
2nd - Gentle Repose, Resist Energy, Cure Moderate Wounds (x2), Remove Paralysis, Bulls Strength
1st - Endure Elements, Entropic Shield (x2), Sanctuary, Cure Light Wounds.
0th - Create Water, Detect Poison, Read Magic, Mending
------------------------------------------------------------
Abilities: Str 10 Dex 10 Con 10 Int 30 Wis 23 Cha 10

Feats: Draconic Archivist, Font of Life, Master of Knowledge (+1 int based skill checks), Pure Soul (Immune to Taint), Combat Casting, Brew Potion, Improved Initiative (+4)

Skills Concentration +15, Craft (Alchemy) +17, Craft (Bookmaking) +15, Decipher Script +31, Diplomacy +10, Knowledge (arcane) +26, Knowledge (architecture and engineering) +19, Knowledge (dungeoneering) +19, Knowledge (history) +26, Knowledge (nature) +11, Knowledge (nobility and royalty) +21, Knowledge (psionics) +11, Knowledge (religion) +28, Knowledge (the planes) +23, Knowledge (Dungeoneering) +19, Profession (Scribe) +9, Ride +1, Search +18, Sense Motive +6, Speak Language (factored), Spellcraft +26, Spot +6, Survival +6,
Additional Magical Possessions: Tome of Clear Thought +3, Headband of Int +6, Periapt of Wisdom +6, Bag of Holding (type 2) (Backpack form), Potions: Hide from Undead, Cure Light Wounds (x3), Endure Elements (x2), Dark Vision, Daylight, Gaseous Form, Neutralize Poison (x2), Water Breathing, Cure Moderate Wounds (x3), Spider Climb
Assorted Scrolls: (list to follow) (Kept in Bag of Holding)
PhoenixInferno
12-21-05, 02:37 AM Brew Potion and Combat Casting? Er...I think I'll pass on those. With the release of Spell Compendium, you can now dig through and find the lowest level at which various divine spells can be cast for Archivist purposes.

I don't have Heroes of Horror, but I do know that Sacred Exorcist might go well with your character theme - it will also provide Turn Undead for access to Divine feats.
AngellicArcon
12-24-05, 02:59 AM Thanks for the info and tips :)
NineInchNall
12-24-05, 12:39 PM Oh, and you can abuse the whole domain spell thingy. Domain spells being divine versions of arcane ones and all that.
Slyver
12-24-05, 04:14 PM Please don't take offense at this, it is not intended as personal, but that is one of the weakest 18th level spellcasters I have ever seen. The archivists strength, hell, its only strength of note over a cleric is the potential to cast every divine spell at its lowest possible spell level. Thats it, everything else is gravy. Clerics automatically get to add domains to their spells known. Additionally they can pick up quite a few extra domains along the way adding nine more very nice spells to their spell list which they automatically know each time. They also have numerous other advantages over the archivist. Without those extra spells known and spells at decreased spell level in your spellbook you might as well play a cleric and be twice (or more) times more powerful.

So... How do we solve this. Unlike a cleric you are forced to rely on your DM to give you power, much like a wizard only the game is designed to give the wizard the necessary power. If he can't find, buy, kill for or steal a epell, he simply needs to research it. The RAW does not provide that for an archvist. It also does not prohibit it either, it appears to be more of an oversight. You absolutely must, must, must get your DM to provide you with the spells you need to make your class viable.

You should, by 18th level, have knowledge of EVERY spell on the regular cleric spell list at the LOWEST level it appears on any divine spell list. You finding out what level that is could represent the character doing the research in the same manner, I mean, thats what they do. In addition you should also have knowledge of every single spell in any domain you may have aquired along the way (not just on your spell list as the RAW, but KNOWLEDGE, i.e. in your spellbook). You also should have a minimum of 2 spells/spell level of any divine spell anywhere of your choice. This is just for starters. I guarantee if I were playing an archivist I would have at least this much or I would not be playing an archivist.

I reiterate, the mechanics of gameplay are simply not designed to play to the one and only strength of the archvist. I mean, how many divine scrolls of shapechange have ANY of you found in your rp career. And yet, as a cleric, druid, healer, cloistered cleric, or favored soul I could get it as easy as pie, yet this class, who by description should have it easier than any other, has the hardest time with it in real roleplaying situations. Your DM MUST be lenient or you should play a cleric (or cloistered cleric for more archivist feel).

With DM help for the above situation there are of course several ways to build an archivist. I would go for the skill monkey approach I think as it synergizes so well with the class. Personally, I think level 11 is the optimal cutoff point for a mostly archivist character. That no save stun can be handy, the bonus feat at 10 is nice, everything after that is, meh. Take a prestige class

Here is a possible build, substantially more versatile than archivist 18:
(Seeker of Misty Ilse as per the adaptation rules to take away the diety restriction and/or race, while not necessary, has better flavor for an archivist) Remember, SotMI gets full caster progression, despite the chart.

Race: Human (or grey elf)

Feat Rogue 1/Archivist 4/Seeker of the Misty Ilse 1/Archivist 7/SofMI 7

Feats
1 able learner, nymphs kiss, greenbound summoning
3 research
6 craft woundrous item
9 open
12 Craft contingent spell, open (archvist bonus feat)
15 open
18 open

Draconic Archivist, Font of Life, Pure Soul (Immune to Taint) I have not seen (I don't have heroes of horror yet). I assume Draconic archivist gives the ability to use the archvist knowledge specials against dragons. That seems to be a useful feat. The others I am not so sure about, but I will take your word for it.

As for brew potion, and combat casting, umm, yuck; very substandard feats. Master of knowledge is pretty much a waste of a feat also, athough not as useless as the rest. For an archivist It is the same as weapon focus for a warrior. if you have to take it for a prestige class it is ok, if not, I can think of 20 more useful feats.

Some possible feats are item creation feats, such as the artisan feats from ECS if you want to make a lot of magic items/contingent spells, more archivist feats, metamagic feats such as quicken or sudden maximize, etc.

Stats
str 10
dex 14
con 14
int 16
wis 14
cha 10

Do not, under any circumstances except high point buy go for over 16 in a stat. Is it really worth it to have -2 ac and -36 hps for one extra bonus spell and 1 more point of int? Don't worry so much about wisdom, that one extra bonus spell just isnt worth it. Get a +6 item for 20 wis, that really is plenty. Pick up a tome when your rich.

I know I kinda went off there, but you are on the CO board, which means you want help optmizing your character. No matter what build you go with, I can't stress enough the need to have knowledge of all those other spells to be effective, or really, give up on the archivist.

Slyver
PhoenixInferno
12-24-05, 05:21 PM If you have Races of the Wild, check out Ruathar - minimal requirements so you might as well try it.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
AngellicArcon 12-20-05, 09:56 PM	Greetings all! I'm looking for creative ways to tune up this charecter. I developed him for a Forgotten Realms "Horror" based game using the taint rules. Stats were from a 32 pt build. Anyways, lvl 18 is the requirement, any suggestions would be much appreciated. Delacon Vordann (Experience: 154.090) Male Human Archivist Lvl 18 NG Human (Corruption 0, Depravity 0) Init: +4; Senses: Listen +7, Spot +6 Languages: Abyssal, Celestial, Common, Draconic, Dwarven, Elven, Giant, Goblin, Infernal, Sylvan, Undercommon ------------------------------------------------------------ AC: 21, touch: 17, flat-footed: 17 Fort +16 Ref +11 Will +22 ------------------------------------------------------------ Speed 30 ft. (6 squares) Melee: Fist of Oghma (Alchemical Silver Heavy Mace +1 Ghost Touched +1, Merciful +1, Holy +2, Bane (Undead +1) +10/+5 (1d6+1/1d8+1 x2) or +11/+9 (1d6/1d8+2+2d6) against Undead. Base Atk +9 Grp +9 Special Actions: Spellcasting, Dark Knowledge (9/day); Tactics, Puissance, Foe, Dread Secret, Forknowledge. Combat Gear: Cloak of Resistance +5, Ring of Protection +5, Ring of Feather Fall. +1 Mithril Breastplate: Resist all; Ghost Touch Cleric Spells Prepared (From Prayerbook) (CL 18th) 9th - Mass Heal (x2) Implosion (DC 29) 8th - Shield of Law, Holy Aura, Planar Ally (greater), Summon Monster VIII 7th - Summon Monster VII, Greater Harm, Regenerate, Greater Restoration (x2) 6th - Word of Recall, Blade Barrier, Greater Dispel Magic, Heal (x2) 5th - Mark of Justice (DC 25), True Seeing, Raise Dead (x2), Spell Resistance (+30) 4th - Cure Critical (x2), Neutralize Poison, Sending 3rd - Cure Serious Wounds (x2), Resist Taint, Searing Light (DC 23), Dispel Magic, Create Food/Water 2nd - Gentle Repose, Resist Energy, Cure Moderate Wounds (x2), Remove Paralysis, Bulls Strength 1st - Endure Elements, Entropic Shield (x2), Sanctuary, Cure Light Wounds. 0th - Create Water, Detect Poison, Read Magic, Mending ------------------------------------------------------------ Abilities: Str 10 Dex 10 Con 10 Int 30 Wis 23 Cha 10 Feats: Draconic Archivist, Font of Life, Master of Knowledge (+1 int based skill checks), Pure Soul (Immune to Taint), Combat Casting, Brew Potion, Improved Initiative (+4) Skills Concentration +15, Craft (Alchemy) +17, Craft (Bookmaking) +15, Decipher Script +31, Diplomacy +10, Knowledge (arcane) +26, Knowledge (architecture and engineering) +19, Knowledge (dungeoneering) +19, Knowledge (history) +26, Knowledge (nature) +11, Knowledge (nobility and royalty) +21, Knowledge (psionics) +11, Knowledge (religion) +28, Knowledge (the planes) +23, Knowledge (Dungeoneering) +19, Profession (Scribe) +9, Ride +1, Search +18, Sense Motive +6, Speak Language (factored), Spellcraft +26, Spot +6, Survival +6, Additional Magical Possessions: Tome of Clear Thought +3, Headband of Int +6, Periapt of Wisdom +6, Bag of Holding (type 2) (Backpack form), Potions: Hide from Undead, Cure Light Wounds (x3), Endure Elements (x2), Dark Vision, Daylight, Gaseous Form, Neutralize Poison (x2), Water Breathing, Cure Moderate Wounds (x3), Spider Climb Assorted Scrolls: (list to follow) (Kept in Bag of Holding)
PhoenixInferno 12-21-05, 02:37 AM	Brew Potion and Combat Casting? Er...I think I'll pass on those. With the release of Spell Compendium, you can now dig through and find the lowest level at which various divine spells can be cast for Archivist purposes. I don't have Heroes of Horror, but I do know that Sacred Exorcist might go well with your character theme - it will also provide Turn Undead for access to Divine feats.
AngellicArcon 12-24-05, 02:59 AM	Thanks for the info and tips :)
NineInchNall 12-24-05, 12:39 PM	Oh, and you can abuse the whole domain spell thingy. Domain spells being divine versions of arcane ones and all that.
Slyver 12-24-05, 04:14 PM	Please don't take offense at this, it is not intended as personal, but that is one of the weakest 18th level spellcasters I have ever seen. The archivists strength, hell, its only strength of note over a cleric is the potential to cast every divine spell at its lowest possible spell level. Thats it, everything else is gravy. Clerics automatically get to add domains to their spells known. Additionally they can pick up quite a few extra domains along the way adding nine more very nice spells to their spell list which they automatically know each time. They also have numerous other advantages over the archivist. Without those extra spells known and spells at decreased spell level in your spellbook you might as well play a cleric and be twice (or more) times more powerful. So... How do we solve this. Unlike a cleric you are forced to rely on your DM to give you power, much like a wizard only the game is designed to give the wizard the necessary power. If he can't find, buy, kill for or steal a epell, he simply needs to research it. The RAW does not provide that for an archvist. It also does not prohibit it either, it appears to be more of an oversight. You absolutely must, must, must get your DM to provide you with the spells you need to make your class viable. You should, by 18th level, have knowledge of EVERY spell on the regular cleric spell list at the LOWEST level it appears on any divine spell list. You finding out what level that is could represent the character doing the research in the same manner, I mean, thats what they do. In addition you should also have knowledge of every single spell in any domain you may have aquired along the way (not just on your spell list as the RAW, but KNOWLEDGE, i.e. in your spellbook). You also should have a minimum of 2 spells/spell level of any divine spell anywhere of your choice. This is just for starters. I guarantee if I were playing an archivist I would have at least this much or I would not be playing an archivist. I reiterate, the mechanics of gameplay are simply not designed to play to the one and only strength of the archvist. I mean, how many divine scrolls of shapechange have ANY of you found in your rp career. And yet, as a cleric, druid, healer, cloistered cleric, or favored soul I could get it as easy as pie, yet this class, who by description should have it easier than any other, has the hardest time with it in real roleplaying situations. Your DM MUST be lenient or you should play a cleric (or cloistered cleric for more archivist feel). With DM help for the above situation there are of course several ways to build an archivist. I would go for the skill monkey approach I think as it synergizes so well with the class. Personally, I think level 11 is the optimal cutoff point for a mostly archivist character. That no save stun can be handy, the bonus feat at 10 is nice, everything after that is, meh. Take a prestige class Here is a possible build, substantially more versatile than archivist 18: (Seeker of Misty Ilse as per the adaptation rules to take away the diety restriction and/or race, while not necessary, has better flavor for an archivist) Remember, SotMI gets full caster progression, despite the chart. Race: Human (or grey elf) Feat Rogue 1/Archivist 4/Seeker of the Misty Ilse 1/Archivist 7/SofMI 7 Feats 1 able learner, nymphs kiss, greenbound summoning 3 research 6 craft woundrous item 9 open 12 Craft contingent spell, open (archvist bonus feat) 15 open 18 open Draconic Archivist, Font of Life, Pure Soul (Immune to Taint) I have not seen (I don't have heroes of horror yet). I assume Draconic archivist gives the ability to use the archvist knowledge specials against dragons. That seems to be a useful feat. The others I am not so sure about, but I will take your word for it. As for brew potion, and combat casting, umm, yuck; very substandard feats. Master of knowledge is pretty much a waste of a feat also, athough not as useless as the rest. For an archivist It is the same as weapon focus for a warrior. if you have to take it for a prestige class it is ok, if not, I can think of 20 more useful feats. Some possible feats are item creation feats, such as the artisan feats from ECS if you want to make a lot of magic items/contingent spells, more archivist feats, metamagic feats such as quicken or sudden maximize, etc. Stats str 10 dex 14 con 14 int 16 wis 14 cha 10 Do not, under any circumstances except high point buy go for over 16 in a stat. Is it really worth it to have -2 ac and -36 hps for one extra bonus spell and 1 more point of int? Don't worry so much about wisdom, that one extra bonus spell just isnt worth it. Get a +6 item for 20 wis, that really is plenty. Pick up a tome when your rich. I know I kinda went off there, but you are on the CO board, which means you want help optmizing your character. No matter what build you go with, I can't stress enough the need to have knowledge of all those other spells to be effective, or really, give up on the archivist. Slyver
PhoenixInferno 12-24-05, 05:21 PM	If you have Races of the Wild, check out Ruathar - minimal requirements so you might as well try it.